Stellate Ganglion Block for Anxiety | DailyDocTalk 113
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 09. 2020
- Naturopathic Physician, Dr. Drew Timmermans, discusses the use of a stellate ganglion block (SGB) for a patient’s anxiety. The SGB involves an injection that helps relieve a patient’s over-active sympathetic (“fight or flight”) nervous system. This therapy needs to be paired with some form of counseling so that the patient can go into, and address, the traumatic experiences. So often patients with chronic pain have lingering traumatic stress that impedes their ability to get to a new place of healing… working through traumatic experiences is critical to finding complete health and wellness, and patients don’t have to try to do it alone. There are tools and people willing to help.
Peace,
-Regenerative Performance
Thank you so much for watching. My hope is to create a community where you feel like I provide value to your life. If you feel this is the case, please take a second to introduce yourself, add a comment, or share this video with your closest circle.
// Subscribe to my channel here: czcams.com/users/dmackayt...
// Sign up to purchase physician-grade neutraceutical supplements here: us.fullscript.com/welcome/rp.
// Sign up for my weekly, non-lame (totally subjective) newsletter here: eepurl.com/geGKyf.
Follow me on:
// Instagram: / regenerativeperformance
// Facebook: / regenerativeperformance
// Snapchat: snapchat/add/regenperform
// LinkedIn: linkedIn/in/dmackayt
// Website: regenerativeperformance.com
// Podcast: coming soon
Bio:
Dr. Timmermans is a licensed naturopathic doctor in Gilbert Arizona with a passion for helping his patients overcome chronic pain to reclaim their life. This passion is what drives him to think outside the box when helping patients who are looking to reduce/resolve pain. and avoid surgery if possible. With a clinical focus in regenerative injection therapies such as prolotherapy, PRP, and autologous cellular therapy, he takes a holistic approach to healing from chronic pain.
This was my daughter’s miracle after 10 years of EMDR.
I'm so happy to hear that!
Jesus, 10yrs. Sorry to hear. I’ve done emdr as well. No noticeable results
I seem to have many triggers and need help as my life is decades behind where I could be
How long ago?
It’s just been 3 months
My ptsd and anxiety is crippling, I’ve had this issue for years & I feel like I’m going to die sometimes. I really am considering this treatment because I do not want to be hooked on anxiety medication all my life. It really is hard because everything is triggering. God willing this will help me
I'm terribly sorry to hear that. We have found really great success with the stellate ganglion block for PTSD
This is exactly how I feel. I’m also terrified to get the SGB bc I’m afraid it will make me feel like on drugs or something. But I’m so desperate to get my life back. I’m so completely isolated in this crippling anxiety!
The calm that comes after the stellate is so peaceful. It doesn't make people feel like they are on drugs
did it help?
@miia Arango how are you feeling?
Getting a Stellate ganglion block before a psilocybin assisted therapy could be huge for the treatment of ptsd! Wow this could be an amazing tool for therapists in general but I think it could possibly help revolutionize psychedelic assisted therapy.
I'm not 100% sure whether combining those two would be beneficial or safe. Medicine isn't always additive or subtractive. Sometimes an SSRI can treat depression, Adderall can tread ADHD, but combining them can just make a patient sick.
@@gabeisawesome879 Concur, not only is it not prudent to combine substances, but you wouldn't even know which is the best/worst treatment.
Guys, this is your BRAIN/MIND, no matter how "broken."
Resist the temptation to potentially subject yourself to experimentation.
I too am interested in both, but I deduced that hyperarousal/triggers are primary, stimulating the pineal gland for higher consciousness and gratitude is 2ndary.
As he stated, SBG -- VHR -- EMDR --- CBT -- Nutrition -- Meditation/Mindfulness -- Self- compassion/pacing -- patience -- keep moving forward
I just did it. Oooooooomygoodness. Oooooooomygoodness. Suffered from trauma for 30 years. Wow
I'm assuming this means a great response?!
Hello doctor,
Are you still providing these blocks for patients with PTSD? I’m looking at another center in Scottsdale to get this procedure done but after watching your videos I feel more comfortable with your explanation and attention to detail. I’m also in weekly therapy and understand I will need to continue to help myself after this block. My cortisol levels are incredibly elevated. I had a brain scan at Amen clinics and it shows my hypothalamus “lit up like a Christmas tree” is what the doctor said and to take fish oil. Trying my best. Would appreciate your guidance if possible.
Hey there, yes we are still performing this procedure on a regular basis. Give our clinic a call during the week, I'd love to help!
Great video! I’d like to ask. How well would a Stellate Ganglion Block work for panic disorder that isn’t triggered by posttraumatic stress disorder? I’ve been on numerous treatments for panic disorder and disassociation (depersonalization disorder) for years and Couldn’t find any relief throughout countless trials of medication and therapy. I’d love to hear what you have to say. Thanks!
