(481) Are Fuses from AliExpress and Amazon really dangerous? How to test yours!
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- When I saw this video from Louis Rossmann or this one by Tom, a fellow HAM radio operator, I said to myself: Holy shit! I use these car fuses a lot, and I always expected that they protect my circuits from overcurrent and possible burning, but I never checked if they work. Particularly since I started to work with Lithium batteries capable of delivering huge currents and even burning if you are unlucky, the danger increased dramatically. Do I also have bad Chinese stuff? I am sure you want to know the truth, too. So, let’s check out my fuses from AliExpress and Amazon and compare them with the proper ones from Bosch. And I will show you how you can test yours without expensive gear.
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For a 100% test: You measure the resistance of your first fuse using the 4-wire method. Then you do the test. If the fuse is ok, you can measure the resistance of all your other fuses and compare it without blowing them. The good ones should have a similar resistance.
You would think that all fuses of a given rating and size should have a specific nominal resistance. We want more! (sorry to steal your line) How about measuring the resistance of the Bosch fuses, along with the standard deviation... to provide a reference. Then compare that to the Chinese twins
@@jamesmichener7526 They were very similar (I mentioned it briefly). The bad ones seem to have much lower resistances, a sign that they used high-value fuses and repackaged them.
My concern is a bit different. I never use the automotive style fuses anywhere in my designs and also have not met them in any of my measuring instruments. But the 5 millimeters (or the 1/4 inch American) cylindrical ones are something I deal with. As well as some BIG powere electronics types. There I pay attention to their rated Interrupt Capability. I see a related number as the specified maximum Circuit Voltage. Even a reputable manufacturer of American fuses specifies their 15 to 30 A 1/4 inch fuses for use no more than 32 V, while their lower current fuses in the same housing is rated 125 V. That is based on their Interrupt Capability, which the lay people have minimal or no concept. I have chosen to avoid the “empty”, glass tube type fuses in general, at least for more than 1 or 2 A nominal rating. Instead I want to have the ceramic, sand filled ones, as they can interrupt much higher prospective short circuit currents, >200 A, rather than a few tens of amperes. Simply put, the internal sand quenches the arc when the fuse has to interrupt currents and VOLTAGES that could cause a continued arc and explosion of a plain fuse in a fault situation. The safety codes talk about fuse co-ordination and backup fuses even for breaker units. But enough said!
@@InssiAjaton FWIW, this american uses two standard sizes of tubular glass fuses: 5mm X 20mm and 6.4mm X 25.4mm. The latter is a 1/4inch fuse. I've never seen a 5mm in higher than 32VDC while the 1/4in (6.4mm) are available up to 250VAC (in at least some amp ratings, as you noted). The D.C. vs. A.C. is important.
What are your thoughts on Linear Array Solid State LiDAR Sensors? Does it bring anything useful in comparison to single beam?
I tested all my fuses and they blew according to spec, so I know they are good, put them back in the box for future use 😂
:-))
This is the problem you know the ones you tested worked, the untested ones are still dubious as the quality control shown by other you tubers can very.
Funnily enough, it is possible to test a fuse without blowing it. e.g. czcams.com/video/RaSp_lY3E2U/video.html
@colinstamp9053
Fantastic video. I learned a lot watching it. Really though my intuition of how things react was greatly increased.
It was really cool to see the resistance being so linear to the current. Until it wasn’t 🤓
@colinstamp9053
To be more precise he was measuring the voltage drop across the fuse. So the voltage drop increased linearly to the current.
Until it didn’t.
There is an Electronic Engineering joke about testing fuses! Yep that worked…. Yes that worked…. Yes that worked! Ah no more fuses :-)
:-)) Indeed, without ordering a few more, I would have had exactly this problem...
i will mayb buy 300 and test 250 and mean it out
@@uiopuiop3472 It's probably best if you buy a pack and test 1 or 2 of each rating and if they're good, that batch is probably good. The brand will change every few months so just know your specific batch is good when bought
But what if the next one will be the bad one?😂
@@TomasNovotny-ep5br that what the mean values protect from
I caught Louis' video the day he published it. As I'm a US citizen, I immediately reported the video to the US Consumer Product Safety Commission. Turns out, especially for a government agency, they are fairly responsive. In a couple business days I got an acknowledgement thanking me for the tip, and noted their Internet team is looking into claims like this. Good to hear my tax dollars are at work. Hopefully they are eventually able to put a dent in the supply of bad fuses like Louis found. That's a serious fire hazard.
I agree that it is a danger. That is why I made the video… good to know they will disappear.
They're already at work to take down the video! ;-)
Oh my sweet summer child.
@@michaelgleason4791it's kinda cute actually, he thinks something will happen lol it must be nice to be so naive about the world
there are so many dangerous and dubious products from china
that aint stopping shit
Just knowing the lack of quality that can come from Aliexpress, EBAY, and even Amazon, I stopped buying fuses from those sellers and started only getting brand name ones from digikey, mouser, or local stores that had a reputation. I also found AGC fuses from China to not be the same diameter and length as spec fuses, being slightly smaller on each dimension, which had me also concerned about quality. This is a great video for those who want to be safe.. thank you!
As adults, we have to decide and carry the risk. But to do so, we need information. When I bought my assortments, I did not know about those problems (as many of the thousands of other buyers, I assume). Now at least a few people know...
These days Amazon is selling the same products as you find on AliExpress and eBay.
Don't buy anything important which might be counterfeit from Amazon.
Yeah me too but I actually couldn't find an affordable brand name fuse kit for 5x20mm fuses that had a decent assortment of values and the two no-name kits I bought were completely unsafe.
I buy the AliExpress ones. I find they're a lot more resilient than the others...
We used to blow a lot of fuses as part of our FSAE team. To save money I ended up going to the junk yard and pulling good fuses from old cars. Lots of cars still have the OEM fuses in them so it’s a great source of high quality fuses for cheap.
Good idea!
