Over ATM on the Off Road Caravan And over GVM on the 79 landcruiser
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- We had our off road Supreme territory 17.6 caravan and 79 landcruiser weighed and we found out we are over weight Atm on the caravan and over gvm on the ute.
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If I read this correctly, when unhitched from the van, your front axle exceeds its rating and that also means your tow vehicle is not legal. Be careful which system is used to do tow vehicle GVM upgrade cause apparently some increase front axle rating whilst others do not, but instead increase the rear axle rating. Good luck getting it sorted.
Yeah not sure why...it's pretty standard except for a bullbar..I thinking that it might be wrong because he weight me on a angle...thanks for your comment
2 main things to know - 1. If either the tug or the van are overweight (GVM - ATM) you are driving illegally. As such if you have an accident, you have NO insurance on either the car or van, you lose the lot. 2. If you stack the van, insurance companies will have the lot scraped up from the side of the road and weighed, then they add the weights of full - water tanks, grey water tank, jerry cans and any other water storage. (they assume the water has spilled) Which means that if I had an accident when I travelled with 110lt less in the tanks, legally and 2 x 20lt empty water jerries on the rear bumper, I would be 180kg over ATM. They do this regardless of the tank content you might drive with. They call it mitigate-minimise, mitigate the claim all together, if not minimise as much as possible and they all do this. :)
That's good information....diffently would put me over if they add the grey water....I don't travel with that...using drop it somewhere...
Getting a fine, is the least of your worries, now you know, if you are involved in an accident, you are at fault, no insurance, also if you are over, you are not considered registered, the fine is the cost of registyration of the combination, no points, this is what they do to trucks, this is a serious situation to be in....
Yeah don't want to be in that position....I loaded the van for the weight test..too make sure I won't be over....some adjustments to be made for sure....thanks for your comment
@@muddyandsandy This is not a you fault, with full water tanks, and the small amount of gear you have, you should be well under?? Goes to show how easy this can happen.
@@bobkats 100% mate....
Those orange 'rock sliders' on the sides of the van - four tubes of metal that you could remove (we asked them not be included in the build - reduced the tare weight by quite a few kilos). Good so see another video out there on the importance of weights - hopefully more noise will get manufacturers to increase that tare to ATM gap...
That's a good point about the sliders I wonder how much weight they all weigh.....could be close to 50kg ....I'd be interested to see...I'm a swag guy...but wife wants more comforts....skipped the camper trailer and pop top..went straight to off road caravan.. so gettingnuse to caravan life....pretty happy with it..thanks for the comment..
We have a 2021 17'6 Territory. Got our ATM increased to 2800 at build. We also chose the ribbed sides and removed the washing machine and upgraded to lithium at build to save weight, and have swapped out our 9kg gas bottles for 4.5kgs. Whilst we are within weight....we can NEVER travel with more than 1 tank full of water due to the increase in the towball weight. Definitely want to shift 1 of the tanks to behind the axle.
Thanks for your comment...I was thinking of upgrading atm if possible...I will remove agm and probably change to 4.5kg...good ideal....love the caravan...I'm doing heaps to it...I'll weight it at the end....thanks
Thought I'd mention my van, 1620 Tare, 1920 ATM 15' off road pop top. 2 x 95lt tanks (no grey water) 12lt in the flush tank and 24lt in the H/W service = 226lt or 226kg of the 300kg load. My recent trip I had to put all the food in the car and its fridge and dump 110lt of water as I was 140kg over ATM. I'm getting an ATM u/g on Monday to 2100kg, which means a breakaway also. However there are other factors you may not know and not mentioned in your video. Next comment post. :)
Thanks for that info.. I would be interested to see if i can get a atm upgrade....but I thinking that it might be all ready at Max for a single axel van...thanks for your comment
We have the same van, different brand. The businesses selling vans should provide greater advice, and I know that one should do their research which we did. We are right on the edge of the weights, one more burger and we will blow it.
Haa....I'll keep a eye on that....keep it to just the essentials...beer and food...haa...it works for us at the moment....mostly doing weekend and couple weeks here and there...thanks for the comment...
