Environmentalist vs Tory and Labour MPs | LBC Cross Question Brexit debate
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2023
- Ali Miraj hosts a Brexit debate with environmental journalist George Monbiot, Tory MP Aaron Bell, Labour MP Dame Diane Johnson and former Conservative Party official Sarah Southern.
Listener Nicola asked the panel: ‘Will we ever replace what we lost by leaving the EU?’
"Ridiculous, time-wasting, life-wasting policies imposed upon us."
"I don't think my constituents got it wrong."
"You said by 2022 you would have a trade deal."
Listen to the full show on Global Player: l-bc.co/ListenNow
#alimiraj #brexit #LBC
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George Monbiot....a voice of reason in an asylum.
Monbiot*
I agree man of reason George Mondibot!
@@kieranoconnor4334 sorry spelling mistake
George Monbiot absolutely won that entire debate. His finishing line at the end was an absolute killer. It's a breath of fresh air to finally see someone point out the absolute absurdity of these Brexiteer politicians claiming that they're sticking with Brexshit because it's what the public wanted in the past, whilst refusing to acknowledge that the public are now overwhelmingly against Brexshit and think it was a mistake. The Brexiteers are now working AGAINST the so-called "will of the people".
💯 %👍 👍 👍, well said 💯
Why do the anti British remoaners not move to their beloved E.U. and let us get in with ruling our own country
Personally I would love to see a second contest between Bojer & Jeremy. I don’t think that the British would buy all that anti-Semitic BS again, if they were given another opportunity.
Delusional. Try leaving your LBC echo chamber
@@beerblues762 we didn't see a debate the first time round. Bojo spent all his time in prorogatory avoiding pre election scrutiny.
This isn't a debate. One side is telling the truth, one side is lying.
That would be George then
...where do you stand...?😊
@@youtubeyoutube936yes. George is telling the truth .
The trans debate summed up perfectly - thanks mate.
@@youtubeyoutube936 yeah right
Well said, George. The only person speaking sense on this panel
Putting George there amongst MPs is like putting a professor amongst nursery children, painful to watch
Well said George Monbiot. Its not a friction free trade deal. The Australian deal is a mess can you imagine how devastating a trade deal with rhe US would be.
The US would be well aware of the AU/UK/TA.They know how tough Australia can be in trade negotiations
....enlighten us all then....and there is nothing to be ashamed about for being a middle-class Labour supporter btw...😊
@@ausbrum l The UK does not negotiate . It asks if if can sell more cheese and signs where told to.
Uk WILL NOT get a trade deal till it sorts out Northern Ireland and until they can be trusted to actually stick to a deal
@@johnrussell3961 😂
Well done to LBC for inviting George Monbiot onto the programme. The fact that this brilliant man doesn't regularly appear on the BBC tells its own story. You can see the desperation in Tory MP Aaron Bell's face as he knows Monbiot can see through and easily dismantle his babbling nonsense.
Are there any intelligent Tory MP's?
Yep. They know exactly what they're doing. They just lie as easy as the rest of us breathe.
Not anymore!
Intelligent Tories? They all got thrown out in September 2019 by Boris.
Thrown out
They have the intelligence of the rapaciously greedy and morally bankrupt. Unfortunately they float to the top in the current system with those traits.
So glad that whoever put this together gave George the last word.
Well said George!
George summed that up perfectly with his closing point.
The only one taking sense, George Mondibot
....so you aren't....and you missed an "l" out too....not your finest moment.....
@@chatham43 Your criticisms will be taken seriously when you learn how to use ellipses.
George was the only one telling the truth
Tory Defence of Brexit , Truly Pathetic .
Indeed. i suppose the only explanation of it is that this is a Red Wall tory, whose very existence in Paliament is based on the extraoridnary one-issue nature of the 2019 election: he was elected to get brexit "done." It´s not possible for him to admit, like even Farage has, that brexit has failed, because to do so would remove his very reason for being an MP.
Why don't we want to Rehash what was said in 2016? We need to so we can understand exactly the promises and lies we were told and by whom.
Thatcher " there is no such thing as society" and neoliberalism has made that a reality.
British people voted for Brexit by a majority of 2% which, for a decision which will affect us for life, was totally wrong to push through
.....especially given the 2% majority result arose due to a pack of lies from corrupt Tory politicians !!
Brexit was voted through by 37.4% of the voting population, just over a third of the population making a decision for the rest of us. If you look at that as a cold light of day examination of the voting public, that means 62.6% were happy or not bothered by the current situation, this is always what is missing from the Brexit debate.
I don't think you know how democracy works.
