Lord Of The Rings - Review (Does It Hold Up?)
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- My review of the Lord of the Rings books through the lens of how they hold up to a modern audience.
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One thing Tolkien does that the movies don't do, and that other books don't do, is give you a feel for how long everything takes. It's NOT constant action or constant tension. The characters spend a long time journeying, and a long time resting during their travels, and Tolkien tries and IMHO mostly succeeds at letting the readers FEEL the length of the journey without boring them. I really love and appreciate this, but not everybody does.
I LOVE when they just pause to eat. They are always starving and when they give a description of the food they eat, which is usually bread and cheese or butter, I really look at it through the characters eyes and imagine how amazing it must taste. Simple food but always shared between the group in communion and it almost always gives a few pages of relaxing content.
The pacing gives you a sense of really being there too.
Yeah, for instance wasn't it something like 11 years between Bilbo's disappearance and Frodo first setting off on his journey?
Yes. I've started reading more Fantasy from now a days, and there is great stuff out there, but the Fifth Season for example, it's a great book, but there is a moment they Skip the peaceful life of Raising a child for several years, but after the skip the Child becomes important, but we have no emotional connection to the child, so half of the power that moment might have was not used.
Yep, I completely agree with you.
When someone says they skip the poems it breaks my heart a little bit
When I saw the scene in the extended edition making fun of Treebeard's singing being dull and boring I felt so mad. That was like one of my favourite.
I have a PhD in medieval lit and know most of Tolkien's influences. I still skip the poetry.
@@tamarafeierstein9348 Yea, exactly how I feel. It's part of the charm. I read them out loud every time.
I've recommend people go look up if the Tolkien Ensemble did a rendition they can listen to on CZcams, and it makes it a bit easier for some folks
I mean, at least on my first read, I definitely skipped all of them. I was not here for poetry lol.
Now, of course, I actually sing them out loud while reading, at least if nobody is in the room with me. Just took some time to warm up to them :D
One of the things I like about Tolkien's world building is that he leaves some things deliberately ambiguous. Not even functionally immortal beings like Gandalf are 100% certain what Tom Bombadil's deal is.
Even Tolkien himself didn't know who or what Tom is, which I absolutely love. He wrote middle-earth like he was an historian in the 20th century finding these ancient books and scrolls, but the documents gave no clue to Tom.
Everybody hates on Bombadil.... Yet I absolutely love him
Agreed. The important parts have literally hours of wind-down and resolution--but the small mysteries leave Middle Earth alive. Will the ent-wives be found? What exactly is the Gray Havens like? What will happen to Lothlorien? What about Harad, will they fight again, or do they change? What other crazy things are in the depths of the world, like Moria? What the frack was the thing at the Gates of Moria? Things that don't need to be answered just to sate a reader's curiosity, because if they were, they would become mundane and boring. It's the mystery that lets the world be alive and exciting.
He is.
Or the mystery of the Ent wives!
People: LOTR is so difficult to read.
Silmarillion: Oh you silly human. You know nothing.
Lol yay but it is good in the end
haha was looking for this comment. i prefer the Silmarillion over LOTR actualy.
@@possemis It's a very different book than LOTR, yes it was difficult to read at times, but worth it. LOTR has a hint of magic. Silmarillion is where the real magic and tragedy is.
@@possemis both are good
@@andrevanrooyen6232 oh dont get me wrong, i LOVE the lord of the rings. my personal preference just goes out to the Silmarillion because i like reading mythology in general.
Back in the early 90s, as a 12 year old, I was looking for something new to read on a vacation to the Canary Islands so I packed my mother’s 70s paperback copy of Lord of the rings and got about 80% into it when realising: hey, they are never going to be able to get to Mount Doom by the end of this book, what is going on? So that’s how I found out that there were two more books, that I of course had not brought with me. So that vacation took a sour turn when I had to wait two weeks to get the next books and find out how it would end. Such a harrowing experience that I hope never happens to anyone else ever...
Marry me
Ohh, I remember that feeling. It applied to multiple books. Great description. Sometimes I miss that feeling. Yeah, I do.
You didn’t have a library where you went?
@@MissCaraMint you usually need to live in the area to rent books from a library, and being in the islands, there probably wasn't that much around as far as book shops either. They possibly also didn't want to buy their kid books when they already had them at home. I don't know tho lol, I wasn't there.
I had a similar experience! Brought the first two with me on vacation when I was 11 and had to leave Frodo with Shelob for two weeks.
As a high school student who’s native language isn’t english and just studies it in school, I gotta say, I do think lotr is much easier to understand than modern english literature.
He wrote very formally (imo) which might be why it lines up better with what you learn in school versus modern literature which tends to be far more flexible and colloquial.
thats very interesting to hear, do you have any guesses as to why that is? I wonder if Tolkien being a language expert has a more precise, while still being complex, word choice. Making it easier to interpret his exact point.
@@ifihadfriends437 true.
Yes, so true! I read on Kindle where I can translate the words directly... When reading Sanderson I must translate a lot more words. But I appreciate it, because it hopefully will increase my vocabulary.
I think Tolkien resembles the English we got taught at school here in Germany more (10 years ago, so it might have changed, idk)
@@mellies.8822 exactly ^
I can't imagine reading this book and not reveling in his language. He was such a master of words. This book contains what is, in my opinion, the most beautiful sentence ever written in English: "Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall." Read that sentence aloud and listen to how perfectly it captures the image it's evoking - you can _feel_ the motion of the leaves. It's in those repeating "l" sounds, and in the way the accented syllables fall in a precise rhythm: "Not IDly do the LEAVES of LOrien FALL". On each of those accents, the leaf swings through the air, slowly settling to the ground on the last one. It's a glorious work of wordcraft, that's just ONE SENTENCE in the entire book!
Except for the "Sharky" bit anyway...
@@possumverde "sharky" is meant to have a rough, riffraff sound to it because it symbolizes the fall of Saruman
I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not. But what you said is 100 percent right
@@JoeyGirardin No, the name "Sharky" derives from the Orcish word "sharku", which means "old man".
Serai3 ye, but Tolkien made Orcish up, and Orcish is meant to be a harsh sounding language
As a native italian who read the Lord of The Rings in italian at 12 and read it in English at 16, I really can't understand how native English speakers can find it hard to read. The writing is just SO good it's like music
I think that that was actually some of my problem. I, at the time and still to some extent, do not like or understand or relate to music. My brain just struggles to process it. I could recognize and appreciate beautiful writing, but the poem breaks were particularly difficult for me because of my amusicality.
I read it only in slovak, but it read like The Bible: fascinating, just a bit archaic. Might be about the translation
Exactly. I said the same below. Read translation in my early teens, then English few years later. Apart from some songs it's pretty easy read
@@Ballin4Vengeance Same thing in spanish, there was a bunch of archaic words
Same thing but in Russian
In fact there are 10(!) translations of LotR to Russisn and I've read only 2 of them. But the original text is so perfect and impossible to hit due the language being so different
Someone who lived through the horror of two world wars might not be as enamored of detailed battle scenes described clinically. Just sayin.
He only lived throught the horror of one world war. During the second he was just a distant bystander.
@@Quotenwagnerianer yes but his sons were at the front line. I'm sure he was worried as hell
@@Quotenwagnerianer His nation was bombed and under threat of invasion. He himself worked as an air raid watchman as his part. He wrote and received copious letters from one of his sons who was a fighter pilot stationed in North Africa. He took care of his wife, who was deeply ill for a time, too. And he continued teaching.
@@Quotenwagnerianer It doesn't matter if he was a soldier or a civilian it was still horrible for everyone
I was thinking exactly that when Daniel went over the details (or lack thereof) of the combat sequences.
I think the big factor to consider with LOTR is, its supposed to be an Epic. It's supposed to be modern English Myths, like Beowulf or the Odyssey or the Aeneid were myths in the past.
It's why I'd actually be open to an animated adaptation that builds on this idea. Live-action Theoden shattering a horn with his breath would be ridiculous, but in an exaggerated animated style, it might work.
Yes! You can see this so much with the characters, in the prose, with the poems within a story etc.
Aragorn is likely to come across as a mary sue to modern readers, but when you compare him to the characters in things like Beowulf you can see that he's the 'hero' embodied. The way the characters interact remind me so much of the way they would heap praise on one another in the epics.
The prose and integrated poetry too. I get the impression that people think that LOTR is written in this way because it came out in the 50's. But no, Tolkien was literally creating myths and histories. He wrote in this way to imitate the epics and when you out them side by side it's so clear!
It's a masterpiece by itself, but there's so much context which adds to middle earth. The layers are incredible.
A ten episode Rankin/Bass special?! With Bakshi doing heavy metal end credits on the final episode?!?!
I'm down.
There was an animated adaption of the first two books by Ralph Bakshi. He was also going to adapt The Return of the King as a Part 2, but didn't have the money.
I would be 1000% on board with Studio Ghibli tackling LOTR if they could make it to the standard of films like Princess Mononoke
@@robertwinslade3104 Ew, gross, no.
