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Home Made Hot Water Float Valve! (For the flash steam boiler)
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- čas přidán 4. 01. 2022
- It's also a steam separator, I think, although you can correct me if I'm wrong. I made this out of plumbing fittings mostly and I hope it will help me on my quest to build a steam engine from bits and pieces around the workshop.
I'm going to guess that a few people who will worry that this will explode, so I'll just say this now - THERE'S A HOLE IN THE TOP TO LET THE STEAM OUT!
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Fascinating. Real Heath Robinson in reverse stuff. I love it.
Tim, I believe this meets the definition of Steampunk! (And that's a good thing, in my view.)
You make tinkering with things fun to view bro, hope you get to where you are aiming for with this. Safe travels through 2022
"Is um, _very small_ "
I just found this and I love the channel already
Genius. I love the various solutions you come up with rather than simply buying stuff off the shelf.
Can't wait to see the finished product
The runout in your drill press gives me anxiety lol.
Great video as always
Looking great Tim, can't wait to see more!
Excellent work, thanks for the video. The steam stuff is just as exciting as the work on the railroad
Thank you very much
I agree, it's all good fun. I don't mind which topic, all the videos from this channel are good to watch.
The world's most interesting and entertaining tinkerer.
Happy New Year
Ha! Thanks - same to you!
Well done Tim. All the best to you all for 2022 way out west in Ireland from us way out west in France 👍
I'm with those who would separate the "water level" function from the "pure steam" function, because I was raised on Modular Design. My immediate thought was to use an available toilet float connected by a U-tube to control the water level, then focus on managing the steam that is produced. I acknowledge that you have a compact solution, but it seems to me that a problem with the water-control involves dismantling the engine rather than screwing in a "better float module".
Regardless, I am greatly impressed. As usual!
Cheers Chris
Smoke and Sparks. Intriguing,, 👍🥰👍.
Thanks for sharing Tim.
We just love what you do my husband think’s your so clever with what you do he’s love’s all your tools 🛠 after a days work we just love you both hope you are keeping well.Sending best wishes with love ❤️.Love Ireland 🇮🇪.
Looking great can’t wait for the steam locomotive you will make
Absolutely brilliant. I had an idea for similar type of boiler and was told by too many engineers that it just wasn't really feasible. Yet to me this is real engineering. It may not be textbook correct but nothing is until you try and try and eventually it develops into something practical and useful!
Thank you for being yourself and for sharing your projects. It is a joy to see someone work who has a sensibility for materials and is skilled with his hands.Your knack for creative problem solving is icing on the cake.
Or pastry moulds on the pump ;-)
What an amazing invention. Maybe you should try to knock up a fusion reactor to heat the steam, although it'll probably take you at least a week to iron out all the details!
"iron out" is indeed the correct term: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion (grin)
A nice trick for making really tiny holes in metal, smaller then is easily achievable with a drill bit. For making tiny holes for pinhole photography people sometimes take a nail and hit it into the metal until a dimple forms on the other side, if you then carefully sand down the dimple you can make holes as small as a 30th of a milimeter(if a fairly hard metal is used).
thanks for this - very interesting
be mindful when using brass with steam, bronze is safe. the steam likes to suck the zinc out of the brass making porous and brittle. for simple tests or just every now and then usage its find but for long term usage it will be fine until its not and you no longer like playing with your steam engines you've made.... I had a learning experience 😔
Thanks - so much to learn!
steam engines have a steam dome above the boiler so no water is injected into the cylinders. If water somehow got into the cylinders there would be a massive explosion causing the engine to derail. How the steam is separated from the hot boiling water, that I am unsure of. Love your channel. Interesting stuff.
In cold cylinders water condenses, so that's why the cylinders drains were used
Steam engines superheated the steam. Once the steam is separated from the water the plumbing passes through the much hotter flue gasses (not quite in the firebox). While the steam dome does reject most of the water, it is not 100%. What little water is in with 5he steam is boiled at the superheat stage.
