I can all but promise that part of the software they want people to use will eventually be a generative AI model generator, and they want the raw files to teach this AI on. I am 99% sure that is the end goal.
I think you give them too much credit there, giving them the benefit of the doubt they’ve got the resources or ability to make ai software. They’re purely and simply attempting to lock in the rights to the models that stream on the platform. At least niji or someone pay for your model to have some sort of claim to the ip. This cowboy outfit low key want indies to front the model, provide the content but from the sounds of it want to be like “well all the stuff you produced was through OUR software and the model files are in our proprietary .SCAM format, which we take a cut of any profits” I’m guessing. Plus it’s a trust me bro on the reach of said platform.
This! Ever since I learned that Captcha companies associated with AI companies to train their AI models with the users' input (when solving the captcha), I believe what you're saying is highly possible. In this new age of AI, human data is the new gold!
Nah, this is Sony. This is 100% going to be "breached" and whoever started and heads this branch will be paid by the breachers who start selling all these models. Then the execs will close the project and everyone will forget about it.
@@RubyRoks that might be the real reason. still sounds more realistic that they would use other Vtuber models for nefarious shit. If they want to train AI they should invest into it by spending money to get creators to make models used for the AI training. Instead of trying to trick Vtubers to give up theirs. ANILIVE a Sony Company... yeah uploading your models and private info to one of the least secure companies in the world is a great idea... A Vtuber only space makes no sense, because it doesn't. It only makes sense from a corporate view that wants control. Eventually they'll then expand their "services" to drain you of all your resources and freedoms. While using vtuber models that are popular to do with as they see in order to manipulate the crowd into thinking it was the Vtuber themselves. Especially combined with AI Voice and the Vtuber Model. It is indeed difficult to see who is in the space as a tourist, exploiter or as an actual fan and enjoyer. This doesn't just apply to Vtubing but also gaming, movies, tv et large. Just see the tourist/exploiters that are ruining Disney (marvel/star wars/comic books industry)...the tons of DEI/ESG/Bridge garbage all across the gaming space. It is sickening and dystopian to see everywhere its happening when none actual fans/enjoyers get involved with any space. Gatekeeping is massively important if you want to maintain quality. Hopefully Vtubing won't make the same mistakes the other industries are making.
It's actually a neat concept _IF_ it didn't have this glaring security concern. It allows for vtuber model streaming using just a mobile device by not actually streaming video feeds. When you've uploaded your model files, and when you start streaming, any viewers that join in get the model files streamed to their own devices. On the vtuber's end, the only data that they are sending to their viewers (through the AniLive server) is raw facial capture/animation data and audio *(no camera footage is sent).* This requires much less data and processing power than an encoded video. The viewers' phones take this animation data and audio and basically "reconstruct" the vtuber model's movements locally on each of their own devices. This is somewhat similar to how online games replicate everyone's actions to each other. So, uploading your model files to AniLive and/or your viewers' phones is a requirement for the whole thing to work. I never said I'm ready to say that it's a _good_ idea, though. They also need to essentially claim a form of ownership over any models submitted to make this whole thing legal to do in the first place (which is why a lot of art contests say a similar thing about submissions, because they can't even show off any submissions if rights are never handed over.)
@@pezzo7089 Great. So you send your REAL FACE to that side then? That is self doxxing and then they could come with: "Give me 10k$ or I show your real face. Oh you wonder how we got it? You send it to us and according to our TOS that's fine".
Having a person like Mouse in her top position openly saying things like this is an incredible treasure for the content creator world. One of the best ever.
@@baka_ja_nai Oh, it's Sony... then it's a NO GO on the fly. You remember what they did to their own VTubers, Prism? They fired them! You remember, what they do to games? When it's Sony, don't help them!
@@acmenipponair At least they're still streaming with their old models. But buying a vtuber agency only to shut it down so quickly was a pretty bad move
Upload your model to us. While you're at it, please enter the 16 digit credit card number, date of expiry and CVV2. Please sign at your indicated area. While you're at it, photograph your left index finger up close and upload it to the attachments area. We will get back to you in 180 days. Have a nice day.
@@demonic_myst4503you obviously haven't done a solid research. Half of what Sony does the last couple of years (especially the last 4 months) is scam. That's why everyone hate them except the brainwashed fanboys that act like cucks
From what I can tell, the whole "upload your model" thing is so that they can do the processing for you on their own servers, so you don't need a PC to do it. Sot of like a livestreaming game service for Vtubing So not only do they want all your model data, they'll have access to your actual live face cam feed as well
Except that... your phone doesn't send face cam data; just facial capture _animation_ data and audio. Positions, keyframes, etc. The Iphone does its facial tracking using an infrared camera, so at best they could maybe get a monochrome face shape but nothing beyond that. We gotta make sure that we know what we're really supposed to be upset about or suspicious of.
@pezzo7089 which can be used to compare to a real face found with a similar camera? Right? So not a picture of a face that we can look at, but still a face that can be tracked and compared?
