These Characters are Wasted on King of Fighters.
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- čas přidán 11. 02. 2022
- Having Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting characters in KOF is awesome, but is it possible the series is holding them back? Yes, this is one of the videos I mentioned being in the works back in my D Arts Terry review. That's how long this has taken to finish. Feel free to disagree, as long as you're not a dick about it!
Shoutout @shinseinakenxrd for some editing help!
KOF XIV character dialogue footage: zxyu0369
XI AOF Team Ending Footage: Neo Geo Land
KOF XIV AOF Team Ending: R3D
![Who Are Terry and Andy's Real Parents? [Fatal Fury Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qp_7YD84oZI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Who Are Terry and Andy's Real Parents? [Fatal Fury Theory]](/img/tr.png)
We were so close to Terry getting a main role in KOF, Oda said that he was originally considered for the third member of XV's Hero team before settling on Benimaru. I'm so angry.
Wait for real?! Man it sucks they didn’t stick with that.
@@carlbloke8797 Yep, it was in one of the Famitsu interviews I think. They wanted Terry to be the third member because then it would be a team full of Tung's students. They switched to Beni though.
@@dyrr836 That freaking sucks. Once again Terry getting the shaft for KOF mains.
@@doomvictor3934 Maybe he figured that since new Garou was happening Terry would get a main role in that anyway.
@@dyrr836 Maybe. Though I am wondering what will happen in Garou's storyline.
Daimon with his eyes open at 2:43 is cursed.
The use of FF veteran Tung to introduce Shun'ei in the newer arc, bridging the classics series and the new, was at least a neat move in XIV.
I do wish they'd use KoF to at least visually illustrate Ryo growing into his Mr Karate self from FF Wild Ambition - I'd like to think his exasperation over the family focusing on the restaurant business more could be a step in that direction, but they could have upgraded his look accordingly too, either letting him grow the beard or dropping the top of the go- out of the classic protagonists he's the one that visibly changed the least over the years, which is frustrating when there's a great alternate look for him already.
I do suspect Geese may have more of a role in KoF stories - it would justify Hein's introduction and the fact that guy chose to stay close to Geese, but time will tell...
KOF has a problem with important characters: they present interesting bases, important problems, give them a good development and a decent conclusion, however then they decide to include them in next tournaments and are unable to continue with those stories or give them a proper plot to keep fighting.
K' was in the spotlight during the NESTS saga and fulfilled his role as the protafonist so successfully that he became a fan favorite, but after his saga ended all his involvement was limited to "we're fighting the remains of NESTS" or "someone forced us to participate". This also happened with the FF and AOF team, but it also just happened with Ash crimson after his resurrection, even Kukri and Dolores also seem to have fulfilled his role and if we see them again it will be only as a glorified cammeo.
SNK has not solved this problem in decades, they are unable to keep using a character that has already fulfilled its story.
Key phrase: "Someone forced us."
This is the inevitable problem of giving characters closure to their arcs. What do you do next? It's not a surprise that Street Fighter dragged out chasing M. Bison/Dictator as long as they did because otherwise Chun & Cammy don't really have any direction for their character.
Closest thing to pulling this off well is Kim, who basically has one long arc of imposing and having his ideals challenged.
Feel the same way. Let’s hope that this new SNK resurgence leads to reviving their FF/AOF games. And with the popularity of Rock Howard, they could fully integrate both franchises into a Garou sequel.
Yes, and even then I'd first prefer some FF and AOF games.
My gripe with MOTW (and that's more or less the only gripe since it's MOTW) is that I hated how a lot of the main cast were dropped and missed off the roster without any explanation as to what happened to them, what they're doing and without any loose ends tied up.
I'd love a FF and AOF series which not only treads familiar waters and puts the legacy characters in the limelight, but also expands their characters and give them more than just the usual gags that we were used to seeing in KOF and other crossover games.
@@JamalService2000 indeed some of the characters had justifued abscense in Garou, Kim was badly hurting by Freeman previous the game and Andy makes Hokutomaru enter KOF like a prove of his training, others chsracters like Ryo or Big Bear were in some artworks, and the cancel sequel was meant to follow that line adding Joe's student and a character rumored to be Rob Python from Buriki One
Yup Terry is languishing in the midcard and Ryo is lower mid, Joe is jobber and the protags are always the chosen ones with Kyo and Iori always hovering in the main event level.
And the USA team are forever doomed to remain in catering
This is probably why they're reluctant to revive Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury. They realize many of us will buy those games where are favorites matter and will probably ignore KOF where they're just window dressing.
@@IrishKyokushin If that's the case, that's a dumb decision on their part, because that means they'll miss out on the extra money and profit they could make by reviving those games.
I know SNK can't just survive just by KOF alone, and without more SNK IPs, the King of Fighters will seem a lot less special and more or less a routine.
Why deprive yourselves of extra profit and extra interest when you can make that extra few dollars, expand the lore, introuce new audiences to your very rich history, and help your diehard fans by expanding on such a thoruoughly expansive world? Reviving Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting will only serve as a win. I mean look at Samurai Shodown...
@@rainofkhandaq6678 Then, what about Iori? Sorry man, but he too has been in a lot of games as a guest star, especially in mobile games
@@rainofkhandaq6678 Well, Iori is in Lost Saga, Mobile Legends, Million Arthur Arcana, and many more. The first two, I think, are arguably as popular as the games Terry guest-starred in (SSBU, EX Layer, and Fall Guys), yet Terry ain't in any of those games Iori is in
This is my main grief with SNK since 99'. All up until 99 SNK somewhat updated the character arcs in some form or another, like Heidern not participating due to Rugal being dead in 95', Robert's clothes from AoF3 with the inclusion from Kasumi it showed that SNK at least tried to update the KOF franchise on what was happening to those games. But then... 99 happened, in a way how they managed to build the story without Kyo was the best TBH, they showed that wasn't bad to have a new protag after the last story ended. And the inclusion of Kyo was spectacular, the song Tears reflected what was feeling Kyo at the time, being kidnapped for 2 years then finding a way to escape NESTS reflected that Kyo didn't needed either Iori or Orochi to have storytelling.
