@@JohnAbrahamsen There's a difference between tough and abusive. Tough encourages growth. Abusive encourages contempt for authority and deception to avoid punishment.
@@alexgrether3662 Here's a funny one, and I understand there is some truth to it. A pilot had just landed at Frankfurt and was dealing with a rude ATC, who asked him, derisively, if he'd ever been to Frankfurt before. The pilot replied "yes I have - twice - in 1943 - but I didn't land". Silence from ATC.
Dear Mentour, i must say that you have a "stabilized approach" for life. If was more ppl like you, our world could be much better place. Keep the good work and keep to be who you are. Love your attitude and personality , you a real mentor for me.
@@thomasm1964 I bet he forgets he's in a car and tries to accelerate by pushing the gear stick forward keeping centre of the road markings, trying to keep centerline using the gas and clutch pedal.
I'm not an airline pilot but your your approach to training works in every other training environment as well. Yelling , screaming and belittling does by far more damage than good. Love your videos. Keep up the good work.
I had an instructor once who was constantly bad tempered and sniping in the air. It left me very low and demoralised. I knew it was wasting my money so I made sure i never flew with him again and got a far better, more professional and even-tempered replacement. Turned out I was a much better student than I thought I was!
Same thing happened to me. I had a yelling and terrible CFI. I put up with him for 5 flights. The 6th flight was the last straw as he was really yelling. After we landed and secured the aircraft I then told him I was finished. I changed my CFI. The flight school fired fired him a week later as there were other complaints.
Having trained many people in my line of work (now retired), I learned that you must never, never do anything that destroys their confidence. To perform well, they must be confident in what they are doing and confident in their trust in you...
As a kid I took riding lessons. I was a very nervous rider, which of course isn't good when working with horses. When my instructor said I could do something, i trusted her enough that i could use her confidence in me to help boost my confidence in myself, so I managed to do things for her, that i would have been too afraid to do otherwise.
@@zottelhuehs6375 Same here, and I learned as an adult. Once an instructor got me round a mini-X-country course on a confirmed 'stopper' when I was scared of jumping a simple pole fence in the school. Her confidence steadied mine, and the stopper went along with both of us and jumped everything kindly for me. I teach artists, and it's very important to be careful with their confidence whilst still being firm in correcting their mistakes, so they gain in confidence from a session rather than lose it. [Though at times it is necessary to trim the over-inflated egos of those few individuals without confidence issues who refuse to believe they don't know everything, otherwise they just don't learn anything.....]
I'm know this is a common story, but I got yelled at by a math instructor on my first day of the class because I asked a question about something I was supposed to have already known at that level. Being young, new to the school, and therefore not very confident, I did not stand my ground (his expectation of prior knowledge was incorrect, but that's a long story). I wish I could say that I overcame, studied like mad, and became a mathematics professor, LOL, but basically I didn't re-take that level of math class again for over a decade (too late, career-wise). Sometimes there is no excuse for bad teaching.
I've had good teachers that do that, but its more and more becoming a thing of the past. I had a great CDL driving instructor who taught me things you'd never even think about, and the guy went his 60+ years of driving without ever having a single crash or even minor ticket, and knock on wood, I've yet to have a crash after 25 years on the road and have a clean record. But he was ex-military if I recall, and he would come down on you just hard as can be if you made a mistake.
Or he could be like a manager I used to work for. That guy would always criticize everything and give everyone who worked for him a below average performance review. His justification was that if he ever gave any positive feedback the person under him would stop trying to improve. The actual result is that everyone who worked for him eventually quit.
@@earthwormscrawl To de-motivate your coworkers is the worst thing a person in a leadership position can do - equal in which business. You depend on the quality of their work - and the quality of their work depends a.) on their competence - and b.) on their motivation. So you would put yourself also in a loose-loose-situation.
The other day I was watching some clips taken on B-17s in WWII, and even in the heat of combat, no one got angry or yelled at anyone. Even direct orders were relayed calmly and clearly. Now THAT's a perfect example or good CRM.
One can tell just how knowledgeable you are given you've managed to spin a 15 second viral clip into 17 and a half minutes of relevant, informative content.
@@Knightfall23 Thankfully I was fully aware of CRM before I taught my daughter to drive, and within a couple of weeks we had a good driver and a happy relationship, and four years later we still work as a team when driving. Next daughter starts next year. This video should be compulsory viewing for all fathers teaching daughters to drive. Well or sons I suppose.
My guess is Ali you are one of a few that can debate in a civilized manner, I've had a lot of experience with this culture but not all are as aggresive but agree with your comment.
I've met trainers / teachers like that angry man. There is no positive result for the trainee as the trainee just shuts down, gets angry and feels very low inside and will fail more and more because they can't think anymore. Whenever I've had trainers like that I've just found another trainer (even if it costs a heap of money). Thankfully it has only happened a couple of times in my lifetime and the next instructor was 100 times better.
Indeed, I had an instructor once not shouting at me, but giving up on me when I wasn't able to do stuff the first try and saw me as a lost case, I got better with another people with a little more patience and not being dickheads.
@@musicfan5921 A long, long time ago I learned to drive a military truck. Not an aircraft, but anyways. The instructor was shouting at me, causing me to fail all of the time. When I was "a lost cause" I was sent to another instructor. From that second, I performed perfectly. The new instructor did not understand why I was in his "lost cause" class....
without knowing the context it's hard to really judge. Maybe the co-pilot hasn't been listening at all or is an arrogant twot or the trainer could just be having a bad day- though he shouldn't take it out on the student. However, this isn't a kid who forgot their homework or a child who was late for the 15th time to soccer practice. This is a flight and it is inappropriate to jeopardise the safety of the aircraft right then
Totally agree with you in the general sense and with what we are presented with, however, we don't know what happened before or after the video, nor do we know the relationship between the 1st officer and the captain. I'm not in aviation although I have had leadership and training roles and quickly discovered that people are not all the same particularly in how they like to receive information and critique of their effort, performance or work product. For example, some respond better and will improve if you put a rocket up them, others want you to be their best friend and respond better in that environment.
Might be the student and the teacher agreed to a "safe word" beforehand? We really don't know the circumstances in total, could be part of their "special" relationship. ;p
I remember boot camp, some of the Marines' instructors were really good at imaginative swearing. I pretty much did what I was told (it was that or the brig), but never gained an ounce of respect for those jokers. Later on there was this Major I stood up to in front of a whole class of soldiers. He conceded his mistake (visibly swallowing his anger). That man, I will never forget. It takes a real man to do that.
I am a driverinstructor in Oslo, and I was educated as that in 1975. I am still working, and you are very correct by telling what the instructor did wrong! You can never be angry at at a pupil. There is no bad pupils, only bad teatchers! Thank's for your vids Peter! Happy New Year, from Arild in Oslo Norway!
I was a hang glider pilot for 23 years. For many years I assisted a CFI instructor. My job was to fly above novice pilots when flying in ridge lift, to give positive feedback once the pilot was out of sight of the instructor. The point of mentioning this is that many of the "students" were very experienced commercial pilots. Airforce pilots, Qantas pilots, helicopter pilots, commercial and private pilots. Apart from having superior aeronautical knowledge, NONE of them learned to fly a hang glider any quicker than anyone else. This hands on experience confirms to me, that just because the first officer was a pilot in an Air Force, it would count for little when learning to fly a completely different airplane, such as a 737. Petters' comments in this regard are spot on.
That’s really interesting. Helicopter pilot here. I assumed aviation experience would help with the Learning, it’s interesting that it doesn’t. That probably indicates how different that type of flying is.
@@chrisbeauchamp5563 in fairness, he did say with the exception of prior knowledge of the theory. I'm not a pilot myself, but I wonder if why they didn't learn wasn't so much because they weren't already used to flying, but because they had to un-learn/modify stuff that was core skills to them. I mean, I would personally have to learn the basics to even be comfortable using a yoke, but I wouldn't have any preconceived notions about it, either.
The summary at the end is brilliant, not only in a cockpit but in every organization from a family to a country or a multinational company. Regardless of any frustration, being the boss means being _responsible for all_ that happens under your watch, and not being the one and only _knowing it all..._
Same as my mum when she tried to teach me to drive. Only thing I got out of it was the ability concentrate whilst some one is screaming at you🤣 (the driving part I got from dad)
My driving instructor used to full stop the car in the middle of busy crossings to yell at me for being hesitant or insecure while everyone around us was honking and flipping fingers. Like "I believe you can do this, if you don't believe that as well gtfo of my car now!" lol. In hindsight that was an awesome stress test lol
Your comments about the breakdown for CRM are spot on. In fact I believe there are a number of crashes that have, in part, been attributed to the FO not speaking up because they were afraid to contradict the caption. No one learns what you want when you're screaming at them; they just learn to be afraid of poking the bear.
This was my first thought too. There absolutely have been bad fatal accidents due to poor human dynamics in the flight deck. It’s why during the 80s and 90s that human factors and CRM became so important, because it saves lives.