@@dinosaurusrex1482 Well, it's still in it's death throws, it thinks it's a music site now lol. Kinda like Facebook still exists but it's just bots and few old people and promotional content now.
From their TOS: "The Users grant to us a worldwide, royalty-free, sublicensable, and irrevocable license to use the User Content in any way to the extent necessary to operate and provide the App. The term of such license is the same as the duration of the licensed rights. Our use of User Content under this Article 8.2 does not constitute a transfer of any rights in such User Content to us, but the User may not exercise their moral rights or any other personal rights in such User Content against us or third parties that we grant a sublicense to use the User Content, except with respect to avatar files." Or in normal english: They want to use your model for anything, because in the end even marketing or similar stuff they could reason with "necessary to operate and provide the app". Then they write, you are not allow to critizise their Website or THIRD PARTIES that they SUBLICENSE your user content? Wait what? In 7 they claim that all the rights of the content belongs to the uploader but in 8.2 they say they will SUBLICENSE your content - which is illegal, because they are not the owner of the stuff. Then they want to offer you special items that you can unlock using their ingame currencies - which you only can earn when you are not part of an agency, so any indie in Mystic or VShojo oder Idol is not allowed too. And in the end it's just some crap, that you get for free with Twitch.
OH and any mature vtuber is already out: Forbidden: "1. Posting photographs or the like of nudity with a high degree of exposure including underwear shots, close-up shots of the chest, buttocks, and the like, and shots that expose the genitals, and other pictures, images (videos), illustrations, and paintings that are determined to be obscene or posting words that represent sexual intercourse or genitals, or other obscene expressions, regardless of whether or not there is pixelization, blurring, or artistic qualities" no underwear shots, no close ups on the chest or hips etc... Typical Sony SJW crap therefore.
The biggest concern with this would be that if they DO ACTUALLY need your model because they want to use their native software, that would imply that you may need to stream a cam to them, where they would then use that like most locally installed software. So in that case, you'd be STREAMING A CAM TO THEM THAT THEY WOULD STREAM TO thier platform and not just be streaming your model to whatever platform yourself. I'm sure there are other justifications possible for them needing the model, but none of them would be treating the streamer's rights as a primary concern, since other platforms work without this insane requirement.
Even if they don't now, I'm reminded of the lies of Zuckerberg and Facebook and how they kept taking more and more away with each update. Also this happens all of the time with smaller apps. It starts out free and then eventually the person or people behind it try to monetize it or put malware on your computer, and it's always after several updates. So they build up trust and then try to pull the rug out from under you.
They are building solutions for problems they created. There is no reason they cant just accept a normal OBS upstream feed. Itts 100% to lock you into their own software.
When looking into video capture I was pleasantly surprised how open source standard the software environment is. Even HDMI capture sticks. If they don't give out ffmpeg data I just get a refund for the hardware. Because then it's clear they are intentionally obfuscating the features.
Wait. So, assuming they are acting good faith (fun fact: they aren't) they decided to create a site that needs around 10X the server resources compared to the industry standard... and they will "freely" hold all these files for nothing?
Nothing in her take should be seen as controversial, the same goes for every website you were to sign into. To ask yourself where the data you submit to a website could end up in in case of an attack, or if the service staff was to go rogue, or whatever other scenario, should be a question EVERYONE should ask themselves. Whether it is personal data, or assets like a Vtuber model. This is just part of a virtual hygiene we all have to adopt. Not to the point of paranoia of course, but asking yourself the many things someone can do with raw files, whether it is the user, owner, or a third-party entity who made its way in the system, should establish a good risk grid to think about already.
If they strictly need a new format, they should release their new format and conversion software as open source, then let users download and use their vtubing software. But uploading your model as-is to the cloud, with no copy protection or copyright transparency? Sketchy AF.
My guess for what they will do: Step 1. Create Vtuber only site. Step 2. Get Models of all the different Vtuber. Step 3. Use them for AI learning. Step 4. Sell a AI that creates Vtuber models. Do not upload your nice Vtuber model. Instead, make a cheap and ugly version of yourself and try out the streaming with that. Teach that AI the worst you can do.
Pretty sure there's an option to create a "Glaze", just as you already got for other digital art stuff. I'm rather pro-AI, but I'm a huge fan of securing your art/data property against the learning algorithms, too.
It seems some vTubers see other vTubers as rivals to be fought and defeated and to knock down. I get the impressions, maybe because of her medical condition) Ironmouse (and the other vShojo streamers) see other vTubers as potential friends, people to play with, have fun with, experience new things with. Other vTubers are an expansion of horizons for those prepared to work at it and learn the rope rather than treat it as a quick money grab. It's symbiotic vs parasitic approach, one benefits both parties, the other eventually kills one of the parties.
I think people forget VTubers are the same as any other streamer or content creator. Except VTubing is significantly more niche. I expect MOST if not ALL vtuber only platforms to fail because VTubing isn’t a large enough niche on a fan base level to succeed in that way. Unless one managed to get hololive to become exclusive it just isn’t happening.
