It might be hard to know right away because observers can freak out about people too, but as objects. If people near you make noise, distract you with small talks or other issues that draw you away from your precess, perception of order or routine, or call you for problems solving while not trusting your abilities to do so or being not professional, in opposite to freaking out about people as subjects, their feelings or general relativity to you.
I think it is easier to look for deciders, they usually take interactions personally. For example, if a decider has a problem with his app in his phone and asks for your help to solve it, let's say you are a observer and cannot solve the problem because you don't know how to, so you tell him that you can't solve his problem, the decider will take it as a personal rejection. He will think that you refuse to help him because you don't like him (even if he is Thinking type dominant). The way deciders deal with these interactions is usually even if they don't know the solution, they will spit out a random solution that may or may not work (which explains why they are called Deciders, they must Decide!).
Man, I'm watching these videos, and now my mind is put again in the task of typing myself and I'm getting obsessed and freaking out again, please god help me
This is how scientists identify animals plants etc....I used to be real good at it.....look down the microscope, open the book, answer the questions has it got 4 seeds or 2? Now it was taxonomy class... but the method had a specific name and I just wish I could remember.
I love your information seriously thinking about paying for this. I've been hesitant on doing this because its defying everything that I've grown a custom too through my own internal understanding of functions and mbti but you guys are so on point.
I keep hearing how MBTI is horoscope, feel-good tier shit, how big 5 should replace it, how unscientific it is and yet whenever you upload, I can't help but see your explanations as correct and rather in-depth, at least compared to any(?) test you can take online I _think_ I'm _missing some information_ and it's _driving me insane_ fokin intj m8
It's because most popular descriptions of each type you can find online are worded so broadly and vaguely that anyone could apply any type to themselves.
@zdulcun > keep hearing how MBTI is horoscope, feel-good tier shit, how big 5 should replace it, how unscientific it is Because those arguments are BULLSHIT and not even grounded in "science" and knowledge. MBTI = Horoscope is a bullshit argument because MBTI at least has a 50% chance (the dichotomy test) of being valid while horoscope and NOT predictive at all, essentially random. Horoscope are plagued by the Fohrer effect BUT MBTI is NOT. The descriptions of the functions are anything but vague and their dichotomy profile are very oriented as well... Feel-good shit : same argument for horoscope criticizing and fohrer effect. MBTI profiles do say good stuff more than bad stuff but it's because "nobody" would read bad stuff and enjoy that... but it's very easy to delve into what you actually do wrong as a personality type, for self-growth Big 5 and Jungian Typology really don't exist in the same dimension so they totally can coexist. With that said I find Big 5 very very shallow. The real criticisms are harder to make and would be stuff like how functions aren't real because they are non measurable and confounded with the dichotomies (letters) themselves... which I don't agree in the first place (letters absolutely don't replace the dynamism we see in this video, savior demon, observer decider etc... there is a psychic dynamism to humans, it's not just plain and boring like letters implies).
It surprises me that people keep trying to type you through these videos since, as you've pointed out before, typing someone in a very controlled presentation is bound for error. Others who think they can type you would need to see how you are in the context of a long interview, or a long, unedited vlog or something (just as an example). Seriously, it's like some people don't listen to the theory of these videos.
I freak out about people vs tribe (in my everyday life and to my therapist). But I also come from a dysfunctional family. I have some difficulties figuring out what is actually personality type and what comes from upbringing and whether or not trauma is forming your personality type or 'misplacing' you from it. If I would take the scientific take on it, personality type is a result of how your brain is functioning and we all know how much impact your upbringing have on your brain. But again, you are also born with some kind of brain structure and dna that decide how your whole body is gonna work and hence your brain. But baby brains are super plastic. And they will in general copy their parents to an extreme. So, I am still stuck on this point - leaning towards childhood formation of the brain
Understandable to say the least. I have a good friend who I swear is an INFP but she is very concerned that her dysfunctional childhood altered her natural state so she's concerned that that's not her true self. There is some debate on this matter of whether or not your type is nature or nurture or to what extent it is either. I think that your type is pretty set genetically but what DOES change, IMO, is whether or not you are a healthy or unhealthy version of your type. Do you engage relatively more in your ego/positive functions (the 1st 4 in your stack) or the shadow functions (last 4)? And to what extremes do you go with those functions? I think this will be a more likely outcome of traumatic childhood while the actual type is the same in both cases. INTJ here.
@@hfortenberry Thank you for your answer. Yes, that makes sense for me. And I guess this state of 'being in your shadow' can cause you to mistype yourself - or maybe be mistyped by others as well... And that it perhaps would take a little longer to correctly type an unhealthy person...?
Holy shit can some1 plis type me I've been typed like 16 different types over the past quadrillion years and now I have to unlearn all this MBTI bullsh*t end my suffering now
So does anyone understand what the animal combinations are that DSP talks about in is website? I got the basics (I think) but I'm not sure how they actually work? Like what does an INFP CS look like? How is that different from an INFP SC or INFP SB? What is SB/P and how is that different from SB/C? I know that if I want more thing's to be explained I should take their classes but I don't have that kind of money right at the moment so....