We have a single axle and went over weight. Had the ATM upgrade done and culled a lot so now we are legal. I am annoyed that the manufacturer gave us a plated van before mods and never advised us on that or made it all clear at all. We have def learned lots.
Now I look at every van on the road and wow….so many obviously overweight. Bit scary.
Yes its easy to go over.....How much did your ATM increase by and how much did it cost you?
We’ve paid $950 inc GST from engineer company in Adelaide. Took plate papers to motor registration and then informed insurance company. We went from 2450(what they plated van) to 2750. Luckily the chassis and suspension etc could take the increase easily. Also incr the GTM to 2500. The only reason we replated the van is we are doing Uluṟu and wanted the 200kg of water. Ordinarily we don’t take all that on our travels.It was obvious the van company weighed van totally empty no mods.we asked that question when we ordered the van and they were very vague. I would push the point now I know.🤷🏼♀️we have a semi off road van. It’s a minefield isn’t it?🤦🏼♀️
@ladysusanjane2682 well that was worth it for sure...good on ya...yeah you will need that water ..not sure how I'll go..as atm is already 2750kg..it is a off road caravan so its abit heavy....but always worth asking....thanks for your comments
Final mention - My Golf is manufactured by AVan. I noted my issue with them and that the 2 Tyres are rated to 2860kg, well over the 1920 ATM. The ball is around 170kg. The Group axle max load is 2,000kg so if I had an ATM of 2100kg, the GTM on wheels would calculate at 1930kg which is below the axle load. They agreed and as the manufacturer have issued a revised compliance plate. This has cost nothing as they do the engineering in the first place. However because the van is going from below 2T to over 2T, it needs a breakaway system, which is costing me around $900. My logic; it's a small price to pay for a $65,000 van to be fully usable off road, be legal an covered by comp insurance. (Should note, towing with a Prado, with extras etc and will have a bit over 100kg GVM to spare) All good.......
Well done calculating that up and getting them to agree...yes that's a small price to pay..
Only fill 1 water tank until you get close to where your camping.
Good ideal......thanks for your comment...
Your biggest problem is the high tare weight and low ATM.
Payload is very low.
You'll probably find you can get away with 2 X 4.5 kg gas bottles
You don't need the water jerry can and unless you use the bikes a lot, I'd leave them at home.
If you are staying at Caravan parks, you could leave the generator at home also.
If the tow vehicle was under GVM you could put some things in there.
You could also get away with only filling one water tank, depending on travel plans and where you stay.
Good luck and thanks for sharing
100%....your right...tare weight is high in a single axel off road caravan....I will lose the generator..and probably the stone guard...won't need that much...and some kgs from agm battery's.. and some water..thanks for the comment..
My dual Axel caravan has a tare of 2400 approx (with full water tanks) and a gross of 3200. I have plenty of load carrying capacity except my prado has a Max tow capacity of 3000 kg and gross load of vehicle of 3000. Have weighed my rig several times, and I am legal, BUT with the towball load I have to have the car virtually empty. On return from Birdsville I filled up the fuel tank and van water tanks and got weighed. I was 10kg under on the car.
Nice one,goodsize payload for your caravan....just on the limit hey....atlease you are on to it....thanks for the comment...
I'm surprised your van is overweight, you don't appear to have that much extra in it. By the time you add clothes, food and a few other extra things you will be well over. I would check the actual tare weight of the van. Strip the van back to as it left the factory and take it over a weighbridge. If the van is heavier than the tare weight on the compliance plate then you will need to talk to the manufacturer. It would not be the first time a manufacturer has been caught lying about tare weight. Keep in mind the dealer may have fitted some options after the van left the factory. Good luck with it all.
I was abit surprised about it....yes might be worth doing that just to see...i dont mind at moment as we only use for weekends and couple week trips...I guess just reduce my water storage till i sort it out for the moment...thanks Peter..