Don't get me wrong, I love Miyazaki and Ghibli.
But LOTR is a distinctly Western book and needs to be produced by a Western studio. Maybe Cartoon Saloon? They're the folks behind "The Secret of Kells" and "Song of the Sea".
The stoicism is kinda a highlight for me. These characters are almost purely heroes even if they just come from the Shire. It’s the purity and stoicism that shows us what we should be rather than what we deal with.
Yeah. Aragorn for example is a man of destiny with an extended lifespan who wandered the dangerous and wild world for decades and fought for his life many times. People like that tend to be stoic.
@@alexanderholzer7392 Kinda a goal for me. That’s reasonable, right?
@@rlyehianbunnyman4242 Absolutely. We just live in a time where people obsess over their weaknesses and fragility rather than striving for an ideal. And when you strive for something they try to drag you down with accusations of self-righteousness.
@@alexanderholzer7392 I was goofing, but I totally agree. I understand a more ‘realistic’ approach to life, but it is always a personal goal to make the world unrealistically better. If we only set obtainable goals, we can end up falling short of what we can achieve.
A bit of a late reply, but I think the stoicism gives this series (both the movies and the books, although the movie does have more emotionally expressive moments) a very classic atmosphere that strengthens a lot of the interior conflicts because when emotion is expressed, it's made more impactful, and the right moments are chosen for those expressions of emotion. It works not only with the purity and idealism that's prevalent throughout the series, but also just as storytelling because moments like Boromir breaking under the Ring's influence become more powerful because Boromir was a hero. He was a stoic, noble hero who fell under that influence, which is more tragic and compelling than if he was shifty from the start.
I must say, one of the best, strangest party experiences I've had, was when we, the last three people awake, started taking turns reading the lord of the rings to each other. I remember this night so vividly, because it felt so dreamlike.
Haha wow, I have to know more. Did you just start at Fellowship and go until you got bored?
@@Deadflower20xx more like until we fell asleep, but yes! :D
Just finished reading The Felloweship of the Ring. You have missed a point on the "readability" aspect - thou, doth, etc etc isn't present BUT I will say that there are a lot of archaic words. E.I. "the orc fell with cloven head" - cloven!? What is cloven?! It's the past tense of cleave. As in the orc's head got hacked into by a sword. I think tokien wrote like this though on purpose to make the book seem ancient
It's not as if he spoke like this in real life / interviews.
@@MrReedcomics although the education system doesn't seem to teach the word "cloven" anymore, is it really a searing indictment? I don't think that word is very nuanced or descriptive
Something worth remembering; Tolkien experienced COMBAT. When he writes (or doesn't) about "the shit"... he knew it, he saw it, he smelt it. So had much of his audience as both World Wars were fresh.
I learned post Marine Corps that conversations and portrayals regarding battlefield experiences can be difficult. Not even because of PTSD or emotional issues, but more because certain presuppositions and foundational experiences are often missing in the audience. A good communicator can overcome these issues, no doubt. But they are issues.
Stellar review BTW. It's definitely getting a share on FB.
Dang. I didn't even know that, thanks for sharing!
@@briannabergman8381 Once you know he was part of WWI you can't unsee it really.. The western powers allying together against the industrialized east etcetc.
I knew he fought in WW1 but I didn't realise until recently that he wrote the Fall of Gondolin while in hospital after the battle of the Somme (which lasted 4 months, witnessed the first use of tanks, the blackest day in British military history and over half a million casualties on bith sides).
@@stevenjeffrey9877 Man.. Fall of Gondolin is my favorite piece too
@@stevenjeffrey9877 should be noted a version of Fall of Gondolin, as that story was rewritten multiple times throughout his life and the last version (ones he wrote in 1950s) is one of the greatest prologues to a story but that's it sadly. A journey to self-discovery to find the lost civilisation.
I read all these book when I was 8 and was just hooked on the world and couldn’t read anything else for years. Years later, revisiting them... they’re even better.
Lol. I certainly understand them "ruining" reading for a while. They did the same to me.
Same. I first read the book 43 years ago. The only things ever to come close in this genre were the Earthsea original books by Ursula Le Guin, and the original Harper Hall trilogy but Harper Hall doesn't hold up as an adult for me.
@@wendymotogirl Do the Earthsea books have a similar vibe to Middle Earth? If so, I would be very excited to read them.
Wendy LP I love Anne McCaffrey’s Dragonriders of Pern series! I read the first 3 books when I was 12. They were a Science Fiction Book Club 3-in-1 edition. I then spent my allowance on the Harper Hall trilogy paperbacks. Those were written specifically for young people. Even when I was 12 since I had read adult books set on Pern first I found the HH books a little juvenile, but I still loved them.
Praising Tolkien with Clint Eastwood as your picture, a man after my own heart
Beregond didn't make it into the movies, he was my favorite Character! Abandoned his post as Guard of the Citadel of Gondor when he heard Denethor was going to immolate himself and Faramir. Slew another guard to get into the building, killed two servants about to set the pyre aflame, and held the rest of the servants back until Gandalf arrived. He then blocked Denethor from stabbing Faramir, renounced his service to Denethor, and carried Faramir to the House of Healing where he stood by Faramir's side until he recovered.
When Aragorn became king, he punished Beregond to exile from Mina's Tirith, never to step foot in the city again. But, Aragorn rewarded him for his faithfulness to Faramir by promoting him to Captain of Faramir's Guard.
I don't understand why Aragorn punished him? Surely that was a legitimate and justified reason to abandon his post to intervene!!!
@@mikespearwood3914 And there were brought before him many to receive his praise and reward for their valour; and last the captain of the Guard brought to him Beregond to be judged.
And the King said to Beregond: ‘Beregond, by your sword blood was spilled in the Hallows, where that is forbidden. Also you left your post without leave of Lord or of Captain. For these things, of old, death was the penalty. Now therefore I must pronounce your doom.
‘All penalty is remitted for your valour in battle, and still more because all that you did was for the love of the Lord Faramir. Nonetheless you must leave the Guard of the Citadel, and you must go forth from the City of Minas Tirith.’
Then the blood left Beregond’s face, and he was stricken to the heart and bowed his head. But the King said:
‘So it must be, for you are appointed to the White Company, the Guard of Faramir, Prince of Ithilien, and you shall be its captain and dwell in Emyn Arnen in honour and peace, and in the service of him for whom you risked all, to save him from death.’
And then Beregond, perceiving the mercy and justice of the King, was glad, and kneeling kissed his hand, and departed in joy and content. And Aragorn gave to Faramir Ithilien to be his princedom, and bade him dwell in the hills of Emyn Arnen within sight of the City.
@@SpecialEDy Thanks, I appreciate you typing that out for me.
Same with Tom Bombadil. I understand that an almost almighty ancient being that spends his day singing and dancing in a forest might seem out of place in the movies but I loved him in the books
@@johnnythemachine6949 thank you.
I low-key love books that describe food and drinks.
I love the descriptions of smells, touch and texture. The way light will filter through trees etc, what the weather is like. I’m a bit weird like that I guess.
I suggest you read redwall
*GRRM enters the chat*
Yes! I've come to really appreciate other sensory details aside from what can be seen. I like the part in The Two Towers when Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli were following the orcs on foot and they rest briefly watching/experiencing the break of dawn. I could feel the chill morning air, then the warmth, the smell of the fields, and I liked the way Tolkien described light, and shades, and mist, and the look of the distant mountains... It makes the world really feel alive!
I have Asperger's and I love, how the characters are written. I don't understand detailed emotions as well as other people, so the characters in Tolkien's works are much more relatable to me.
You feel the power of the lady, and that of the golden woods
Ah. I'm not the only one.
Same here
Same here
Most 'detailed emotions' are objective lies or just desperate silliness. The characters in Tolkien are stunningly normal and relatable. Sauron the Great and Gandalf the Grey and White, such as they are, make a lot more sense than indefinite streams of modern psychobabble
I was helped tremendously by the fact that when I was in maybe 1st grade or kindergarten, my mom had read a chapter of The Hobbit to me every night before bed. This, coupled with me viewing the Fellowship of the Ring at the impressionable age of 7, left me very excited for reading LOTR. I can’t say this enough - when your first foray into reading seriously is LOTR at age 10 or 11, Tolkien is just magic. Still one of my top three faves in the genre.
That's amazing, the exact same thing happened to me! My mother read to me the Hobbit and the LOTR when I was 7 years old, a little bit every evening. When I was 10 years old I reads all the books, and iI became obsessed. I had three parents: my father, my mother and Tolkien. So much of my personality was shaped by this book, I would have been a completely different person if it were not for Tolkien.
Yup... I read the hobbit first
My dad read me the series when I was 9, and I really liked it. And I like it even more now - just reread it a couple months ago for the first time in over a decade.
I saw LotR at 10, went straight to the books after. Comprehension is up for debate, but by 11 I was working through the Silmarillion!
