Trouble at Rapha?
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- čas přidán 11. 11. 2023
- This clip is a section from episode 22 of the Wild Ones Podcast. You can view the full video here: • Trouble At Rapha & Chr...
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I love Rapha, their design language and "culture" embodies my style. The kits are comparable to Pass Normal, MAAP, etc. IMO the brand that captures cycling in its purest form. I miss their films, they were exquisite.
I don’t think I have ever bought a rapha item at full price
I've never bought a Rapha item lol
@@Silidons91 you are quicker than me :)
@@lomicwindwhy do people come to comment on something they have never tried? Does this make you superior somehow that you use other brands? Why do people feel threatened by it? Weird behaviour
@@neilfox9540 feeling superior because I use cheaper and lower quality stuff ? lol
@@neilfox9540 Every time I’m on the road and pass someone wearing Rapha gear I cringe and also feel slightly sorry for them.
Their clubhouse network must cost a fortune to run! Really appreciate them for it, being able to hire a bike and join group rides all around the world.
The walmart boys bought Rapha to keep it from going under a few years ago... same as they did with Allied, and a few others. It's no secret that they're going to buy Specialized. For Rapha to 'lose' some money right now is no big deal to them. Stuey uses a helicopter for his shuttle vehicle when he goes downhilling after all...
I always assumed that when Rapha sold stock at 50% off, they were still making a whopping profit on that item.
They are
@@dsonyay thanks for clarifying 😅
They probably do make a profit before accounting for overhead (staff, rent, utilities, etc)
Rapha’s quality used to out of this world and their styling was a bit different which was genuinely nice. Now everything they bring out is samey. I check the website every 6 months to see if anything jumps out at me. I have they’re original softshell and wind proof jackets still going strong and they’re incredible. Ironically the high quality kit I bought 15-10 years ago (Gore, Rapha, Castelli, Assos, Sportful) is still good so I haven’t bought any new clothing in long time. The buy quality once adage does ironically seem to be true.
That dude who came up with $50 jersey argument, probably bought Nike sneakers for $150 or over, all the time, when it should only be $80 top.
One of the things I love about Rapha Pro Team jerseys is the robust (ykk vislon?) zippers. The Rapha Core line jerseys do not have this feature. They are not as aerodynamic as smaller zips, but they are reliable, and tend to be more survivable in a washing machine. There are some other brands that do this, Sportful and Maap come to mind. I wish more brands did this. I have had many zips fail on me over the years, but the Rapha Pro Team ones never fail. I hope you are reading this Attacus.
would love to hear more behind the scenes/manufacturing/designing of Attacus. Love the cargo bib shorts. More comfortable than my Rapha ones.
Maybe Rapha would post a profit if their kit wasn’t overpriced to start with and then more people would buy it
lol 90% of the industry is overpriced. Don’t act like they’re the only ones
@@lookpro.rideslownever said they were the only one.
They turned over 118 million. People buying isn’t the problem.
@@leggie9565it is relative to their losses / expenses.
Rapha hasn't really put out anything exciting lately. Take Maap for example, with their new collections every 6 months, whereas Rapha just puts out a slightly different tone of a pink jersey.
Seems like every 2 mths now though hahahaha.
I'm on the Maap email list.. I think it's closer to every week they're dropping a new line..
Their classic bib are the most confortable i've wear. Aldo I have never bought a product that wasn't on sale
The only Rapha item I have ever bought was a pair of socks 😂
Same!
The industry as a whole, not just the cycling clothes, but the frame makers, groupset makers, everything in between has completely lost their mind about their prices and margins... can't wait for 70% of it to completely collapse.