The trainer reminds me of a hothead instructor I had years ago. An incident comes to mind: I commented that the plane didn't feel right and he started yelling at me. I quickly ran the takeoff checklist again and found the flap setting was wrong. The only thing I ever learned from that man was to keep my head out of the cockpit during VFR/VMC flight conditions.
I remember an incident a few years ago - I believe it was Air China. The first officer noticed that the captain made some kind of serious error, but he was in so much awe of the pilot's authority that he didn't speak up, and the plane crashed on landing.
This made me think of my driving lessons. The instructor had a habit of raising his voice often. At one point in time i stalled the engine whilst driving through a busy shopping street. I can't describe the words he shouted at me, luckily it didn't make me deaf. It's an eerie feeling having all those people look at you in the driver seat and an instructor shout at you. Later he explained that he overreacted *to show the people in the street how serious he was tutoring* and that's part of the course. Pro: i learned to drive well and passed the test at the first attempt. Con: i counted the hours until the end of the course.
that's a really weird thing for him to do. it's obvious you're learning. his objective is to instruct so that you learn. him displaying his seriousness to bystanders in ways that actually damage his effectiveness achieves the opposite of what he wants. if i ever encounter an instructor/teacher shouting, i'd pity the student and dismiss the instuctor as immature and ineffective.
My first driving instructor was called Gunter; he did nothing except scream “FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER” and "NEIN NEIN NEIN" for most of every lap. Seems like he’s moved on to pilot training...
@@tomschwab5619 the drill instructor/drill sergeant mentality in training and coaching is one of the most toxic features of US high school/college world. Overwhelming evidence from throughout the world, except US, is that it makes no difference or makes things worse. Even in the military itself.
Someone in, now deleted comment, talked about becoming an upstanding person because their parents were tough on them. I don't buy that for a second because in the next sentence they rationalized domestic abuse. There's no such thing as everyone gets a trophy and everyone is a special snowflake mentalities.
@@fk319fk That's not an actual show meant to train chefs or viewers on how to cook. It's an entertainment show first and foremost based around cooking.
When I was in ground school in the 80s we where told that the Captain was the only authority and any comments from the first officer would usually be shut down. In many of the crashes we studied, the transcript of the voice recorder had the first officer pointing out a problem and the Captain shutting the first officer down. It is a very good thing that that has changed.
I totally agree with you. This can put the aircraft at risk. Reminds me of the two 747's that collided when the Captain of on of the 747's was not properly cleared for take off and the first officer was to scared to speak up. It was a horrible and preventable accident.
@@747-pilot it’s still an example of what can go wrong, and why human factors became so Important in training. The reason the god complexes are less of a problem is due to the changes in attitudes and training that pushed it out. At the very least the behaviour of the captain was unprofessional, and at worst risky due to it diverting focus and attention at a critical time, as Peter highlighted.
It sounds like you are referring to the 1977 Tenerife collision of a KLM 747 and a Pan Am 747. Many things went wrong to cause this accident including some unfortunate crosstalk in the radio communication between the aircraft and the tower causing garbled comms. The airport was also shrouded in fog, and yes, the KLM captain was in a hurry to take off. Very sad, as 583 people died. I believe it is still the worst air disaster in history.
I teach crew and race sail boats in high latitudes. Don’t shout. When a skipper shouts he’s betraying his limited comfort zone. It rarely achieves anything. I’ve only ‘yelled’ once. When a crew member that wasn’t taking things seriously nearly killed someone through not paying attention. And even then, it was largely for effect. To make something stick. And it was after the situation was under control.
I've had a sailing instructor that was trying to introduce some stress level in his training by shouting. We were training man over board maneuvers under sail. I think when you as a skipper are in that situation, you are under extreme stress, because if you screw up, someone will die, and not just a pair of fenders getting lost. So, he tried to introduce stress to harden people against that situation...
@@realulli I guess that is understandable so long as the shouting isn't allowed to turn into berating. I could potentially see a similar thing working if simulating a decompression at high altitude or something, somewhat similar in that both are situations where you have minutes to get passengers or crew members out of an environment that absolutely is going to kill them otherwise. I suspect most average people wouldn't keep their head above water much longer in open water than the 10 mins or so the emergency oxygen system would last. I consider myself a fairly decent swimmer but know how exhausting cool water with active swells and waves can get very quickly just sucks the energy right out of you as does an attempt to swim or even tred water in wet clothes doesn't take much for them to feel like lead weights on every movement.
Reminds me of a glider instructor I had when I was in CAP. His name was Ivan, he said he was a defector from the Iranian air force. he sounded exactly the same as that guy lol. When I did something wrong he would bang on the top of his instrument panel and yell super loud. it was so startling in a quiet glider lol
Yep, you're completely right about the culture differences. In countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, India, China etc., the gain in hierarchy between an FO and Captain is huge. The Captain is considered the absolute genius and boss and the FO actually calls the Captain "Sir", which would sound absurd in the Western world. It used to be like this everywhere, especially when most pilots had a military background. Then people kept noticing how often the FO knew something the Captain didn't...
The fear of a closely missed disaster can lead also to such anger... but it's totally spot on that two much authority is definitely dangerous while you're counting to have a back up to warn about things can't speak up.
I have enormous respect for flight instructors. In my beginning, I used to ride the stall warning on final and my instructor would just be relaxed all the way to the ground. Although he would remind me all the time, I would keep doing the same mistake. The chief instructor cured me on my pre-solo check ride. He pushed the control as we cleared the trees on final to stop the intermittent beep of the stall warning. I very seldom got stall warning after that. I learned how to fly in a bush pilot school. I could land and take off a Cesna 172 on a 800 ft mud runway. It was fun.
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 I learned so much from them. I remember going to visit another school with a 6000ft paved runway. We invited them to visit us some time. They came and tried to land on the 800 ft temporary runway (taxi lane) while our 3000ft paved runway was being built. They tried twice to land. We laughed, not on air, when they called on the UNICOM and said they were turning back.
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 I was flying Cessna 152 (CG-DWJ) mainly, but I also flew Cessna 172 (CF-PTF). This was in the sprint. Sometimes is was rough hard surface, sometimes it was muddy. Although we only had 800ft, we had at least 800 ft front and back of the runway. We would get down to about 20 ft and kept it there until we were over the runway and did soft landing approach. For take off, we did short field take off with 10degree flaps. The faster we got the plane off the ground the better it was.
@@michelrail Were you doing rolling take offs. Another trick is to take off with flaps 10, then 10 knots before Vr 55knots, pop 15 flaps and raise it off the runway, then fly on ground effect to the Vr. When cold you can pop 20 instead of 15. That is to just jump a bit off the draggy grass...
I wish in life Peter, that everyone could bring your level of intelligence and understanding into the training sphere as well as into life in general. Calm, assuring, competent and massively useful. You separate the truly helpful from the truly bullies and the results become obvious....
This reminded me one of my first landings with an ultralight aircraft. I didn't check our speed a brief moment before touchdown. My instructor said, "and now we will fall". Indeed we lost lift and the landing was kinda rough, I proceeded with touch n' go and briefly confirmed I understood my error. Apparently it wasn't the last rough landing, but I was always cautious about correct speed since then. What I remember till now is his casual, informative expression.. Later, the instructor told me several stories such as during a stall recovery training, the stick suddenly stuck in almost fully pulled position and it was just resisting all push attempts. At that point he told himself "well, this is it", I guess with the same informative voice. Then he found a small bottle of water was stuck under trainee's stick. So he promptly removed it, recovered and resumed flight, politely asking the trainee that next time it would be great to store such things in secure spaces, which I believe she will remember for the rest of her life. I am so glad that basically all the flight instructors I've met were really cool people with nerves of steel.
I would pull that training captain's cert ASAP. There is NO excuse for that form of abuse. I may be a retired psychologist, but I would also require he take a psych. evaluation.
You must be such a fantastic teacher. I am forever amazed at the parallels between aviation and the medical fields. Same safety issues. Same Interpersonal issues. Same learning environments. From one nurse to one pilot, great video!
This video should be shown to every offshore instructor I have trained. We run into the same situation between mentors, trainers, and trainees. One you start barking and belittling the employee, he shuts down and you get nothing good out of him. Helpful instructive criticism works very well without the drama.
Thank you for bringing up this subject! I believe it is a very important one. I used to hold a ppl with muti-engine instrument rating and gained 800 hours. In my opinion what often is lacking is feedback to the instructors, for the reason you are talking about here. In an early stage of training and for pilots who just started their path to become commercial pilots this kind of behaviour is plain and simple dangerous. At the early stages of training, after first solo flight and also when a pilot has a ppl (a licence to learn) and working on moving on with more training, behaviour like this can very well contribute to deadly accidents. Another point that probably not are getting through is when the instructor is to late with his instructing. When the student already is trying to correct and the instructor keeps nagging. For example if the student is struggling to maintain altitude in a turn and the instructor keeps repeating the all too obvious "you must keep altitude" over and over again, instead of identifying what it is that the student are doing wrong. It can just be counter productive and generate more and riskier mistakes. Flight instructors should probably work on this and realize that they are not getting enough feedback them selves. Or can it be that many instructors in early training is just crappy instructors waiting to be sorted out? I understand that your channel is focused on airline flying but we all have to start somewhere. My self, I never had any plans to become a commercial pilot, I flew a lot during a number of years for my work in my old PA-23-250, travelling around northern Europe as a service engineer.
