Reversing Valve Not Acting Right
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- čas přidán 2. 02. 2022
- I came out to check on this one, and found that the reversing valve didn’t appear to be shifting all the way over in one direction, and the evap was leaking. #hvac #hvaclife #trane #reversingvalve #hvactech #hvactechnician #fieldpiece #makita
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It’s a breath of fresh air to watch somebody who actually knows what they’re doing I Just ran into the same exact issue but equal pressures plus -10 I’ll be replacing the valve Monday.
First, I'd like to say that I just recently discovered your channel and have watched several of your videos over the last couple weeks. I like watching other HVAC techs' videos just to see what experiences others are running into as none of us have "all the knowledge". As someone once said, "When you quit learning, you're dead." As I've watched, I feel like you are someone genuinely trying to find the actual problem and serve the customer, not just make money. So I figured that I would start commenting and throwing in my two cents. I taught a troubleshooting course at a local college for 4 semesters, but quit because it was taking away from family time and work needed to be done in the field. Plus I was not enjoying the classroom setting. I'd much rather teach customers and give pointers to other technicians I meet in the field as well as get feedback form them. I just wanted to let you know I am not just suddenly jumping on to pass judgement and tell you that you are wrong, but to give another angle from my experiences. Which, btw, I'd never seen the magnet trick on the RV before, that's cool. I've used a magnet to reverse them manually, but not to see the position.
Secondly, I know that what I am about to tell you will not help you with this unit, but hopefully help in the future when you run into this again. As I watched this video, I was quickly able to determine that while the reversing valve may be an issue, but it is not the issue your having here. With the unit working for cool and not working in heat, I'll be willing guarantee you that your outdoor TXV had lost its bulb charge. In cooling the valve is bypassed through the external check valve on this vintage Trane. In heat that check valve is closed and refrigerant is forced through the outdoor TXV. If the bulb pressure is dead the TXV will cause the unit to pump down to the indoor coil. The reason that you have high head is likely due to someone trying to pump refrigerant into the unit to try to overcome the restriction of the closed TXV, which will not work. Your head pressure is lower in heat due to the dropping suction pressure causing flow into the high side to slow down. The difference between the 3 head pressures is due to the pumping down action of the unit with the closed TXV. The further away you are from the compressor the less pulsing there is and your gauges will show lower head. You are likely starting to develop liquid in the vapor line due to the lack of flow and the high pressure getting the refrigerant to condense in the vapor line, this will absorb the compressor pulses. You don't have any frosting anywhere likely because of you warming the outdoor coil in cool mode then switching to heat is causing the refrigerant to boil off in the outdoor coil before the temperature is getting below dewpoint. In your video, I see several places the sensing tube off the TXV could be chaffing, and it may be that the line chaffed through and lost the charge. That vintage of Trane I've had many many issues with the tubes chaffing to each other, and not just the TXV capillary tubes either. FYI, I zeroed in on the TXV because a restriction anywhere else in the liquid line would have caused the issue you are having to be in both heating and cooling modes.
As far as the reversing valve, a reversing valve not fully switching and seating will cause the opposite of your issue. Because the valve will start bleeding or dumping hot gas directly into suction, you will have readings similar to a compressor not pumping to capacity. One big test of this is if you do have poor pumping, look to see if you are getting more than 10 degrees temp rise between entering and exiting the valve on the suction side (whichever side is entering suction with mode selection of course). With the unit pumping down though, you would be getting a false reading on the valve because of lack of flow. I will say that the amount of bypassing heard when you turned the unit off was a little concerning with the reversing valve, but that could also have been due to the greater pressure differential in your pumped down state. As far as the groaning/popping noise when reversing, I've heard that a ton on mainly Trane's, and a few other units as well. I've not had one that was doing that actually fail to shift, they were just noisy. My parents had 2 Trane heat pumps that were doing that groaning and popping noise for 10 years and they still worked fine when the house was sold last year.