Rapha wants $90 for shoe covers. Better them going broke, than me. #foh
INVANI is the brand making reversible cycling gear, but they have pockets on both sides. Really nice clothing
My wardrobes 90% Assos / 10% Pedaled - Assos is seriously spenny, however - incredible quality, performance, comfort seemingly holds up to daily use, abuse and they’ll repair any damaged kit for free within the 2 year warranty period, plus IMO i think the kit is classy . It’s certainly value in the eyes of the beholder, and my conclusion is it’s overpriced, but delivers on the ROI
I am a mountain biker that taught Rapha was insanely expensive Road Brand. When they came out with the mountain bike line I was expecting insane prices, they turn out were on par with some other high end prices of other brands. I finally decided to purchased a couple of items on sale and the fit (super comfortable) design, and quality really stood out . If purchase on sale to me they are a good investment, some of the items I have used and wash a ton of times and still look basically new. The other thing I like about Rapha mountain bike clothes is that they are plain, and I can used them to go to the gym, hike, casual wearing without looking like an eyesore. A Great point on the video is about Economics of Scale; a lot of people do not really understand that, thank you for the video!
Always buy my cycling clothes during out of season sales.
No way I’m paying £80+ for a jersey unless I can have custom adaptions.
Can you do a video review series of all the knock-off aliexpress Rapha kit?! 😆
I have an OG wool rapha jersey from like 2010 and a newer “wool” (really just a wool blend with only 30% wool) and the difference is remarkable. Also never bought anything from them full price.
Agreed as a part time cyclist now - my heyday was 2009 - 2013 and the Rapha then to now is remarkable. Rapha along with mountaineering brands have been let down by big investment groups ripping the soul out of what were once great brands
To me, Rapha is the most comfortable kit. BUT, I got my kits on sale when they do bundle sales. Other than at that time, they are ASSOS expensive. I would never buy them other than when they are on sale.
hmmm... prices of Attacus jerseys and Rapha are pretty comparable if not the same. I can't see anything half the price.
Haven’t bought a pair of Rapha bib shorts yet that I haven’t had to have replaced due to quality issues, (4 pairs).
Never bought Rapha full price before. Tried black sheep, castelli, PNS and in the end still prefer Rapha. Love their cargo bibshorts and their jersey just happen to fit my body better.
Charity shops around Cornwall always have old Rapha kit.
Anybody know what model is the carhartt jacket Francis is wearing?
Never knew Rapha was running a loss for so many years. There must be £12 million of their clothing riding around Richmond Park every weekend!
All fur coat and no knickers.
I bought a Tesco's own-brand cycling Jersey and put some white gaffer tape on the arm. Everyone calls me a stuck-up, elitist bellend when I ride past, so it clearly passes as genuine Rapha.
I’ve never bought Rapha because of the higher cost and I typically go with DHB since I’ve loved their quality and it does the job that Rapha does
There is a Rapha backlash simply because they have grown to be successful.
The cool kids have moved onto Maap / Pas etc because Rapha is now too mainstream and they want to catch the latest wave. The old school riders who wear sponsor logo emblazened team kit from early 2000s hate Rapha because younger, style conscious riders came along and made them feel old and out of touch.
Personally I have bought A LOT of kit in the last 24 months (way more than is healthy) from all sorts of brands and I can confidently say Rapha is among the best both style wise and quality. I also find the fit just works for me.
Using example of a simple jersey is missing the point a bit (although Rapha do a nice mix of merino and other fabric blends). More technical gear like bibs and winter jackets is where you see and feel the real difference vs cheaply made kit.
100% agree. The cool kid trend is perfectly picturing the problem Rapha seems to be in.
Agree as well, and think Rapha has also been its own worst enemy lately with several management troubles, inconsistent quality assurance, and un-wise commercial tactics (sales and so on). Really hope to see Rapha getting back to form.
100%
Those losses are really not that much money for an e-commerce the size of Rapha. They could possibly turn it around with a few minor tweaks to how they run it and the product lineup, but if they believe in the strategy they might stick with it for a while longer. And take the loss.
Rapha is probably the best brand at creating a connection with the customers, through RCC and the community.
