It has been pointed out that Groom contains solvents and is toxic to inhale. Yes - this is the case. Therefore stand back when using and leave the window open as a precaution. I rarely clean LPs so doubt if it is an issue for me but I would not recommend this method for regular use. Bear in mind this product has passed UK safety standards and is used by people inside their cars.
thanks for adding the information about the solvents in this product., which given the safety instructions , I assume would be petroleum based and unsuitable for cleaning any kind of vinyl micro information. it's not my business how one might enjoy or care for another's record collection, but I advise caution. lower surface noise is a nice result, but not at the expense of record detail, if the long term goal is to have a high resolution playback system and suitable old records.
@@richardelliott8352 Your claim that this method degrades vinyl playback is unproven. I have been listening to LPs for decades and using this method and played a cleaned LP vs a non cleaned - same LP - could detect no difference and did blind tests with audiophiles who could distinguish no difference. I used an LP that had been cleaned 2 years previous so there was sufficient time for any such degradation to occur. I have no hesitation in recommending this product.
@richardelliott8352 lower surface noise as the record is coated. The needle over time will remove the inadvertently applied coating, noise back. Check also the reduced timbre of the cleaned record. Lots of information on our CZcams channel.
@LPCLASSICAL Only using a thermal vac chamber allows one to accelerate aging. Some of your followers have rightly so made remarks as to chemistry and affectation to not only record health, but what a needle would be picking up. If your solution was designed for records, it would be stated as such.
Hello Stuart, I used to end up with mineral deposits from my tap water as well. Now I do this: I fill a spray bottle fitted w/a high pressure nozzle with distilled water. After I wash my records and rinse them off in the sink right under the tap, I then spray them down w/the distilled water in the bottle as a final step before drying. I no longer get mineral deposits, and the amount of distilled water I use is minimal. I'm on my 3rd gallon of distilled water, and I've cleaned about 175 to 200 records so far.
@@Paul-Carson No, sorry. Let me first clarify that by a high pressure nozzle, I don't mean a nozzle with the pressure of a firehose. A nozzle which provides a wide spray w/ 4x more pressure than a nozzle that comes with a bottle of windex will do. Any good garden supply store should have them. I'm in the US, so any Lowe's, Home Depot, or Agway will have them, and you should be able to order online from them if you prefer.
Amazing! I bought a few job lot of dj records from 90s/00s, you can imagine a lot of them are sticky, covered in drinks and dirt.. i used your instructions and they now are 100%. no crackles even on the intro grooves! Thanks, i have sent this info on to other fellow djs.
My personal favorite method to clean records is of course with shaving cream. All you need is some good shaving cream, particularly the gel stuff with menthol, I find that works the best. Anyway lather your record up real good with the shaving cream and then get yourself a Schick Quattro razor, the one with four blades. I think in the UK you guys don't have that brand but I know you guys have Wilkinson sword and just get one of their multi-blade razors. Anyway after you've got your record nice and lathered up take your four blade or five blade razor and slowly and carefully and methodically go across the grain of the record. Now when you first do it you'll find there's a bit of a resistance but persist with the endeavor and you'll find your records are not only super clean but super smooth.😊
@@matthewtaylor7355 use a shaving brush to apply the gel. It gets it deep into the grooves. And don't forget the post shave soothing balm. Apply liberally.
@@LPCLASSICAL you could use that in a disco antistat probably work very well and then rinsing afterwards with dionised water. Maybe should try ad-blue I use that with my little jet thing it is very pure industratively pure has to be you could use that as a rinse after the vinyl cleaner
Sounds good I might have to give that a go I mean it is a vinyl cleaner so make sense😉 I made my own machine using a water jet toothpick and a stylus to track the grooves it works very well, the only issue it splashes so you need to cover so just put it in the sink and put a cover tupperware container on the top it's like jet washing your record.
Maybe a bit off topic, but if static ever becomes a problem I can highly recommend a £5 plasma lighter (the one with a bendy neck on ebay/ amazon). It works a charm, there are other videos on YT highlighting this method
I can absolutely hear a big difference, well done! I have a feeling you will be positively flame roasted in certain vinyl circles for applying such a chemical but in my opinion if the solution worked and you were not going to listen to the record otherwise the ends justify the means. As long as you can get all the residue off this appears to be a great solution for those tricky records. I'm on the lookout for a something similar.
Where is their evidence that my method in any way degrades the record? The proof is in the result. I know there will be claims that the stylus is contaminated - claims are one thing - evidence is another.
@@VinylBliss I hope always for best results, but short term results are sometime different from long term needs. just consider a drag racer who will consume parts to win a race, while the daily driver car is maintained with much different goals in mind.
