I can back to this for Guilty Spark’s dialogue to Chief. “But you already knew that. I mean, how couldn’t you?” And “Last time you asked me “If it were my choice, would I do it?” My answer has not changed.” And “why do you hesitate to do what you have already done?” Are all very interesting pieces of information because Chief didn’t do or know any of those things. But there was someone who did. Halo 4 dropped a bunch of forerunner lore and it was learned that the forerunners imprinted humans with genetic markers of powerful forerunners. One of these forerunners was the Iso Didact. The Didact clone who fired the halo array, while the Ur Didact was put into stasis. It still hasn’t been completely confirmed but there is strong evidence that Chief is the Iso Didact. Guilty Spark was the Iso Didact’s most trusted friend and confidant. They fired the halo array together. I think Guilty Spark was speaking to him as if he was speaking to an old friend
Imagine if we had a story with didact finding out about that, ranting like guilty spark, about how there should've been another way etc. And here's chief not knowing wtf the dude's saying, he's just here to avenge a friend and everyone else killed by him.
See, the problem here is you're trying to use Halo 4's retconned lore to justify what Spark is saying. "You were with me as we managed this crisis" is referring to the time in the Library as Spark is talking about the Flood. "Why would you hesitate to do what you've already done?" is referring to how Chief already is killing the Covenant and the flood combat forms, why would he hesitate to kill more? "Last time you asked" is referring to Humanity as a whole, because before Halo 4's retconning, Humans were supposed to be the Forerunners. Spark has had 100k years to himself, also having lost contact with the other monitors. He is not well in the eye socket. His forgetfulness in explaining the outbreak procedures is understandable, perhaps even intentional as he had disappeared at several points in the Library level. His inability to discern the difference between killing meddlers and firing the rings is a part of his solitary-induced psychopathy. His mentality is only focused on his duty to maintain the installation and prevent the Flood from spreading beyond it.
@@Levy_Wilson But is it not concise with the retconned lore? It's okay to see both interpretations of what Spark is saying. But the retconned lore is what's relevant. I've only put it together in a way that fits with the retconned lore.
@@aviatorhd9389that's why lore from sequels of years apart sometimes turn me off. They're not built from start to finish when it originally comes out and they sometimes have the freedom to completely change or add details that were not originally thought about in the first installment. So we know that the lore from sequels is taken out of their asses and were never meant to be.
If you don’t consider 343’s lore and only keep into account what Joe Staten originally intended; Guilty Spark’s words to chief here are so much creepier. Humans were supposed to be the same thing as Forerunner and Spark thinks he is talking to one that has been gone for 100K years.
If you've read the forerunner trilogy and know what a "geas" is and who Guilty Spark was the line "but you already knew that, how couldn't you?" will absolutely blow your mind. Master storytelling.
I like the fact that despite spending 12 hours with the Monitor in the Library, surely hearing a Lot of explanations about the Rings, Chief decides to believe Cortana in a matter of seconds about the "true Nature" of the Rings, Even despite 343 is the Caretaker of the Ring. There is a good trust between the two.
I like how at this point in the game it took a darker turn and suddenly it didn’t matter if you were human or covenant anymore, just that the ring needed to end.
Fun fact: in the original version of CE's story, Cortana was driven insane by all the information she had to process, and she ends up betraying you as well. This is also why the level was called "Two Betrayals". Bungie eventually scrapped that idea because they felt your AI assistant turning against you would be too cliché (*glares at Halo 5*). But they kept some of the dialogue, which is why she's more aggressive/snarky than usual
Every time Chief spawns in on this level I like to pretend that 343 has been jabbering in his ear for hours, so on the inside, he's all like (how long have you been talking, also he's acting extremely dizzy) but for whatever reason he doesn't want to seem rude so "it's nothing."
Ah okay, so there's a Second metal ball with a blue eye that betrays people in a game... Other than portal 2 Wheatley, I wonder if there are any other occurrences of this.