We have had success in patients with non-traumatic anxiety/panic disorders, but just like with PTSD, the SGB just takes the foot off the gas for a few months, its not long term curative. But could still be a great tool
Could you please explain what is being blocked, from my understanding nerve communication is being blocked, which can create an increase in pressure for those with high energy, this is a forced sleep,
I just had both sides done. My right and my left just today. I don’t feel a difference. Maybe it’s for some people, but after 25 years of this I had to try something
I'm so happy to hear you tried it! I truly hope it helps!
Have you tried this procedure on any patients with ME/CFS or POTs? Seems like it may be helpful in autonomic dysfunction
I would love to work more with that patient population with this procedure, but they haven't come through my door yet
Hello Doctor, how long does it take for the effects to take place? And does the relief get better over time?
Most people notice the improvement within the first week, but sometimes it takes two injections within the first few weeks to reduce the anxiety significantly enough to be noticeable. The relief gets better over time but only when people use the SGB as a means to do the deeper work required. If you just get the injections and don't do any psychotherapy or anything it will wear off over time
Im having my first one today. Prior military childhood and drug induced trauma.
I'm so excited for your healing ❤
How did it go?
How are you now?
Hi there. I have MS and I believe my vagus nerve has been damaged in one of my attacks. Have been in a constant state of anxiety w/ chest pains for the past two months along with GI issues, random chills, ect. Symptoms appeared together like clockwork which is why I assume this to be autonomic/vagus nerve. Do you think this could be beneficial for me? Have you treated patients with MS with the SGB?
We haven't had any patients with MS for the SGB, so I cant comment on that aspect specifically. In some cases we will pair a vagus nerve hydrodissection with the SGB
My doctor did and pass the needle by the thyroid to get to sg is it ok ?
Question: I have GAD and panic disorder and I've had quite a bit of therapy but not had a specific trauma I can pin point or "thing" to work on. How would the SGB work for me?
Do you know of any negative outcomes with SGB? I am ready to do this procedure but only thing I'm concerned about is 3 Reddit posts that stated they felt worse afterward. I wouldn't care if I spent $1000 and it didn't work, just worried about possible worsening of symptoms afterward.
We personally haven't had any patients who are worse afterwards, but we have heard of that happening. It's so infrequent that I don't even think there are statistics from research studies on that, so I'm estimating the risk of that is
I'm suffering from post traumatic stress disorder, I used a lot of medication like ssri, snri, antisycophtic, but they not helped me
I'm terribly sorry to hear that
Does it work for social anxiety disorder?
Hey doctor, I'm struggling with ptsd and racing thoughts with panic. I'm disabled. How much is this procedure?
I'm terribly sorry to hear that. Prices vary across the country, with most places being between $1,000‐2500 per procedure.
Are your injections guided more precisely by ultrasound?
Yes, ultrasound is the preferred approach for the SGB
Hello, I have severe insomnia that I can't say is related to anxiety. I think there's an imbalance of my sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. I want to try SGB. However, I have low blood pressure (not dangerously low) and I understand only people with high blood pressure have overactive SNS. Do you think I could still benefit from SGB?
You have have dysautonomia and an imbalance in your nervous system with low blood pressure, so having low blood pressure wouldn't mean you're not a good candidate. We use screening questionnaires such as the PCL5 and ASQ to determine if someone may benefit from the SGB
@@DrewTimmermansND Thank you. A couple things - I don't understand about how the Ages and Stages Questionnaire relates to PTSD or SNS dysfunction. And I don't have typical PTSD. But I do live with extreme regret and self criticism recrimination Iof past mistakes) on a near constant basis. I wonder if this is a type of PTSD. However at night I don't think about these issues. I push the thoughts away.
ASQ is the Anxiety Symptom Questionnaire.
We dont diagnose PTSD, we just help in the treatment of it, so I cant comment on the type you may have
I'm 23 and started having panic attacks last year, its been pretty bad, and I just seem to freak out for no reason sometimes. Do you think this could help me?
I'm terribly sorry to hear this. Search for the PCL-C quiz online. If you score above 35, there's a good chance that this could temporarily help you. But these injections wear off, so only get them if you're willing to do the counseling/therapy to address the deeper root causes.
@@DrewTimmermansNDcan you continue to get them after they wear off?
Have you done the block for long covid? There are some Doctors in Texas doing SGB to help patients recover taste and smell loss from the virus.
Yep we sure have, with really really interesting results. Return of loss of smell/taste, improvement in brain fog/fatigue, etc.
I’ve read a few people that had success resolving their Long Covid with this procedure. Can you provide any insight?
