Comparing Deadlift Styles: Powerlifter vs. Strongman - Leverages, Rep Efficiency, and Durability
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- čas přidán 10. 08. 2020
- Doug Malo posted a video of his 735lb deadlift double last week and I received some questions about his setup, since it is different from what I teach and do myself. This is a breakdown of some of the differences in deadlift setups between athletes of different builds and with different competitive goals.
![How To Build A 900lb Deadlift [Ft. Strongman Jimmy Paquet]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eO_uHIRJhec/mqdefault.jpg)
Let's see... Small amount of subs, tons of thumbs up, and amazing experience based nuanced information. Yup, you have all the markers of an amazing strength channel. Hope you get more attention man, you're spewing gold.
Much appreciated!
I love it. Best information, in no-BS format. Approachable comments threads, with plenty of actual discussion and limited esoteric memery and virtual grab-ass. I want Bromley to hit it big, because he deserves it for just giving this awesomeness away, but then again, I don't. You ever live in a town that is just amazing until it's found out? That's how I feel about this channel right now.
Smartest strongman on the face of this planet. I only powerlift (as of right now) but everything he says in extremely useful for all types of strength training. He should easily have a million subs. It kind of blows my mind that he doesn't have at least 50k subs.
Much appreciated. Still new-ish, but growing every day!
Best strength channel and instruction on CZcams ! Straightforward, clear instructions, and no nonsense! Guaranteed subs will hit 100k before you know it. Thanks for the great videos!
Stumbled across one of his videos a few months ago and promptly joined his forum and binged all the videos. Love his stuff. Especially the latest boozed up "round table" lol
Ah, so he paid you for this comment, eh.. ?
@@afterzanzibar nope. Everything I said was completely genuine. Alex and I have never communicated outside of this comment lol
he's absolutely spot on with this comparison video. he's definitely one of the smartest strongman out there.
Troutt here. Good vid. I will say there’s a difference when I go all out max vs if I was repping weight. I’ve done 500 for 20 a few times and believe me all that is on fire is my glutes and hams, never lower back. Also the torso length is probably just as or more important than arm length. Mine is comically short and thick and on top of that stupid long arms.
As a new lifter I was going to ask a question but I see you have a gang of how to/deadlift mistake videos. I'll check those out first.
You win the comment section!
@@AlexanderBromley Yes, rare to see someone check for content that's already there. Mad props to James!
Bromley, thanks for this awesome topic. I have noticed the difference with myself and hoping you can offer insight on my question. I started actually deadlifting within a program (5/3/1) 3 years ago and I noticed that, without any experience or regard to set up, I pulled in a very similar way to the powerlifter style, aggressive pull off the floor, rounded back, etc. My deadlift shot up compared to my other lifts and it got to the point where my deadlift 1rm was probably about 150-175lbs higher than my squat. After a little over of a year with this method, doing AMRAP sets with this more aggressive style, high-hips pull, I noticed slight back pain that started getting worse and worse. Hallmark symptoms of disc herniation (pain down leg, “pokey pain” in the back, weakness lifting leg).
Obviously, I had to try something different so I have re-hauled my set up with a more neutral-spine starting position in the past year that seems more similar to the strongman style. My speed is wayyyy slower off of the floor, but I notice I can accumulate much more volume in a much safer way. My question is, hypothetically, could someone train most of the time with a Strongman style of deadlift, more upright, stable, and flat back and accumulate a ton of training volume then switch to the more jerky-style closer to a meet to pull a bigger deadlift for 1 rep? Or would that be like training 2 completely different lifts? Thank you!
Thank god this was recommended to me, good stuff
7:30 The short version.
I just now realized that I deadlift like a strongman,it just always felt instinctively correct to me.