Same!
English isn't my native language and I love the writing style of Tolkien. His books are actually the only ones I read out loud, because, I don't know it just feels right like this.
The way he chooses words and puts them into sentences seem very deliberate and I think it is obvious through his writing that linguistics was his passion. No wonder it also sounds nice when read aloud.
This is from the perspective of an old guy of 71 who read the books in 1970 and DMed D&D since before the first edition book came out. Daniel, you have done a great job on your video. I have read LOTR over a dozen times and was introduced to it by my father who generally read political and non-fiction books. We, mostly hippies, loved the books for the ideals that Tolkien presented, essentially that good will triumph over evil. That was something we believed in very much in protesting the war, advancing civil and women's rights, protecting the environment, and simply believing in goodness. We even had college courses in Tolkien.
Enter D&D. When we first started playing this new type of game, we aspired to be heroes like Gandalf, Aragorn, or even jolly Hobbits who would show our companionship and worth by battling evil. As time went by, I would always have younger players join the game and I noticed a trend through the years. More people wanted to play evil or more complicated characters and rarely wanted to play the virtuous Paladin. The same thing happened in movies and books. No longer could a Tom Bombadil be appreciated. Times change, and literature both changes peoples attitudes and is changed by those attitudes.
We should be pleased that many people are still interested in reading. We can always hope that some will recognize the value of a writer like Tolkien just as some realize that the best music ever was during the late sixyies and early seventies.
The best music ever was during the Common Practice Period, from 1600 to 1925. The sixties and seventies are still too recent to be objectively judged, as the test of time hasn't still fully taken place, but the general musical market did seem much more respectable than now.
Wonderful comment!
An insightful and well-written comment. I'm 22, and even I realize that music from back then was better. Literature like Tolkien's is something that is not just something I read for pleasure, but I also appreciate the heroism in his tales. While there are some darker ones like Children of Hurin(which I enjoyed very much), his works are mostly optimistic and heroic to their core. Now, I love the movies and rewatch them during Christmas every other year, mostly because those films feel genuine and warm. It sounds weird, but that's how I view them. Literature and movies that come out nowadays are much more pessimistic and it mostly doesn't allow for characters that you look up to or be inspired by them. Like, I love ASOIAF, but none of the characters from those novels I like inspire me. A character like Aragorn might not be as deeply explored as Jon Snow, but I'll always remember Aragorn because he inspires and is a little too perfect, in a good way.
I feel like literature has changed because it mostly reflects the worldview of my generation. Great books and films are still made today of course, but not a lot of them stay with me. It doesn't help that Hollywood doesn't like heroic tales either. Take a look at the Marvel films, for example, they mostly deconstruct their heroes or pitch them against each other. I understand people like that, but it's not my thing.
@@FrancT- I agree, that it is a reflection of the generation.
I so appreciate everything you're saying here-I understand that it's not for everyone, and I am *maybe* (definitely) a little biased since it is easily one of my all time favorites, but it makes me crazy that people won't give this story a try because of a myriad of what I believe to be narrow-minded reasons (the "old language," how it's not complex or gritty enough in comparison to a lot of modern fantasy, etc.). I think this was a really helpful way to unpack this story for modern audiences who are hesitant to give it a try.
As someone who has english as a second language and read GOT when i was like 12 this was impossible for me to read. I couldnt make it past the first 50 pages the writing was very difficult and it took a lot of effort to just read and i couldnt enjoy it atall. I still want to read it but I'll wait a couple years before trying again
@@areeshafatima8453 For me it was the other way. Read LotR at 8 and am now struggling with ASOIAF at 14
Areesha Fatima being dyslexic, the LotR was extremely hard to read for me, but once I got past the first half of the first book, it became so much easier and has ultimately become my favorite series. The way I started it, and something that might help you, is read only a couple pages a day at first. Then, if you start enjoying it, start reading more. Another idea, and one I don’t think most people would enjoy but it’s always a shot, look up all the words and names and see where they come from. That was another thing that helped me get through it my first time. For instance, Bilbo is the old English word for a short sword, or the names of all the dwarves in the Hobbit are from Beowulf. It’s little things like that which can get you interested.
In the past I’ve forced myself to read many books just because I thought that I “should”, because they are “classics”. I’ve since tried to make more of an effort to read for enjoyment. If I don’t enjoy reading a book, I put it down. I don’t think that putting it down because of the, as you said, “old language” is narrow-minded at all, especially if that hinders someone’s ability to enjoy the story. I believe everyone when they talk about this as a masterpiece and I am planning to give it a proper, fair shot in the future, but I don’t think ANY reason (with super specific exceptions, maybe) why people put down a book is ever “narrow-minded”.
Albus Pecival Wulfric Briyan Dumbledor this is my own personal opinion, and it doesn’t hold true for everyone, but I firmly believe that LotR is the best fantasy book of all time. I’ve read C.S Lewis, Jim Butcher, Brandon Sanderson, and dozens of other fantasy authors, and none of them come close. I sincerely hope that when you do read the books, that you enjoy them. They’re the Leonardo da Vinci of fantasy. And by that I mean, while some of his points are, sadly, outdated, they were so far ahead of his time that they still hold up amazingly well in today’s world. I just wish modern fantasy had the poetry and songs that LotR has.
I've never actually read it all the way through. The one time I tried reading it in high school and was really into it...the binding failed and the book fell apart. It was a library book. I freaked out, returned it, and never picked it back up. BUT! I just got a box set and am excited to give it another try.
This book series is the only one I reread every year. There are other series that I love and reread, but none have influenced me like LOTR and the Silmarillion.
Be warned, Book Spoilers Ahead....
Here are the things I love about the series that make it stand out above and beyond what Daniel has offered up:
1. The protagonist does not win at the climax of the story. When pressed by the Ring in the place of its creation at the Sammath Naur, where its power and presence are most intense, Frodo gives in and claims the Ring as his own. In this place Children of Eru can resist the power of the One Ring, not Elrond, not Isildur, and not even a kind hearted hobbit from the Shire. Instead, depending on how you read it, either a curse from Frodo and a vow made on that most trixy of Rings forces Gollum off the edge of the cliff or, Eru Iluvatar (God) gives him a push to honor Frodo's Herculean effort along with all of the heroes who resisted the Ring when it was within their grasp.
2. Frodo's hero moment comes in the middle of the story. It is in this moment that the Lord of the Rings is doomed though no one knows it at the time.
"It seemed to Frodo then that he heard quite plainly but from far off, voices out of the past.
What a pity Bilbo did not stab the vile creature when he had a chance!
Pity? It was pity that stayed his hand. Pity and Mercy: not to strike without need.
I do not feel any pity for Gollum. He deserves death.
Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give that to them?
Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.
'Very well,' he answered aloud, lowering his sword. 'But still I am afraid. And yet, as you see I will not touch the creature.
For now that I see him, I do pity him.'
It is pity and mercy that win the day in the end not overwhelming magic or superior swordsmanship. Those are the province of Sauron the Dark Lord. If there is to be an overwhelming military victory in the story, only Sauron can achieve it. While Sauron has a answer for every spell and any military strategy, what he has no counter for is grace, mercy, and kindness. And, in the end, these are the very things that bring about Sauron's downfall.
3. The main antagonist accompanies the Fellowship on their quest. Although he does not make an appearance in bodily form, Sauron is ever present. The spirit of Sauron, bound within the Ring betrays Frodo to the Witch King on Weathertop, he also twists the mind of the noble Boromir into trying to take the One Ring from Frodo near the Anduin. Sauron is constantly at Frodo's throat, weighing him down and wearing down his will. Instead of being nonexistent in the tale as some claim, I would posit that he is ever present and must be battled constantly.
Same, though I also reread the Dresden Files every year too.
I love the dialogue in point number two but never considered point number three. That makes me want to read the books all over again. An ever present antagonist is a beautiful idea, one I may steal if and when I work up the courage to put pen to paper.
(+1, but) The ring is NOT the spirit of Sauron. Sauron did invest most of his power into it, but it has a sort of “mind” of its own. I don’t disagree with your point 3, that the constant corrupting influence is one of the great parts of the story, but the ring and its maker are distinct entities. The fall of Boromir and the struggle of Frodo, Sam, and all of the wise characters who could have taken the ring for themselves-Gandalf, Aragorn, Galadriel, Faramir-is of the lust for power and the seeming folly of destroying something evil that could be used for good. The Ring amplifies power-lust supernaturally, which serves to showcase the nature of power and corruption in a way impossible outside of fantasy. Perhaps the main moral struggle of LotR is the question of whether and good end can justify evil means-and in that question is the Ring’s potent bearing on the story, not on it being the spirit of Sauron.
Sauron IS present throughout the story in an incredibly effective way, and that is through the growing fear of his influence as the company approached Mordor, the constant questioning of whether the characters are safe from him anywhere. The concern that “his reach has grown long.” That tension would not have worked nearly as well had Sauron been a character explicitly present in the story.