The numbers showed their costs to revenue is fine. Just a drop in brand equity/goodwill. ie. Tax dodging.
I love Sisu - Pedal The Pain, great quality with same materials as other brands but for better prices.
I bought a Rapha bervet bib short in 2022 Dec, and the stitching connected to the pads actually come lose in 2023 Jun, not the quality you would've expect when purchasing a $200 bib short. (Luckily they do send me back a coupon voucher, the after-sale service is top-notch in Rapha.)
Plus the back pocket on their jersey isn't that strong, they do wear overtime (core & lightweight jersey), on the proteam series it doesn't have this problem.
I have one Rapha kit, all of my other stuff is strictly Ostroy.
Mad to try and cool guy Rapha when it single-handedly changed road cycling.
If you started road cycling within the last 15 years you have literally no idea how road cycling figuratively and literally looked pre Rapha.
Def a difference between core and classic and pro. All core stuff I bought I ended up returning. Wasn't good enough
I make little Rapha transfers to apply to my kits. I save a lot of money by doing that.
You can always find what you need on sale at some point...but it's not like these other boutique brands are super obtainable. Rapha has maintained their classic designs and colorways, and I appreciate that. Everyone after them has had a go at copying them. I do wish they would always have certain items in stock - like stock colors in each line. I really want to get a new pink Classic jersey, but have yet to see it. Why do seasons so hard? It's a global marketplace.
To add to your discussion on the cost of a cycling jersey I would note that compared with a running shirt, the complexity to manufacture a cycling jersey is significantly more time intensive and costly. Additional seams and stitching for panels, back pockets and a full zip front add so much more time to construct. Its very time consuming to do a full length zipper and have everything match up, more time for a hidden zipper construction. That all comes down the sewing minutes in production and at some point the efficiency of larger volume runs out and it just comes down to manufacturing time. Depending on the country of origin and import location a manufacture can be paying up to a 30% import duty on every jersey just to bring it to market. Also running historically is just a simpler and more cost effective sport so runners are use to spending less compares with cycling on gear. A $200 pair of running shoes might be pretty high end but for cycling that would be a mid level.
accounting nailed it - “hobby business “ to avoid corporate taxes / taxes
Mysteriously all the other brands eg maap or cafe du cycliste are the same price or more. Assos were always premium but now others aspire to that. Rapha makes great stuff but the range is too big. Ebay is often where I get mine.
Would you make a video how hard or how difficult is it to design a cycle in Jersey and how to repair one if you got one favourite cycle in Jersey Means a Lot to You and would you make a rating of all the pros cycle in Jersey
Rapha ‘loses’ a lot of potential customers because of ridiculous marketing claptrap, they make cycling kit! It wouldn’t need to be so expensive if they didn’t waste money on all the BS. A cycle clothing company talking about being ‘inclusive’ when selling its average kit at ‘very exclusive’ prices is distasteful. I bet they don’t give away much to the poor kids no one has ever heard of, just the hangers on.
Lots of these items are coming out of Vietnam. Buy cheap, sell high.
I spent my $ on Le Col since parted with Rapha after the acquisition...
I knew rapha was in trouble when they took away their US distributor
I'm intrigued on a similar conversation but taking into account aspects like Gore Tex. Castelli Gabbs for instance was a game changer. Are there lesser brands that do something that is equally brilliant but half the price?
Well yes you can get Sportful gear for cheaper that also uses the brilliant GTX Infinium (windstopper) membrane
Sportful Fiandre Pro stuff is similar to Castelli Gabba and very decent, often can be found on sale. Ale Klimatik gear is the same idea and often found at a very reasonable price also.
Overpricing of kit they design to only last 1 season. Follow it up with dogshit customer service and failing to honor repair promises . It’s not a shock the consumers are going elsewhere.
Rapha is one of the brands I like but not have stuff by yet. Same for MAAP and Pas. I don‘t like the uber-presentation of them on social media. These cycling brands have become fashion which is fine for me but I want stuff made for cycling foremost.