Jeez, if you are over with a lightly packed single axle van then I would say that 99% of setups on the road are well over. (illegal )
Yeah...that could be a high possibility...might have to keep it to just the essentials....cocktail mixes,beer and toilet paper.haa......thanks for the comment
Gday Greatt fun sorting weighs.😢 I hope you can get the gvm for the LC ,I wanted to fit the springs & and shocks, but no one would give the compliance unless they fitted the gear. With LC axle load, the TBW can cause havoc TBW x1.5 indicates how much weight is on the rear axle with van hooked up. My van single axle has tare of 1939 kg & atm of 2500kg fully loaded I was 2460 kg I went back to the van manufacturer and got a 2600 kg up 100 kg a little more breathing space. I your case you will need to be careful not to exceed your tyre & rim max but there is tyres and rims that will be ok .your caravan manufacturer should able to advise you if your suspension will carry and up grade of agm. Some manufacturers don't like weigh up grades as they are already close. I have also ruthlessly culled and left gear a home . Hopefully with GVM sorted u will be able to move some weight from the van to the LC. Good Luck safe travels.
Hey mate..it sure is......that's great you were able to get another 100kg....yes I like to do things myself to save money....I knew I would have to get gvm plate for 79....I have found a couple people to do it,but not many....all have said they can do gvm plate but need receipts from suspension gear...which I have except for the rear springs....but I have a plan for that....yes it gets very close once you put some gear in it....I just need to be careful about what goes in.....I will reduce some weight..so hopefully that will help.....we only do weekend and couple week trips at moment So its fine......thanks for your comment...
@Muddy and Sandy sounds like a plan for gvm ,up on the Sunny Coast. No one would do it even though I am in mechanical engineering.Off to the Kimberlies in a month, we can hardly wait. Cheers.
@iandibley8032 ..yeah I was looking casually and found it hard to find someone.....I found Dr Tim's auto engineering that will do the gvm plate....you just need the receipts for suspension parts....and a fat wallet...I think he said $875 for the plate....which I was shocked a little bit....but I guess if you need it people will pay it.....it's on the list....have a great time up in NT....that will be awesome...don't forget your uni filter for the dust....saved my engine...
Move the water tanks back under the axle or behind the axle. Do an GVM upgrade on the ute to handle the towball weight of the van. Then you can put the bikes on top of the ute .
Yeah..I'll look into it...don't really want to reduce volume of water...but it could be the right way to fix it...I'll do some changes first and see how it ends up...thanks for the comment...
I swapped my 9kg gas bottles for 4.5. Saves a lot more than you think. When you lose the gennie and swap to lithium, that will more than cover it.
Good ideal mate....yeah lithium battery will definitely help....how long does your 4.5kg gas bottles last?
@@muddyandsandy couldn’t say exactly but use them for the Webber all the time and it’s never a problem. I guess it’s half what a 9kg lasts. It’s the weight of the cylinder where the difference is. They have a rare weight stamped on em. It’s a fair bit. Also, if you’re not doing hard core gravel, I removed my stone guard on the drawbar. Can’t say I’ve noticed any damage in 4 years 😀
@mickburns5546 ..good ideal with the stone guard...it's not to heavy...but yes that could be way to reduce it for sure....i mostly do beach trips and grass....not to many corrugated roads at moment...I wonder what those composite bottles would be like...
@@muddyandsandy expensive 😂
@@muddyandsandy don’t forget also, those bikes and carrier are taking a fair bit off the tow all weight. Especially with single axle. Maybe best to leave them on mate 😀
Your in for a very steep learning curve! lol
If you have 95l water tanks you will be very lucky to firstly get t h e full 95l into each tank, more likely mid to low 80l, your best chance to gill water tanks to their max (and minimise air pockets) is to bottom fill your tanks using the actual "drain" taps.....
I'll give it a go...and maybe measure water going into it...just to see what volume it's got...thanks for your comment
Hopefully the new batteries and loosing the genie will solve your problems. But then you haven't added clothes and personal effects yet so there will be another 40kg in. Hopefully you can get the upgrade done which will set you up but you will still be very close. Too close I would say. Seems like the manufacturer has some questions to answer. Hopefully they answer them correctly. Also you don't need both water tanks full but you will have some grey water, and black water if you don't have a composting toilet. Water is 1kg per litre but not good if that is all you have to work with. What if you wanted to get off the beaten path for 2weeks?
I agree...getting off the beaten track for awhile would require some sorting for sure.....I have a few plans to reduce some weight...so I can add it elsewhere.....it's close when your a single axel off road suspension...thanks for your comment...