I was a technician working in the theatre, music and conferencing industry. I often found myself in charge of crews of various levels of experience. If issues occurred I always found the best approach to rectifying them would be to take the person to one side and have a quiet talk with them and try to make them feel comfortable with me explaining and discussing the problem. I think I can only really remember raising my voice twice as there was an immediate, serious safety issue and an immediate stop was needed. I really enjoyed this analysis and the more of your videos I watch the more I wish I'd had the opportunity to look at pilot training as a career.
when I was in pilot training (commercial helicopter), I had very calm and friendly flight instructors. They always made me feel comfortable, even when I was in a learning plateau. During the briefing for my flight instructor rating, the very experienced check pilot told me on our way to the helicopter, that I was possibly going to make mistakes during the check ride and that this would be normal and that he would talk to me later about that in a way that I would learn something out of the mistakes (to be made) for my flying career. I really appreciated his down to earth approach to my "final" check ride. Everything went well and I promised myself that, would I ever be in a comparable position, I would treat my examinees in the same, human way. A few hundred hours later when I had to do a check ride for the prolongation of a typerating, I had to deal with a check pilot which behaved the total opposite. Not even that he himself was unable to perform / demonstrate emergency manoeuvres on the spot (pedal off landings, for example), but he behaved like a offended kid when something did not work out the way he wanted (when I was in control of the aircraft). I was in my late 20´s then and had to take several check rides with that, well, guy. He was the chief pilot and I wanted to fly for that company. So I kept my mouth shut. Now, in my 40´s, I would not take that kind of __it again, fly back to the company helipad, get out of the aircraft and leave. To get to the point: If you have a check pilot which behaves like an _____hole, you should talk to someone in charge about it. Not only does that kind of unprofessional behaviour make you feel really bad, but it also significantly worsens your performance. If I had had such a person as a flight instructor, I would have definately quitted training (and spent a hundred thousand dollars in the company of a competitor). Many happy landings.
You're lucky you didn't end up like that Airblue flight that crashed in Islamabad. That Captain was also a textbook insecure narcissist. What happened? He did everything possible to violate all SoPs, flew the plane into the hills and the first officer was heard pleading with him passively to no avail on the CVR all the way to the final seconds before impact. Scary how helpless and powerless he felt even though he saw his own doom looming before him.
The worst justification for anything: "it has always been like this". Whenever someone tries to get away with it you can be certain she or he is a moron.
If I were 20 years younger watching your videos and listening to your brilliant knowledge of this industry would definitely have pushed me to follow in your footsteps and become a pilot. Huge fan 👍👍
Aggression is never effective? Fifty years ago, things that happened in the cockpit tended to become common knowledge among airline personnel. One story that I heard from multiple sources, complete with crew names, involved the flight of a passenger turboprop of a type that had sufficient power to overspeed the airplane in level flight. Being behind schedule on takeoff, the captain decided to make up time by disabling the overspeed warning system and cruising at a speed beyond the VMO/MMO limit. When the first officer protested, the captain ignored him. Whereupon the first officer retrieved a pistol from his flight bag, leveled it at the captain's head and said something like, "Okay, you S.O.B., but if the wings come off, you are going to be dead before we hit the ground." The captain decided to slow the airplane down. Effective.
I love what you do, and it really helps me for my future training for an "aviation life". THANK YOU MENTOUR!The first possitive thing about 2021 is that you started uploading daily.
Wise advice regarding any teacher/student relationship. I was a paediatric nurse educator, it is essential that communication can flow bilaterally without aggressive behaviour. No one would learn anything from that fool in the Left seat. He should NEVER be aloud to instruct anyone ever again.
"this is the way that it has always been done" If I hear that, then my mindset is always "there is no capacity for improvement here, and I need to find a place with a completely different culture". We'd still be living in caves, with a life expectancy of 35 years, if we had put up with such arguments.
Happy New Year to you and your family (doggos included), Petter. I assume the camera was there for "training purposes"), i.e. to assist with the debrief. I sure hope that training captain got a debrief of his own after that flight - for an attitude adjustment (and maybe a refill on his mercury pill prescription). All I know is that if I'm a passenger in an airliner I would hate to think that the pilot in control is being distracted like that at a critical time like landing. Love your content.
NEVER yell at a student. That will a) freak them the hell out now; and b) instill a fear of the captain, causing them to not speak up when the captain makes a mistake. This has brought down airliners before.
13:33 Talking about the first officer becoming too passive, I am immediately reminded of Korean Air Cargo Flight 8509. The captain's ADI was malfunctioning, but the first officer's was working fine. During take-off, the captain started dangerously banking to the left, following his faulty ADI, but the first officer, according to the CVR, said _nothing,_ and they crashed and died.
Hes is a Pakistani Captain . Its a culture here especially in our CAA where inspectors do like this and many captains in PIA too ! So its always very stressing for young FOs.but very well put together Mentour pilot . 👍👍
Guys+girls the captain is absolutely right, I’ve mentioned my experience before in the enter air video where a similar thing occurred, I was verbally and almost physically assaulted by a captain for not ‘doing as I was told’, it was a horrible experience that will stay with me for life. There are some horrible captains out there, be mindful of that and hope you don’t encounter one... thanks for sharing captain 🧑✈️
I don't think this is good at all. Anywhere, let alone the cockpit where 2 people are supposed to fly the plane as more-less equals. You act like this, and you can forget about any feedback in the future from the student. And this is really bad if you are doing something together. Flying, no flying.
I started watching this vid as I was watching Mayday episode 2 season 11 called killer attitude. This episode was about the crash of Northwest Airlink 5719. The conclusion was the frosty cockpit between a green first officer and a cocky captain who berated the first officer repeatedly to point the first officer was afraid resulting in total breakdown of CRM. This episode is exactly about what the message of this vid is about and this accident maybe the one that brought about the importance of CRM.
Having spent almost 10 years being 'instructed' in this way up to my late 20s in a sport, this was really triggering to watch. It wasn't until I eventually gained some maturity and was less vulnerable and impressionable that I developed some perspective and realised it is completely disrespectful and unnaceptable to treat students like this. At best it is simply unnecessary, but at worst it can be extremely harmful. Thank you Mentour pilot for highlighting this issue and encouraging the cultural shift in teaching attitudes which fortunately does seem to be occurring.
These rotten interactions inside of cockpits have caused numerous crashes through the years... In the contrary, good CRM have already prevented a lot a deaths.
The last part is accurate. Auditory exclusion is a thing: when you suddenly turn a relatively stressful situation into a highly stressful situation the student isn't going to hear you.
This is a classic case of someone who has a skill that someone believes they will teach well. Teaching is a talent. The person with the skill must have the passion to impart their own knowledge and the skill to teach their skill. Nice job in presenting this.
Petter you are an inspiration to us all in your attitude to aviation. An instructor should inspire confidence in the trainee. The trainee will make mistakes. You stay calm and evaluate if this mistake is critical to the aircraft’s safety. I am sure in these cases you would shout out ‘my controls’ and stabilise the aircraft. It is always a pleasure to listen to your advice.
If the pilot was a military fighter pilot, that might explain why his alignment on the centre line was off. If he's used to sitting in a single seater he won't be used to parallax when lining up from a side seat.
Fortunately too, if the PF was a military fighter pilot, he has plenty of experience in letting the ravings of a bloviating windbag slide right off his back.
@@HalfShelli I don't know if you are going to be able to ready this reply - 9 months - I'm afraid not... shouting and screaming orders has been banned in the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force with the exception of assertive direct orders in emergency situations - and even then the first sailor or airman/woman on the scene (or having the controls at the time) is the officer in charge of the emergency response until the de-brief and then a top officer can take charge of the de-brief.
and this means - in ANY circumstances.... raising a voice over a distance ... for example on a parade ground is different from shouting an order in other circumstances... you also may shout to call a subordinate over to you so you can talk to them quietly face-to-face. So, even if the FO was ex-forces he would NOT be used to being shouted at in the flight deck.
Swedish Airforce pilot training had a reputation to be hard and tough and unforgiving in the 1950s and 1960s I think. Then there was this big change to the present system that is similar to the attitudes for modern CRM as you mention here. Now every misstake or deviation that a student pilot does is discussed as something to learn from and not to be critizised for. And as I have understood it, this positive attitude and behavior is now implemented all over and has contributed to fewer fatal incidents.
Well.. it can go to far. I wouldn't b surprised if the swedish af was dismantled tomorrow bcoz racism/lack of diversity/planes not pride flag colored/etc woke bs..