Specialized, POC and Café du Cycliste are my go-to’s atm. You can blame me for Specialized but their stuff is often of good quality and sizing is on spot for me. 🙃
Maap stuff isn’t bad, got some pieces. But the funky off tone colours of a lot of the stuff is not generally to my taste. POC make quality helmets for sure; have a few of them. Never tried any of the Cafe du Cycliste stuff. Is it any good? Best bang for buck on a budget is Ale I think. Castelli for mid range is also excellent. Assos if you want to push the boat out and sample the very best. If you shop around e.g. the Black Friday sales you can pick up some very decent stuff from all 3 of these brands at a reasonable price, or alternatively keep an eye on EBay often can save you plenty of £ also. Have picked up plenty of bargains there over the years.
current brand that is extream expensive is PNS & ASSOS
For the prices they charge they should be in charge. Their prices are ridiculous
Most of Biehler is made in Germany, better than China.
Bought a RApha branded belt a few years ago in their team colours made by Anderson in Italy- nice piece.
Rapha gets slammed but lots of cycling companies are overpriced maap,pas normal,cafe du cyclist naming a few! Castelli endura and sportful are expensive but always a good sale.also forget assos 😂
Maap are the only ones doing high quality race fit long sleeve jerseys for hot conditions, so I pretty much have no options. :D
Assos pisses all over the lot of them in my view and the high price tag is justified. I have some nearly 20 year old Assos jerseys and jackets which are still in great condition and perform superbly. And their bib shorts are easily the most comfy I’ve ever worn, and I’ve tried them all pretty much apart from Rapha (which I wouldn’t buy on point of principle). For innovative design and materials and quality Assos lead the way. And apart from Castelli they were around way before all those other brands you mention, and will likely be there long after they are gone also.
Paddy glad you can enjoy Assos and afford they're products especially when most people are struggling to pay their bills and put descent food on the table! Cycling has turned into a very expensive hobby,with bike brands charging silly prices for plastic bikes ,wheels and garments.
@@daniellovett6213The fact that you have decided to direct a personal comment at me in some sort of attempt to virtue signal or shame says more about you. All I am doing is talking about cycling clothing, but you have decided to go off topic and to make it personal. If you can’t be civil and keep this on topic instead of being sanctimonious and condescending towards others with snide personal comments then that is your problem.
@@paddyotoole2058 OK so you've never tried Rapha but because you like you're 20 year old Assoss jacket then they must be shit. I see.
=( Rapha is so good I hope they stay for many years to come. their core gear is really great quality and not too bad
I always wear thrift store close for cycling.
Started buying Rapha in 2009 because of their City Kit & great accessories - never purchased any of the "spandex" kit. Now that it's primarily poser race kit/spandex I've been done for some time (2018). Broadening the market (targets) again would increase sale again - IMHO. I really miss the old company style & diverse culture...
My experience is the quality is not that good for the price and hype. Won't be buying anymore in the future
I don’t know why Rapha doesn’t do preorder. Cuts down on waste. Some sizes are more popular than others. Some styles are vastly more popular .
if course, Rapha is more expensive...it's with all the "premium" brands, dude...why is audi more expensive vs VW???
Rapha are definitely not the company they used to be. They used to be special. The styling, the quality of fabrics, the detailing - they have all been watered down since the acquisition. They lost a lot of staff, including senior management, who I gather became disillusioned with the company. It is hard to say their gear is over-priced compared to many other brands now, but I think they followed Rapha's model, not the other way round. They're trying to appeal to everyone on a bike now and there's not much to get excited about. I have got a lot of Rapha gear I wear a lot, but it's mostly from earlier years. £ for £ I think Assos is way better and ironically they have toned down their gear to appeal to Rapha fans.
i wrote off Rapha when they criticized Chloe Dygert for "liking" a common sense conservative social media post that occurred years prior to her affiliation with Rapha. They made her apologize (which was totally unnecessary), then publicly said her apology was not sufficient!