But, this was the game to everything went "stale", why? Basically no "guest character" was added aside from Xiangfei, instead we got 8 (6 if you don't count the clones) new characters which is fine: K', Maxima and whip are one of the best written characters that SNK has at the moment (counting just the NESTS saga). And the returning characters were "forced" to be their "default" motif, either by writting or returning to the 94/95 costumes with the exception of the Ikaris and Athena which don't do shit to the NESTS saga.
This saga was supposed to include the Buriki One/Mark of The Wolves characters or at least give the proper updates to the characters but no, instead SNK was desperately beating the dying horse that was KOF at the time to save themselves of the bankrupcy that was at their doorstep. And that has been the case since then, SNK desperately tries to revive KOF, and Metal Slug with "soft reboot" after "soft reboot" which made people angry since KOF never really changed after 99 without adding gimmicky mechanics that either were ignored on casual play or abused in competitive play.
Sorry for the essay but i love SNK and their franchises, but i'm just fed up on how SNK manages their IPs as a whole
I just assumed that after the company almost died, the diehards working there dug their feet into the ground and decided to save any interesting plot ideas for a Fatal Fury/Art of Fighting/Psycho Soldier revival.
@@Carlitonsp1
Though we did at least get some interesting deep-cut additions from FF from 03 up until XIII, (Duck King, Tung Fu Rue, Hwa Jai, Raiden), (plus even more if we include side games as well) but starting from XIV onward they began to prefer to add in outside crossover guests like SamSho. (And even then XIV has a few new characters with lore connections to FF/AoF, and they technically went back to having recent guests with Alice even if she’s from a Pachislot game)
Hopefully Garou 2 will encourage SNK to be more open with the FF/AoF roster, or even beyond.
There’s also Neo Geo Battle Coliseum, a larger-scale crossover that includes a sizable number of non-fighting game and acquired properties in its roster compared to KOF, and was kind of a return to the roots.
One way I can see Ryo getting developed is if he could be like a hype man. Instead of saying “Kyokugenryu is the best”, he would see the potential in others and point out the flaws that would lead to them being stronger. He could say this to K’: “Nobody fights without a reason. You’ve got something you’re fighting for, but until you figure it out you’re fighting a losing battle.”
6:04 You and me both…I love Yuri….but don’t you think in XV you think she figured out that Ryo didn’t want her in Team AOF because to quote Rocky “She got civilized”
- The same Yuri who got kidnapped by Mr. Big…it should have affected her
- The same Yuri who according to KOF: ANB is technically the most Buck Fusted Fighter considering she can copy practically any move or technique.
She’s awesome for reasons and REASONS…but she has a lot of storytelling that can be handle in canon or in fan media. Again these characters are great…but still.
I can't believe this great video escaped me. I want to say thank you John. With that said, I am glad someone FINALLY decided to talk about this-I have been arguing with "KOF Fans" "Kyo Fans" and "Iori fans" regarding this for YEARS! Terry Bogard is my favorite SNK and my favorite Fighting Game hero in all fighting games. It is hard to believe that a character who's franchise was sucessful(AND HELPED KICKSTART KOF) and spawned numerous titles plus three sucessful animes, is now reduced to in what I see, is a COMPLETE JOBBER. The fact is "KOF" killed "Fatal Fury" and "AOF" I am so tired of watching Terry made to look weak and incompetent next to Kyo and his gang. It seems like SNK does not give a shit about it's characters before "KOF"
I want SNK to create other types of games with these characters. Gears of War style games with the Ikari team. What of Art of Fighting was a Sifu style beat em up?
I've always thought Fatal Fury 1's plot lends itself really well for a beat em up reimagining
@@JohnSexDD maybe they can do a Yakuza style beat em up reboot of Fatal Fury. They could introduce Rock early on to flesh out his character much better. Imagine Terry running around Southtown with little Rock in tow, doing sidestories and minigames such as a dance battle in Duck's nightclub and beer drinking minigame in Pao Pao cafe. They can even have Ryo/Mr. Karate 2 as an optional hidden boss.
@@BenetteG A Yakuza style FF game? Shut up and take my money.
@Jamal Lewis • Now im imagining a side story mode with Billy Kane and yamazaki. Every time terry finds yamazaki he says "hey, terry chan!"
SNK lacks too much on innovation and inspiration when it comes to modern 3D console games.
· The NEO·GEO 64 failed.
· The KOF: Maximum Impact Trilogy is basically a rehash of the cancelled Capcom Fighting All-Stars with rosters similar to Street Fighter EX.
· Metal Slug 3D feels too much like Maximo: Ghosts to Glory.
· Samurai Shodown Sen is basically a lesser-tier Soulcalibur III.
· KOF XIV and XV looks like Chinese mobile/tablet games.
As a side note from me, I always thought it would be cool if the characters actually aged too like in the AOF/FF timeline. I think that plays a big part in giving them more growth and development, plus you can give them cool designs that carry more weight since they actually evolve as people like in Garou: MOTW. Part of the reason why I personally love Terry's MOTW design or Ryo's Mr. Karate II is because it's not just something different for the sake of it, it represents how experienced they are and how far they've come.
Like imagine how cool and ballsy it would be if the KOF cast showed signs of getting older and grew over the last 20 years while new characters are introduced to mix up the young and old. It's not like they had to literally age in real time, but a lot of characters like Iori (ok maybe not Iori design-wise cause his clock is punched thanks to the curse, but i mean in terms of being less of an edgelord) and Leona have so much potential to grow it really pisses me off that they don't really do anything with them.
Yeah, I absolutely agree with designs like MOTW Terry and Mr Karate II visually showing how the characters have grown.
I think they're too scared to age characters like Iori because he's technically supposed to have a shortened lifespan lol
@@JohnSexDD Sir,
will you make a video on Ryo,how SNK ruined the character over the years game play wise?
Snk's most discriminated character may be Ryo.
