The Strange Disappearance of Ben McDaniel
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
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On August 18th 2010, Ben McDaniel was diving in Vortex Spring Cave when something went horrifyingly wrong and this event would go on to be the greatest mystery in diving history. This is his story.
Attributions/Special Thanks for Photographs:
Eric Dbs, Russell James Smith, q phia, Greg Grimes, Sudhamshu Hebbar, The Javorac, South African Tourism, Paul Clark, dronepicr, Jeff Hitchcock, Elin B, Tony Alter, lasta29, Tom Jervis, Tim Sheerman-Chase, Lenny K Photography, Virginia State Parks, Jason Hollinger, Fan D, Rosmarie Voegtli, Robert McClellan, Derek Hatfield
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Previous video in the series - czcams.com/video/BhEAD2RdC5I/video.html
Have a great weekend!
HAPPY 500k HOMIE YEAAAAAAAAA
I would LOVE to question the person who said "it looked like the dog hadn't been fed in 2 days"
..oh yeah? The dog LOOKED like that? Why 2 days and not 1? Why 2 and not 0? Why 2 and not 4?
This is the kinda fake expertise that the people in control of the gate had.
500k CONGRATS MATEESSS
@@jonslg240 - Excellent point !! I've had dogs since the day I was born and even giving a poor dog no food for 2 days wouldn't be noticable at all. Physically anyway.
Great job on 500k subscribers 😊
Maybe the reason they could never find him is because he had no intentions of coming back out of the cave. If you never plan on turning around you will go deeper than anyone is willing to go.
Good point!
That makes a lot of sense to me. If a diver uses his air supply to go forward to 100%, then another diver searching only goes forward to around 50% because he has to return, he will only go 1/2 the distance forward. How would anyone know his intentions? That’s the mystery to me. Great Story, keep it up! I really look forward to, and enjoy Scary Interesting stories!!
Or maybe with silt flying, he simply THOUGHT he was turned to go out and went twice as deep as anyone else could manage to go. No matter, the man is gone, and no one else should die because of it.
This is true, but divers going in with rebreathers and dpvs would be capable of going much farther than someone on open circuit even if they were going in with that intention.
@@jakegarrett9748 not to mention tank staging
I recall watching a cave diving documentary (National Geographic, I believe) where they were exploring a supposedly fully mapped cave. At one point, they ended up in a silt cloud and scrambled for clear water; once clear of the silt, they were confronted with skeletal remains of someone in older dive gear. It turned out that a diver had mysteriously disappeared back in the 70's in an unknown side chamber, and the documentary crew was the first to discover him.
Correction: it was called "Lost World: Underwater." The body of the diver was already known, but because of the depth within the cave no attempts have been made to recover or identify him.
@@tammyhollandaisefound it czcams.com/video/-xXOUtwtnNI/video.html
@@tammyhollandaise I think I heard of that. the cave had a few weird quirks people almost never looked at.
@@tammyhollandaise some one tried to recover but failed. Now there are 2 bodies inside that cave.
@@andanandan6061 third time is the charm
Before my suicide attempt, I threw away/gifted most of my possessions, went out with friends and did lots of small day trips which would make it appear that I was doing well. In reality I was feeling at peace and euphoric that I had made up my mind on having an end date and method. Listening to this story it feels like Ben might have intended to make this dive his suicide and went as far into the cave as he could.
Not only that but, swimming underwater makes it all seem so peaceful and easy to leave behind. The water does something to you
I am glad to see you are still here, I hope you are doing well
Hope you’re in a better place now (or at least on your way to it).
But they went into the cave as far as he could go so he couldn't of died in the cave
Thank you for surviving. I've been in a pretty horrible mindset in the last month because one of my best friends went through with it.
I remember watching an interview with Ed Sorensen. He recalled one rescue he went in, where he was hailed as a great expert and flew into a location. And at the briefing, the police asked him what his plan for the rescue was. And Ed was like "I wont know until I get in the cave." Which really struck me. Because here is a world renowned cave diving expert, and he is fully acknowledging how each cave and experience is unique and the number of variables can make profound impacts on whether it's a rescue, recovery, or abandon.
That's a great point👍
That’s the exact personality trait that makes Edd so good.
He isn’t arrogant. He’s confident in his ability and smart enough to assess everything. He respects that he isn’t invincible. If more divers thought the way he does, his services wouldn’t have been needed as often as they have.
THAT'S WHY HE'S THE GOAT! THE GOAAATTT
I just saw that interview the other day!
Let's start by not using the word Rescue any longer. Rescue divers do not exist. BRV should be used: Body Recovery Volunteers.
The guy who died in 2012 was my dive instructor Larry. He also worked with my dad. He was well certified for diving that cave but still didn’t matter. He was a funny guy and is very missed.
Nothing against the guy... let me be perfectly clear about that...
BUT what concerns the likes of Edd Sorrenson, giving warnings like these, is human nature. Consider you can get about 6 hours into a cave on a reasonable re-breather rig... (for illustration, no need in perfect numbers)... Even a paltry reward of 30,000 offers the chance to make $5,000 PER HOUR... on a dive you'd likely do anyway for fun... THAT is a powerful lure...
SO you do the math... Getting excited in sports like Cave Diving (which is entirely very "Zen" in practice) is a good recipe for disaster. Even the pro's with decades of experience aren't immune to adrenaline or excitement. It's really hard to say for sure what went through someone's head when they decided to "try for the gold"... BUT advertising a reward for such a precarious activity is attractive enough to even bring the completely untrained out with the motivation "to reach the goal or die trying"... and THAT was Edd's (and most of the rest of the community if we're honest) main concern.
I'm sorry your instructor lost his life down there. I'm sorry Ben's family has no closure, and it cuts me deep to think there's another big fat advertisement that something a lot of people truly LOVE is too dangerous to be allowed "arguably"... I LOVE motorcycles and "dry caving" (though I've never actually seen a "DRY" cave in my life... it's always a muck-show... haha) and every time I hear of another cave with concrete poured into it, or boarded up "permanently" and another attempt to get legislation to outlaw either caving or motorcycles I get violently angry...
BUT just to clarify... that was a dubious "flub" of wording in the video. Sean (the guy who runs the channel) is obviously VERY well researched, so it's a detail that got slipped in editing somewhere... not any kind of attack on your instructor's reputation or good name... but the argument about human nature stands, even with the Dive Shop STILL sitting staunchly on the keys to the gate, regardless of any rewards offered (and they did as I understand it from others in Florida at the time)... THAT was one of the reasons the Police didn't interfere more than the "corrective advice" that Ben's parents obviously didn't heed (and didn't actually have to, since no court orders or other paperwork was filed)... Everybody thought "Since the Dive Shop sits on the keys so well anyway, nobody can get in without knowing what they're doing. It'll be fine."
BUT... of course... there's a certain loss of detail when sub-text isn't so well understood anymore. In any case, I want you to have some faith that there ARE others who understand... who DO get the sub-text... and who can at least figure out that there ARE courts in Florida that would've put a kibosh on any reward if not for the Dive Shop holding the keys to keep untrained amateurs from getting too deeply involved too easily... ;o)
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 - Thank you so much for that comment my friend. Myself and another dude put up pretty much the same comment, however both of us got 1 or 2 commentators that completely disagreed with the issue, saying that a cash reward of that size would not motivate anyone to make a dangerous dive such as that due to money. After both myself and the other guy, Razz I think his name was gave these nonsensical thinkers some excellent examples of how money can definitely draw unqualified divers due to reasons like owing alot of cash and very soon to boot, I know I haven't heard back from those id**ts, I don't know about the other guy but one of my examples was as follows. Id really respect your opinion if possible. My argument was like this: Say for instance you have 20 or 30 pro Baseball and/or Football players that just got drafted into a pro team. Now bare in mind that pro ball players love the sport so they do it for the game. Money is an added benefit. Now when these draftees go over there contracts and are told sorry guys, we dont haveo enough money to pay you anything. So you'll be playing for free, not 1 single player would sign that contract just because they like the game. My point being is that people definitely respond to money. And depending on the situation, amateur divers would have been enticed to enter that cave. Even ones with little or no cave diving experience. Money definitely can and does do strange things to many people. I dont understand how anyone can argue with a known fact. 👍
Sorry for your loss
@@Scott-G11 You're certainly welcome... I'm happy to contribute... AND to start out, just for clarity, people can (and WILL) argue against known facts even just for the sport of arguing. I suppose there's a tenuous entertainment value for stirring up trouble and dividing others over nonsense... BUT I digress. It's just a principle I've known most of my life...