Or learn to use heat shrink, and you won't blow as many fuses in the first place
@@gorak9000 What does heat shrink have to do with circuit breakers?
Fuses also wear out, every part that carries current wear out.
@@mekkertroniker2002 That could make for an interesting video. Testing old fuses to see how closely they match the original specs. I do agree it’s probably a bit easier to blow, but I’d rather have that over the cheap fuses that don’t blow.
Andreas, thanks for the video. Tell your wife how IMPORTANT your lab is to the rest of us!!!! Keep on going, my friend. 73!!
Wilco!
During my internship my mentor decided to showcase how the fuses blow, saving the system.
However later we were astonished to see that the 10 amp fuse didn't blow at 25 amps!
At that point, all the engineers came around and all started placing bets on when it would blow! 35 amps did the trick 😂
Different fuses seem to have different curves, particularly if motors are involved. 3.5 times more current would not be acceptable for a car fuse.
That sounds dangerously funny lol
There are different types of fuse, Stack Exchange has a discussion on slow blow vs fast acting.
A regular fuse for home use that is rated at 16A often only blows below 80 amps.
Everything below that needs time to heat it up enough.
Fuses from reputable vendors have full sets of specifications within which they have to fall (e.g. time to blow at 110% rating, 150% etc.), and also voltage rating. The voltage rating is important, especially now vehicles with 48V+ are getting more common, as above this voltage the fuse is not gauranteed to provide full insulation once it has blown. Even the reputable brands start at 32V rating, and I wouldnt trust the no-name fuses without a spec sheet and the certification of their performance. The companies pushing these uncertified safety components should be held to account, as the saying goes "Safety standards are written in blood".
I agree.
@@AndreasSpiess It is quite an eye-opener when you start to look into the technology behind fuses, as most people dismiss them as a simple piece of thin wire which burns out usually at an inconvenient time.
I worked in technical support for one of the largest electrical distributors in the UK some years ago and learnt a hell of a lot about fuse types and rating etc from the older and wiser engineers about such an innocuous component. Specifications such as voltage rating (a.c. and d.c. rating) , breaking capacity, I^2t characteristics, temperature derating etc. are vitally important when specifying the correct fuse for a specific job and if you can't use a reliable fuse you're wasting your time and risking fire, explosion or worse.
This problem of out-of-spec and even counterfeit fuses doesn't end with automotive fuses. I was involved with some counterfeit BS1362 fuses that were being sold by the UK's largest DIY sheds which were extremely dangerous. Samples of the fuses were tested at ERA Technology (One of the 2 UK certified test houses for BS1362 fuses who put the ASTA mark on them) with shocking results and a video showing one of the tests is here on CZcams: czcams.com/video/KVJVswLbqaA/video.html
By the way, fuses don't "Blow", they "operate" 😁
>The companies pushing these uncertified safety components
I'm pretty sure it's not "the companies" but people cheaping out on components
6:33 - you might want to check the specs on your IR thermometer. That red laser is just an aiming aid. The actual measurement is being taken over an area considerably larger. The size depends on the model of thermometer and the distance. To get pinpoint accuracy, you probably need to upgrade to a IR camera so you can see what is getting hot.
You are right. But I used my skin as a second „thermometer“. And it indicated no danger.
@@AndreasSpiess ah, the thermal imaging finger :) I've be using it for years!
@@bazzaar1869 In conjunction with the Mk1 Eyeball, most testing jobs are covered 😁
Using alligator clips for your test are not ideal. (unless that is what you use in the application) You should use good quality fuse clips soldered as normal. The fuse clips act as a heatsink for the fuse, cooling it and modifying the trip current.
Now retired, I used to design equipment for an electronic manufacture. Some of our products included fuses. The fuse clips, and the pcb it was soldered to, were factors in the continuous current capability of the fuse. Of course ambient temperature mattered. For some products we had to use beryllium copper fuse clips because regular fuse clips would fail under high current (20 amp) long term load.
I agree. However, my expectation was that the fuse blows below one second @10A. So I did not expect too much heat transfer in this test.
Not surprised about AliExpress products quality.
Everyone who encounters bad sellers or products should report that and give negative feedback.
That will help everyone.
That is what I do. And dispute also small amounts. Only if it hurts it will change ;-)
the problem is that lately, we are getting worst products on Amazon than on Aliexpress.
Fuses are quite a huge topic with 48V DC Solar Battery setups (DIY setups). You have to look at the KA (kilo ampere) rating because lifepo4 batteries can cause huge short-circuit currents, which may sustain an arc (will result in a fire for sure).
fuses for extremely high amperage situations are in an entirely different class from those Andreas was testing. He seemed to be testing those we were likely to be using in our electronics or automotive projects. Channels that deal with solar power projects would be more likely to provide you the information you are searching for.
Indeed, jeffschroeder is right. I use entirely different fuses for that purpose. And I am not equipped for testing them.
Fuses in engine compartments ought to be de-rated as they are preheated by about 50°C. They will blow sooner, if they don't fail due to mechanical vibration. The latter being a diagnostic nightmare if the break is intermittent.
Indeed, the environment. In a car is hard. Particularly in hot or humid countries. This is why I always have a spare fuse with me…
If you repair her stuff, she will stop questioning your expense’s;)
Good advice!
Yep! That’s why her things always work - and mine always need repairs…
(18 years and counting…🙏🪛💡🪫)
And then she will say to your daughter: Never marry an engineer, you will never have anything new, he will fix everything..
Great knowledge. I had no clue I should be worried about fuses being crap quality.
For testing automotive fuses car batteries are probably the simplest choice because you will definitely own one if you need fuses for a car. You need to adjust the amount of resistors/resistance you put in, though. Car batteries are easily capable of multiple hundred amps output.
Also a good idea. My car is parked far from my lab, so I went this way.
Thanks Andreas, great as usual.
One could use a car battery as power source - plenty of juice in there, and saves your 'precious ' 18650 gear from abuse.
I agree. Just change the resistor.