If the TXV were replaced, the unit would likely work just fine and the issue with the reversing valve may have become better and the unit may have continued to run well for several more years. But, I was not there to get the full picture. You were and there could be other things I did not catch since I was only watching through the lens of an edited video. 😉
I would've just simply told him it's the txv! Most of what u said was correct though good job except he saw oil !! The shaft inside the r. Valve coil could also be a contributing factor
Nice tip on using the magnet on reversing valve to see piston move.
It was something suggested to me by someone like yourself.
It has been my experience that when a valve does not shift all the way, I get very similar reading on liquid and vapor. That one sounds like the port is plugged and that created a blockage in the valve. Perhaps when they changed the compressor they did not use nitrogen or get possible introduced a contaminant into the system. This crazy reversing valve problem is a new one for me.
Sounds like you have a restriction somewhere, remember reversing valves work on pressure differential to shift the piston to the other side. That explains why it’s working in one mode and not the other. Keep them good videos coming 👍🏼
I was going to say pressure causes the canoe to shift. If compressor is not pumping or restricted. No shifting of that valve. Hopefully not the case
Good video, the first thing that I look for when it’s going into vacuum and high head pressure is restriction in liquid line somewhere
Great to see you do a reversing valve video. I made a comment on an earlier video of yours about why you don't use magnets. It's weird I have since had an issue with my own units RV. I thought oh hell naw, karma or whatever. After seeing you do this one it was kinda identical to my scenario and I was just not accepting the RV was bad, but maybe sticking, and sure as hell didn't want to change it. The travel speed of the magnets was slow as was yours. Long story short I traced it down to I was only getting 14v back from the thermostat on the "O" wire for the reversing valve. It was an old Honeywell 7600 and I replaced it with the Honeywell 9000 Wifi. Problem was solved with now getting 24v back on the O wire and the RV changes over quicker now. I hope sharing problem solving stories like yours as well as the people in your comments section do some good and help others.
For those thinking the wire was loose on the terminal at the thermostat, it was not. I even took it out cut and re-stripped it and also cleaned the screw terminal and tightened it back down. The contact inside the circuit board of the thermostat was not making good connection and sending a weak 14v-18v back out to the reversing valve on the O wire. It's a 24 year old heat pump package unit I'm just not giving up on yet. Someday, just not today.
It was likely your comment that gave me the idea of using a magnet.
@@HVACGUY That's great. Just like in your video you can see the magnet slowly sliding and kind of hesitating which was probably from debris inside dragging with the plungers. Most likely caused from when they done the comp change out. Mine was just a slow slide of the magnets which was from a low voltage coming from the thermostat circuit board contacts, It was varying 14-18v. I like to use two magnets one on each side where you can watch them slide together or one may even fall off from the paper label or something, kind of a backup having two. I also like to use the magnets that's a little smaller than a dime, the ones you find in a cheap dollar store refrigerator magnet or something. Love your channel, keep the videos coming.
That reversing valve shifts whenever it feels like it, just kidding, Good job Curtis.
I like watching your videos.., and with all due respect, I want you to be respected, it “doesn’t “ matter, is more correct. 🙏
i had one just like that it blow my mind in cooling it was going into a vacuum when i unplugged the reversing valve it shift and the pressures went back right. plug it back in back to vacuum and making funny noise like yours.
Too bad is not equalizing somewhere else. I'd start digging into LL restriction from start, being r 22 (piston,I assume, or drier or..) great job, as always...
Pain in the butt!😂
Plus the extra time waiting for authorization,I'm glad I'm at the take my price or call someone else point in my life!😐
Thanks again for the videos!
🍺🍺🍺🥃🥃🏌🏻♀️🎯
Stay safe.
Retired (werk'n)keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses!
I’m quickly getting to that point.
BTW…, you’re a very smart HVAC guy…!!
Thanks. I appreciate it.
Reversing valve problems are the most difficult to pin point. Seems when the reversing valve is not acting right the problem is intermittent and the pressures are inconsistent. Just one of those diagnostics that will always feel a bit more like guessing than we'd like.