Will attacus be returning?
When I had my Cervelo S5 I use to buy this brand cycling items then my bike got stolen over 3 years ago
The Rapha problem isn’t the price, exactly, it’s the fact that it appeals to yuppies. Yuppies are about as far from traditional cycling roots as you can get.
I guess I have never bought something from them at full price. Is not that they don't have nothing worth its price tag, I mean their MTB shirts are the best on the market IMO, they fit prefectly thanks to the many size options, they don't turn you into a highlighter or a billboard ad on wheels, the fabric is light, breathable, yet resistant af, and the cherry on top is the extra fabric you get with it and the free repairs. The customer service is awesome as well. That being said, there is a lot of other products that are extremly overpriced, and it shows, this is especially noticeable in the road department. This is mostly because what they are offering is not as exclusive as it was before, they aren't innovating, you can get similar products from other brands, albeit not with the same size range but still at 1/3 of Rapha's price.
Edit: oh yes, and the shipping costs are stupidly high, at least in Europe. 10€ for shipping a piece of cloth inside an envelope? give me a break
Re price: all cycling stuff is overpriced now. But yea some of the jackets are stupid money. £300 for a rain coat. Same can be said running and climbing / rambling gear tho. People pay the prices so companies will keep increasing the price. Not sure I agree on the quality difference in pricing; some gear is made of more natural products and the cheaper ones are mostly polyester / plastic which makes you sweat more. They should really make full merino jerseys it’s such a superior material.
Can't go past a multicoloured Attacus jersey tbh
I have a fair amount of high end gear (Assos, Castelli etc) but never once even considered buying Rapha stuff. Don't know why, its just never interested me.
Oh Paddy,so sensitive! As I said I'm glad you're enjoying your Assos clothing,really.If it works for you.Great ,I'm jealous,and only wish I could try £200 bib shorts! If I was having a go at anyone it's the cycle clothing companies who charge ridiculous prices.😢
Oh yeah, sure. I get it. Make a backhanded / snide personal comment to someone, and then accuse them of being “too sensitive” when they call you out on it. Talk about toxic / gaslighting behaviour. Classic narcissist projection.
Not only Rapha but lots of bike labels are over priced.
Bellwether’s where it’s at.
I didn’t want to buy anything rapha cause of them being connected to legion
Whats the issue with legion?
I have no clue about us cycling, so its really a genuine question.
@@Eyproshit the goal of increasing diversity and inclusion in cycling.🧚
@@redauwg911 can we get some diversity in basketball? No prob there. I'm biracial. Race play makes me nauseous
@@puckloki873 I'd like to see more short people in basketball. Perhaps some dwarves.
@@EyproshitDeliberately riding opponents off the track, abusive, not paying prizes of the event they promoted, acting like world champions when they are just US crit racers.
I used to love Rapha but the last few years the quality has turned me away. Every bib produces a hole in 5-10 rides. Less sales. I no longer purchase from them. At their price points the decrease in quality alone is enough to buy elsewhere. There are too many good options to put up with this.
It doesn’t matter whether Rapha produces ecologically, in Europe or anything else. A jersey never costs 160-250€. This whole industry is simply criminal, everything about bicycles. I bought a lot from Rapha. The quality is top. But the customer service is the worst I have ever experienced in my life.
Never bought Rapha , sorry overpriced for all the retired doctors and lawyers , not value for money.
These cycling apparel companies are just too expensive. I don't know how any of this is sustainable. Not gonna lie some of the CZcamsrs are to blame. There are companies in NYC selling winter jerseys for 410 usd and paper thin summer jerseys for over $200. Its crazy to me.
I've avoided going for Rapha - it feels like the name is more important than the tech/quality. Wearing it feels a bit chav.
Chav? 😂What on earth are you talking about?