Major constitutional change by simple majority in one advisory referendum (during which the campaign lied) is not democracy
@@palerider955 You mean when 50.1% of eligible voters make a democratic decision that affects the 100% of people?
Clearly you don't understand how true democracy works.
The final word by George hits the nail on the head. A majority of people would now vote to remain
....who can be bothered to vote you mean...😊
@@chatham43 no, that's not what I mean. countless interviews of people who voted for Brexit saying that if they could go back they either not vote or vote remain
No they wouldn't.
@@palerider955 you’re in denial. The country was lied to and thousands are on record so imagine how many aren’t on record. Brexit would fail on a second vote
"A" majority is grammatically impossible. Like saying "An" Atlantic Ocean. There's only one.
If Tory Boy is so sure he represents the people, why not have an election and prove it?
spot on, they are going to squeeze every drop of tax payers money and looking to feather their own nests before we go to a GE
Oh shut up
We will it's every 4 years
@Ben bear and that 4 years is almost up. Legally they can go to 5 years, but historically only desperate governments who know they are going to lose run the clock to five years
Looks like this government is desperate, and know they are going to lose!
@@markwelch3564 yup probably then we can watch labour sell the country straight down the river . Look forward to digital ID digital currency WHO mandates and no borders let's see how the middle class labour voters enjoy that
"That doesn't make any sense at all"......I guess that would make a wonderful slogan for the tory-party in future elections......
George's last sentence was the most important one of all.
He slammed the last nail into the Brexit coffin. Can we now call this the post Brexit era when you try to fix what we can? There is no likelihood that we will fix it back to where we were. At least I don't see why the EU would bother to.
Well done George!
Well done George Monbiot as he continues to call out all the shady politicians.
George Monbiot is a hero of mine! ❤❤❤❤❤
hearing the blame being put on Remainers in Labour and elsewhere is pathetic. The vast majority of leavers did not specifically vote to leave the single market or customs union, they voted to leave the EU having been told there would be no great changes past a reduction in Immigration. The damage done by the Brexit ideologues has been catastrophic and they love to blame everyone else, but refuse to see the failings of the ideological choice to rip out everything 'European'. They still won't acknowledge which Continent we live in, let alone that we ARE European...
Why don’t we want to rehash what was promised in 2016? Why sweep it under the carpet and pretend the only direction is to continue down this ludicrous path?
Brexit is done, the UK left the EU. There's only one way back: meeting all of the Copenhagen Criteria before applying, and being voted in by all 27 EU members. Very unlikely for years to come. And non of the UK's political parties seem to want to go back, or has the courage to admit it. So the UK wants better trade deals, said Starmer. But it has nothing much to offer the EU, not much leverage at all. The current agreements work fine for the EU. There's only one thing of value the UK has to offer to the EU: *political change* . Ditch the archaic system that got you into this mess: PR instead of FPTP, do something about those 800 unelected MP's, create a written constitution and become *a stable democracy that's trustworthy and honors its' agreements* . Fix that. And then there'll be room for a conversation.
You had me at political change.
I would vote for any party that starts the process og getting UK back into EU.
They don't want us to back! Why should they.
I'm still furious about slogans like "project fear". Lets not move on, stay angry and make the fools show accountability.
....well it was project fear....we haven't self combusted and been devastated by a plague of locusts.....😊
Absolutely. They should work in marketing, not government.
@@chatham43 you think you are right because it's not as bad as we said it would be .
But don't acknowledge that everything you promised has not happened.
I would say you lost that argument.
You can't say see we were right it's not as bad as you said while ignoring the mess it has caused and the economic damage is only going to get worse!!!
@@chatham43 I don't remember "plague of locusts" being one of the potential consequences of Brexit, however you leavers are known to make stuff up.
@@markargent4962 Nu-uh! Only three out of four negative predictions have come to pass, which means the whole thing was fake news! /s
George is right, sadly. This country's leadership works assiduously on behalf of their people. Unfortunately, their people are not us. Brexit made a lot of money for some, as did the pandemic - and the citizenry paid, as they did after the banking crisis. Many - understandably, perhaps - fell for the heavy, mass marketing campaign by those who were well-placed to gain the most, assisted by a woefully inadequate media, whilst others didn't bother to vote, assuming it couldn't possibly happen here. Don't even get me started on the so-called trade deals struck recently - we are a laughing stock, globally, though we do have a f-ton more billionaires than we did 5 years ago. Well done, eh?
Sarah is filled with regret but she can't 100% say it out loud that leaving the European Union has damaged this country
......and you can 100% define a woman...hilarious...😊
@@chatham43
Another pathetic straw man argument that nobody cares about .