@@MohammadMohammad-zf7wj perhaps, i definitely want to do another video about Ryo at some point
@@JohnSexDD I mean I kind of pissed off,
They Robbed Ryo's move set and kept him lacking since kof 12.
hell,in 15 they made each old characters so strong even Terry,Shermie,Joe and Ralf.But kept Ryo same nerfed to suck in mediocre zone.
Its highly discriminating.
Some how SNK dont want Ryo to get popular by game play in modern kof games.😢
Terry’s treatment confuses me as well. You’d think that after Smash they would try to push him a bit more but…nope. Imo he should have been on the Hero Team instead of Benimaru. That way he can act as a mentor to Tung’s new students. With the current saga incorporating the lore of Fatal Fury into the story it makes perfect sense. Geese should have something more to do as well, he’s one of SNK’s most notorious bosses. Possibly even the #1 boss(you could make an argument for Rugal).
Now that you mention it, yeah. Terry would've made so much sense on the Hero Team...Now every time I see it I'm gonna think of what could have been...
@@JohnSexDD you and me both buddy.
This makes more sense than what actually happened.
SNK always put Benimaru on the winning team.
@@BenetteG I get that but I feel like there was a good opportunity to put Terry on the Hero Team that ended up getting squandered. Guess we’ll have to wait until KOF16.
I feel the same way
If they can't revive Fatal Fury and AOF as games or If they can't give those characters meaningful development in KOF they could ar very least create a animated series for the FF universe i mean everyone loved the the FF animated movies
I hope that we can atleast get Garou 2 with some of the AOF being there.
It certainly doesn’t help that the characters don’t age anymore. I remember how in Wild Ambition we got to see an older Ryo as Mr. Karate and it was awesome, I want more of that. Good vid.
@@rainofkhandaq6678 the characters canonically haven’t aged since like, KOF95 or something
@@rainofkhandaq6678 the characters and story progress but time doesn’t ever actually pass. No one actually gets older. Ryo becomes Mr. Karate 2 in 15 but unlike Wild Ambition he’s not any older.
@@rainofkhandaq6678 I have no clue what the fuck you’re trying to say because you won’t actually explain any of your points. Time passes in real life and we age. In KOF Kyo has been a high schooler for over 20 years. Just because the tourneys aren’t yearly doesn’t mean very little time has has passed in between ‘95 and the newest game.
The KOF competitors don't age because SNK didn't know how long-running KOF would be since 1994.
Unfortunately, they gave up running the evolution of series after KOF 2003 and just made the anthology as hiatus-driven as any other fighting game franchise.
It would make sense if SNK put time-travel into KOF in case players prefer the younger versions, time-travel would also bring Samurai Shodown and Last Blade fighters onto the roster.
@@KenMasters. Don’t forget World Heroes since that series has lot of characters from different timelines.
Lol. Man, you literally just spoke my mind. I can never understand why a guy they consider their "mascot" (Terry) always takes a back seat in every game that isn't Fatal Fury. I know KOF is a crossover series with tons of original main characters, but to nerf their mascot's importance in the series is like nerfing Ryu's importance in a MVC game. Heck, even Ryu has a key role in MVC:I's story mode, and isn't just there to exist. Actually, I love SNK for life. Their games are awesome (KOF is my childhood). It's just that I want them to do better in respecting these legacy characters who helped build their popularity. Now with Garou 2 getting green lit, let's just wish SNK would push Terry, Rock, and even Ryo back as the main eventers.
AMEN BROTHER👍
I don’t understand the insistence on creating new lead characters but then they don’t use them as a fish out of water to allow the viewer an introduction to every character. If they built a story mode around the main character competing in kof and just meeting the roster. You could have 39 interactions. Everyone sonning this new hero. Terry giving advice on consumed by revenge. Ryo talking about how talent takes time and training. Or Mai flirting with the new hero just to get Andy’s attention. Etc etc. use the main character to do more than just. He important now.
I can't believe I'm just now seeing this, THANK YOU! I've been saying this for years! SNK really doesn't know what to do with or how to develop their characters past a certain point because it feels like they still have the 90's-2000's arcade mentality where it doesn't matter THAT much and that an Arcade mode with character endings is still acceptable, it isn't. Games like Guilty Gear, Mortal Kombat and even Tekken showcase clear shifts in characters and change in personality in their "actual" stories modes. Blazblue CT, Tekken 6 and Mortal Kombat 9 put all other fighting games on notice when they released and pushed the boundaries for Story telling in Fighting Games in their own ways and showed development in their characters. Soon after other Fighting games followed suit like Injustice, Guilty Gear and even SF eventually getting around to it. I gave SNK a pass in KOF XIV since they were getting back on their feet, but they don't get one here because they have shown that they still don't get it.
You hit the nail on the head with the Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting characters but this hits KOF originals pretty hard as well. Honestly outside of maybe some of the Ash Saga characters no one has shown any real growth. Team K' for example has probably the worst story in KOF XV and made me hate Kula Diamond and really didn't even need to be in the game at all even though they made a big deal about "ALL PROTAGANISTS ARE BACK FOR THE GAME'S STORY!" and yet K' gets the short end of the stick. The fact that they approved three different video's detailing and celebrating their rich story (NeoGeoNow's KOF: The Story so far series) and put out what they put out for KOF XV is unacceptable. KOF is all lore, no actual story.
Couldn't agree more with the final line. I think the fact that Fatal Fury and AOF got OVAs is a huge part of the reason they feel more like proper characters to me whereas KOF originals just feel like functions in this weird obscure overarching lore. Sadly most supplementary stuff for KOF characters is either focusing on too many characters at once to develop any single one properly or is japanese exclusive (audio dramas, manga). I really gotta see if that Iori isekai series has a full english translation yet.