Whence came the term deciders and observers? How do these terms connect to whether you freak out about missing information. Does an observer have a hard time making decisions because they are missing information? Are observers good at observing? What are they observing? Why did you choose these terms? I don't get the choice of titles for the categories. Can anyone clarify? (Yes, I know I'm freaking out because of missing information...don't bother to comment about it).
Alright, so i'm pretty late to the party though i have watched and commented on some of your videos but this is the only time i sat down and gave this more thought than i have given it, in the past. So here goes nothing... in one of your videos, you've said that we are more aware of our 2nd and 3rd function than our primary. So on your checklist in 0:43, i am fully aware that in life, there are things that we do and do not have control and we're forced to live with it. Does that make me a double observer? Now as for what's leading me is that it's very important for me that i know the topic or whatever it is that captures my attention hence i see myself as stupid and it frustrates me. I can be quite condescending accdg to what i have gathered from others and that when i speak, i simplify what i say so much as if i'm always talking to 5 year olds. Also, i don't argue for argument's sake... only when i pick up something that doesn't make sense to me. Lately, i have this fight with my close friend and it really hurts me to the point that i ask myself of the things i did to deserve what i am experiencing. Does that make me prioritize myself? It my sound a bit stupid to think that a person can be a triple observer but i just want to make sure. As for the rest.. i have to watch the rest of the videos that tackle them.
I took two tests, one in 2010 where I got ENTP and one in 2016 where I got ENTJ. I just found out through this channel that the two types share ZERO functions lol. How exactly does this happen? I am just going to go with ENTx.
What do you think of possibly using the hack/idea of seeing if your photos in your phone are mostly of things or of people? But I guess that could go either way...some people may collect photos of things to remember the missing information, so they have a ton photos of things because they're worried about them OR they may be more comfy with things and less so with people, so there's few photos of people...because they're overthinking it so much that they end up avoiding the interaction that would cause the photos to be taken in the first place.....hmm. I do think it would be more likely that you have more photos of the subject that you're freaking out about. And less of the other one since it doesn't occur to you to photograph them that often. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
So I guess I have a question, should this evaluation be performed when someone is at their more or less baseline, or when they are having a miserable existential crisis of some kind? How would the evaluation differ in that case? How do you even know what the baseline is if you don't have familiarity with someone?
dirtywhitellama my apologies. I wasn’t very clear. Tidal wave IS a freak out. They’re interchangeable. Your crisis mode shines a light on what you’re freaking out about which is known as a tidal wave. The problem is it’s almost impossible to see our freak outs while they’re happening. This is why Dave recommends you get feedback from your peers. Another problem is your social circle rarely is well versed in these terms and could give you accurate feedback. A really good book on this is the inferior function by Marie Von Franz
What in the case of both... missing details (sensory) and conflict with tribe mentality but relaxed with self-identity. Intuition good (can easily see underlying concepts n patterns). I am mostly in my head. Difficulty being in the present moment. I see cognitive functions, not as innate (no evidence) but as transforming (nurture side of the debate) as we keep evolving. Most people don't evolve much. Maybe, hence this widespread bias that personality is innate. But there are evolving people too. It's possible that personality is a function of our evolving stages as well. More research n evidence needed in this area.
This checklist doesn't result in 512 types. It results in... probably 32 types (16 types plus a subtype system), but with multiple pieces of evidence for each part so that you can be sure you got it right, as is standard for a system made by Te. Compare with the Ti-system of "Socionics dichotomies" (which covers much of the same ground, but with no redundancy, because somehow redundancy is a strength for Te but a weakness for Ti.)
I’m confused. The ‘people’ vs ‘things’ distinction sounds more like the difference between Feeling and Thinking functions. I don’t see how being more focused on one or the other makes the person more likely to be a decider or an observer.
George Jackson re-watch the previous videos, thinking and feeling are about reasons and value. I get what you're saying since I used to think of thinking and feeling as impersonal vs personal, but I don't think that's a helpful description anymore.
Information vs identity / tribe. TL;DR - dominant observers have an inferior observer which causes anxiety pertaining to 'missing information', whereas dominant deciders also have an inferior decider which causes them anxiety about self-identity and tribe issues. That's how I understand it, at least :) [EDIT] That is to say that observers care more about data (or lack thereof) and deciders people/tribe.
This isn't the most prominent part of a person's type dude. This is just some underlying stuff which is easily discerned through observation. ... and yeah, INTPs do care about tribe and self identity. I'd know about that, believe me :p
I don't think that's Dave's position at all. Dave states that observers freak out about 'missing information' because they have a demon observer, whereas deciders freak out about identity and tribe because they have a demon decider. For example, I have demon Fe, so I can freak out about how I come across to others, what my position REALLY is within my organisation, am I being a good friend, husband and father? Who am I? What do I care about? Etc. (although the latter two may be more 'me' issues because my Ti and Si don't talk to one another). You're absolutely correct with what you say about me caring more about ideas. God yes. I consume ideas at the rate a Wall Street party snorts cocaine - BUT that demon decider really fucks me up. I think you've just misunderstood a bit - but I can see why you'd assume what you do.