I'm glad Andreas didn't get too angry and... blow a fuse. ;)
:-))
Andreas, if you think those are dodgy, you should test the resetable version of those fuses!
Another viewer suggested also resettable fuses. But they seem to be quite expensive (>10$ each)
@@AndreasSpiess If you google "resetable blade fuse for car" you can find them from less than $2 USD up. I did some rough tests and they are slow and not very accurate. I know you're busy, but you might do a lot of people a favor by reviewing them.
can't believe i only found your channel this week. this fuse video was eye opening, and i've been playing with circuits for 30 years (i'm no expert, however). excellent work for all skill levels. cheers from Alaska!
Thank you for your kind words!
All fuses have a time current curve (and so do circuit breakers).
Circuit breakers will trip EVENTUALLY at rated current - which is why they provide superior protection.
Blade fuse replacement circuit breakers are available if protection rating is critical. Circuit breaker’s typically drop 1V at the rated current (which can be important at low voltages).
Thank you for the additional info!
Fuses also have other important aspects of specifications. This includes ensuring that they do not explode, that they are able to extinguish the arc, etc.
These are not elements that are replaced every day. I also believe that it is definitely not worth saving on them - because they usually protect much more expensive elements, and sometimes it is for safety reasons.
I have built some 60v battery packs. I decided using these spade fuses are a bad idea since they might arc for a long time after blowing.
@@ecospider5 High current current can be a real pain in the ass for fuses, as if the arc gap is not big enough they just arc over and the current stays flowing until something burns out. May be a magnet can be placed next to the fuse to drag the arc away from the contacts to increase the arc gap and extinguish the flame. in the same way they do with high power DC relays.
true
In Zimbabwe, there is no smorgasbord of variety, only cheap ones
@ecospider5 that's because these fuses are rated for 32V (24V nominal). 6.3mm and especially 10mm ceramic fuses are a very good and cheap option for higher DC voltages.
@@mrfrenzy.
Thanks for the search terms. I really don’t like the fuse holder options for those. But when I just searched for them I found some with leads soldered to both ends. That’s kind of perfect for the type of projects I do. So thanks for that.
I just did some quick tests on my cheap generic assortment from ali. Most were at least in the 'okay-ish' range like Andreas' (breaking in a couple of seconds at 2x the rated current) but I got one 3A fuse (out of a total of 9 3A fuses tested) that withstood at least 3 minutes at 6A. I'm definitely gonna get myself some more reputable ones.
Thank you for sharing your results. Good decision!
Why I wouldn't rely on Andreas method. If one blows on spec, doesn't mean the all will. I was like you and tested a number of them in a pack I had from Amazon. Some blew regular, some slow, some went for minutes before i gave up/ran out of amps. So I just tossed all Alliexpress/Amamzon fuse and order a whole bunch from Digikey.
This is very approachable test method! Thank you for the guidance
You're welcome!
Years ago, I was working as a dispatcher at the police station, a bad storm blew in and then lightning hit the building. There was a loud bang, then everything was dead, including the lights. It blew the fuses (all black) in all the radios and scanners and blasted the connector on the rear of the Motorola radio into pieces (just the cord left). I replaced all the fuses and was amazed that they all still worked, including the Motorola transceiver just needing some resoldered wires. It took out two breakers in the main panel on the wall, but we just doubled up some wiring temporarily and everything was back. I've had a new respect for name brand fuses since then in my own stuff.
Cool story! You were very lucky, I think.These days, I am not sure if your damage would be so small because high voltages usually kill the delicate ICs, not the current. I assume you had a very high voltage inside your building back then.
@@AndreasSpiessA couple of ham radio guys showed up right after, brought some equipment and tested the transceiver and the antenna (and brought a soldering iron). They were the real heroes of the story, but the main radio fired right up after a power cord repair. I was amazed.
I guess the future will be active fuses like tesla does in cars! It´s just a FET instead of a fuse and a current measurement shunt and a comperator which kills the gate voltage to the FET.. + an PWM from an IC + a small capacitor to generate the voltage to compare to!
You can implement "intelligent" fuses that way, which for example have different current limits and trigger characteristics depending on operating state of the connected circuit, you can switch on/off circuits from your IC that way, thereby integrating "fuse" functionality and control (on/off) in one function.
Well possible. Most relay are also replaced by transistors and SSRs.
Next time wife tells you to get rid of your stuff, tell her you'd do it as soon as she gets rid of her shoes! 🤣
:-))
I believe there is another very important specification that should be tested for high current lithium battery systems. I note that the fuse spec shown in video has a short circuit breaking current of 1000 amps at 32v max. Some fuses (particularly in DC circuits) can create an arcing situation even after the fuse burn out that keeps the current flowing. To test this, one needs to short the full voltage of the battery system through the fuse with high current operational wiring. This is a dangerous test and one should have standby cable cutters. I used only the current stunt resistor in this test which will also be in the operational system (and also can be connected to an oscilloscope for current measurements). With a 29 volt battery the different fuse types would typically blow between 1000 and 2000 amps. For higher voltage battery systems the fuses tested in the video should not be used. Special fuses filled with sand for arc suppression are needed. Thanks for your great videos.
As a builder of a 7kW Lifepo4 battery, I agree. They are very strong and you have to pay attention.
However, I use different fuses there, not 5A car fuses…
I bought a whole bunch of fuses for my UPS battery cells, only to discover that the max voltage is only 32V and they are low interrupt current.
Now I am in the market for a Class T / high interrupt rating 60V fuse.
Indeed, the voltage rating is also essential for some applications. For car batteries, it is usually 24V only.
I had one of these cheap unbranded fuses in my car. One day I found the inside of my car full of smoke. There had been a short circuit due to me installing a radio too far back which shorted the wiring loom behind it. When the fuse blew it kind of melted into a blob which shorted out both sides of the fuse and turned into a great conductor. I have never used a cheap fuse ever since.
That was really bad luck!