There are always going to be debates back and forth on cleaning your vinyl, whether you are a vinyl collector for 3 years of 30 years. I have several philosophies on vinyl in general. #1) Distilled water and simple wipe downs with non-abrasive clothes, sponges, soft brushes will solve 95% of any surface noise, clicks, pops. As you stated, damage is damage is groove damage, deep groove scratches like the ones you can feel and make a record unplayable and warps of course. #2.) Records are the product of their environment and owner at the end of the day, and by that I mean how you sleeve your records, where they are stored or shelved and of course environmental factors like mold getting onto records in humid environments. For point #2, the easier your cleaning method is and less tedious and cumbersome, the better....especially if you have a large collection of vinyl. If a cleaning machine is involved, how often would say 2000 records need to be cleaned again with the machine approach? 6 months later, or only when ready to listen to a particular record? Final Thought, records are both durable and fragile in their own way, and with any cleaning approach, nothing applied to a record to clean it, should ever be left behind on the records surface, like the day it was pressed (minus the dust)
I encounter few records that need my admittedly laborious process for cleaning. My policy is to avoid cleaning unless necessary. Most of us can live with occasional surface issues. However - as a pro reseller I like to send out vinyl to buyers as good as it can be so will use this cleaning method and be more critical than for my own listening. The ebay seller that sent out that Fournier record is not a pro - otherwise he would have checked that LP and not graded it EX or he would have done the cleaning process as I did.
As any technology matures, unproductive paths to results are discarded and made obsolete . I think this shows clearly with the many record cleaning methods around that are now made largely unsatisfactory buy the more costly ultrasonic cleaning now possible. much like car tires are now all steel belted radial construction , and in the past had many different design answers to the same problem.
I’ve always used distilled water and a few drops of dawn dishwashing soap in a small spray bottle. Often I have wondered if the soap might leave residue in the grooves. This is interesting and do you have any opinions on that particular brand of upholstery cleaner as opposed to others. I live in the USA and haven’t seen Groom brand before. New sub here as well. Great content sir.
I’ve done the Titebond II wood glue method, and as long as you put a thick layer on it works great. I’d be concerned about any chemical reactions with various upholstery cleaning solvents used with the method above. We don’t have that product here in the US, but how does he know if he’s creating a harmful vapor? He doesn’t.
The product complies with UK safety standards. Good point though about toxicity. People use this in their cars and there seems to be no evidence of users dying from solvent poisoning.
@@LPCLASSICAL that people are not dying is a pretty low bar when considering safe application to micro information pressed into vinyl . The glue mentioned is water based, so although not something I would do everyday, would not affect the molecular bonds of the vinyl. And as anyone who had investigated how record playback works, those molecular bonds are essential to playback.
Bob - I used dishwasher detergent the type you put in a dishwasher as an experiment. Originally wrote dishwasher liquid in error and have updated my post. I have not had record destroying results with liquid dish washing cleaning liquid such as dawn. Dish detergent in the amount I used silenced the record but destroyed the highs.
If you want Bob to read your reply you should actually reply to his comment by going to his post and clicking reply. I have not noticed any degradation in any frequency range when using my method.
@@TrueStereo- Yeah, I may have used a more "colorful" adjective in place of "nonsense". Apparently the CZcams goon squad found it objectionable, and blocked my original reply to your post. I did see your reply to my edited "PG" statement though. All good!
@@LPCLASSICAL very little though and highly diluted very mild only a few Drops in cup water!. been using for over 50 years got massive record collection all in A1 condition!..
@@LPCLASSICALUnderstanding Vinyl Surface Noise.. FYI.. Pops: These are caused by organic, vinyl, and/or metallic particles trapped in the groove wall. Proper cleaning can remove all but the most deeply imbedded of the pops. Clicks: These are caused by scratches in the vinyl. Nothing is going to repair a scratch. Crackles: The rice crispy sound that can be a constant throughout the record or very sporadic. I assume that more often than not this is caused by groove damage? Static: A steady sound that doesn't really crackle but is more of a distortion noise. Is this groove damage or particles/dirt in the groove? Sitting On Top Noise: Sometimes surface noise seems to ride on top the music and this is the most distracting. These records are the ones most likely to get discarded if cleaning doesn't make a major improvement. Down On The Floor Noise: Sometimes surface noise seems to sit in the background and even if it is there the whole time it is much less of a distraction and is more easily ignored. These records are very aggravating when they are new records and easily forgiven when they are crate digging finds. Proper cleaning can vastly improve these issues, but in some cases no amount of clean is going to make one iota of differences. Also a worn or dirty stylus needle will cause noise problem and loss quality see link.. turntablemax.com/turntable-stylus-worn-symptoms/
@@AlesAndBluesGuy you touched on everything except the vinyl formulation itself. some recordings aimed at collectors use specific vinyl formulations that are quieter than others.
I have several records that have calcium carbonate impeded in the grooves I have ddp cleaned then run in a ultrasonic cleaner and still has much of it in grooves should I try using white vinegar with distilled water soak and scub?
@@pudintain9656 I learned my lesson that not everybody with a camera and a CZcams account is someone to take advice from when researching car repairs, where what would usually be discarded as unproven gossip is passed on as good information, because content is needed for clicks. You might be surprised at how many people with a corvette such as mine are now running around town with their Air cleaners mounted backwards like idiots, because of an unproven , and nonsensical internet "hot performance tip"
@@LPCLASSICAL I've only had issues with the ink running with one record company that uses a red label. It may have been RCA Red Seal, but I think it was actually from Mercury Living Presence. As a solution, two 4 inch diameter locking suction cups with release handles work great. They're commonly used to move large panes of glass, and remove dents from cars They just cover the label, and stop at end of the runout groove. They won't touch the inner recorded groove of your record. They're kind of clutzy to use, so I don't bother with them anymore. Also, almost all record labels are waterproof, but I did have an issue with that one company's labels.
I'll have to try this next time I need to clean records. One question, what would be the American equivalent of Groom? I'd guess there has to be something similar on the market here in the States.....