As to the pro-ballers analogy, the thing about them is that there's already a market for pro-baller skills. If they were drafted by one team, it's practically a guarantee they passed up other team's offers to get to the contract stage, so they KNOW there's monetary value. EVEN if they would happily play the game for the game alone, they're stupid to accept a "no-pay situation" when a phone call can get them a contract to at least afford their own way through life and food and rent and so-forth... and probably some side profit to "sock away for rainy days"...
Indeed money does strange things to people. There's no denying it, but that's true of anything "of value". Diamonds (for instance) aren't actually worth much in the bigger picture of "supply versus demand" in the "raw math" sense. They're only actual value is from the companies that created a "perceived" demand and shortfall of supply, but you just TRY to teach that to most common folks... You'll get mixed results at best. The "value" of something is a matter of perception as much as it has anything to do with any spending power, and this delves into the twisted and weird intangible aspect of "prestige" as a value... Where you put that can change everything.
People have committed horrendous atrocities for "The greater glory of king and country" throughout history. Name your empire, and I'll show you atrocious behavior in its name... all the way to and including WWII and not just the Nazis...
Money, on its own, is only a medium of trade, a tool we use to facilitate a "universal trade language" so products and services can be delineated to direct spending power equivalents no matter where you are geographically or linguistically. AND yet, some are so hell-bent to "worship the almighty dollar" that they would starve to death before they could even begin to figure out a more primitive "barter system"... They simply can't function on anything else, and feel threatened or trapped if you try any other way... SO there's some interesting psychology driving this issue...
In any case, I'm going to get worse about "sounding rambly" if I keep going, and I think this thing's clearly long enough to do its share of damage... I hope it's understandable enough to kind of get you abreast of whereabouts my thoughts are on the whole of the matter. NOTHING works in or from a vacuum... haha ;o)
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 - WOW. That's pretty deep but so true in every one of your examples. 👍
I'm a trained mental health worker and I'm seeing a few red flags with Ben's story that suggest his actions were intentional. There are signs that people intending to end their lives exhibit that appear normal to those not familiar with them. IMHO Ben suffered a serious depressive episode after the difficulties him and his parents had been though, until he moved near Vortex Springs and began diving again. One of the signs I spoke of is a sudden upturn in mood, the person goes from a deep depression to happier and more optimistic because they've already decided to end things and making that decision is a relief.
Survivors of suicide attempts have told me that when they made up their mind to die, a huge weight was lifted off their shoulders and they experienced an almost euphoric feeling. The second red flag is the letter Ben wrote to his parents. Ben's parents had already lost one son and while Ben planned to end his own life he did not want them to experience the confusion and guilt that families suicide victims go through, asking themselves if they should have known, if they could have prevented it somehow.
I believe that Ben wanted it to appear that he'd died accidentally while cave diving, a hobby already well-known to be dangerous to the lives of those who pursue it. His determination to explore as far into Vortex Springs as possible was not an attempt to hide his body but to ensure other divers couldn't get to him in time to stage a rescue, unfortunately, Ben accomplished that last goal a little too perfectly.
I thought something similar when they mentioned his upturn in mood, and especially when they mentioned his letter. Totally different scenario but my mind immediately went to the phrase "he bought the farm". You said it better than I ever could.
Agreed, as a CPTSD/ Depressed person who has been there done that with more than a few therapists. It's amazing to me how much people who don't suffer these thoughts treat it like it's ebola, and will dismiss authoritative claims or experience just because "suicide bad, don't even mention it". But ask anyone who lives with or has struggled with such taboos? It's clear as day.
He accomplished it too perfectly indeed! That's the one significant thing about that scenario that bothers me. How did he cover his tracks so well that dozens of expert cave divers, not to mention two legendary cave divers smaller than him not even find one single clue or marking of where he might have gone. Seems almost impossible. Especially for someone who wasn't that experienced or even certified for cave diving.
Very puzzling.
I also thought it might have been some form of suicide. I was also seeing similar red flags in his story.
I’m so happy I found this comment. It’s actually kinda of crazy I have zero experience with professional psychology or mental health, yet I was pretty much pointing these things out as Scary was mentioning them. I have watched lots of murder mystery content in the past tho and have read a few books on philosophy and psychology.
And everything was making TOO much sense and adding up too perfectly. Full tanks of improper air left behind for them to find. The over joy out of nowhere and a note assuming it was his first time ever writing one RIGHT before he disappeared and what was said to eliminate guilt.
I’m 99% sure it was intentional in my opinion. These situations are always much more complicated when they appear too simplistic. We’re too fallible to not have some mess ups. So when everything points in one direction, it was meant to point it that direction to distract you from the truth. And if you read between the lines enough, that’s typically what happens.
As someone with depression and suicidal tendencies, if someone makes a quick turn around it may mean that they have given up and want to make sure no one worries about them. I had quit my job at one point, broke my lease, and all but disappeared while my family thought I had gotten a raise and was living my best life. Unfortunately we can’t rule our suicide for this case.
why do people always make another persons story about them....its like a odd game one up some do. ew
@hard-truthsbetter-than-swe6543 it's also a coping mechanism and communication mechanism for people with adhd. The comment is speculating on the mental state of someone due to past life experiences. Many others have voiced similar opinions in the comments. Commenting ew on someone who's giving a personal point of view and also that point of view being suicidal is pathetic. Just keep scrolling if you have nothing of intrinsical value to add.
@@szeggie you believed 100% what someone said on internet with no proof. many dumb people on internet saying shit for attention. She clearly stated she is not of sound mind,so nothing she says holds much weight. She showed no compassion to this person that we know for sure had many problems. She made it all about her! past ew down right gross!
@@szeggie Well said 👏
@@hard-truthsbetter-than-swe6543 And now you're making it all about you...and your opinion. Just leave her in piece, please
'Why would he tell his parents he would take care of them and seem hopeful for the future?' It's one of the biggest red flags, and the worst. I'm still haunted by an instance of suicide where my life was in such batshit chaos that I didn't see the warning signs.
If I were to do such a thing, thats what Id tell my folks...And thats how you know what really happened here.
Can confirm. At the worst time in my life, I aggressively tried to convince everyone else (and myself) that everything was and is going to be ok.
Unfortunately, planning for the future does not rule out a suicide. There is an interview from a person who shot themselves, but survived with facial injuries, and they told how they completed their homework for the next school day….even knowing they planned to shoot themselves that evening.
Yep, I also believe it was suicide from my own and others I’ve talked to experiences. You try to convince yourself by convincing others
it's honestly always just so astounding at how many people go out of their way to help after this kind of thing, even when everyone 100% accepted that there will only be a body recovery they still go so out of their way to try their best
$30,000 will do that to people.
@@lawrencetalbot8346 First off, if you think 30k is enough to risk your life for, then RIP.
Second off, we‘re talking about MONTHS of search time, and the amateur divers were absolutely NOT paid.
This is taking a look at the distraught parents and trying to find anything to help them move on. It is empathy and compassion.
Everyone has a mom, and when you see someone's mom so desperate for help, it's very motivating
@R D First off to someone who's a deadbeat but has diving experience 30k is obviously more than worth it. Secondly, yeah you are correct that they weren't getting paid put had they found the body they would have been paid 30k. This wasn't people doing it out of the good of their heart. I'm sure a few were but most I'd be willing to bet were doing it for the reward and/or notoriety.
I’m torn because some people have died while attempting a body recovery like David Shaw for example. I just can’t personally rationalize someone losing their life trying to complete a body recovery.
Ed Sorenson is the man. Some of the stories of his recoveries are unbelievable. It takes a special kind of person to do that type of work.
Crazy right? I’ve seen a few of these cave diving disaster videos and the amount Ed pops up says a whole lot.
If Edd couldn't find him, he isn't there.
@@Mertbabasisert He is like Batman, but better and real.
