I am really happy to see that you addressed this topic! I made a video specifically about this for my channel about 6 months ago because I find that once players make the connection between the scales and the function of the harmony it has a huge impact on their solos almost instantly. I'm still completely unknown on youtube, so I'm happy a channel with your reach brought this to everyone's attention. Thanks for all the great work you do!
Jay, have you ever explored the Barry Harris method for approaching changes? The way he thinks of minor is fascinating, he treats it as two dominant chords (so in key of C minor, Bb7 over the II chord and then G7 over the V and I chords). For what it's worth -- I can't make very good lines out of it, but it's a fascinating approach when you look into it.
Much ado about nothing: the sixth step in minor was always interchangable: most of the time you wil play an aeolic scale, whitch includes a minor 6 and minor 7. As a variation, a lot of beboppers, as Dexter Gordon did, emphasize the major 6 in particular places, to create an effect of surprise. To include both minor AND major 6 in one scale causes exhaustion; the contrast, which music is all about, is gone.
Robert thanks for the comment. It appears you would benefit from taking this course to get a more complete understanding of how to treat minor tonalities in the jazz idiom.
As mentioned in the video. The FUNCTION on the minor chord is the key factor. The 6th degrees are not really "interchangeable." Sure you can play them how you want, but if you don't know why you're doing it, everybody will know it and it'll probably sound like a$$. Take a close look at where and when Dex played what he did. Interchangeability assumes surrounding context is irrelevant. It's usually not. Also, nobody just plays scales, if they know what they're doing. That would certainly be boring. "Soloing with scales" is a convenient way to present the concept. Developing lines using notes FROM scales is the better way to teach it. Jerry Coker was awesome, but his scale based system was developed to be acceptable to music school faculty back when there weren't any jazz curricula. It wasn't seen as legitimate, since playing by ear was the primary method, and mentorship was how the skills were transferred to the upcoming generation. In colleges, music schools were focused on classical music. Coker packaged it all up to appeal to deans on classicalusic departments.
@@TheDesertRat31 I completely agree with you. This 'bebop scale' approach suggests that the major and minor 6the can be treated as equals, as they are both included. But considered from the frequency thet are used in a minor tune, the minor 6 would be used quite more often, as part of the aeolian scale. The major 6 would be used as a well defined contrast. Dexter Gordon would use the major 6 not as frequent as the minor 6, in his minor improvisations. Even in his compositions, like Cheese Cake, he uses the major sixt, but then only in the bridge, contrasting in this manner the A-part.
But why melodic minor bebop scale instead of harmonic minor bebop scale? (with b6 b7 M7) For example on the im7 of autumn leaves it seems more natural/obvious. (Major 6 degree is cool as a tension of course, but it seems "outside" the home tonality.)
It shouldn't make a difference. Harmonic minor should work. As long as the chords tones are prominent, non- chord tones are largely up to you as the soloist, but pay attention to alterations and extensions. Those might dictate your non-chord tone choices. Everybody thinking minor 7th as Dorian is pretty much because "chord scale theory" is garbage. It makes assumptions about non-chord tones that are non necessary and the concept is taught like it was brought down from Mt. Sinai on stone tablets. Really it's because it an easy prepackaged method for lazy teachers who probably don't know any better
Reading about other musicians can help improve your skill, even if your reading about somone who doesn't play the same instrument as you. Having a basic understanding of music notation can also be a big help, if you can't play for some reason, try memorizing notes that your struggling with, just getting a feel for what fingers play what what actually playing the note can help. You can even try and quizz yourself in you head, finding out what notes you struggle with and targeting them in the next practice session has helped me in the past. Although, practice is the meat and potatoes of everything. Talent is just a pursued interested, if your willing to become great; you have to be willing to practice first.
Practice. Start learning to transcribe. Pick easy stuff to begin with, as in: things like happy birthday, 3 blind mice, or any familiar melody that seems "too easy" the "everybody knows." You'll see pretty quickly that you might not know it. It's ear training, and training for transferring what you hear to you fingers and horn. Also, once you can play happy birthday (for example), learn it through all 12 keys.
Well, well. If the minor bebop scale suites you, fine. But this will not be the case for a lot of tunes written after 1950. In any case, talk to your fellow "comping" musicians, especially before trying this scale on pieces like "Footprints".
I’ve been trying to learn to play sax for about 6 years now ……. and I’m sorry, but I haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about. My sax only plays one note at a time, I can’t grasp how on earth a chord can be played.
You can play notes FROM chords, while you can play notes one at a time, stringing together specific notes with specific sharps or flats can give you the sound from chords and/or scales and/or modes that are minor, major, diminished, etc. A bass player for example plays single notes usually, but the bass is an exceptionally important instrument for harmony (chord progression in a song) as the bassist will outline chords by playing specific notes from those chords, usually emphasizing the root or first note in a chord (in a C major chord, the root is C). So you can play chords by stringing together notes in sequence whereas a piano player, or guitarist can play chords themselves discretely the way you can play notes discretely, does this make sense?
@@iamoroso3144 hahaha maybe, I went quite long into studying music and not quite understanding how instruments like saxophones can have anything to do with chords (turns out I was really not learning the right stuff!)