The SGB helps reset the neuroimmune system. We've successfully used it for long cvd as well as many other chronic immune issues
Would it be a good treatment for someone with an Generalized anxiety disorder?
It can be yes
Tim how does this work? Because what you are doing here is limiting blood flow, myself and a handful of other people who have revived this injection are complaining about a limitation and nasty pressure behind the eyes, especially when we take something that can produce adrenaline like áderall. Can you explain how it works? Is there somewhere one goes when someone has negative side effects?
I see your comment. I hope they’ll respond. Your concerns shouldn’t be dismissed.
The SGB works by temporarily reducing the outflow along the ganglion, which can hp break the vicious cycle from the brain to the adrenal glands, and can reduce the fight of flight response.
I'm sorry to hear that you've have that occur after your procedure.
How is the outflow of blood slowed? Because it seems like the ganglia has been tightened, stretched, made to limit outflow, and this is very painful for high energy people and a debilitating limitation. And how do we know it’s temporary? If you can just explain how the outflow of blood is slowed through the ganglia?
Blood doesn't flow through the ganglia. The ganglia is a collection of nerve tissue, not blood vessels. The ganglia is not being tightened or stretched, it is simply being numbed by an anesthetic.
Someone just replied to this thread and their comment was deleted, they also were having issues with the procedure and were reporting the same symptoms, they asked a very interesting question, pleas repost:
I just had an SGB for severe tinnitus. Can you advise how long it takes for this to wear off? I’m in both TRT (Tinnitus Retraining Therapy) and CBT but was stuck in severe fight or flight response until today with agoraphobia. I notice I have lingering brain fog after the procedure that’s worrying me so would love to know this isn’t permanent.
how are you going now?
@@Jack-ns9sz fucking horrible gave me a TBI
I am suffering every second of the fucking day
I am terribly sorry to hear that
Hi, sorry to hear your experience. I'm considering getting this procedure and wonder how your doing now, since its been a year. Thanks
can sgb injection reduce fight or flight response.please tell me
Yes, that's one of the main reasons it's helpful
I have been trying to get this for years in the US. The country that that gives you PTSD won’t give you healthcare. I had to move to Canada to get healthcare. I just had my first Stella injection today. (For free) . I’m wondering how you know if it worked? My eye dropped and all that, but I don’t feel like my ptsd disappeared. Anyone had this done?
Health care is not "free" in Canada, we pay very high taxes to pay for our tenth rate health care.
We use the PCL to track outcomes. If score drops by 10 points of more, then it is considered a successful treatment.
You eye dropped????
How did you get it for free?
They are in Canada with socialized healthcare (I grew up there). So it's not free, just no co pays or deductibles or shenanigans by insurance companies).
If I am understanding you right. After a year of this treatment. If a person is at a 7-8 out of 10 for anxiety. It would then be a 4-5 out of 10. Is that correct?
Truthfully from my perspective. And if I am understanding you right. That doesn’t sound very groundbreaking / life changing.
But I guess it’s always different from person to person. And, you never know unless you try it for yourself.
Thanks for the video
Correct, as I stated in the video, this treatment on its own does not produce profound effects in the long term (in the short term patients can go from 7-8/10 down to 2-3/10, but this doesn't last long term if they aren't in therapy). This treatment allows people to better address their past traumas in therapy, which is where the real healing happens.
What's groundbreaking about this procedure, is there currently is NO other technique in medicine that produces this effect (blockade/reduction of the autonomic nervous system freaking out with triggers), with the exception of a few different protocols utilizing benzo medications which carries a lot of risks and has side effects.
@@DrewTimmermansND : Appreciate the detailed response Drew. Thank you 👍. I’ve shared the video with a professional who wasn’t aware of the procedure. When I speak with them next I’ll see if its something they recommend for me to try.
Again thanks for the video etc!
My pleasure!
will this help symptoms of bipolar disorder? Thanks in advance
I don't believe it has been studied for that
How safe is this? Will this give u future Dementia? Does ur symptoms get worse after it expires? Do people feel like zombies afterwards? Just curious
There are risks associated with the procedure itself, which is why we believe it's important to ensure the procedure is ultrasound guided. No, it does cause future dementia. Symptoms generally don't worsen when it wears off. People feel at peace after, not zombie like.
@@DrewTimmermansND good to know. Does your energy decline since no fight or flight mode?
Spastic energy may reduce, but not your normal health energy. You still have a fight or flight response, it's just not over exaggerated.
@@DrewTimmermansND What are the risks?
Risks can include bleeding, infection, anesthetic toxicity, nerve damage
Stellate ganglion block bro how can i get this medicine. If im africa
By finding a doctor in Africa who can do this, or by traveling somewhere that you can get it
Does Stella ganglion block work for other pain relief areas like the lower back?