Ed is like real life super hero. He actually responded to one of my messages on his channel and I was honestly more excited about that than any celebrity or sports figure would ever make me. Ed is the definition of a man's man and I would be honored to meet him and shake his hand.
Truly a special human, indeed!!!🙏👌🤿❣️
My brother disappeared. He was a paranoid schizophrenic and often went 'off the grid'. Whenever he did, he ALWAYS gave his cat extra food knowing it would be a few days before anyone noticed. If he was planning on going missing and loved his dog he would have gave it more food. That jumped out at me and is my two cents
Also he let the map of the cave, proving his "crimes" inside his car, in the most mundane place ever. I think if it was planned he would cover his evidences.
So what happened to your brother 😢
@@akshorts2115 it's been years. Nobody has seen or heard from him since.
@@Samantha360 did he had any suicide attempts 🥺 like did he jump off a high building❓
@@akshorts2115no. That's never been a concern, but he is careless with himself. We don't believe him to be alive anymore, all his mail goes to my mom and he never updated the paperwork for his SSI and lost it. At this point we just want his body to bury.
I always am suspicious when I hear families and friends say the person was so happy they couldn’t have been suicidal. My family thinks I was doing incredible during the period of time I was severely suicidal and planning an attempt and frankly due to my behaviour I have 0 clue how they thought I was happy. If I had gone through with my plan it could have very well been viewed as an accident if my family insisted there was no way I could be suicidal or depressed.
Same here. I even encountered a psychiatrist who also insisted I was so happy and needed no treatment.😂.My father got a relief, took me out of hospital and told me: see, you are healthy, never talk about this again. Don’t trust family when you’re depressed, they are always the last one who know things.
I've been in a local abandoned mine and a small cave on Vancouver Island and both times everything in my body told me to leave despite the safety. How people are able to go in an underwater cave I will never understand.
Oxygen tank
Guidelines
@@RaiderNation327 haha very funny
@@Anonymous-ld7je oxygen with a touch of jive turkey
Which mine? I live on Vancouver island too
It's not at all uncommon for people to appear happier just prior to committing suicide as the burden of such a decision is lifted after finally being made (perhaps that could apply to the faking of death too). It's also hard to trust family assessments, as it's routine to hear someone close say "they would never harm themselves" or "they weren't the type of person...". You never know what's going on inside someone's head, and the risk factors were certainly there in Ben's case. I'm torn between him setting it up to look like a diving accident and doing it elsewhere to spare his family the additional grief, or the alligators getting to him right away after his body flowed into the swamp through the outlet.
LOL gators didn't get him. There would be pieces of his dive gear scattered around if that happened.
I thought the same thing. My guess would be that he went there planning on not to be seen ever again
I agree with that logic and have had to tell people the same thing before about "they would never..."
Take for example people who end up committing a crime as part of a group
The parents in interviews will ALWAYS say "OH my gosh my baby could never do such a thing they are so sweet they were manipulated blah blah blah"
But we all know that parents will say anything along those lines in situations like these, whether they want to deny mental disorders or depression.
Yeah I agree. I once worked with a guy who was happy as could be to travel to Colorado alone to Longs Peak in the winter time when it’s very dangerous. The guy was always a bit quiet and kept to himself but when he decided to do that trip he was bursting with joy. My friend and I who have hiking experience asked if he ever hiked before and he said “not really” and things like “ooh I hope I see a grizzly!”. My friend even loaned him some of her hiking gear for his trip. His car was found with all of the gear still inside. He didn’t take it with him. They didn’t find his body until the spring and found that his body had fell from a high ledge and was buried underneath the snow. The whole situation seemed strange to me but was ultimately very sad.
I was going to say this. The fact that he started getting better could just be because he'd finally made the ultimate decision.
I honestly think he's still in the cave. I've watched so many great cave diving videos on youtube (never been myself) and to me it just seems like certain cave systems are so extensive and intricate that it's totally possible for him to have gotten stuck somewhere that simply hasn't been discovered yet.
He's definiely still in the cave. Starting a new life is basically impossible nowadays and why would he leave $1100 behind and the chances of him getting flushed out our pretty slim.
Sorry kid but there's sadly no chance of that happening
@@Albedowoof what happening? There being an undiscovered area of the cave? Cause that’s fairly plausible actually
@@johnevans7180 Yeah actually my bad, I believe I might have read your comment mentioning that he was alive in the cave which is nowhere mentioned, sorry!
The cave is well known. There are no other parts of the cave. A new passage has been made by removing more sand and silt however this was not done until long after Ben went missing.
As someone with a friend who attempted suicide, when i heard about that upturn in mood for Ben i saw it as a huge red flag. Making that decision to just end the pain is a relief for people in that mental/emotional state and something to watch out for.
(I am not saying he did for certain but is what I feel is most likely)
You're exactly right, it's one of the many things I do personally, when I'm stuck & want to unplug my stupid self from this silly Matrix.
..It's especially bad when elections make desperate, pearl-clutching politicians push their recklessly divisive group identity politics, which ironically, is making us all feel even more isolated & insignificant.
-The unprecedented manipulation of the justice system, used to persecute a political opponent, which is making us lose faith in society.
-Like the modern left's unreasonable hostility towards "toxic" straight white males.
-Or worse, the awful way they treat female athletes that have sacrificed & dedicated their entire lives, just to end up competing against, well... You know😖
Edit: I hate myself for saying this entire comment, sorry OP
@@tobymcgroby8967 if I fed myself a diet of alt right media, i'd want to kill myself too lmao
That's literally not true at all
@@tobymcgroby8967what are you even saying
@@tobymcgroby8967 You know, I have a lot of empathy for people who are suffering so much. However, it's clear you're the kind of person who would call me and my loved ones slurs, and support those who actively work to ruin our lives. Perhaps you should try caring about others if you want people to stop thinking you're "toxic."
Lie detectors are extremely controversial in the scientific community. They are used all over the place, but they aren't nearly as infallible as pop-culture would have us think.
They are useful at making people crack and you cannot use the results but you can use the answers to the questions.
It's dramatic cop pseudoscience that an audience drugged up on false crime moral panic, especially the class of people composed of those like Ben's parents, eat up.
@@MrSqurkThey are completely unreliable, and sociopaths can ace them with ease. In other words, people who are likely to commit serious crimes are also the most likely to pass the test. Completely innocent people with nervous condition, anxiety and the like, are likely to fail.
@@Nocturnalux my point is that doesn’t matter. It’s useless on a some people (I completely agree) and the entire thing can completely disregarded. Where it is useful is that people will often give additional information with questioning + the machine, the actual machine is rather pointless.
Polygraphs aren't even admissible in court.
I've gone diving in Vortex Springs many times, and appreciate you talking through this story! I did a short dive in the cave (to the gate) with some cave diving friends, and it's no joke. Unnerving, if you're not careful, but hauntingly beautiful. I can see the allure, but dare not go too deep into that part of the hobby.
I do love that spring though! It's cold, but during the night, the eels come out of the cave, and love eating canned beans and Vienna sausages from divers.
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeels
Something about eels eating beans and sausages sound hilarious 😂
Oh good, let's train the eels to eat things that look like fingers, and then go diving there later
I like your comment, wonder if I would ever have that courage to go diving in a cave. Also, I'm wondering how anyone would know that Vienna sausages and/or beans would be a yummy treat to feed the eels! 😝😋
@neverthesame7887 I had no clue! My dive shop had been going to Vortex Springs for years, and just knew. I imagine someone thought it would be funny to try and it was!
Another factor I'm not seeing much on the suicide theory is that rescuers would be spending more time and air having to look around the cave and take time to search more crevices or tunnels Ben could have been in. If Ben's goal was to go far enough into the cave that no one would find him/ his body, he could've been able to go farther than even Ed. No matter if a rebreather was used, Ed would have been taking the time to search every bit of the cave while Ben could have use his maps to go straight through and deep enough to not be found (if that was his goal).
There is something oddly comforting to see how passionately helpful the deep diving experts are.. like Ed and Jill putting in so much work and risk with no other benefit to themselves than bringing closure. It makes me think that it explains why those souls enjoy deep diving, they are so dedicated to finding answers no matter how dark and scary the journey.