As someone's stated earlier, Its owned by Sony. I promise you if you read their TOS theyll also say they cam do whatever they want with your model after you upload it and it wouldnt shock me if they say in their TOS that they now own the model once its uploaded.
It's not owned by Sony. People are confusing AniLive with Aniplex. AniLive is a streaming platform for VTubers owned by the Singaporean company AnotherBall, and Aniplex is a comprehensive entertainment company specializing in anime and related media, owned by the Japanese company Sony. They're not related.
@@mdem5059 yeah, I'm not seeing anything linking them to Sony. They seem to be owned by a company named AnotherBall Pte. Ltd. and is based in Singapore. That doesn't make me trust them anymore though.
Wow finally these VTubers have a website that they can stream on. Glad the Ironmouse gave us the news during her stream on popular steaming website *Twitch.* You might have seen some clips of your favorite Vtubers that were taken from the aforementioned site and posted to *CZcams.* But yeah thank God they _finally_ have a place to stream. That's some *Kick* ass news.
They also want you to use their software on their plattform ... So they get your model and possibly a camera feed of your IRL face? Who has the ownership of the data you upload? How good do they safeguard their userdata? so many possible points of failure ... and even if they promise not to use your stuff for any other purpose, who can tell, that they won't ever change their TOS later in that regard ... nah man ... there's a lot of groundless, one-sided trust involved. Those are some major red flags.
That's... not how modern vtuber software works. You're not sending a live camera feed to AniLive's servers. Your phone takes your camera feed, creates animation data out of that, and then sends that _animation data_ to the AniLive servers so that your vtuber model can be animated on viewer phones.
@@pezzo7089 that's not what i meant. I know how >regular< vtuber software works. But how do we know, that they only transmit the "vtuber video stream" and nothing else, like pictures from the real camera? I also did not say that it had to be a live feed, could be still pictures, short clips, etc.. The difference here is, that you just generate an image in regular vtuber software, but still use something like OBS to stream to any platform you want. If i understand this correctly, this app will directly stream exclusively to their platform and you don't know how the data is transmitted and what is transmitted, contrary to OBS.
I don't get why the app is iphone exclusive. I guess it's about the motion tracking, but that means the vtuber use the same app as the viewers? Then i guess it makes sense to upload your model to the app, not like usual obs+vtube studio+ your streaming platform, it's all in one app. It's still so weird, why would they limit the viewers
@@mdem5059I think people are misreading a line on the site about how one of the founders was involved with Prism Project until it was acquired by Sony. They think it means Anilive is owned by them, but that's not right.
The whole thing sounds sketchy as all holy hell. Why don't they just make their "in-house software" available to people, instead of this sketchy shit. Sounds like they want to build a database of Vtuber models, so they can use it for AI, to build their own models with basically stolen assets and property, or even use the models to advertise the site.
I going to try to do some digging into their software but im pretty sure they're doing alot of data harvesting with it. Just need to figure out what they're collecting.
Sus. I'm with the Mouse on this. From a business perspective, I see it as a ploy to "commandeer" the rigging of the models uploaded and sell it in tiers in a subscription model. Don't fall for it and let it die. They're trying to bypass the artists' hard labor and the cost of developing rigged models by getting people to upload their stuff.
Sounds like they wanna have a way of taking a fully made model to edit and resell to different users who want to stream as a Vtuber, but don't have their own model yet. So they can say they want "Something like ironmouse's model but with..." and then they ask for some changes.
Here, the final reason why you SHOULDN'T use this app: "The App and other matters regarding these Terms shall be governed by the laws of Singapore." Have fun being on the wimps of a dictatorship
If Twitch and CZcams are the equivalent of an employer saying "We need a note of your national insurance/social security/driving licence/whatever number for HR and then we can hire you," then this app is like an employer going, "We need you to give us all your original documents to keep. Also, change your address to our office so that we have control if anything changes."
Oof, as if the Nexas CEO incident wasn't bad enough, now even Ironmouse speaks up and question this new app. I want to try this app out of curiosity as a viewer but they still haven't gotten back to my request 3 weeks ago, rip Android users.
“upload your model raw file” would bring a scenario like this: oh you don’t want to stream anymore on the site. and they can be: cool, we will have some ai take control of your avatar and continue on monetising
At this time & price point (ca. $10k + for a decent Vtuber model and rigging) it's easier (+ way more secure and waaay cheaper) just to learn Live2d etc. + buy the top tier computer equipment and do everything yourself.
This is my shot!, to MS paint i go, to make my future! and with this TOTALLY not a scam app is gonna carry me like my CoD teammates when i fall asleep gaming! What file ext do i need to save this MSP atrocity im gonna make as? lol
Yea like how much do most of these v-tubers spend to have a model custom rigged for them? I've heard at least in the thousands, not sure if I heard right. But that's something you paid for, it's (hopefully if you negotiated it right with the modeler) your property and Intellectual property. That's throwing all that money away.
