Kudos to finishing! Mentally having to push through to the end when you know you aren't feeling and doing well is probably the hardest thing about that race.
thank you! right now we are working on "extension" so increasing mileage, vert and long runs (for Speedgoat 50km and UTMB). It's honestly a bit tricky with the added stress (and high altitude), but that balance is always the art and science behind training. I'm just trying to optimize my breathing (while also working the muscles and tight back spots). Using poles and a hydration pack too.....more to come 🙌!
I've dropped out of running due to injuries, but I've kept your channel. I'm always impressed by your efforts and honesty when racing - especially as a sponsored pro. Keep it up 👍
So sorry you had to be in so much pain during that race. Way to power thru to the finish though! Sending you positive and healing vibes for the lingering symptoms of the PE. I'm looking forward to following your training and progress for UTMB. Good luck at Speedgoat!
Thanks for your report and sorry that it didn't go the way you wanted. Yes it was a tough day. And thanks for taking the time the day before to give me some tips about what to wear and with drinks. I met you in the gift shop. Also went poorly for me, instead of 1:50s I was over 2 hours and almost fainted before finishing, I was weaving from side to side...maybe dehydration???
hey great to meet you as well and congrats on the finish! It sure was a tough one (can relate to those feelings). Did you get cold? The wind was certainly quite strong and chilly up there. Given the duration (2 hours) it could have been dehydration or fueling (given the work output to climb over 4700'). Altitude effect is also there perhaps?
@@ricodelavega4511 For sure. But for "short distance" (i.e. sub ultra) mountain running I think it's a bit of a different ball game in the master's categories (i,e over 40). Runners tend to have better longevity in the longer ultramarathon events (even for some in their 40s and 50s being competitive). I'm hopefully trying to extend my longevity, but I do feel like the Pulmonary Embolism suddenly aged me about 15 years 🤣
It was my experience last year at Mount Washington that I realized the value of speed work even for an uphill race like this. I was lacking in that department even though I was getting plenty of vertical (10-12k a week for several weeks) mostly on treadmill. I also have to admit that it’s not getting any easier the older I get 😅
it's a certainly a high intensity a "fully runnable" kind of climb. I almost feel like i was better off living and training and sea level for that one (to generate more power on the treadmill and actually doing "over-speed" climbs at like 8-9mph at 10-12% grade. I'm also a lot older now!
Great recap and scenery...I seem to be having the same issue with high breathing rate, but low heart rate. It's like my body lost the ability to push itself 🤷♂️
Unfortunately I'm not sure what the root cause is. I have had a significant steady decline in performance over the last 1.5 years. Based on some of your videos from a while back it seemed to mimic what you were going through before you were diagnosed. I did research PE but it doesn't seem to line up exactly for me. Blood draw is up next...
Great recap and good result for Mt Washington. Sorry to hear about the breathing and wind can be intense there. Out of curiosity, what kind of time did you get on similar distance and incline with the treadmill?
i never time trial the full distance on the treadmill. Unfortunately for my treadmill workouts I had very few shorter workouts over 7.0mph and 12% grade. Part of it is that the intensity is too hard for me where I live at 7500' and it was super hot in my garage. In hind sight (back when I ran my best Mt. WA of 58-min) I used to easily be able to do 3-4 miles at 7.6mph at 12% grade (and even a workout all-out of 1.99 miles or about 7.5mph on a 15% for 15-min)....but that was 12 years ago and at sea level!
I appreciate your honest recaps, as always. Could you say more about the science behind the low heart rate? What was keeping you from getting the HR above 160?
honestly I don't have all the answers (could be from lots of things). Sometimes the legs/muscles can be overtrained and tired and make it hard to pull out 100% with the heart and lungs. For me, knowing my Max HR is probably only mid 170s now, 160 is still pretty high. But I do think 157 (since I averaged that for 2.5 hours at Honolulu) is a bit low. Given my lung function and tests after the PE it could be from altered breathing mechanics or another limiting factor (with blood flow in my lungs). The scar tissue and damage in the lungs certainly doesn't help...but I do think my heart is strong (pretty high stroke volume). There are also genetic factors at play with HR dropping with age. All I know is if I can get the HR up into the 160s I'm running a lot better/faster!