@@TheCabbageMan …….. makes sort of sense to me. I haven’t been taught much musical theory, if any. I just put a sheet of music on the stand in front of me and (try my best to) play it. The mysteries of chords, minor, major, etc, etc is a foreign language to me.
@Doug Moran Excluding extended techniques like multiphonics (when you produce more than one tone at the same time, but only "finger" one note), the saxophone is a singular note instrument. A piano, or guitar, has the flexibility to produce chords (playing more than one note, at the same time) as well as individual notes. Those instruments, and many others, are both singular and chordal instruments. Now, if you play a G major scale on the saxophone, for example, you will have played G (the Root, or 1st step of the G major scale), B (or H where i live - another convo for a another day - the 3rd step of the G major scale) and D (the 5th step of the G major scale). On saxophone you could play each note successively: G, then B, then D. But, not at the same time. Those three notes still make up a G major chord or, specifically a G major arpeggio/triad. Now ignore the fact, for the moment, that the G on a piano doesn't sound the same as a G on the saxophone. On piano, when playing G B D at the same time it is also a G major chord, or a triad...or an arpeggio too, although "arpeggiating" technically means playing one note after the other. A Triad is a group of 3 notes, each played a 3rd apart from each other. When trying to figure out an interval, always count your letters first. For example, if i wanted to figure out a 5th above G (or the 5th step in a G major scale, or the 5th of the G major chord), i would count up from G -- GABCD or 12345. In other words, G is 1, A is 2, B is 3. If i count the interval: G to A is 1, A to B is 2, B to C is 3, C to D is 4 ----oops, i just labelled D as the 4th step...but i counted 5 notes. So the D is actually the 5th step, not the 4th. Does that make sense? Send me a note, if you have more questions...happy to help.
I am really happy to see that you addressed this topic! I made a video specifically about this for my channel about 6 months ago because I find that once players make the connection between the scales and the function of the harmony it has a huge impact on their solos almost instantly. I'm still completely unknown on youtube, so I'm happy a channel with your reach brought this to everyone's attention. Thanks for all the great work you do!
I need class please can I get your number or any link for online class
I’m gonna check you out. Eric’s major key exploration pdf was a game changer so having this minor key follow up is awesome
That’s kind of you!
Jay, have you ever explored the Barry Harris method for approaching changes? The way he thinks of minor is fascinating, he treats it as two dominant chords (so in key of C minor, Bb7 over the II chord and then G7 over the V and I chords).
For what it's worth -- I can't make very good lines out of it, but it's a fascinating approach when you look into it.
Idk why I’m watching this in my history class💀
Practice never stops
😎
lmao i’m sitting in a lecture
Wil there ever be a Better Sax Tenor Saxophone ?
Very helpful
Barry Harris method... On the two cord also use the major Bebop starting on the fourth scale degree
Great video!
Very nice insight!
Much ado about nothing: the sixth step in minor was always interchangable: most of the time you wil play an aeolic scale, whitch includes a minor 6 and minor 7. As a variation, a lot of beboppers, as Dexter Gordon did, emphasize the major 6 in particular places, to create an effect of surprise. To include both minor AND major 6 in one scale causes exhaustion; the contrast, which music is all about, is gone.
Robert thanks for the comment. It appears you would benefit from taking this course to get a more complete understanding of how to treat minor tonalities in the jazz idiom.
As mentioned in the video. The FUNCTION on the minor chord is the key factor. The 6th degrees are not really "interchangeable." Sure you can play them how you want, but if you don't know why you're doing it, everybody will know it and it'll probably sound like a$$. Take a close look at where and when Dex played what he did. Interchangeability assumes surrounding context is irrelevant. It's usually not. Also, nobody just plays scales, if they know what they're doing. That would certainly be boring. "Soloing with scales" is a convenient way to present the concept. Developing lines using notes FROM scales is the better way to teach it. Jerry Coker was awesome, but his scale based system was developed to be acceptable to music school faculty back when there weren't any jazz curricula. It wasn't seen as legitimate, since playing by ear was the primary method, and mentorship was how the skills were transferred to the upcoming generation. In colleges, music schools were focused on classical music. Coker packaged it all up to appeal to deans on classicalusic departments.
@@TheDesertRat31 I completely agree with you. This 'bebop scale' approach suggests that the major and minor 6the can be treated as equals, as they are both included. But considered from the frequency thet are used in a minor tune, the minor 6 would be used quite more often, as part of the aeolian scale. The major 6 would be used as a well defined contrast. Dexter Gordon would use the major 6 not as frequent as the minor 6, in his minor improvisations. Even in his compositions, like Cheese Cake, he uses the major sixt, but then only in the bridge, contrasting in this manner the A-part.
But why melodic minor bebop scale instead of harmonic minor bebop scale? (with b6 b7 M7) For example on the im7 of autumn leaves it seems more natural/obvious. (Major 6 degree is cool as a tension of course, but it seems "outside" the home tonality.)