But what does 343 mean about "why would you hesitate to do what you've already done?" is he just nuts and mistaking Master Chief for one of the Forerunners who was there when the Halos were originally activated? Or am I missing some deeper meaning? 🤔
@@miniaturejayhawk8702 oh that's been changed? I have only played the original trilogy so far... Though to be fair they never outright said humans were the Forerunners, just implied it, so I guess the didn't change anything 🤔
@@moosepocalypse6500 Lemme try to make this make sense for you...Long ago during the forerunner age there was a young forerunner named Bornstellar Makes Eternal Lasting...or Bornstellar...over time he meets the Ur Didact and Librarian...after learning that Ur Didact had been corrupted by contact with the flood and driven mad, the Ur Didact is imprisoned and his genes are combined with Bornstellar's making a new persona the Iso Didact (Bornstellar and didact combined as one. Uncorrupted and maintaining his nobility and moral compass) he's tasked by the Librarian (who is the wife of the Ur Didact, making her the Iso Didact's wife after Ur is corrupted and imprisoned) with firing the halo rings and ending the threat of the flood. U can find all this referenced in Halo 3's terminals by the way... He also befriends an ancient human named Chakas, who after being mortally wounded has his essence digitized (composed) and transformed into 343 Guilty Spark...Together Chakas (now Guilty Spark) and Bornstellar (now the Iso Didact) go to fire the rings...but Bornstellar has a brief moment of fear and uncertainty and asks Chakas..."...If it were you in my position....what would you do?" Chakas answers..."I believe we have no choice, we must fire the rings." After this, the Librarian re-seeds all of life...hiding the essence of Bornstellar in humanity's genesong...After millenia, eventually the master chief is born, John...and he carries the essence of Bornstellar in him...this is why Chakas (Guilty Spark) recognizes him when they meet and asks "Why would you hesitate to do what you've already done?" to Guilty Spark, they've been here before, done this before. God the lore of Halo is sooooooo damn good!!! and Ur welcome!
Very late answer, but it seems that it's a reference to Bungie's other games: "Marathon" They were Bungie's FPS games before Halo and they all shared a similar universe with a cryptic story. Two important elements of Marathon were extremely powerful AIs named after legendary swords (like Cortana), and the main character who was the reincarnation of past heroes, as well as a distant doom to come. It seems like Halo was originally intended to share a link with this universe, with some of the devs at the time saying that Master Chief was Marathon's hero, or rather his reincarnation. So when Guilty Spark is saying "why would you hesitate to do what you've already done?" and declares that Master Chief should already know how Halo works, he's probably talking about one of Master Chief's predecessors who would be the one who activated the ring back then. Things happened and Halo's writing went in a different direction, and now this piece of lore has been retconned to mean something else.
Do you know what betrayal means? It by definition was especially sense the game made it clear guilty spark was playing off of John's ignorance of the situation, it doesn't matter if he was right or wrong.
@@magicmildred9119 not exactly. When you look back at the dialogue, it seems that guilty spark is oblivious to Chief not knowing what Halo does and is even confused that he doesn’t. I think he believed that Chief knew what halo did since he is technically an forerunner descent
At the end of the library mission after chief removes the index, spark takes it for security, before this reveal, it seemed fine especially with all the flood around
I love how Cortana and 343 are bickering like siblings. AI truly hate each other.
Yep, probably why the “Created” got nowhere and sputtered out.
*cough cough* Durandal *cough cough* Tycho
My favorite part about this is Cortana’s decidedly unimpressed gaze and remark “left out that little detail, did he?” 😂
"Oh, I didn't realize. He is your pal, is he? Your chum." 😂😂😂
"Enough!" Man, even when Chief yells he's still calm and collected! :)
Especially in the recently shown infinite demo
Tell that to Halo Infinite.
@@samuelsemblante4308 Tell that to Paramount
@@vaderchief oh yes. The Chief Moment where his Batman comes out.
I can back to this for Guilty Spark’s dialogue to Chief.
“But you already knew that. I mean, how couldn’t you?” And “Last time you asked me “If it were my choice, would I do it?” My answer has not changed.” And “why do you hesitate to do what you have already done?” Are all very interesting pieces of information because Chief didn’t do or know any of those things. But there was someone who did.