Do you destroy all the labels? If not, how do you protect them? Also, I presume you just pour distilled water over the record to rinse off the cleaner? And I cannot find this product for sale here in the U.S.A. Anyone know of a substitute?
What a mess! What labor intensive work for 1 record!! It’s got to leave a slimy film on the vinyl Why do you spray so much on one side??? I use a Hummiguru with distilled water and it’s easy no mess and does a fantastic job
So you spent £300 on a cleaning machine. Good for you. My solution is much cheaper. 1 x can of Groom will last years and is less than £10. No it does not have to leave a slimy film and does not.
@@LPCLASSICAL if low cost is your primary objective, your record cleaning goals are very different than mine, which is sensible record preservation . I would never advise wasting money, but I also don't ride a skateboard to the market even though maintenance is much cheaper than with a car. I think the point well taken, that record cleaning has advanced to where ultrasonic cleaning has made many approaches obsolete.
@@richardelliott8352 Frankly I do not believe ultra sound cleaning can get sticky encrusted grime from the grooves. Groom does the ultimate job and cheaper.
Interesting but watch the high frequencies. I used dishwasher detergent the type you put in a dishwasher as an experiment. Stopped pops and surface noise but took out high freq a bit.
This is total bullshit!. I've been washing my records, including expensive audiophile, as well as rare collectable original pressings w/dishwasher liquid, and Dawn dish soap for over 30 yrs. The process never resulted in frequency loss, or any other issues whatsoever. You're spreading typical misinformation that unfortunately gets posted, read, and then believed by gullible neophytes seeking guidance on online forums, youtube and the like. Maybe you have buildup on your stylus. When was the last time you inspected your stylus w/magnification, and good lighting? When was the last time you cleaned your stylus?
This is utter nonsense! I've been cleaning my records, including expensive audiophile, and rare collectable 1st pressings w/dishwasher liquid as well as Dawn dish soap for over 30 years. Never has this process resulted in frequency loss, or any other issues. Unfortunately this is typical of the misinformation posted on audio forums, youtube and the like, then read, and believed by gullible neophytes. If you're losing high frequencies, then maybe you aren't rinsing your vinyl well enough, and you have crud built up on your stylus. Wen was the last time you inspected your stylus with magnification, and good lighting? When was the last time you cleaned your stylus?
@@bobmclaughlin3851 Bob - I used dishwasher detergent the type you put in a dishwasher as an experiment. Originally wrote dishwasher liquid in error and have updated my post. I have not had record destroying results with liquid dish washing cleaning liquid such as dawn. Dish detergent in the amount I used silenced the record but destroyed the highs.
I have made many people very angry. I have just under 4,000 LPs. I have been collecting at garage sales but also at good retail stores (before EBay began) and EBay from about 2009 on (a friend having a very bad experience has caused me to avoid Discogs) for 45 years. I don't purchase any LP that has any scratches or evidence of "mold". All my collection is VG+ or better. I use the same sponge that you do. I use very hot tap water and soak the sponge side (yes, I avoid the other side as you do) and add a good dose of Ivory Liquid. I hold the record under the tap and go around the record with the sponge (following the grooves) about 3 or 4 times, rinse then turn it over and repeat. I have two very fluffy absorbent towels on the table next to where I am cleaning. I finish by plopping the record down on the first towel, spin it with the palm of my hand on the label and turn over. I then transfer the record to the second towel and repeat. I then stand the record on its side in my listening room and let it finish air drying for an hour or two. It actually gets very dry from the process of the two towels, but I insure it with the additional air-dry step. I have cleaned unlistenable albums (due to dirt - you are correct - you cannot correct actual "groove" damage) and they are transformed. People cannot believe this works, but it does. After about 3 LPs, you need to rinse the sponge out repeatedly to get all the dirty residue out before you resoap and then can do about 2 or 3 more. Wash, rinse, dry, clean sponge as many times as necessary. Of course, if the towels get damp from the drying (about 9 LPs), get dry towels. I don't really give a hoot whether people believe me or not. I invite them to pick any LP out of my collection and then amaze them on either my Linn or Thorens.
That sounds ok. I have used washing up liquid in the past and had good results. I just find this Groom totally dissolves off any grime in the grooves but if that works for you that is good enough.
Believe it or not, a light coating of WD40 is also beneficial once the disc is elean. It reduces surface noise. Also DO NOT use a sponge, too rough. Use a yellow duster instead.
No, no, no, over time it will wreck your cartridge as minute amounts of wd40 creep up the cantilever and into the body of the cartridge! This is especially a nightmare if you have an expensive mc cartridge. As everyone has no doubt experienced, wd40 has an amazing ability to spread across surfaces.
@@fusionfan6883 also consider that as the needle passes with about 20 tons per square inch of pressure, the frictional heat causes the vinyl bonds to separate, and then as the heat event passes, instantly reform into the molecular lattice achieved when the vinyl was first pressed . Any contamination will degrade the ability of the molecular lattice to reform back into the original structure. So the record will also be harmed as the vinyl becomes contaminated with other molecules than do not have the same " memory" characteristics as record vinyl, such as a liquid , which retains no shape
@@LPCLASSICAL most collectors shun alcohol based cleaners , because of potential effects of the known petroleum solvent. Some sellers, on the other hand , use a light household oil on a rag , because of the quick results and the resultant desirable shine.