Great video, glad your fuses from AliExpress worked ok, as I've recently purchased a similar power distribution board from there. Will be looking at the fuses received to double check 👏👏👍
I hope they are ok!
Oh, so they exist. Interesting. I had one of those 300pcs assorti kits and like you had been giving them away as well, but after seeing the video by the ham radio guy I tested them using a 5A car battery charger. I could not get any of the 5A, 3A or even 2A fuses to blow. So... I had to try and retrieve the fuses I gave away, and I put them all in a bag for further experiments.
Unfortunately I cant test the large current fuses. But I will never trust unknown fuses again unless I know exactly where they came from. (And probably test 1 or 2 of the lower range types using a charger).
Your "call back" was a good idea!
I discovered a blown 5A tail light fuse in my vehicle and all I had as a replacement was a Chinese fuse. Great point, I'll be testing these fuses.
Good idea!
Tested a couple of chines 5 amp fuses. 1 brand dit not blow at 15 amp even after a minute or so! Thx
Thank you for sharing your results. Definitively time for a change…
I lucked out, only bought 1 pack years ago, tested the samples that I had the ability to test: they blew around their rating (which was twice what I needed in that circuit)
Thank you for sharing your results!
Fuses are a total minefield. We used to have to carry US, UK, CE rated fuse as they all had different spec. for example the 'slow blow' US fuses could not be replaced with a UK slow Blow of the same rating as they were specc'd differently. So we would need to put a far higher UK rated fuse in to stop it blowing with the surge. To the point the cct board could go up in flames with constant current!
A total pain. Also in the UK the fuse in the plug is NOT there to protect the device but only to protect the cable (flex). yet people still often just leave a 13A fuse in the plug when it is connected to a 5A flex (they make 1,2,3,5,7,10 and 13A fuses) Also if I remember correctly (going back too many years since I did the course) For a fuse to be in spec (13A plug fuses) if you had 1.5 times overload then the fuse must blow within 4HOURS!! (they are designed for shorts). So if you had a10A fuse then you could pull 15A through it for 3 hours 59 mins and then it blew the fuse was in spec. You were long dead mind lol.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am no expert at all. But I found that it is good to know that there are issues and how to at least check if you are in big danger.
@@AndreasSpiess The reason for the plug fuse in the UK is because the mains sockets are on a 'ring main' with 32A MCB's. EU generally has individual feed to sockets.
the point about protecting the wiring is spot on. No fuse will be fast enough to protect the electronic equipment. Normally you pick the wiring to cope with the power demand and then pick the fuse to protect the wiring.
This is a good reason to use breakers. More expensive but SUPER easy to test
Agreed if you have the space.
I was gonna say that LiFePO4 is not pronounced 'life eppo 4' but honestly i love your mini mispronunciations
Great idea using the electronic load - it surprised me I was only thinking in terms of the power _supply_, not the drain. It’s funny how sometimes you need to flip your thinking, it was one of those facepalm moments for me when you mentioned the electronic load 🤦♂️ Great video as always! 👍
Indeed, out of the box is sometimes easy…
Also if you have access to a datasheet there are 2 important numbers. Theres a must blow curve and a must not blow curve. Just because your results differ from the value on the label doesn't necessarily make it out of spec or illegal unless they provide a standard (like ISO 18894 or whatever it was) or a datasheet.
I thought that these values are included in the curves (forever to blow=must not blow)
thanks Andreas, very helpful video. time to test my fuses too.
Good idea!
I had a customer have a wire melt in a correctly fused automotive harness years ago. The fuse was unbranded junk from Amazon. He had more, so I tested a couple. They were way outside spec. You can't go wring with Littelfuse, MTA, or other OEM brand fuses if you care about the application.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I agree with the brands you mentioned. For the rest, you have to be careful.
This is why professionally sourced parts cost more.
Also if you working as a professional in the electrical industry in Europe every part you use has to be traceable.
So Amazon and AliExpress parts do not comply with this requirement.
Like it or not it is the reason behind approved standards.
For myself when I worked in the UK as a registered electrician BS 7671 Wiring Regulations is the standard I used as guidance, and every part I used had its own relevant standard that it had to comply with.
In the end you get what you pay for.
I agree.
Someone who's more motivated that I am could come up with an inexpensive fuse qualifier. You won't be able to test all the parameters, but as far as current and time you could. Use an ESP32, OLED display, a high current FET, and the other miscellaneous bits. Program it with a set of nominal fuse curves, user interface to specify the amperage and any other interesting parameters, then start the test. If the fuse doesn't blow after some point, the processor can kill power to it. It'd be a pretty good basic entry level project for someone.
Go for it!
in my e-scooter (german brand) once a fuse burned (25A). It has burned because they didn’t installed it probably. one leg was displaced. the fuse and holder were isolated with kapton tape. i replaced the holder with one of the “water proof” black once you showed in your video. I may install a temp. measurement circuit with a buzzer :)
Thanks for your effort the idea to measure the time with your scope is intelligent.
Danke Peter
Check if these "waterproof" holders have thick wires for 25A (mine do not have it).
Thanks, yes they are from Hella and rated for 30A fuses - i measured around 3.5mm2. the wires to the batteries seems to have slidly less then 4mm2.
You can blow a fuse in two ways, one is overload, the other is a dead short, some may claim that it is the same, but not in my textbook.
My experience with these kind of fuses is that they in real life most often blows at a dead short, I know that other peoples mileage may vary. So the way I see it is, that a fuse that may be slow is better than smart Joe's universal fuse replacement like nails, a small piece of wire, and the list goes on, the fuse is there to protect the wire not the gear connected to the wire.
During a "dead short", the capabilities of the source is important. For "potent" batteries, I agree what you describe.
as always - informative, educational and well presented.
Glad you think so!
The sound at 8:52 got me to frantically search for a short circuit in my surroundings 😊
:-))
The problem with power supplies and cheap electronic loads is that they often pulse their outputs and inputs. And for some really bad supplies that might actually cause lower average current flow than reported
I would not consider my load as „ cheap“ ;-). But I have to check my cheap battery tester if it behaves as you describe.