Halo 4 dropped a bunch of forerunner lore and it was learned that the forerunners imprinted humans with genetic markers of powerful forerunners. One of these forerunners was the Iso Didact. The Didact clone who fired the halo array, while the Ur Didact was put into stasis.
It still hasn’t been completely confirmed but there is strong evidence that Chief is the Iso Didact. Guilty Spark was the Iso Didact’s most trusted friend and confidant. They fired the halo array together. I think Guilty Spark was speaking to him as if he was speaking to an old friend
Imagine if we had a story with didact finding out about that, ranting like guilty spark, about how there should've been another way etc. And here's chief not knowing wtf the dude's saying, he's just here to avenge a friend and everyone else killed by him.
See, the problem here is you're trying to use Halo 4's retconned lore to justify what Spark is saying. "You were with me as we managed this crisis" is referring to the time in the Library as Spark is talking about the Flood. "Why would you hesitate to do what you've already done?" is referring to how Chief already is killing the Covenant and the flood combat forms, why would he hesitate to kill more? "Last time you asked" is referring to Humanity as a whole, because before Halo 4's retconning, Humans were supposed to be the Forerunners.
Spark has had 100k years to himself, also having lost contact with the other monitors. He is not well in the eye socket. His forgetfulness in explaining the outbreak procedures is understandable, perhaps even intentional as he had disappeared at several points in the Library level. His inability to discern the difference between killing meddlers and firing the rings is a part of his solitary-induced psychopathy. His mentality is only focused on his duty to maintain the installation and prevent the Flood from spreading beyond it.
@@Levy_Wilson But is it not concise with the retconned lore? It's okay to see both interpretations of what Spark is saying. But the retconned lore is what's relevant. I've only put it together in a way that fits with the retconned lore.
@@aviatorhd9389that's why lore from sequels of years apart sometimes turn me off.
They're not built from start to finish when it originally comes out and they sometimes have the freedom to completely change or add details that were not originally thought about in the first installment.
So we know that the lore from sequels is taken out of their asses and were never meant to be.
If you don’t consider 343’s lore and only keep into account what Joe Staten originally intended; Guilty Spark’s words to chief here are so much creepier.
Humans were supposed to be the same thing as Forerunner and Spark thinks he is talking to one that has been gone for 100K years.
Definitely a interesting concept
If you've read the forerunner trilogy and know what a "geas" is and who Guilty Spark was the line "but you already knew that, how couldn't you?" will absolutely blow your mind. Master storytelling.
That's supposed to be a Marathon and/or Bungie multiverse thing.
I like the fact that despite spending 12 hours with the Monitor in the Library, surely hearing a Lot of explanations about the Rings, Chief decides to believe Cortana in a matter of seconds about the "true Nature" of the Rings, Even despite 343 is the Caretaker of the Ring. There is a good trust between the two.
The forerunner trilogy makes this scene so much more impactful
2:14 Cortana just ended speciesism
I like how at this point in the game it took a darker turn and suddenly it didn’t matter if you were human or covenant anymore, just that the ring needed to end.
When the Forerunners were ancient humans
Yea
1:41 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
Omg I forgot how lively Cortana is here..."THAT B*STARD...!" 🤣
Fun fact: in the original version of CE's story, Cortana was driven insane by all the information she had to process, and she ends up betraying you as well. This is also why the level was called "Two Betrayals". Bungie eventually scrapped that idea because they felt your AI assistant turning against you would be too cliché (*glares at Halo 5*). But they kept some of the dialogue, which is why she's more aggressive/snarky than usual
@@skunkstriped oh wow, I never knew about that 🤯 Thanks for letting me know! 😃
1:38 That is absolutely unacceptable!
1:41 *"SOD OFF!!"*
Every time Chief spawns in on this level I like to pretend that 343 has been jabbering in his ear for hours, so on the inside, he's all like (how long have you been talking, also he's acting extremely dizzy) but for whatever reason he doesn't want to seem rude so "it's nothing."
Ah okay, so there's a Second metal ball with a blue eye that betrays people in a game...
Other than portal 2 Wheatley, I wonder if there are any other occurrences of this.
But what does 343 mean about "why would you hesitate to do what you've already done?" is he just nuts and mistaking Master Chief for one of the Forerunners who was there when the Halos were originally activated? Or am I missing some deeper meaning? 🤔
Humans were originally intended to be the decendants of the forerunners.
