Danley Sound Labs SH50 || Can you hear me now?
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
- Review/Data: www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loud...
SH50 Product Page: danleysoundlabs.com/products/loud-speakers/synergy-horn/sh50/
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All of my tests are conducted using KLIPPEL Hardware and Software. KLIPPEL is an innovative leader in providing unique test equipment for electro-acoustical transducers and audio systems. Founded in 1997 by Dr. Wolfgang Klippel, the novel techniques developed for control and measurement systems of loudspeakers and other transducers are the result of over 30 years of fundamental research. This provides more accurate physical models of loudspeakers, micro-speakers and headphones valid for both small and large amplitudes. The focus is on revealing the root causes of signal distortion and defects and giving practical indications for improvements in design and manufacturing of audio products. For information on KLIPPEL products, please visit their site below:
www.klippel.de/company/about-u... - Věda a technologie
Shout out to Danley. Thanks for being transparent and sharing. Erin, appreciate the hard work.
Thx for the review. It's fun to do something different every once in a while.
Wonderful and informative video. Thank you Mr. Erin
I owed 5 of these at one point...the only reason why I sold them was because they were the install version and difficult to move. I have their sm80 variant, which I can deploy one per side for a decent sized outdoor event ( say 700-1K) people... 80 deg conical dispersion 12” and horn... killer
Awesome Erin. Couldn't wait to hear your thoughts with this one- really useful information. Thank you for all your hard work to get measurements for this one- it didn't look to be an easy task.
I too measure the lengths and width before buying the next VW
Good work, Erin 💪🏻💪🏻. Thank you for the information , much appreciated
I have a pair of these in my studio and they are a riot. Danley folks are fun and they even painted the insides JBL Blue for me 🤪
Is your studio a football field 😂
@@crisfiler6128 it's big but I like the lunacy of it all when I say these are good for a few thousand people! 😂
Love what's I'm seeing I'm going to pick up 2 for my very large basement....
I was thrilled by this, because I was imagining a speaker like this for the past month. I was contemplating making a custom surround speaker to go with JBL Studio 590 / 570 front soundstage. Something that would up into the rear corners of the room like an OG Imax theater. What if I take a Tenex Compression driver from JBL Eon (Same one as Studio 530 but made in Mexico) and put it into a big horn, then build a bass driver into one of the sections of the horn? Wow a crazy three way PA speaker exists like that. There needs to be more speakers like this. Where astatically it's just a horn. It looks amazing. A little bookshelf speaker built like that would be neat.
Awesome! The synergy horn is a very interesting concept. I've always wondered if the PA nature of the speaker would make compromises to sound quality necessary, especially for a constant directivity speaker, but the polar plot and frequency response look very well behaved given these criteria. If you have the equipment I would be very interested in a binaural sound recording with the mics moving in front of the speaker to get an idea of the sound stage appearing to be centered behind the speaker, that you have described.
When evaluating the directivity angle I usually look at at which angle I'd have to place a second speaker to get a reasonably flat response between the center axes. Assuming flat summation at -6dB each that looks to be on average at 50° making it a +-25° speaker, falling right in the middle of your estimates.
Well, the name of the speaker is derived from its radiation pattern. So putting it between +-20 to 30 degrees falls right inline with its 50 (+-25)degrees radiation pattern.
For home usage, I guess the much smaller sh75 or sh95 makes sense. It would be really interesting to see how those perform.
Edit: Forgot about the SM60(f/m), I guess those make the most sense in a home environment.
As stated previously, been in pro audio, it is interesting that they would want to do near field measurements. Pro speakers typically "sum" farther out since they are designed to project far distances. That said, even though it is passive, I would use an open architecture DSP to time align the drivers for better clarity. Being that the speaker has a symmetric driver arrangement, it would respond well to time alignment. And yes, all pro speakers are expected to use some eq.
Bravo!
I’m in North GA. If I ever come across speakers worth testing I’m not too far away!
👍
I visited Danley in about 2010. At the time, he was offering the DTS10 subwoofer as a kit for home theater use. I have been using a pair of those since. I can't remember names now, but one of the employees invited me to his personal home theater. His was a small room, roughly 14x16. It was clearly dialed in by a pro and sounded fantastic. I admit to not having much technical knowledge. However, in comparison to what I was currently and still using (Klipschorns) I didn't hear enough benefit to justify the price difference. Switching to Synergy would have doubled my investment. That said, I spent $2k on the Danley subs and am quite sure I couldn't find this performance for similar money any other way. Very cool stuff they are making. @erin, not sure where you're located, but we may be close to each other. You have an open invite to visit my theater if you'd like to hear Danley subs in a home. Regards, Tony
I'm lazier than you Erin which is why I watch all your reviews here and read your website later while waiting for appointments etc lol.