@@AndreasSpiess I didnt mean your load in particular. Just in general. Tho I have some quite expensive equipment that does its job very well until that very specific use case where its worse than literally everything else. Tho for electronic loads I only got a cheapo and that think loves to resonate. With one of my PSUs the PSU and Electronic load just bounce around with the voltage.
The max breaking current should also be tested to see if the cheap fuses explode in flames rather than just blow. A shorted automotive battery can push several thousand amps through a fuse.
Unfortunately, I do not have the means to do that. But for these small value fuses they have a far too high resistance even when working to allow such high currents.
These have been around for a very long time lol I remember when I first came across them in a melted the fuse box.
I prefer glass fuses for home projects
I also often use glas fuses. But for cars and motorcycles, I use these.
A Modern electronic stick welder would make an excellent adjustable current source, or a car battery with halogen head lamps
Good idea!
My spare time is too precious to test each batch of fuses I buy from junk marketplaces. I just buy my fuses from reputable sources.
Good point!
Perhaps ICs like TPS2553D could serve as better overcurrent protection as they also do a lot of other things, handle typical amperage ranges, and you could even just make a little breakout board with a pot to set the range.
If you really know what you are doing or are making a commercial device this is a really good solution, however it's easy to make a mistake in construction. Regular fuses are foolproof.
Good idea for low current devices (
@@mrfrenzy. Im not sure its all that complicated. The datasheet has a full schematic, and its a simple calculation to set the fuse current via resistors.
You can also test it just as easily as fuses and still use it after.
And what happens the day your IC fails and shorts the power line ?
That's why we use fuses. They are passive and can not create shorts.
@@inotoff What happens when it fails? A meteor hits and magic pixies escape from the rocks we stored them in.
That is to say, with what evidence do you so proudly claim fuses to have higher reliability than this ic in countless products without any recalls or failiures noted?
Anecdotes and uncle jimbobs rules of thumb?
You think your smartphone uses big car fuses instead of efficient multi purpose ics? why stay in the past? Dont let a lack of knowledge and discomfort limit capability.
This in theory is what we do for breaker testing. How ever i would really recommend testing your instantaneous (short circuit) trip curve since a short is where you'll have the highest amp draw and if it doesn't open fast enough the current exponentially rises
Also a goo thing. I just wanted to sort the bad ones out.
For a while there was an epidemic of practical jokes involving fuses at work. People became hesitant to turn things on for fear of the flash. Some fuses made very spectacular flashes.
Mine unfortunately not. Not enough energy involved...
@@AndreasSpiess You might be amazed what happens when you put 120V or 240V AC across a normal fuse. Will light up the room.
I was dealing with this very problem this morning! BTW, your wife is just like my wife, but my workshop is even smaller than yours. We live on a boat!
That could be a good excuse to have every device twice ... for "load balancing" :)
Which problem? Wife or fuses ;-)
@@AndreasSpiess Haha! Both, I suppose, but I was referring to each in equal quantities. 😆
Blade fuses use the same colors for the same amperages only from Micro to Midi sizes, for Maxi sizes they reuse some colors for much higher amperages but that's not a problem because a Maxi fuse won't fit on any smaller fuse holder.
*Warning: Many manufacturers use the same color or a very closer one for two or more amperages*
5A "amber" fuses can actually be brown, amber or orange.
7.5A "brown" fuses can actually be brown or dark red.
10A "red" fuses can be any shade of red.
40A "orange" fuses can actually be brown, amber or orange.
Maxi 35A "brown" fuses can actually be brown or dark red.
Maxi 70A "amber" fuses can actually be brown, amber or orange.
Continental/Torpedo fuses *use another color code* that is almost the opposite, colors that are for lower amperages on blade fuses are for higher amperages on continental fuses.
Good info. I did not know that. Thank you!
But I read that some auto fuses are intentionally "slow blow" to account for inrush current from motors such as power windows and wipers so that muddies the water a bit.
Maybe. I just did not find specifications for slow blow car fuses.
@@AndreasSpiess Well it could just be that they size the fuse accordingly in that case so that the inrush is within 2x of the fuse rating. A quick search indicates 15A for a wiper motor which seems sufficient.
Already did such tests on my chinese assortment.
I can produce 8A with my Power Supply and neither the 2A nor the 5A fuses blew.
Thank you for sharing your results!
It's possible your batch that's taking a few seconds are "slow blow" types (while the others are standard or fast-blow) that are designed to tolerate brief overcurrent spikes. These are a perfectly normal/reasonable fuse design depending on the application, but of course you don't know what kind you get when you buy unbranded or badly labeled stuff from Amazon or Aliexpress.
Maybe you are right. However, I did not find specifications for "slow" car fuses, only the ones I showed.
Also check the thickness of the thermals, some are so thin that there is a bad connection and it heats the fuse holder during normal operation!
I measured -0.05mm difference between the Bosch and the Amazon. The ones from AliExpress were the same thickness (0.63mm). I assume this would not cause trouble.
The risk of bad 3AG glass fuses at your local service station has been high for decades (before China sourcing even). Chrome plated Steel end caps with dubious solder cause fuse holder damage and permanent problems.
Chrome is a sure sign of bad stuff.
I always ensured that I kept spare Genuine Australux fuses for that reason. Genuine Australux fuses had tinned brass end caps as is required.
A magnet is useful for sorting fuses of any form factor to not even bother testing. Cheap fakes often contain steel.
An old style battery charger and a cheap Variac is an affordable, safe test rig.
Thank you for the additional info!
I found this with some fuses I purchased from Aliexpress about a year ago, they were all exaclty the same fuse/ the internal wires were all the same thickness ( which is why i did the test in the first place ). I could not actually blow one (safely). To conduct my tests I used a 12v car battery and a 12v dc to 240v ac inverter, with the fuse placed in the 12v circuit. I then placed increasing loads on the inverter whilst monitoring the current with a clamp meter. From memorty a 5a fuse refued to blow at around 30a.