@@neilfox9540 Common as muck and cheap feeling - a bit like Burberry
I didn't jump on the Rapha goo goo train, hey look at me I'm wearing Rapha, so I'm with the cool crowd, that's not for me. The most $$$ that I have spent at a Rapha shop was at their UNION street store in San Francisco for a over priced cold cup of coffee. Current day bicycle industry is totally wacked out, 10K plus carbon bicycle that will die well before my 40 year old serviceable steel rigs will and for sures I'm not dropping 8 bills plus for a kit, simply not happening.
Rapha overcharged their clients...so
Glad, now that I know who owns Rapha, that I wear Assos. Mostly.
The quality of their jerseys has diminished massively
Yeah its psychology, if i wear expensive jersey and expensive bike my wife should allow me to ride😅
Speaking of having to make sacrifices and chances, they just sacrificed their US staff.
When running a buisness, profit is very subjective
People have been buying image, and dreams, without understanding the whole mechanism behind it. There is nothing behing polyester, or elastine in 90% pricyts. But if you buy Swiss x-bionic, Made in Italy with a packaging explainig in 20 illustrations, technology, science, quality and a difference paying top price, you know what you're paying for. See their awards! I buy proven products.
I wear Armani when I ride. Much more expensive and exclusive than Rapha! Cycling jersies are only expensive because cyclists are idiots and prepared to pay well over the odds. Decathlon jersies are great. I wear one of those when the Armani is in the wash. Can't wear Decathlon in Richmond Park though. I'd be called a "scumbag peasant" and spat at.
I thought Rapha was bought by LVMH. If that's the case it's not Armani but under the same roof as Louis Vuitton.
@@jochenkraus7016 No, it's owned by an investment fund run by a Walmart heir. Hmm, classy... I'm sticking to my Armani and Decathlon.
Imagine drop shipping clothing highly overpriced, getting trended by bike riders and still making a loss... Guess the wage of the top Managers there for doing a shitty ass job
I like rapha .. and now finding ornot to be very cool. Ornot is SF based
Maybe not you but a brand in a size like rapha, santini, castelli or pearl izumi, their cost with all that finishing shouldn’t be more than $15 if you consider any US fitness brand sells any type of technical garment as such as dry fit for 10usd in outlets and still make money. Bibs different story but Jersey is not a rocket science to produce let’s accept the fact
Rapha sucks because it’s too expensive.
That’s not the only reason.
But, it is twice as nice as Rapha
stuff like heavy pedal is infinitely better
Brand feels tired. Nothing exciting has exciting has happened for 10 years. Boutique to mass indy banality.
Look at the cash flow statements and see what is happening. Send me the accounts I will look through them.
trek is selling rapha now, is trek buying rapha ? 🤔
Long time Rapha wearer of the more traditional designs. I think they've lost their way with all of these rubbish design exercises - you see how much of it ends up in their archive sale and you can see where some of those losses are coming from.
Poor Rapha. I don't wear any Rapha but I do have a hoodie and sweater and they are great. I wouldn't be caught wearing their cycling kit though as it's a noobie brand.
If you're new to cycling then by all means get your toes into "expensive" cycling kits and try a Rapha jersey.
Totally agreed. Wouldn’t be seen dead in their gear either. Rapha are a total noob cyclist poseur brand. It also seems to attract a certain impressionable personality type, who think they are superior and like to stand around cafes thinking they look well cool, and also think that other people think they look cool, when in actual fact everyone thinks that they look like something which rhymes with total Bankers. Underneath that cool exterior though they are actually very emotionally volatile and easily triggered if you ever dare to slag off the Rapha brand. Sad really.
Rapha went woke...started virtue signaling, subtly shaming their client base, I started buying other brands. You're welcome
Smaller brands gotrlta get more love. People do love to attach themselves to nonsense brands like Rapha though... over paying for nothing special.
Which smaller brands