Generally not no, unless there is underlying dysautonomia that is resulting in widespread hypersensitivity.
We use different approaches for chronic low back pain
Hello sir, is this treatment gives permanent effects
Really only possible in people who use the time to work on their deeper core issues with a licensed professional
@@DrewTimmermansND is there any psycosurgery for severe anxiety?
What nerves are injected?
The stellate ganglion and the cervical sympathetic ganglion
I’m from the UK and I suffer from PTSD where the fight or flight response is on 24/7 in December & February last I had the SGB by doctor Krishna in Bristol UK two times. Right side neck C6 and C7 then 24 hours later left side neck C3 and C4 but it didn’t work. What am I asking you is do you do the same nerves, but in a different order and if so is it worth me continuing with SGB,s. I look forward to your reply.Thanks
Hi Can this block be pernament ? I have PTSD in my own flat becouse of bully neighbours.... Please help
It's not permanent no, it's only temporary. The block is used to help people better address their PTSD in therapy
@@DrewTimmermansND hi dr. I had this procedure done and I actually had a paradoxical response. I completely depersonalized and my anxiety went to extreme panic. Not anyone can explain this. Have you EVER heard of such a thing? I have no interoception which is a major issue because I have health issues I can’t treat due to the inability to feel. I know the insula is involved in feeling and I’m just trying to wrap my head around how this could have happened. My limbic system is very upset and I feel like this gave me PTSD. I’m completely traumatized. I went to a leading Dr. also and had an injection at the c6 and c4 on the same day. That was almost 3 months ago and I’ve seen little improvement.
I'm terribly sorry to hear that. I havent ever seen that clinical response, nor have I read anything in the literature about it. Doesn't mean it isn't real, I just don't know why! Thinking out loud, there's a lot about the brain and emotions that we still don't understand, so it's always possible that the block removed a 'protection' layer within your sub- or unconscious mind, resulting in unconscious repressed emotions surfacing. I'm gleaning some of this from the work of John Sarno, but this is not the same situation that he talks about with chronic pain. But it might be worth looking into his books on his theories and approaches, and seeing if that resonates with you.
@@DrewTimmermansND thank you for you reply. I found a doctor who essentially no longer does the procedure for people with any sort of dissociation. I had minor depersonalization from a wicked awful benzo withdrawal. I’m familiar with the work of John Sarno, and TMS. I don’t think his work would fit in here unfortunately. It is however, refreshing for a doctor to mention him.
I think it’s really imperative that when working with anyone that doesn’t have cut and dry ptsd, to be really careful. I have now spoken to multiple people where the block has gone wrong for them and their lives and nervous systems are destroyed. There is too much at stake to mess with the brain. Can you tell me how long on average you are seeing people get results. I’m hoping this will eventually smooth out. It’s debilitating.
Thanks for that insight.
Our patients report about 3ish month improvement
Can it cure Parosmia
There are studies coming out demonstrating significant improvement and even resolution of parosmia (small case studies). We have also been seeing this in our patients in the clinic as well
What is actually injected?
Ropivacaine, a local anesthetic
Could cortisone make the block more effective?
Nope
Can I get this in California?
yes, google.com will be your friend here!
@@DrewTimmermansND I have a consultation this Monday!! 😃
This has been a absolutely horrible procedure it has ruined my life and comments keep getting deleted , anytime I see a negative comment it gets removed. They are over-stretching the nerve and I am in allot of pain.
No one has been deleting your comments on my channel as I manage the channel personally. I'm sorry to hear that you did not have a good outcome with your procedure. Did they use ultrasound? I'm not sure how they could overstretch the nerve, as stretching of the nerve is not something that happens with this procedure.
@@DrewTimmermansND I would also point out how vital it is to choose a Dr. that is trained in the procedure and has done numerous successful procedures. There will always be exceptions where things can take a wrong turn but having someone experienced tends to lessen the odds.
@juan raspa what happened to you? It ruined my life also and no one can help me.
@@arieldeangelo8439 What happened to you from it?
@@arieldeangelo8439 can you explain ? I was thinking of doing this treatment. You feedback can help me
2 days ago
Hello, I have had horrible complications from this procedure, the outflow of what is being blocked?
So did I.
I'm sorry to hear that. Please make sure you discuss your complication with your doctor.
I'm sorry to hear that. Please make sure you discuss your complication with your doctor.
Well tell us what happened
What did it do?
Wait a minute - are YOU a naturopath performing the stellate ganglion block or is a board-certified physician (MD/DO) who has completed an accredited pain fellowship doing the block?
Hey bro, doctor, what is this shit procedure? Do u know how it works?
They are deleting negative comments
They are deleting negative comments
No one on my account is deleting any negative comments. Why would you make up that lie?
They are deleting negative comments