9:18, very interested to hear about possible form changes, seems people are talking about that less these days, but i still think it's worth thinking about. My own experience is probably worthless to someone at your level, but it's never stopped me before. I trained somewhat for a recent marathon, but no harder than others in recent years which were all failures. I'm old and usually exhausted, but this race was a walk in the park. Shitty as it is to say, but it's so gratifying to see much younger fitter and stronger runners fall away over the course of 26 miles because their form is obviously making them work too hard. It's so tricky getting the posture and upper body right, but that's the key. But what is "right"? I find it endlessly fascinating, and since my focus is feeling good and easy I just keep on going while others I've known along the way burn out and lose interest
thanks for sharing your story and stay tuned! I think a lot does depend a bit on individual genetics/anatomy....but there are some common themes often!
Sage, shortness of Breath usually does NOT come from the lung! It comes from the heart! I suspect the effects you feel from the PE are more from the heart than from some scar tissue inside your lung. The lung also does not have pain receptors, the parenchyma, only the pleura and the bronchi and the thoracic cavity has pain receptory, hence why people even smoke. Yes the lung has stretch receptors and chemoreceptors, hence why smoking is uncomfortable and you cough and hence why you can not breathe in indefinitely. I'm saying this because I believe a different perspective could help. I feel like you perceive the damage as done and irreversible, which it is not. It is NOT from the lung, but from the heart, and that one can adapt much more than the lung. Google shortness of breath, acute coronary syndrome and these things. It's not the lung, it's the heart. I promise. (A PE putsenormous strain on the right ventricle and if one even does endurance training while at it, it's even more stress, cor pulmonale is a diffferent thing but nevertheless interesting how a similar pathology also causes shortness of breath)
Are you a doctor? So for context I had some extensive testing done over the years since my PE including 3 ultrasounds of my heart, a pulmonary angiogram, a perfusion lung scan, multiple CT contrast scans, a right heart catheterization etc. They were worried a bit about pressure on the pulmonary artery, chronic clots, and CTEPH....but generally decided that my heart was 100% fine and that only blood flow in the lung was maybe a limiting factor.....the scar tissue around the pleura certainly hurts and "catches" I think? Not sure if there was some vascular remodeling or breathing pattern issues from having the PE for so long. Could be a blood flow/gas exchange problem still I guess?
@@MNP208 I mean I see where they are coming from with the heart strain (and that's why I had my heart tested so much last year....and probably will monitor it with another ultrasound within the next year), but from what I see (in genera) something like "acute coronary syndrome" is generally caused by plaque (fatty deposits) and I don't think I have that as I don't eat any animal fat or have bad cholesterol/triglyceride numbers. The pain is likely in the pleura area as well (for the lungs). My biggest concern is still more blood flow in the lungs and possible micro clots (chronic) or high pulmonary artery pressure from blood vessel damage/narrowing (Which is why I had a right heart cath last year). The heart seems to be clear of defects, but of course the big concern is if there is strain on that right side of the heart.
@@Vo2maxProductions There is also something called “referred pain”. One example is that acid reflux can feel Ike chest pain,etc. Ask about chances of referred pain the next time you go in for a visit.
Kudos to finishing! Mentally having to push through to the end when you know you aren't feeling and doing well is probably the hardest thing about that race.
Ur still 🤯 fast Sage !!! I’m sooo happy to see you out running and racing again and enjoying the trails !! Times don’t matter !!!✌️
Salute to you for fighting through all that bro!
Wish you a great race at Speedgoat Sage!
Solid and Noble Effort…. wind, dude…that hurts time trialing hard… well done!
GG Sage excited to hear about the training evolves!
thank you! right now we are working on "extension" so increasing mileage, vert and long runs (for Speedgoat 50km and UTMB). It's honestly a bit tricky with the added stress (and high altitude), but that balance is always the art and science behind training. I'm just trying to optimize my breathing (while also working the muscles and tight back spots). Using poles and a hydration pack too.....more to come 🙌!