Before returning it you should have stuck it in the back of your ute (pickup), parked in your street and brought out your neighbours 10 houses away for a critical listening demo...
I did roll it out for our 4th of July block party. 😀
Can't wait to view this, if I can be so cheeky to ask any ETA on the Kii 3 review?
Current ETA for the speaker is late September. That’s all I know at the moment.
High end PA speakers are narrowing the gap between high end home speakers and commercial speakers. I’ve owned the M2 and loved them very much. I’ve also owned the RCF TTL6a and L’acoustic Syva and wow they sounded amazing. The gap is narrowing. The RCF looks like a typical PA with a metal grill and large that doesn’t have WAF. However, the Syva has a slender design that has the option of wall mounting which is nice and they have color options like white or beige to match your walls. The TTL6a sounded bigger and fuller but the Syva sounded more flat and has tighter bass that extended lower. They both sounded great that I sold my M2’s. I’m still exploring more PAs since I haven’t heard them all. We have a large space and we like to have parties and do karaoke time to time. Instead having multiple systems for movie, music and karaoke; it saves us money and space (less clutter) if we went with PA speakers. Oh btw, L’acoustic uses cloth speaker grills which looks better for home.
What a range of nice speakers you've had. I'm stunned you sold the M2s- I've not heard them but everyone seems to rave on about them. I've heard the 4367- I thought they were awesome. I do understand your desire to have one system for all options- but curious...was it a night and day drop off for music between the M2s and the TTL6a or Syva?
@@mikewaters6980 not at all. All three sounds great with music and movies. However, the larger TTL6 sounds more in your face and larger sounding. It can dominate your room if you don’t have any acoustic treatments. The M2 does have better center imaging though I would say and a larger center imaging sweet spot. That would be my only real complaint. However, if your like me and you like to listen to music while your doing stuff around the house then that won’t be a concern. When it comes to moves; all three performed excellent. Again the TTL6 had some crazy effects being it’s so in your face. You can hear loads of detail right in your ear. Hope that makes sense.
@@DonLee480 Thanks for your time in giving me a super detailed insight Don- that's really interesting to hear. I've heard some of the cheaper RCL speakers in the past and was quite surprised how 'decent' they sounded for a PA speaker. You have definitely peaked my interest in looking for other solutions outside the 'angelic' M2!
Love that you measure these more unusual designs! When you do your ground plane measurements, how much room do you need around the speaker and the mic? How far away do you stand with your computer so you don't get reflections in the measurement?
It really depends on a) how much frequency resolution you want and b) at what frequency
I'd say for good resolution down to 20Hz, you would want at least 100ms of reflection free windowing. Which is about 100 feet round trip (give or take). But the further you are, the better.
For higher frequencies, I still recommend using a quasi-anechoic measurement... usually above the 500Hz region is where the ground plane measurements really need exact aiming of the HF device to the tweeter and that means tilting the speaker. It's pretty complex but if you're looking for some quick LF checks, then you're fine with what I mentioned above.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks for answering!
These are great questions!
Wow, 😲 that's quite a large speaker.
Indeed.
I'm actually amazed at how this compares to the JBL M2. I expected this to have even lower deviation in the dynamic range test compared to the M2. Only if I had the $$$ and room for that M2.
Well, remember, it's only spec'd to go down to about 50 or 60Hz; it is intended to be used with a subwoofer. With that in mind, I'm not really surprised here.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I know that, but even the wiggles in the 230ish Hz and 500Hz range the M2 still looks better.
Nice Job Erin. Thanks man for going over this speaker. I believe the 12 inch woofers are behind the holes on the sides(in your video picture) and closest to the end of the throat. Tweeter-Mid-Woofer
Thanks.
Erin was right in his video. The 12" woofers are above and below - not on the sides. Source: I own SH50's
Cool cool. I stand corrected. Good to know. I missed the holes on the top and bottom in the video
@@dustinkalthoff7430
Curious, what's your application for the SH50?
PA, Hifi, HT?
Do you think you can get Tom Danley to let you measure the HRE1 and ILE3? They bring them around on the Danley Road Show around the US as well
so can I infer that long term compression is more important than frequency response, since the latter can be knocked down with an equalizer? If you’re going to test the kef ls50 wireless, would you check please if the tweeter has a protection capacitor?
I'd have to take the thing apart to know for sure. I don't want to do that with someone else's product as this one is a bit more tricky to deconstruct.
Long-term listening can lead to compression or enhancement which causes the FR to change. I value knowing the effect for that reason.
When testing driver parameters with the Klippel do the TS parameters change at high levels alot?
Was watching a podcast where they said with modern subs TS parameters don't matter for enclosure design because those parameters change so much with large signals.
