25 Books That Could Be The Great American Novel
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2024
- Please go watch Greg's video (heck subscribe to his channel he's great @SupposedlyFun ) to see where I got the inspiration for my video:
• Reacting to The Atlant...
My word of the day was "inherently."
Time Stamps:
00:00 Intro
00:55 Criteria
03:08 Toni Morrison
04:37 William Faulkner
05:41 Larry McMurtry
06:34 Don Dellilo
07:20 James Baldwin
08:57 Armisted Maupin
09:58 Ralph Ellison
10:54 Ernest Hemingway
12:09 Tim O'Brien
13:14 Edith Wharton
14:06 John Dos Passos
15:13 John Steinbeck
15:59 Cormac McCarthy
17:09 Denis Johnson
17:55 Tommy Orange
18:51 The Underground Railroad
19:55 Marilynn Robinson
20:39 Edward P. Jones
21:46 Jesmyn Ward
23:01 Mark Twain
24:34 Willa Cather
25:13 Louise Erdrich
26:39 Valeria Luiselli
27:56 Percival Everett
28:44 F. Scott Fitzgerald
29:20 Outro - Zábava
Great contenders. I think you could also add Moby-Dick to the list.
I was genuinely surprised to not see 'Moby-Dick'. Also surprised 'To Kill A Mockingbird' wasn't on the list.
@@excessivedetailbooktube I agree, but I think that's because there are so many contenders for GAN that it's really hard to narrow it down, even to 25 books. These are the ones that he feels strongly about, and I haven't gone through all of it, but of the ones I've read, I think it could be on par with TKAM or Moby-Dick.
I thought about it but I tried to lean away from 19th century literature and I like it less than the Wharton and the Twain.
I intentionally left To Kill a Mocking Bird off the list. In part n cause it’s always on these lists and in part because I felt that some of the other books on the list covered some of the sane ground better. Not an entirely fair approach for know.
'Moby-Dick' is my contender for THE greatest great American novel.
Great video, thanks Brian. I get a lot of guidance on my reading from your channel (as I do from Supposedly Fun) and I’ll be referring back to both of your lists. My favorite American novel is Absalom, Absalom! but guess it didn’t make the list because you chose my third favorite American novel (The Sound and the Fury) under the no-repeat rule. Thanks again!
Thank you for the kind words. Greg is great. Absalom. Absalom is great.
Suddenly struck me that Pioneer stories are road trip novels made by wagon rather than car... "American Pastoral" is a great American novel but just of the 1960s.
True. Lonesome Dove is a kind of a road trip novel with lots of cows. I couldn’t finish American Pastoral.
@@BookishTexan American Pastoral was just too odd and unreadable for me; so glad to see someone else say DNF.
@@laurateall8847 I just felt like I had read the same(ish) story a dozen times.
Most of these I had not read, but I will make sure to fix that. Thanks for the great guide. I do have a comment but will finish first to see if you address my perceived omission.
This is a great list, Brian. I agree with so many of your choices, though I might include Grapes of Wrath for Steinbeck instead of Of Mice and Men. (I know you don't love GoW, but I do think it is a quintessentially American novel). I absolutely agree with the Louise Erdrich novel that you have chosen. I need to think about what I would include in my list. Just off the top of my head, though, I know that my list would include To Kill a Mockingbird. I would also include Barbara Kingsolver. While she does not always set her books in the US, Demon Copperhead is a very important book about America right now, in this moment. I think Joyce Carol Oates probably belongs on a list of Great American Novelists, but I'm not sure what book I would pick. Maybe We Were the Mulvaneys? I need to think on this some more. But thank you, Brian, once again, for such a thoughtful video.
I have only read one Kingsolver and it was set in Africa. I am going to try to get to Demon Copperhead this year. I’ve never read anything by JCO which feels shameful now that I am typing it. I left Mockingbird off intentionally because it is always on these lists and I think some of the other titles cover some of the same ground.
Mockingbird is always on these lists. It just has such personal significance to me, it would have to be on my list. Yes, one of Kingsolver’s great novels is set in Africa, but many others are set in the U.S. I just think Demon Copperhead is really important as it deals with the ravages of the opioid epidemic, specifically in Appalachia among the poor. Sadly, it’s a very American story in the 21st Century. Really interesting exercise, Brian. Thanks!
There was only one book on your list with which I am unfamiliar. (Lost Children Archive)
I would have incorporated The Grapes of Wrath on my list (I know your feelings on that one, however)
I also would have included Moby Dick.
I saw Greg’s video and was confused by the criteria The Atlantic used in choosing the books on their list. I appreciated your criteria being clear at the beginning.
Great video. Well done, Brian. And thank you.
Thanks Tess. I didn’t include Moby Dick because I wanted to lean away from the 19th Century and like Huck and Age of Innocence much more.
Nice to see this, Brian! I was surprised to see which Erdrich novel you chose, though that is one I enjoyed. I might have to try and put together a list of 25 alternative contenders.
The more I think about Dos Passos’ USA, the more I wish that the ratio of camera eye/newsreel/biography pages to POV characters’ pages was reversed. I enjoyed the experimental ones so much more than the straightforward ones when we reread it.
Thanks Jack. I hope you will make a list. I would love to see it.
I completely agree with you on wishing the ratio of straight narrative to experimental sections in the trilogy had been reversed.
No humor to speak of in list.
@@lindachene5006 Huck Finn, The Trees, Tales of the City all have funny parts.
As I was listening to the criteria, I had exactly that thought about much of Hemingway's work not qualifying.
This is a great collection, spanning various facets of the American experience, from the personal to the societal, and it's fascinating to consider the pervasive theme of violence. I've heard of many of them, but others are new to me, including: "Tales of the City" and "Gilead" by Marilynne Robinson and "Remember, Remember".
I'm intrigued to revisit "Huckleberry Finn", especially as its inspiring contemporary works (I have both "James" by Percival Everett and "Adventures of Mary Jane" by Hope Jahren on my TBR). Thrilled to see The Trees on your list! I read it a couple of years ago, and it blew me away. And, of course, the book closing off your list always springs to mind. Thank you for such a thoughtful discussion, I've added a few of these to my TBR.
Thank you Katja. I listened to Huck Finn as a way of rereading it and I think it enhanced my reading of James even though I don't think it was necessary. The Trees is one of my favorites in recent years. It is hard for me to make a list without including it.
Great list Brian & discussion of your reasons for including them. I have to ask you about Moby Dick. Did you leave it off bc it doesn’t take place on American land/in America?? If so, I have to argue that the ship & ocean are Melville’s metaphor for America & his story is an allegory of manifest destiny, which IMO is THE story of American history along with those of slavery & the Civil War. Obviously MD really gets going after the CW & 1851 when MD was published but it had started with the early expansions west & the decimation of the indigenous people east of the Mississippi River. And Ahab’s obsession with conquering MD is Melville’s telling of America’s obsession with conquering Nature & acquiring more & more territory & wealth. Thanks again!! 😊
That is a really interesting take on Moby Dick and one I have not read before. I'll have to think about that. MD is a man v nature/man v self novel so I think what you said makes sense. However, I didn't include MD because I was trying to lean away from 19th Century novels and I like Huck Finn and Age of Innocence much more than Moby Dick.
The Wharton was published in 1920.
@@duckylittledictum6149 True, though the setting is nineteenth-century.
To Kill a Mockingbird? I was surprised by your Erdrich pick, but happy to hear it get some love. I'd include some different authors (Sinclair Lewis, Roth, Updike, Doctorow), but I can't knock your list.
Thanks. I intentionally, and probably unfairly, left Mockingbird off the list. In part because it seems to always be on these lists and in part because I thought some of the other books covered the same ground from a different POV.