@@kungfreddie I don't think @Sagittarius was on about being _WOKE_ the Royal Navy makes it a CRIMINAL offence and classifies unnecessary shouting as mutinous behaviour. The notion of 'jamming signals' a mutinous act - whoever performs it - is taken into the human factors context too ... if you are jamming someone's thought patterns then that is serious do do in the RN and can land you in the brig or dishonorably discharged. Only contextual shouting is permitted - i.e for an officer to call over someone to speak to them quietly or on a parade sqaure - or in an emergancy and even then the officer in charge is THE first sailor (and in the RN sailors can also be air crew) who is at the scene or spots the dangerous occurrence happening. only after the incident will a 'senior' officer lead a de-bried.... _EXCATLY IN THE SAME WAY AS MENTOUR DESCRIBES_
I can not give this video enough likes! Thank you for a very constructive, positive and informative analysis of this. Not everyone has the ability to effectively teach unfortunately. You touched on leadership and mentorship in your talk which is an integral part of effective teaching. This talk can be applied to so many other disciplines. Thanks again.
It works both ways too. I once shut down 1/4 of an Underground system by closing the wrong switch. My trainee asked if I was sure, and I was lol. No anger was involved though. Friday evening at 20.30. It got a mention on the newspapers. No injuries, but it took 20 minutes to get the trains running again. Only 3 months demotion.
This is very important advice for any kind of teacher/trainer, not just in aviation. If you lose your cool, you lose in your objective of teaching. And kudos to Mentour for managing to fill as much as the whole first half of the video with objective safety-related analysis/suggestions, before focusing on the soft skills / CRM aspect (not that the latter is less important).
I never liked getting yelled at or insulted in flight training, when I was concentrating on flying. It distracted me and amplified negative emotions as well as damaging my confidence. IPs that were friendly and patient allowed me to graduate. IPs that are so arrogant as to think that yelling makes them more intelligent and better leaders don't realize they are displaying hostile mental illness symptoms at dangerous moments.
I get that kind abuse from my co-pilot from time to time when I am the pilot flying. She happens, however, to be my wife, so it is imperative to not talk back.
Your comment is probably meant to be humorous, but if one partner speaks to another in such a manner, then it is straight-up abuse and should not be tolerated. This is like how "wife beating" is no longer tolerated.
Start with pilot unions and what their relationship with an airline is like. Lots of litigation can be a red flag on both sides. A union constantly bringing wrongful termination lawsuits on an airline that actively fires pilots for policy violations and misconduct can be a sign that the airline takes those incidents seriously and has a low tolerance for that behavior. A cooperative relationship between a union and an airline can also be a sign that the company values their pilots and it’s reflected in their Collective Bargaining Agreement.
I've seen some Mayday episodes where an abusive pilot has made mistakes that were not brought up by the right seat, resulting in disaster. Scary... and BTW, your videos, Petter, make Mayday look pedantic. Very well done, mate! Chapeau!
Reminds me of the incidents of Asiana San Francisco, the KLM in the Canary Islands, and the Koean Airlines in Guam. In any team situation, you need all eyes, ears and experience to be the safest possible.
There's that infamous Lockheed Tristar crash in England where the bad blood in the cockpit brought the CRM down to the point where the Captain wouldn't even talk to the First Officer. So he made a sharp upward gesture with his hand to signal to raise the gear after the takeoff. The First Officer retracted the leading edge slats.
Sounds like me with a few of my students. Lol. UNACCEPTABLE! Great point on being active on the controls. The challenge with that is when they are first learning to land. Like teaching someone how to ride a bike. You have to help, but how much. It took me 500 hours of instruction given to figure it out.
No one should ever go through this. My short career as a Private Pilot, the greatest ever was the CALMEST. His name was Frank Hardy, when you made a mistake he would always explain calmly and you never made the same mistake again. EVER. This instructor, YOU'RE FIRED.
I don't know if you have children but if you do, I have to imagine you are just as a fantastic father as you are a pilot and mentor ❤️ Much joy and kindness wished for you and your family and thank you for sharing this with us This is a life lesson, not just an aviation lesson.
Allways interesting to se your content. I have been a gliderpilot for many years until I got health problems and become grounded. I work as a arts and crafts teacher (slöjdlärare) for children and I have now found that I have the same approach to learn my pupils the scills for crafts. Always a postive comment if they have a good idea and positive debriefing when it goes wrong for them. And it is so amazing to see how much they grow in their learning and dare to have crazy ideas. And also för me to admit that I did wrong then something goes wrong for the children due to my instructions. Happy new year! and I looking forward to see more of your interesting content in 2021.
UNACCEPTABLE! :D In all reality though, I totally agree with you about the need to keep one's cool in the cockpit. If a pilot loses their head in a moment like this, I'd venture to bet that they can't keep their emotions in check during an emergency, or at least their emotions might cloud their good judgement. A solid pilot should strive to make the cockpit a neutral territory, IMO, because there's so much at stake.
If that was me in the cockpit he would have been getting some direct feedback on his toxic behaviour . Training captain or not !! Your there to learn . This guy is creating a personal culture of fear !!
I agree with you, once you start yelling at someone because they didn't 'do it right' their first time trying, you just lost that student.
We don't know that it was the FO's first attempt. But I completely agree that this behaviour is inappropriate and destructive.
@@beeble2003 Actually I agree. Sometimes frustration is a good source of motivation.
@@PogodinPavel not in a high stakes situation like this, where being calm is paramount
"all the time" suggests it's not his first rodeo
It's better to lost temper and pupil than lose souls...
"How the hell did you ever become a fighter pilot?!?"... By not having instructors like you.
Absolutely!
:-)
Excatly 🤣🤣
Um. No. He did it by having instructors just like him... Military culture is not cuddling...
@@JohnAbrahamsen There's a difference between tough and abusive.
Tough encourages growth.
Abusive encourages contempt for authority and deception to avoid punishment.
An experienced and professional instructor-pilot learns to sweat only on one side of his or her face. The side facing away from the student.
Hahaha! Good one
@@MentourPilot how about you do an episode about aviation jokes...? Love your videos!
Glad they now send them to Flight simulator first.
Hahaha what an incredible joke...yet probably there's a lot of truth in it
@@alexgrether3662 Here's a funny one, and I understand there is some truth to it. A pilot had just landed at Frankfurt and was dealing with a rude ATC, who asked him, derisively, if he'd ever been to Frankfurt before. The pilot replied "yes I have - twice - in 1943 - but I didn't land". Silence from ATC.
Dear Mentour, i must say that you have a "stabilized approach" for life. If was more ppl like you, our world could be much better place. Keep the good work and keep to be who you are. Love your attitude and personality , you a real mentor for me.
Thank you, I try my best.
He's a bloody terror on the roads though ....😂
@@thomasm1964 I bet he forgets he's in a car and tries to accelerate by pushing the gear stick forward keeping centre of the road markings, trying to keep centerline using the gas and clutch pedal.
I'm not an airline pilot but your your approach to training works in every other training environment as well. Yelling , screaming and belittling does by far more damage than good.
Love your videos.
Keep up the good work.
@@EinkOLED lol
I had an instructor once who was constantly bad tempered and sniping in the air. It left me very low and demoralised. I knew it was wasting my money so I made sure i never flew with him again and got a far better, more professional and even-tempered replacement. Turned out I was a much better student than I thought I was!
Same thing happened to me. I had a yelling and terrible CFI. I put up with him for 5 flights. The 6th flight was the last straw as he was really yelling. After we landed and secured the aircraft I then told him I was finished. I changed my CFI. The flight school fired fired him a week later as there were other complaints.
You can do that if you are flying privately. If you are flying for an airline you have no choice who you fly with.
Having trained many people in my line of work (now retired), I learned that you must never, never do anything that destroys their confidence. To perform well, they must be confident in what they are doing and confident in their trust in you...
As a kid I took riding lessons. I was a very nervous rider, which of course isn't good when working with horses. When my instructor said I could do something, i trusted her enough that i could use her confidence in me to help boost my confidence in myself, so I managed to do things for her, that i would have been too afraid to do otherwise.
@@zottelhuehs6375 Same here, and I learned as an adult. Once an instructor got me round a mini-X-country course on a confirmed 'stopper' when I was scared of jumping a simple pole fence in the school. Her confidence steadied mine, and the stopper went along with both of us and jumped everything kindly for me. I teach artists, and it's very important to be careful with their confidence whilst still being firm in correcting their mistakes, so they gain in confidence from a session rather than lose it. [Though at times it is necessary to trim the over-inflated egos of those few individuals without confidence issues who refuse to believe they don't know everything, otherwise they just don't learn anything.....]
Not just for airplane cockpits, the lessons here are universal. Your colleague, your son, your dog, or her puppies.
The worst teachers are always the ones who shout most
Exactly. One can’t learn if they’re being shamed from someone screaming at them for their mistakes
I'm know this is a common story, but I got yelled at by a math instructor on my first day of the class because I asked a question about something I was supposed to have already known at that level. Being young, new to the school, and therefore not very confident, I did not stand my ground (his expectation of prior knowledge was incorrect, but that's a long story). I wish I could say that I overcame, studied like mad, and became a mathematics professor, LOL, but basically I didn't re-take that level of math class again for over a decade (too late, career-wise). Sometimes there is no excuse for bad teaching.