According to this instruction, my type already isn't correct? I'm INTP. I also talk a lot about abstract things and relatively ok with the relationship things. So it means I'm an Observer? Hell no. INTP are always busy with their "nerd" interests so it is pretty much ok for me to talk about things and not people. I really don't see myself INTJ because of the obvious Ne all the time. I often think of philosophy and most of my thoughts start with "what if" questions. I always gather patterns and think deductively which is Ne/Si way of thinking. Also I'm very into stagnation from time to time what is veeery INTP thing unlike INTJ who constatly improving
You're like my twin here! I relate to all the things you've said here! I'm an IxxP too & most likely an INTP, although I'm not sure because I want clearer definitions of functions, to be sure
Black Shark you’ve got to remember that your own brain will trick you into thinking of your Demon as your saviors. So you could potentially be Ne or Ti Demon. Emphasis on potentially.
Probably a little late, but then as a double observer should I be providing the single observers with the missing information? Or are they just going to hate me for that? (HAHA, looks like I'm freaking out about self/tribe... gosh this works so well)
I would say yes, I’m a single observer and I could really use a second opinion on information that I would easily miss. Being a double decider I can easily tell single deciders “it’s not a big deal, the person will get over it or you can just talk it out, people are movable just give it time… done and done.”
So far, this, along with Michael Pierce, is of the more relatable/practical perspectives of MBTI typing. That said, I'm still skeptical. Why would someone with no certs. (& who-self admittedly-doesn't gaf about people) be doing this? And, "512!?" Where's that # coming from??? I need to Know.
Tekuila Peace. Thanks for responding. That makes sense. But, then, if "just for 'fun,'" why are they charging for type tests? And, a lot, at that? Like, is that part of the "fun?" As in: "Watch how much we can charge these idiots...and they will *gladly* PAY! Muahahahahahaaa," "fun?" Cuz, if so.. I say: "Yep. Sounds about right." Meaning: "Seems like textbook INTJ to me." LOL.
If you go to DSP's website you'll see he uses the equation 32 times 16 = 512. 32 comes from the mbti subtypes. There are two subtypes for each of the 16 mbti types and they depend on whether you favor your 1st+2nd functions or 1st+3rd functions. As for the '16' he uses in '32 times 16 = 512' that stands for the animal combination subtypes which are explained on his website. Basically you get the animal combinations by combining De, Di, Oi, Oe; to eachother. That's where 512 comes from.
Golden Ok. Thanks. But, doesn't that just mean 16 types who are either out of balance/caught in the loop &/or "in the 'grip?'" I mean, Dr. AJ Drenth (some guy trained in Psych who has been specialising in this topic for quite some time) explores the topic of 32 types here: personalityjunkie.com/01/intp-t-vs-intp-a-personality-types-a-critical-analysis/ ... And, people have been talking about each types ability to explore other types within their types by utilizing/balancing their functional stack (dominant/inferior/dark side/mirror etc etc..yada yada).. To just claim there are actually 512 different types by multiplying the numbers? Ermmm.. Maybe? Maybe not? I mean.. I looked at the table he flashes across the screen. There are several repeats.. Just in different color. I like Dave's stuff. And, at face value, I think he's got a much more accurate approach (than most) in typing others within the MBTI frame.. Until he over does the "they're all bull$#!t so... look out our point of differentiation!" shpeel & all. I'd like to see more of the former... Much less of the latter... It's a bit covert "salesy" to me... Esp. considering this all started from selling remote control airplanes. What I'm saying is: "Dear Dave, if you are really intending to help us wake up while simultaneously feeding yourselves, the least you could do is don't treat us like you're the zombies & we're the meal. Instead, give us the real deal (no rhyme intended). Thanks dude. See ya on the next vid."
im still having trouble understanding the difference between sensing and intuition. like how do you tell which one you're organizing and which one you're gathering? i know im a double observer but its hard to tell which one is leading
kristenVEVO isnt the best way to tell by waiting for your freak outs (tidal waves)? So if you’re Ne-Si with Ne as a hero (cocaine addict) you’re a gatherer of abstract patterns so you’re researching the metaphysical ideas & aren’t really respecting the data. Your freak out comes from you not paying attention to the data and it eventually biting you in the ass (e.g. Not filing taxes, not washing dishes or laundry, not doing the mundane things which eventually blows up in your face). If you’re Se-Ni you’re also gathering BUT you’re more focused on gathering the data and then trying to find the pattern between the data. However, you’re more often than not going to go gather more missing information. I could be wrong but this is what I’ve grasped.
Still don't know if i am INTP or ENTP , i constantly learn but i respect reasons valid reasons over anything. I can organize sensory and feel tribe values but i disregard them. Help pls :D. Don't know if i am peacocking or something like that.
I would honestly just get typed by Dave and Shannon. It doesn't really matter if you are an INTP or an ENTP. You need to understand where you really are in the 512 system in order for things to make more sense. Not just on the MBTI 16 types (I was completely wrong about my type for about 8 years thinking I was an INTP. It's very hard to be able to type yourself [as much as we like to think we are great at it] that is why its important to get as OBJECTIVE of a viewpoint on ones type as possible. Our biases are stronger than you may think)
Its not MBTI. MBTI is Myers Briggs Type Indicator which has only 16 types. Dave and Shannon have their own system that goes all the way to 512 types. After getting typed myself, I would never rely on typing myself because of my own subjective biases. We think we are so objective until we see someone else break down our personality
You can't, because pain trumps fear. Controlling chaos is all about fear, but if you're very identity (Fi, TI) is in question, it doesn't matter about controlling chaos if you're in that transitional period in life where you are soul searching.