Jill made a movie about it. That is a benefit.
I absolutely love scary signage. Some of my other favorites are "Drowning Machine" and "Electrified Water, Coastguard will not come to rescue you if you swim here". There are some good videos on those!
I always love those signs; but I’ve wondered before if they will ever take them away, since it seems kind of like a destination & photo op for lots of folks!!💀😱🐢
@@turtlejeepjen314 At least that means those people read the sign, right? The scarier it is the more likely people are to heed it's warning I'd say.
@@sourhour3403If there's a sign warning you of how dangerous a certain place is, and people decide to go there strictly to continue past the sign, that's kinda natural selection at its finest, no?
Idk why, but anytime I see the picture of fingers being cut off by machinery(like the warnings on forklifts) a piece of my stomach starts rotating, just picturing how simply it could happen, and how devastating it would be for anyone unfortunate enough to live through it.
@@nignamedmutt7270 exactly, that can absolutely happen if you're not careful and that's why they show you the cold hard truth so you would understand it and avoid it. it's scary because.. the result of a mistake could be scary, and it does work well and get the point across. I think that's very interesting.
the parents' behavior honestly angers me. i get that they were desperate to find their son when they'd already lost one, but the impression you get is they felt other people's lives were less valuable than just retrieving their son's body, and they felt they could just throw money at the problem until it was fixed. "brave enough"... smh
AGREED!!! As a parent I can totally empathize with what they may have been going through, especially having lost another child as well. But their actions were selfish, period.
Also as a parent, I would NEVER want another parent, or even family, to have to go through something like that. They were absolutely warned they may be enticing someone else's loved one to their death and still proceeded.
I've heard multiple stories like this where loved ones put a stop to recovery efforts because they didn't want anyone else to put their lives at risk just for their closure. This is the opposite of that.
@@llsher5210 Good call from both of you. Human remains are a joke in "modernized" nations. I know I am never gonna be buried, nor do I want to monopolize an exponentially growing Earth with some completely unknown memorial with my stiff in it. All energy gets reused so an educated Lebowski would obviously want your remains thrown back to the ocean, preferentially hilariously, thrown into someone's face by a backdraft, right into a really, really long and profuse beard. Hopefully, I have had at least had a few good comments about the In-And-Out Burger before I go though. And that would be it.
They did the best they could given the situation. I love how the internet woulda coulda shoulda all the time.if someone you love dies please for me, keep all your emotions in check and don't do anything that would be considered selfish. Don't want you to be a hypocrite.😊
I understand its bad what they did. But I can also empathise with the fact they have to grieve burying both their children. It's a hard situation they were probably so one track minded on saving their son they couldn't think logically or rationally
@@problematic_canik
Grief is not an excuse to carry on like those parents did.
An entire community spent weeks of their lives trying to help and find their family closure. The “brave enough” comment insinuates the searchers did not care, even when their actions proved otherwise.
We have ALL lost people we loved and there’s not always an answer.
It sounds like they are people who think they can buy whatever they want.
I’m sorry for their loss, but cave diving is one of the most dangerous sports out there, he knew the risks.
Ed Sorensen is the best cave diver in the world. He is known for going into places other divers can’t and coming back out with his rescue/recovery mission complete. His opinion after searching this cave multiple times is that Ben McDaniel is not in Vortex Spring cave. He said the last room he checked was absolutely pristine, that there wasn’t any sign of a diver being there recently, not even a fin mark in the silt. It is because of his account that I believe someone in the diving community killed Ben and placed his spare tanks(filled with the wrong type of air, which Ben would have known since he was thoroughly researching cave diving) along the tunnel to throw off recovery divers like Sorenson.
But why though?
@@DKNguyen3.1415 There are dozens of motives to why someone would kill someone else. You don't need a motive to see that this is the only possible explanation. Most likely the two employees were lying. I have a feeling they drowned him before he entered the cave, then opened the gate and put some tanks there (the wrong ones even) for diversion. Weird coincidence that they open the gate for him the one time he disappears.
@@zagreus5773if Ben would have known better than to use compressed air because he was looking into cave diving, then by that logic wouldn’t the dive shop employees who were actual certified cave divers be even less likely to stage compressed air tanks?
@@gregkosinski2303 just a guess, but they might have just thought he was too inexperienced to know that. They knew he probably was breaking into the cave but I think it was only during the investigation when they found ben's notes did anyone else know how deep he'd actually gone/how much he practiced
@@gregkosinski2303You don't exactly think straight after just murdering someone?
This story is terrifying. Even a diving robot couldn't find him. At this point it seems like the only way anyone could find ben is going in with the intent of dying, because that's the only way you could go far enough to reach wherever he is at. Maybe one day, a couple genrations from now, we could send in an even more advanced underwater machine that can recover bodies such as Ben's. Although at that point there may be nothing left. But after watching a few of these, maybe there is some secret pocket of air in that cave which is why there was no fish activity. He could have died above water in a pocket
What body? In a couple of generations, he will be a pile of scattered bones if that. Let it remain his crypt for all to understand the fate of those who ignore the warnings.
@@marchellochiovelli7259 In a couple of generations you'll be a pile of bones too LOL
@@marchellochiovelli7259did you even read the comment
You would need a few dives first to place additional tanks along your route to go deeper. I don’t know if that’s ever even been attempted before.
You’d think with all our drone tech we’d be able to investigate those squeezes that are unsafe for cave divers.
Problem is they have to have an unbelicle cord because wifi doesn't work well underwater. There are other complications as well so Underwater drones are cumbersome also they have propellers and it's easy to kick up silt in a cave.....an experienced diver can get any places he was, I'm sure Jill and Ed both could get anywhere he could they were smaller than him. Much of the cave is still not mapped so it's very possible hes really deep in there somewhere and someday they may find a skeleton.
There's this interesting thing called an acoustic nanomodem that's getting developed - it's slower, much slower, but it works right through the water.
You just need to use it when the dive is empty because it's LOUD. It's basically that old dial up technology for using the internet over phone lines, but designed to push noise and listen through the water.
@@PatriotCody - They also make some very small underwater drones with much smaller umbilical cords just for special places that are hard to get in to. The can also be brought into the cave as far as the divers can go and be launched from there. It certainly would be worth a try. The only problem I can think of is that there's probably not to many very small ones that would fit thru that tight squeeze were the divers had to stop, that are actually readily available. Then there's the problem of finding one to use.
@@TheGrinningViking that's so interesting, thanks for sharing! I love stuff like that
I would have thought some sort of sonar or scanning device could have helped. I’ve seen recovery teams such as Adventures with Purpose use them and it sorta creates a picture as it scans. Although given it’s a cave it may bounce and not be accurate but it would have at least given an X-ray view. Truly hope technology increases and maybe we can see further into the cave without risking lives.
Gotta love the temerity of them blowing off the people who spent days risking their lives to find him to try and get someone else to do it, and got them killed. Like if it's so easy you find him.
It definitely was a slap in the face but it’s also important to remember that they were probably going through tremendous amounts of grief. They had already lost one son and now another. I can’t imagine what that must feel like.
@@Mia-tz9hcNor can I and I can't imagine the mental state I'd be in at the time, but wouldn't you be beyond appreciative since you've already lost one and now a ton of people are doing everything they can to find your second missing son? I can't imagine I'd do anything other than bow down and kiss their feet lol; essentially being like "thanks but you suck" is an odd take
@@Slyfoxx That's just the narrative the video creator presented and not necessarily the truth
@@jesspavlichenko5745 My comment was based off of the increased reward asking for "brave" people that the parents put out later in the investigation. Regardless of how the video creator may have explained it, that reward and note kinda speak for themselves lol
@Sly Yes, because anyone who volunteers to go down is brave as well as alerting them to the danger of the endeavour. It's not a slight on the previous divers, and I'm not sure why the narrator portrayed it that way
I watched another video about a diver who had gone missing, and they ended up discovering a small hole at the bottom of a cavern that had a current flowing into it that was undocumented and would have gone unnoticed if it hadn't almost pulled the searchers into it too. Underwater caves have so many unknowns, and I fully believe Ben is down there somewhere.