I'm interested to know where I fall in the short-long arms/legs spectrum. Maybe it will help me play to my strengths leverage wise. Is there any good reference online for body proportions in lifting?
great video for a deadlift fanatic
what about rep efficiency on sumo deadlifts? personally, it feels way easier to pull sumo for reps at the same percentage compared to a (powerlifter) conventional DL (obviously keeping each lifts individual maxes in mind). do you think it's because there's less of a moment arm on lower back/more quad+hip involvement?
Fantastic video and would only take issue with one point; Steve Johnson pulled 600 for 63 reps in the Animal Cage a few years back. I’d contend he is actually pulling in the ‘leg press’ style, or closer to do it, but it’s just initiated much more quickly than a typical strongman. Or rather, perhaps, it’s still leg driven - he has a trap bar pull of 1k+ - but has the benefit of gorilla arms too.
I know what you mean. He does use leg drive, but its over the first inches of the movement where he exploits the whip in the deadlift bar quite a bit. I still put him in column A because he's rounded aggressively and pulls explosively.
I'll take a look at his 63 reps. I know the Animal cage has lifters do stupid crap where they go back and forth between for reps or have them pull intermittently for a long time, usually giving someone rhabdo in the process
I think another reason for the difference is Strongman tend to be much taller than powerliftings in general. The top powerlifters often tend to have very short legs (in proportion), While as Bromley says Strongmen are more well rounded and balanced because of the many different events.
Give us a video about ab work pliz
Just ate Breakfast while watching this video very informational
Im in sort of anatomical limbo... short thick legs and hips, long torso and orangutan arms. By the end of a 8 week program my lower back is f'n wrecked.I have flirted with switching to sumo but I have noticed big strongman competitors seem to pull with more bent knees more upright Torso and wider stance. Would love to see more details on set up and execution of "strongman style" Thanks for the video!
So you are a gorilla? Cool! I'm a spider because I got long arms and legs but a small torso.
Most of my older deadlift videos cover how I set up and brace to be efficient for reps while keeping my low back together. Just know that if your low back is taking a beating, it's either related to position or mid-section/ab strength. Either way, it's something you can fix!
@@AlexanderBromley Thanks for the response! and for the frequent and quality content.
I often avoided deadlifts because my back would feel wonky the next day. I have always been true with the squats. I do them religiously and they make up the bulk of my time in the gym.
The horse power is there, I know it. I really started nailing the big 3 and to a lesser extent the 90 90 wall breathing drill. This seems to help my deadlifts so far
Probably sounds like a joke but Nick Wright has been focusing more on powerlifting the last couple years and he has a 2 part video series on deadlift setup and cues and it is one of the most precise and detailed videos I have seen about deadlifting and understanding the mechanism because I myself went through years of pain and horrible form and had to start over from scratch.
@@silatguy that's me, starting from scratch. Scrubbing my brain clean of whatever I was doing before, because it sure as hell wasn't a deadlift.
The tip from Bromley about keeping your glutes tight on your way to grab the bar has made a big difference
@@OlMoldy that is a golden tidbit indeed
Edgar Bennett I have gotten loads of great tips from this channel.
I did get a tip from another channel that has really struck a chord with me. When setting up for your first rep, get into position the same way as if you were finishing the first rep. Your second rep tends to be better than your first because the weight sets your shoulders etc on the way down. By mimicking the feeling of descending with weight when approaching the first rep, I feel a definite improvement in my positioning
Hope that makes sense
Pulling with a hips back position requires a shit ton of upper back strength. I find that if I try to pull like that but my back is a little fatigued then my form becomes compromised. But obviously, the vast majority of strongmen have incredible upper back strength due to the sport so it's never a problem for them.
what do u mean by pulling with hips back? like how the strongmen's do deadlifts in the vid?
First video from this channel, but you already have my sub. just because i see one in the recomendations that states " i hate sumo".