@@shelbymurphy3579 I agree. It is said that the closer the ring came to the heart of Mordor, the heavier the burden became and strong the will of the ring. That’s why when Frodo was at the crack of doom, fulfilling his mission was impossible for him and so the destruction of the ring had to be made by an external force (i.e. Eru Iluvatar Gollum).
Oddly enough, I find the modern style of incredibly fast storytelling ruins the pacing of genuinely promising works. The world never breathes or develops. Characters are in such a rush to get to the next plot point, they start to feel like toys pushed along by an unseen overseer instead of convincing persons in their own right. It's like a rollercoaster you forget about once you're off. I rarely feel as invested as I want to be because there's just not enough context to fully immerse myself and become lost in the story. I think modern writers and readers alike have gravely misunderstood how slowing down your pacing can create such gratifying works.
I think it's especially sad as books are one of very few forms of storytelling that actually allow for very slow pace and almost any length of the story.
A major reason for little non-movie inspired art is that Peter Jackson utilised the most prolific LOTR artists to help envisage the movies. So even the previous non-movie related art is still movie related through these artists and the small LOTR illustrating community.
It's kind of a shock when you learn that those illustrated editions by Alan Lee are before the movies as they look straight out of those with the look, feel, design, even posing and angle sometimes.
@@jankrizkovsky9446 not really a shock - PJ (we're tight like that :) recruited Alan Lee and John Howe as the concept artists for the moves.
@@DonGass And their artwork in the books is amazing.
@@jankrizkovsky9446 20 years ago I was very happy that Jackson understood that the best way to represent Tolkien's world was by reconstructing into his movies the best illustrations of LotR.
Now I have more mixed feelings about this. On one hand, it is still a wonderful idea and it works perfectly. On the other, it killed all creativity around LotR.
As a child in the 80s and 90s it was normal to paint miniatures and build dioramas around concept taken from the LotR. I know painters who were doing backgrounds or preparations sketches for mega-models of landscapes and battles from the book. Nowadays it does not happen the same way: it's mostly about recreating sets from the movies, and even the old illustrations are repurposed this way.
I feel a lot of imagination has been lost here.
@@lorenzoamato953 I first saw the movies. My favourite parts of the books were those that weren't adapted on the screen so my imagination could reign free.
I love those movies and am glad for them. And I love their aesthetic. Aesthetic of Alan Lee's paintings. I think I might have likely preferred that without ever seeing those movies, but I don't know, it just might be seeing the movies so many times. I love them, but also am bit saddend that most new people now are robbed of the opportunity of their own imagining. The book has thus been partially stripped of one of it's most powerful rewards. Still if the image had to be codified, perhaps we scarcely could have hoped for much better, the production and utilising of the artists Lee and Howe (With clear inspirations from Naismith who was invited but couldn't participate at the time.) was great.
I love art not just recreating the movies design. More and more. There are many artists from before and new doing their own thing but you see them little nowadays, in fan spaces, which is sad. There is, beside the Lee, Naismith and sometimes Howe, the occasional Hildebrandt (not my taste mostly), or Jenny Dolfen (very much my taste) and I've seen (forgot her name) she that does art for FFG few times (she does great characters and faces that are not of the actors but are very fitting.). Then there's some fan art but the rest of the old artists are mostly nowhere to be seen. I would like to see so Cor Block for fun from time to time. And where is Timothy Ide? Michael Kaluta? (Though I think I may have seen one of his.) Carol Emery Phoenix? Renshoff and Ploeg? Others? Heck, Tolkien himself? Even more od Lee, Naismith, Howe. It sometimes feels as if people are posting only the same pictures again and again with rare deviation. (Though it's not that bleak.)
I think when one sees the movies before reading the books there is a tendency to regard Aragorn as the hero you are following. Then one gets to the book and maybe there is a moment when we get like "this guy has no doubts, this isn't relatable"... But I don't think that was the point of Aragorn at all. For me, like Gandalf, Aragorn is larger than life, he is no ordinary man. I felt it was Frodo and Sam we were supposed to relate to, they are more human even without literally being human xD
Actually one of my favorite things about LOTR is the writing style. Tolkien can write magnificence in a way that I have never seen before or since... Some scenes he writes in such a grand epic style that I don't even know how he can get away with it, but he certainly can. This is possibly my favorite book and during my fist readthrough I would often tear up not because what was going down was sad but because it was so majestic and beautiful (moments like the march of the ents, or the charge of the Rohirrim to aid Minas Tirith)
Aragorn at the end of fellowship and onwards is repeatedly questioning if he made the right decisions or has run out of time. Then he does fail as in when he takes over the fellowship it breaks and fails as a fellowship.
Exactly! Aragorn is more like an "ideal". And you won't live up to that just like that. Just like every Christian will have a hard time living up to Jesus. Aragorn is the ideal hero. And I think in that role he's portraied even better in the books, because there he's even "tougher". There's also the fact that he is a Dúnedain, going back to Númenor. My memory on the Silmarillion isn't too good anymore, but I think Númenor wasn't too far from Valinor, the place of the gods. So that certainly feeds into the ideal idea as well I would say.
And you are right about epicness, too. Last time I read it I actually wondered why the movie makers even changed the way the witch king enters Minas Tirith. In the books he rides ahead of the army and is the first one to ride through the gate after it's destroyed. I think that's just as epic as the movie version.
@@robertJ14 sure! that's a good point: he isn't perfect and neither is Gandalf, he is even tempted by the ring, as is Galladriel. But still, Aragorn is not your everyman that anyone could relate to
Precisely! The big classic hero characters are not the ones we're meant to understand on that human level craved by modern readers. Of the non-hobbit characters, Eowyn actually has the most intense psychological arc. She is in deep, death-wish levels of despair and survives it. If you only watch the films, you'd miss out on that pretty much entirely.
Oh man, the charge of the Rohirrim ends me every time I watch it or read it or hear the music! Those moments are called eucatastrophe, the unlooked for aid in the darkest hours, and LotR is full of them. People who don't 'buy in' to the type of epic poem world Middle-earth is will dismiss those as deus-ex-machina. But when handled right, they *work*. Not necessarily from a purely logical plot structure perspective, but they aren't about that. They're about that emotional response.
This is one of the reasons I think everyone should read the appendices, always. They show that Aragorn had a long history before the War of the Ring where he gradually built his confidence and earned his right to take the crown. By the time LOTR comes around, he still has his sights, but he's ready to come into his own.
"if you find this too difficult to read, that's your problem" omg yes
I agree, or perhaps it just means you need time to grow up. I tried reading this in middle school and failed miserably, but loved it in highschool. Some people take a little longer for their reading comprehension to evolve.
Even as someone who struggles to stay focused, I agree. I get that accomodating for different people is nice, but that should never be a call to downgrade a piece of work to do so.
I read this when I was in primary school I'm pretty sure. The language isn't hard to read at all.
@@crowthewicked8344 "I get that accomodating for different people is nice, but that should never be a call to downgrade to do so..."
Why, that is the very essence of modern society.
Yes
This was the first epic fantasy I ever read, and I still love Tolkien's books more than anything else. 25 years later, it's been hard to find the same level of satisfaction from other authors' stories. I highly prefer Tolkien's writing style and poetry interludes. I read other stuff, but when I pick up a Tolkien book I always feel like I'm going home.
That's been my experience too!! It's been so difficult to find anything else that comes close. I did love The Second Apocalypse series, but they lack the beauty of Tolkien's world and are too violent for most. It's so difficult to find things that can satisfy one in the same way Tolkien can :)
Namárië was only in the books I believe is it in the movies I don’t remember
I feel the same way. Read The Lord of the Rings in my teens and it's been the standard used for other fantasy ever since. The only series that has come close is Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea trilogy. That is because she is a great writer, maybe equal to Tolkien. It's also a good example that fantasy doesn't have to be in the form of a high fantasy quest.
@@richardrose2606 Have had the exact same experience with The Lord of the Rings and Earthsea trilogy as another series that actually made me just as immersed and involved while reading it. For anyone who loves Tolkiens' works for their language, world and feel and hasn't read Earthsea books I highly recommend them as well.
More real life poetry breaks 🤟
Definitely find Fellowship hard to go back and read but sticking with it always pays off. Love it.
3 days ago... It has been 2 hours since the video released??!!
Mr Scott Cody... Time traveller?!
@@ryan_17295 early view for Patreon supporters! Get on it and support the disheveled goblin (and gain time traveling powers of course).
I just wish, than in poetry break he read a part of the poem in Sindarin, rather then the one in English...
To those who think the poetry is boring:
There’s literally a parody of “hey diddle diddle, the cow jumped over the moon” in LOTR that, when you realize what is going on, is one of the funniest things I have read in a book.
Read the poetry. It’s hilarious sometimes, and awe-inspiring others. Sam’s song about Gandalf’s fireworks, the Oliphaunts, etc. It’s comedic genius.