Thanks for citing Sinclair Lewis. His novels are chock full of so many aspects of American life: Main Street/ Babbitt/Arrowsmith/ Elmer Gantry/ Dodsworth. I read most of them decades ago however I read “It Can’t Happen Here” about three years ago and I was shocked at how politically prescient it was in so many ways. It was written in 1935 and was rumored to be satire regarding Huey Long, an autocratic Louisiana politician. However, it can be read with larger, than life current US politician in mind. It was unsettling.
This is an interesting and sure to be thought provoking discussion. I like the way you identified the parameters for your choices.
I’ve have read about half of the novels you listed. One which was a fairly recent Pulitzer Prize winner had an important and unique story to tell but the prose was tedious and boring. It proved to me (once again) that Pulitzer Prizes are no guarantee that I will enjoy reading the novel.
( To any of your subscribers who might be reading the comments, I recommend “Their Eyes Were Watching God” by Zora Neale Hurston.” )
Their Eyes Were Watching God is certainly worthy of being on this list.
Great list. I would probably find room for one of the Roths that others have mentioned as well as “Rabbit, Run”. I would throw in a Franzen, perhaps even “Crossroads”. I couldn’t make the list without “American Tabloid” by James Ellroy or “The Big Sleep” by Raymond Chandler. I might struggle to leave out “Infinite Jest” despite its flaws and I might squeeze in “Demon Copperhead” because it’s so good.
Honorable mentions to “Passing” by Nella Larsen, “Breakfast at Tiffany’s” by Truman Capote and “The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay” by Michael Chabon.
I thought about Rabbit, Run but didn’t think it was better than the others I listed. I haven’t read Crossroads and didn’t like The Corrections much. Haven’t read DC, Elroy, or Chandler. I’m afraid I never considers Infinite Jest. Just don’t think it will last (neither might the ones I did choose of course). Kavelier and Clay is definitely a book I want to read.
@@BookishTexanWhy don’t you think Infinte Jest will last?
@@Robert-si5su I think it will likely be read for a few more decades, but I think in the end it’s length, the endnotes, and it’s style will cause it to fade. I think it will likely continue to have a shrinking, almost exclusively male readership for a long time.
Great list! I haven't read James Baldwin's Another Country yet, but it's the next of his books on my list. There are a couple of others that I really need to get to someday. I get excited every time Age of Innocence gets recognized as well. I would still include To Kill a Mockingbird on my own list, but oh well.
Thank you Greg and thanks for the inspiration. To Kill a Mockingbird probably should have been on my list.
The United States is so diverse no one book can be "The Great American Novel"
That’s true.
There can't be a singular great American novel because there isn't a singular America.
I really like the thought you put into this list. And definitely agree that the books on this list should be set in the States, and in some way about America. A few of the books on the Atlantic's list didn't quite make sense to me for that reason.
I agree about some of the books on the list not fitting the idea of The Great American Novel. Marlon James novel A Brief History of Seven Killings for example.
Terrific list, though I hate to admit to many of them I haven’t read (yet). Important to resist, for myself, being too creative, so I’d just second Huckleberry Finn. Re-read it as a adult and the vision of Huck and Jim on the raft (at night!) was epic and. Iconic and indelible, all you can ask of a lasting symbol.
I was reminded of the greatness of HF when I reread it/listened to the audiobook. If I hadnt I might not have included it. But I agree with your assessment.
thank you so much for this list! I'm ashamed to admit there were several I didn't even know about! And I can get many (at least eventually, helllooo waitlists) through at least one of my libraries in audio so all the better! You know this list reminded me of an evolving hypothesis. Those who enjoy Hemingway and those who I hear praise Steinbeck don't seem to be often in the same camp. (I'm sorry to say that I'm team Steinbeck in that equation) not that I've ever heard of any sort of comparison/juxtaposition. It's just that on these types of lists or talk of classics I tend to hear reviews be passionate about one and appreciate but don't enjoy/enjoy as much the other.
No reason for shame. Nobody can read all the books. I like the Hemingway/Steinbeck hypothesis. Their writing styles are very different. Thanks for the great comment.
So glad to find another “Another Country” fan. It feels like Giovanni’s Room gets all the love
It feels that way to me as well. Glad to know I’m not alone in loving Another Country more.
Excellent list! Lonesome Dove is probably the book I think of first when I hear “great American novel”.
Thank you Heidi.
(Out of curiosity: Which is your favorite from Louise Erdrich?)
Plague of Doves is my favorite Erdrich novel though I really liked The Sentence as well. I think it is a bit under appreciated.
I love that your list highlights the breadth of American culture(s)-from the South to elite NY, from the prairie to the West, enslaved and immigrant and native, etc. I think your list makes it very clear that there never can be a single Great American Novel.
I agree that there can never be just one Great American Novel. I had a hard time limiting myself to twenty-five which I felt was the largest number the list could contain without being unwieldy. Thanks Hannah.
I enjoyed your list! Nice surprise to see Tales of the City; I'm currently reading that series. I think there can never be one great American novel - the diversity and range of absolutely essential themes cannot be captured in just one novel. If you're going to cheat with the short stories, go ahead and include Flannery O'Connor! There are many of my favorites here but I'd also consider Octavia Butler and James McBride.
Yep, not cheating for O’Connor was a mistake. I agree that you probably can’t find a single book to give the title.
In the Lake of the Woods is such an amazing novel, and it seems like nobody knows about it! Loved seeing it on this list. So many wonderful books here, but I would also include Stegner's Angle of Repose (although not sure what book it could replace here). And maybe The Human Stain--I'm not a huge Roth fan, but that book is amazing.
I was blown away by In the Lake of the Woods. O'Brien's reputation today seems to be based almost completely on his books set in Vietnam, but this one was really great. I have some issues with Angle of Repose. I am going to try another Roth novel. I tried to read American Pastoral a few years ago and DNF'd it because I lost interest. Thanks Priscilla.
No John Williams? Stoner - Butcher’s Crossing - Augustus.
I have read neither so I couldn't in good conscience put them on my list.
@@BookishTexan tssssss…. ☺️
I nominate The Confidence Man, by Herman Melville. It's more American than Moby Dick, and particularly appropriate to our times. Been thirty years since I read it, and due for another read.
Other favorites: Desolation Angels - Jack Kerouac; One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest - Ken Kesey (I should try Sometimes A Great Notion first, though); The Day Of The Locust - Nathaniel West.
Honorable Mention: Montana Gothic - Dirck Van Sickle; Another Roadside Attraction - Tom Robbins (it's been more than 40 years since I read either of these, and I don't trust my judgement).
Funny thing about Of Mice And Men, in the movie the leads are played by The Penguin and The Wolfman. I started Cannery Row but got distracted. Travels With Charley kind of reads like a novel.
Thank you for the nomination. I have not read The Confidence Man. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is a book that I think is worth considering. I haven't read the other books on your list. But thank you for sharing your list with me.
Great list!
My great American novel is A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole. Nothing does a better job of capturing the essence of New Orleans in the 1960s.
I will keep a few of these in mind when I want to read another great American novel.
I do love A Confederacy of Dunces! Thanks for watching!
@@BookishTexan I keep telling my wife we need to go on our pilgrimage to New Orleans and eat a hot dog in front of the statue of Ignatius 😂.
Willa Cather is my favorite novelist, along with Stegner, McCarthy and McMurtry. Also, Train Dreams absolutely blew my mind. It felt like a fever dream when i read it and have never read anything like it before or since.
I need to look up the O'Brien book. Very interested in that one.
The O’Brien is very good. A bit of a thriller with some interesting storytelling techniques. Agree about Train Dreams. All the authors you listed are excellent writers.