Sounds very shady, to say the least. On top of it being Sony, yeah, nope. Unless you have throwaway models of which then not sure if it would still be worth it to try out with. Sounds like once you sign up, they'll have free reign to your models for free, plus easy access for others to also get your models. Among other things.
Safe space for what, ooo I am too scared to see a human face while watching vtubers. On the serious note Asking for Raw files while the AI boom is very Sus
Like Nexas & VReverie, Singapore is not customer or human-friendly. Their businesses are all exploitative, and coming from a citizen here, I highly recommend people not to interact with Singaporeans on any business dealings. If you need to, do your due diligence. Any company from this island republic must be scrutinized.
These scams are pulled in every digital industry. They did it with comics before. Oh, don't put your work on the largest platform, put it on ours and then we'll charge you for the privilege and own all your work.
I don't get why dogpiles on kick, it's a little hypocritical when Twitch is just as bad, at least Kick is self-aware , that they are an adult-rated site, and even warns ppl getting into streams and ppl signing up on the site that they have adult-themed content. Meanwhile, you have Twitch that is having existential crisis of whether they should be an adult-rated site or a family-friendly site. Obviously, twitch wants the bag, so that they can be in every US television, so they want to be family-friendly, but they have actual streamers that do NSFW on the site, with ppl even doing the "the-birds-and-the-bees", is that really the kind of thing to show to children?
it'sa"sus"attempt at keeping content created only available to/from the platform. next step is monetizing&paywalling. microtransactions gaming style. G,crabby,old veteran
I speculate, just speculating: So they steal your banking info, and copy your model. Then they sell your model to a virtual brothel where people are paid three cents an hour to say and do whatever. Eventually you become very famous...
Ironmouse on Anilive: Please upload your model so we can convert it and possible have a fake stream. DigitrevX claims to own copyright to ProjektMelody's model: 𝕀 𝕠𝕨𝕟 𝕪𝕠𝕦!
It is kinda sketchy. Though if it's to keep things sfw then I can understand. Also it may sound bad, but I am kinda happy that Ironmouse won't be using it just to create a Monopoly bend in what could be a flat sheet of paper. Although it does concern me that she suddenly argued against the isolation thing when she would have had to have interest in the site in the first place and not only learn about the shady request but also the fact that its VTuber focused, meaning she at one point was fine with isolating for her interests until given a reason not to like it.
I can all but promise that part of the software they want people to use will eventually be a generative AI model generator, and they want the raw files to teach this AI on. I am 99% sure that is the end goal.
I think you give them too much credit there, giving them the benefit of the doubt they’ve got the resources or ability to make ai software. They’re purely and simply attempting to lock in the rights to the models that stream on the platform. At least niji or someone pay for your model to have some sort of claim to the ip. This cowboy outfit low key want indies to front the model, provide the content but from the sounds of it want to be like “well all the stuff you produced was through OUR software and the model files are in our proprietary .SCAM format, which we take a cut of any profits” I’m guessing. Plus it’s a trust me bro on the reach of said platform.
This! Ever since I learned that Captcha companies associated with AI companies to train their AI models with the users' input (when solving the captcha), I believe what you're saying is highly possible. In this new age of AI, human data is the new gold!
Nah, this is Sony. This is 100% going to be "breached" and whoever started and heads this branch will be paid by the breachers who start selling all these models. Then the execs will close the project and everyone will forget about it.
@@neutralentr0py they don't need to develop their own AI they could just buy one and train it on people's models
@@neutralentr0py Here's the thing, it can be both.
That whole "upload your model" thing sounds sketchy.
Wouldn't surprise me if they were using model uploads to train AI to make new models
@@RubyRoks i believe it. safe bet they are training AI.
@@RubyRoks that might be the real reason. still sounds more realistic that they would use other Vtuber models for nefarious shit.
If they want to train AI they should invest into it by spending money to get creators to make models used for the AI training. Instead of trying to trick Vtubers to give up theirs.
ANILIVE a Sony Company... yeah uploading your models and private info to one of the least secure companies in the world is a great idea...
A Vtuber only space makes no sense, because it doesn't. It only makes sense from a corporate view that wants control. Eventually they'll then expand their "services" to drain you of all your resources and freedoms. While using vtuber models that are popular to do with as they see in order to manipulate the crowd into thinking it was the Vtuber themselves. Especially combined with AI Voice and the Vtuber Model.
It is indeed difficult to see who is in the space as a tourist, exploiter or as an actual fan and enjoyer. This doesn't just apply to Vtubing but also gaming, movies, tv et large. Just see the tourist/exploiters that are ruining Disney (marvel/star wars/comic books industry)...the tons of DEI/ESG/Bridge garbage all across the gaming space. It is sickening and dystopian to see everywhere its happening when none actual fans/enjoyers get involved with any space. Gatekeeping is massively important if you want to maintain quality. Hopefully Vtubing won't make the same mistakes the other industries are making.
It's actually a neat concept _IF_ it didn't have this glaring security concern. It allows for vtuber model streaming using just a mobile device by not actually streaming video feeds.