@@chatham43 Mmmmm..... 50p Tequila
@@chatham43 What's your obsession with the definition of a woman?
that people still vote for the torries is so funny to me.
...vote for Keir and it will get even funnier...😊
@@chatham43
You got nothing have you .
That line won't work with Starmer
He not Corbyn.
It’s not funny; it’s tragic!
@@markargent4962 If only we'd gotten Corbyn we'd have no cost of living crisis today, more socail housing, and a fully funded NHS.... Between the publics view on Brexit and on Corbyn its become very clear how easily controlled by the 0.1% the electorate has become.
Brexit believers - just believe in it and it will work. Sold unicorns and wondering why unicorns can't be delivered.
George Minbiot is brilliant. Labour simply can't challenge Brexit at the moment because of our pro Tory FPTP voting system. We need PR! The EU won't consider our rejoining until we have a super majority and the Tories have learned their lesson and returned to being a pro Europe party.
Except when labour won! You and remainers seem unable to appreciate the difference between wanting to chart your own course and whether this is necessarily the best economic outcome. Maybe the remain parliament should have agreed on one of the deals rather than voting against them in order to reverse the vote. Still with such 5th columnists it’s no wonder the eu, supposedly representing me, did everything to stitch you up
@@youtubeyoutube936 l when Labour won no one was taking about leaving the EU.
Cameron won with just 38% and forced a referendum most didn’t want on the other 62%.
@@johnrussell3961 the people clearly wanted a referendum as it attracted a record turnout and the people said leave. You lost so get over it.
I doubt France and Germany would want us back. Why are we better off in Schengen and the Euro with no rebate?
@@chrisj9700 maybe you need to acknowledge that most people have now seen through the referendum lies and would rather we were in the EU?
@@chrisj9700 Wait, you had 7 years to learn what the benefits of being in the EU are (nevermind you fictional Schengen and Euro), and you either haven't learned, understood or just ignored a single thing? How do you lay straight in bed at night?
That final sentence is exactly where we are.
Why do people think an American trade deal is some sort of benefit? I mean I know some people will benefit from it but what do average people actually think they'll gain from America?
.....or the EU....totally agree....
Lots of money for your economy.
@@chatham43 name.1.benifit.
That's helping everyone
@@terryfinnie2146 You get America wants more out of trade deals than it puts in and the UK isn't exactly negotiating out of a position of strength right?
I believe they just assume that a deal with the US must be worth a lot of money to us because the US is so rich. And getting something the EU doesn’t have appeals to their pride. They seem unable to comprehend the notion that the US’s power means they can get whatever they want for not a lot in return.
George is the only one talking sense . I’m not ready to move on on Brexit , I’m a labour member and unhappy with their stance. They cannot rely on my continued support .
Title is confusing. Aren't Labour MPs all Tories now? So shouldn't it read Labour Tory and Conservative TORY MPS?
....just about sums things up now....a few home truths wouldn't go amiss here in the echochamber...😊
Something about drowning men and straws springs to mind.........
@@chatham43 If that were true you'd be fine with a Labour government.
The reason people voted to leave, was because the Tories lied and lied and lied again.
While being funded by vulture capitalists who knew it was an act of self-harm, most of whom were external to the UK and illegally secretive about their investment in our self-harm.
Really? You seem to think you know it all, maybe you should run for office.
@@palerider955 well we all knew more than you . And you still won't acknowledge the obvious when its starring you in the face . Your egos are way to big to admit you were wrong. Sad little boy who couldn't grow up and still believes in unicorns.
@@palerider955He’s right, don’t be silly. The tories have ruined this country
George monbiot speaking truth ( as he so often does)
If the people have the knowledge to make a decision like Bexit why on earth do we need politicians at all?
The Labour and Tory 'ideas' are stuck in an economic vision dragged kicking and screaming from the last century. Its all over.
The two parties. indeed UK society in general, have yet to get to grips with what is to come, in terms of new tech or environmental degradation and eco conflicts.
George was the only guest on the panel who spoke with any clarity, and said what needed to be said. He's not just an Environmentalist, bur an economist aswell. He could see that there would be carnage ahead. None of the other panellists could.
Labour continue to 'dance in the shadows' when it comes to talking about Brexit; because at the heart of it all, they too were in favour of Brexit.
The two biggest political parties in the UK were both in favour of Brexit. This is largely why we are where we are today. One party achieved what they wanted, and burnt all their (European) bridges as soon as they got what they wanted; while the other party stood on from the sidelines cheering them on.
That is essentially the story of Labour from 2016 up to now. They cannot get away from this fact. They were complicit in all this, despite not being in power. That's an achievement that is best not dwelled upon for too long. But it's the case.
once the tories got the working class voting against its interests it was over
Brexit should have only gone through with 2/3rds of the majority of people voting for it.