I've dropped out of running due to injuries, but I've kept your channel. I'm always impressed by your efforts and honesty when racing - especially as a sponsored pro.
Keep it up 👍
🙌
So sorry you had to be in so much pain during that race. Way to power thru to the finish though! Sending you positive and healing vibes for the lingering symptoms of the PE. I'm looking forward to following your training and progress for UTMB. Good luck at Speedgoat!
thank you! hope you are doing well too
Thanks for your report and sorry that it didn't go the way you wanted. Yes it was a tough day. And thanks for taking the time the day before to give me some tips about what to wear and with drinks. I met you in the gift shop. Also went poorly for me, instead of 1:50s I was over 2 hours and almost fainted before finishing, I was weaving from side to side...maybe dehydration???
hey great to meet you as well and congrats on the finish! It sure was a tough one (can relate to those feelings). Did you get cold? The wind was certainly quite strong and chilly up there. Given the duration (2 hours) it could have been dehydration or fueling (given the work output to climb over 4700'). Altitude effect is also there perhaps?
Sandi coming in hot with the Joe Gray reminder/pep talk. He's an absolutely 1 of 1 masters runner at those short distances. Keep up the training!
she shouldve thrown in Jeff Browning and Ludovic Pommerat
@@ricodelavega4511 For sure. But for "short distance" (i.e. sub ultra) mountain running I think it's a bit of a different ball game in the master's categories (i,e over 40). Runners tend to have better longevity in the longer ultramarathon events (even for some in their 40s and 50s being competitive). I'm hopefully trying to extend my longevity, but I do feel like the Pulmonary Embolism suddenly aged me about 15 years 🤣
Strength in adversity you have it in spades Sage it's aspirational 💪
🙌
It was my experience last year at Mount Washington that I realized the value of speed work even for an uphill race like this. I was lacking in that department even though I was getting plenty of vertical (10-12k a week for several weeks) mostly on treadmill. I also have to admit that it’s not getting any easier the older I get 😅
it's a certainly a high intensity a "fully runnable" kind of climb. I almost feel like i was better off living and training and sea level for that one (to generate more power on the treadmill and actually doing "over-speed" climbs at like 8-9mph at 10-12% grade. I'm also a lot older now!
Great recap and scenery...I seem to be having the same issue with high breathing rate, but low heart rate. It's like my body lost the ability to push itself 🤷♂️
sorry to hear. Did you have a PE also?
Unfortunately I'm not sure what the root cause is. I have had a significant steady decline in performance over the last 1.5 years. Based on some of your videos from a while back it seemed to mimic what you were going through before you were diagnosed. I did research PE but it doesn't seem to line up exactly for me. Blood draw is up next...
Great recap and good result for Mt Washington. Sorry to hear about the breathing and wind can be intense there. Out of curiosity, what kind of time did you get on similar distance and incline with the treadmill?
i never time trial the full distance on the treadmill. Unfortunately for my treadmill workouts I had very few shorter workouts over 7.0mph and 12% grade. Part of it is that the intensity is too hard for me where I live at 7500' and it was super hot in my garage. In hind sight (back when I ran my best Mt. WA of 58-min) I used to easily be able to do 3-4 miles at 7.6mph at 12% grade (and even a workout all-out of 1.99 miles or about 7.5mph on a 15% for 15-min)....but that was 12 years ago and at sea level!
I appreciate your honest recaps, as always. Could you say more about the science behind the low heart rate? What was keeping you from getting the HR above 160?
honestly I don't have all the answers (could be from lots of things). Sometimes the legs/muscles can be overtrained and tired and make it hard to pull out 100% with the heart and lungs. For me, knowing my Max HR is probably only mid 170s now, 160 is still pretty high. But I do think 157 (since I averaged that for 2.5 hours at Honolulu) is a bit low. Given my lung function and tests after the PE it could be from altered breathing mechanics or another limiting factor (with blood flow in my lungs). The scar tissue and damage in the lungs certainly doesn't help...but I do think my heart is strong (pretty high stroke volume). There are also genetic factors at play with HR dropping with age. All I know is if I can get the HR up into the 160s I'm running a lot better/faster!
I would suggest a Bronchoscopy. It seems like you have spent enough time in Radiology.