When you've uploaded your model files, and when you start streaming, any viewers that join in get the model files streamed to their own devices.
On the vtuber's end, the only data that they are sending to their viewers (through the AniLive server) is raw facial capture/animation data and audio *(no camera footage is sent).* This requires much less data and processing power than an encoded video.
The viewers' phones take this animation data and audio and basically "reconstruct" the vtuber model's movements locally on each of their own devices. This is somewhat similar to how online games replicate everyone's actions to each other.
So, uploading your model files to AniLive and/or your viewers' phones is a requirement for the whole thing to work. I never said I'm ready to say that it's a _good_ idea, though.
They also need to essentially claim a form of ownership over any models submitted to make this whole thing legal to do in the first place (which is why a lot of art contests say a similar thing about submissions, because they can't even show off any submissions if rights are never handed over.)
@@pezzo7089 Great. So you send your REAL FACE to that side then? That is self doxxing and then they could come with: "Give me 10k$ or I show your real face. Oh you wonder how we got it? You send it to us and according to our TOS that's fine".
Having a person like Mouse in her top position openly saying things like this is an incredible treasure for the content creator world. One of the best ever.
Considering the large investment of a vtuber model. Also the property ownership between artist and streamer. This would be bad in a data breach.
And since this is Sony it's guaranteed to be breached.
@@baka_ja_nai Oh, it's Sony... then it's a NO GO on the fly. You remember what they did to their own VTubers, Prism? They fired them! You remember, what they do to games? When it's Sony, don't help them!
@@acmenipponair At least they're still streaming with their old models. But buying a vtuber agency only to shut it down so quickly was a pretty bad move
@@acmenipponairoh I didn’t realize this is sony. Note that that ceo of this is the same guy that ran prism before selling it to sony
Upload your model to us.
While you're at it, please enter the 16 digit credit card number, date of expiry and CVV2.
Please sign at your indicated area.
While you're at it, photograph your left index finger up close and upload it to the attachments area.
We will get back to you in 180 days.
Have a nice day.
Its a sony owner compiny so it not a scam but they will claim ownership or somrhonh knowing sony
@@demonic_myst4503you obviously haven't done a solid research.
Half of what Sony does the last couple of years (especially the last 4 months) is scam.
That's why everyone hate them except the brainwashed fanboys that act like cucks
They are absolutely data mining for AI
First they want your model. Then they’ll need you to link your social media account to the PSN.
😂 Oof.
From what I can tell, the whole "upload your model" thing is so that they can do the processing for you on their own servers, so you don't need a PC to do it. Sot of like a livestreaming game service for Vtubing
So not only do they want all your model data, they'll have access to your actual live face cam feed as well
Except that... your phone doesn't send face cam data; just facial capture _animation_ data and audio. Positions, keyframes, etc. The Iphone does its facial tracking using an infrared camera, so at best they could maybe get a monochrome face shape but nothing beyond that. We gotta make sure that we know what we're really supposed to be upset about or suspicious of.
That's not gonna go well at all
@pezzo7089 which can be used to compare to a real face found with a similar camera? Right? So not a picture of a face that we can look at, but still a face that can be tracked and compared?
Reminds me of when MySpace was all "btw, we own all the music you upload here now"
God you're making me feel old...
Oh, is THAT why MySpace died?
@@dinosaurusrex1482 that and because Facebook came along
@@dinosaurusrex1482 Well, it's still in it's death throws, it thinks it's a music site now lol. Kinda like Facebook still exists but it's just bots and few old people and promotional content now.
@@dinosaurusrex1482MySpace still exists lmao it just doesn't exist the way it was before
Even IronMouse gets that "The cloud" is somebody else's computer. No bueno.
From their TOS:
"The Users grant to us a worldwide, royalty-free, sublicensable, and irrevocable license to use the User Content in any way to the extent necessary to operate and provide the App. The term of such license is the same as the duration of the licensed rights. Our use of User Content under this Article 8.2 does not constitute a transfer of any rights in such User Content to us, but the User may not exercise their moral rights or any other personal rights in such User Content against us or third parties that we grant a sublicense to use the User Content, except with respect to avatar files."
Or in normal english: They want to use your model for anything, because in the end even marketing or similar stuff they could reason with "necessary to operate and provide the app". Then they write, you are not allow to critizise their Website or THIRD PARTIES that they SUBLICENSE your user content? Wait what? In 7 they claim that all the rights of the content belongs to the uploader but in 8.2 they say they will SUBLICENSE your content - which is illegal, because they are not the owner of the stuff.
Then they want to offer you special items that you can unlock using their ingame currencies - which you only can earn when you are not part of an agency, so any indie in Mystic or VShojo oder Idol is not allowed too. And in the end it's just some crap, that you get for free with Twitch.
OH and any mature vtuber is already out:
Forbidden: "1. Posting photographs or the like of nudity with a high degree of exposure including underwear shots, close-up shots of the chest, buttocks, and the like, and shots that expose the genitals, and other pictures, images (videos), illustrations, and paintings that are determined to be obscene or posting words that represent sexual intercourse or genitals, or other obscene expressions, regardless of whether or not there is pixelization, blurring, or artistic qualities"
no underwear shots, no close ups on the chest or hips etc... Typical Sony SJW crap therefore.