So you definitively bought off the bad ones! Good that you know now.
I've been using a lot of eFuses in my designs recently and while this wasn't among the reasons why I'll add it to the list. :D
They do not suffer from these problems, I assume...
@@AndreasSpiess Being digital you basically have perfect control of their characteristics, they of course have other draw backs such as price and maximum voltage capabilities but they're great when you want a high level of control and something resettable.
Strange, this never occurred to me even though i had never trusted cheap products, Thanks Andreas for the video
Increasing the price (as many resellers do) does not make a product better ;-)
Imagine my surprise that a ham doesn’t have at least one monster Astron supply hanging around! (I - only - have four! Hahaha)
I use old and modded 60A server power supplies for my shack. But I try to create videos for everybody ;-)
Voltage may be important in terms of dynamic processes during blowing
For fuses in general, you are right. To sort out the fakes, probably not. Keep also in mind that these fuses are used at 12 and 24V.
Well, put a well known brand-fuse in series to make sure which will brake first. If the well known brand one goes first, you probably have a bad test-one.
And to add: I always bought fuses like from Bosch or Wuerth sofar ... they maybe a bit more expensive but always better to be sure I guess ?
I also thought about the method you described. But it was a bit pricy for me ;-)
I've just looked up the British Standard (BS1362) for the default "13 amp" fuse found in UK plugs. A compliant fuse must be able to pass 20.8 A indefinitely. At 40 A, the fuse must blow within a time window of 0.5 s to 100 s to be compliant with the standard. The 13 A rating comes from its power dissipation at that current, which must not exceed one watt. Fuse specs are surprising!
I learned that the fuses in your connectors (a UK-speciality!) are more like the ones we have in our distribution boxes. They have to protect the cables where the plug is mounted. Your home wires support a very high amperage. Very different to how we cable our homes.
Spend the few extra bucks and get "name brand" fuses from a known LEGITIMATE retailer.
A few years ago, fuses from Harbor Freight were recalled for not meeting spec.
I agree. But if you have them and used them and did not know about the problem?
Product recall is a subtle feature of a good manufacturer, retailer and regulatory environment. I had some CR2032 batteries recalled by Amazon. These were sold by Amazon and not from Amazon marketplace.
In this case it was due to concerns about the baby safe packaging. That was funny because the low brand batteries don't even bother with that!
11:32 Slightly safer would be to use a lead acid battery in place of an 18650. Most people will have access to one, just be aware that it's (usually) 12ish volts rather than 3.7ish volts.
Also a good idea. Just change the resistor value...
I always test my fuses ! Problem, when I install them, they dont work anymore !! I have to use a thin coper wire instead !!!
Is this what they call „best practice“? ;-)
I mixed all the fuses I have collected over the years so testing some of them won't be very valid . Maybe it is time to visit my auto junkyard and pull fuses from cars there. I would think that most of the fuses used by auto manufacturers should be of good quality - and maybe even a fuse manufacturer name on them.
I agree that the original fuses should comply with the "laws".
The question becomes, what fuses have been replaced over the life of the car and what quality are they? If you really want to spend some effort to save a few bucks, I'd suggest measuring the voltage drop with a known current. I suspect the really bad ones will show a noticeably lower voltage. There are charts for automotive fuses that show a rough current and voltage drop. They were developed to help mechanics find parasitic draws without having to open the circuit to insert an ammeter.
@@russellhltn1396 Yes I was down that rabbit hole of trying to figure out parasitic draw on my VW Jetta. I used a chart for the mv drop on the fuses. I never did 100% find the exact source but think it may be in a controller under the dash somewhere. I gave up and just started disconnecting the battery after I used car ( not too much a big deal since I stay home a lot ) . Finally I recently installed a DC contactor that I can switch on and off from inside the car. Not ideal way to solve problem but easier than other alternative. I guess I would have had to get a good VW rated engine diagnostic tool , or just guess which part it was and get a new one. Or even worse - pay someone to find the problem for me !
@@LarryKapp1 You might want to watch some of the automotive diagnostic channels. I recommend Pine Hallow Diagnostics and South Main Auto. They have videos where they show tracking down parasitic draws. You may find their techniques helpful.
But should we take the risk at all with a part that is really just small fractions of the device it is protecting? Especially considering the fire hazard, shipping time, etc?
This video is for people like me who already purchased and use these fuses. All others can decide which risk they want to take.
the graph tells "average melt"! any additional info in the spec about the scatter? I would want such info from such an expensive piece of "paper". It reminds me how we are made to be scared when there is any temperature anomaly wrt the "norm".
I did not check. But the datasheets are public ( not the norm papers)
i find some blown fuses when try to charge a lifepo4 pack ... and it seemed that precharging something was the reasson.. i still use that specific amps fuse for the cables and hope i forgot the dc converter at low rate of amps.......!!!
LiFepO4 batteries are very strong and easily blow fuses...
I appreciate the information. I plan to test a few when I get a chance.
Good luck!
I discovered last year, testing a DC fuse at voltage can be dramatic. They always protected the device, but the failure mode of the fuse can also be 1) a candle if the plastic ignites, or 2) an arc lamp if the voltage was enough to vaporize the metal and continues the circuit as DC has no zero crossing like AC. This is how I discovered AC rated fuses did not extinguish the arc from the DC solar panels and became a 10,000 watt arc lamp. Test all fuses, because an edge case should not be an unattended house!
Thank you for sharing your experience! These car fuses are only rated for low DC voltages. Fuses for solar panels are very different to extinguish the arc you describe.
High voltage DC is difficult to break, AC is is a lot easier because it crosses 0 regularly, meaning any arcing peters out pretty quickly. High voltage DC fuses tend to be filled with sand to quench any arc that does form, by preventing carbon tracking inside the fuse or along metal splatter from the fuse wire itself. Contactors and relays for DC are also different, the large ones often use air or a vacuum to blow the arc out, or are filled with Sulfur hexaflouride with acts as a good insulator in gas form
Any not-blowing fuse at the rated A-value (+10%) is a fire danger. Blowing is by metal melting temperature as seen in the video as a flash. But not-blowing A-value overpassed means increased temperature and thus a (small) fire possibility.