I haven’t read enough to be able to contribute one way or the other, but I recently picked up Library of America’s _USA_ which one never hears talked about - so I wonder about that. I’m also trying to get to _East of Eden_ (not on your list) this year. That great American author has never called to me.
I am reading East of Eden this year as a part of the Classics and Co reading series. I think it will ultimately decide my opinion on Steinbeck one way or another.
I absolutely love the USA trilogy, it's so encompassing in character and scope that it seems to me most fitting for the category of "Great American Novel." Hop you enjoy it!
Good selection. I would include one more nominee: On the Road
There would have been a time where On the Road would have been on my list.
“American Pastoral” & “The Plot Against America” would be on my list. The former a commentary on the effects of the Vietnam War on an “apple pie and Chevrolet” American family and the latter a prescient, foreboding of a potential America that is frighteningly close to becoming a reality.
I thought you might mention books by Roth. I did try American Pastoral, but it just didn’t get into it. I wish I had read Roth before reading so much Updike or Bellow. There novels aren’t identical of course, but AP just felt like a story I had already read. I know this is unfair since I DNF’d it about 60% of the way in.
I think that you would find “The Plot Against America” more to your liking based on your interest in politics and the current governmental state of affairs. I also think you would find “The Human Stain” which deals with race and the implications affecting the life of a professor compelling.
These great American novels seem to mostly be highly critical of America and Americans! 20 years ago I probably would have included "The Brothers K" by David James Duncan (which is set during the Vietnam War) in this list, though I really need to reread it to see what I think of the spiritual aspects of its themes at this point in my life.
Thanks for the recommendation!
In the interest of supporting the underdog and perhaps sparking someone's curiosity, I'd like to put in a word for Henry Roth's Call It Sleep, please. Granted, Roth didn't arrive in the US until he was two years old, but the book is pungently American, and in my opinion pretty great. Thank you - I think the list is one of the better ones.
I have been meaning to read Call It Sleep for decades. Thank you for reminding me.
Could you post the connection to the Atlantic article and the podcast of your friend who inspired you to make your own list”
Thank you for watching there is a link to the Booktuber who inspired my video in the show notes below the video. I believe he has a link to the Atlantic article.
As I was listening to your intro I was making a mental note of who would likely be in the 25 - Saul Bellow, Vladimir Nabokov, Henry James, Herman Melville, Norman Mailer, Philip Roth, Truman Capote, John Updike, plus maybe some of the modern contenders such as Foster Wallace, Pynchon, Wolfe, Tartt or even Auster.
So as I’m nearing the end of your video I’m realising I’m on 0 out of 13, and that perhaps the contenders are not so obvious after all. FWIW I don’t think your list is that controversial.
It wasn’t necessarily my intent to be controversial though it was my intent to present a diverse list of books to provide a diverse view of the American experience.
Where is Flannery O'Connor?
I haven't read her novel and was really focusing on the novel only. Though I did cheat for Hemingway, so good point!
Not a fan of Another Country. I think it’s dated fairly badly. The version I read was british and had been translated into ‘british english’, so characters said things like, ‘Get your arse outta here!’ Took me out of the story.
Good pick: two excellent novels, both on very American themes. In a poll of ‘best Catholic novel’, they’d both rate highly.
I discovered Hemingway at 14 in the mid 1970s, been reading and re-reading him since. Big Two Hearted River, especially. There’s a pristine innocence in it (with a subtext of tragedy) that entranced me from the first.
But I also reflect on how I’m different as I experience it in different stages of my life. And Hemingway’s stature in our culture has changed dramatically, despite being dead the whole time, as well.
I can imagine someone just saying this is a story about fishing, and I don’t know how it has the almost mystical effect that it does, for me. Clearly the “two-hearted” nature of life - the promise of the crystalline river, as well as the “tragic” fishing of the swamp - is a lifelong theme with Hemingway. But that indefinable power within the simplest of writing, is the modernist genius of Hemingway, IMO.
Your comment is great. Thank you for sharing. I read my first Hemingway at about 19 and immediately fell into the Pappa Wannabe club. But the more I read the less the persona mattered, even in his books where there isn’t much beyond persona. The power and the beauty of his writing amazes me still. When I read Big Two Hearted River I feel a kinship of sorts with a person who is beaten down, but finds comfort in routine, details, practiced motion, and nature. Who is partially healed by doing something they love and are good at.
@@BookishTexan The macho persona thing never mattered much to me either way, because Hemingway’s human sensitivity comes thru from the first, in his writing. Such as Jake Barnes (his stand-in) being wounded in the groin. EH couldn’t JUST be a brute to write of such a concern, as such a young man himself. Or the psychiatric troubles of the young soldiers in those Italian hospital stories.
And of course Nick in that story is returning there after SOMETHING traumatic in his life, and I like that it’s never explained. The description of the burned over landscape, which has left the River untouched, is simple but profound subtext, I find. Especially the singed but still lively grasshoppers !
I've read Marilynne Robinson's novel "Gilead" and thought it was wonderful. Admittedly, it's not every ones cup of tea. I read as much as I can find, even her speeches and essays
I read a collection of her essays and they weren't for me, but Gilead is beautiful.
Really excellent list! I added 6 books to my reading queue:
Beloved
Underworld
Invisible Man
In the Lake of the Woods (I'm a Minnesota native)
The Underground Railroad
The Trees
Finishing classic sci-fi, Dune, now. I haven't read much sci-fi and was pleasantly surprised. Starting Vladimir Sorokin's Day of the Oprichkin tommorow and Walter Miller's A Canticle for Liebowitz after that. I'm determined to follow through with this list! 😂
I read A Canticle for Leibovitz for a college class many years ago. I temper liking it.
Interesting video - of course, the book everyone mentions when discussing this question is Moby Dick - I guess you disqualified that because it's set on the oceans, tho one could maybe argue that the ship is a microcosm of America? idk - another major contender is Uncle Tom's Cabin, which is probably the single most popular and influential book in American history, tho its status has changed - another one is McTeague, which also became one of the Great American Films, the legendary Greed
I tried to lean away from 19th Century titles and like the Twain and Wharton better than MD. I think several of the novels on my list cover the sane topic as Uncle Tom’s Cabin from a more authentic place. I’ve never read McTeague, but will look it up. Thanks!
@@BookishTexanJust in terms of the topic, I read an interesting article once (Harper's or Atlantic, I think) saying that Stowe was more uncompromising than Twain in her opposition to slavery
- because w Huck Finn, we presumably realize along w Huck that slavery's wrong, when he has his epiphany,
whereas in Cabin, the horror and injustice of slavery is a given from the outset, and the focus is on the slaves themselves, and their desire for freedom and happiness
- and IMO the case for Stowe has authenticity in the sense that her book was the most popular in the US in the 1800s, and had enormous impact on the country - I think there's a strong case for it as the most "important" American novel, if not the best
- but Twain's writing is certainly more clever and less hamfisted - Stowe's work feels more like watching a silent film melodrama, which has its own kind of power
- my own favorite candidate is Moby Dick - but from your list I might go w Beloved - I tend to lean towards earlier works w such questions because the passage of time I think helps us see their emerging cultural stature more clearly
The Invisible Man is really great. Read it in high school 50 years ago. I am most certainly not a big reader at all but IMO one of the very best writers of fiction in the 20th century is Carlos Castaneda with his Don Juan books. They were extraordinary to me.
Thank you so much for recommending Casteneda’s work.
@@BookishTexan I wonder if the New York Times still has them under the Non Fiction section. I know they did for a very long time.
I started watching Booktube right after Great Circle was published and I know there was mixed reactions to it across the boards, but I don’t recall if you read and commented on it.
But I could see it as a contender here. Foremost, for a strong female narrative over a large scope of time, epically told, especially using a dual timeline and two women of different eras.