Hm. These videos are somehow going into the realm of the esoteric, no? DSP, please get your Ti and Se involved from time to time. It would be a much welcome breath of fresh air for you and your ideas. Clients and viewers can always wait... :)
Does anyone know what background Dave and Shannon come from? Meaning what is their education and experience, and does it directly relate to personality theory?
Shannon studied art, graphic design, shot weddings for a decade, and Dave was into engineering and business things like social media back in 2004. They both took personality classes in uni (apparently it was a common thing). But neither of them claim to have professional training in personality theory, most likely that would have held them back from destroying the MBTI system in their heads. They read Carl Jung and other stuff They both have the Website where they sell Remote control cars, and they changed their website to ISTJ-style and their sales rocketed. So they wanted to go figure it out. During that journey they decided to make their lives about something more.. studying Tony Robbins and other masters and decided their meaning of life is to Grow and Give.. they were going to just make a business about MBTI but the more they went into the parts of cognitive functions, the more they saw dark scary things and patterns that kept shaking them up... they kept pushing into the pain and they developed this theory as a result of this process of going to hell and back, and they now have this gift they want to give to the world.. Shannon wanted to be an artist and next minute she and Dave are part of this thing that's bigger than themselves. They would repeatedly say to themselves "Who the hell are we to be the ones to bring objective typing to the world.. we're just a couple of jackasses on the internet.." so now Dave calls himself just a "team leader" who is trying to train 10 others to use this system, and if he dies after that he'll be happy. This info is from their mini-testimony from their Q&A March 22, 2018 video in the online classes.
How is it that your videos make much more sense and other 'rather traditional' ways of typing are damn too difficult to understand for me?!?!?!!??!! Thx anyways;D
This is a pretty big error. IxxJ can definitely be overly conscious about identity. ExxJ overly conscious about information or stagnation. Because Introversion, and because Extroversion.
I’ve noticed IJ’s are the biggest sticks in the mud, EP’s can’t and don’t want to slow down, IP’s have this tendency to either hate everyone or want to impress or be liked by others, and EJ’s hardly think about themselves. No offense but I’ve noticed deciders are worse judges of characters and I’ve seen a lot of IP’s invite toxic individuals into to their life because of wanting to fit in and want of human connection in an inf Te/Fe way. Again as an IJ I’ll admit I have a massive stick up my ass and I value consistency over experience/novelty. Reading about something or observing it passively is usually good enough for me. An IJ needs an EP to get them to chill out and vice versa of being the anchor/buoy. I’ve noticed EJ’s help IP’s feel more accepted and even if I’m Fe polr i still respect an EXFJ’s ability to make you feel seen/accommodated. EP’s know how to have fun and chill you out, IP’s tend to be masters of their craft and tend to be a wealth of information, and I suppose IJ’s give you that structure and consistency and can be depended on as your right hand.
It might be hard to know right away because observers can freak out about people too, but as objects. If people near you make noise, distract you with small talks or other issues that draw you away from your precess, perception of order or routine, or call you for problems solving while not trusting your abilities to do so or being not professional, in opposite to freaking out about people as subjects, their feelings or general relativity to you.
I think it is easier to look for deciders, they usually take interactions personally. For example, if a decider has a problem with his app in his phone and asks for your help to solve it, let's say you are a observer and cannot solve the problem because you don't know how to, so you tell him that you can't solve his problem, the decider will take it as a personal rejection. He will think that you refuse to help him because you don't like him (even if he is Thinking type dominant). The way deciders deal with these interactions is usually even if they don't know the solution, they will spit out a random solution that may or may not work (which explains why they are called Deciders, they must Decide!).
Man, I'm watching these videos, and now my mind is put again in the task of typing myself and I'm getting obsessed and freaking out again, please god help me
What if I'm not calm about things or people? 🤣😭
You might be a glass lizard lol 🤣🤣🤣
@@dontcare6980 lolololol
This is how scientists identify animals plants etc....I used to be real good at it.....look down the microscope, open the book, answer the questions has it got 4 seeds or 2? Now it was taxonomy class... but the method had a specific name and I just wish I could remember.
I know this comment is old, but it's called a dichotomous key.
Interesting that society is structured in a way that personalities who naturally prioritize people and logic get to make most of the decisions.
You take society away and you got an apocalypse and you still have those people making most of the decisions and building communities
Well when I started I was trying to decide between like three types, now I’m back to 16 haha
Same it was only 3 now its like 6
Stop watching MBTI memes. It clouds your mind with anecdotal bullshit that people who lack qualifications make.
I’m between fart blaster observer and shit-chicken decisioner. Tough call
I love your information seriously thinking about paying for this. I've been hesitant on doing this because its defying everything that I've grown a custom too through my own internal understanding of functions and mbti but you guys are so on point.
I keep hearing how MBTI is horoscope, feel-good tier shit, how big 5 should replace it, how unscientific it is
and yet whenever you upload, I can't help but see your explanations as correct and rather in-depth, at least compared to any(?) test you can take online
I _think_ I'm _missing some information_ and it's _driving me insane_
fokin intj m8
It's because most popular descriptions of each type you can find online are worded so broadly and vaguely that anyone could apply any type to themselves.