They certainly can. Poorer speakers can vary a lot. Better speakers have better linearity and maintain their specs well as they are driven closer to xmax. There's a lot of range here.
Short answer: yes. As an example, a 12” subwoofer driver that Danley use a variant of today in their CS30 cabinet goes from 4.34 Ohm nominal DC resistance at ‘cold & small’ to 5.67 Ohm at ‘warm & large’ - just to pick one value.
Since efficiency is tied to DC resistance, that’s a big one!
A good way to think of the parameters is that Thiele-Small helps you to choose a suitable enclosure type and start a design. Then for refinement, you need to consider the intended use and adjust based on the large signal parameters. Things like Bl(x), Le(x) and such are curves that also describe how the values of the transducer vary with motion. If the Bl(x) curve isn’t symmetrical, you get non-linear distortion as the drive level increases from the unequal motion front to back, for example. Check out the driver reviews on AudioXpress and Klippel’s own vast resource on their website for some examples.
I don’t think Erin needs to add the SCN to his Klippel rig, fun as it would be!
Some of this data is super interesting to see, as it isn’t stuff I’ve been able to test for myself despite having quite a few Danley boxes in my possession so thanks!
You’re already thinking about how to put the Hyperion on the scanner, right? 😅
You know it! LOL
Where is the Jerico ???? That would be a fun test... Just don't know how you would be able to power that from home mains....
You should measure at at least 8 meters at @90-96 dB as being Horn loaded it’s designed to be a „long throw“ speaker, this is the point where intermodulation effects will begin to show there, the high pass should be relatively steep and somewhere between 80 and 90Hz, the most important thing with such a construction is the phase alignment, kudos if they can achieve it passively, I’m more of a person who embraces the power of DSP and each driver , or the group of drivers, being driven actively as this means you can really clean up the responses, especially phase and resonances for individual drivers long before you try to fix the cumulative response of the box, not to speak of being able to have very steep crossover points to alleviate potential overlap inconsistencies, as we all know a paper cone and a metal compression driver have very different set of speed and damping characteristics, so the smaller the overlaps the less inconsistencies happen by trying to get two very different mechanical systems to react identically, which brings up the importance of choosing crossover points very carefully, eg if you were to take a compression driver down to 400Hz then you’ll have two very distinctive sound generating characteristics splitting the all important vocal range.
It must never be forgotten that PA systems are basically brute force and SPL, they have to be judged on their own merits of the job they are doing, so measuring at 80dB at one meter has no real value as it will not indicate what may well be 120-140dB at one meter in their „proper job“ , at those pressure levels the response would be something drastically different.
Yes but got to dos every driver separately for a good result
Can you explain the difference in layman terms the difference between the EPDR and Impedance on the Daily HiFi Podcast?
I actually have a couple links for it in my review as it’s not something I use but do want to future proof myself (though, I’ve been thinking about dropping it).
“For those who do not know what EPDR is (ahem, me until 2020), Keith Howard came up with this metric which he defined in a 2007 article for Stereophile as:
… simply the resistive load that would give rise to the same peak device dissipation as the speaker itself.”
www.stereophile.com/reference/707heavy/index.html
So, we seem to be seeing a lot of home speaker manufacturers going to pa designs. Half of the diyers are using pa parts. Somebodody talk about this elephant! Pros and cons
How do work at low volume?
Looking for danleys release for home
Are you located in GA? Isn’t that where Danley is located?
I'm in north Alabama. About 4 hours from Danley HQ.
Guess you convinced them to acquire the NFS....considering how much off their FR is compared to your data...
“Most people are going to be in a home listening to a speaker, you’re not going to be listening at 96 dB full tilt for 4 minutes - I mean I just cant imagine anybody really doing that.” SH50 owners be like - “hold my beer”
Haha!
Well, like to jam out, too. But I don’t think many people truly realize how loud 96dB is.
I created a poll on AVSForum a year or so ago. Most people said 80-85dB was their typical movie watching levels. That doesn’t account for peaks, of course.
It doesn't surprise me that a speaker rated 97 dB 2.83v 1m doesn't get warm playing 96 dB unless from far away.
I didn't hear on your video nor have have I read in the comments here a distinction of weighting in these SPL figures. 96DB A-weighted can be brutal in poor mixed music and tv. 96db C-weighted isn't very loud at all. @@ErinsAudioCorner
130dB! Hearing loss guaranteed!
A touring act brought a Danley system to our auditorium once. When they started playing some music to test the system, I couldn't believe my ears. Yeah, they get loud but that's so you can hear them from far away. And they are crystal clear at volume.
I use them as headphones, no need to turn them that high, subtle is more enjoyable than just loud and vulgar
Small speakers need not apply for review. 😭😂😅
I need more again. I can't take these tanks.
Weapons grade