Prohibition and WWII are key historical events dealt with in depth and aviation and Hollywood, two American industries that are intertwined in the fabric of America and also have world impact and implications.
Rugged individualism (pulling in a bit of recent video) is an important element here too, as well as sense of adventure and discovery.
There’s a character who is an artist, who approaches the world in that way, a Native American character who suffers prejudice and alienation. There’s domestic violence, sexuality, emerging feminism and female independence. It just covers and hits upon many quintessential elements of America that it seems right for this list.
Pulling a title that was on the Atlantic list that I think fills some key American elements that are missing or not as strongly represented on your list of books is Didion’s Play It As It Lays. First and foremost, the representation of Hollywood and the movies that has done so much to shape and convey American ideas, ideals and culture at home and abroad. A strongly female centered story, especially told in the shadow of early feminism, but also the vulnerability and abuses women face at the hands of men. Another important element in the story is abortion, which as recent events have told us, remains a very fraught and American fixation.
I will say it been two decades plus since I read it, and my admiration and its artistry has grown considerably in my mind since reading then, but I do have hopes of revisiting it soon as I embark on a reading of her full body of work beginning with the novels.
I have not read The Great Circle though from descriptions of it that I have seen on booktube and your description here I think it meets my criteria. I've only read one book by Didion and right now the title eludes me but I was impressed with her writing style.
Bonfire of the Vanities. Canadian here, lived in Cleveland for six years. Reminded me so much of my time in Cleveland in the 80’s-early 90’s.
I haven’t read it. The only Tom Wolfe I’ve read is The Electric Koolaide Acid Test.
I have to say that I really loathe Bonfire of the Vanities. I was living in NYC when it was published, and the book was taken almost verbatim from news pieces in the Daily News. So, accurate picture, but zero creativity and really nothing added by the novelist.
I thought The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn was already considered a Great American Novel. I would add The Adventures of Tom Sawyer to that list as well. Perhaps I may be biased since it's a childhood favorite of yours truly, but I think it's truly underrated in comparison to its more famous sibling.
Also sir, John Steinbeck is an exceptional writer...when he's on form, ok you might have a point there. But I think East of Eden is one of the great novels of the American canon.
I also really enjoyed The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay, it was one of my favorite books that I read last year. One might argue against it, but I think it captures our very American obsession with comics, particularly superhero comics.
Kindred from Octavia Butler should be on lists for 'Great American Novel' even though it is a speculative fiction novel. I thought it was a chilling exploration on how easy it is to acclimate to evil and how the sins of our past never truly leave us, no matter how hard we try to forget.
Great video nonetheless.
Yes, I definitely should have given Kindred more consideration. I flirted with the idea of including Chabon’s Mysteries of Pittsburgh, but I haven’t read Kavelier and Klay. Since I limited myself to one book per author Tom Sawyer lost out. I am hoping to get to East of Eden this year.
You will for Classics & Cie ☺️
Try John Grisham's "A Painted House'.
It's a 1950s rewrite of Tom Sawyer.
It'll surprise any Grisham fan who has only read his Legal Thrillers.
(Not saying it's a GAN but it is very readable).
I was going to say Kindred too
No Humboldt’s Gift by Saul Bellow eh?
Haven’t read it. The Adventures of Augie March crossed my mind though.
The best for me are two novels; ' A Little Life ' ( not mentioned ) and ' Another Country ' which is.
I haven’t read A Little Life. Not sure it is for me based on what I have heard,
I like the other and I think greater book that came out the same years as Gatsby.
That is An American Tragedy by Theodore Dreiser. It has a lot of the same wannabe stuff as Gatsby but is to me more expansive and intense. It’s also a whole lot longer, more pages.
I’ve never read Dreiser, but have a copy of American Tragedy. Thanks for the recommendation.
Annie Dillard 'An American Chilhood' was brilliant! Greetings from Ireland 🙂 🇨🇮
Thank you for adding your recommendation. I’ve only read one book by Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek. Slainte.
She's a marvelous writer, so descriptive of American Culture, well worth investigating!
A few suggestions:
_The Bostonians_ by Henry James. A story contrasting Northern vs. Southern political views (read: liberal vs. conservative) at the end of the Civil War. Controversial in its time.
_Mason & Dixon_ by Thomas Pynchon. A tall tale of the men who surveyed the boundary between Maryland and Pennsylvania.
_On the Road_ by Jack Kerouac. The definitive novel of the 1950s beat generation.
I considered Maxon & Dixon which I do like a good bit. I do not enjoy the works of Henry James and those that I have read are not set in the US and don't necessarily focus on Americans or American issues. I thought about On the Road as well, but in the end felt the books on the list were better.
What about East of Eden or The Grapes of Wrath
I’m really not a Steinbeck fan and I dislike The Grapes of Wrath. I am planning on reading East of Eden this December so there is still a chance.
Also: Ann Petry! Where is The Street? 😊 And I agree on Kindred, such a great book.
Never read Petry.
@@BookishTexan This is right up your alley!
I believe The Grapes of Wrath is head and shoulders above Of Mice and Men. Cannery Row is pretty good, too, limning a specific time in between changes. You correctly identified Lonesome Dove, but I think a few good ones slipped past. Catch 22 captures the insanity of war, and the personalities it fosters. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, too, is essential, for understanding the 'Sixties, if nothing else. The Last of the Mohicans deserves a spot, for its clear-headed assessment of the issues in the decades before the American Revolution, and The Caine Mutiny nails the backwater war experience. Well-rounded list, otherwise!
Cannery Row is my favorite Steinbeck who is not my favorite author. I am in the minority who really does not like The Grapes of Wrath. Catch 22 I felt was too much about war (as you point out) and not necessarily about the US and its issues. If I were to choose a JF Cooper it would be The Deerslayer for its celebration of the American landscape. Thanks for sharing your list and ideas.
My father's family left Oklahoma in 1932, after four years of bad crops, no rain, rain at the wrong time, too much rain, and too little rain. The bank wouldn't lend on a fifth year, so the family, three couples and two siblings, plus five children piled everythibg they could onto my great-uncle's 1929 Studebaker pickup, bought new with proceeds from the last good harvest, in late 1928, and traveled west. They went to Roswell, where other members of the family had moved earlier, then to Buckeye, west of Phoenix, before returning to New Mexico, where my family stayed for twenty years.
The Grapes of Wrath is the only one of Steinbeck's novels that transcends its place in time, a story of a movement that redefined America. Cannery Row is about the death of the California fishing industry, and Of Mice and Men about the trials of being young men in an era when jobs were as scarce as hens' teeth (and hens don't have teeth!), and every hand was raised against most of them, by people afraid that contact with the unfortunates would be catching. All three are important novels about a period that still looms large in American history and culture, but seems more picturesque than real in the rear view.
I think Catch 22 captures America-at-war better than any other book, from Yossarian's reactions, to Major Major and Milo Minderbender, the ultimate capitalist. Maybe one needs to be a veteran of the chaos of war, the insanity and stupidity of the practice. It is mankind's enduring contribution to economic theory. The issues that confront modern Americans are all there: Grifters, losers, liars, self-promoters, the vainglorious, and the sad sacks, engaged in the same kind of shenanigans that went on in Iraq and Afghanistan, and VietNam before them. I cannot recall any vet I've spoken to about the book, of those who read it, that objected to its portrayal of the service. I read the book in 1967, the first time. A year later, I was in VietNam, experiencing some of the same insanity I had read about, from rampant Trump-style capitalism, to Donnie Dingbat cowardice, and the whole rainbow of actions, mistakes, and reactions in between.
I haven’t read underworld yet, but I feel like white noise will be regarded as a great modern American novel
Perhaps. Though I feel like DeLillo’s books may fade. To me Underworld has the best chance of lasting. I hope you will read it.