I agree.
Thank you Andreas for the PSA.
My pleasure!
Thank you, Andreas.
My pleasure!
3:58 . Yeah, I know what you mean. we are in the same loophole of this as she say:( give them away if you do not use them always ) 🤣🤣
:-))
you should be able to see that they're probably halfway ok... if the fusible link is different sizes between the ratings, lower rated, thinner wire. testing one per batch would be a good idea. when i watched rossmann's vid, it looked like they were all the same size.
I also thought that they re-packaged some high ampere fuses and marked them with other ratings...
Andreas excellent video, this was not expected, like you mentioned about TRUST, well global manufacturing does not have any type of regulation, unless the product made in another country perform the test under the regulations provided by the company to meet their requirements. I typically by may electronics these days on Amazon, I went back to test the 1A, 5A, and 10A fuses. I was wondering why my old car was frying some electronics in dash and never thought it as the fuses. When I saw this video I took the fuse that I replaced it was a 1A found that it did not blow at the expected amperage. Therefore, caused me to buy the electronics for the dash board that supports the dash instruments. I had an auto start system put in which allowed me to start my vehicle using a key fob, the tech added this to a circuit tapped from that fuse element, well from your test now we know what and why. I wonder if the glass tube fuse fall under the same demise?
I mainly use glass fuses in my multimeter. So far, they have blown before the instrument was damaged, but I have not tested it.
I checked different of that cheap fuses with my laboratory power supply which can provide regulated current up to 60A. A 10A fuse I checked with 30A was even after one minute not blown. Only the plastic was melting. After checking different fuses all with the same result I throw all in the dust bin. Please buy only fuses from a brand like Littlefuse, Bosch, Hella etc.
Thank you from sharing your test results. So you definitively had from the "bad batches"
Fuses - the most misunderstood components in Swiss mountain valleys…. 🤷🏻♂️
:-))
Better method. Same resistance, same battery, but put a good 7.5a (or 10a) fuse in series. If the known good fuse blows, then the batch is bad. This way you eliminate the runaway.
An expensive way with disputable results. If you place 2 good fuses in series, it is random which one blows first ;-)
@@AndreasSpiess Hi Andreas, but as you said, if one 5A fuse in the box trips correctly, the box is good. If the test is set for 8A, and the 7.5A trips before the 5A, you know the 5A is bad. So sacrificing 1 Fuse for the reputation of the box… is that expensive?
Yes, you would need to calibrate the test with the resistance of the 7.5A fuse and the resistance values.
Great video as always Andreas! Some dubious QA going on at these Chinese suppliers. It’s a race to the bottom, who can make the fuses for the lowest cost.
It seems so. And it is dangerous if you do not know.
@@AndreasSpiess - What worries me is that the whole supply chain has been corrupted. These bad products mean that trust in all the products drops. I’d maybe say “OK, well just choose the Bosch branded ones” but there are instances of fake branded fuses in the supply chain too. Your suggestion of testing just one 5A fuse upon receipt of the pack and rejecting if not performing to spec is a good one. Luckily I have all the kit to do the testing without needing to short out a Li battery…although having shorted the mains a few times, maybe shorting the battery is safer! (I’ve also been in the room when a pack of Lithium cells blew up and still remember the smell 20yrs on!)
While I get the idea of this video, I disagree on the topic of buying such important parts from no name manufacturers.Fuses are kind of life saving devices. They protect our houses, equipment and even ourselves from damage. Nobody would buy lifesavers from dodgy sources. Why do we different for fuses? Don't go cheap on security. The reputable brands are only a single click away from the dodgy ones.
I agree. I made this video for the guys like me who did not think too much when we ordered an assortment. I would see it as a "call for action": Either test yours or throw them away without testing...
I say dont buy fuses at all (for most projects)
Use ICs like TPS2553D instead.
@@BeefIngot For your personal projects, sure you can modify your design to accommodate a current limit IC. But in most cases, a simple and robust fuse from reliable suppliers can fulfill this role just fine. Furthermore, you can also get counterfeit ICs from shady sources, just like how you can get counterfeit fuses.
@@r_firefly4292 I don't see why this would be limited to personal projects when power management IC like this are literally created for mass adoption in commercial products. This is the most professional solution and certainly better than bodging in a fuse which wont also do things like reverse current flow prevention and over voltage protection.
Furthermore, there isnt any reason you cant order from LCSC, Mouser, Digikey etc. These chips arent exactly expensive. Compared to a pack of fuses, a reusable, tunable IC seems the expedient option to me.
I mean, consider this: The IC I mentioned, is quite literally the same price per unit as an assortment kit of Bosch blade fuses on Amazon, sure a little bit more if mounted onto a breakout board, but nothing crazy.
Actually, if you buy the same number of these IC bulk discounting gets you down to 2/3rds the cost of a fuse. To me thats crazy. A more efficient solution for less money, from a reliable manufacturer.
@@r_firefly4292 For personal projects? I dont get the distinction. The IC I mentioned is made by a reliable manufacturer, sold from valid distributors like LCSC, Digikey, Mouser, and is cheaper per unit than buying a bulk pack of bosch fuses from Amazon.
Cheaper, more precisely set, and with a bunch of other features like overvoltage protection, reverse current protection and more makes this a great option in my mind. Adding a breakout board you still might come out ahead on price per unit and if you are putting this onto a pcb, it completely destroys fuses on cost.
In a chinese car I had a rear heated window that sometimes didn't work.
I took a look at the OEM fuse and the plastic was half melted and it was so warped the contacts didn't connect correctly.
The wire was still okay
So you were lucky! Molten cables would have been a pain in the a...