Also water is not fatal to the cylinders, in fact some engines inject cold water immediately after the expansion stroke and have delayed exhaust port opening. This adds power by sucking the piston backwards.
Maybe someone's already mentioned this... In a toilet cistern the float is levered near the valve to increase the power applied to the valve. In your system the two cans (the float) have to be huge apply a 1 : 1 force against the valve. You could get away with a much smaller float if you apply a fulcrum point to increase the force applied to the valve needle. Just a thought, just my two cents.
Very smart... it's all above my pay grade, but it's fun to watch you making progress 👍
my 1st thought was using a cistern too reduce the water pressure and have a reservoir ., nice job .gl
Tim , the only part that needs to be inside in the heat is the float. the water valve itself can be outside the boiler in much cooler temps. a simple linkage to go from the float out to the valve
You're quite right! Now you tell me... : - )
Well, ask sooner. Lol
Better than anything I saw on telly over Christmas!! Very resourceful engineering, well done 👏
You could also simply add another tank with a regular float and connect it with two thin pipes, one at the top of target level and one at the bottom. This way you can use off the shelf float and water in the inlet tank will never get hot enough.
You are amazing! It is so fun to watch your ingenuity at work. Thank you for taking us all along for the ride!
Brilliant as always!
I know a little something about plumbing but not enough to follow this. LOL But still very interesting.
I just want to say I thought that was an incredible bit of engineering, really demonstrating you can create some incredible things with a bit of ingenuity and a couple simple tools and materials. Very well done
It looks like exciting things are afoot! I love when you invent. All the ingredients of your steamer are so interesting, the way you tell the story is thrilling! I love your newest invention of course! What's next, what's next???
Yes, they really are exciting, I think - I just wish I had more time...!
I don't know what pressure you're shooting for, but you might have been able to get away with some plastic parts. Better to avoid them as you did, but one of my favorite things about steam power is the temperture is limited at a given pressure, and vice versa. All you need to know is what your max pressure will be, then what water's boiling point is at that pressure. You can use any plastic in the tank that can stand up to that temp. So long as it doesn't touch the walls which may get hotter than the water inside.
No not a good idea to put plastic anywhere near a steam boiler ,PTFE can be used on fittings but not internally. This has kinda got to the stage of where it would come under boiler regulations if he goes any bigger on the tank size.
The steam pressure can't get higher than the water's pressure, apparently, so around 30psi for now
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Tim the injections (way to add water) on a full size locomotive use Venturis to accelerate the water over steam pressure, they work really well too
@@MrTimb56 huh? Really? Venturi? I would have thought they just used a small pump somewhere, maybe coupled to the action of the piston. Like just a regular piston pump.
@@GoingtoHecq No, they use injectors. Have a look on wiki
Loving the content. It really makes my day and its thrilling to see everything coming together! Keep up the good work!
you could always build a brass or copper float....... by using solder or braze it. That wouldn't rot away and was used in a lot of toilets. Maybe a bigger tube for the hot steamy water as well ? Good luck
Hot steam can be used for thermal weed control, basically you cook the weeds with the hot steam. No nasty chemicals needed and the steam won't set things on fire!
I think some Englishman invested a flue boiler back in the 18c I think. Also a blast pipe and various steam dryers!
Nicely done!
Things that I reflected on that is just another way of doing it (most ways that work are right : ) are:
Some old carburettors are more metal than others, and they have the pin valve and float inside them... Just a thought.
Also: if you instead flip your valve around and make it a one way valve that the pin pushes the membrane to force it open, you could put it in the bottom. That would add cold water on the liquid side. The heavy (stone filled) buckets would push the valve to force it open when the level is low.
So the weight would come off the valve when the water supports the weight? I like it!
Brilliant idea. I don’t know if it would admit enough water for Tim’s purposes but a fine idea all the same!
My favorite channel
*@Way Out West - Workshop Stuff*
eg. 1:00 You could recycle the non-steam water & feed it back into the water reservoir, this will increase the temperature of the water in the reservoir which makes it easier to boil to steam in the next cycle.