As long as I am pointing out errors, a good record cleaning machine is more than just a vacuum, as the presenter here supposes. . while it does move air, a correctly designed machine will have a velocity of air flow designed to not be so fast as to accelerate the lighter water molecules so quickly that some heavier molecules separate out of suspension and are left behind , as if the record had been air dried.
Sorry, but because of the video quality, I can't quite make out the full exact name of the cleaner. Groom auto upholstery cleaner? Also, since I'm in the states, will any upholstery cleaner do, or does this have special ingredients?
Yes - Groom. Not sure if it is available in the USA but if you go into your auto shop and ask for upholstery cleaner it is probably going to be similar. The main ingredients are benzyl alcohol - also aliphatic hydrocarbons.
@@LPCLASSICAL Why look for trouble . using known vinyl solvents might be easy and cheap, but it doesn't align with my goals, as long as one is buying cleaning product, why not buy a specifically designed record cleaning product, so your records will be useful to another when you kick off , because record playback quality increases over time. And records that might be suitable for your needs today , might not make the cut as playback performance increases in the future, and then the records just become more landfill . . A model "T" was fine for the performance of the time , but is unable to keep up with modern traffic today. this consideration might also apply if, like myself, system playback quality has increased over a lifetime , to where my old man system has evolved to be very sensitive and has an ability to resolve information my old stuff couldn't touch.
Never use anything on a record before checking the ingredients listed against the PVC and Plasticizer Chemical Compatability chart. No ingredients listed, do not use. Wetting the label?
been using this for 30 years and never had any problems. Labels whetted dry - once dry they are fine. No degredation. I have thoroughly tested this process and stand by it.
Noted your experience. We have seen many lay people without any common sense destroy over time records. Records are fragile and plasticizers as well as pvc may be affected over time once a cleaning agent was used. Initial results could have been fine at the onset. To limit liability, in addition to checking the ingredients of any cleaning solution used, accessing a thermal chamber to do accelerated ageing is recommended.
The best you could do is urge caution. Neither of us have any actual trials on any of these products. Just anecdotal evidence which does not count for much. I rarely use this method - only when other methods have failed - and the record would be thrown away otherwise.
@LPCLASSICAL we have spent 12 years using a Keyence VHX 7000 microscope, spectrum and audio analyzers, with an environmental enclosure to accelerate aging. Check out our discoveries... We are invited to speak globally on record groove restoration versus cleaning and shining.
OK - so you developed an ultra sound cleaner you are selling for $1500 USD. Personally I think my can of groom does a better job for a fraction of the cost but good luck with your product.
First off, your speaker placement is awful. Not sure how you expect to achieve proper soundstaging. Secondly, one would think you were reporting on a major news story, with the headset and boom mic. It’s listening to music, not sending humans to Mars. That Rega cartridge is an insanely overpriced AT-3600 with the Rega name slapped onto it. And finally, what works for you may not work for others.
The cartridge came ready fitted. It seems to sell for about £25 inc stylus. I usè the headset as the mic works well. Ok I could spend £120 on a pro mic. For the speakers I live in a small flat and mostly listen when working at my laptop. I dont need great soundstaging just refined sound.
It has been pointed out that Groom contains solvents and is toxic to inhale. Yes - this is the case. Therefore stand back when using and leave the window open as a precaution. I rarely clean LPs so doubt if it is an issue for me but I would not recommend this method for regular use. Bear in mind this product has passed UK safety standards and is used by people inside their cars.
thanks for adding the information about the solvents in this product., which given the safety instructions , I assume would be petroleum based and unsuitable for cleaning any kind of vinyl micro information. it's not my business how one might enjoy or care for another's record collection, but I advise caution. lower surface noise is a nice result, but not at the expense of record detail, if the long term goal is to have a high resolution playback system and suitable old records.
@@richardelliott8352 Your claim that this method degrades vinyl playback is unproven. I have been listening to LPs for decades and using this method and played a cleaned LP vs a non cleaned - same LP - could detect no difference and did blind tests with audiophiles who could distinguish no difference. I used an LP that had been cleaned 2 years previous so there was sufficient time for any such degradation to occur. I have no hesitation in recommending this product.
@richardelliott8352 lower surface noise as the record is coated. The needle over time will remove the inadvertently applied coating, noise back. Check also the reduced timbre of the cleaned record.
Lots of information on our CZcams channel.
@LPCLASSICAL Only using a thermal vac chamber allows one to accelerate aging.
Some of your followers have rightly so made remarks as to chemistry and affectation to not only record health, but what a needle would be picking up.
If your solution was designed for records, it would be stated as such.
Hello Stuart, I used to end up with mineral deposits from my tap water as well. Now I do this: I fill a spray bottle fitted w/a high pressure nozzle with distilled water. After I wash my records and rinse them off in the sink right under the tap, I then spray them down w/the distilled water in the bottle as a final step before drying. I no longer get mineral deposits, and the amount of distilled water I use is minimal. I'm on my 3rd gallon of distilled water, and I've cleaned about 175 to 200 records so far.
Ah. Good tip. Yes - will do that. The filtered water does not seem to be leaving any residues but yes distilled water is the best for a final rinse.
@@LPCLASSICAL The high pressure nozzle really does a great job of getting any residue off of the vinyl while using the distilled water very sparingly.