It shouldn't make a difference. Harmonic minor should work. As long as the chords tones are prominent, non- chord tones are largely up to you as the soloist, but pay attention to alterations and extensions. Those might dictate your non-chord tone choices. Everybody thinking minor 7th as Dorian is pretty much because "chord scale theory" is garbage. It makes assumptions about non-chord tones that are non necessary and the concept is taught like it was brought down from Mt. Sinai on stone tablets. Really it's because it an easy prepackaged method for lazy teachers who probably don't know any better
This bebop scale sounds great, obviously a minor tonic chord shares a key signature that also helps you decide 🥹
Can I have the electric Yamaha soprano if you are not going to use it
Music theory is not learned in one advanced video however; keep paying attention and, listen to your sax more than talking to it👍🏽🎶🎵🎷
im in 7 grade band and play the alto/tener sax and i was wondering what i could do to improve besides practice
Reading about other musicians can help improve your skill, even if your reading about somone who doesn't play the same instrument as you. Having a basic understanding of music notation can also be a big help, if you can't play for some reason, try memorizing notes that your struggling with, just getting a feel for what fingers play what what actually playing the note can help. You can even try and quizz yourself in you head, finding out what notes you struggle with and targeting them in the next practice session has helped me in the past. Although, practice is the meat and potatoes of everything. Talent is just a pursued interested, if your willing to become great; you have to be willing to practice first.
I’m in 4th grade and play baritone
Also listen to the historic jazz sax greats as much as possible.
Practice. Start learning to transcribe. Pick easy stuff to begin with, as in: things like happy birthday, 3 blind mice, or any familiar melody that seems "too easy" the "everybody knows." You'll see pretty quickly that you might not know it. It's ear training, and training for transferring what you hear to you fingers and horn. Also, once you can play happy birthday (for example), learn it through all 12 keys.
New mic? 🎙
Yes that’s the AEA N8 linked in description.
🙏
forget all that shit and just play
Pls I need a sax mentor
uah! 💥👍🎷🐻🎷👍💥
Well, well. If the minor bebop scale suites you, fine. But this will not be the case for a lot of tunes written after 1950. In any case, talk to your fellow "comping" musicians, especially before trying this scale on pieces like "Footprints".
Footprints is a modal tune. What we are talking about here does not apply to modal tunes.
As someone who was brought up on figured bass, I’m still struggling to believe that this is valid musical theory.
If it sounds good, it is good. To me b6 doesn’t sound good over iim7 ymmv…
You're playing chords on saxophone?
We are describing the underlying harmony on saxophone. One note at a time.
I’ve been trying to learn to play sax for about 6 years now ……. and I’m sorry, but I haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about. My sax only plays one note at a time, I can’t grasp how on earth a chord can be played.
You can play notes FROM chords, while you can play notes one at a time, stringing together specific notes with specific sharps or flats can give you the sound from chords and/or scales and/or modes that are minor, major, diminished, etc. A bass player for example plays single notes usually, but the bass is an exceptionally important instrument for harmony (chord progression in a song) as the bassist will outline chords by playing specific notes from those chords, usually emphasizing the root or first note in a chord (in a C major chord, the root is C). So you can play chords by stringing together notes in sequence whereas a piano player, or guitarist can play chords themselves discretely the way you can play notes discretely, does this make sense?
@@TheCabbageMan I hope this guy is just trolling but if not you gave a very good explanation
@@iamoroso3144 hahaha maybe, I went quite long into studying music and not quite understanding how instruments like saxophones can have anything to do with chords (turns out I was really not learning the right stuff!)
@@TheCabbageMan …….. makes sort of sense to me. I haven’t been taught much musical theory, if any. I just put a sheet of music on the stand in front of me and (try my best to) play it. The mysteries of chords, minor, major, etc, etc is a foreign language to me.
@Doug Moran Excluding extended techniques like multiphonics (when you produce more than one tone at the same time, but only "finger" one note), the saxophone is a singular note instrument. A piano, or guitar, has the flexibility to produce chords (playing more than one note, at the same time) as well as individual notes. Those instruments, and many others, are both singular and chordal instruments.
Now, if you play a G major scale on the saxophone, for example, you will have played G (the Root, or 1st step of the G major scale), B (or H where i live - another convo for a another day - the 3rd step of the G major scale) and D (the 5th step of the G major scale). On saxophone you could play each note successively: G, then B, then D. But, not at the same time. Those three notes still make up a G major chord or, specifically a G major arpeggio/triad. Now ignore the fact, for the moment, that the G on a piano doesn't sound the same as a G on the saxophone. On piano, when playing G B D at the same time it is also a G major chord, or a triad...or an arpeggio too, although "arpeggiating" technically means playing one note after the other. A Triad is a group of 3 notes, each played a 3rd apart from each other. When trying to figure out an interval, always count your letters first. For example, if i wanted to figure out a 5th above G (or the 5th step in a G major scale, or the 5th of the G major chord), i would count up from G -- GABCD or 12345. In other words, G is 1, A is 2, B is 3. If i count the interval: G to A is 1, A to B is 2, B to C is 3, C to D is 4 ----oops, i just labelled D as the 4th step...but i counted 5 notes. So the D is actually the 5th step, not the 4th. Does that make sense? Send me a note, if you have more questions...happy to help.