You've never met an indian have you?
@@greatleader4841 I have Indian relatives lol
I've had good teachers that do that, but its more and more becoming a thing of the past. I had a great CDL driving instructor who taught me things you'd never even think about, and the guy went his 60+ years of driving without ever having a single crash or even minor ticket, and knock on wood, I've yet to have a crash after 25 years on the road and have a clean record. But he was ex-military if I recall, and he would come down on you just hard as can be if you made a mistake.
He was probarbly jealous that he never got to be a fighter pilot
Quite possibly a lot of truth in that.
Or he could be like a manager I used to work for. That guy would always criticize everything and give everyone who worked for him a below average performance review. His justification was that if he ever gave any positive feedback the person under him would stop trying to improve. The actual result is that everyone who worked for him eventually quit.
@@earthwormscrawl Ah yes the law of unintended consequences.
@@earthwormscrawl To de-motivate your coworkers is the worst thing a person in a leadership position can do - equal in which business. You depend on the quality of their work - and the quality of their work depends a.) on their competence - and b.) on their motivation. So you would put yourself also in a loose-loose-situation.
He probably was a fighter pilot as well. Military culture smelling all the way...
The other day I was watching some clips taken on B-17s in WWII, and even in the heat of combat, no one got angry or yelled at anyone. Even direct orders were relayed calmly and clearly. Now THAT's a perfect example or good CRM.
Without good coordination between crew members, a lot more B-17s would've been lost. CRM saves lives!
One can tell just how knowledgeable you are given you've managed to spin a 15 second viral clip into 17 and a half minutes of relevant, informative content.
A true professional
As a Pakistani, I can definitely confirm that it's cultural and it's toxic af...
Lol this was my dad as I was trying to learn how to drive...seems normal to me
@@Knightfall23 oh god same. Haha the trauma is real 🤣😭
@@Knightfall23 Thankfully I was fully aware of CRM before I taught my daughter to drive, and within a couple of weeks we had a good driver and a happy relationship, and four years later we still work as a team when driving. Next daughter starts next year. This video should be compulsory viewing for all fathers teaching daughters to drive. Well or sons I suppose.
This could have been exactly what was happening on the flight deck of PIA that landed in Karachi with the gear up and subsequent crashed.
My guess is Ali you are one of a few that can debate in a civilized manner, I've had a lot of experience with this culture but not all are as aggresive but agree with your comment.
I've met trainers / teachers like that angry man.
There is no positive result for the trainee as the trainee just shuts down, gets angry and feels very low inside and will fail more and more because they can't think anymore.
Whenever I've had trainers like that I've just found another trainer (even if it costs a heap of money).
Thankfully it has only happened a couple of times in my lifetime and the next instructor was 100 times better.
Indeed, I had an instructor once not shouting at me, but giving up on me when I wasn't able to do stuff the first try and saw me as a lost case, I got better with another people with a little more patience and not being dickheads.
@@musicfan5921 A long, long time ago I learned to drive a military truck. Not an aircraft, but anyways. The instructor was shouting at me, causing me to fail all of the time. When I was "a lost cause" I was sent to another instructor. From that second, I performed perfectly. The new instructor did not understand why I was in his "lost cause" class....
without knowing the context it's hard to really judge. Maybe the co-pilot hasn't been listening at all or is an arrogant twot or the trainer could just be having a bad day- though he shouldn't take it out on the student. However, this isn't a kid who forgot their homework or a child who was late for the 15th time to soccer practice. This is a flight and it is inappropriate to jeopardise the safety of the aircraft right then
There was no need to berate the 1st officer like that. This is not an effective method of training. It is not boot camp.
Totally agree with you in the general sense and with what we are presented with, however, we don't know what happened before or after the video, nor do we know the relationship between the 1st officer and the captain. I'm not in aviation although I have had leadership and training roles and quickly discovered that people are not all the same particularly in how they like to receive information and critique of their effort, performance or work product. For example, some respond better and will improve if you put a rocket up them, others want you to be their best friend and respond better in that environment.
@@damo5701 yes, I don't know the English terms but what you are talking about is explanation vs. wake up strategy. Still, zero aggression is required.
Might be the student and the teacher agreed to a "safe word" beforehand? We really don't know the circumstances in total, could be part of their "special" relationship. ;p
I remember boot camp, some of the Marines' instructors were really good at imaginative swearing. I pretty much did what I was told (it was that or the brig), but never gained an ounce of respect for those jokers. Later on there was this Major I stood up to in front of a whole class of soldiers. He conceded his mistake (visibly swallowing his anger). That man, I will never forget. It takes a real man to do that.
Even in boot camp they teach what right looks like before they yell at you lol
I am a driverinstructor in Oslo, and I was educated as that in 1975. I am still working, and you are very correct by telling what the instructor did wrong! You can never be angry at at a pupil. There is no bad pupils, only bad teatchers! Thank's for your vids Peter! Happy New Year, from Arild in Oslo Norway!
I was a hang glider pilot for 23 years. For many years I assisted a CFI instructor. My job was to fly above novice pilots when flying in ridge lift, to give positive feedback once the pilot was out of sight of the instructor.
The point of mentioning this is that many of the "students" were very experienced commercial pilots.
Airforce pilots, Qantas pilots, helicopter pilots, commercial and private pilots.
Apart from having superior aeronautical knowledge, NONE of them learned to fly a hang glider any quicker than anyone else.
This hands on experience confirms to me, that just because the first officer was a pilot in an Air Force, it would count for little when learning to fly a completely different airplane, such as a 737.
Petters' comments in this regard are spot on.
That’s really interesting. Helicopter pilot here. I assumed aviation experience would help with the Learning, it’s interesting that it doesn’t.
That probably indicates how different that type of flying is.
@@chrisbeauchamp5563 in fairness, he did say with the exception of prior knowledge of the theory. I'm not a pilot myself, but I wonder if why they didn't learn wasn't so much because they weren't already used to flying, but because they had to un-learn/modify stuff that was core skills to them. I mean, I would personally have to learn the basics to even be comfortable using a yoke, but I wouldn't have any preconceived notions about it, either.
The summary at the end is brilliant, not only in a cockpit but in every organization from a family to a country or a multinational company. Regardless of any frustration, being the boss means being _responsible for all_ that happens under your watch, and not being the one and only _knowing it all..._
Same as my mum when she tried to teach me to drive. Only thing I got out of it was the ability concentrate whilst some one is screaming at you🤣 (the driving part I got from dad)
Usually Mum is the good cop, and Dad is the bad cop.
My driving instructor used to full stop the car in the middle of busy crossings to yell at me for being hesitant or insecure while everyone around us was honking and flipping fingers. Like "I believe you can do this, if you don't believe that as well gtfo of my car now!" lol. In hindsight that was an awesome stress test lol
Your comments about the breakdown for CRM are spot on.
In fact I believe there are a number of crashes that have, in part, been attributed to the FO not speaking up because they were afraid to contradict the caption.
No one learns what you want when you're screaming at them; they just learn to be afraid of poking the bear.
This was my first thought too. There absolutely have been bad fatal accidents due to poor human dynamics in the flight deck. It’s why during the 80s and 90s that human factors and CRM became so important, because it saves lives.
There was one here on this channel recently about a crash that might have been avoided if the FO had been more forthcoming with his questions.
yes there have i in fact just finished the ACI episode on NW 5719
I believe it was a big legacy of the Tenerife airport disaster, the CRM was emphasised.
There have also been avoidable disasters because even though the FO did speak up, his questions or advice were ignored by the captain.
Many who are extremely experienced at what they do, forget they were once new to it all.
@Newtube pilots, cabin crew and many other vocational workers in other fields have to update their training though
When you see that smile on Petter's face... you know it's gonna be a good video.
The trainer reminds me of a hothead instructor I had years ago. An incident comes to mind: I commented that the plane didn't feel right and he started yelling at me. I quickly ran the takeoff checklist again and found the flap setting was wrong. The only thing I ever learned from that man was to keep my head out of the cockpit during VFR/VMC flight conditions.
I remember an incident a few years ago - I believe it was Air China. The first officer noticed that the captain made some kind of serious error, but he was in so much awe of the pilot's authority that he didn't speak up, and the plane crashed on landing.
This made me think of my driving lessons. The instructor had a habit of raising his voice often.
At one point in time i stalled the engine whilst driving through a busy shopping street. I can't describe the words he shouted at me, luckily it didn't make me deaf.
It's an eerie feeling having all those people look at you in the driver seat and an instructor shout at you.
Later he explained that he overreacted *to show the people in the street how serious he was tutoring* and that's part of the course.
Pro: i learned to drive well and passed the test at the first attempt.