Do you have a link to one on Amazon like you use for high pressure spray bottle ?
@@Paul-Carson No, sorry. Let me first clarify that by a high pressure nozzle, I don't mean a nozzle with the pressure of a firehose. A nozzle which provides a wide spray w/ 4x more pressure than a nozzle that comes with a bottle of windex will do. Any good garden supply store should have them. I'm in the US, so any Lowe's, Home Depot, or Agway will have them, and you should be able to order online from them if you prefer.
@@bobmclaughlin3851 is it a pump bottle type you use? Pump that bottle to get high pressure?
Songs From the Big Chair (upholstery) sounds even better now.
Amazing! I bought a few job lot of dj records from 90s/00s, you can imagine a lot of them are sticky, covered in drinks and dirt.. i used your instructions and they now are 100%. no crackles even on the intro grooves! Thanks, i have sent this info on to other fellow djs.
Thanks. Glad it worked for you. Take care to avoid breathing in. Stand well back and use a ventilated room.
@@LPCLASSICAL did about 6 records before opening the window ;) I'll know next time. Thanks.
Ambersil actually also produce an "Anti-static foam cleaner" which is what I have been using for years with similar often amazing results!!
My personal favorite method to clean records is of course with shaving cream. All you need is some good shaving cream, particularly the gel stuff with menthol, I find that works the best. Anyway lather your record up real good with the shaving cream and then get yourself a Schick Quattro razor, the one with four blades. I think in the UK you guys don't have that brand but I know you guys have Wilkinson sword and just get one of their multi-blade razors.
Anyway after you've got your record nice and lathered up take your four blade or five blade razor and slowly and carefully and methodically go across the grain of the record. Now when you first do it you'll find there's a bit of a resistance but persist with the endeavor and you'll find your records are not only super clean but super smooth.😊
Do u use a branded shaving foam or will a generic 1 do??
@@matthewtaylor7355 use a shaving brush to apply the gel. It gets it deep into the grooves. And don't forget the post shave soothing balm. Apply liberally.
I believe methanol can attack PVC it's not the right alcohol
@@garyizzard839 Then a quick splash of Brut 33? 🤣
@@Gsmiler naturally. On new records it stings a bit.
This dude is insane. Do not put upholstery cleaner on your vinyl. He sprayed it all over the label. WTF???!!! People use your brain.
He tried his VIP. Unfortunately he lacks a VPI.
Never had any label damage using this method. If label damage ocurred I would obviously not be using this cleaner.
@-x21- The VPI could never get all the residue off. Water rinsing and then natural drying is the best method.
@@LPCLASSICAL you could use that in a disco antistat probably work very well and then rinsing afterwards with dionised water. Maybe should try ad-blue I use that with my little jet thing it is very pure industratively pure has to be you could use that as a rinse after the vinyl cleaner
Sounds good I might have to give that a go I mean it is a vinyl cleaner so make sense😉 I made my own machine using a water jet toothpick and a stylus to track the grooves it works very well, the only issue it splashes so you need to cover so just put it in the sink and put a cover tupperware container on the top it's like jet washing your record.
Maybe a bit off topic, but if static ever becomes a problem I can highly recommend a £5 plasma lighter (the one with a bendy neck on ebay/ amazon). It works a charm, there are other videos on YT highlighting this method
I can absolutely hear a big difference, well done! I have a feeling you will be positively flame roasted in certain vinyl circles for applying such a chemical but in my opinion if the solution worked and you were not going to listen to the record otherwise the ends justify the means. As long as you can get all the residue off this appears to be a great solution for those tricky records. I'm on the lookout for a something similar.
Where is their evidence that my method in any way degrades the record? The proof is in the result. I know there will be claims that the stylus is contaminated - claims are one thing - evidence is another.
@@LPCLASSICAL true indeed, the results speak for themselves.
@@VinylBliss I hope always for best results, but short term results are sometime different from long term needs. just consider a drag racer who will consume parts to win a race, while the daily driver car is maintained with much different goals in mind.
Wow you could actually hear the difference, no pop up noise no static
Miraculous difference.
I use a mains powered dust blower to dry my records after cleaning them.
good tip.
I've had good results with washing up liquid and the hot tap. Just make sure there's no grit in any of your cloths
Impressive! Seems to have worked very well!
There are always going to be debates back and forth on cleaning your vinyl, whether you are a vinyl collector for 3 years of 30 years. I have several philosophies on vinyl in general. #1) Distilled water and simple wipe downs with non-abrasive clothes, sponges, soft brushes will solve 95% of any surface noise, clicks, pops. As you stated, damage is damage is groove damage, deep groove scratches like the ones you can feel and make a record unplayable and warps of course. #2.) Records are the product of their environment and owner at the end of the day, and by that I mean how you sleeve your records, where they are stored or shelved and of course environmental factors like mold getting onto records in humid environments. For point #2, the easier your cleaning method is and less tedious and cumbersome, the better....especially if you have a large collection of vinyl. If a cleaning machine is involved, how often would say 2000 records need to be cleaned again with the machine approach? 6 months later, or only when ready to listen to a particular record? Final Thought, records are both durable and fragile in their own way, and with any cleaning approach, nothing applied to a record to clean it, should ever be left behind on the records surface, like the day it was pressed (minus the dust)
I encounter few records that need my admittedly laborious process for cleaning. My policy is to avoid cleaning unless necessary. Most of us can live with occasional surface issues.