@@JohnSexDD Tbh I thought that special animated sequence they hyped up was maybe going to lead to something but sadly it didn't. They need to have an "Actual" story mode next time and for the arcade mode, they could honestly do what Guilty Gear does for it's arcade mode. Have each character or in this case Team's ending tie into the "Actual" Story Mode. You're telling me there is no one creative enough on that team to come up with something interesting? I don't wanna say they are bad at their jobs but I honestly feel like I could write something more interesting. Definitely agreed with that part about the KOF originals. They should cut people from the game KOF and FF/AOF characters that aren't needed and imo these are those people
Shun Ei (Gone): KOF XV was confirmed to be the end of Shun Ei's saga, and the fans have not really warmed up to him in the 6 years he's existed.
Dolores (Gone)
Joe (Gone)
Meitenkun (Gone)
Tizoc/KOD (Gone)
Maxima (Gone)
Kula: Either age her up and make her a little serious and mature to balance out with the more silly aspects of her character, something like a Jack-0 or get rid of her)
Isla (Gone)
I think the NESTS saga handled Terry and Ryo pretty well for the most part and they played pretty decent roles in that arc. Remember in KOF '99 and 2000 when Terry seemingly sacrifices himself to make sure his friends made it out alright as he also battled against NESTS? He was taken pretty seriously in that arc. That said, yeah it's sad that he and Ryo don't really do much in the main plotlines and it's sad (especially in Terry's case because he's honestly one of my all-time favorite video game characters). Though I have a feeling that if they did, people would probably complain about them being spotlight stealers. I honestly don't think that would be a problem if they handled their inclusion well though
On a side note, I also agree about Kyo and Iori. By this point in the series, you would think there would be at least a degree of respect between and they'd come to understand one another especially with how often they've teamed up. Not to mention all of the other KOF protagonists and rivals have all had significant development. Just look at K' and Kula, Ash and Elisabeth and most recently Shun'ei and Isla. All of them came to understand one by one point or another. But the relationship between Kyo and Iori barely changes if at all.
This video is....interesting.
He aint lying. Alot of teams just get pushed to the side and it is sad to see.
Lets be honest,if realistically Terry and Ryo were serious in the KOF series they would just team up and deal with any of the villains themselves,no need for new protagonists lol ☠.
But yeah,KOF sadly suffers from the same problem that SF does,wasting characters potential and only focusing on a very few and have them always do the big stuff,while the others just...exist.
Would it really hurt if for once another team wins the tournament instead of the hero one and they get dragged in the conflict? Choosing to help the main heroes against the bad guys? My fave part of 2003 is that Ikari wins that tournament,such a breath of fresh air.I also like how even in all of its jank KOF Destiny made an effort in bringing the other characters in the main story,that final battle against Rugal was great(with the exception of Terry and Heidern getting their asses kicked so easily)
Yeah, if SNK make a sequel for GArou : Mark of the Wolf, they better integrate Art of Fighting Characters. In name recognition Fatal Fury is better known. (Ryo, Robert, Yuri and King)
I feel this way about ryo. All they had to do was make ryo the Mr karate of wild ambition and he could step away from “he’s just another ryu.” But no… they let that design be taken by Ken in sfv. His story could have went so far if they just developed the love story beyond ryo and king are too shy to admit there’s something there. Why is Marco not playable in kof yet? Why is kof always going full circle back to orochi? Why do they insist on creating new characters with old characters moves rather than just making that old character return? 🤦🏻♂️ I love snk. But come on….
Finally somebody say it.
Excellent piece. And it's been something that I've been talking about for the better bit of a decade or so.
Yes, I get it that you have original casts of characters to focus on, but you can't tell me that you cannot find anything meaningful for these legacy fighters, especially given the rich history you have to build from. Doesn't even have to be part of the main arc, but give them something
No disrespect to Shun'ei, but I just can't buy him as someone to build a saga around. I've never been a Kyo fan but at least you had his links to the Orochi and his rich family lineage, and even now he's becoming stale as hell with his eternal bromance with Iori. Solution: have them do a Scorpion/Sub Zero and have them squash the beef entirely. NESTS I thought was crap, but at least 99/2000 brought us some great characters like Vanessa/Seth/Kula/Ramon, etc. The Ash saga had a decent presentation and at least the Protagonist was a different break from the norm for the most part. Shun'ei from his design to his story just feels like he's missing something.
Back to Shun'Ei: I definitely agree that KOF XIV completely blue balled us with team China's ending because we could've hopefully seen a rare instance where Terry and Andy would've been given a bigger role in the KOF universe and would be the passers of the torch, which made the most sense since their connections to Master Tung. But nope, have them interact with Kyo and Benimaru, whom neither have anything in common with.
And also John have you seen KOF: Destiny? While it wasn't a complete shit show of a series, it was a Masterclass of bad booking, shitty power scaling, and character assassination. Ryo Sakazaki was straight up BURIED in that series, the only legacy character that was close to done well was Terry and even he was jobbed out after his fight with Geese was done, literally struggled with King and Mai, and then jobbed out to Rugal whilst Benimaru of all people was able to get a good few clean shots in. Bad booking that NRS would be proud of.
I swear SNK desperately needs to revive their classic IPs and give these legacy characters their dues, give them something meaningful to do plot-wise, OR both. I'm tired of KOF being the only franchise that's keeping SNK relevant, they are so much more than that and have a vast vast history beyond KOF to be legitimately proud of.
Moreso, they do need to update their presentation, because, despite my issues with what they're doing now, they are making GOOD games, but I always feel as though something is missing, and there's definitely that SNK hidden gear that I know they have.
Kyo and Iori burying the hatchet would be the biggest power move KOF could make...which is why it's probably never going to happen sadly.
Also yeah I've seen Destiny, I appreciate the retelling of Fatal Fury and the attempt to intertwine it with KOF 94, just doesn't work really in my opinion. Although I hate the Lily replacement for Terry (I don't think we really need a love interest to muddy up the Avenge Jeff plot) and it absolutely butchered Ryo and Robert. Like I think they completely forgot Robert was a millionaire because he gets upset over his phone breaking. Ryo on the otherhand, his only good moment was knocking the cakestand over. Jobbing to Mai? Never in a million years.
I sincerly hope SNK doesn't think a standalone Fatal Fury title wouldn't sell because barring Kyo and Iori, almost all it's most famous characters come from it. Just stick Terry and Mai on the cover and you're golden, to say nothing of Rock and Geese.