I saw that story and I can’t find it again
@@lemonmouth8112 its from the devil's hole, in death valley with the pupfish in it. I reaaaaaaly want to get a robot vehicle and send it down that hole.
I remember that video! It stuck with me because that unnoticed hole at the bottom of the cave seems BOTTOMLESS. Just the thought of that is terrifying and really makes me wonder if there’s actually an ocean under the ocean like some people theorize.
As someone whom has attempted suicide on several occasions; never once have i done so without making sure my dog was taken care of. No man plans ahead a suicide and leaves his dog alone or without food for an indeterminate amount of time. Nope.
didn't think of that. Good catch.
Except if you're planning to have people know that you're dead but think it was an accident. He went cave diving with a set amount of gas, and the employees usually waited to see if he'd made it out okay. He probably figured they'd call in his disappearance - id est, his death - in only a few hours. Then police would check his residence. He probably didn't think it would take over a day before someone noticed.
@CosmicWaltz7 not a risk I would take with my dog. Ever.
@@silkuk8417 You take that risk all the time without realizing it. Do you have a plan for someone to check your house occasionally in case of a sudden heart attack or stroke? It can take weeks before someone comes looking in those cases, usually when the neighbors start to smell the body. Friends usually assume you're busy, work assumes you quit. One woman took over a decade to discover she'd died, I recall. People also disappear often, and most times it isn't suspected to be suicide. There's no telling what exactly the story behind those disappearances is, but it would likely take a while before someone connected the dots that you were one of them.
What I'm saying is, few people plan for what they don't imagine is a possibility. If he thought, with certainty, that he'd be known to be dead in an hour's time, and wanted to appear accidental, overfeeding the dog would give the impression of suicide. But, he'd gotten used to the employees waiting, and figured he'd be reported in hours. But, if any truth is real, it's that employees don't like waiting around at work off the clock. They also had gotten used to him diving and coming back up, so they'd be more likely to assume they weren't needed there. Between murder/hiding a body and suicide, suicide takes fewer people to cover up. And he seemed to be showing some clear indicators of someone planning to die.
I'm interested in the fact that the staged air bottles only had oxygen. That nearly screams that he only got as far as the last "staged" bottle. If you're planning on disappearing, it's cheaper to stage those bottles than the mixed air bottles that you'd actually need if you were going to dive. He may be in there but the water tests for a decomposing body came back negative. He could of course be stuck under a rock fall and downstream so the water test may not have caught enough microbes. However, it feels like he didn't actually do a dive beyond staging the tanks that were of no use to him if he did dive. It's really sad that his parents won't have any closure.
I definitely get what you are saying but why go the cheap route to stage your own death and then leave a wallet with over a grand in your vehicle? Especially when pros are gonna be called in and will knowingly find the wrong air mixture? Not sure what it costs to fill tanks with the mixture so I am just speculating. I think there is something to be looked at with these staged tanks too.
Pure oxygen is toxic below 20 feet, he had normal surface air in his tanks which is about 21% oxygen, 78% Nitrogen and then small traces of other gases like helium make up the remainder. And with him not being a cave-diver and probably also not tri-mix certified he wouldn't know how to mix his own air and if he asked the shop for tri-mix then he'd basically be admitting to going into the cave. Plus even though it's rare to see, some people (even open-water divers) either don't know or don't understand the reasons for different gas mixes. In the video he assumed that Ben used tri-mix in the past but there's nothing to say he did, his dive logs just showed he went deep enough he would need it but nothing saying that is what he actually did. I would bet he was diving on normal air every time he went down there and was just lucky to get back out again, until finally his luck ran out. There is a reason for getting cave certified if you want to dive in caves, and it's their own safety at stake if people disregard those warnings, along with the safety of all the divers that search for and recover their bodies.
That's good thinking. However, the same logic would apply if someone staged his death as a diving accident, though I'm not sure what the motive might be. I consider it highly probable that he drowned and his body was removed to prevent closing the area :-(
@Doug Giles thanks for the info 👍 I had no idea about this and you really explained it well.
Maybe he already knew he wasn’t coming back. 🤷🏼♀️
I cannot think of a more panic inducing situation than being stuck in a narrow in closure in the pitch black underwater cave. It would add to the fear knowing you are like a penny wedged in the morning deepest, darkest crevasse in the earth.
The thing about confined squeezes like that - and I'm not even talking about underwater - is that if you start to panic for some reason you tense up and actually expand to fill the gap and then you start a spiral of feeling more stuck so imagining you are stuck. It sounds crazy and perhaps I didn't explain it well but once I had left my keys inside a locked room and the only way in was through a window at about head height, which was only about 8 inches high. It was about 3 feet wide too so not a real squeeze in all dimensions. I climbed up on a ledge which was below it and squeezed through up to my chest and started shouting to my mates outside ''I'm stuck I'm stuck!'' but of course I wasn't and just backed out a few seconds later, but for those moments I kind of was stuck. I'd been through those exact type of windows before in another house so I don't know why it happened that time. So in a cave crevice underwater the fear would be far worse.
In Florida they got 🐊 and 🐍 I’m
@stephenwest6738: Believe me it's a nightmare that still awakens me from sleep 40 years later. They say that God watches over the foolish, I can vouch for that...👍
I have no diving experience whatsoever, but I would expect that testing the water for decomposition would depend heavily on how many times (and where) you test and what kind of current/waterflow exists in the cave. Not sure if I missed it or not, but if the cave itself is a relatively closed system, it might not be possible to detect decomp unless you're extremely close to the body because those traces won't be circulating with a current. Based on that logic that I completely made up on my own (but makes sense to me), I expect he's still in the cave, but in a pretty closed off area.
OP listed a bunch of rivers and even a swamp the police thought his body might have washed into? My first thought hearing those was "how can you ever completely search a swamp" and "maybe he passed through the cave system to these rivers and crawled out to become a carefree hobo"
@@Badficwriter.... or it's Florida. Gator took him ( alive or dead) and then stashed the body somewhere.
@@taitsmith8521Exactly what I was thinking. If the body could wash out into a swamp alligators might have had a snack.
So strange. I feel for his family who are missing him and have no closure. I understand they made a poor choice but their grief must have been almost unbearable. To loose one child and now to loose another, with no body, no closure. Whatever happened to him I hope everyone has found some sort of peace despite this loss.
As unfortunate as it is, I would have to agree with Jill on this one. Hopefully one day his body can be found and recovered.
I think he cut and ran. He was in a lot of debt, forced to move back home with his parents. You can smile all the time on the outside, but that doesn’t mean you’re conveying what’s on the inside. That letter being written write before he vanished seems to much of coincidence. More like a feint that everything is okay so they won’t check up on him or immediately worry, giving him time to vanish. Either he ran or he killed himself.
@@lawrencetalbot8346 I'd expect him to find an excuse to leave his dog with someone, or arrange for them to check in on it, if he was going to disappear. Yes, he could've assumed someone would visit the house and find his dog hungry before long, but… would you take that risk with your dog? Not to mention just disappearing on his girlfriend. I'm surprised there wasn't some discussion of the condition of their relationship in the video.
@@lawrencetalbot8346 But would someone in desperate need of money abandon $1100? Doesn't make sense.
@@agdoren not to mention it sounds like he wasn’t baring the brunt of the debt now that his parents were taking care of him
@@lawrencetalbot8346 but he would've took the 1k he left in his car, he would need every penny and not leave it in the car.
I fell down a rabbit hole for this case a few years ago and I have to say, my theory is he drowned in the cave and his body was removed and disposed of by the owner of the cave.
He was quite an unskilled diver, vastly exaggerated his driving experience and had become unpopular with other divers and the staff. He was for example missing the necessary certificates for cave diving but acted like he was a cave diving master. He would always drop out of courses early without finishing them.
Dive sites are at risk of getting completely closed down if too many people die there. Like they were already threatening to do. Sometimes, just one death is enough. Ben was also missing the certificates yet still got to dive there, which could become a huge problem for the owner.
My theory is the owner saw that there was a body there, likely behind the gate where Ben was fumbling to get through and maybe panicked and drowned, the owner removed it, disposed of the body elsewhere and opened the spring as per usual.