@@AndreasSpiess oh so true. Currently I have a different problems. AC/DC converter broken and no spare parts
so what you have shown is that the fuses take a tad longer to blow at 2x rating
this is actually not bad in most cases, if they blow above teh rating but not survive much above 25-50% overload they are basically ok
a fuse is intended for gross overloads, it is a 1-shot device designed to prevent fires from superheated conductors and such, not to limit current accurately
in fact I have BOTH 120A ANL fuses AND 100A breakers on my standby battery setup, the intended load is a total of 165A(4kw) with a set of batteries in a 2s2p setup
my average load is nowhere near 4kw, often it is barely 500w
and each stack is separately fused so as long as quality and degradation are evenly matched they should never blow, and can be isolated individually for replacement via a connector rathed to 175A
my design spec of this setup is slightly overkill, in fact at 500w I could easily use just 10awg wire, yet I have 2awg lugs, but the intent is that the fuses and breakers don't blow, until something really bad is already happening(as the inverter has overload surge capacity and internal shutdowns when overloaded too long)
but I wanted a system that was robust and safe, no risk of shorts leading to fires
and having 4kw of surge is enough that if a major storm happens I can just buy/borrow a small generator and be able to surge power a microwave or toaster oven with the grid down, something I plan on getting someday is a small 1kw 1lb propane bottle generator, just enough to cover my average load(without hot water or HVAC) and so it is portable and runs on fuel with a LONG shelf life
but this is about fuses, devices that should not blow ever at or below the rating, and should be able to blow only when the rating is exceeded for a period of time to literally melt a metal alloy, which the timing doesn't matter as long as it is under 5-10 seconds for up to 2x overload, the smaller the time the better, but slow-blow fuses are fairly common so I doubt 3 seconds is actually all that bad at a 2x overload
3 seconds is enough to heat wires, but not really enough to heat them so much at only 2x load that they would catch fire
and if your project is loading a lithium cell up to it's max current it is designed badly, lithium cells age by getting weaker in capacity AND current output limits, if your design uses a 100% max load you are asking for premature failures do to voltage sag or battery fire, best practice is to design 2-3x overload, this is common in pneumatics and hydraulics, and should be also part of electronics
it may not always be possible to handle a 2-3x overdesign, in those cases you need to spec "fast blow" fuses, designed at such a delicate balance that even a slight overload can cause them to fail, but it is poor design to need such things as they can blow when the load is normal just from age or a hot environment
I agree that "slow" fuses exist for some purposes. However, I did not find a specification for that type for the tested car fuses.
@@AndreasSpiess true, but think about it this way
if you are ACTUALLY using these fuses for automotive, you are likely either a repair shop or a homeowner who already is using a real kit from a local auto parts store, you often would not go to ali express/amazon and sort by "lowest price" if you were fixing your car with a blown fuse, because that car would need to work same-day or similar and so you would buy locally
the rest of the cases where an "automotive type" fuse is used it is non-critical and often a slow-blow is fine
so just test each pack you get, there is almost always a 5a fuse in multi packs and it should not be too hard to get a 10a supply, then all you need is a resistor to limit current to ~2x and use an arduino with an interrupted counter loop to detect the blow time within an acceptable margin of error(resolution is down to a few uS if your loop code is properly optimized and you use REAL interrupts)
if it blows in
I had a 15A fuse that got so hot that the plastic melted to a blob around the base. The fuse DID BIT BLOW.
This fuse was from the Swedish automotive chain store Biltema..
Getting the fuse locally does not guarantee quality....
Thank you from sharing your experience. Indeed, that is a bad story!
This video is sponsored by Big Fuse, telling you to test all your fuses so you have to buy more!! hahah
Exactly! :-))
i also used to think bosch meant quality, but had a bad experience with their wipers on my vw caddy
Bad luck, I think.
I tested all the fuses I had now I'm out of fuses.
thanks Andreas !
:-))
When im Honest, i always was under the impression thst those fuses can't be fucked up while making them because they're just stamped parts that have a known/ calculated size. Expected the accuracy to be higher than on other cheao products.
I started to use ABB S200 Breakers for projects where the size is not important a while ago due to the convenience when there is already a DIN rail. But all my small projects use 5x20mm fuses from random sources. Wonder if they have similar quality issues.
Since the Fuses Blow from "overheating" of the small section, i wonder how much the results are affected by the temperature of the room they're in.
They look nice! As you write: If you have enough space, a good solution.
The car fuses also have a temperature curve and you are right, they blow at different currents at higher temperatures.
@@AndreasSpiess took me a eternity to find Din Rail mountable Breakers that are approved for 12/24V DC. I like Din Rails because of the modularity. Also looks more professional and you usually don't have conductive parts that are exposed. Upgrades and Maintenance are neat with those. Since they can turn off 6000A (or more), I'd expect them to last a long time. (Which is a reason why I bought some used from renovation projects)
@@bastiannenke9613 I use such a DIN rail for my solar plant at our remote radio station. But there, we have to handle higher currents (the highest is the coffee machine at 60A/24V)
@@AndreasSpiess I'd probably use a lower power coffeemaker at 24V.
True, din rail stuff is great for high currents. Depending on how remote that station is, it's also great that a lot of the Breaker manufacturers have remote control options. Or as a really expensive bistable Relais ;)
@@bastiannenke9613 The coffeemaker is standard 220V ( on an inverter). It consumes around 1.3kW...
I do the monitoring of the entire battery with an ESP8266 and MQTT.
Lol at getting a harbor freight ad with this.
:-))
Did you consider using a large supercapacitor as an energy source rather than a lithium battery? If you used a 3V 350F 3 mohm capacitor, the voltage droop calculated from I = C dv/dt should be reasonably small, but the lower energy density of the capacitor is less likely to start a fire...
Unfortunately, I do not have such a super cap handy (as most of my viewers). Also pay attention: Super caps have an exponential voltage curve that results in a variable current. Maybe not what you want for this test (unless you use a really big cap).
Thank you so mu h for the test really answers my questions!
Glad the video was helpful!