@@JohnSexDD Exactly. The logic of SNK sometimes confuses me sometimes.
I mean there's a reason that Kyo, Iori, K', and Ash aren't first choices for external crossovers, and characters like Terry, Mai, Hoahmaru, Nakoruru and Geese are way in front of the line.
These characters have such a legacy and an unmatched and untimely charm to them that the KOF main eventers cannot even hope to touch, I really wish that SNK would respect said legacy characters a lot more than just first pick for crossover appeal. Push them properly, or at a bare minimum book them strongly. FF Team should easily hang with the main eventers, same with the AOF team, hell you can make them look strong without even having them win the KOF tournament. It's just a case of strong writing and smart booking.
Also, considering Samurai Shodown did much better than KOF XIV, I think a Standalone Fatal Fury game has a much better chance of selling.
Fatal Fury/AoF timeline have one of the best lore in FG blew my mind when i saw Ryo like a true master in Mr Karate II in Wild Ambition and Buriki One, Terry in MotW and even Haohmaru like responsable old cool uncle in Warriors Rage and not only their appeareance their moveset too Ryo can do Hao Sho Ken in middle air in FF and Terry's moves feels so much powerfull in Garou, even the little details in other games like Eiji ancestor in Last Blade or dystopic Southtown in Savage Reign
In KOF keep the status quo to the max with same pretext to keep things running, NEST saga helped a lot to get thing fresh then return to the same of Orochi to sacred treasures when all Ash saga was about that, returning K everytime for the most stupids reasons when in lore he hates KOF, Ash return was well doing only because was justified and actually they give him a time out, Verse Saga begins very well making the story about Tung's new disciple and actually XIV had pretty good endings but in XV feel in the same illness circle of always
Sadly for us, fans, we have to consider FF and AOF are not the canon type we want.... And it lasts for years...
Remember when in 99, we barely believed Terry was going to disappear ? Erf... I may be stuck in Garou MOTW...
As a Darkstalkers fan, nice jab at the end. 😂
But I appreciate this thought of looking out for those who love fighting games for the characters and lore. Why I am into Darkstalkers. Seeing your SNK vids, it's really cool to see you take what you can find and work with it to think of these characters and care about them. 😊
The sad part, is that KOF is about its own original characters and protagonists, for the most part, but I can't deny, that characters like Terry and Ryo, while probably not being protagonists (even though Team Fatal Fury could be argued as the secondary protagonist team in KOF 94), could be major supporting characters, at the very least.
Have Terry assist the main characters or something similar, and for Kyo and Iori, I agree they could grow to have respect for each other.
Have them become something similar to friends, and the two would be more comfortable and willing to team up, going at each other temporarily, but merely for entertainment. They would still fight each other, but it would purely be for training purposes.
They had the perfect oppurtunity to give Terry a major supporting character role in KOF XV but gave it to Benimaru instead which made way less sense, so I don't think they'll ever go for it. With COTW and a new AOF on the way, I don't feel as strongly about it now as I did back then, but I would still like to see it happen. Still really want to see KOF's original characters develop more though.
@@JohnSexDD
I agree with you, and I also understand what you mean. KOF is a promising series, but they need to catch up, but we wonder if they even will at this point.
I love hearing and seeing your videos on the backgrounds of the characters, as I am off the same way as well, but I can never find people who enjoy the same as me.
I hope you do a online video where people can interact with yourselves as we interesting here like Easter. Eggs been exchanged or stuff like this
I completely agree with you on this video
I thought Terry and Ryo were kinda big in KOF 94 ?
God i remember playing when 94 came out thinking it was between fatal fury or AOF but it was neither
Also you explained yourself perfectly
ALSO I watched fatal fury 3 with Terry and AOF 2 with Ryo in Japanese using a translate app and the pre use is similar to the western releases
Yeah I agree!! Terry Bogard is the face of SNK, he deserves more respect in KOF!
3:00 BRUH THAT CAUGHT ME OFF GUARD! WHY?!!!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
DAMN HE THIC- 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
honestly you could probably say the same about K', they bring back K9999 but his involvement in 15 revolved around an silly ice cream amusement park joke 🙃🙃🙃🙃
another great video, i agree a lot with what you said and it's unfortunate that snk has stopped caring about their old characters and i feel like the New Face Team is going to get the same treatment if they don't change what they have been doing in the past 20 years with other characters
i always said this to a friend of mine that is a fan of SNK games too.
they throw the legacy characters too much on the sideline. it's ridiculous.
they don't need to be the main chars, but would be nice to have them at least having a little bit of more participation, even if they fought against orochi, nests goons.
geez, even simple things like the characters having more intros would be nice. for example: Terry having a damn intro with Mai would be awesome (why not? two of the most popular chars of SNK, they are "in-law", why she can't steal his cap and laugh lol)
Why Andy never interacted with Robert? Mortal Kombat series gives a good lesson about how to make cool intros and make the game world a little bit more alive because of this.
Terry the snk mascot who SNK wanted to slowly burried him in time like Ryo.
finally someone noticed this...its really sad to see characters like terry and ryo reduced in kof to losers who will just watch in the background...kof sadly just turned into your generic anime story..its always a highschooler with flames that get to be a protagnist or have any meaningful story or just someone with flames in general and I was just like you expecting to see terry to get a bigger role in 15 only for benimaru the bitch of all hero teams...just join shuni's team...WTF terry is tung's best student !!! i was expecting him to call terry to join their team but naaah it must be benimaru or one of japan's team...what waste sadly 80% of the characters are punchbags now...
This is exactly why I'm going to college for game design art as my major and game writing as my focus
Hit the nail on the head with Iori in my opinion. I’ve always liked playing him, but always shied away from his character. It’s just the same, he never evolves.