@zdulcun
> keep hearing how MBTI is horoscope, feel-good tier shit, how big 5 should replace it, how unscientific it is
Because those arguments are BULLSHIT and not even grounded in "science" and knowledge.
MBTI = Horoscope is a bullshit argument because MBTI at least has a 50% chance (the dichotomy test) of being valid while horoscope and NOT predictive at all, essentially random. Horoscope are plagued by the Fohrer effect BUT MBTI is NOT. The descriptions of the functions are anything but vague and their dichotomy profile are very oriented as well...
Feel-good shit : same argument for horoscope criticizing and fohrer effect. MBTI profiles do say good stuff more than bad stuff but it's because "nobody" would read bad stuff and enjoy that... but it's very easy to delve into what you actually do wrong as a personality type, for self-growth
Big 5 and Jungian Typology really don't exist in the same dimension so they totally can coexist. With that said I find Big 5 very very shallow.
The real criticisms are harder to make and would be stuff like how functions aren't real because they are non measurable and confounded with the dichotomies (letters) themselves... which I don't agree in the first place (letters absolutely don't replace the dynamism we see in this video, savior demon, observer decider etc... there is a psychic dynamism to humans, it's not just plain and boring like letters implies).
Its because of sites like 16 personalities.
Did you ever figure it out?
@@planetary-rendez-vous Great comment.
As an ENFP, you guys make the only personality videos I like to watch. Mainly coz they're about 5 min each. 😉 and all visuals help! Thanks
It surprises me that people keep trying to type you through these videos since, as you've pointed out before, typing someone in a very controlled presentation is bound for error.
Others who think they can type you would need to see how you are in the context of a long interview, or a long, unedited vlog or something (just as an example).
Seriously, it's like some people don't listen to the theory of these videos.
Trayson You might be an OO if... you think the Tribe is deaf and dumb cause they can't see what you do. 😂
@@amandagauthier-parker1399
I know right? I have the same annoyance with people 😂
I love this channel. This stuff is great.
Ok this was....... amazing!!!
Honestly this is the only channel that bring new information to my table
Oke someone my email is zackgudal@gmail.com
dave you're teasing us at this point
Can you organize your playlists so these videos are easier to consume/learn...?
Based on this, I'm an observer, a double decider? I'm confused now.
*Nah.. I'm not calm or balanced between myself and the tribe
Oh,thanks.Now i have so little confidence in what i might be an INTP.It helped me with supposing
Now i miss going to school and checking this all out
Holy shit is this why feel the need to ask questions about literally everything
The thumbnail scares me
Yo... this channel is fucking dope.
I freak out about people vs tribe (in my everyday life and to my therapist). But I also come from a dysfunctional family. I have some difficulties figuring out what is actually personality type and what comes from upbringing and whether or not trauma is forming your personality type or 'misplacing' you from it.
If I would take the scientific take on it, personality type is a result of how your brain is functioning and we all know how much impact your upbringing have on your brain. But again, you are also born with some kind of brain structure and dna that decide how your whole body is gonna work and hence your brain.
But baby brains are super plastic. And they will in general copy their parents to an extreme.
So, I am still stuck on this point - leaning towards childhood formation of the brain
Understandable to say the least. I have a good friend who I swear is an INFP but she is very concerned that her dysfunctional childhood altered her natural state so she's concerned that that's not her true self. There is some debate on this matter of whether or not your type is nature or nurture or to what extent it is either. I think that your type is pretty set genetically but what DOES change, IMO, is whether or not you are a healthy or unhealthy version of your type. Do you engage relatively more in your ego/positive functions (the 1st 4 in your stack) or the shadow functions (last 4)? And to what extremes do you go with those functions? I think this will be a more likely outcome of traumatic childhood while the actual type is the same in both cases. INTJ here.
@@hfortenberry Thank you for your answer. Yes, that makes sense for me. And I guess this state of 'being in your shadow' can cause you to mistype yourself - or maybe be mistyped by others as well...
And that it perhaps would take a little longer to correctly type an unhealthy person...?
Holly is talking about people and you are talking about things. That should get you started.
was already lolling at the thumbnail ahahaha
“They’re walking around with this G I A N T observer at the top” 😂
lol I tried to type you.. Did I get close? who cares right. I like your videos! The way you see the functions is very interesting. Thanks
Holy shit can some1 plis type me I've been typed like 16 different types over the past quadrillion years and now I have to unlearn all this MBTI bullsh*t end my suffering now
So does anyone understand what the animal combinations are that DSP talks about in is website? I got the basics (I think) but I'm not sure how they actually work? Like what does an INFP CS look like? How is that different from an INFP SC or INFP SB? What is SB/P and how is that different from SB/C?
I know that if I want more thing's to be explained I should take their classes but I don't have that kind of money right at the moment so....
Whence came the term deciders and observers? How do these terms connect to whether you freak out about missing information. Does an observer have a hard time making decisions because they are missing information? Are observers good at observing? What are they observing? Why did you choose these terms? I don't get the choice of titles for the categories. Can anyone clarify? (Yes, I know I'm freaking out because of missing information...don't bother to comment about it).
Thank you Clara J!
@Clara J that means you're an ExxJ single decider, my question is does that apply to IxxPs too?