I think this is a solid list, especially given the parameters you set for the exercise. I'm not nearly as well read as you, but here are some initial thoughts I can offer in response:
I think the list is too concentrated post-nineteenth century, as I think the single greatest great American novel, Herman Melville's 'Moby-Dick; or, The Whale' was published in the middle of that century. And except for its setting in the colonial era predating the establishment of the American republic, Nathaniel Hawthorne's 'The Scarlet Letter' is a key work of American letters, adumbrating the deep legacy of moral hypocrisy, sexual shame, and religious intolerance that have been recurrent features of the American experience.
The late American critic Harold Bloom held Willa Cather's 'A Lost Lady' (1923) and 'The Professor's House' (1925) as the full peers of 'My Ántonia', the third of her essential fictions in his view. Bloom also preferred 'The Custom of the Country' (1913) to Edith Wharton's other extended fictions (and incidentally, he thought she was underrated as a short-story writer). My sister regards John Steinbeck's 'The Grapes of Wrath' (1939) as one of the central American novels, especially within the context of the twentieth-century experience. Flannery O'Connor's 'Wise Blood' (1952), though generally regarded as inferior to her short stories, remains an essential witness to the idiosyncratic, schizoid American approach to religion and faith. William Styron's 'Sophie's Choice' (1979) is an important work in examining the initial American response to the Holocaust.
I hold that Marilynne Robinson's 'Housekeeping' (1980) is one of the great English-language novels of the twentieth century, as well as one of the most beautiful.
Finally, which work among your selections, if any, would or could you single out as the most beautiful from a purely aesthetic perspective? Beauty of language and singular style are the most important criteria for me in evaluating a work of literature's stature.
Thanks for your list and thoughts on it.
Many of the books you listed -- Wise Blood, Housekeeping, A Lost Lady, and several others-- are books that I have not read and therefore could not in good conscience include on my list. Which is an important key to my list. It is a list based on my own reading and reading taste. My intention was to lean away from the 19th Century because I wanted to emphasize the idea that we don't have to look to the past to answer the question posed in this video and because 19th Century novels depict the US from only one point of view. Twentieth and twenty-first century works provide a more diverse view of the US which I think is important. Moby Dick is a great book (other than the misinfo about whales), but it isn't a favorite of mine. It would certainly be as worthy of the GAN title as any American book. I often disagree with the late Harold Bloom. I disliked The Custom of the Country a great deal.
How is "Gone With the Wind" not on the list? It took on the country's greatest tragedy embedded and embodied in the story of a spoiled, irresponsible woman who epitomized her society's catastrophic failings and drove her to be wiser and more adult in the ruins of her own making. It got there first to the story that generations of black writers can't stop telling.
Because it’s my list and I think GWTW is racist, Klan loving, lynching justifying, melodrama that warped peoples view of the reality of slavery. Scarlett is a great character though.
You know why.
Highly recommend Look Homeward, Angel
Thank you.
This is great. I am writing the Great American memoir. I got the idea to call it that from this video. Thank you.
Great! You’re welcome.
While I have been on a serious reading kick lately, this list tells me I have a lot of work to do….😂
Ah. It is impossible to catch up. Just make sure you are reading the books you want to read.
Listen, this video. ROCKS. It deserves a better thumbnail. It is not doing you any favours. It looks untimely, and it is in an outdated art style.
Thank you for your hard work.
Thank you. I was going for jingoistic camp .
Maybe next time you could do a top 50 so that you could add 25 more books about racism and misogyny
I feel like my list has struck a never, but I cant imagine why. If you are looking for two titles that meet both of your criteria that arent already on my list you might try Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neal Hurston and The Color Purple by Alice Walker.
Interesting mixture. They all appear to be worthy. Thanks for not including Gone with the Wind. But I think Hurston’s Their Eyes Were Watching God, and Walker’s The Color Purple are glaring omissions. And no shade, but Invisible Man is an American classic. Period! I find it ridiculous that this kind of separation still persists, and it wouldn’t if fair minded individuals simply stop perpetuating it.
Thanks for a thoughtful list though. I enjoy your videos.
I think both Their Eyes Were Watching God and The Color Purple are great and another day one or both might have made my list. I meant no disrespect or diminishment of Ellison’s book. It is a classic work of American Literature.
Underworld by Don DeLillo
Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy
Against the day, by Thomas Pynchon
The Invisible Man by Ralf Ellison
All but one of these is on my list.
Wallace Stegner, Angle of Repose
Flannery O’Connor definitely. 0:03
I didn’t include O’Connor because I haven’t read her novel and that is what I was ranking. Though I did cheat for Hemingway so you have a point. I have issues with Stegner and Angle of Repose.
William Carlos Williams wrote the great American novel and it’s called: The Great American Novel. Unfortunately, I think I may be the only one alive who has ever read it.
One I might consider for an expansive look at the US is American Tabloid by James Ellroy.
The one that tried hard to fill this bill, but seems all but forgotten nowadays, is EL Doctorows Ragtime. I thought it was quite good.
My basic quibble with most candidates is that they are too narrowly focused for the category. Southern Gothic is obviously a part of America, but it leaves out so much, as do Manhattanite books, or the Salinas Valley, etc…
I haven't read that book by William Carlos Williams (so I cant disprove your theory) or Ellroy and only one book by EL Doctorow and I limited my list to books I have read. Your last point is a great one and exactly why I don't think there can be a singular Great American Novel and why I chose 25 candidates. Thanks for sharing your list and thoughts.
Just write a book about the injustices of slavery, and you will be on this list. On a serious note, Blood Meridian is #1, and the rest are a distant second. How can anyone argue the depth of symbolism and criptic messaging that goes on in this book if you are well read in the classics. Cormac brings many of the greatest works forward and incorporates them in this novel. Not only that, but his research on the subject was unparallel. Nothing like it to date when referring to the greatest American novels. The late Harold Bloom would not disagree with that assessment.
The list is of course based on my reading tastes. I’m always a little perplexed when McCarthy fans aren’t satisfied with my inclusion of Blood Meridian on my lists and insist instead that I should acknowledge it as the greatest. It’s a great book. That it is criptive novel full of classical illusions is not what makes it great to me.
@@BookishTexan I'm just giving you a hard time. Obviously it's all individual preference. Great content, btw.
Thomas Wolfe captured middle America at early twentieth century in Look Homeward Angel.
I've never read Wolfe though I did read a biography of him.
@@BookishTexan Look Homeward Angel is more of an awesome memoir which is why he next wrote You Can't Go Home Again.
Doesn’t qualify because it doesn’t talk about slavery.
@@marthacanady9441 say more
@@marthacanady9441Second choice: Native Son by Richard Wright.
I've noticed that 9 out of 25 books have slavery and/or discrimination as their main theme.
Slavery is the original sin of the United States and the racial divisions that flowed from it and plague us still today are a major theme in US history.
This suggests a Great American Ex-patriot Novel theme. The problem being if you maintain the criterion of only one book per author.
I have read "White Noise" by Don DeLillo. I have not read "Underworld", so I don't know how much better "Underworld" may be.
I want to reread "In the Lake of the Woods", since it has been a long time since I read it and I remember it being very good.
"Uncle Tom"s Cabin" by Harriet Beecher Stowe.
Something by Kurt Vonnegut - "Slaughterhouse-Five" takes place in several locations, but seems very American, even as representative of America/Earth on Tralfamadore.
"Wise Blood" by Fannery O'Connor and "A Confederacy of Dunces" by William Kennedy Toole - Hazel Motes and Ignatius J. Reilly are some of the most memorable characters and may be quintessential Americans.
"The Maltese Falcon" by Dashiel Hammett. I prefer the Continental Op to Sam Spade and would choose "Red Harvest", but I expect that most people would probably choose "The Maltese Falcon".