Now they are merely the inheritors of forerunner technology.
@@miniaturejayhawk8702 oh that's been changed? I have only played the original trilogy so far...
Though to be fair they never outright said humans were the Forerunners, just implied it, so I guess the didn't change anything 🤔
@@moosepocalypse6500 Lemme try to make this make sense for you...Long ago during the forerunner age there was a young forerunner named Bornstellar Makes Eternal Lasting...or Bornstellar...over time he meets the Ur Didact and Librarian...after learning that Ur Didact had been corrupted by contact with the flood and driven mad, the Ur Didact is imprisoned and his genes are combined with Bornstellar's making a new persona the Iso Didact (Bornstellar and didact combined as one. Uncorrupted and maintaining his nobility and moral compass) he's tasked by the Librarian (who is the wife of the Ur Didact, making her the Iso Didact's wife after Ur is corrupted and imprisoned) with firing the halo rings and ending the threat of the flood. U can find all this referenced in Halo 3's terminals by the way... He also befriends an ancient human named Chakas, who after being mortally wounded has his essence digitized (composed) and transformed into 343 Guilty Spark...Together Chakas (now Guilty Spark) and Bornstellar (now the Iso Didact) go to fire the rings...but Bornstellar has a brief moment of fear and uncertainty and asks Chakas..."...If it were you in my position....what would you do?" Chakas answers..."I believe we have no choice, we must fire the rings." After this, the Librarian re-seeds all of life...hiding the essence of Bornstellar in humanity's genesong...After millenia, eventually the master chief is born, John...and he carries the essence of Bornstellar in him...this is why Chakas (Guilty Spark) recognizes him when they meet and asks "Why would you hesitate to do what you've already done?" to Guilty Spark, they've been here before, done this before. God the lore of Halo is sooooooo damn good!!! and Ur welcome!
Very late answer, but it seems that it's a reference to Bungie's other games: "Marathon"
They were Bungie's FPS games before Halo and they all shared a similar universe with a cryptic story. Two important elements of Marathon were extremely powerful AIs named after legendary swords (like Cortana), and the main character who was the reincarnation of past heroes, as well as a distant doom to come.
It seems like Halo was originally intended to share a link with this universe, with some of the devs at the time saying that Master Chief was Marathon's hero, or rather his reincarnation.
So when Guilty Spark is saying "why would you hesitate to do what you've already done?" and declares that Master Chief should already know how Halo works, he's probably talking about one of Master Chief's predecessors who would be the one who activated the ring back then.
Things happened and Halo's writing went in a different direction, and now this piece of lore has been retconned to mean something else.
@@ThorpenAlnyr oh he did 🤔 weird that they have changed that then
I like part Spark upset
343 Guilty Spark: How... HOW DARE YOU?! I'll...
Spark dealing with the first bit of backtalk in a few million years
It wasn't a betrayal. Guilty Spark did nothing wrong.
Do you know what betrayal means? It by definition was especially sense the game made it clear guilty spark was playing off of John's ignorance of the situation, it doesn't matter if he was right or wrong.
@@magicmildred9119 True
Yep he was just following orders, nobody ever got into trouble just for doing that right?
@@magicmildred9119 Aren't you late for your 4th boostie shot? Just following orders.
@@magicmildred9119 not exactly. When you look back at the dialogue, it seems that guilty spark is oblivious to Chief not knowing what Halo does and is even confused that he doesn’t. I think he believed that Chief knew what halo did since he is technically an forerunner descent
The one person who disliked this is an Elite going *NOOOOOOO!!!*
@Alejandro Marin Monterrubio Prophet of Truth is a suicider, killing himself with the rings
1:26 Yeeeesss
Save his head.....
1:06
These graphics and H2A shit all over any of the new halos lol
lol
Who tf gave the index to 343
At the end of the library mission after chief removes the index, spark takes it for security, before this reveal, it seemed fine especially with all the flood around
@@Normandy1998 I commented on the wrong video lol (thanks for lore info tho)
@@OrangeGuyy.-. no worries