(Also read Farmer Giles of Ham. It’s a riot. Tolkien had a sense of humor that’s even funnier because he’s Tolkien and supposed to be serious.)
"hey diddle diddle, the cow jumped over the moon" is a thing? Lol, that and most of the Tom Bombadil chapters are things that I'd just skip without a second glance
@@pradeepmathias Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle
The cow jumped over the moon
The little dog laughed to see such sport
And the dish ran away with the spoon
@@fairycat23 I remember that I was first introduced to this by "Sesame Street" where a muppec cow actually jumps over the moon. And then I read LOTR and I was like "Wait a second...!"
@Astro Dandruff and the Hobbits get their swords from Tom, which can wound the Nazgul. So without Tom giving the swords to the Hobbits, Merry couldn't wound the Witch King which allowed Eowyn to kill him
Well then youre a boorish moron.
O Elbereth, Gilthoniel,
We still remember, we who dwell
In this far land beneath the trees
The starlight on the western seas
For me, Tolkien's writing style isn't difficult to follow, at all. Sometimes it can be boring, but the construction is never obscure.
Daniel: *reads tolkien's poem*
Pip: THOU HAST SUMMONED ME!?
Pip: Where am I? Where’s fourth breakfast? Lunch is in 10 minutes, I need to eat
I've found that people who read Tolkien when in their early teens, have an easier time of it. I recall reading Hawthorne when I was in my twenties for the first time and feeling exhausted after only a few pages. I had a different experience with Shakespeare having read Hamlet and The Merchant of Venice when I was 14.
I think that perhaps adjusting to different writing styles becomes more challenging as we get older.
There may be something to that, but in a lot of ways, Shakespeare is actually easier than some of the stuff Hawthorne wrote. It was meant to be memorizable and spoken out loud, so you don't get those crazy long sentences with 18 dependent clauses that you might find in Hawthorne.
Yes I had read all the books by the time I was 14 so they probably influenced my tender brain's development. I think that was a good thing.
Yeah I read it without thinking about style really when I was 13 ish
I'm 14, I tried starting Fellowship, and dropped it. I'm gonna pick it up again at some point, but probably not for a while.
I read LOTR at 13 and don't remember finding the writing style particularly difficult. Now The Silmarillion, on the other hand...
"Cause, you know, Tolkien decided to write a bible!"
Thank you for that
I just started my first read-through of The Lord Of The Rings after years and years of talking about how much I wanted to read it. I have to say - the writing it great and the poems are very fun to read. I have always worried that the style wouldn't fit with my reading preference, but it isn't that archaic - it's really not too difficult to read. I have never seen the movies (specifically because I wanted the books to be my first experience of the story) but now I'm looking forward to it!
Me: Watches LoTR extended editions 16 times.
Daniel: Makes book review
Me: Maybe I'll watch it again.
Only 16 times?! Keep watching 🤣
@@avsambart only 16 in the last 5 years haha
I think I had watched it more times by the time I was 13 lol
read the books instead
@@kcechoxzar that's what I'm intending to do at Christmas
Lord of the Rings was my first introduction to fantasy, and just my all time favourite. I thought your review did it justice. It's always so disappointing when people won't give it a chance. The way Tolkien crafts that growing sense of doom that takes you as the reader to such a low, and then by the end leaves you feeling so hopeful like you can do anything is reason enough for anyone to pick it up. I put Lord of the Rings down feeling better about myself and better about humanity, because of the love that is in that book, love for other people, love for the earth. Everyone can benefit from that.
Yes! An excellent analysis.
I admit to being one of those people who got hooked on the first film and then read the entire trilogy (including cliff notes) before the second film.
I had honestly felt starved for good storytelling content until I read the books.
I think that's why cross generational readers appreciate the books because they recognise the classic tropes of folk tales & heroes but Prof. Tolkien deftly combines the themes of loss, love, despair & hope with a lens of realism that you forget the fantasy setting and just appreciate being on a journey with these characters.
Lord of the Rings and ASOIAF are the two best fantasy series out there. They are two completely different styles that are polar opposites.
A Once and Future King is fantastic as well as is The Chronicles of Narnia
. I love Ivanhoe as well which is fictional history. Time and the Gods by Lord Dunsany is also fantastic and a great set of fantasy stories.
Modern fantasy by and large is trashy and full of Clichés such as "I looked into his eyes and seen years of hurt and pain and just knew that he was a good man". All that from looking into somebody's eyes. Or the character goes to use their powers and there is the big full page description of their struggle to use the power and then there is the occasion it will not work and you just read three quarters of the page to figure that out.
I think reviewing LOTR in today's fantasy climate is tough, but I think you did a great job here. One thing I think can't be stressed enough is that Tolkien didn't start with a story and then build a world around it. He started with a world (rather, a language within that world), crafted it, and then told a story from that world to show off the lore and scale of that world. If you read LOTR with the understanding that it is a showcase of the world, rather than the world being an element of the story, it kind of changes your perspective on the story. I was a teenager the first time I read LOTR, and I will be honest, I skimmed through a lot of the poetry and prose to get to the action. As an adult, and armed with a much deeper understanding of the lore and history of the world, I have appreciated the depth and breadth of the poetry and prose (and the pacing!) much more than the action sequences.
The other thing that Tolkien does better than just about anyone else I have ever read is immersion. As a reader, I feel all the things. The fear and determination of Helm's Deep. The slow burning anger of the ents at Isenguard. The sadness and desperation of Samwise near the end of Frodo's journey to Orodruim. The calm resignation of Aragorn at the Black Gate. I didn't just read it, man, I felt it. I got chills when the Riders of Rohan made their charge, and choked up when Theoden died.
It is so rare these days to read a book that really makes me feel things. Real, genuine emotion. And don't get me wrong. I love the way modern fantasy books make you think. But Tolkien makes you feel. And every once in a while, I want that.
All in all, this was an excellent review, and I thank you for it.
I didn't expect to tear up at the battle of Pelennor fields and the scene where Sam thinks Frodo is dead but boy was I wrong.
reviewers always SAY Aragorn "isn't relatable" and "too stoic" but I've never met an actual human who wanted Aragorn to be more of a whiner.
the problem with today's books is that they create relatable characters instead of examples of life to tend to.
The thing is his characters actually ran across the Gambit. I've met people who are as stoic as Aragorn. And I've also known people who are as emotionally vulnerable as Sam. I've known people who are just as weaselly as Gollum and wormtongue. And having been in the military I have known plenty of fairly simple individual who have risen to the occasion because necessity demanded it just like Frodo. Peter Jackson in my opinion greatly simplified the character and in some ways made them less relatable
He appealed to me in ways wiseacre American heroes like Indiana Jones never could. He is mysterious and reveals himself to us in the manner he is revealed to the other characters which is a style of characterization which isn't popular these days but wears its influences proudly
Also, he is SUPPOSED to be older (like 85, right?) and wiser, as he has the blood of the ancient line and lives a longer life. He's seen as much as grandpa who fought in the world wars--Tolkien knew what that was like, and he wrote Aragorn appropriately.
I don't think "relatable" or "less stoic" is the same as whines more.
I am not a native english speaker. But when I hear that people - native english speaker - have problems with his writing style I am really dumbfounded. I think that the beauty of that prose is in its clarity. It starts with a simple concept like the hues of the Lorien trees, and than he embroidered poetry and worldbuilding on. Sometimes this lack of poetic sensibility in nowadays fantasy readers really worries me. Its not like you must love it at all cost but you know... sometimes won't hurt to enjoy some poetry in everyday life and won't hurt to not see everything throught default lenses. Not everything has to be modern, and up to date, and follow strict modern rules and so on.
Oh my god me too! i read it in both the original english and the translated version in portuguese. His prose is so beautiful and it rather bugs me how many people i see that say it's boring. But i get it. It's not for everyone.
What??? I have eng as a 2nd lang and am an avid poetry reader hell i write poetry i love keatings and wilde but couldnt make it past the first 50 pages of this book due to the writing. I dont know what ur trying to
@@UnrealPunk BLM?
I actually found the writing style clunky and not poetic at all, despite all the poetry 😂. It wasn't until halfway through the trilogy when the writing style started to click with me and I was able to enjoy the story.
Until I got used to it, it felt very dull, clunky, and awkward, and prevented me from feeling absorbed in the book.
English is my mum's second language, and she's an avid reader of English books. She hasn't been able to get past the first LOTR book.
I think it's a style thing, not how "advanced" the writing is.
@@UnrealPunk Thanks for clearing that up. I thought "BLM" was a book series. I figured out it could mean "Black Lives Matter" but could see no connection to the conversation. xD
I actually love Tolkien's writing style it builds a gorgeous atmosphere while reading. I just read the fall of Gondolin (don't know if it has different name in English) and it felt like sitting to Tolkien's feet in front of a crackling fireplace and listening to his words.
The English name is spot on and I totally agree. Tolkien’s writing style is literally one of my favorite things about his works.
Which language are you reading it in?