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I was trying to lean away from 19th Century titles and I thought some of the 20th century books cover the same ground as Uncle Tom’s cabin and more authentically. Vonnegut used to be a favorite of mine. Hammet and the others are all great suggestions. Thank you.
In the Lake of the Woods was a real surprise. Much better than I thought it would be.
I would choose Red Harvest too, although all of Hammett is pretty damn good.
@@BookishTexan At the time I had read a bunch of Tim O'Brien's books. "Going After Cacciato" was the most divergent from the rest, with its magical realism in Vietnam. All of the books are about Vietnam, but O'Brien has so many ways of freshly approaching Vietnam and My Lai.
He reminds me of the Player's description of the plays they perform from "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead".
PLAYER "They’re hardly divisible, sir-well, I can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and I can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and I can do you all three concurrent or consecutive, but I can’t do you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory-they’re all blood, you see."
GUIL "Is that what people want?"
PLAYER "It’s what we do."
My Lai is always relevant to O'Brien's books. "On the Consolation of Philosophy" is always relevant for Ignatius J. Reilly. For me, it might be Henry II whining about turbulent priests. So many people surround themselves with Yes men and so many people defend the craven obedience of those Yes men. It may be the biggest danger to morality - and it is relevant to My Lai.
One of the book groups I was in was reading "In the Lake of the Woods" and I had not known that O'Brien had a new book out. I like mysteries and I thought I knew where the book was going, but I was wrong.
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'Uncle Tom's Cabin' has strong claim to being the most historically impactful work of fiction ever written by an American. Abraham Lincoln when meeting author Harriet Beecher Stowe during the Civil War reportedly greeted her with the dubious compliment along the lines of "So you're the little lady who started this war!"
@@barrymoore4470 It dies indeed have a claim
The Great Gatsby is the great american novel. My Antonia is one of the most beautiful novels I ever read. I d never cried before reading a book.❤
I love both of those. Certainly Gatsby has probably held the title longest, but I feel like it’s relevance has faded over the last few decades.
Why not ON THE ROAD?
I considered it but thought the ones I chose were all better. There was a time when I probably would have included it.
That's not writing, that's typing.
When asked this question, I have said that The Great Gatsby is the Great American Novel, and Moby Dick is the greatest novel written by an American. I'm sure that you can appreciate the distinction. I'm glad to see Gilead and the USA trilogy on the list. I would include Pynchon's The Crying of Lot 49, which gives us Pynchon's take on American paranoia in a nutshell. I would also add James' The Ambassadors, which gives us numerous great American characters. Each American character is so well developed, even the minor ones. And, Lewis Strether is certainly a great and uniquely American hero.
Gatsby is certainly the most common answer to the question I think and Moby Dick is excellent. But I intentionally leaned away from 19th Century books and I like Huck Finn and Wharton better. I've never read The Crying of Lot 49 and I'm not a real fan of Pynchon. Henry James and I do not get along at all and the three of his books that I have read are set in Europe and deal with European themes as much as, if not more than, American themes (other than Americans abroad).
I believe 19th century writers have a lot to say to 21st century Americans. For example, Hawthorne's short story Young Goodman Brown has an interesting take on religious fundamentalism.
@@alfredpiro8918 I agree, but that doesn’t mean I have to put them on my list.
Lonesome Dove needs to be on this list.
It is on the list.
Sorry my bad.
I think there are three epic topics that deserve a Great American Novel. They are the Civil War/slavery/emancipation, the settling of the West, and the saga of immigration/assimilation. Can you recommend important novels (whether or not they would qualify as potential Great American Novels) on these epic topics? Thank you.
One of the downsides of being a historian is that I sometimes shy away from historical fiction. I think Cold Mountain is a good civil war novel if you don’t mind the romance elements of it. Emancipation is tougher. Faulkner’s The Unvanquished touches on the topic. I have several books on this list that deal with slavery, but let me encourage you to also read the “slave narratives - Twelve Years a Slave, Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl, and Frederick Douglass’ Narrative. Two excellent novels about black communities in the Jim Crow Era that are not on my list are The Color Purple by Alice Walker and Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neal Hurston.
Thank you. I really should read Twelve Years a Slave. I'm familiar with the actual historical story but I've never gotten around to reading the book.@@BookishTexan
You failed to let us see the real qualifications needed for the list which obviously are the discussion of slavery, racism and evil nation building. If the book deals with anything else, it’s not eligible. Now I get it. You didn’t make that clear until the end. AGENDA understood.
Those are pretty big topics in American history and involve issues that have shaped the US. You seem mighty defensive for someone who probably has nothing to be defensive about.
Great list.
Thanks Stephanie. Did you recommend Ninth Street Women to me? If so I am almost finished and have truly enjoyed it.
I agree with those who say that there is no one Great American Novel, as this country is much too diverse for that. I am amazed at the content and prolific nature of our literature. In its short history, our country has produced an impressive number of great writers and poets.
Agree with you completely.
I'll wait for the Great American Movie of it. Nobody reads books anymore, as a look about should readily confirm.
Fair enough. Here are some of my "off the top of my head" thoughts on The Great American Movie in no particular order:
-Modern Times
-The Philadelphia Story
-Rear Window
-The Searchers
-Bonnie and Clyde
-Easy Rider
-The Godfather
- The Thin Red Line
@@BookishTexan I don't meant to nitpick, but I note that you're not applying the same parameters to this off-the-cuff movie list as you did to your considered book list. 'Modern Times' and 'Rear Window' were both directed by non-Americans, while 'The Thin Red Line' is primarily set overseas, though dealing with American characters.
@@barrymoore4470 Yep, you hit me on those two.
if there could be only ONE my vote goes to the great gatsby
I love Gatsby. I used to reread it every year at school during my conference period.
Margaret Mitchell, "Gone With the Wind," the most obvious choice of all for this list.
I don't see how it can not appear on a list of 25 candidates for the Great American novel, even if it isn't your first choice. American author; American setting; immensely important event in American history as background; the presence of race relations, a very important part of American history, as a part of the story; probably the best selling novel in English in the 20th century; it was still being read by teenage girls in the 1960s, a generation after it was first published; it was still appearing on the regular fiction shelves of bookstores, not in the classic or required reading section, at least well into the 1990s, meaning it was still part of the common American culture two generations after it was published.
It misrepresents history and race relations and to my reading is a racist, pro-lynching, Klan apologizing melodrama. Safe to say it is one of the few books that I hate.
Thank you for the reply. @@BookishTexan
Agree with Faulkner inclusion, but the book should be Absalom, Absalom! Brilliant from first word to last.
I can’t argue with you about that. AA is a masterpiece and probably has more to say about American society in general.
I don't think there is "A Great American Novel" if I had to choose a contender I would chose "East of Eden" by John Steinbeck (I know you are not a great fan of his writing).
I am planning on reading East of Eden in December. It is one of the books recommended to me most often.
@@BookishTexan I hope you finally enjoy a Steinbeck.
I will take this in a different direction. 4+ billion people are not carrying smartphones everywhere because of great literature but this technology is SO American.
Daemon & Freedom by Daniel Suarez
It is a single story spanning two physical books. Most people do not take science fiction very seriously and then they think Star Wars qualifies.
Thank you for the recommendation. And point taken regarding the smartphone
Easy to argue about this, but the title that would come up more than any other, if you threw it open to the more than averagely well-read, would be The Great Gatsby.....and the runner-up would be some way behind.
It’s on my list.
Great list. Beloved reigns. It's good to see Underworld on the list and so many others. I think Thornton Wilder's The Eighth Day deserves attention. Also, Chabon's The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay as well as Updike's Rabbit series.