This video didn't come in time. Three weeks ago I hurt my lower back dead lifting. It didn't feel like a spinal injury, but rather a muscle pull, or something. The funny thing is I wasn't even going heavy. I was starting a new block after about 1 and 1/2 weeks off, and was doing belt-less dead lifts for 3x4 at 75%, after finishing 5x6 low bar squats at ~72%. After 2 weeks of recovery I tried doing just 2 sets of 3 at 55%, and while it felt ok doing it, my lower was back killing me afterwards. I'm thinking of taking a full month off before lifting again.I think what hurt me was how I was bracing belt less caused my lower back to go into flexion. This sucks!!
when I’m getting set up for the pull I like to split it into two motions, first setting the knees and hips into position, and then pulling my lower back into a slight arch as I lift my chest and drive all the tension into my hips. this has helped me tremendously in starting with and maintaining a neutral spine through even sets of 10+
@@joshuacarroll7046 Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely try to focus more on a slow deliberate DL set up, and back position, even when doing reps. I also plan to split DL and LB squats on different day, and just do front squat accessories on my DL days, and DL accessories (e.g. hip thrusts, light RDLs) on my LB squat days.
Yeah happened to me recently as well, also with a pretty comfortable weight, wearing a belt and with precise form. Sometimes it's just really hard to prevent these minor injuries like muscle pulls, especially if you are fatigued from work or something. I guess doing more reps in the light warm up sets, stretching daily and properly hydrating is the best you can do.
So the strongman deadlift would be better for someone running a program with plus sets like wendler, right?
Over the entire population, I personally think it's better all the way around, but you ultimately get better at how you train. I won't go out of my way to re-train someone who is very adapted to their style of pulling unless I think an injury is on the horizon.
@@AlexanderBromley Oh I am having trouble with back rounding on my later reps with the traditional high hips position. Not as much curve as the dude in the video, but it does make me nervous about potentially injuring myself in the future. So far I'm doing core work as described in your ebook (thanks for that BTW), I'm also doing reverse hyperextensions because they feel right and I do light RDLs instead of regular deadlifts for my Boring But Big sets. I tried the strongman deadlift setup with the sort of squat down move at the beginning but when I try to lift with low hips, they tend to shoot up at the beginning of each rep anyway.
smolkafilip I’ve been running wendler’s since last august, up to a 425x8 deadlift and I always pull what he’s describing as strongman style. when I set up for the pull, I first set my knees and hips how I want them (I keep my hips at a moderate height, not a squat, not an ass in the air), and then to get the slack pulled out I deliberately pull my lower back into a slight arch and lift my chest and try to drive all of that tension into my hips.
when I’m set up like that, my arms are long, lower back is arched, chest is full, feet and knees are actively driving outward and I feel my hips jamming in between the bar and the floor like a wedge or a car jack; that’s where I leg press up to my knees then expend all that stored energy in my hips to drive through lockout.
I drill this exact positioning very often with sets of romanian deadlifts, really focusing on feeling it in my glutes and hams and on keeping that lower back nice and neutral throughout the set
@@joshuacarroll7046 I will try that, thank you
I think the reason these guys pull that way is partially because their femurs are so long that they get in the way of having a good upright position for the torso
bingo. that's my exact reason. I have very short ankles length compared to femur length. also a long torso. I'm all the way bent over when deadlifting.
do you think the "strongman deadlift" will develop just as much erector and upper back muscles as the "powerlifting deadlift"?
Friend bashes on the way I pull but honestly one of first times trying to set into a "better" position I really temporarily messed up my lower back.
It's not easy to find an 'optimal' setup because there are so many variables and so many damn exceptions to the rule. I always start with bracing and posture because that is what will lead to injury and setback. As long as that is covered, the rest tends to be personal preference and practice.
I started lifting in February and have had major trouble with my deadlift
Be patient with the lift - focus on your form and building strength in your core and upper back - the weight will come
@@Logan-zv4xg 325x5. I have short arms and long legs so the high hips starting strength style deadlift doesn't feel very good
@@Luke-id1cp try sumo
@@Richard-tj1yh Sumo is a little better but I have little practice with it
Luke Saulter you can also try a slightly wider stance to reduce the distance to the bar and compensate for your arm length. This will also require a little more leg drive to get the bar off the floor.