The body is not hidden in the cave. A decaying body would show up in the water analysis. And if Ed Sorenson says he's not in there he's not in there. Especially not further in the cave than Ed got in.
Just my theory though.
Certainly a possibility. Reasonably though I feel as if a cover-up of that scale is hard to imagine, it seems like a lot of obstacles would have to be overcame in order to keep that hidden.
I'm personally under the impression that he entered the cave with the intentions of never returning. The sudden upturn in mood, the seemingly random letter to his parents expressing his gratitude, detailed maps of his progress into the save, the suspicious staged bottles with the wrong air, etc. It could all just be a weird coincidence though, who knows.
One important thing to consider with that last bit though: Ed Sorenson said he wasn't in there, but Ben had significantly more air to travel with than Ed did. If it was accidental he surely would've been found. But what if he was trying to get far enough into the cave that no other diver would be able to find him without dying themselves?
From my understanding divers go off of the rule of thirds: 1/3 for the trip down, 1/3 for back up, and 1/3 in case something happens during your dive. This implies that Ed only had a third (or 1/2 at absolute most) of available air for the search before he had to turn back. Ben, with no intentions on returning, could've used the entire capacity of his tank to get so deep into the cave that he would never be found or recovered. This could also explain why the tests showed no decomposition. He may have been so far into the 1,600+ foot cave that the water was too diluted at the point where it was being tested by the searchers.
@@Slyfoxx doesn't account for the fact that rescue divers could've used a rebreather
No you're wrong
@@TheGhostFart Honestly I know almost nothing about rebreathers in the sense of cave diving. I've listen to dozens of stories over the years though and I haven't heard of anyone using one of them to search for missing divers. Can you use a rebreather in those conditions?
@@Slyfoxx there are easier ways to commit suicide buddy
Glad that you mentioned Jill Heinerth also doing the most she could to offer total strangers some level of closure.
Though the "Ben was doing better" is more of a red flag than anything when discussing whether he intentionally vanished. Going from a low point to suddenly expressing hope is just as likely to imply a terrible plan that gave him the impression of regaining control of his life.
Also the thing with the letter. Who writes a letter like this under normal circumstances?
The "maybe he did this on purpose" theories are interesting... but no one with a pet is going to leave their animals hungry or even possibly starving...That alone tells me this was not intentional..
Normally the employees waited for him to resurface before leaving. If he were going to kill himself and expected they would be waiting, he'd know the police would be taking care of his dog in a matter of hours, because there's a certain time frame where you know a diver cannot have survived. But, the employees didn't wait around, and no one called in his vehicle being abandoned the next day. And, yeah, it can take a bit to realize a vehicle hasn't moved and that you haven't seen the person that uses it. I don't think he expected it would take that long to know he was dead.
So let me get this straight... the dive shop personnel who had a responsibility to not allow a guy without proper permits to enter actually dove down and unlocked a gate for him? sounds like a good wrongful death lawsuit to me.
They knew he was going into the cave anyways as his dive log proved, and probably figured if he's going to do it either way it's better to open the gate so he doesn't get stuck on the gate itself and drowned. Obviously not a wise decision but I can understand the reasoning behind the thought process.
@@douggiles7647 Thats a pretty stupid conclusion for them to come to. The common sense response is to tell him to gtfo and call the cops if he doesn't. They still have alot of liability for failing to do so, especially after having admitted they knew full well what he was doing. Its literally their explicit responsibility to stop this kind of behavior and they know it
@@JS-wp4gs considering the parents could afford his life on the beach house and 30k as reward… if they could pursue someone legally they would. In fact they taking the offer down after someone died is probably they covering their asses cause if the next dead driver had clear evidence of being there to look for Ben they could be made responsible.
I'm curious about if the employees left the gate unlocked all night...
@@Graest They'd have had to? But did they lock it the next morning? Frankly, I'm not impressed by the "criminal backgrounds" and poor judgement of the dive shop.
I don't understand my own fascination with these cave diving videos. I've been obsessed for years and I've never been on a dive in my life. Thanks.
You should start Diving.. Conquer your fear with proper training and knowledge and many many dives
You're probably fascinated with exploring pathways to the unknown and the dangers that come with them. You may also be curious about how fragile life is and how the future is not guaranteed. One mistake may be all it takes to fall a good person.
Absolutely terrified of tight places due to an incident from when I was younger but also absolutely fascinated by these videos.
This accurately describes my situation. I've realised this just a couple of hours ago. And now its 3 am and i cannot sleep because of this thought.
It's insane that the diving center let him into the cave alone. That is one of the first rules of diving. They carry at least part of the guilt
Honestly, it's more than more of it. Even if they knew he would probably go past the gate anyway, why open it for him? They basically participated in whatever happened.
This! No one is speaking on this. The willfully opening the locked gate just does not make sense!
Is a gun manufacturer responsible for murder if a gun is used in a crime.
@@philup6274If they don't do their due diligence and proper checks about who they're giving the gun too, then yeah. We can't use veils of ignorance as an excuse forever.
@@philup6274 Well I hope they all did their jobs properly then
Drowning alone in a dark and very confined space - yeah, this triggers a whole bunch of different phobias.
I have a theory about what may have happened to Ben which was not suggested in the video, based only upon the information presented here. I am by no means an expert, but I have some experience as a first responder, and the following may answer some of the lingering questions which still remain.
I personally don't think foul play by another human was involved in Ben's disappearance. If the air bottles recovered by divers near the surface were indeed his, it seems likely that he didn't intend to make a deep descent during his final drive. Instead, something closer to the surface may have piqued his curiosity, and he remained in relatively shallow water. However, without warning, Ben suddenly suffered a medical emergency or equipment failure which rendered him unconscious. Lacking a partner to reinsert his regulator, pull him to safety, or call for help, he drowned.
Ben's body could have then been carried out of the spring by the current before eventually being discharged somewhere in the surrounding swamp. Recently deceased and probably weighed down by at least some gear, it's possible that Ben's body sank in a location missed by the searchers.
Florida's swamps are well-known to contain a healthy alligator population, and-as gruesome as it sounds-his remains may have been eaten by one or more local gators. It is also a documented fact that manmade objects-some of them large and strange-have been found inside alligator's stomachs in the past. Gators seem to not be particularly concerned about what they swallow if they smell food. This would explain Ben's disappearance from the spring without a trace, and the lack of fish activity noted by divers. Unfortunately-if this theory is true-unless someone happens to find Al E. Gator amongst a swamp full of unnamed gators, he may never be found.
Again, just a theory. Very respectful presentation. The cave diving community in general is obviously a class act, going above and beyond for one of their own. I hope more details come to light in the future so that Ben's family may at last find some closure. Be safe out there, everybody.
interesting
"It was a real low spot in his life when he had to live in one of his parents' beach homes". Gut wrenching
Seriously 😆, I wish I could climb up to that low point in his life because sure seems like a high point to me, I'm a hell of a way below living in a beach house, and too broke to start diving even though I'm obsessed with it, too broke for most hobbies really considering right now what I make in a month doesn't even cover my rent. I know mental health can effect anyone but I'll be damned if his life didn't sound near perfect to me before he disappeared.
My parents wouldn’t let any of my siblings or I live in any of their vacation homes/properties even if we were down and out. They told us we can’t move back home except as ashes in an urn.
The man lost his brother, went through a divorce, and coped with a failing business all at the same time. A pretty house is not going to fix that. Have some god damn empathy.
@@RobinBoBobbin Now imagine suffering through that hell but without the home and the stability
@@custardpup6385 Phooey. He could certainly be a lot more comfortable than others who have had to get through similar misfortunes.
I feel like he probably got into a panic in an unmapped area of the cave and accidentally entered a narrow passage, then in his panic disturbed silt and rock which blocked off the entrance to the passage. It would explain how the rescue divers found no trace of him on their searches. It also fits the narrative that Ben intended to return to the surface (evidenced by him saying he'd look after his parents and not leaving food for his dog)
I love your voice mate. After my normal work i usually work on the pc and its so relaxing listening to you. Keep the videos coming please.
Honestly I could see each scenario being true. He could’ve faked his death because of the debt he was in. But I think he made it very deep inside the cave without scratching the walls of the accessible parts, then panicked, got lost/stuck, and drowned
Or maybe he wanted to fake his death but died accidentally
@@wrosebrock that is interesting
He left his wallet with thousands of bucks.