52-48 is too close too divisive.
You only say that because you didn't get what you wanted, had we remained your opinion would be different, grow up.
@@palerider955
I have no requirement in what happens ,only looking for a more or fairer understanding.
On the assumption I need to grow up , how is it that more evolved societys use two thirds as a more functional measure in their political systems.
@@palerider955 I don't think anybody who voted on either side got what they wanted...
When you do something for the wrong reasons, it will almost always fail. The bottom line is, Brexit was strongly based on racism and anti-foreigner feelings. Those were wrong reasons for implementing it.
Absolutely spot on that is exactly what I heard from the leave voters I knew.
Don't forget the Russian money
It’s nice to see that America is not only place dealing with this garbage
Not for us
Nice?
Worrying, isn't it when Trump is seen as a `reasonable voice` whilst being madder than a bucket of frogs.
@@kat2023. Somehow american and non Brits recommended this when searching brexit
@@kat2023. I would assume the intent was not to say that the situation was nice, but that people were working to rectify it, or at least get started.
George is one of the very few honest voices
He is a four-eyed globalist snake
Why? Because he agrees with you?
@@palerider955 learn to read, then learn to comprehend .
Well said George! 👏👏
Aaron Bell(end) can certainly look forward to the evermore likely prospect of losing his seat at the next GE.
...saw what you did there with your clever wordplay...your schoolmates must be so proud....😊
@@chatham43 your attempts at 'sarcasm' have certainly disproven Oscar Wilde in demonstrating neither wit nor intelligence.
@@chatham43 Trolling YT because your Brexit is on life support.
But it was on that the day of the Referendum .
Tic Tok
Brexiteer
Well said George 💯 %👍 👍
Well done GM. Politicians talking gibberish ad infinitum.
It would be interesting to see an up-to-date consensus of the constituents of that compulsive liar with a beard mp to see if he actually is representing their views of today and not 2016
.....if like you they don't have a life....😊
@@chatham43
You just don't like facts that show nobody except cultist believe your Brexit BS anymore.
It's finished and so are the Tories.
Tic Tok
Brexiteer
The Labour Party Needs to Get A Backbone And Say We Are Going into A Election Wit A Promise of Another Vote, if youcan have Elections every 5 years, Something more important, needs to Be Put on the Table !!!!!
"They (the Remainers) said there would be a recession as soon as we came out of the EU..."
You mean like the recession we are about to enter? And did we not only just make a deal and only just officially leave after 6 years of MPs putting it off whilst they were searching for the unicorns they were promised? Normally I would have responded to this quote by saying "no credible experts said we would definitely go into a recession" but it now looks like, if they had, they'd have been right! Really couldn't make this stuff up. Honestly
We didn't enter a recession, but the pound did drop in value and hasn't recovered since. Most of the experts were saying it would be a medium/long term fall, which is exactly what's happened.
More Tory dribble
After watching this debate the end 🔚 of it is applaudable. Peoples views and opinions can change with time , it's obvious that the British people feel very differently about Brexit now than in 2016
The UK will be back in the EU during Labour’s second term in government, providing that they introduce Proportional Representation that will satisfy the EU by keeping the tortes out for decade’s.
I’ve heard various people saying we have a free trade deal with the EU. How can this be. Aren’t we now operating on WTO rules? If we allow free trade (no tariffs?) with the EU, can’t the rest of the members of the WTO demand the same?
Well said George Monbiot as always.
I've been no fan of Monbiot but here he gets it absolutely right. The Capitalist, competitive society means massive inequality, a failing NHS, poor schools, ill health, prejudice and bigotry, selfishness and homelessness....
That last remarks from George.... it makes sense if the goal is to let the rich in the UK not pay taxes.
Aaron Bell’s majority at 2019 GE was about 7.5K - let’s see if his constituents have learned from their mistake.
Tory’s please GO !
The trade just between Britain and Ireland and France together is higher than the trade between Britain and the USA. Trade with just the USA will never, not even outside of the EU be anything in comparison to trade with the 27 EU countries, even when that will eventually become smaller, perhaps.
All that mongering about a trade deal with the USA, as an advantage for Britain, is rather just blaa blaa.
George Monitor really knows his stuff, these panelists are really listening are they.
Thanks GM🌹💐
Moggy said that benefits would be evident in 50 years, that was before the pandemic,wars and the harshest withdrawal agreement.