So in theory, you would eventually reach some equilibrium of the water heat so it almost all boils off in the boiler.
@@mickys8065 This is a myth. Cold water does not boil faster. Hot water boils faster because it's already closer to boiling temperature. A simple google search will produce numerous results that explain this.
@@tomslastname5560 turns out you are correct and I'm wrong czcams.com/video/8Kak8EHAQyw/video.html although cold water does gain heat quicker than warm water, the got water has less time to actually reach boiling (and by the time the cold water becomes hot water, it has the exact same time to heat as the hot water started with) I do maintain that frozen water takes the longest to boil though
Frozen water needs a phase change and has a longer way to go to boil : )
@@mickys8065 (answer to first comment) I think you are confusing: ice vs. water.
Yes, melting ice (even at like -1 degree C) takes a LOT of energy, almost as much as boiling the water, but just heating up liquid water to almost boiling (+1 to +99 deg. C) is relatively low energy, but there is again an "energy barrier" when crossing over from liquid to steam (eg. 99 to 101 deg. C) where it again costs almost as much as heating up the water.
*In short:* every time the water changes state: solid --> liquid --> gas, it requires another huge energy investment.
As you agree with in the later comments (still above here).
@@sebbes333 no, I did just fall into the trap of believing a popular myth without bothering to actually check it.
I have deleted the original comment just to stop new people immediately seeing it and replying before seeing my 2nd comment
This is very exciting. Thanks Tim and Sandra
Nice idea and execution. Looks like a lot of fun to come. But boy, my eyes are almost watering when I see the runout of your drill bits!
Your having some good fun and entertaining us.Thanks🏴
How wonderfully clever! You've come up with something as ingenious as it is cheap, yet again- I'm very excited to see where all this steam research takes you, and what else is learned along the way. I can hardly wait for the next video, Tim!
So you might make a steam locomotive for your railway. Cool.
Love the tinkering and bodging, well done with drilling the microscopic holes.
They used to sell brass float balls for toilet valves in any hardware store here in the US. They're getting harder to find now. I don't know that this will work to separate steam from water, but for a flash boiler, an automatic feed system was a must anyway.
Tim, I know you don't like the idea of a gas engine, but as much as I love steam engines, all I've learned about them has taught me to be afraid of them. There's a lot going on with them.
And you could definitely make a small gas engine locomotive of sorts to push the carts around. It could even have rubber tires and you know, be able to go across track and around carts to get stuff where you want it more easily. You know, one of those walk behind tractors, maybe with a couple more wheels, would do nicely.
I'm just worried that a steam engine and locomotive will injure you or explode.
You, Sir, are simply amazing! Always something totally interesting to watch.
Love the concept, one thing I will say. Some of the water that came with the steam, could be down to a thing known as "priming". It's common with new boilers that have traces of contaminates such as weld fluxes and similar inside to "stir" the water up as it boils. Very common with model steam engine boilers, and can even happen with some tap waters depending on the water quality in your area.
So much to learn...!
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299
Here's an idea of a steam engine I thought of.
Basically, a big piston in a cylinder would rise and fall over boiling water inside the bottom of a cylinder. The piston when rising, would lower the air pressure, causing the water, that is at its boiling point, to boil more, and allowing the piston to rise easily to the top, where pressure would be released from a one-way valve. Then, the piston would stop for several seconds, while the steam would condense on the inside of the cylinder, lowering the pressure inside, and "pulling" the piston down, where it would also stop for a few seconds at its lowest point, while the heat and pressure increases. When pressure rises a set amount over atmospheric, the piston is allowed to rise again.
Maybe the piston would not have to stop for the engine to work. The cylinder could be quite long, maybe a few meters. The outside of the cylinder would have cooling fins on the upper 3/4 or so, to allow an increase in the cycling speed of the engine. The wood fire below would contact "heating fins" and then be vented away from the upper part.
Two cylinders could be working in opposite directions, linked together somehow to rotate a flywheel.
I don't know if this exact idea has been thought of, but probably. Its simplicity seems like a good thing, allowing it to be built fairly easily.