@@jonathonfrazier6622 i read it in German 🙂
@@robrising3758 i greatly enjoy german. I speak a very little bit of it. My Grandmothers people lived in the Black Forest before moving to America in the 30s.
When I first read the LOTR (the only time I have in its entirety) I really struggled with the wordiness - but I was pretty young at the time (late primary school or first year of high school - so 12/13ish). Then I picked up years later and was completely blown away. So beautiful, so much atmosphere! I think perhaps we learn to read differently over time, and rather than being bored by details you need them. Books without them seem so simplistic and empty
Well it grabbed me aged 10. Forty three years later I have read it 54 times. I'm currently listening to Fellowship on Audible for the first time. I've read thousands of books over the years. Not just fantasy I admit. However it remains for me, my favourite book. I appreciate the songs and poetry now, more than as a 10 year old. I grew to love the history from my twenties. I find stuff that I've forgotten or missed in the past even today. The audio book in the last few days has made me go "really? How did I miss that?
Regardless, thank you for your thoughts.
The pausing for songs and poems and is honestly one of the best parts of the book. It’s one of the ways that Lord of the Rings props up truth, goodness, and beauty as the ultimate values worth fighting for and preserving no matter the cost - and no one appeals to these values greater than Tolkien.
My English teacher is like a geek in Tolkien. We read the hobbit as a class and discussed the Catholicism within the book. But basically what she said when he was originally telling it, it was a bedtime story to his children. That’s why fili and kilis death in the books and other possibly gruesome scenes were just glossed over bc u know he could’ve gone a lot more dark considering his experiences in the trenches. But when he wrote the LotR, he wanted to make a mythology for England. Mesopotamia had the epic of Gilgamesh, Greeks had the Iliad and the odyssey. Rly the only English mythology there was was Arthurian Legends, which was dying out. So he went into it creating a world to fit his languages, which he made first. He wanted to make England’s new thing that they’d treat it as their own Iliad or something like that.
When someone asks me if they should read LOTR my answer is always, "Maybe?" I love the books but just like Malazan or Dune it is not for everyone AND THAT IS OKAY. For me it is always one of the books that I slowly ready though IMHO. Every word is on a the page for a specific purpose rarely seen in today's writing.
But the worst part of LOTR is the gatekeeping. To quote our Disheveled Goblin, "What language do YOUR trees speak?" Sums up many LOTR fans to a T.
I couldn't agree more. I wish hadn't discovered LOTR fans ever in my life, and I love those books to death.
LOTR mega fans be like: "Unless you speak Entish, Elfish or Orcish YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!" Hahaha
@@LordofRacoons not Entish, Elvish OR Orcish, but Entish, Elvish AND Orcish because thats the level of gatekeeping they're on .
The hilarious thing about all those fans is that Tolkien was a Philologist...and...2:10-2:30 of this video...LANGUAGE was EVERYTHING to him...and I bet they all pronounce his name wrong. It's Tol-keen...not Tol-kin.... I MEAN LOOK AT THAT SPELLING!!! Imma Tol-keen fan till I die...but don't ever want to put people off of one of the greatest series of all time by being a Tool-keen fan. Spot-on Review!
Gatekeeping has been a persistent issue with the Tolkien fandom, and it crops up in almost every corner of the community. It’s particularly bad because it’s not just about “knowing” the right things, but “having” the right opinions and interests. (God forbid if you don’t find the sons of Fëanor the most compelling figures in the Silmarillion…)
I read LOTR to each of my kids and they both insisted that I read the poems. My oldest insisted that I sing them.
Clamavi di Profundis can help with the tunes! They do some unbelievably gorgeous renditions of Tolkien's music.
“If you find this difficult to read, then that’s your problem. 😒” I may have said this once or twice to some people. 😬
I genuinely believe I quote LotR (either books or movies) at least once a day. "I will do the dishes. But it is not this day" *offered vegetables * "we hates it, precious". Etc.
I have to start doing this more!
Fool of a Took! And PoTaTOs¿¡ boil em, mash em put em a stew! Mushrooms! And what about second breakfast?
All qoutes i use on a daily bases at work.
Bit then again. I also quote squidward alot at work, like daring are we? I work in a themepark in a small booth where we sell Fries and seafood. So basicly all the quotes have value. Aspecially the first two quotes xD
Not gonna lie, I'm one of the heathens who gave up halfway through book 1 because of the writing style and the pacing. But your comment about reading it to your kids makes me want to give the audiobooks a go.
I really like it narrated by Rob Inglis and that's how I mostly read/listen to them. And you can totally skip the songs the first time thru, call me a heathen for it but you can
Why does it say that ur comment is from 3 days ago the bideo came out like 40 mins ago huh
@@PotbellyBob oh thanks for the rec!
I second the recommendation to give the Rob Inglis audiobook a try. He very much reads like a father reading to his children. If you absolutely cannot make it through reading it yourself, this is the next best way IMO.
@@areeshafatima8453 He's from the future.
Gotta say when I was like ...9 sure the Song of Eärendil is like "okay fine, whatever" but as an adult, as someone who is writing fantasy I think it's important that a world have ...song, it adds to the culture, it gives you that history without an exposition dump so many people despise. So like...just... appreciate that most modern fantasy writers don't bother to even try because probably they can't.
I have never read Tolkien. But I've listened to the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit over and over again. Hearing his writing out loud is so incredible. I highly recommend the version narrated by Robert Inglis. It is a work of art.
If the poems are hard to get through, I'd recomend reading The Hobbit. The prose is charming and a breeze to get through.
Hey Dan can you do a review on The Hobbit and Silmarillion including the short stories of Beren and Luthien, The Children Of Hurin and The Fall of Gondolin. Beren and Luthien and The Hobbit are my two favorite stories from Tolkien.
I think Tolkien’s perspective style is interesting:
Many authors nowadays filter the entire story world through the protagonist. It is a writerly technique to create intimacy with the lead character. But it backfires when much of the worldbuilding goes unseen. (I.e. Anything outside the main character’s perspective)
This might be a nice trick to limit how much world building one must undertake as an author, but audiences can usually sense the shallowness of the world even if they can’t see it directly.
The Return of the King:
“It was a land in which it would be possible to creep from hiding to hiding, unseen to all but the most watchful eyes: possible at least for one who was strong and had no need for speed. For the hungry and worn, who had far to go before life failed, it had an evil look.”
-Page 913
Notice Tolkien’s use of narrative perspective here. Also:
“Neither man nor orc now moved along its flat grey stretches; for the Dark Lord had almost completed the movement of his forces, and even in the fairness of his own realm he sought the secrecy of night, fearing the winds of the world had turned...”
-page 913
Notice we glimpse into the perspective of Sauron here.
Tolkien manages to glean the objective details of Mordor while also supplying that same world as experienced (felt) by the main characters.
It might slow the story down, but you have to appreciate the totality rendered in that perspective style!
See? Even the cat was moved by the prose.
The new overlays with the detailed rating are awesome!
Also Pips looks like the softest furball. Super cute.
This was definitely an interesting interview. Your respect for Tolkien combined with your understanding of the modern audience made me actually smile.
The first time I read LOTR I skipped the poems. Then later, on rereading, I learned most of them. Two reasons for reading the poems, besides what was said here, are: 1. You glimpse the larger history of Middle Earth (Earendil, Beren and Luthien, etc.), and 2. Deeper appreciation of the different cultures that we meet (the Hobbits' rhyming poetry, and Elves' blank verse, and the marvellous alliteration of the Rohirrim).
As some who isn't a native english speaker and loves myths (from akkadian myths to norse sagas), I have never read anything in the 'fantasy' genre that has surpassed Tolkiens work. It just feels so complete and like any other myth-story that I cannot understand how just one single person wrote all this. It's so near to perfection - in my mind - that it has no equal.
/edit: I especially love the poems!
It's over thirty years since I read these books, and yes I struggled with the first one but it was well worth it.
I quite enjoyed the poems, but one of them, Bilbo's poem, brought me almost to tears and it's something I would like to be read at my funeral.
"The road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began / Now far ahead the road has gone, and I must follow if I can..."
Thanks for that quote, however, the one i was refering to is:
"I sit beside the fire and think, of all that I have seen, of meadow flowers and Butterflies in summers that have been.
Of yellow leaves and gossamer in autumns that there were, with morning mist and silver sun and wind upon my hair.
I sit beside the fire and think, of how the world will be, when winter comes without a spring, that I shall ever see.
For still there are so many things, that I have never seen.
In every wood in every spring, there is a different green.
I sit beside the fire and think, of people long ago, and people who will see a world, that I shall never know.
But all the while I sit and think, of times there were before, I listen for returning feet, and voices at the door."
This was on page 295 of my copy of fellowship of the Ring.
@@NSE_Foden Yes, that is such a moving poem.
it's funny, at 18, i hated reading anything. I picked up lord of the rings and was hooked, then read dragon lance books then wheel of time.
Wheel of Time is not as good as Lord of the Rings.