Do you know if the manufacturer actually weighed 'your van'...some weigh ONE van from that size range in their catalogue and use that as the tare weight...then a buyer comes along and adds this 'n that and the van is never weighed to establish the 'new/actual' tare weight. Salespeople don't care about weights, it's in their own interests to sell more optional extras, but the buck stops with the owner to do their own diligence and be safe and legal.
Caravans are supposed to be weighed with water tanks full, but that original van might have only had one tank, it could have been a smaller capacity then a buyer adds an extra heavier tank + the water this can be enough to put you over. End story is that some items could have been included in your actual tare weight and could have prevented the situation you are in now.
The bikes and bike rack (ime) are in the wrong place and too heavy, you might need to reconsider taking bikes or swapping them for lighter framed bikes and mount on a lighter frame up front. The tunnel boot would be a good place for lightweight, foldable bikes, plus they would be out of the mud/grime/etc.
Why the LPG bottles? all electric with induction cooktop and 240v fridge via solar panels (you didn't mention solar but most vans have panels now) will save a lot of weight. Oh, solar panels are another thing that may/may not be included in the tare...did you add these as an 'optional' extra?
Don't concentrate on the water in the tanks...sorry you did mention this quite a bit, there are other areas and (as above) if the van was actually weighed then the tanks should have been full anyway.
Ball weight can be lowered heaps by removing the bikes and rack from the rear, plus you've got water back there too and if you don't need/use the genny lose that too.
Adding another axle might solve your problems or a different vehicle, there's a whole lot of numbers you can play with to get your setup safe and legal, because at the moment you'll be in a lot of grief if the **** hits the fan with the weights as they currently stand. You are not the first to have this problem, I guess a 'huge' numbers of caravans on the road are not legal and that's scary, I don't know why they shouldn't have to go over the weighbridge just like trucks.
Good luck and hope you can get this sorted.
Yeah..i dont think they weighed mine personally...I think it's a factory standard....i wanted fill it all up and see what it would weigh....I will lose the generator and I hear Yeah about the bikes and rack..they are abit heavy...I'll try and reduce aswhere first to see if I can keep the bike....I think 100% the rack it too heavy...and i dont normally travel with full tanks....so I'll reduce some weights and then see how I go.....solar was already on there...but I will be added some flexible ones soon....they dont weight to much....thanks for your comment...appreciate it
You need to look at your front axle Weight without the van on. On the chart where you said that with the van you are at GVM 3220 and you can go to 3400. Thats OK but you are 72kg over on the front axle. So this is not legal. you can not be over on your axle's regardless if you are under GVM. You can see in the other chart that when the van is attached, your front axle is good. Thats because of the counter weight created by the tow ball being so far behind the rear axle.
The issue with the van is that you only have 442 KG payload and that would be dry weight. No water or batteries etc. Add the water 200kg leaves 242kg You should have added up all the weight of your gear before you brought the van. Most people are in the same predicament as yourself. as most cars and vans are overloaded.
Hope you get it sorted.
100% right..I cant do much about front axel...as it's pretty factory except bullbar...except incould increase air in airbags to help....I overloaded water tanks so I could see totally load....I will reduce something to see... where we are at......I have upgraded suspension in 79....just don't have mod plate yet....they don't miss you for that $875 for a plate....thanks for your comment...
You got a problem that can be fixed, I might be able to help you with your GVM on both the Van and 4x4 got both of mine done let me know if your interested, I'm in Brisbane if you want to catch up.
Hey mate...sure I'm interested...thanks
Not too sure how accurate the weighing would be on that drive with the slope when it comes to ball weight... to get an accurate weight the ball should be set at the trailable height, it may have an impact.. I would be inclined to double check that on the flat, good luck with it and good luck with the channel :)
Hey guys...yeah your probably right...cause I was thinking the same thing...was hooked up to go down the road to a flatter area...but he said it was fine....he was pretty professional...but ill just take that weight as a guide because I'll be dropping some weight off the front anyway....thanks for the comment...hope your enjoying aussie....if your planning a North Stradbroke island trip....let me know....it's my local....
Yes you should weigh on the flat
I thought the rules were changing either July this year or next but caravan manufacturers were plating there tare weights different so it shows full of water and mattress and then you know what weight you have left for personal items and food and drinks
Would be interesting...