Con: i counted the hours until the end of the course.
that's a really weird thing for him to do. it's obvious you're learning. his objective is to instruct so that you learn. him displaying his seriousness to bystanders in ways that actually damage his effectiveness achieves the opposite of what he wants.
if i ever encounter an instructor/teacher shouting, i'd pity the student and dismiss the instuctor as immature and ineffective.
My first driving instructor was called Gunter; he did nothing except scream “FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER” and "NEIN NEIN NEIN" for most of every lap. Seems like he’s moved on to pilot training...
Shouldn't have foksmashed his door.
@@shawa666 Hahhahahahahahaa
@@tomschwab5619 the drill instructor/drill sergeant mentality in training and coaching is one of the most toxic features of US high school/college world. Overwhelming evidence from throughout the world, except US, is that it makes no difference or makes things worse. Even in the military itself.
Someone in, now deleted comment, talked about becoming an upstanding person because their parents were tough on them. I don't buy that for a second because in the next sentence they rationalized domestic abuse. There's no such thing as everyone gets a trophy and everyone is a special snowflake mentalities.
@@tomschwab5619 He's your instructor
Not your best friend
You shouldn't have to "GeT tO kNoW hIm" or "GeT uSeD tO hIm" to appreciate what he does.
Not much of a training captain if you start yelling insults at the student.
I guess you do not watch a certain cooking show.
@@fk319fk That's not an actual show meant to train chefs or viewers on how to cook. It's an entertainment show first and foremost based around cooking.
@@fk319fk Not sure how that has anything to do with being a training captain on an airplane.
@@Boodieman72 - Life's a hot kitchen - & down to attitude not altitude? : )
@@fk319fk and he’s not much of a person, let alone much of a chef.
When I was in ground school in the 80s we where told that the Captain was the only authority and any comments from the first officer would usually be shut down. In many of the crashes we studied, the transcript of the voice recorder had the first officer pointing out a problem and the Captain shutting the first officer down.
It is a very good thing that that has changed.
I totally agree with you. This can put the aircraft at risk. Reminds me of the two 747's that collided when the Captain of on of the 747's was not properly cleared for take off and the first officer was to scared to speak up. It was a horrible and preventable accident.
That was eons ago, when Captains used to have the "God complex", and expected to be worshipped by everyone! 🙄
@@747-pilot it’s still an example of what can go wrong, and why human factors became so
Important in training. The reason the god complexes are less of a problem is due to the changes in attitudes and training that pushed it out.
At the very least the behaviour of the captain was unprofessional, and at worst risky due to it diverting focus and attention at a critical time, as Peter highlighted.
It sounds like you are referring to the 1977 Tenerife collision of a KLM 747 and a Pan Am 747. Many things went wrong to cause this accident including some unfortunate crosstalk in the radio communication between the aircraft and the tower causing garbled comms. The airport was also shrouded in fog, and yes, the KLM captain was in a hurry to take off. Very sad, as 583 people died. I believe it is still the worst air disaster in history.
Frank Tilson wasn’t that the Tenerife accident?
The flight engineer did speak up, but the captain didn't listen. (if I still remember reading the Wikipedia page right)
I teach crew and race sail boats in high latitudes. Don’t shout. When a skipper shouts he’s betraying his limited comfort zone. It rarely achieves anything. I’ve only ‘yelled’ once. When a crew member that wasn’t taking things seriously nearly killed someone through not paying attention. And even then, it was largely for effect. To make something stick. And it was after the situation was under control.
I've had a sailing instructor that was trying to introduce some stress level in his training by shouting. We were training man over board maneuvers under sail. I think when you as a skipper are in that situation, you are under extreme stress, because if you screw up, someone will die, and not just a pair of fenders getting lost. So, he tried to introduce stress to harden people against that situation...
@@realulli I guess that is understandable so long as the shouting isn't allowed to turn into berating. I could potentially see a similar thing working if simulating a decompression at high altitude or something, somewhat similar in that both are situations where you have minutes to get passengers or crew members out of an environment that absolutely is going to kill them otherwise. I suspect most average people wouldn't keep their head above water much longer in open water than the 10 mins or so the emergency oxygen system would last. I consider myself a fairly decent swimmer but know how exhausting cool water with active swells and waves can get very quickly just sucks the energy right out of you as does an attempt to swim or even tred water in wet clothes doesn't take much for them to feel like lead weights on every movement.
Reminds me of a glider instructor I had when I was in CAP. His name was Ivan, he said he was a defector from the Iranian air force. he sounded exactly the same as that guy lol. When I did something wrong he would bang on the top of his instrument panel and yell super loud. it was so startling in a quiet glider lol
Did he defect or did they thrown him out..? 🤣
That guy must be flying with his dad! 😂😂😂
That’s actually something I wondered lol.
right? they must be related because that's how indians talk to their kids when they fail them.
I grew up with a guy who acted like this. Didn’t help one damn bit. To this day, I want nothing to do with him.
Words to live by: when the screaming starts the listening stops.
Study Korean Air Cargo flight 8509 where the F/O was apparently too scared to speak up.
Indeed
Korean Air Captains were not just verbally abusive, they would physically hit their FOs if a captain felt his authority was being challenged!!
If you watch the Air Disasters on Smithsonian channel, you’ll see that this type of situation was a cause of quite a few airplane crashes.
Similiar scenario for Asiana 214 too, also a Korean airline.
Similiar scenario for Asiana 214 too, also a Korean airline.
Yep, you're completely right about the culture differences. In countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, India, China etc., the gain in hierarchy between an FO and Captain is huge. The Captain is considered the absolute genius and boss and the FO actually calls the Captain "Sir", which would sound absurd in the Western world. It used to be like this everywhere, especially when most pilots had a military background. Then people kept noticing how often the FO knew something the Captain didn't...
The fear of a closely missed disaster can lead also to such anger... but it's totally spot on that two much authority is definitely dangerous while you're counting to have a back up to warn about things can't speak up.
I have enormous respect for flight instructors. In my beginning, I used to ride the stall warning on final and my instructor would just be relaxed all the way to the ground. Although he would remind me all the time, I would keep doing the same mistake. The chief instructor cured me on my pre-solo check ride. He pushed the control as we cleared the trees on final to stop the intermittent beep of the stall warning. I very seldom got stall warning after that. I learned how to fly in a bush pilot school. I could land and take off a Cesna 172 on a 800 ft mud runway. It was fun.
You got Panic Pull on landing. Glad you got over it.. I was a Bush Pilot CFI..
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 I learned so much from them. I remember going to visit another school with a 6000ft paved runway. We invited them to visit us some time. They came and tried to land on the 800 ft temporary runway (taxi lane) while our 3000ft paved runway was being built. They tried twice to land. We laughed, not on air, when they called on the UNICOM and said they were turning back.
@@michelrail What airplane were you operating on that 800' runway?
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 I was flying Cessna 152 (CG-DWJ) mainly, but I also flew Cessna 172 (CF-PTF). This was in the sprint. Sometimes is was rough hard surface, sometimes it was muddy. Although we only had 800ft, we had at least 800 ft front and back of the runway. We would get down to about 20 ft and kept it there until we were over the runway and did soft landing approach. For take off, we did short field take off with 10degree flaps. The faster we got the plane off the ground the better it was.
@@michelrail Were you doing rolling take offs. Another trick is to take off with flaps 10, then 10 knots before Vr 55knots, pop 15 flaps and raise it off the runway, then fly on ground effect to the Vr. When cold you can pop 20 instead of 15. That is to just jump a bit off the draggy grass...
I wish in life Peter, that everyone could bring your level of intelligence and understanding into the training sphere as well as into life in general. Calm, assuring, competent and massively useful. You separate the truly helpful from the truly bullies and the results become obvious....
This reminded me one of my first landings with an ultralight aircraft. I didn't check our speed a brief moment before touchdown.
My instructor said, "and now we will fall". Indeed we lost lift and the landing was kinda rough, I proceeded with touch n' go and briefly confirmed I understood my error.
Apparently it wasn't the last rough landing, but I was always cautious about correct speed since then. What I remember till now is his casual, informative expression..
Later, the instructor told me several stories such as during a stall recovery training, the stick suddenly stuck in almost fully pulled position and it was just resisting all push attempts. At that point he told himself "well, this is it", I guess with the same informative voice. Then he found a small bottle of water was stuck under trainee's stick. So he promptly removed it, recovered and resumed flight, politely asking the trainee that next time it would be great to store such things in secure spaces, which I believe she will remember for the rest of her life.
I am so glad that basically all the flight instructors I've met were really cool people with nerves of steel.
I would pull that training captain's cert ASAP. There is NO excuse for that form of abuse. I may be a retired psychologist, but I would also require he take a psych. evaluation.
As a retired pilot examiner I have to agree, there are other issues going on & driving this.
Spot on.
You must be such a fantastic teacher. I am forever amazed at the parallels between aviation and the medical fields. Same safety issues. Same Interpersonal issues. Same learning environments. From one nurse to one pilot, great video!