However - as a pro reseller I like to send out vinyl to buyers as good as it can be so will use this cleaning method and be more critical than for my own listening. The ebay seller that sent out that Fournier record is not a pro - otherwise he would have checked that LP and not graded it EX or he would have done the cleaning process as I did.
As any technology matures, unproductive paths to results are discarded and made obsolete . I think this shows clearly with the many record cleaning methods around that are now made largely unsatisfactory buy the more costly ultrasonic cleaning now possible. much like car tires are now all steel belted radial construction , and in the past had many different design answers to the same problem.
I’ve always used distilled water and a few drops of dawn dishwashing soap in a small spray bottle. Often I have wondered if the soap might leave residue in the grooves. This is interesting and do you have any opinions on that particular brand of upholstery cleaner as opposed to others. I live in the USA and haven’t seen Groom brand before. New sub here as well. Great content sir.
I’ve done the Titebond II wood glue method, and as long as you put a thick layer on it works great. I’d be concerned about any chemical reactions with various upholstery cleaning solvents used with the method above. We don’t have that product here in the US, but how does he know if he’s creating a harmful vapor? He doesn’t.
The product complies with UK safety standards. Good point though about toxicity. People use this in their cars and there seems to be no evidence of users dying from solvent poisoning.
@@LPCLASSICAL that people are not dying is a pretty low bar when considering safe application to micro information pressed into vinyl . The glue mentioned is water based, so although not something I would do everyday, would not affect the molecular bonds of the vinyl. And as anyone who had investigated how record playback works, those molecular bonds are essential to playback.
Bob - I used dishwasher detergent the type you put in a dishwasher as an experiment. Originally wrote dishwasher liquid in error and have updated my post. I have not had record destroying results with liquid dish washing cleaning liquid such as dawn. Dish detergent in the amount I used silenced the record but destroyed the highs.
If you want Bob to read your reply you should actually reply to his comment by going to his post and clicking reply. I have not noticed any degradation in any frequency range when using my method.
@@LPCLASSICAL I would but his comment is no longer showing on my feed of comments for some reason. I will try another way.
@@TrueStereo- Yeah, I may have used a more "colorful" adjective in place of "nonsense". Apparently the CZcams goon squad found it objectionable, and blocked my original reply to your post. I did see your reply to my edited "PG" statement though. All good!
Simple and cheap effective just use Mild washing up liquid with warm water dry off... dont use chemicals if possible.
washing up liquid is made from chemicals
@@LPCLASSICAL very little though and highly diluted very mild only a few Drops in cup water!. been using for over 50 years got massive record collection all in A1 condition!..
Next time I get a noisy record I will try it and do a video.
@@LPCLASSICALUnderstanding Vinyl Surface Noise.. FYI.. Pops: These are caused by organic, vinyl, and/or metallic particles trapped in the groove wall. Proper cleaning can remove all but the most deeply imbedded of the pops.
Clicks: These are caused by scratches in the vinyl. Nothing is going to repair a scratch.
Crackles: The rice crispy sound that can be a constant throughout the record or very sporadic. I assume that more often than not this is caused by groove damage?
Static: A steady sound that doesn't really crackle but is more of a distortion noise. Is this groove damage or particles/dirt in the groove?
Sitting On Top Noise: Sometimes surface noise seems to ride on top the music and this is the most distracting. These records are the ones most likely to get discarded if cleaning doesn't make a major improvement.
Down On The Floor Noise: Sometimes surface noise seems to sit in the background and even if it is there the whole time it is much less of a distraction and is more easily ignored. These records are very aggravating when they are new records and easily forgiven when they are crate digging finds.
Proper cleaning can vastly improve these issues, but in some cases no amount of clean is going to make one iota of differences.
Also a worn or dirty stylus needle will cause noise problem and loss quality see link..
turntablemax.com/turntable-stylus-worn-symptoms/
@@AlesAndBluesGuy you touched on everything except the vinyl formulation itself. some recordings aimed at collectors use specific vinyl formulations that are quieter than others.
How did the record label look after it dried?
fine - I never had any issues otherwise I would not be using this method.
Never wet a label.
I have several records that have calcium carbonate impeded in the grooves I have ddp cleaned then run in a ultrasonic cleaner and still has much of it in grooves should I try using white vinegar with distilled water soak and scub?
try it. I keep telling people that ultrasound does not shift groove stuck in grime but they wont listen to me.
Great record deserves to sound like this now 👍
Is this an April Fool.
Off course it is, everybody knows you use starter fluid.
@@pudintain9656 I learned my lesson that not everybody with a camera and a CZcams account is someone to take advice from when researching car repairs, where what would usually be discarded as unproven gossip is passed on as good information, because content is needed for clicks. You might be surprised at how many people with a corvette such as mine are now running around town with their Air cleaners mounted backwards like idiots, because of an unproven , and nonsensical internet "hot performance tip"
How do you protect the label when using Groom and then cleaning it off with water?
Amazingly - Groom has no detectable impact on the label at all and neither does water.