@@FLPhotoCatcher That does sound wonderfully simple. I have no idea whether it would work though. Can you have a go at building one?
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Eventually, maybe. I don't have the necessary fabrication skills at the moment. Or the time really, but that could change.
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 BTW, feel free to build "my" steam engine, or also encourage others to build it.
Hey just want to let you know that maximizing airflow for the wood burning section is key, perhaps using a set of bellows to make sure it is still hot, I think it goes well with the steam engine vibe, and allows you to keep the wood section small but still hot enough to make the water flash to steam faster.Loved the video!
Interesting idea for the bellows. Early locomotives used axle driven bellows (you can see them in early engravings) to make the fire burn hotter. Once they came up with the blast pipe to draw the fire they no longer needed them.
Thanks, both - yes, very interesting
Tim,
Very clever. I am impressed - as usual,
There is a needle valve on carburetors that are very similar to the one you fabricated. If you have a scrap yard you might find one for pennies ready made.
The orifice you made is quite small and I worry it may get plugged up with scale and cause an over pressurization. No doubt you have thought of that.
Regards
Frank
You're right - but I wonder what pressure is behind the petrol?
Modern cars with electric pumps are around 60 psi. Older cars were 4-6 psi- so sayeth Google.
My only issue with this style of vavle is that once you build pressure, the valve seat will have a force from vessel pressure to hold shut, allowing the boiler to run dry. I would test this design while the steam can build up vessel pressure
The problem you've had originally with the pin-in-hole design is a solved issue. Every steam float uses a float on a lever to multiply the bouyancy force. This way the seat cant be held shut by pressure(pin is too small area to push) but still allows actuation(lever gives float enough force to close)
Another issue has to do with how the hole was drilled. Using a tapered plug in a cylindrical hole will be hard to seat. Use some lapping compund and chuck a spare tapered pin in a drill and give it a grind.
I did try tapering the hole by bashing the pin into it - but it didn't work very well. Also, I won't be building pressure in the boiler - all the pressure comes from the water
Tim it IS Thrilling, from my perspective...I can't wait, thanks!👍
Ooooooh smoke and sparks you say, sir?
I shall return for the next thrilling installment then, i say!
"Smoke AND sparks" the man said, dear, did you hear that?
A length of anodised aluminium or titanium rod, sheet or wire, inside a metal tube will work as a capacitive sensor for detecting water level inside boiler tubes, some simple electronics can then switch a pump, solenoid valve etc to control the boiler's water feed.
Tank type boilers produce saturated steam, which is "wet"/any fall in temperature causes steam to condense. A single long thin tube, as a single pass, monotube/"flash" boiler, is considerably more robust for handling higher pressures, and can have the water level adjusted to make for a shorter, or longer "superheater", in which the steam is continued to be heated after it has boiled.
Thanks, Steve, but this is just the first part of the flash boiler.. (Also, I'm hoping to avoid all electronics.)
Great work, I love how resourceful you are by using what you have on hand.
You could always use brass valves. Rather than using a plunger, use a system like they do on Mamod steam engines. The shut off is powered by a sliding plate that goes over the hole.
Interesting - thanks.
Brilliant.😀👍
Im at a point in my life where my health wont let me do very much....a shame since im only 61 years old....so i find myself living life thru a you tube lense....in this i find great dissatisfaction in negative comment made by most people,as i think they are made not to assist others,but those comments are often made just to make the commenters' feel like somebody...'so please take this as meant to help bot hinder....please be very cautious about steam...the temperature and preasure make it very dangerous in ways you may not think of....that being said i must add that i envy your lifestyle and environment you have created..i think you are both wonderfull people and hope great success for you...the crowded smoggy chaos here in california make me wish i was there,but then i geuss i am also happy i dont live in many places that are far worse than here..
Thanks, Mark. Sorry for your troubles - at least there's less mud where you live.
The paint can floats are temporary as you noted. But I found it interesting that when assembled they were at about 10 C, and once in the boiling water they went to 100 C. So because of the hot water the pressure inside the cans increased significantly. Did any air bleed out of the cans at the high temperature and then when cooled did they suck in any water?