"Ecksedra" LOL
Dave, you and C.S. Joseph should collaborate or compare notes
lol
Alright, so i'm pretty late to the party though i have watched and commented on some of your videos but this is the only time i sat down and gave this more thought than i have given it, in the past. So here goes nothing... in one of your videos, you've said that we are more aware of our 2nd and 3rd function than our primary. So on your checklist in 0:43, i am fully aware that in life, there are things that we do and do not have control and we're forced to live with it. Does that make me a double observer? Now as for what's leading me is that it's very important for me that i know the topic or whatever it is that captures my attention hence i see myself as stupid and it frustrates me. I can be quite condescending accdg to what i have gathered from others and that when i speak, i simplify what i say so much as if i'm always talking to 5 year olds. Also, i don't argue for argument's sake... only when i pick up something that doesn't make sense to me. Lately, i have this fight with my close friend and it really hurts me to the point that i ask myself of the things i did to deserve what i am experiencing. Does that make me prioritize myself? It my sound a bit stupid to think that a person can be a triple observer but i just want to make sure.
As for the rest.. i have to watch the rest of the videos that tackle them.
So would this relate to where their existential crises lie? What the subject of their anxiety is?
I took two tests, one in 2010 where I got ENTP and one in 2016 where I got ENTJ. I just found out through this channel that the two types share ZERO functions lol. How exactly does this happen? I am just going to go with ENTx.
So, wouldn't the "looking for the missing piece of information" mean that all DD would be gatherers?
What do you think of possibly using the hack/idea of seeing if your photos in your phone are mostly of things or of people?
But I guess that could go either way...some people may collect photos of things to remember the missing information, so they have a ton photos of things because they're worried about them OR they may be more comfy with things and less so with people, so there's few photos of people...because they're overthinking it so much that they end up avoiding the interaction that would cause the photos to be taken in the first place.....hmm.
I do think it would be more likely that you have more photos of the subject that you're freaking out about. And less of the other one since it doesn't occur to you to photograph them that often. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
that’s an interesting idea
So I guess I have a question, should this evaluation be performed when someone is at their more or less baseline, or when they are having a miserable existential crisis of some kind? How would the evaluation differ in that case? How do you even know what the baseline is if you don't have familiarity with someone?
dirtywhitellama crisis shows the tidal wave. Freak outs show the inferior function
@@wearejungians thank you! How would you differentiate between a crisis and a freak out? 🤔
dirtywhitellama my apologies. I wasn’t very clear. Tidal wave IS a freak out. They’re interchangeable. Your crisis mode shines a light on what you’re freaking out about which is known as a tidal wave. The problem is it’s almost impossible to see our freak outs while they’re happening. This is why Dave recommends you get feedback from your peers. Another problem is your social circle rarely is well versed in these terms and could give you accurate feedback.
A really good book on this is the inferior function by Marie Von Franz
What in the case of both... missing details (sensory) and conflict with tribe mentality but relaxed with self-identity. Intuition good (can easily see underlying concepts n patterns). I am mostly in my head. Difficulty being in the present moment.
I see cognitive functions, not as innate (no evidence) but as transforming (nurture side of the debate) as we keep evolving. Most people don't evolve much. Maybe, hence this widespread bias that personality is innate. But there are evolving people too. It's possible that personality is a function of our evolving stages as well. More research n evidence needed in this area.
This checklist doesn't result in 512 types. It results in... probably 32 types (16 types plus a subtype system), but with multiple pieces of evidence for each part so that you can be sure you got it right, as is standard for a system made by Te.
Compare with the Ti-system of "Socionics dichotomies" (which covers much of the same ground, but with no redundancy, because somehow redundancy is a strength for Te but a weakness for Ti.)
Or do we deal with info for self/tribe?
What is it to prioritize these things.
I’m confused. The ‘people’ vs ‘things’ distinction sounds more like the difference between Feeling and Thinking functions. I don’t see how being more focused on one or the other makes the person more likely to be a decider or an observer.
George Jackson re-watch the previous videos, thinking and feeling are about reasons and value. I get what you're saying since I used to think of thinking and feeling as impersonal vs personal, but I don't think that's a helpful description anymore.
George Jackson youre observer from ur comment
Information vs identity / tribe.
TL;DR - dominant observers have an inferior observer which causes anxiety pertaining to 'missing information', whereas dominant deciders also have an inferior decider which causes them anxiety about self-identity and tribe issues.
That's how I understand it, at least :)
[EDIT] That is to say that observers care more about data (or lack thereof) and deciders people/tribe.
This isn't the most prominent part of a person's type dude. This is just some underlying stuff which is easily discerned through observation.
... and yeah, INTPs do care about tribe and self identity. I'd know about that, believe me :p
I don't think that's Dave's position at all. Dave states that observers freak out about 'missing information' because they have a demon observer, whereas deciders freak out about identity and tribe because they have a demon decider. For example, I have demon Fe, so I can freak out about how I come across to others, what my position REALLY is within my organisation, am I being a good friend, husband and father? Who am I? What do I care about? Etc. (although the latter two may be more 'me' issues because my Ti and Si don't talk to one another).
You're absolutely correct with what you say about me caring more about ideas. God yes. I consume ideas at the rate a Wall Street party snorts cocaine - BUT that demon decider really fucks me up.