Oh and "commercial acts" like promoting merch etc. are also forbidden... so how could the vtuber then finance themselves...
The biggest concern with this would be that if they DO ACTUALLY need your model because they want to use their native software, that would imply that you may need to stream a cam to them, where they would then use that like most locally installed software.
So in that case, you'd be STREAMING A CAM TO THEM THAT THEY WOULD STREAM TO thier platform and not just be streaming your model to whatever platform yourself. I'm sure there are other justifications possible for them needing the model, but none of them would be treating the streamer's rights as a primary concern, since other platforms work without this insane requirement.
They want RAW files. Not the running file. That's the point which is scary. Why the hell they would need a raw editable file?
Ironmouse is the wise elder of the vtuber community and she is the G.O.A.T
As the VTuber with (most likely) the most models, i would definitely heed her warning.
They probably have a secret 'gotcha i deceptively got you to sign away your rights to your IP'
Even if they don't now, I'm reminded of the lies of Zuckerberg and Facebook and how they kept taking more and more away with each update.
Also this happens all of the time with smaller apps. It starts out free and then eventually the person or people behind it try to monetize it or put malware on your computer, and it's always after several updates. So they build up trust and then try to pull the rug out from under you.
Aint that illegal without compansation
It's Sony. You expect anything less?
@@ZodokiEspardaNope unfortunately
@@ZodokiEspardaThat doesn’t stop a lot of people from trying crap.
They are building solutions for problems they created. There is no reason they cant just accept a normal OBS upstream feed. Itts 100% to lock you into their own software.
When looking into video capture I was pleasantly surprised how open source standard the software environment is.
Even HDMI capture sticks. If they don't give out ffmpeg data I just get a refund for the hardware. Because then it's clear they are intentionally obfuscating the features.
Even if they have no bad intentions, that's just asking to have it all leaked in a hack.
3:53 "their biz-in-ness method" that's too damn cute
Wait. So, assuming they are acting good faith (fun fact: they aren't) they decided to create a site that needs around 10X the server resources compared to the industry standard... and they will "freely" hold all these files for nothing?
Aren't they just the kindest people? /s
Nothing in her take should be seen as controversial, the same goes for every website you were to sign into.
To ask yourself where the data you submit to a website could end up in in case of an attack, or if the service staff was to go rogue, or whatever other scenario, should be a question EVERYONE should ask themselves. Whether it is personal data, or assets like a Vtuber model. This is just part of a virtual hygiene we all have to adopt. Not to the point of paranoia of course, but asking yourself the many things someone can do with raw files, whether it is the user, owner, or a third-party entity who made its way in the system, should establish a good risk grid to think about already.
If they strictly need a new format, they should release their new format and conversion software as open source, then let users download and use their vtubing software.
But uploading your model as-is to the cloud, with no copy protection or copyright transparency? Sketchy AF.
My guess for what they will do:
Step 1. Create Vtuber only site.
Step 2. Get Models of all the different Vtuber.
Step 3. Use them for AI learning.
Step 4. Sell a AI that creates Vtuber models.
Do not upload your nice Vtuber model.
Instead, make a cheap and ugly version of yourself and try out the streaming with that.
Teach that AI the worst you can do.
Pretty sure there's an option to create a "Glaze", just as you already got for other digital art stuff. I'm rather pro-AI, but I'm a huge fan of securing your art/data property against the learning algorithms, too.
Sounds like they want to steal peoples models or be able to modify it if they want. Oh your model is very beautiful...censored
vtubing only platform sounds like a very good way to create a stagnant culture
Best to read the TOS, who knows what they will do or take from your models
It seems some vTubers see other vTubers as rivals to be fought and defeated and to knock down. I get the impressions, maybe because of her medical condition) Ironmouse (and the other vShojo streamers) see other vTubers as potential friends, people to play with, have fun with, experience new things with. Other vTubers are an expansion of horizons for those prepared to work at it and learn the rope rather than treat it as a quick money grab. It's symbiotic vs parasitic approach, one benefits both parties, the other eventually kills one of the parties.
Mouse knows a trap when she sees one.
I think people forget VTubers are the same as any other streamer or content creator. Except VTubing is significantly more niche. I expect MOST if not ALL vtuber only platforms to fail because VTubing isn’t a large enough niche on a fan base level to succeed in that way. Unless one managed to get hololive to become exclusive it just isn’t happening.
when mouse is right she's right
As someone's stated earlier, Its owned by Sony. I promise you if you read their TOS theyll also say they cam do whatever they want with your model after you upload it and it wouldnt shock me if they say in their TOS that they now own the model once its uploaded.
And they're notorious for getting hacked too lol.
No it's not.
I've LOVE for you to show me how Sony is linked with AniLive company.