Yes, one of them leaked a bit. I must sort something better out for next time
Bottom of can can be open? Will fill with steam and that is fine.
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 As long as the "paint tin" float has the opening at the bottom it shouldn't leak much - if the boiler is static. (If it's moving then you could end up with a problem similar to the one in the Spitfire engine.)
@@vajkfekete2635 that will only work until you shut the boiler off for the first time. When it cools down, the steam condenses and the float will be completely filled with water. If you start the boiler again, the float will not float anymore and it will not stop the waterflow until it has collected enough steam to work again.
Maybe the steam even condenses because of the cold water which flows into the box, in that case it will not shut off at all...
Genius work as always Tim! At first I was wondering where you where going with this, but once I saw the float in there it all clicked. Simple and elegant.
Looks like this is this going to be the heart of the new boiler? Preheated water in wet steam out into a superheater after? I'm very curious to see where you go from here. Can't wait to see this project grow.
Thanks - yes, that's about as far as my plans go so far..
You are ingenious, Tim! But you could do with a lathe to make it all a bit easier to make. Note, I didn’t say ‘need a lathe’, as you get by very well with your ingenuity, but a lathe would help a lot. Looking forward to the next instalment. Oh, and thanks for the pun.. Les in UK
This is clever , I’m making a steam locomotive at the moment but it uses a old propane tank as a boiler ,but it has one drawback wich is that every time I have to add water I have to let all the steam out to fill it
Have a look at the boiler feed pumps that nodel engineers use/make. Hand operated ones can be quite simple whilst still overcoming boiler pressure
What a good idea. Looks like it might work very well.
Another brilliant installment of creativity and craftsmanship. Happy New year 🎉
Thanks, you too!
I must say that that is the most uneque steam boiler I've ever seen. Now if you could just wrap a chimney around it, it'd be perfect.
Love it!
This is the most brilliant thing I have seen on your channel so far, love the content as usual!
Glad you enjoy it!
Tim what about doing it a little backwards. Use a ball bearing in a cone and let the water pressure close the ball the float pushes the ball open when the level is low.
Can you send me a drawing, Perry? Wouldn't you be relying on the weight of the float, rather than its buoyancy?
Nice work! :)
Legalities (UK): You must have a water level gauge, you must have two independent means of topping up the water and you must have a pressure gauge or two. Then there's the little technicalities of boiler certificates, insurance and inspections.
Whilst it is always nice to experiment and figures stuff out for yourself, you are going where others (Victorians mostly.) have already trod and made, often fatal, mistakes. There's lots of info on boiler designs out there, it really is worth taking a look. Boiler explosions (even in water tube, flash steam boilers) are not fun. Take care.
Thanks, Donald. How does a water tube/ flash boiler explode though?
We have the same problem in Australia getting things
Hello Tim really like your channel you can use this as a steam train boiler
Beware of flap valves for this type of application, they are best reserved for check valves. Your original idea of a nail in a hole is to reduce the force required to close the valve. Once a flap valve opens you can end up with full line pressure behind it, needing enough force to counter the pressure at full bore area to close it again.
Surely you get the full pressure either way?
Tim - check whether your epoxy can handle that environment. I've found cheap araldite etc to be very short lived in hot water.
You're right, it doesn't hold up well enough
As always, I'm amazed with your inventions :)
Both nitrile (NBR) and EPDM are fine up to 120*C.
Oh and .7mm is 28 thou in imperial.
or 7 hairs/0.1 thousands of an elephant/6 millionths of a football field, in american
Simple trick reference postage costs for items purchased in Britain. Do you know people in Northern Ireland? If so get them to order the stuff for you and you get it from them. No inportation fees as Northern ireland is part of Britain. We had family over in Sothern Ireland and thats what they used to do. Naughty but nice
I suggest you look into building a Stirling engine, which could run on charcoal without the heavy and inconvenient intermediate water and boiling apparatus.