I think you've just misunderstood a bit - but I can see why you'd assume what you do.
According to this instruction, my type already isn't correct?
I'm INTP. I also talk a lot about abstract things and relatively ok with the relationship things. So it means I'm an Observer? Hell no. INTP are always busy with their "nerd" interests so it is pretty much ok for me to talk about things and not people. I really don't see myself INTJ because of the obvious Ne all the time. I often think of philosophy and most of my thoughts start with "what if" questions. I always gather patterns and think deductively which is Ne/Si way of thinking. Also I'm very into stagnation from time to time what is veeery INTP thing unlike INTJ who constatly improving
You're like my twin here! I relate to all the things you've said here! I'm an IxxP too & most likely an INTP, although I'm not sure because I want clearer definitions of functions, to be sure
Black Shark you’ve got to remember that your own brain will trick you into thinking of your Demon as your saviors. So you could potentially be Ne or Ti Demon. Emphasis on potentially.
Stereotypical...
Very INTP description indeed!
I am a double decider as well , but why do we freak out about the missing info ? It makes no sence to me but I do it
Damn thats really hard for me to see within myself... I feel like i struggle with both :D
Where do we get these graphs/sheets?
Cool... How do i get a typing session?
Probably a little late, but then as a double observer should I be providing the single observers with the missing information? Or are they just going to hate me for that? (HAHA, looks like I'm freaking out about self/tribe... gosh this works so well)
I would say yes, I’m a single observer and I could really use a second opinion on information that I would easily miss. Being a double decider I can easily tell single deciders “it’s not a big deal, the person will get over it or you can just talk it out, people are movable just give it time… done and done.”
I just saw this... No wonder me and my girlfriend argue so much. We are opposite on every single bloody nees and function.
what are you types? I'm curious
So far, this, along with Michael Pierce, is of the more relatable/practical perspectives of MBTI typing. That said, I'm still skeptical. Why would someone with no certs. (& who-self admittedly-doesn't gaf about people) be doing this? And, "512!?" Where's that # coming from???
I need to Know.
WhoWillYouCallOnThen? If he’s INTJ? Fun. Stuff like this is just fun.
Tekuila Peace. Thanks for responding. That makes sense. But, then, if "just for 'fun,'" why are they charging for type tests? And, a lot, at that? Like, is that part of the "fun?" As in: "Watch how much we can charge these idiots...and they will *gladly* PAY! Muahahahahahaaa," "fun?" Cuz, if so.. I say: "Yep. Sounds about right." Meaning: "Seems like textbook INTJ to me." LOL.
Nah, more like... "Well, we're basically devoting our lives to this now and we have to eat."
If you go to DSP's website you'll see he uses the equation 32 times 16 = 512.
32 comes from the mbti subtypes. There are two subtypes for each of the 16 mbti types and they depend on whether you favor your 1st+2nd functions or 1st+3rd functions.
As for the '16' he uses in '32 times 16 = 512' that stands for the animal combination subtypes which are explained on his website. Basically you get the animal combinations by combining De, Di, Oi, Oe; to eachother. That's where 512 comes from.
Golden Ok. Thanks. But, doesn't that just mean 16 types who are either out of balance/caught in the loop &/or "in the 'grip?'" I mean, Dr. AJ Drenth (some guy trained in Psych who has been specialising in this topic for quite some time) explores the topic of 32 types here: personalityjunkie.com/01/intp-t-vs-intp-a-personality-types-a-critical-analysis/ ... And, people have been talking about each types ability to explore other types within their types by utilizing/balancing their functional stack (dominant/inferior/dark side/mirror etc etc..yada yada).. To just claim there are actually 512 different types by multiplying the numbers? Ermmm.. Maybe?
Maybe not? I mean.. I looked at the table he flashes across the screen. There are several repeats.. Just in different color. I like Dave's stuff. And, at face value, I think he's got a much more accurate approach (than most) in typing others within the MBTI frame.. Until he over does the "they're all bull$#!t so... look out our point of differentiation!" shpeel & all. I'd like to see more of the former... Much less of the latter... It's a bit covert "salesy" to me... Esp. considering this all started from selling remote control airplanes. What I'm saying is: "Dear Dave, if you are really intending to help us wake up while simultaneously feeding yourselves, the least you could do is don't treat us like you're the zombies & we're the meal. Instead, give us the real deal (no rhyme intended). Thanks dude. See ya on the next vid."
im still having trouble understanding the difference between sensing and intuition. like how do you tell which one you're organizing and which one you're gathering? i know im a double observer but its hard to tell which one is leading
kristenVEVO isnt the best way to tell by waiting for your freak outs (tidal waves)? So if you’re Ne-Si with Ne as a hero (cocaine addict) you’re a gatherer of abstract patterns so you’re researching the metaphysical ideas & aren’t really respecting the data. Your freak out comes from you not paying attention to the data and it eventually biting you in the ass (e.g. Not filing taxes, not washing dishes or laundry, not doing the mundane things which eventually blows up in your face).
If you’re Se-Ni you’re also gathering BUT you’re more focused on gathering the data and then trying to find the pattern between the data. However, you’re more often than not going to go gather more missing information.
I could be wrong but this is what I’ve grasped.