@@muddyandsandy they don’t do this now because they would need to drop water tank sizes or there carrying capacity would look horrible
@adamhunt318 . that would make sense....I'll just have to adjust my payload to suit
Looks like you illegal without the van on the cruiser being way over on the front axle?
Yeah...but I can't do anything about that...it's pretty standard in the front...thanks for your comment
You need to check max towball and tow hitch weight it seems you are well over on that.
Hey...it's very close but not over quite yet...350kg is max...I'm 310kg...8.78%...I think they like it around 7%....still your right..it's heavy......thanks for the comment
In South Africa, as a manufacturer, the max tow hitch mass ex factory should not exceed 100kg. This is not quite acceptable in terms of stability, but it's like talking to a brick wall trying to change it. One thing I have found is a slightly nose down attitude on the van helps stability when you have a lower nose weight. 0ver 300kg seems excessive to me it must place a high stress on your tow vehicle rear end, especially if you have a tow hitch extension.
@coadyg wow..100kg..not sure how they work that out....we uave some big caravans over here...my hitch is a do35,very strong..no extension....landcruiser seems fine with it....I have airbags which help....good ideal about a little nose down....thanks
442kg payload is pretty slim. Fill up both water tanks and you have only around 240kg!
Yeah.....gota watch what we take.....we do short trips at moment weekends,week or two....So it's fine...if I was going around aussie, would have to look at atm upgrade possible... or some other option....cheers for the comment..
Mate you need to loose the genset loose all the crap hanging off the back loose the 2 x 9kg gas bottles ( go for 1 x 4.5 kg bottle
Just fill it more often
Go back to 1 water tank
You will then be comfortably under
Yeah.. good ideal about the 4.5kg gas bottles...that should save some weight....genset will be going for sure...and yeah 1 water tank would be fine....thanks for the comment
@@muddyandsandy The temptation to go right up to the limit is great
But you’re trips will be so much better with as less weight as possible
Try to make everything you take have a double usage …
The temptation to take spare everything must be avoided!
Your car will thank you
@batmanlives6456 ..will do...I don't take much spare things...only items we really need...I did over fill tanks just to see what it will weigh...but normally dont drive with full tanks...thanks
replace your gas bottles with Composite Gas bottles you'll save 20kgs
That's a great ideal....that could be a plan....makes abit of a difference.....thanks for the comment...
Try using 4 kg gas bottles
Thanks for the tip...that will save some weight.....thanks
Your van payload is quite low…… only 400kg
Yeah..it is abit...was the biggest van on single axel....so I guess it I compromised a lower payload...but works for us at moment...thanks for your comment....
I thought that was pretty good for a single axle van
Will over full tanks....normally don't travel with full tanks .but was good to see in the weight
@adamhunt318 thanks mate....not fished yet
I can put you onto an engineer to plate you for $750 with you existing equipment. Yell out if your keen.
Yeah...sounds good mate...send me the details please...
No, you are not sweet with out the caravan.
- live the dream.
- did you think no one would not see the front axle loadings as being in the red
dumb and dumber give you wieghts on a non level driveway
- this will muck up the values they gave you
Yeah..I did ask about level ground...I can't do much about front axel weight...it's pretty standard except for a arb bullbar...I'll get it weighed again when I'm finished...and see what results it is...thanks
@@muddyandsandy
One pathway (high cost) for wieght saving is to ditch the gas system ( unless you have it for a gas hot watersystem) and upgrade the electrical system to a lithium system you can cook with.
- in my case, I retain the generator option as well as solar panels and very competent dcdc charge system. I have noted that a couple of portable solar panels wiegh as much as the generator and are not as convienent. ( setting up, managing stray dogs and small children from walking on them (yup this would wreck the panel). If you are stoping over night, the panels wont help, but a good dcdc charger will topup the lithium much more effectivly than a lead acid battery topsup
I recon the bike rack is abit heavy for what it is, some reengineering here could save some wieght
@johnallen3555 I have a gas hotwater and oven/hotplate so can't really get rid of gas bottles..I'm looking at some flexible solar panels for the roof to increase my input...also remove the generator for weight....yes the bike rack could do with a different style,something light weight....