Not sure why he'd sacrifice that when already in debt and needs every single cent he could scramble to use with a new identity.
The fact there wasmt evidence of bacteria that feed on dead bodies leads me to strongly believe he's not in the spring.
I can buy him being hidden and not found by humans but there would still be bacteria.
@@tyranidswarmlord9722it wasn't " thousands of bucks " in his car it was just over 1k.
It amazes me that people will ignore those warning signs they put up warning everyone of the dangers.
Saw somewhere, that in the psychological profile of daredevils...warnings are seen not as a warning, but a "challenge." Condemnation and negative feedback, is seen as positive "attention." They've got some screws loose.
I love how you take time to explain a bit of importance in the vast differences between open water and cave diving qualifications, but I would definitely say that becoming fully certified would likely take a lot longer than two months and require well over a hundred dives. In my experience, before even beginning any sort of cave specific training, divers spend many months or years to reach a high level of mastery in open water diving. This means logging hundreds of dives and/or earning the certifications to become master divers or even diver instructors. Only after those requirements are met is someone ready to begin technical dive training. Easily over 10 thousand dollars can be spent getting to this point in terms of gear costs and in the price of different certification courses.
Someone else said they did some research into Ben and he took cave diving lessons but kept quitting.
This is so sad. Thank you for covering these stories that shed further light on so many mysteries or disappearances .. it even lets others hear stories that they may have never heard before.
I personally am very saddened at these possible unfortunate accidents ...my belief = God knows exactly where these remains are...I pray they are in heaven 🙏 May God bless all involved with SAR and especially the loved ones left. Also, a huge God bless to the volunteers who make these very dangerous dives, etc, in hopes of finding the loved one. 🙏🐾🐣🕊
I understand that the parents were hurt but I really hope they understood that they caused a death by not listening to all the professionals.
No the man that CHOSE to go down made HIS OWN decision! That’s called Consequences! I have a feeling you’re Young(under 25)! As with age time and experience you will learn! People make their OWN choices! You do the Man a Diservice by saying he didn’t choose it! Had he found him? Hero! So to Every Reward there is a Risk! This one was Death! And sadly he Lost!
@@iamzuesthisisthetruth8864 Sounds like you're pretty young yourself. At 60, I can tell you that money also makes people do things they normally wouldn't do. But as you get older this is something you'll understand someday. You also contradicted yourself bigtime with your original comment about the reward. I'd probably quit while you're behind.
@@iamzuesthisisthetruth8864 Holy crap, bro, calm down. I have a feeling you're Young(under 12)! ...given your rude demeanor and bizarre use of caps and punctuation. Is this really worth insulting someone to you?
The man chose to take the risk *and* the parents ought to understand their part in creating the risk the man chose to take. Both are true statements. The OP never said otherwise. Why on earth are you yelling?
@@iamzuesthisisthetruth8864 his parents were throwing money around and claiming that the professionals were too "scared" to go and find the fool that decided to ignore all safety for some egotistical dream of becoming a top cave diver without any training. THEIR SON is the only one to blame and HIS PARENTS should go down there themselves if they want his body so badly. They threw money at the situation for others to risk their lives, they don't care about anyone but themselves.
Try calling the manager
Life going badly for you, to the point you end up in a dark place, is a hard thing to escape. Getting away from it all may help, but the realization that you’ll have to face it all again could end up dragging you down deeper. He was probably feeling good when he wrote the letter, but some time after that, remembered how bad off he was with the IRS and debt. Maybe he really did fake his death or maybe he just kept swimming down until death was his only option. Too deep for anyone else to potentially save him.
Not seen any comments regarding the fact that poor mental health doesn't only lead to suicide, but to increasingly poor decision making ability.
Presuming suicide due to his depression is putting 2 and 2 together to make 4½
I'd like to know what, if any, were the consequences of the two employees, who illegally unlocked the gate for Ben KNOWING he was unqualified to be there!!!?
There's a LOT that's "not right" about this, including the selfish/disrespectful actions of the parents!
Eh... I kinda have to let the parents off the hook here.... Their first son committed suicide and now here is the death of their only other child.... I can forgive any erratic or "selfish" behavior they might have displayed especially when they are not familiar with cave diving ect.
@thomaslove6494 I could be wrong but I think there were originally 3 brothers...one died of a stroke 2 years prior to Ben's disappearance. I believe the other is still living.
People always trying to blame someone else for their own actions. Here’s a thought, blame Ben
@@thomaslove6494 I wouldn't let them off the hook, since their actions apparently killed someone else.
@@michelledelecki6224the brother died of an overdose
Can I just say I really appreciate the new background music! Honestly, the old stuff was just doing my head in a bit, great choice on the new one!! :)
I agree.
I cannot stop watching your stories. This is a really great channel and done so well. You have a gift for story telling keeping us hooked. Clear voice with great pictures, makes the flow of the video work so well. Just love this channel my new binge go to! Thank you and keep them coming! ❤
i just came upon your channel after the whole Titan fiasco. you have made me realize my absolute terror and nightmare of deep water diving and being stuck underwater. Thanks. luv
I’ve become addicted to your voice and speaking cadence along with the ominous music you use. When I watch other interesting videos I always think to myself “this would be so much better if it was being told over at Scary Interesting.” While I’m arting I just choose which playlist of yours to put on for moody ambience. I swear, if you had a 5-days-a-week podcast I’d be addicted to that as well. Matter of fact- please consider starting a podcast. 😁
Ed Sorensen is an absolute blessing to the diving community
A nice find indeed , .. you're channel is great , I'am intrigued by the stories . I followed the Ben McDaniel story on Spotify , and i ended up finding this channel .
This story is what got me into this sort of stuff, waaaaay back when it was on an episode of Disappeared. I was really young at that time, and this story is still fascinating. All stories where people just seem to vanish are.
I was always fascinated by these types of stories too. But I've also lived in one recently. I lost my brother to an accident....his vehicle went into a lake by the dam near where we live last year. His car was recovered and after having the highway shut down for a day, the dam pressures dropped and several dives, and even more searches by land for miles along the rivers, he's never been found.
Living in one of these stories is difficult, I miss my brother every day and can't stand to go anywhere near that lake or river.
@@sassycass790i am sorry for your loss… i believe disappearances are not a commodity for us to enjoy but a tragedy for us to acknowledge. i hope one day you receive closure
Almost 500k!? Awesome job man I love seeing your channel grow. I hope you don’t change when you start hitting the 3-5 million sub
This was such a particularly interesting story, as it was so much more than your typical "dive gone wrong" tale. Excellent choice, and as always, you did a fantastic job!
I just wanted to say that I recently found your channel and I been binge watching your videos all evening! Love your content, even though it gives me anxiety! 😂
WOW! 500k!! Congratulations 🎊🎉🥳 You definitely deserve it Sean! Excited to keep watching your channel grow!
You know these parents of his, let me just say when Edd Sorensen can't find your son in a cave, NO ONE ELSE will. It bugs me that they used their wealth to tempt people into deadly situations because _their_ closure is worth more than someone else's life. And they got someone killed, they really did. I trust Edd on this. I hope the family of that guy sued these parents. That diver is their victim, his family and friends are victims but they're all just sidenotes in some rich kid's story.
preach!
This is also a family who started a foundation to help stroke victims and their families, and perhaps shouldn't be judged so harshly. At that point it wasn't even clear if that's how their son died - they just wanted to find him and bring him home, dead or alive. They didn't "get someone killed", they offered a reward for anyone who could find him as many families do, even for pets. You can't sue someone because your family member willingly and with informed consent chose to take a risk.
Until you have lost two children, it's best not to comment.
I don't understand why people need a body when it's obvious af what happened. All the conspiracy theories are idiotic. Searching for people/things is incredibly difficult and things get missed all the time, there are countless examples of this. If you've ever searched for something in your own house you know this ffs. eg. the case of the missing woman who fell in the river in the UK recently. They searched for weeks and she was then found just upstream. They searched for Russian Princess Anastasia's body for decades and then found it buried not far from the rest of the family. People who think you can easily and conclusively search a whole caving system for a dead body should try it some time.