Still don't know if i am INTP or ENTP , i constantly learn but i respect reasons valid reasons over anything. I can organize sensory and feel tribe values but i disregard them. Help pls :D. Don't know if i am peacocking or something like that.
That's INTP
I would honestly just get typed by Dave and Shannon. It doesn't really matter if you are an INTP or an ENTP. You need to understand where you really are in the 512 system in order for things to make more sense. Not just on the MBTI 16 types (I was completely wrong about my type for about 8 years thinking I was an INTP. It's very hard to be able to type yourself [as much as we like to think we are great at it] that is why its important to get as OBJECTIVE of a viewpoint on ones type as possible. Our biases are stronger than you may think)
Well i first need to know how 512 type MBTI works , i know how 32 types would , Ti with Si or Ne savior.
Introvert , Hrvatska , Osijek , valjda sam INTP
Its not MBTI. MBTI is Myers Briggs Type Indicator which has only 16 types. Dave and Shannon have their own system that goes all the way to 512 types. After getting typed myself, I would never rely on typing myself because of my own subjective biases. We think we are so objective until we see someone else break down our personality
How can you balance self and tribe without first controlling the chaos?
You can't, because pain trumps fear. Controlling chaos is all about fear, but if you're very identity (Fi, TI) is in question, it doesn't matter about controlling chaos if you're in that transitional period in life where you are soul searching.
Hm. These videos are somehow going into the realm of the esoteric, no?
DSP, please get your Ti and Se involved from time to time. It would be a much welcome breath of fresh air for you and your ideas. Clients and viewers can always wait... :)
Made my life so much easier
Things or People? What does that tell you? Whether they're a T or an F?
Things: IXXJ or EXXP
People: IXXP or EXXJ
Does anyone know what background Dave and Shannon come from? Meaning what is their education and experience, and does it directly relate to personality theory?
Shannon studied art, graphic design, shot weddings for a decade, and Dave was into engineering and business things like social media back in 2004. They both took personality classes in uni (apparently it was a common thing). But neither of them claim to have professional training in personality theory, most likely that would have held them back from destroying the MBTI system in their heads. They read Carl Jung and other stuff
They both have the Website where they sell Remote control cars, and they changed their website to ISTJ-style and their sales rocketed. So they wanted to go figure it out. During that journey they decided to make their lives about something more.. studying Tony Robbins and other masters and decided their meaning of life is to Grow and Give.. they were going to just make a business about MBTI but the more they went into the parts of cognitive functions, the more they saw dark scary things and patterns that kept shaking them up... they kept pushing into the pain and they developed this theory as a result of this process of going to hell and back, and they now have this gift they want to give to the world.. Shannon wanted to be an artist and next minute she and Dave are part of this thing that's bigger than themselves. They would repeatedly say to themselves "Who the hell are we to be the ones to bring objective typing to the world.. we're just a couple of jackasses on the internet.." so now Dave calls himself just a "team leader" who is trying to train 10 others to use this system, and if he dies after that he'll be happy.
This info is from their mini-testimony from their Q&A March 22, 2018 video in the online classes.
Kevin Paterson thank you!
Shan is FM Te/Se PC/S
Hmmm, Im actually confused now. Are not F doms more into tribe/identity, while T types are into things?
How is it that your videos make much more sense and other 'rather traditional' ways of typing are damn too difficult to understand for me?!?!?!!??!! Thx anyways;D
Katie Waikei from your comment, youre decider
I would love to have you type me just to see if what I believe is true.
you can do it on the website ;)
That's what I'm doing. Wish me luck.
good luck
wait so.... deciders talk about people? And observers about things? Or was it the other way around? It's really unclear in the video.
Dave's type is kind of obvious with his profile picture, also there's an earlier video where he said it himself. Nice vid btw, I like watching these
Fenol isn’t the profile picture for the channel an INTP?
danny harris or infp but if we are typing him intp would make more sense
blood phoenix541 they always use blue for thinking in those diagrams and wouldn’t being an INTP make him a double observer?
yeah i don't watch all of the vids tbh, just recalling old vid I watch some time ago. You're right with the DD and O Cliven
This is a pretty big error. IxxJ can definitely be overly conscious about identity. ExxJ overly conscious about information or stagnation. Because Introversion, and because Extroversion.
especially with like PiJi types or JePe types.
I’ve noticed IJ’s are the biggest sticks in the mud, EP’s can’t and don’t want to slow down, IP’s have this tendency to either hate everyone or want to impress or be liked by others, and EJ’s hardly think about themselves. No offense but I’ve noticed deciders are worse judges of characters and I’ve seen a lot of IP’s invite toxic individuals into to their life because of wanting to fit in and want of human connection in an inf Te/Fe way. Again as an IJ I’ll admit I have a massive stick up my ass and I value consistency over experience/novelty. Reading about something or observing it passively is usually good enough for me. An IJ needs an EP to get them to chill out and vice versa of being the anchor/buoy. I’ve noticed EJ’s help IP’s feel more accepted and even if I’m Fe polr i still respect an EXFJ’s ability to make you feel seen/accommodated. EP’s know how to have fun and chill you out, IP’s tend to be masters of their craft and tend to be a wealth of information, and I suppose IJ’s give you that structure and consistency and can be depended on as your right hand.
Boom first again
danny harris observer
Yes observer
is this mgtow