I’m wondering if that one had a bad heat mode expansion valve. I service a lot of Trane heat pumps and when the heat mode expansion valve is faulty it will pump down into a vacuum in heating but the pressures are good in cooling mode. That reversing valve didn’t sound right when it shifted though so it could be bad also. At this point it doesn’t matter since the system is getting replaced.
At least it's a trane so you can access the reversing valve, they can be hard enough to diagnose, much worse if inside the condenser.
I've seen a lot of reversing fail . This is when they just started installing them in are area. Had problems because cut corners like ac. You got to use nitrogen, and have clean system. Good luck. Have a great day.
I always use nitrogen but when a compressors burns up, I also flush the coils. I give my customers a choice. Authorize/approve replacement of the reversing valve when ever we replace a compressor.
@@kennethnapier131 don't forget acid test and flush/neutralize 😜
I used a very strong magnet to un stuck the valve. Withe compressor on working and I could I would use the activate the coil either in cooling or heating depending on the valve.
TXV plugged up? 🤔 I don't work on a ton of heat pumps but I'm thinking it's restricted at the outdoor TXV. Any thoughts?
Why did u leave the magnets still on the valve when u changed to heating.
I have a question if the REVERSING VALVE bad will it just blow hot and
temp increase the big coper pipe get hot not cool even I am setting cool
I check all the wires and thermostat all good
Looks and sounds like reversing valve and txv low side was going into vacuum.
Yep the seal in side the valve is gone!!
Hmm.. I wonder if this is what is happening on my system. After we turned heat on during winter it kept heating after we set it to cool. Tried changing thermostat, replacing capacitors in outside unit, etc. Eventually realized the compressor wasn't coming on so we had the outside unit replaced with a unit designed to work with our inside furnace. Been about a month and all of a sudden tonight it is heating instead of cooling again. Is there a reversing valve on the inside too, or would that be n the outside? Any other reason for heating instead of cooling?
Thankyou gues welcome good
Great video. Did you say you left the piston for the 410A at the evaporator then put in mo99, wouldn’t the piston need to be a different size?
Yes, that’s what we did. Technically yes, you’re right. But, I’ve only had problems doing that with larger systems. And this was a 3 ton air handler on a 2.5 ton condenser. It worked out just fine.
if runs in cool check txv
Sounds like you've got several issues. One being that reversing valve. The other almost sounds like the txv as well. Usually when I see it pump down like that in one mode it'll work fine in the other mode
I’ve got to agree.
I do as well great video... Hate/love type of call...they make you better however. Something new for a instance.
the expansion valve capilary on condenser rubbed out at s/o the expansion valve is bad.
I don’t change reversing valves any more. Change out is cheaper. 40% success rate on RV replacement if Lady Luck is on my side.
My feeling on R7R rev valves. Hard to not cause damage to the Teflon "o" rings from the heat..
You can use the wet ragg stuff to help with the heat transfer.
Inject sipco oil on units that have potential reversing valve issues. It will add lubricant to avoid sticking. IT WORKS sometimes for sure.
I was just about to say maybe try ac renew. I haven't used it much but it could work. Still could not resolve the problem though and to avoid a call back and better profit margins best to just recommend replace and or fix it 100% find restriction or if its a bad valve replace it proper welding etc and of course replacing the filter drier good vacuum and proper charge.
I was just about to say maybe try ac renew. I haven't used it much but it could work. Still could not resolve the problem though and to avoid a call back and better profit margins best to just recommend replace and or fix it 100% find restriction or if its a bad valve replace it proper welding etc and of course replacing the filter drier good vacuum and proper charge.
Have u seen a cracked reversing valve shaft inside the coil? Or a weak coil? Txv is my best choice . As stated by others I wasn't there so anything is a guess. Great video though !
Reversing Valves are notorious for clogging up. How I use to overcome this is of course change the valve and the I would add an oversized liquid line drier and a suction drier. then a deep deep Vacuum...
I don’t mind doing them. But, it’s really hard to bill for all that it entails.
Hello sir where did purchase your ipad holder?