9:18, very interested to hear about possible form changes, seems people are talking about that less these days, but i still think it's worth thinking about. My own experience is probably worthless to someone at your level, but it's never stopped me before. I trained somewhat for a recent marathon, but no harder than others in recent years which were all failures. I'm old and usually exhausted, but this race was a walk in the park. Shitty as it is to say, but it's so gratifying to see much younger fitter and stronger runners fall away over the course of 26 miles because their form is obviously making them work too hard. It's so tricky getting the posture and upper body right, but that's the key. But what is "right"? I find it endlessly fascinating, and since my focus is feeling good and easy I just keep on going while others I've known along the way burn out and lose interest
thanks for sharing your story and stay tuned! I think a lot does depend a bit on individual genetics/anatomy....but there are some common themes often!
Glad you didn't get attacked by moose! ... or elk.
the Moose scare me more than Bears!
Ignoring the moose in the room is how people have varying genetic responses to doping stack. And how they taper off. Plan for a race using a stack
Damn, that scenery tho. What mtns are you on here?
He literally says in the first 30s of the video use your ears fool
@@andrewmitchell5807 you sound like an ass
You should do the Blue Sky race in Colorado (Mt. Evans). You could do the up and bad. Would like to see you and Seth run it.
2:35 being a sunny day why is only one racer wearing a hat 🙂?
The wind was so strong you'd loose a hat probably. With the windchill it was below freezing and pretty cloudy above treeline that day too.
Sage, shortness of Breath usually does NOT come from the lung! It comes from the heart! I suspect the effects you feel from the PE are more from the heart than from some scar tissue inside your lung. The lung also does not have pain receptors, the parenchyma, only the pleura and the bronchi and the thoracic cavity has pain receptory, hence why people even smoke. Yes the lung has stretch receptors and chemoreceptors, hence why smoking is uncomfortable and you cough and hence why you can not breathe in indefinitely. I'm saying this because I believe a different perspective could help. I feel like you perceive the damage as done and irreversible, which it is not. It is NOT from the lung, but from the heart, and that one can adapt much more than the lung. Google shortness of breath, acute coronary syndrome and these things. It's not the lung, it's the heart. I promise. (A PE putsenormous strain on the right ventricle and if one even does endurance training while at it, it's even more stress, cor pulmonale is a diffferent thing but nevertheless interesting how a similar pathology also causes shortness of breath)
Are you a doctor? So for context I had some extensive testing done over the years since my PE including 3 ultrasounds of my heart, a pulmonary angiogram, a perfusion lung scan, multiple CT contrast scans, a right heart catheterization etc. They were worried a bit about pressure on the pulmonary artery, chronic clots, and CTEPH....but generally decided that my heart was 100% fine and that only blood flow in the lung was maybe a limiting factor.....the scar tissue around the pleura certainly hurts and "catches" I think? Not sure if there was some vascular remodeling or breathing pattern issues from having the PE for so long. Could be a blood flow/gas exchange problem still I guess?
@@Vo2maxProductions If this person is legit (doctor or medical researcher maybe) I hope he/she responds. This stuff fascinates me :)
I was going to ask if he was a Dr as well. 😂 Doesn’t sound like it. Most MDs don’t use the word “hence” that often.
@@MNP208 I mean I see where they are coming from with the heart strain (and that's why I had my heart tested so much last year....and probably will monitor it with another ultrasound within the next year), but from what I see (in genera) something like "acute coronary syndrome" is generally caused by plaque (fatty deposits) and I don't think I have that as I don't eat any animal fat or have bad cholesterol/triglyceride numbers. The pain is likely in the pleura area as well (for the lungs). My biggest concern is still more blood flow in the lungs and possible micro clots (chronic) or high pulmonary artery pressure from blood vessel damage/narrowing (Which is why I had a right heart cath last year). The heart seems to be clear of defects, but of course the big concern is if there is strain on that right side of the heart.
@@Vo2maxProductions There is also something called “referred pain”. One example is that acid reflux can feel Ike chest pain,etc. Ask about chances of referred pain the next time you go in for a visit.
Sounds like a gruelling race.