I read LOTR and, later, The Hobbit and Silmarillion, in my early teens. The gravitas of the history and world building buried in those books set me to delight in reading science fiction and fantasy to this day and to appreciate both the light hearted and dark stories, though I prefer tales that are a bit less Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever depressing. I have also re-read LOTR several time as the years have rolled by and found it holds up very well. "Deep roots are not reached by the frost", indeed.
All throughout my childhood my parents told me about the Lord of the Rings, quoting it and telling me (no-spoilers of course) about the plot. I didn’t think much of it until my best friend lent me his worn and underlined favorite copy of the Hobbit (of which he had three) when I was around 10. I finally picked up the Lord of the Rings around a year later, and I don’t think I’ve been so engrossed in a book since. The Lord of the Rings has a huge impact on me and I adore it, after watching this I might reread it again!
"If you find this too difficult to read, that's YOUR problem." I love this so much haha. Couldn't agree more. It's not like the prose is so hardcore extreme difficult...no, it focuses on things that modern audiences might not be used to anymore, but those things hold so much VALUE in the very experience of reading the words.
When I started reading LoTR, coming from one of a kind prose pro like Rothfuss, was a full contact smack on the face. It was such a change that it made difficult the task (yes, intentional wording there) of reading the first book. But by the point I finished Fellowship and began The Two Towers, I was completely sold by everything Tolkien and the Middle earth were.
And I want to almost scream this, I haven't read en ending so huge, monumental, satisfying, since LoTR. Probably one of THE biggest build up's in any saga ever written.
As you said, as many things the ending was predicatble too, but that made the journey all the more enjoyable. I knew everything was intentional, everything was leading to that ending, so much stuff that happened along the way and how it impacted progress.
As a young reader, that came from a context of modern epic fantasy, I can confirm it was a tough beginning, had to adapt, but it will be forever worth it.
I'm actually reading through the books for the first time right now (27 y). I've loved the movies since they came out. You said both things that have struck me the most about the books: 1. The action is... not so actiony. 2. The language is beyond beautiful. I often read aloud just because the sentences are so beautifully written. Also, I like mountain trekking, and I love how Tolkien knew how to describe grand landscapes like they really are.
Another awesome video that got me appreciating things a bit more deeply, and also gave me some ideas for the project I'm starting. Time to do a deep dive into your catalog to find more videos relevant to building new fantasy worlds and systems, finding a balance between the grand tradition and modern sensibilities and audiences.
I actually loved Fellowship, thought Two Towers was a slog to get through (took me like 5x longer than fellowship to get through), and really liked Return of the King.
If I remember right, it's somewhere in the first half of The Two Towers that I've gotten bogged down in more than one of my readings of LOTR.
I was the opposite! The first time around, it took me multiple times to get through FOTR Book 1 but after that I flew threw the rest of the story, especially TTT.
@@avsambart same. Two towers reinvigorated me to finish the series. (First time reading through, I honestly didn't finish Fellowship. I lost count how many times I restarted that book, so I skipped it. I've since gone back and read it, though.)
When Daniel goes *bonkbonkbonk* on the table, you know he's passionate about what he's talking about
I love all your Tolkien videos! (Binging all of them this December because, for some reason, LOTR fits the season of Christmas for me) They help keep my passion for Middle-earth alive, thank you!
My first journey to your page and I am hooked. I like your delivery and this review. Thank you for your work!
It hurts that it's not the best selling ever anymore, but it's also good, it means fantasy is moving on and, hopefully, improving.
I bet it still sells like hotcakes in the used book market. It's just been printed so many times there's very little reason to pick up a completely new copy.
@@Firearrow5235 I have 3 different Editions of LOTR so if there is a beautiful edition coming up Later in the time I am alive, I am down to pick it up.
To be honest I think it shouldn't be on the list of best selling series because it's not a series, it's a novel.
I feel like HP is catching up on the number of editions to much older books FAST. Like the 20 years of magic/house edition has each book come out in 8 variants. Eight variants of the same book at the same time. And you can bet your ass soon after it's done we're going to see 25 years of magic edition. I'm not sure any series/book got as many editions pumped out in such a short period of time before.
@@atharvadeshpande4749 Yeah, I only have two for now. One in my native language and 60th anniversary edition. However, if John Howe and/or Alan Lee (or someone else with amazing art) were to work on fully illustrated edition, or if they did a in-world replica I'd pre-order that puppy the day it was announced even if I had to wait 5 years for it.
When someone tells me they don't like the prose in LOTR I automatically assume they take their steaks well done and talk during movies.
Don't insult us well done steak eaters like that.
ah yes the McKenna Triad of tolkien antipathy-steaks well done-talk during movies, indicating no internal monologue. needs to be more research into this.
David McKenna you forgot: with ketchup. And talk during movies they've seen to set you up and commentate mid-movie on key parts and "reassure" you about characters' fates when they maybe shouldn't even respond to any outburst question. Anything outside of a gentle neutral "just watch what happens.." is, to me, unacceptable, spoilers or not.
could you not call me out like this? and I only talk when the movie is like really boring...
I eat my steak well done and I adore Tolkien's prose. I broke the stereotype!
Imagine being a fly on the wall for a conversation between Tolkein and H.P Lovecraft.
I actually have never read anything by Tolkien or seen any of the movies based off his work. I read The Hobbit at the end of the year last year and had such a wonderfully fun time! It was a fun breath of fresh air after finishing the third dune book. I just started fellowship of the ring a month ago or so and I've been loving it so far! I find myself becoming attached to specific locations and characters and doing research online to what their life was. Where did they grow up, how did they get to the location that I met them for the first time in. I know it has been said before but it truly does make the book feel more historical rather than fictional.
I would add, that the PJ movies were inspired by art by Alan Lee.
Inspired is an understatement. Both are credited as conceptual designers and were heavily involved in the production. Looking at their artwork from before the movies were made, it is clear that their vision of middle earth went straight into PJ’s films.
And on top of that, PJ was stealing scenes frame-by-frame from the 1978 animated film :-)
@@polarisnorth4875 I think that Howe's influence was even more prominent... More observant people are obviously invited to correct me; no strife...
And Ted Nasmith
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: *YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS*
Longer answer: HEEEEELLL YYYYEEEEEEESSSSSSSS
Unpopular opinion:I hope to God and Jesus that the rumors of Amazon’s Lord Of The Rings tv show having sex and nudity are false. However, if the rumors are true, then a lot of us Tolkien fans should take the brave and strong stance:To protest against the show by simply refusing to watch it.
Any comments?
Just finished reading through the first half of Fellowship of the Ring, and I have to say that Aragorn talks about his uncertainties a LOT in that part of the story. His deepest worries about worthiness are buried VERY deep -- how Arwen is presented as a great lady, and how he is presented in Rivendell compared to all the other great lords, comes to mind -- but his worries about the best route to get them to Rivendell actually provides a lot of the foreboding tone, which is the focus of the drama there.
I haven't read any classic fantasy books before. This was very helpful to me in understanding more about how the books are delivered and what to expect. The movies are my ALL TIME FAVOURITE films. After watching this I am down to read those poems, commit to the pace and appreciate Tolkien's writing. I think I'm finally ready. Also your cat melted me! MELTED ME!
A few years back, I tried. Granted... I didn't try hard... Only a couple pages.
Still, I know I struggle to get through a physical book when the pros come off a bit higher than I'm used to. Should I try to power through or just audiobook it? If audiobook, which version?
Edit: While writing this, I'm just now finishing Chapter 1 of the Rob Ingles narration on Audible while doing house chores. It's so charming!
This is the audiobook I listened to a couple years ago that I absolutely loved! It's more dramatized, with voice actors and sound effects and whatnot, and it was really a fun listen for me -
tokybook.com/lord-rings-audiobooks-01/
@@theladytassi I appreciate it! Thanks
@@UnrealPunk I read that in middle school. It was certainly easier to get through.
@@theladytassi That version is one of my all time favorites. I read lotr first on paper, but now have a yearly listen of Phil Dragash's amazing audiobooks. 😍
The way he brings the characters to life, while paying serious homage to the films, is awesome!
I have always enjoyed the audiobooks by Rob Inglis on audible. I would say listen to them and call me heathen but you can skip the songs the first time thru
I couldn't get through these until I started reading them aloud to myself. Reading them aloud really unlocked the glorious poetry in Tolkien's writing style and connected me to the heart of the story.
As a young robust man, 30 years ago, it was the first book that made me cry. I felt like I'd fallen into a fully realised world, populated with characters I cared deeply for, by the end. That slow accumulation of detail, the result is mesmeric, like an hallucination. He was a scholar, a linguist and an artist, the breadth and depth of his learning was evident in every sentence.
It was many, many years later that I had a similar experience with Pullman's Dark Materials. I love Paradise Lost and the work of William Blake so all that helped, I guess. Is there other stuff like LoTR and HDM in the genre? I'll be looking through your channel for recommendations, young man, as you seem to know. what you're talking about.