It is probably outdoor txv or outdoor check valve
Good chance the reversing valve caused the compressor failure. Compressors rarely fail on their own, but once they are dead you're unable to determine what other factors could have contributed. Replacing the compressor usually doesn't work out long term.
If good work practices weren't used when installing the compressor that could definitely cause the RV to have problems. Sometimes some Supco 77 oil will help.
Carrier weaknesses
Gheeze all that piping and RV sure does block the airflow through the coil 😂. Replace it.. haha
I'm confused. In your truck, the call was to replace the valve. You did double work. I hope you're not working per hour, lol.
Sir i got the inspection mirror from amazon..
Great. I hope it helps you.
👍
Sir what is the yellow clamps u atach to the pipes wht is it to check
They check temperature
@@HVACGUY ok acktually am in ref,deepfreezer n airconditioning etc work.can be used for these work.
Outdoor txv
Should be standard change out the reversing valve with a new compressor install . Reversing valve cost less then $150 bucks .
Since it wasn't shifting all the way that was causing it to go into vacuum?
It can. The tru suction looked to be completely blocked off. Without being able to check the other suction it’s hard to tell. The TXV can do that, but I’d expect to see some icing. And then there was the difference in the two head pressures in heat. So, the RV was problematic, but may not have been the only problem.
@@HVACGUY good to know, I was thinking when the RV would be problematic it's either sticks in cooling or heating mode or the discharge bleeds into the suction. Good to know that it can also stick and block off the true suction cause vacuum.
Acts like it has air in the system
First of all, that unit is in pretty poor condition. Is this unit worth the hourly charges ?
Second of all, that compressor sounds like crap. How many compressors were replaced in this unit, and if so did anyone change the dryers and check the oil for acid and contaminents ? perform a thorough evacuation ? Use new, correct refrigerant compatable with the oil in the system and weigh in the charge ? I like to leave the charge a little short, then add very slowly while the unit has run for about 10 minutes.
If you need some quick tests, I would pull out some of that refrigerant charge to get that head pressure down, maybe consider pulling the entire charge and doing a thorough evacuation then recharge with new refrigerant. Make sure the condenser fan is up to speed ( I don't really hear it )
Always make sure you have all of the right operating conditions...clean air filters, clean coils, good airfow, etc.
If all is good, you can try pulling the solenoid wire on the reversing valve and touch the wire on and off several times to try and push out any entrapped oil or contaminents inside the reversing valve. Watch your pressures and superheat as you do this. If there were multiple compressors replaced in this unit or if the unit has had servere refrigerant floodback the reversing valve and its tiny capillaries might be clogged with oil. Reversing valves usually stick or fail from compressor burnout carbon, metal debris in the oil, or other contaminents that may cause waxing or sludging of the oil. I actually cut open a large, expensive reversing valve from a 20 ton compressor and found small dents in the valve body that pushed through and jammed the valve...a previous tech was tapping on the valve body with an adjustable wrench because he thought it was stuck...turns out the solenoid coil had an open winding. We are all human and nobody is a perfect tech. This is what makes this trade tricky because many hands were on that unit over the years I bet, and you don't know if someone let air or moisture get in to the oil or if they added the wrong refrigerant. That unit is old and I can see the green oxidation near that " Christmas Garland" aluminum condenser coil which may already have a leak, or be slowly dissolving into the oil like silver paint. If this system continues to be a problem, condemn it. Sell the customer a new system and make money or move on to a new customer. If you don't , you will rack up a ton of service time, have a piece of junk unit, and an unhappy customer who may refuse to pay at the very least or even take legal action against your company.
Curtis i hope you will look into other platforms to upload your videos. As you must know this one and it's owner bloogle (mis spelled trying to avoid the algorithm sensors are strangling the freedom of speech in our beloved America. You and 4 others are the only reason i come to this platform now because my comments are deleted and shadow banned. I hope you get to read this.
Reversing valve,TXV,new liquid line filter with sight glass
It would be cheaper to replace at that point 🤣 good luck getting them to sign for that, but I agree with you sir
AC renew
OK video but you gave away the plot... Don't tell us what is wrong.