Reminds me of these "metoo" bitches. "I made a deal, knew the risks, wasn't scammed but didn't like the outcome so it's GOTTA be someone else's fault, right?"
By that logic, we should all be given refunds on food we fully finished by claiming we "didn't like it", right?
@@jesspavlichenko5745 I think you misunderstand who Ed is...he's a superman. There is nobody on Earth superior in what he does. If he says it's not safe to go deeper - it's Gospel Truth. Putting a bounty on finding a body after that point - is the pinnacle of selfishness. It _guarantees_ that whomever next tries it - will be unqualified. Set up to fail - and most likely, to die.
(I don't care what the family has "been through" - this is wrong.)
I’m in love with this channel. Time to binge every episode
I’ve been in both Vortex and nearby Morrison springs. That’s where I completed my advanced open water decades ago. Cave diving is no joke. I remember that sign and the gate on Vortex well. Eerie stuff.
Vortex is only about 45 mins from me. Creepy place. Couldn't stand it 😆
Gosh the new music in the background is hauntingly calm and melancholy, I love it! But this was a hard video to listen to knowing that those parents have lived through the sudden loss of two children from completely different scenarios. Devastating even to imagine
Devastating to the parents, sure. But the cause of their son's deaths were completely due to their son's own idiocy.
Well lucky you, then. He recycles that same looped 5-10 second music clip in dozens of 10-20 minute videos. You'll get to hear it a lot.
As a teenager back in the eighties, before a gate was installed at the entrance, I used to dive Vortex alone and without cave diving training or the correct gear. Pushed my luck too far once and almost lost my life there. The gate installation has probably saved more than a few lives.
New sub and really enjoying your videos thank you, although they are sad cases unfortunately 😢❤️
More like this, please ! Everyone loves a good mystery, and I'm sure there's more stories out like this one , and we need to hear about them ! People disappear all the time and are never found .
Ive been alive for a couple of decades, and I can say with ease of mind that I have absolutely *no* need to go spelunking, let alone cave diving, and I will *never* have a need to lol
I want to but thankfully I'm too scared to lol.
Congrats on 500k!!
I truly think he got lost in the cave and died in a small crevice hard to get to. I feel so bad for his parents who really don't think he would have done this on purpose.
I feel so sorry for his parents. They have lost two sons. No parent should have to go through that.
1 od's and the other deleted himself swimming...
I bet it wasn't a happy home. Mom and day were monsters
Sounds like both sons had an addictive personality. One to drugs, one to risky cave diving.
Cautionary tale.
Wonder what was going on in that family to have 2 messed up sons. Sounds like they all had a lot of money too. Risky behavior funded by parents.
Kind of sounds like Ben drown and the guys that unlocked the gate for him found him and removed him to keep from getting into trouble for unlocking the gate
Except the scent dogs the cops used would have found a trail where his body was removed from the water. No way they can fool a dogs nose like that
@@JS-wp4gs Even if he was completely soaked in water and not decomposing? I haven't looked into search dogs or their methods so I'm just curious.
@@intercoursehandguns851 yes the dogs would be able to pick up on scent regardless. Water doesn't do much to throw a scent.
Definitely not what happened. That's just the dramatic version of events that you want to be true. How exactly did they hide the body - pretty much imposible for them to do that? They also didn't do a great job at covering anything up as they left his car in the parking lot and everybody is just assuming he died in the cave anyway, which is exactly not what they would have wanted.
@@David-ud9juLots of classic middle-class moral panic about foul play is in a lot of people's speculations. The criminal records of any of the workers is basically irrelevant considering they called the cops and did everything to help get Ben out. People just like a good scoop and "crime wave" scare to give them something to fill their minds with.
This is actually gut-wrenching to me, what a horrible death! I'm so sad for him and his family, and the poor man who was foolish enough to try for the bounty on his body!
I feel like no matter how many bad events one goes through, they would at least confide in their girlfriend or parents.. we will never really know what happened down there
Yeah, dude either got killed or committed suicide
babe wake up scary interesting just uploaded
Babe. WTF?? I JUST nodded off.
This sign was well-made but there will always be people overestimating their skills
Yeah, like 95% of the planet.
Most people laugh it of as a joke.
That is idiocy.
It's natural selection at that point
When I first saw a picture of that sign I laughed. They really put a grim reaper on it lol. Dramatic much? Dying in caves is extremely rare. It's safer to cave dive than it is to drive. There is no reaper on every car.
I used to be someone tough who keeps everything bottled up. I try to carry everything because I was the only person my parents relied on during the pandemic. Eventually the pressure from all this along with the stress from having debt was too much and it broke me. During the day when I tried to commit suicide, I kept reassuring my parents that everything will be alright and we will get through everything eventually.
What I'm saying with my story is someone who have suicidal thoughts or depression can keep a bold and positive face even though deep inside they are thoroughly broken. The theory of Ben faking his death to start a new life, while looking unlikely in the surface still hold grounds. He might genuinely having a good time but then he realized that everything is just temporary and his past failure might come in and bite him in the end so he just decided to try and escape everything and start a new life somewhere else.
I just wanted to say i love these videos, but i love the comments of everyone even more, there are SO MANY interesting people out there and I love coming to comment section, in my own timing, and reading all the thought provoking opinions.😊
Ben leaving a note to his parents seems to preclude his understanding of the possibility he may never return to them. Even though the note promises to take care of them, to me it points to suicide or faking his death.
Also why did the driver people decide not to wait for him ON the day they decided to let him enter the cave system? Seems suspicious
Yeah the whole "that day they were particularly busy to wait for him" part does seem suspicious in hind sight now.
I love your channel and never miss a new post! Thank you for all the work you put into these videos. They're super interesting and fun to watch! Good luck and please keep up the great work!!!
Mystery creek cave tragedy where students and a teacher drowned. My wife was a student at Taroona High school in Tasmania Australia. It was horrible as the teacher who lead the group survived the incident but later took his own life as a result of guilt! Might be a good story for you to do
Amazing, very interesting video, you got a new subscriber, keep up with the good content
Thank you for doing this story in depth, it's been one that tho I'm not a diver at all, I have just wanted to learn more about and you brought the information perfect..love the channel!!!
Very strange that the response to the dive shop owner injuring himself is to stick him in a bathtub and leave him.
That was bizarre!
You must be young lol. Back then we didn't go to the hospital over every scrape and cut like this new generation. We toughed it out. Sweat it out.
@@makokenji4350 A head injury isn't a "scrape and cut", and clearly toughing it out didn't work out well did it? It should of been common knowledge to take someone to the hospital after a bad head injury.
But besides all that why put him in a bathtub instead of his bed? That's suspicious!
This story and your story telling is captivating.
Thanks!
Hey Vicki! Thanks so much for watching and supporting the channel!
The letter he wrote to his parents sounds a bit odd on the surface, which nudges me more towards the suicide or self-disappearance theories. Just seems like an random thing to bring up unless you were contemplating serious matters like death or starting fresh.
Quality vid as always Sean 👍, intriguing mystery for sure, hopefully it will be solved one day
Look how far you have come my dude! I remember you at 20k subs!
Hey, a new and interesting channel that I'm most likely gonna binge watch all the videos of and then become another fan.
I had never heard this story before, it is quite a mystery. I greatly enjoy your cave diving stories, I don't know why other people are complaining about them. If someone doesn't want to watch cave diving videos, they are free to skip them. I don't watch every video that everyone I subscribe to puts out, not enough time in the day. But I have watched all your cave diving videos, hey are excellent.
it's weird and sad hearing so many resources be poured into finding this one guy. not just because they turned up nothing but also because so many other missing stories don't have that benefit.
I been away from your channel for a few months , I notice the newer fonts on the screen with the names , locations , times etc, its a nice choice and style 👌
The letter he wrote to his parents sounds more like something a suicidal person would do, or maybe someone planning to dissapear, than to something a coping functional person would do. The amount of time he spent studying and mapping the cave is also shady. Maybe the dude just went down there to die and knowing he wasn't planning on coming back, he just kept going so far no one planning to come back alive can find him.
Congratz on the sponsorship! Thanks for the video. Always interesting.