Aren't they kinda underpowered?
I mean I've seen karts powered by them but a train? I dont know about that.
Sterling engines are notoriously difficult to get right. I don't think I have the skills - but if you could show us the way I'd be happy to follow
Don't forget to make sure the water pressure is greater than the steam pressure you're generating or the steam will go backwards!
Excellent solution . Very ingenious. A Happy New Year Way Out West. Looking forwards to your next video.
a safety valve would be good to let off some of that steam
How about monitoring the temp of the fire chamber and spraying water in to keep a constant temperature? This would be fast to start because you don't need to wait for a large body of water to build temperature.
Come engine time, I suspect your water supply will not be under pressure, unless you are planning to bring the hosepipe with you! So your original pin idea may still work out.
Quite right! I'm a long way off driving it along the rails though - so I might have come up with something else by then
I have 0.7mm drillbits. I use them to clean out the nozzle of my 3d printer.
you are a genious!
Took me a second to get the pun, well done all round.
Be careful Tim!!
have you thought about adding a pressure relief valve on the engine when you get closer to being finished?
Good Morning Sir 🌞 Hope that you lovely wife is getting better 👍👌 ( I heard her voice behind you 🤣) ( I do not comments often, but I SINCERLY LOVE ALL YOUR VIDEO SIR and Fully watch Sir ) that is often forgotten about the fees of transport and import taxes ( the same applied in Canada too !!! ) 😤 Great sence of humor ( imperial measurement !!! ) You are a very resourceful Technician Man 🧐👌👍 Sir you video stop at 10:54 and nothing at all after 😢until 15:16 showing your WC Red ball floats🤣 Please Best Regards Sir Cheers 👍👌🍻
I think he forgot to move a picture to where it is supposed to be in adobe and rendered it all without realizing.
Thanks, very much RCAf - and you're right, it's a mistake.
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 It is not a mistake Sir since you learn from it 🧐👍 It as become now a life experience 👍😇 Cheers 🍻
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 FYI, you can go into CZcams directly and trim the video, even after it’s published. It’s a pretty simple process.
Love the videos and I’m binge watching everything you have put out.
great video as always Tim!
Thank you!
Sweet! Nice work!
Once you start restricting your output through an engine things can get mighty lively right quick! This is comparable to a Live Steam Yard Rail in size, punch that into your searches, I'll bet theres hobbyists close enough to your area who would jump at the chance to help with a Real Working Railway too
I wish!
nice
of course, just mounting a feeding water tank above this bioling unit will provide the neccessary preassure to feed the system on the move. You could have the main tank lower down to keep the centre of gravity low and pump fed into the resovour.
But how would you stop it flooding?
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 the simplest way would be to have an overflow pipe, that allows over pumped water to flow back into the main resevoire. Even with a more complex solution adjusting input flow, a feedback pipe would still be a good idea.
I think modern float valves might be heat proof up to 200°C. But very old ones used copper ball floats. Have you considered using a float to operate a ball valve?
Great work as always! When it comes time for building an engine have you considered the use of a "rotary vane motor"? It's the type used to drive pneumatic drills and hydraulic equipment. They are very simple to build and should have a decent amount of torque. You could probably modify a commercial one from some hydraulic farm machinery, or maybe even a scrap car power steering pump to work on steam. Can't wait to see what you come up with next!
I think superheated steam would destroy the vanes. Don't forget that the hydraulic fluid takes the heat away from the motor, there's no cooling effect with steam.
There's also the problem of condensation in the motor as hot steam is fed into cold metal, the plumbing for drain-cocks would be complex.
@@DickHolman True, you would most likely have to custom make the whole housing and make vanes designed to work at high temperatures. A few people have managed to get them to work, although I don't know how long they would work for under continuous load. I've also seen a few people using heavily modified superchargers / compressors from old truck engines, but they would need a high volume / low pressure supply. czcams.com/video/JHzQr0p6-NQ/video.html
be careful with the floats as if they are sealed the pressure inside of them may increase so much that they may burst!
Perfect English nice idea