This video should be shown to every offshore instructor I have trained. We run into the same situation between mentors, trainers, and trainees. One you start barking and belittling the employee, he shuts down and you get nothing good out of him. Helpful instructive criticism works very well without the drama.
Thank you for bringing up this subject! I believe it is a very important one. I used to hold a ppl with muti-engine instrument rating and gained 800 hours. In my opinion what often is lacking is feedback to the instructors, for the reason you are talking about here. In an early stage of training and for pilots who just started their path to become commercial pilots this kind of behaviour is plain and simple dangerous. At the early stages of training, after first solo flight and also when a pilot has a ppl (a licence to learn) and working on moving on with more training, behaviour like this can very well contribute to deadly accidents.
Another point that probably not are getting through is when the instructor is to late with his instructing. When the student already is trying to correct and the instructor keeps nagging. For example if the student is struggling to maintain altitude in a turn and the instructor keeps repeating the all too obvious "you must keep altitude" over and over again, instead of identifying what it is that the student are doing wrong. It can just be counter productive and generate more and riskier mistakes.
Flight instructors should probably work on this and realize that they are not getting enough feedback them selves. Or can it be that many instructors in early training is just crappy instructors waiting to be sorted out?
I understand that your channel is focused on airline flying but we all have to start somewhere. My self, I never had any plans to become a commercial pilot, I flew a lot during a number of years for my work in my old PA-23-250, travelling around northern Europe as a service engineer.
Your videos are 50% aviation, and 50% psychology. This has been a real surprise to me, and very educational as well.
I was a technician working in the theatre, music and conferencing industry. I often found myself in charge of crews of various levels of experience. If issues occurred I always found the best approach to rectifying them would be to take the person to one side and have a quiet talk with them and try to make them feel comfortable with me explaining and discussing the problem. I think I can only really remember raising my voice twice as there was an immediate, serious safety issue and an immediate stop was needed.
I really enjoyed this analysis and the more of your videos I watch the more I wish I'd had the opportunity to look at pilot training as a career.
when I was in pilot training (commercial helicopter), I had very calm and friendly flight instructors. They always made me feel comfortable, even when I was in a learning plateau.
During the briefing for my flight instructor rating, the very experienced check pilot told me on our way to the helicopter, that I was possibly going to make mistakes during the check ride and that this would be normal and that he would talk to me later about that in a way that I would learn something out of the mistakes (to be made) for my flying career.
I really appreciated his down to earth approach to my "final" check ride. Everything went well and I promised myself that, would I ever be in a comparable position, I would treat my examinees in the same, human way.
A few hundred hours later when I had to do a check ride for the prolongation of a typerating, I had to deal with a check pilot which behaved the total opposite. Not even that he himself was unable to perform / demonstrate emergency manoeuvres on the spot (pedal off landings, for example), but he behaved like a offended kid when something did not work out the way he wanted (when I was in control of the aircraft). I was in my late 20´s then and had to take several check rides with that, well, guy. He was the chief pilot and I wanted to fly for that company. So I kept my mouth shut.
Now, in my 40´s, I would not take that kind of __it again, fly back to the company helipad, get out of the aircraft and leave.
To get to the point: If you have a check pilot which behaves like an _____hole, you should talk to someone in charge about it. Not only does that kind of unprofessional behaviour make you feel really bad, but it also significantly worsens your performance.
If I had had such a person as a flight instructor, I would have definately quitted training (and spent a hundred thousand dollars in the company of a competitor).
Many happy landings.
You're lucky you didn't end up like that Airblue flight that crashed in Islamabad. That Captain was also a textbook insecure narcissist. What happened? He did everything possible to violate all SoPs, flew the plane into the hills and the first officer was heard pleading with him passively to no avail on the CVR all the way to the final seconds before impact. Scary how helpless and powerless he felt even though he saw his own doom looming before him.
The captain reminds me of "the soup nazi" in Seinfeld.
No ATPL for you!
"NO SOUP FOR YOU!"
NEXT !!
You’re pushing your luck little man!
Best Seinfeld episode ever.
I just noticed your port and starboard cushions!
I just noticed them now!
I’m also a 737ng instructor, and I agree 100% with your video explanation. Very good.
The worst justification for anything: "it has always been like this". Whenever someone tries to get away with it you can be certain she or he is a moron.
If I were 20 years younger watching your videos and listening to your brilliant knowledge of this industry would definitely have pushed me to follow in your footsteps and become a pilot. Huge fan 👍👍
Aggression is never effective? Fifty years ago, things that happened in the cockpit tended to become common knowledge among airline personnel. One story that I heard from multiple sources, complete with crew names, involved the flight of a passenger turboprop of a type that had sufficient power to overspeed the airplane in level flight. Being behind schedule on takeoff, the captain decided to make up time by disabling the overspeed warning system and cruising at a speed beyond the VMO/MMO limit. When the first officer protested, the captain ignored him. Whereupon the first officer retrieved a pistol from his flight bag, leveled it at the captain's head and said something like, "Okay, you S.O.B., but if the wings come off, you are going to be dead before we hit the ground." The captain decided to slow the airplane down. Effective.
Conflict creates more conflict.
So he slowed down this flight, but never flew again. - Yea, aggression is never effective! (in a cockpit)
@@Delibro in other words, he survived.
I love what you do, and it really helps me for my future training for an "aviation life". THANK YOU MENTOUR!The first possitive thing about 2021 is that you started uploading daily.
Thank YOU for watching. Glad you are enjoying it
The guy sounds like one infamous Austrian painter: NEIN, NEIN, NEIN, NEIN!!!
It was actually "Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine!" - and he was looking at a map of the world at the time.
@Peter Mortensen Yup.
Wise advice regarding any teacher/student relationship. I was a paediatric nurse educator, it is essential that communication can flow bilaterally without aggressive behaviour. No one would learn anything from that fool in the Left seat. He should NEVER be aloud to instruct anyone ever again.
"this is the way that it has always been done"
If I hear that, then my mindset is always "there is no capacity for improvement here, and I need to find a place with a completely different culture".
We'd still be living in caves, with a life expectancy of 35 years, if we had put up with such arguments.
The moment when you realize good CRM is a vital skill for all fathers too...
Happy New Year to you and your family (doggos included), Petter. I assume the camera was there for "training purposes"), i.e. to assist with the debrief. I sure hope that training captain got a debrief of his own after that flight - for an attitude adjustment (and maybe a refill on his mercury pill prescription). All I know is that if I'm a passenger in an airliner I would hate to think that the pilot in control is being distracted like that at a critical time like landing. Love your content.
There was a quote from one of the poets in my country saying 'I never learned anything from someone who didn't love me.'
NEVER yell at a student. That will a) freak them the hell out now; and b) instill a fear of the captain, causing them to not speak up when the captain makes a mistake. This has brought down airliners before.
13:33 Talking about the first officer becoming too passive, I am immediately reminded of Korean Air Cargo Flight 8509. The captain's ADI was malfunctioning, but the first officer's was working fine. During take-off, the captain started dangerously banking to the left, following his faulty ADI, but the first officer, according to the CVR, said _nothing,_ and they crashed and died.
This video was too short! NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!!! 😂😂
Hes is a Pakistani Captain . Its a culture here especially in our CAA where inspectors do like this and many captains in PIA too ! So its always very stressing for young FOs.but very well put together Mentour pilot . 👍👍
Guys+girls the captain is absolutely right, I’ve mentioned my experience before in the enter air video where a similar thing occurred, I was verbally and almost physically assaulted by a captain for not ‘doing as I was told’, it was a horrible experience that will stay with me for life. There are some horrible captains out there, be mindful of that and hope you don’t encounter one... thanks for sharing captain 🧑✈️
Excellent video, Peter. This "instructor" should definitely take an anger management course.
I don't think this is good at all. Anywhere, let alone the cockpit where 2 people are supposed to fly the plane as more-less equals. You act like this, and you can forget about any feedback in the future from the student. And this is really bad if you are doing something together. Flying, no flying.
Correct
Any good* feedback.
You summed it up perfectly by saying that the student doesn’t remember any lessons because he is only thinking to not flare up the dragon on the left.
I started watching this vid as I was watching Mayday episode 2 season 11 called killer attitude. This episode was about the crash of Northwest Airlink 5719. The conclusion was the frosty cockpit between a green first officer and a cocky captain who berated the first officer repeatedly to point the first officer was afraid resulting in total breakdown of CRM. This episode is exactly about what the message of this vid is about and this accident maybe the one that brought about the importance of CRM.
Having spent almost 10 years being 'instructed' in this way up to my late 20s in a sport, this was really triggering to watch. It wasn't until I eventually gained some maturity and was less vulnerable and impressionable that I developed some perspective and realised it is completely disrespectful and unnaceptable to treat students like this. At best it is simply unnecessary, but at worst it can be extremely harmful.
Thank you Mentour pilot for highlighting this issue and encouraging the cultural shift in teaching attitudes which fortunately does seem to be occurring.
These rotten interactions inside of cockpits have caused numerous crashes through the years...
In the contrary, good CRM have already prevented a lot a deaths.