It's not owned by Sony. People are confusing AniLive with Aniplex. AniLive is a streaming platform for VTubers owned by the Singaporean company AnotherBall, and Aniplex is a comprehensive entertainment company specializing in anime and related media, owned by the Japanese company Sony.
They're not related.
@@mdem5059 yeah, I'm not seeing anything linking them to Sony. They seem to be owned by a company named AnotherBall Pte. Ltd. and is based in Singapore. That doesn't make me trust them anymore though.
So for some reason my earlier reply isn’t showing up, but it is a company from Singapore. I can't find any connection to S.ony.
Wow finally these VTubers have a website that they can stream on. Glad the Ironmouse gave us the news during her stream on popular steaming website *Twitch.* You might have seen some clips of your favorite Vtubers that were taken from the aforementioned site and posted to *CZcams.* But yeah thank God they _finally_ have a place to stream. That's some *Kick* ass news.
"In-house software" more like bitcoin miner
Well said, I say! Well said!
They also want you to use their software on their plattform ...
So they get your model and possibly a camera feed of your IRL face?
Who has the ownership of the data you upload?
How good do they safeguard their userdata?
so many possible points of failure ...
and even if they promise not to use your stuff for any other purpose, who can tell, that they won't ever change their TOS later in that regard ...
nah man ... there's a lot of groundless, one-sided trust involved. Those are some major red flags.
That's... not how modern vtuber software works. You're not sending a live camera feed to AniLive's servers. Your phone takes your camera feed, creates animation data out of that, and then sends that _animation data_ to the AniLive servers so that your vtuber model can be animated on viewer phones.
@@pezzo7089 that's not what i meant.
I know how >regular< vtuber software works. But how do we know, that they only transmit the "vtuber video stream" and nothing else, like pictures from the real camera? I also did not say that it had to be a live feed, could be still pictures, short clips, etc.. The difference here is, that you just generate an image in regular vtuber software, but still use something like OBS to stream to any platform you want. If i understand this correctly, this app will directly stream exclusively to their platform and you don't know how the data is transmitted and what is transmitted, contrary to OBS.
I don't get why the app is iphone exclusive. I guess it's about the motion tracking, but that means the vtuber use the same app as the viewers? Then i guess it makes sense to upload your model to the app, not like usual obs+vtube studio+ your streaming platform, it's all in one app.
It's still so weird, why would they limit the viewers
Ironmouse once again showing why so many people love her.
ANILIVE is a Sony company. Figures.
Probably scraping models for AI use.
*Soyny
But it's not.. the fuck you on about?
You're thinking of Aniplex. AniLive is owned by the Singaporean company AnotherBall.
@@mdem5059I think people are misreading a line on the site about how one of the founders was involved with Prism Project until it was acquired by Sony. They think it means Anilive is owned by them, but that's not right.
The whole thing sounds sketchy as all holy hell.
Why don't they just make their "in-house software" available to people, instead of this sketchy shit.
Sounds like they want to build a database of Vtuber models, so they can use it for AI, to build their own models with basically stolen assets and property, or even use the models to advertise the site.
Lol, this is some corpo talent agency's "bright" idea. 110%. If you do wanna do this. make a new dedicated and separate model/ip for this.
I going to try to do some digging into their software but im pretty sure they're doing alot of data harvesting with it.
Just need to figure out what they're collecting.
You should say what you find I’d be interested 👀
I wonder if the TOS says once you upload your model we own it.
Sus. I'm with the Mouse on this. From a business perspective, I see it as a ploy to "commandeer" the rigging of the models uploaded and sell it in tiers in a subscription model. Don't fall for it and let it die.
They're trying to bypass the artists' hard labor and the cost of developing rigged models by getting people to upload their stuff.
i think that's to save bandwidth, since there's no video processing i guess i doesn't cost as much to function and it's also why it's vtuber only
I wouldn't be surpised if a Vtuber loaded their model to the site and in a week it shows up in the latest Steam H-game.
Ani Live you say? Iam gonna try it.
i'd listen to mouse she's super intelligent
Sounds like they wanna have a way of taking a fully made model to edit and resell to different users who want to stream as a Vtuber, but don't have their own model yet.
So they can say they want "Something like ironmouse's model but with..." and then they ask for some changes.
One of my favorite Vtubers said they were going to be streaming on it. Hope they see this message. It sounds real sketchy for sure.
Here, the final reason why you SHOULDN'T use this app: "The App and other matters regarding these Terms shall be governed by the laws of Singapore."
Have fun being on the wimps of a dictatorship
If Twitch and CZcams are the equivalent of an employer saying "We need a note of your national insurance/social security/driving licence/whatever number for HR and then we can hire you," then this app is like an employer going, "We need you to give us all your original documents to keep. Also, change your address to our office so that we have control if anything changes."
I agree they want you to “upload your model” so they can have the rights to your model or something
Oof, as if the Nexas CEO incident wasn't bad enough, now even Ironmouse speaks up and question this new app.
I want to try this app out of curiosity as a viewer but they still haven't gotten back to my request 3 weeks ago, rip Android users.