@@LPCLASSICAL I've only had issues with the ink running with one record company that uses a red label. It may have been RCA Red Seal, but I think it was actually from Mercury Living Presence. As a solution, two 4 inch diameter locking suction cups with release handles work great. They're commonly used to move large panes of glass, and remove dents from cars They just cover the label, and stop at end of the runout groove. They won't touch the inner recorded groove of your record. They're kind of clutzy to use, so I don't bother with them anymore. Also, almost all record labels are waterproof, but I did have an issue with that one company's labels.
Use deionized water it does exactly the same thing. i've been using it for 15 years. Not expensive a 2.5ltr bottle £1.50 in tesco.
really? good tip. will try it
I'll have to try this next time I need to clean records. One question, what would be the American equivalent of Groom? I'd guess there has to be something similar on the market here in the States.....
Don't do it
Nice, but only works in countries where Groom is available. IPA is at least available everywhere.
Do you destroy all the labels? If not, how do you protect them? Also, I presume you just pour distilled water over the record to rinse off the cleaner? And I cannot find this product for sale here in the U.S.A. Anyone know of a substitute?
The labels never are affected.
What a mess! What labor intensive work for 1 record!! It’s got to leave a slimy film on the vinyl Why do you spray so much on one side??? I use a Hummiguru with distilled water and it’s easy no mess and does a fantastic job
So you spent £300 on a cleaning machine. Good for you. My solution is much cheaper. 1 x can of Groom will last years and is less than £10. No it does not have to leave a slimy film and does not.
@@LPCLASSICAL if low cost is your primary objective, your record cleaning goals are very different than mine, which is sensible record preservation . I would never advise wasting money, but I also don't ride a skateboard to the market even though maintenance is much cheaper than with a car.
I think the point well taken, that record cleaning has advanced to where ultrasonic cleaning has made many approaches obsolete.
@@richardelliott8352 Frankly I do not believe ultra sound cleaning can get sticky encrusted grime from the grooves. Groom does the ultimate job and cheaper.
I use WD40 works every time
I'm very impressed. You're very smart. I must thank you for your help!
Interesting but watch the high frequencies. I used dishwasher detergent the type you put in a dishwasher as an experiment. Stopped pops and surface noise but took out high freq a bit.
This is total bullshit!. I've been washing my records, including expensive audiophile, as well as rare collectable original pressings w/dishwasher liquid, and Dawn dish soap for over 30 yrs. The process never resulted in frequency loss, or any other issues whatsoever. You're spreading typical misinformation that unfortunately gets posted, read, and then believed by gullible neophytes seeking guidance on online forums, youtube and the like. Maybe you have buildup on your stylus. When was the last time you inspected your stylus w/magnification, and good lighting? When was the last time you cleaned your stylus?
This is utter nonsense! I've been cleaning my records, including expensive audiophile, and rare collectable 1st pressings w/dishwasher liquid as well as Dawn dish soap for over 30 years. Never has this process resulted in frequency loss, or any other issues. Unfortunately this is typical of the misinformation posted on audio forums, youtube and the like, then read, and believed by gullible neophytes. If you're losing high frequencies, then maybe you aren't rinsing your vinyl well enough, and you have crud built up on your stylus. Wen was the last time you inspected your stylus with magnification, and good lighting? When was the last time you cleaned your stylus?
@@bobmclaughlin3851 Bob - I used dishwasher detergent the type you put in a dishwasher as an experiment. Originally wrote dishwasher liquid in error and have updated my post. I have not had record destroying results with liquid dish washing cleaning liquid such as dawn. Dish detergent in the amount I used silenced the record but destroyed the highs.
Hi Have U ever tried PVA wood glue spread over and left to dry completely then peel off???
Ha ha good joke
@@LPCLASSICAL It's for real. You can find videos on it on CZcams. Personally, I wouldn't touch that method w/a 10 foot pole.
must be expensive too
I have made many people very angry. I have just under 4,000 LPs. I have been collecting at garage sales but also at good retail stores (before EBay began) and EBay from about 2009 on (a friend having a very bad experience has caused me to avoid Discogs) for 45 years. I don't purchase any LP that has any scratches or evidence of "mold". All my collection is VG+ or better. I use the same sponge that you do. I use very hot tap water and soak the sponge side (yes, I avoid the other side as you do) and add a good dose of Ivory Liquid. I hold the record under the tap and go around the record with the sponge (following the grooves) about 3 or 4 times, rinse then turn it over and repeat. I have two very fluffy absorbent towels on the table next to where I am cleaning. I finish by plopping the record down on the first towel, spin it with the palm of my hand on the label and turn over. I then transfer the record to the second towel and repeat. I then stand the record on its side in my listening room and let it finish air drying for an hour or two. It actually gets very dry from the process of the two towels, but I insure it with the additional air-dry step. I have cleaned unlistenable albums (due to dirt - you are correct - you cannot correct actual "groove" damage) and they are transformed. People cannot believe this works, but it does. After about 3 LPs, you need to rinse the sponge out repeatedly to get all the dirty residue out before you resoap and then can do about 2 or 3 more. Wash, rinse, dry, clean sponge as many times as necessary. Of course, if the towels get damp from the drying (about 9 LPs), get dry towels. I don't really give a hoot whether people believe me or not. I invite them to pick any LP out of my collection and then amaze them on either my Linn or Thorens.
That sounds ok. I have used washing up liquid in the past and had good results. I just find this Groom totally dissolves off any grime in the grooves but if that works for you that is good enough.