I find myself being much stronger if I pull the strongman way, for me it's literally 50% stronger with the same perceived effort.
How would you transition a begginer from the powerlifting style to
More strongman style
With any technical change, you have to start light and progress slow. Resist the urge to handle hard weights before the movement becomes automatic. With the 'strongman style', look for the hips sitting down and back (shins vertical-ish) and try to simulate a leg press. Back should be flat with the shoulders above the hips. Width of stance depends on lifter, but going slightly wider improves leverage a bit but also gets the glutes heavily engaged at the start. You want to feel the hips tense right at the start.
I teach the deadlift first with romanian reps, with a slight pause at the bottom. because they can’t put the weight down on the ground, they are forced naturally into the most stable position as they move through the set
Not sure why you say there's a difference between the 2 styles since the the point at which the bar leaves the ground is the same - shins slightly angles forward, shoulders in front of the bar. The dynamic pull you see in strongman does nothing really - the hips have to rise and knees come back before the bar leaves the floor.
I'm just trying to work out at empire barbell
Man what a radical idea... I wonder if there are any powerlifters out there that know how to pull the slack out of the bar. It must only be taught in strongman academy
02:15 = form that looks safe
03:15 = form that looks like that lifter who had blood gushing from his nose, you know, in that video we've all seen...
Thought strongmen were powerlifters
Would love to see John Haack come into strongman and toast this guy
Dude doesn't understand deadlift mechanics. Regardless of setup, some things will be universal regardless of how you want to pull. In a limit lift, the shoulders will be slightly in front of the bar, bar over midfoot and hips at the correct height for your anthropometry before the bar leaves the floor. Getting hips low to "use more quads" does nothing to help lift the bar since the bar in this position is forward of midfoot and hips will have to rise, bar come back over midfoot...
Source: watched one SS seminar on YT
@@AlexanderBromley 10+ years coaching the SS model. Please, refute their biomechincal analysis of the lifts.
Exhibit A. This is a low position, hips down and back, shins vertical, bar well behind the mid-foot. czcams.com/video/HLmleXf5nhg/video.html
In a different approach, I can also push the knees, and thus the bar, forward a few inches, using a bit more leg drive at the cost of being a bit more bent over.
Your overconfidence with your 'one size fits all' approach comes from 1.) a delusion that SS is supposed to do anything besides give beginners a good starting point (world class lifters are not looking back to the SS playbook; for them, moving forward requires cues that address INDIVIDUAL circumstances) and 2.) a fetish for the 'mid-foot', as if it represents one precise point and not a 4-6" range that allows for a lot of variation along the chain depending on where the bar starts.
Each variation I might use has a different developmental effect in training and will be more or less appropriate in competition depending on the event I'm preparing for. I don't set up for an axle deadlift for reps with straps the way I do in a strapless powerlifting meet and which setup is strongest tends to be whatever I've been drilling the most recently.
To lead with "dude doesn't understand X' and follow it up with the notion that there's a 'correct' way that defaults to 3 easy steps for every lifter tells me you're just really good at regurgitating the last thing you heard.
@@AlexanderBromley Your video clearly shows your hips rising, bar moving back towards your shins before the bar leaves the floor....what does that tell you? You think you're using more quad in a low hip positon setup, but you're not. This low hips position puts your shoulders behind the bar and the bar forward of mid foot - and a maximal pull won't leave the floor from this position....a 5 min CZcams search will tell you as much. You don't seem to grasp that your initial setup for your different variations is irrelevant. If the setup is inefficient, your body will have to correct itself before a max attempt will leave the floor. There's no way around it.
@@ck-rd2ceEddie Hall's 500kg deadlift proves you wrong.
I would rather have STRONGMAN STRENGTH AND PERFORMANCE THAN A “powerlifter” 🤷🏽