It gets stale, I don’t hate him or people who like him. But I just wish they did more with his character
I slightly disagree that some of these developments are half-hearted. I appreciate that SNK doesn't string you along eternally with a will-they-won't-they with their romantic subplots (for the most part). Andy could only duck Mai's advances for so long before people started wondering what was wrong with him. Since the FF and AOF teams' story arcs are essentially over, they're just living their lives. The Kyokugenryu clan has their BBQ and Ryo's issues with that, the Fatal Fury boys are just doing their thing, signing up for each year's KOF for fun, dating their love interests, living their best life. Their issues aren't as major as the story arc protagonists, and even they just go back to chilling and living their lives, for the most part, when their arcs end. Aside from defeating Mukai K' and pals don't do much in the way of story developments. The NESTS saga is over, their roles in the plot are basically done.
Basically, they won. They're living in that after-credits peacetime, but they still sign up to participate in KOF for the sport of it.
I definitely see where you're coming from, but I also don't really understand why you'd have some of your flagship characters sit in the background just because their 4-game-long story got wrapped up in the 90s. Hell, technically the story isn't actually finished because we never got a MOTW sequel.
There's a lot that could still be done with the FF/AOF cast and continuities. Maybe a FF prequel game with Geese, Jeff, Takuma? What happens between Real Bout and MOTW? What about after AOF3? Stuff like that. Terry's story doesn't have to end just because Geese is dead.
Also I'll grant you that K' and co don't do as much in the series now but I still think they're given more limelight because at least they were relevant at one point to the story and thus will always stick around and feel like they belong. Plus they kick it with the Ikari lot who will always be plot relevant. Ash Crimson is also back and I doubt he's going away again this time. Even after their arcs end past KOF protags are still given enough prevalence to feel like they aren't just glorified cameos.
@@JohnSexDD
To my point, exactly.
If you can't give someone which so much rich lore as Terry and Ryo something meaningful to do in either a KOF game or in their respective series, there's something really really wrong. Hell their existances literally invented the KOF series, so I refuse to believe that you cannot do something meaningful with them.
It's the same issue with the NRS and MKX and to a lesser extent, MK11, which was basically a narrative to push the newer younger cast whilst burying the legacy characters with the exception of Kotal Kahn (I can do a whole series on how badly underutilized and buried that character was).
The FF and AOF team's biggest issue is just like a lot of current and ex wrestlers in the WWE nowadays, and that's creative have nothing for them, even though they SHOULD have plenty for them.
@@JohnSexDD In terms of Fatal Fury, the MOTW sequel was in development and SNK has heavily hinted to Garou 2 being on the short list of games to work on next (in fact, odds are it's likely their next fighting game project after KOF XV). Also the AOF cast does technically have an arc going with the BBQ and Ryo's issues with that. Nothing groundbreaking but it's an arc, and the AOF cast is pretty cemented in KOF as a more lighthearted aspect of the story.
And anyway, KOF XV seems to be starting something with them, so I guess we'll see...
@@codybaier wouldn't really say the BBQ gag is an arc when it's mostly played for laughs.
Ever since the announcement of a new Fatal Fury/Garou game let's hope they give the characters some development.
And I'll be honest I would've love a AOF 4, I want to know what will SNK do to Ryo after he officially became Mr Karate in KOF 15
I recently had a idea of Terry and Ryo being these old generation masters who become secret bosses for KoF.
In the older KoF Games like 94 or 98 or 2002, anywhere before Ash Saga. Make Terry and Ryo secret bosses with the Garou Mark Of The Wolves and Mr Karate II outfits, and these guys are powerful in their own right, not super strong like Orochi or Saiki but stronger than likes of Kyo, Iori, Rugal and maybe Goenitz.
Dunno if it's a good idea but it's something I personally like.
Thank you for this amazing video. I honestly have same thought. I honestly hope SNK having more money for bigger game. I hope the xv will sell well
6:11
Is nobody gonna notice the word “P*nis” at the right?
Great video
Great video! 👍
I think you have to consider that KoF15 is really the first time since Fatal Fury ended that SNK hasn't been in crisis mode. Originally they just didn't want to step on the toes of the teams working on Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting, and then after that they weren't even sure if there was going to be another KoF game, let alone more FF or AoF games. From this point forward, they don't have that excuse. Hopefully Team Garou's ending indicates that Terry has something meaningful to do next time, even if the story centers on Rock. As for Ryo, things are moving very slowly but I feel like they're building towards something. Ryo has needed a makeover for decades to differentiate himself from Ryu. This storyline provides him a basis to reinvent himself.
They've been hinting at Terry doing something more but then seem to run it back at the last second. Tung Fu Rue back in KOF? Terry's just there. Shun Ei and Meitenkun, Tung's students need a responsible third teammate? Benimaru for some reason. Jeff Bogard hinted at returning? Never shows up.
It's really weird because they take baby steps with these characters but can't bring themselves to break the status quo either. Ryo's had a universally loved makeover since Wild Ambition but they just refuse to ditch the orange gi.
@@JohnSexDD
Also, we still got a fair number of deep cuts from FF at a rate of 1 per game for some time. One could argue Duck wasn’t a deep cut, but we got Tung shortly after. I’d say they stopped with these deep cuts with 14, which at least added a recent FF character even if she originated from a spin-off.
nah at this point terry is a cameo and he keeps on rumbing it in our faces saying im here every year or im a kof usual it makes me so angry because my favourite fighting game charatcter doesnt do anything anymore
i think the reason why they stunted the growth of these characters is also because it's legacy. like, if suddenly they have a growth in another game, the canon one might have to erase that. and as a company it might be challenge to top a growth that players like. so it is a reasonable argument to make them as it is: no growth, just a carbon copy of some happy go merry cameos.
also, there's challenge of character redesign if the character 'visually grow'. i recall Iori's chara designer pondering a lot about Iori costume back in XIV. that's only costume, what if the lore stated that Iori move past emo state, that'll be big visual changes.
OG KoF characters on the other hand, i expect them to grow, and like this video said, i wish to see Kyo and Iori character growth. i want to see they finally cleared out who's the best and end it up there, no more bickering. perhaps they can add new spice to their relation past their bloodline define them to be.