Hi, looks good your method, by the way what is “Ivory Liquid”? Thanks
@@erwfacpl Dishwashing liquid. It seems to have the least additives. I assume this post is from the UK and you may not have that product there.
@@edwardgonczy3170 Thanks for the reply, actually I’m from Spain, can you advise any other brands?
@@erwfacpl What's the mildest dishwashing liquid you have? That's the brand I would recommend.
use DISTILLED WATER and a Microfiber Cloth NOT SOAKED
This is an interesting method
need to use deionised water, definitely not filtered water,
Believe it or not, a light coating of WD40 is also beneficial once the disc is elean. It reduces surface noise.
Also DO NOT use a sponge, too rough. Use a yellow duster instead.
No, no, no, over time it will wreck your cartridge as minute amounts of wd40 creep up the cantilever and into the body of the cartridge! This is especially a nightmare if you have an expensive mc cartridge. As everyone has no doubt experienced, wd40 has an amazing ability to spread across surfaces.
@@fusionfan6883 also consider that as the needle passes with about 20 tons per square inch of pressure, the frictional heat causes the vinyl bonds to separate, and then as the heat event passes, instantly reform into the molecular lattice achieved when the vinyl was first pressed . Any contamination will degrade the ability of the molecular lattice to reform back into the original structure. So the record will also be harmed as the vinyl becomes contaminated with other molecules than do not have the same " memory" characteristics as record vinyl, such as a liquid , which retains no shape
What a transformation amazing result off to halfords
no
Not sure if that's available in the USA.
ambersil make some good sprays
Does anyone know where to get this in the US? Or, is there a similar product?
I think any upholstery cleaner will have the right ingredients. The main ingredient is benzol alcohol.
@@LPCLASSICAL most collectors shun alcohol based cleaners , because of potential effects of the known petroleum solvent. Some sellers, on the other hand , use a light household oil on a rag , because of the quick results and the resultant desirable shine.
You used to have a "VIP cleaning machine". Don't you mean a VPI cleaning machine?
YES VPI
As long as I am pointing out errors, a good record cleaning machine is more than just a vacuum, as the presenter here supposes. . while it does move air, a correctly designed machine will have a velocity of air flow designed to not be so fast as to accelerate the lighter water molecules so quickly that some heavier molecules separate out of suspension and are left behind , as if the record had been air dried.
Greetings from France! i'm off to buy the french equivalent......cheers
OK - good luck - the main component in Groom is benzyl alcohol - also aliphatic hydrocarbons and some others.
Sorry, but because of the video quality, I can't quite make out the full exact name of the cleaner.
Groom auto upholstery cleaner?
Also, since I'm in the states, will any upholstery cleaner do, or does this have special ingredients?
Yes - Groom. Not sure if it is available in the USA but if you go into your auto shop and ask for upholstery cleaner it is probably going to be similar. The main ingredients are benzyl alcohol - also aliphatic hydrocarbons.
@@LPCLASSICAL Why look for trouble . using known vinyl solvents might be easy and cheap, but it doesn't align with my goals, as long as one is buying cleaning product, why not buy a specifically designed record cleaning product, so your records will be useful to another when you kick off , because record playback quality increases over time. And records that might be suitable for your needs today , might not make the cut as playback performance increases in the future, and then the records just become more landfill . . A model "T" was fine for the performance of the time , but is unable to keep up with modern traffic today.
this consideration might also apply if, like myself, system playback quality has increased over a lifetime , to where my old man system has evolved to be very sensitive and has an ability to resolve information my old stuff couldn't touch.
Never use anything on a record before checking the ingredients listed against the PVC and Plasticizer Chemical Compatability chart.
No ingredients listed, do not use.
Wetting the label?
been using this for 30 years and never had any problems. Labels whetted dry - once dry they are fine. No degredation. I have thoroughly tested this process and stand by it.
Noted your experience.
We have seen many lay people without any common sense destroy over time records. Records are fragile and plasticizers as well as pvc may be affected over time once a cleaning agent was used. Initial results could have been fine at the onset.
To limit liability, in addition to checking the ingredients of any cleaning solution used, accessing a thermal chamber to do accelerated ageing is recommended.
The best you could do is urge caution. Neither of us have any actual trials on any of these products. Just anecdotal evidence which does not count for much.
I rarely use this method - only when other methods have failed - and the record would be thrown away otherwise.
@LPCLASSICAL we have spent 12 years using a Keyence VHX 7000 microscope, spectrum and audio analyzers, with an environmental enclosure to accelerate aging.
Check out our discoveries...
We are invited to speak globally on record groove restoration versus cleaning and shining.
OK - so you developed an ultra sound cleaner you are selling for $1500 USD. Personally I think my can of groom does a better job for a fraction of the cost but good luck with your product.
First off, your speaker placement is awful. Not sure how you expect to achieve proper soundstaging. Secondly, one would think you were reporting on a major news story, with the headset and boom mic. It’s listening to music, not sending humans to Mars. That Rega cartridge is an insanely overpriced AT-3600 with the Rega name slapped onto it. And finally, what works for you may not work for others.
The cartridge came ready fitted. It seems to sell for about £25 inc stylus. I usè the headset as the mic works well. Ok I could spend £120 on a pro mic. For the speakers I live in a small flat and mostly listen when working at my laptop. I dont need great soundstaging just refined sound.