The last part is accurate. Auditory exclusion is a thing: when you suddenly turn a relatively stressful situation into a highly stressful situation the student isn't going to hear you.
This is a classic case of someone who has a skill that someone believes they will teach well. Teaching is a talent. The person with the skill must have the passion to impart their own knowledge and the skill to teach their skill. Nice job in presenting this.
Not only in the cockpit but in Everyday life ! This is not a productive way to communicate.
Liking for the pure irony of the profile pic and the comment♥️😂
Another fine example of what makes Petter the consummate professional that he is. Excellent commentary Sir.
Thank you!
Thank you for teaching your way! Its so important for all work environments and even for our private home and with kids!
Petter you are an inspiration to us all in your attitude to aviation. An instructor should inspire confidence in the trainee. The trainee will make mistakes. You stay calm and evaluate if this mistake is critical to the aircraft’s safety. I am sure in these cases you would shout out ‘my controls’ and stabilise the aircraft. It is always a pleasure to listen to your advice.
If the pilot was a military fighter pilot, that might explain why his alignment on the centre line was off. If he's used to sitting in a single seater he won't be used to parallax when lining up from a side seat.
Fortunately too, if the PF was a military fighter pilot, he has plenty of experience in letting the ravings of a bloviating windbag slide right off his back.
@@HalfShelli I don't know if you are going to be able to ready this reply - 9 months - I'm afraid not... shouting and screaming orders has been banned in the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force with the exception of assertive direct orders in emergency situations - and even then the first sailor or airman/woman on the scene (or having the controls at the time) is the officer in charge of the emergency response until the de-brief and then a top officer can take charge of the de-brief.
and this means - in ANY circumstances.... raising a voice over a distance ... for example on a parade ground is different from shouting an order in other circumstances... you also may shout to call a subordinate over to you so you can talk to them quietly face-to-face.
So, even if the FO was ex-forces he would NOT be used to being shouted at in the flight deck.
Swedish Airforce pilot training had a reputation to be hard and tough and unforgiving in the 1950s and 1960s I think. Then there was this big change to the present system that is similar to the attitudes for modern CRM as you mention here. Now every misstake or deviation that a student pilot does is discussed as something to learn from and not to be critizised for. And as I have understood it, this positive attitude and behavior is now implemented all over and has contributed to fewer fatal incidents.
A yelling Swede would be so out of the ordinary as shouting would be in an Ingmar Bergman movie ! LOL
Well.. it can go to far. I wouldn't b surprised if the swedish af was dismantled tomorrow bcoz racism/lack of diversity/planes not pride flag colored/etc woke bs..
Too far I mean
@@kungfreddie I don't think @Sagittarius was on about being _WOKE_ the Royal Navy makes it a CRIMINAL offence and classifies unnecessary shouting as mutinous behaviour. The notion of 'jamming signals' a mutinous act - whoever performs it - is taken into the human factors context too ... if you are jamming someone's thought patterns then that is serious do do in the RN and can land you in the brig or dishonorably discharged.
Only contextual shouting is permitted - i.e for an officer to call over someone to speak to them quietly or on a parade sqaure - or in an emergancy and even then the officer in charge is THE first sailor (and in the RN sailors can also be air crew) who is at the scene or spots the dangerous occurrence happening.
only after the incident will a 'senior' officer lead a de-bried.... _EXCATLY IN THE SAME WAY AS MENTOUR DESCRIBES_
I am ex-RN by the way.
I can not give this video enough likes! Thank you for a very constructive, positive and informative analysis of this. Not everyone has the ability to effectively teach unfortunately. You touched on leadership and mentorship in your talk which is an integral part of effective teaching. This talk can be applied to so many other disciplines. Thanks again.
It works both ways too. I once shut down 1/4 of an Underground system by closing the wrong switch. My trainee asked if I was sure, and I was lol. No anger was involved though. Friday evening at 20.30. It got a mention on the newspapers. No injuries, but it took 20 minutes to get the trains running again. Only 3 months demotion.
That captain's behavior was UNACCEPTABLE!
I'll wager that "instructor" is timid as hell around his wife, and her boyfriend.
On the Indian subcontinent, I doubt it. Probably bullies people at home too.
@@SA_.377 Yes, people that bully their coworkers don't stop when they get home.
Wait...around her *what*
@@windhelmguard2328 or _HIS_ secret boyfriend
Mwahahahahahahahahaha!!🤣😆😄
This is very important advice for any kind of teacher/trainer, not just in aviation. If you lose your cool, you lose in your objective of teaching. And kudos to Mentour for managing to fill as much as the whole first half of the video with objective safety-related analysis/suggestions, before focusing on the soft skills / CRM aspect (not that the latter is less important).
I never liked getting yelled at or insulted in flight training, when I was concentrating on flying. It distracted me and amplified negative emotions as well as damaging my confidence. IPs that were friendly and patient allowed me to graduate. IPs that are so arrogant as to think that yelling makes them more intelligent and better leaders don't realize they are displaying hostile mental illness symptoms at dangerous moments.
I get that kind abuse from my co-pilot from time to time when I am the pilot flying. She happens, however, to be my wife, so it is imperative to not talk back.
Your comment is probably meant to be humorous, but if one partner speaks to another in such a manner, then it is straight-up abuse and should not be tolerated. This is like how "wife beating" is no longer tolerated.
Haha! Funneh. :)
@@Eternal_Tech I bet you're a real hoot at the party aren't you, Debbie Downer?
@@Dr_Kenneth_Noisewater What do you do at parties, saunter around yelling at women?
@@HalfShelli Whatever else I may do, I at least recognize a joke. You should try it.
Thank you for yet another brilliant video on CRM, how can one identify airlines with a more healthy apporach towards these safety aspects?
Most airlines keep this attitude.
Start with pilot unions and what their relationship with an airline is like. Lots of litigation can be a red flag on both sides. A union constantly bringing wrongful termination lawsuits on an airline that actively fires pilots for policy violations and misconduct can be a sign that the airline takes those incidents seriously and has a low tolerance for that behavior. A cooperative relationship between a union and an airline can also be a sign that the company values their pilots and it’s reflected in their Collective Bargaining Agreement.
@@MentourPilot it makes it real hard to believe that the Just Culture is actually Just.
I've seen some Mayday episodes where an abusive pilot has made mistakes that were not brought up by the right seat, resulting in disaster. Scary... and BTW, your videos, Petter, make Mayday look pedantic. Very well done, mate! Chapeau!
Reminds me of the incidents of Asiana San Francisco, the KLM in the Canary Islands, and the Koean Airlines in Guam. In any team situation, you need all eyes, ears and experience to be the safest possible.
This dude is one of my favorite aviation pilot youtubers ngl
He's the Gordon Ramsay of aviation.
There's that infamous Lockheed Tristar crash in England where the bad blood in the cockpit brought the CRM down to the point where the Captain wouldn't even talk to the First Officer. So he made a sharp upward gesture with his hand to signal to raise the gear after the takeoff. The First Officer retracted the leading edge slats.
Staines was a Trident aircraft not a Tristan.
“HARD RIGHT SAMIR, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING? HARD RIGHT!” This is what I was thinking the entire time the captain was talking.
"I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Sounds like me with a few of my students. Lol. UNACCEPTABLE! Great point on being active on the controls. The challenge with that is when they are first learning to land. Like teaching someone how to ride a bike. You have to help, but how much. It took me 500 hours of instruction given to figure it out.
No one should ever go through this. My short career as a Private Pilot, the greatest ever was the CALMEST. His name was Frank Hardy, when you made a mistake he would always explain calmly and you never made the same mistake again. EVER. This instructor, YOU'RE FIRED.
I don't know if you have children but if you do, I have to imagine you are just as a fantastic father as you are a pilot and mentor ❤️
Much joy and kindness wished for you and your family and thank you for sharing this with us
This is a life lesson, not just an aviation lesson.
Allways interesting to se your content. I have been a gliderpilot for many years until I got health problems and become grounded. I work as a arts and crafts teacher (slöjdlärare) for children and I have now found that I have the same approach to learn my pupils the scills for crafts. Always a postive comment if they have a good idea and positive debriefing when it goes wrong for them. And it is so amazing to see how much they grow in their learning and dare to have crazy ideas. And also för me to admit that I did wrong then something goes wrong for the children due to my instructions. Happy new year! and I looking forward to see more of your interesting content in 2021.
UNACCEPTABLE! :D
In all reality though, I totally agree with you about the need to keep one's cool in the cockpit. If a pilot loses their head in a moment like this, I'd venture to bet that they can't keep their emotions in check during an emergency, or at least their emotions might cloud their good judgement. A solid pilot should strive to make the cockpit a neutral territory, IMO, because there's so much at stake.
If that was me in the cockpit he would have been getting some direct feedback on his toxic behaviour . Training captain or not !! Your there to learn . This guy is creating a personal culture of fear !!
You are brilliant, articulate, resourceful and your analysis comprehensive and top notch. Glad I subscribed to your channel. Greetings from Kenya..