I'm irritated to no end how the Ryo has been relegated to kof jobber after winning the first kof Tornament. And I agree that he needs to get on his me karate swag already buriki one can not be the only entry with Mr k Ryo
Have you watched KOF Destiny? They pretty much BURIED him in that series.
Where does that Terry art in the thumbnail come from? Could you share so I can download it? It's pretty sick
drew it myself! twitter.com/DD_Allin/status/1492661563710492672
Here i thought i was the only person that was tired of Iori and K's personalities being summed up to just being assholes to everyone
Like at least Kukri is a funny and excentric asshole, but i cant stand those "Trying too hard to be cool" Assholes type of characters
A lot of people feel the same way for years but sadly modern SNK just dont care even with years of feedback. If they dont want to do with Fatal Fury and AoF characters do with other like Sie Kensou or others.
that ending line... yeah, it still hurts 🤕
I kinda wish we could get a new Art of Fighting or Fatal Fury in addition to KOF
I'd love if you made a video talking about the potential that comes with Team AOF's ending from KOF XV... 👺
Terry was the first champion in all KOFs, unlike Kyo or Iori they born with power (from Orochi) through generations. We yet to know who actually beats whom in all KOF fights but to me, Kyo, Iori, Ryo and Terry are in the same tier, just because we didn’t see Terry using his true power of hakyokuseiken doesn’t mean Kyo would be stronger. While Orochi is literally representing the natural earth, Terry is also able to use the power from the natural Mother Earth, does that mean Terry is able to use the power of Orochi? 😮 at this point Terry is literally the first, only, strongest hidden gem, character of all time in KOF history.
Snk must have heard loud and clear since Garou City of the Wolves has been announced
John Sex, you are right. I could of seen Ryo on Fatal Fury 3 and Real Bout and beyond as Mr. Karate 2.
If we take into consideration the AoF and Fatal Fury games... could we expect a "Chamion" and "Legends" teams for the next KoF game? Composed of Ryo-Billy-Terry and Kyo-K'-Ash. You know tge winners of the tournaments and the Heroes of the previous sagas.
Best intro xD
Are...are you me??? Literally everything you said in this video is exactly my thoughts.
dad?
@@JohnSexDD OH MY GOD
Ok the Darkstalkers comment made me cry. Man you are harsh.
Yooooo JOHNNY, sorry i have not been able to make your streams latley, school and shit y'now. Anyways banger video a usual and cant wait til the next one.
All good my G!
Hey,Ryo got better in 15.
His gameplay is fun like old kof games.
He got introduced as Mr. karate 2.
also got an intense moment with King (not love track,but clearly a strong connection between them is noticed).
Lore wise good.
also his design,win pose,entry,stance are at least a lot better than his 14 version.
I had noticed post destiny and kof 14, SNK started to realize the injustice they did to Ryo over the years,
because suddenly from the manga to kof 15,they are treating him well.
Really hoping that goes well with Ryo.
por cada dia que pasa
el fin de kof deja de ser un miedo y se convierte en una esperanza
Agreed whole heartedly
AOF and FF both are my favourite.
they are my most favourite ones.
None of the FF and AOF characters are up to the marks in kof stories.
sometimes the way they treats Terry,I gets confused whether he is the main lead or Kim?
Because they put Kim always above Terry game play wise and character development.
Terry is basically continuously mediocre in kof games by game play,where they put Kim as top tier in many games,even Andy was better than Terry in some notable kof games like 02um.
and in case of Ryo and Robert, Ryo was a lot good till 11,but his 12-14 version was nowhere near to his older versions,
He returned as better version in 15.
Robert's 13 version was trash,in 14 he had a good gameplay,
but I will crown him the most disrespected one in case of Lore,I mean he was not even looking like a character in destiny.
In kof story,he was more like a "yes man" type person to Ryo or Takuma,no story for Robert.
Yeah Robert very frustratingly a complete non-character these days. He basically just exists to smile and nod at whatever someone else like Ryo or Yuri is doing.
Interesting take I'll get back to this later
I think Kensou's story is dead and gone because they'd have to make a Chinese mass murderer the main villain of his story. Ron isn't coming back without that Saudi prince owning the company completely.
And the relationship stuff is so stupid. I know they do it because the very hardcore fanbase wants to pretend they're in a relationship themselves with the characters, but for the love of God let Terry, Andy, Ryo, Kyo, etc. get laid already. The underage Ash is getting more action than all of them.
i agree with the whole video. KOF seems stunted all the grow of each characters in it. Those casts all need their own games again and grow more from there. i would love to have psycho solider in their own 3d 'shooting' games that looks like returnal
Found a gold mine
I kid you not, I was literally typing a comment about Ryo turning into a "Dan-like" character when I straight-up heard you say it in the video. You hit the nail on the head.
Honestly, Ryo's been relegated to enhancement talent at this point, and it's heartbreaking to watch.
Facts bro I’ve loved Terry since I was a kid and to me he is the GOAT 🐐
This is one area where I have to give it to MK - at least they try to change up the characters, or at the very least give believable reasons for why the static ones dont change. When Johnny fucking Cage has more depth and growth than Terry fucking Bogard you know something is deeply wrong at SNK.
Though MK has actively ruined other characters like Sindel, which SNK hasn’t done quite yet.
not the only one..
True.
110% on your side
Darkstalker should come back in some way
Facts
My brother and I can’t stand how when the plot gets thin they insert orochi ties. 🤦🏻♂️
Based
7:04 O mai gah 😳
South town vs metro city
Given Capcom’s current idiocy, a new Darkstalkers game would sink faster than the Titanic.
And this is coming from a fan.
The "problem" SNK has is that they are too good at making great characters - so a lot of them seem to be underused.
What’s real name king ??? SNK Can’t tell me 20 Years ago
Damn .. Just finished the game with the Fatal Fury team... And I'm not happy with this... Once again 😡
I think its too hard to make meaningful stories for teams not tied to the main plot and you can't really have every character playing a key role with overcomplicating things and making a mess. That said it is a bit strange that popular characters like Terry are sidelined to the extent that they are. You'd think once in a while they would have more interesting things to do.
yup thas kyo lol
I to agree with the trash writing for the KOF cast, especially Fatal Fury and AOF teams.