Yeah I know a few vtubers jumping on that, I have concerns
I bet they're needing more data so they can train an AI to vtube for them. I bet the model won't do much for them
“upload your model raw file” would bring a scenario like this: oh you don’t want to stream anymore on the site. and they can be: cool, we will have some ai take control of your avatar and continue on monetising
At this time & price point (ca. $10k + for a decent Vtuber model and rigging) it's easier (+ way more secure and waaay cheaper) just to learn Live2d etc. + buy the top tier computer equipment and do everything yourself.
This is my shot!, to MS paint i go, to make my future! and with this TOTALLY not a scam app is gonna carry me like my CoD teammates when i fall asleep gaming!
What file ext do i need to save this MSP atrocity im gonna make as? lol
This is why you stay independent.
In before the same company creates an AI generated vtuber model software.
Not only due to how sketchy it sounds, but for Mouse specifically, they probably don't even have enough storage space for all her models!
Also, it’s pretty clear that Mousie has been doing her reps. 😉
Using their software also doesnt gareentee your not being recorded.
Ah yes. The true mark of a niche having made it is the scams that spring up around it.
mad ironmouse is scary 😅
what is wrong with Kick? i dont get it. what did i miss?
They probably would've gotten away with this, if the app launched four to five years ago.
ai training probably
this site sounds as shady as can be
that being said, mousey could probably give them a model, she has so many to spare lol
There was no way this aint a scam.
Yea like how much do most of these v-tubers spend to have a model custom rigged for them? I've heard at least in the thousands, not sure if I heard right. But that's something you paid for, it's (hopefully if you negotiated it right with the modeler) your property and Intellectual property. That's throwing all that money away.
It's Sony, this shit would end up stolen...worse off, I wouldn't put it past them to put in some kind of ownership clause.
That's fucked.
They gonna feed it to ai to make vtuber models
That is sketchy as hell. Definitely some sort of scam and/or data harvest.
Preach mouse!
the world of every single coperation using their own user base to feed an ai, this is sussy
That is totally scam to steal your property!
Sounds very shady, to say the least. On top of it being Sony, yeah, nope. Unless you have throwaway models of which then not sure if it would still be worth it to try out with.
Sounds like once you sign up, they'll have free reign to your models for free, plus easy access for others to also get your models. Among other things.
Can't convert everyone to a VTuber if the place you're at is all VTubers *thinking meme*
Safe space for what, ooo I am too scared to see a human face while watching vtubers. On the serious note Asking for Raw files while the AI boom is very Sus
Thats sketchy af
never upload your model online, those stuff are expensive.
Personally, I don't think safe spaces are a lucrative business or socially healthy
Like Nexas & VReverie, Singapore is not customer or human-friendly. Their businesses are all exploitative, and coming from a citizen here, I highly recommend people not to interact with Singaporeans on any business dealings.
If you need to, do your due diligence. Any company from this island republic must be scrutinized.
These scams are pulled in every digital industry. They did it with comics before. Oh, don't put your work on the largest platform, put it on ours and then we'll charge you for the privilege and own all your work.
I don't get why dogpiles on kick, it's a little hypocritical when Twitch is just as bad, at least Kick is self-aware , that they are an adult-rated site, and even warns ppl getting into streams and ppl signing up on the site that they have adult-themed content.
Meanwhile, you have Twitch that is having existential crisis of whether they should be an adult-rated site or a family-friendly site. Obviously, twitch wants the bag, so that they can be in every US television, so they want to be family-friendly, but they have actual streamers that do NSFW on the site, with ppl even doing the "the-birds-and-the-bees", is that really the kind of thing to show to children?
Mousey doesn’t want people to get scammed.
Twitter/X mob: HOW DARE SHE!
see, the funny solution to this is to upload bad models into their site to ruin the AI learning model
AniLive actively racing against Nijisanji to be the scummiest company in the industry.
it'sa"sus"attempt at keeping content created
only available to/from the platform. next
step is monetizing&paywalling. microtransactions gaming style. G,crabby,old
veteran
I speculate, just speculating: So they steal your banking info, and copy your model. Then they sell your model to a virtual brothel where people are paid three cents an hour to say and do whatever. Eventually you become very famous...
Hehehe.
Unalive
yes... yes you are everything thats wrong with the vtuber community.
Poor nux
Ironmouse on Anilive: Please upload your model so we can convert it and possible have a fake stream.
DigitrevX claims to own copyright to ProjektMelody's model: 𝕀 𝕠𝕨𝕟 𝕪𝕠𝕦!
It is kinda sketchy. Though if it's to keep things sfw then I can understand.
Also it may sound bad, but I am kinda happy that Ironmouse won't be using it just to create a Monopoly bend in what could be a flat sheet of paper. Although it does concern me that she suddenly argued against the isolation thing when she would have had to have interest in the site in the first place and not only learn about the shady request but also the fact that its VTuber focused, meaning she at one point was fine with isolating for her interests until given a reason not to like it.