I haven’t read the Wilder book you suggested or Kavelier and Clay. I’ve only read two books by Chabon which is something I need to correct. I thought about Rabbit, Run but there other books I liked more. Than you for sharing your thoughts and suggestions.
Hi. Great video. I'm a non American and was surprised to see I've read 13 of these books. It's interesting how many relate to the history of slavery and continuing racism in the USA, I presume a continuing, significant issue in America. Growing up and reading, I associated America more with stories of the wild west. So for me the Great American Novel is Lonesome Dove. Your criteria are sound but I would have insisted the books should be relatively straightforward for an 'average' reader to read and generally understand. So, no place for The Sound and the Fury on my list!
I definitely think Lonesome Dove is a strong contender and I understand what you mean about The Sound and the Fury. The list is pretty tied to my own reading tastes and interests which probably explains the focus books associated with the history of slavery and racism. To me that is the "original sin" at the heart of America and an issue that still influences our politics and culture.
@@BookishTexan Hi. Yes I notice your interest in the 'original sin'. I wonder if you have read 'Horse' by Geraldine Brooks? If not, I would highly recommend it as it would fit well into your area of interest. It's my book of the year so far.
@@iainc.6 I have not read it. But I am intrigued. Thanks.
Moby-Dick is missing. If it's because it doesn't sufficiently take place in America, I'd ask two questions. First, what do you think the Pequod represents? Second, and quoting Anton Chigurh, "If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?"
That is not the reason I didn't include Moby Dick. I wanted my list to lean away from 19th Century novels and I like Huckleberry Finn and The Age of Innocence much more than Moby Dick so I didn't include it.
Against the Day/Mason and Dixon/Bleeding Edge
I’m not a huge fan of Pynchon, but I did consider Mason&Dixon.
Did I miss the warning about SPOILERS? Sheesh.
There aren’t very many new books on the list, but point taken. I should have issued a warning.
I have mixed emotions here. I've been impressed by your knowledge and understanding of writing and books and your clear and intelligent presentations. In this case, I differ with your definition of "inherently American," which I think of as the freedom and opportunity of America, written into the the Constitution by the founding fathers and preserved by them. This set America apart and allowed it to become the great country it is. Your idea of "inherently American" seems to be slavery, racism, and violence, which is the subject of nearly every book on your list. Of course, slavery is a great evil, though not limited to America or to America's past. As for candidates for great American novel, I consider "Look Homeward Angel" as one, dealing with the longing to experience life and the promise of America.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. The Constitution plus the Bill of Rights does attempt to promote freedom and opportunity, but that same Constitution, written by those same men, institutionalized slavery in the US through the 3/5ths Compromise and the Commerce and Slave Trade compromise. Slavery was literally written into the Constitution. So slavery was as deeply ingrained in the idea of the United States as those higher ideals. And in the aftermath of the end of slavery our unfortunate history of racial discrimination and tension has continued to plague this country. And yes slavery was practiced by other people in other places, but that doesn't make it less foundational to the history of the United States. I have never read Thomas Wolfe, so I couldn't include Look Homeward Angel in my list.
@@BookishTexanYou're right; the country has never completely eliminated the effects of slavery. Are these books helping the problem? In any case, they stand on their own merits.
@@kensilverstone1656 I don’t think the solution to a problem is to remain silent and try to forget it exists, so yes. I think these books help.
Do these books promote solutions to the current problems you see? I think we need to find better solutions than the ones we've tried for the last 50 years. I didn't say anyone should stay silent; I'm a supporter of free speech.
@@kensilverstone1656 It is not the job of the novelist to offer a solutions, yet by drawing attention to the issues that affect them they can raise awareness. You seem to be arguing that novels that describe racism are making things worse.
I just realised that, apart from Cormac Mccarthy, almost all the American novels I've read were from the Fifties and Sixties.
Not to excuse the appalling violence of the British Empire, but George Orwell writing about popular culture in the 1930s, mentions the popularity of imported American titles with extreme levels of violence not seen before in Britain. I think he describes it as a pornography of violence.
I've looked into lynching and I think you may be right in that it's a particularly American thing. However, I know a Spanish village with an elaborate stone picota or lynching post with four arms for multiple bodies, which dates from pre Roman times.
The culture of the Western is uniquely American, but owes it's existence to the type of herding culture that existed in Spain from medieval times.
Moby Dick?! I mean, it happens to be the first novel anyone thinks of when they think of that mythic beast, the GAN. And there is no American novel I've read that is as profound or staggeringly, magisterially ambitious, strange, almost demented, except perhaps Blood Meridian, which is a kind of savage, godless, whale-less homage to it. It signals an intention to not 'play by the rules' when you omit it. No Roth, William Gass, William Gaddis? The stupendous John Barth? John Crowley? Also, for me it would be Song of Solomon, not Beloved. I think it's Toni Morrison's best novel, though I'm still to catch up with her last two novels. Henry James? Surely a far greater writer than many on your list. But that's what these lists are for, to get tongue's wagging in approval or disapproval, so mission accomplished.
I included Blood Meridian or did you mean that my omission of Moby Dick was signaling a refusal to play by the rules? As for Moby Dick. I think it is indeed a great novel for all the reasons you mention, but I chose to lean away from 18th Century books and I like Twain and Wharton better than Melville. I have never been able to make my way through a Phillip Roth novel other than Goodbye Columbus of which I remember very little. I will try another of his books this year I hope. I enjoyed Barth's The Sotweed Factor and it certainly meets the qualifications, but I thought the other books I chose were better.. I think Song of Solomon is brilliant, but I think its themes are less foundationally American than Beloved. I don't like Henry James and the three of his books that I have read were all set in Europe and though they had American characters they issues they explored were not strictly speaking American. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and suggestions.
Yes, I meant Moby Dick. I'd also put Robert Penn Warren on the table. Pynchon and DeLillo as well.
I suppose there are two ways that a novel might qualify as the GAN: any novel written by an American or any novel written about America. I prefer the latter, as I think what might constitute being American is a can of worms and it would be entirely possible for a non-citizen to write the GAN, going by the latter.
Also, I think it's better to not advance candidates to such a speculative list via personal taste, but rather by critical stature - so it's not 'my favourite American novels'. Twain and Wharton are great writers, but Melville would universally be subject to far greater critical esteem - you might prefer them, but then perhaps mount a brief argument for why they're better authors. Does Twain really plumb the depths of the human condition through an American lens, comparable to Melville? Steinbeck is generally held to be a great popular author but not a great writer, such as Austen, Tolstoy or Melville. Someone might prefer James Jones to Toni Morrison but that doesn't make him a better writer, etc
I'm not suggesting that personal opinions don't matter or aren't interesting or stimulating, but great novels are ones that survive historical and cultural shifts and have a formidable net positive critical mass (an ediface of argued for, informed personal opinions) that's difficult to shift. I've met poets that swear Shakespeare is overrated, but good luck with that!
Just my thoughts, such as they are, and thanks for your reply!
@@selwynr In my set of criteria That I used to make my list it being by an American and written by an American we’re paramount alongside touching on a theme running through America’s history. Since those themes are altered by the people of each succeeding generation I think the books on the list must also change. Melville’s MD as far as it is a man v nature story is increasingly less on brand in todays America than it was on 19th Century America. It’s psychological and sociological content still resonate, but are also present in other novels. Plus the novel includes a lot about whales and the whaling industry which may add symbolically to the theme, but are in today’s US anachronistic. It is a great novel, there is no doubt. Yes I think both Wharton and Twain plumb the depths of the human existence, one through humor and the other through subtlety. Finally critical weight is of far less importance to me. A little historical shows that many novels that are long forgotten were praised in their time and afterwards. I suspect that without the Gregory Peck adaptation which made it a part of pop culture often referred to MD would be far less read than it already is. I am thoroughly enjoying our discussion. Thank you.