I mean... character literally don't age. Athena been 18 since her first appearance. What character *is not* being wasted on KOF?
Its a shame how even kof original games have not been fleshed out at all. Sarced treasure team... nothing - Orochi team - basically nothing but, I am just happy their back. Ikari Warriors - nothing. Secerts agents have a little. Super Heroines - nothing. Galaxy Anton Team - nothing. K' team has a little something with Krohnen's team but not nearly anything to bite into. Ash team - has a decent amount because of Kurki's relationship with his teacher. The Rivals team is awesome and makes sense why they have focus but, the story is so flat they could have just been the main focus of the story. The hero team is boring af. and look I don't really play kof. But I will say that this series tried to tell uh stories. The last 2 games have just been nothing though which sucks. Personally if your not going to use these characters. Just remove them in my opinion. We are going to have Garou mark of the wolves 2 now. So ya remove the fatal fury and art of fighting teams. Saves money and we can have an actual story!! FOR ONCE.
I don't think this is quite the failure on KoF's behalf that you're making it out to be, KoF's doing everything it set out to do from the start: Tell a fighting game story with cool new characters and a bunch of Fatal Fury/AoF/other SNK characters chipping in on occassion but otherwise just hanging out in the background.
I feel like if anything's really "too blame" for Fatal Fury and AoF's characters being misrepresented it's... Probably Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting for not existing in any meaningful form for over a decade to characterize or develop it's characters in any meaninful way.
To put it simply without those games around to do their fucking job KoF is in an odd place it's actually been in for awhile with Art of Fighting specifically: it has to keep bringing these characters back because of fucking course it does! You GOTTA have Terry Bogard! You GOTTA have Mai Shiranui and Ryo Sakazaki!!!! But it can't actually build or progess them in any meaningful way because doing that creates one of two problems:
A) The characters grow and are elevated to a new page in their personal narrative through KoF, then Art of Fighting 4 comes out and Ryo's reverted back to his charactization from Art of Fighting 3 and now fans jumping in from the latest KoF are upset and confused at this reversion.
B) Ryo's personal story from the latest KoF carries over into Art of Fighting 4 but at the announcememt and release of a cool new Art of Fighting a ton of new AoF fans track down the ACA versions of the previous games and play them to learn Ryo's story, only to be blindsided after they reach AoF3 and realize a bunch of crucial information regarding Ryo and friend's personal narratives is all tucked away in a totally different 15+ game series.
This is a highly unique and difficult situation to be in and it seems SNK's taken the "Keep everyone as their iconic 90's selves so newcomers learn and understand the important stuff, if we can go more then a decade without filing for bankruptcy and make enough money we'll make Garou 2 and AoF4 to properly flesh out these characters." Which, for SNK's current situation seems to be the right choice, at least in my opinion.
No character progress, generic hero plot armor and weird taste in character design.
Kyo beats rugal since 95 and Rugal's child grown up but this dude still a teenager in highschool.
Bunch of japanese one hit a literal god.
Orochi a god wearing fancy pant with high class boots.
Joe a muay Thai but only special move is wind tornado from a punch.
Random gay looking dude came from the past start another tournament.
Tournament being the only place gods can spawn on.
Every characters in KOFXV at one point have the same cutscene animation (point there finger, hand on their hip or look away pouting/hmph face).
The only decent character design are the bosses except KOF14/15 are such a mess.
I will disagree with the fact of AOF.
Yuri & Robert got a lot favoured despite of being side characters.
Yuri got favoured by gameplay and waifu material.
Robert favoured by gameplay and design.
They are basically in upper tier mostly post kof 98
Actually despite of being the main lead,Ryo got stripped off from everything.
Lost a lot of good moves(shockingly some of his moves are taken from him and added to Yuri,Robert,King or Takuma's moveset),lore wise no personality development post Orochi period,nerfed him many times,His tier position fixed in mediocre position.
Honestly speaking they took the fun out from his move set,left him with least preferable option for gameplay among AOF characters.
Any person who did not play any kof game pre kof 12 will never know that Ryo can be a fun character to play too.
because from 12 to 14 its pretty rare to see Ryo mains,but he got good gameplay till kof 11/02um/98um.
Its more like SNK dont want Ryo to get good game play or usage.
They keep him in every games only to mock Ryu by disrespecting Ryo.
Despite of these facts Ryo had visible fan base,may be not that big,but visible and solid,but SNK dont care about Ryo and them.
Like in 15,I agree Ryo is lot better and fun than his 12-14 versions, but they still discriminated him there too,only Ryo need ex mode to throw a full screen air fireball,which Robert,Yuri and King can do without the ex mode.
A lot will tell SNK nerfed Terry too in previous games, but SNK did not reduce the fun from his move set,low tier but fun to play,and also did not add any of Terry's moves to Kim,Joe,mary,Mai and Andy.
But in case of Ryo,any tool Ryo have,which's better versions are added to Yuri,Robert or Takuma's moveset in later developments.
They kind of made Robert's move set more and more well rounded over the years but reduced Ryo's classic original move set into a lacking one with no fun.
His cooler designs and stance are not used anymore.
They dont want to change his design,want to keep the classic one,but reduced a lot of good moves from his classic moveset comparing to Orochi saga.
As a Ryo main,Its hard to stay in kof.
no other kof character faced that level of discrimination,sadly he is the main lead of AOF.
They never let Ryo shine like Robert,Yuri,King or Takuma.
I wouldn't say snk pioneered storytelling fighting games( I'd give that to mk). It's contribution is more so gesturing towards that concept.
I don't see the point of character development and detailed back storys in a fighting game. just a quick paragraph is enough, who they are, where they come from and why they are there is enough. fighting games were born in the arcades where no one has the time for deep storys. what a waste of time
You could say this about literally any type of game. If fighting games shouldn't have detailed characters and stories, why is that something fighting game devs keep striving towards?