There's a difference between an 'answer' and a 'decision'. For example: I was walking by a castle with a moat the other day, it was glorious hot weather, if you'd asked me if I wanted to jump in the moat for a swim my 'answer' would have been 'yes'. My 'decision', however, was 'no' since I'd considered all the consequences, my clothes would have been wet, I'd have probably been detained by security guards etc. The Brexit referendum was an impulsive answer from the electorate, the government's decisions should have been more thoughtful. Anyone with children should be familiar with this dynamic -some of the things they 'want' are either dangerous, impractical or impossible, you can't just let them have whatever they want because they don't really understand the consequences. Brexit voters were a bit like a toddler bawling because they want to play with some pretty scissors or screaming at you to take the banana out of their banana milkshake. The Tories let them play with the scissors, now there's blood and banana milkshake all over the carpet...
Interestingly GM says that people are now overwhelmingly wishing Brexit hadn't happened. My view has always be Cameron should have put the whole issue and options into a Royal Commission the day after the referendum.
No. The referendum was intended to decide the issue. It did. The electorate decided we should leave the EU and we left. Sorted.
@dogglebird4430 I politely disagree. Farage and the leavers would have been able to tell us what they wanted us to do and their lies uncovered. Also ditto remainers views put forward and proved to be right or wrong.
@@peterbalchin9077 Lies? You mean like when Remain-supporting prime minister David Cameron told us several times that he hoped we would be voting to remain in a "reformed European Union" despite knowing perfectly well that the EU had absolutely no intention of reforming? No. You don't ask people to vote in a referendum and assure them their decision will be implemented, only to then try to wriggle out of it by allowing some other body to "investigate" the matter. You have no idea why people voted as they did on the day and no commission could ever ascertain that. Furthermore, we have only been properly out of the EU for two years and five months after about 47 years membership. We are in no position yet to properly gauge the long-term consequences of our decision.
@@dogglebird4430 I'm no fan of Cameron but there's quite a difference between "hoped" and "promised".
@@django3422 no. You have misunderstood. He hoped we would vote to remain. He was also saying we should because we would be voting to remain in a reformed European Union. The EU had never agreed to any such reform and he knew it.
What about Gibraltar?
Would surprise me they will vote to become totally independent, and bin toxic 'The UK'. Near 100% voted to remain in the EU in 2016.
Ships are sinking but the orchestra is amazing
They say its bright outside the EU but they never say how.
Well done George.
interesting tory revisionist history in this - did Tory MP aaron bell actually just blame remainers for bad blood with the eu during brexit negotiations @5.55mins??
He's still hoping to pick up the 'You recieve the Brexit dividend' card in Monopoly...
Who needs politicians 🤔
George is right
George telling the truth I did not vote for this
"Britain will start complaining from day one, and they won't stop complaining until they leave, and even then I doubt they'll stop".
Charles De Gaulle abut UK in Eu.
Note; we most definitely do not have a free trade deal with Europe. That was a bare faced lie.
Tories taking us back to the stone age 😂😂😂
George gets it
Gets what?
👏George.
Last minute winner! Get in George!
Why do journalists let someone get away with comments like,"I disagree with", "I refute that comparison", "I dont belive that", Why are the journalist ask 'Why' or a more indepth question, 'explain your answer'. Stoo letting politicians and Think Tank advisers get away with it. Thought the last comment was brilliant.
wow watching them defend brexit is truly pathetic
Ali Miraj is much less biased.
Can we thro farage out of the uk and his mate Boris 😠
People got it wrong. Yes. It happens. But you can vote to make things right.
Brexit was a liars charter, George your great.
You know, you know ? He certainly doesn't
Sense
Isn't a Brexit Hacienda an oxymoron. I don't think the word she was reaching for was hacienda and if so its bizarre.
Talking about Newcastle-underlyme how dare you. Tories have done nout for Stoke since 2019
Is there a harder working MP than Diana Johnson?
thought self - entitled Badenoch her trade deal would safeguard Britain from diabolical brexit.
I’m sorry their is no way the people of the U.K. understand the full scope of Brexit. Most were just going along with the nationalism at the time. The idea of leaving big EU market and that Britain can hold its own. I think it’s obvious that no one is happy with the result the tories have taken. Some Brexiters wanted soft Brexit and a lot wanted remain. But instead we got a hard Brexit.
As usual, the tory can't admit when he's wrong.... reason 659 why I left the UK. :-)
“Would it be so bad to be like Norway “, “no one is talking about leaving the Single Market “. Bring on the Tricoteuse!!
George is still grieving.
I think we have given tories plenty of time for stability, but it never happens
Trade deals with countries THOUSANDS of miles away…. Any 0% tariffs will be countered by shipping costs (no even going to mention the carbon cost)