Sorry, but GRAVITY'S RAINBOW is the Great American Novel.
Don't be disgusting. Not only is it not set in USA, it's certainly not a "great novel", it's a piece of obscene post-modernist shit.
As with the novels of Hemingway, I didn’t think it fit the criteria I established in the video.
Yeah, Catch-22 misses out too -- Americans in Italy.
Why are Americans obsessed with boiling down all literature into one book supposedly capable of representing the entire, diverse history, people and cultures of a country of 300million plus citizens? My response is the wonderful satire of the whole concept by Roth, called, "The Great American Novel", which boils it all down to semi-professional baseball. Perfect.
I think it’s a toxic combination of ego and inferiority. America and Americans seem to feel the need to proclaim our uniqueness. Even if, as with many of the books on my list, it is a unique form of awfulness. Semi-professional baseball is uniquely American 🤓
lol. fails on first criteria.
Did I list a book not written by an American?
Sorry, but I think this list is too heavily weighted toward the 20th century. Without belittling the achievements of any of the writers you have selected America did not emerge from a vacuum in the 20th century. The absence of books by J.F. Cooper. N. Hawthorne, H.B. Stowe , J..W. Cable, Frank Norris, H. Melville, W.D. Howells and last but not least Henry James and early 20th Century writers like Thomas Wolfe, Dreiser , Margret Mitchell and later Louis Auchincloss . or Nabokov or Mailer is simply shocking. It would probably make sense to divide the list into Pre Civil War. Post Civil War to WWI. WWI to 1950 and 1950 to the Present, or some similar arrangemwent. No amount of research by later writers can outweigh the testimony of those who were contemporaries. We mustn't forget them or ignore them because their views are old fashioned or not in line with contemporary literary politcs. America has been blessed with many great writers and they cannot be whittled down to those that suit contemporary taste or critical approval.
I intentionally leaned away from 19th Century novels when making my list on the theory that as American grew/grows our concept of ourselves changed/changes as does our view of events from our history. There are several authors on your list that I considered, but in some cases I liked the 19th Century books I did choose better and in other cases the writers you listed are hardly read any more. This may indeed be a shame, but it is hard for me to argue that a novel by a writer who isn't read anymore and that most American readers today haven't heard of is the Great American Novel. Several of those novelist as well as Wolf, Dreiser, and Auchincloss are writers whose works I have not read and so I could not in good conscience include. Any list like this is bound to reflect the taste and breadth of its creators reading. As for your last point I think it is exactly the changing tastes and critical approval of readers and critics in the present that define the Great American Novel just as it was the reading taste and critical approval of the time in which William Dean Howells and Frank Norris wrote that made their books popular and critically acclaimed in the past. Tastes change and as they do so do our definitions of greatness. Thank you for sharing your list and thoughts on this topic.
My point is that I think you leaned way too far. I'm sure there are people who think you didn't lean far enough. But be that as it may, it is true that we pretty much are what we think we are. Buy if we are unaware or ignore our past not only are we likely to repeat it, but we really may be in the situation of not really knowing who we are or how we got to be who we are and have a very shallow and limited idea of where we might go. (I have more to say but I am going to stop here because I've had 3 power outages midway in my reply today. I'll follow this up with another post.) @@BookishTexan
@@frankmorlock1403 I understand, we just disagree. I’m not sure that forgetting the work of some 19th century novelists is a threat to the future. Look forward to more of your thoughts.
CONTINUATION of MY REPLY . I don't so much disagree with what you are saying as the application of your ideas to the literature of the past., in this case the 19th century. To build a house properly you need a solid foundation. And in judging literature and our culture generally, to make a good judgment, you really have to know the past. We ignore it at our cost. You say you have difficulty in arguing that a book no longer much read is still important. But that is exactly the argument you have to make, otherwise current fashion is the Ruler and measure of all things. If you lean too far in favor of current fashion you will lose your landmarks. People don't like to read Shakespeare because he is difficult. I agree he is often difficult, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't read him, and laud him as the peerless dramtic poet that he is. G. Bernard Shaw used to say there are "summits of art" that are never surpassed and never will be surpassed. Such summits occurred in the 19th Century and like Mt. Everest remain in place to be climbed by succeeding generations. Let me give an example. Melville ruined his career as a writer by writing Moby Dick in 1851. No one liked it and he lost his audience. It wasn't until after World War I, that critics succeeded in reestablishing his repuitation. (I'm stopping here againfor fear of another power outage.). Yes, you must argue this little read book was and is great.
@@frankmorlock1403 Current fashion and critical reputation are the measure of something like Great American Novel just as they were the measure of what was published and read in the 19th Century. I’m sure you could create an excellent list of GAN candidates from the 1the century and I think that would be great. For me two was enough, in part because the novels of the 19th century largely told the story of only one group of Americans.
The list is fine but the analysis is pretty below average IMO. My man here is really just parroting modern-day literary criticism (i.e., theory). For example, he states-virtually quoting Harold Bloom-that Blood Meridian is about America’s history and celebration of violence, which-no disrespect to Bloom-is extremely surface-level criticism. Showing how he’s captured by ideology, he dogmatically states that the characters in Blood Meridian “go around killing minorities.”
Uhhhh, the Glanton Gang was killing Mexicans and Apaches in Mexico and the border regions at a time when there were virtually no white people in those areas.
My responses by paragraph;
1. Captured by ideology. That must be why my list includes works by Hemingway and Faulkner and Lonesome Dove which in many ways celebrates the myths of the American West and glorifies the Texas Rangers whose primary purpose was to kill Indians to pave the way for settlement. I think you are blinded by your ideology.
2. Umm… the Glanton Gang were racists killers and scalp hunters who went to Northern Mexico to kill for money.
But please do make your own video with your own list so you can show me your deep analytical skills.
@@BookishTexan Of course the Glanton Gang were racist killers. That wasn’t my objection. My issue is that you stated-probably instinctively-that they killed “minorities.” The Mexicans and Apaches were decidedly NOT minorities in those areas when and where the book takes place.
By invoking “minorities” you reflexively made the book about perceived power disparities drawn along racial or ethnic lines, which is an ideological analysis and absolutely silly. I mean, do you not remember the Legion of Horribles incident in BM?
@@nathancooley7685 Your entire objection is that I inaccurately used the word minorities to describe the Mexican and indigenous population of Northern Mexico. So if I had called them people of color you would have had no problem with what I said about one of the twenty-five books I briefly discussed in this video. Got it.
I look forward to your video covering twenty-five books which I am sure will be perfect in every way. Please let me know when you post it .
@@BookishTexan Look man, I probably came across too strong. The video was good. I mean, I watched it after all. I guess if I’m being honest, I’m just frustrated-also like Harold Bloom-with the current state of academic literary criticism and its trajectory. I guess i “instinctively” categorized your video as part and parcel with the level of criticism coming from the academy and with the ideology that has completely overtaking every publishing house.
Again, maybe I was too strong in my OP. Keep making video and doing your thing. All the best, truly 🙏🏻
I don't understand the love for The Trees. It covers an important topic, but it falls apart in the last quarter. It gets increasingly ridiculous as it goes on, and the humor falls flat. The reviews I read talked about a moving and poignant novel, but I didn't see that at all. I'm left wing, but the Hannity and Trump jokes were lame. It's nowhere near the level of Toni Morrison or Larry Mcmurtry. I don't think it'll age well.
Obviously I don’t agree with your assessment, but thanks for watching and commenting.
Ragtime
@@EdwinPutman-io1dl Nice choice. I haven’t read it, but I saw the movie. I’ve only read one book by Doctorow
Lonesome Dove is the only correct answer.
It is certainly on the list,