Wow! I'm so glad to hear this review! I really enjoyed the Lord of The Rings and it is EXACTLY what I look for in a fantasy. I just finished it yesterday and I have never read it before then. Growing up I adored the movies and it never occurred to me to read the books. Then I decided that I was going to read them this year and annotate it. Best decision ever. I actually read the last page and felt sorrow in my heart that the journey was over.
Totally agree with all the points you made in this video! Though I truly love and appreciate LOTR I think it is very different from what fantasy looks like today!
read them all for the first time 5 years or so ago when i was about 12 and got through them all fine, they've been my fave books since, i honestly don't get people who say they can't get through them lol
I'm so grateful to my dad for reading this to me when I was young, granted I did fall asleep a fair lot and make him skip anything involving Shelob but the story instilled this awe and love of fantasy and language that I still have today. My aim is to read it at least once in every decade of my life! (Following in my fathers footsteps🤞)
I definitely see the struggles for some modern readers; the council of Elrond for example drags for me, but the poetry I love! I often think that Tolkien was never writing in order to please audiences or sell books (which has to be in a lot of writers consciousness today), he just wrote what interested him and sometimes as a reader that can be frustrating. The commitment to craft and world building I just respect so much.
Tolkein being a oxford professor of linguistics, a huge language nerd and a WWI vet explains a lot of why he wrote his books the way he did.
Amazing review Mr. Greene. Very astute observations about expectation. I failed to read LOTR in my late teens/early twenties when I expected fantasy to have lots of action. Fastforward a few years and I was an avid reader who had come to like PJ's trilogy and was a lover of War and Peace. Tolkien's review of Beowulf put me in the mood, and I flipped open 'Fellowship' to where I had stopped and instantly realised I had made a horrible mistake in stopping. I began agian, this time from the Hobbit and went right through drinking it all like a fine wine.
I wound up listening to these in audiobooks and that worked for me. The poetry break that you read is rather awesome - in context it is a prophecy (if I remember correctly) so actually is useful. Also, it has one of my favorite lines ever - "All who wander are not lost."
If i remember correctly, I heard in lections of some professor on youtube that Tolkien (as person that worked with translations of old text) tried to immitate that feel in the LOTR. Some artifacts like suprise poetry verse in old text can be found because person that rewrites that thing in the past would like to add something from himself. And the older text is the more of that "artifacts" can be found. So poetry in Tolkien book not only some literature craft by itself, but also another layer of crafting book of english myth from historic times.
Combining prose and poetry is present in many historical texts/fictions in many languages. And we sadly lost it now because apparently to the modern audience, verse is boring and hard to read.
@@mralireza931 That is surprising. The Chinese four great classical novels all utilize poetry to a great extent which expands meaning and even, sometimes, acts as the battle scene to describe the heroics of a certain character.
It is a shame to see that this time-honored trend (which in my opinion only strengthens a narrative's memorability, rather than detracts) is being lost in our current day's fantasy.
@@HighPriestFuneral Exactly, in my language (Persian) too. Poems were always presents in major works.
My husband and I are reading the LOTR series for the first time together right now.. It absolutely blows my mind it was written so long ago. This story was so ahead of its time.. truly timeless!
Hello Daniel,
I read The Lord of the rings when I was almost fourteen years old.
I read it in three days! it was Impossible for me to put it aside. Impossible to do anything else but to keep on reading.
I was as tired as Frodo bearing the ring to mount Doom at the end, but I was compelled to continue this journey through Middle Earth, pages after pages .
Once I closed the book, I wept during fifteen minutes: because it was over, because Tolkien and his book touched my heart and soul.
I read it thirteen time since that first reading (and two times in english wich is obviously not my mother tongue).
I nerver, ever read anything else that was close to make me feel the same.
I never understood what's the trouble with the writing or the difficulty to read it.
One of my friend didn't like to read; he used to say that reading was not for him. I told him that was because he never read the right book and I gave him a copy of LoTR.
He looked at me with wide eyes, asking if I wanted to knock him out with that brick. But netherless he read it and since that time he read a lot of other books and love to read (any book after that seemed not that thick for him).
So yes, LoTR is not that hard to read from my point of view. I Think it's beautifully written but saying that is barely scratching the surface of what is LoTR.
If real magic exist, Tolkien is the closest being I know to be a wizard, and he weaves his most powerfull spell in this book.
Thank you for the review.
I actually read the books as a child - my parents refused to let me watch the movies before I read the books. LotR was my introduction into fantasy, and it holds a special place in my heart. All the points you brought up were perfectly valid, and looking back I see what you mean, I'll definitely keep an eye out on my next reread.
Thank you l Daniel. I am , in fact, one of those teens who have put off reading lord of the rings but only because I tried reading them in English which is a foreign langauge to me. The reasojs are probably a llitte bit unusual: I deeply loved the writing style and the poems but I always had the feeling that I cant savor it since I certainly could not pick up on some things because of the linguistic barrier. I also cant read it in German because translation would harm the merits of poetry for me (word choice, sentence structure, etc.). Maybe these reasons are a bit silly or exaggerated, but I ll keep waiting until I feel better versed in English. I havent seen the movies either because I want my head to be more creative in visualizing whats happening on the pages.
My deepest respect to you! I hope you'll soon master English well enough to read that wonderful book. I have to say, I learned English through Tolkien: first I read his books in my own native language as a kid. I struggled with English throughout my highschool carreer because I didn't spend enough time on it. But when I started to reread Tolkien in English, that all changed. Nowadays, I can't read it in my native language anymore because of the exact same things that hold you back. Still have my copy lying around for nostalgic and emotional reasons though. But maybe it's an idea to start with The Hobbit? It's a book written with a younger audience in mind, so it should be a bit easier on people that still haven't mastered enough words. His short stories are wonderful to read too.
I absolutely love the reason you haven't watched the movies. Tolkien actually said the something similar in an essay once: that literature is building a secondary world in the mind of your audience. And each mind will craft its own unique images based on what the author has written, which I think is a very intimate relationship between a writer and a reader. I'm still immensly thankful to my parents that they wouldn't take me to the movie theater to watch these films before I had read the books because of this very reason.
@@MasterBombadillo thank you so much ,this is so wonderful and heart-warming to hear! You were able to eperience the Lord of the Rings in such a memorable way, that´s great!! Maybe I should do as you said, or read it simultaneous in English and German... anyway, thanks again!
i love this video. i thoroughly enjoyed the poetry and if anything while i read the books when i was younger, this series made me realize there is beauty in poetry. Bilbo's poem about growing old is one of the most beautiful things i have ever read and now the i grow older, one of the most relatable thing i have ever read. this series has so much readability because the older you get you will recognize a lot of undertones in the story that you may not have being older. especially the feeling of things that once were are now gone forever.
this review made me wanna do a reread, been having lots of LOTR nostalgia lately. loved this!!
is there a reason why this video is "unavailable on this device"? i've tried on my desktop as well as mobile
Just got to brag about my awesome mom for a sec. My mom has always been a firm believer in reading the book before watching the adaptation. So, when the lotr movies were coming out she bought the box set of Alan Lee illustrated copies and read them out loud to me and my siblings begin with the Hobbit and ending with the Silmarillion. She then bought a set of paper backs for me to dig through and not mess up her nice book and also the extended editions for us to watch. I will forever be grateful to her for instilling in me a love of fantasy and of books in general by taking the time to read to me(she also read all The Chronicles of Narnia books and The Little House On The Prairie books as well as countless other books). I know this is a passion I plan on passing on to my kids someday and I encourage anyone who has any to read to them.
I have only recently read LOTR for the first time and thought it was an absolute page turner!! I am German, and English is not my first language, but I was surprised at how easy it was to understand Tolkien. Likewise, I really enjoyed the poems, because they give you a sense of the ancient lore that the different peoples and Middle-Earth as a whole inherit. LOTR didn't read so much like a fantasy novel, but at times more like an epic, and I think Tolkien intended that. He does change style here and there I thought. The chase of the Nine Riders and Glorfindel was almost cinematic, whereas alot of what happens in battles is only gone over in passing. Sometimes the narrator reveals in epic-fashion background information that is useful for the reader to know, as when Merry stabs the Witch-King, or Shelob's story. At other times, explanations are withheld. The story between Sam and Frodo is much more personal and intimate, as in modern day novels, almost psychological, and we know exactly what is going in Sam, as he becomes the protagonist in their last journey. Anyhow, I can only recommend it, if one reads it as some sort of modern day epic poem that is meant to move through language and story-telling, conveying a sense of wonder and marvel.
It's been fifteen years, give or take, since I've read the books and I can still remember the awe I felt in certain moments, especially throughout Return of the King. From the Dúnedain catching up to Aragorn, Eowyn's response to "What do you fear, my lady?", Aragorn entering the Houses of Healing, etc., you get the feeling that you are a front-row witness to something extraordinary, something great. It's a feeling that stays with you even after you've turned the last page.