love watching your old school musings Howie, im old school too. You are so right, im 62 and in my aprenticeship days my eyes were just so sharp i could see the point on the pin as it were, we would have bets in coffee break who could measure closest with a rule and looser bought the first round of beer that evening..now i struggle to see things, have different glasses for working on the lathe, welding, mill work etc etc as i need pair for specific distance...ohh to have 18 year old eyes again
I showed our apprentice the other day the value of a 36" scale a machinist square and a 1-2-3 block to measure lengths of a pump shaft to get the overall length and shoulder lengths. Then we checked our measurements with some more advanced measuring tools. Our overall length as measured with a scale with a square butted up against the end and a 1-2-3 block butted on the other end to line up on the scale was within 1 thou as measured with a large pair of mititoyo digital calipers.
Funny you mentioned colmac, I worked for Columbia machine as a Machinist from 2012-2017. Still making block machines and palletizer products as far as I know.
It the later bit that ruins your eyes, but you have to get old to suffer from needing glasses because you can't change the focal length of your eyes' lenses anymore. I remember the first time my sister saw me in reading glasses she poked fun at me, I told her that she was only seven years behind me and I was right. I keep a number of loupes in my workshop.
It's called Presbyopia. I am 67 years old and I use a lot of specialized inspection instruments. The main problem with modern scales is etching versus engraving.
when i went to college i got a summer job with the phone company when they were converting all houses to modular jacks. so i was on a crew with 5 other installers. each guy would do a house or 2 in a ady. one place i'm putting in a wall jack and ask the owner is this where you want it. he says to me no move it 30 thousandths to the right. i died laughing inside . i told this to the other guys later and they also had a good laugh. years later after i had my own machine shop i could finally appreciate 30 thousanths of an inch .
I find myself without my coveralls on, and reaching for my scale, I have carried a starrett 604re for 30 years, and as I’ve gotten older, I find myself carrying a scale that is either metric or one that is in 50s and hundreds, I’ve often thought the perfect scale would have at least five sides, metric ,tenths 50s and hundreds, and graduations in both metric imperial and 50s and hundreds, and no matter which way you turn it the scale would start on the left whether you had it backwards or not, if you really want to drive yourself crazy use your scale for a bookmark and then try to find your scale a couple hours later.
I had to use a pi tape to machine a very large diameter shaft one time, it was built up with weld and I had to machine it down to size. This was one of those 1 week gravy jobs, It worked great for me I told the Boss it could be a thou big or small and he was fine with that. I teach the apprentices to use what is around them, improvise, adapt and overcome. I rotate them from CNC to manual machines because that is the best way to learn. I keep them on the CNC's 75 percent of the time so they don't get too frustrated.
I am a retired auto tech. When i was in school we had a semester in the machine shop. It was very interesting. We did a lot of work using laths and milling machines. Years later i was in a shop that had an old WWII lathe. I was the only one who understood how to use it. and was able to use it make many special tools. As far as seeing ron out, one of the things i used was eyeball alignment to check toe in or out by picking 2 points on the front wheel then look down to the rear wheel. You were able to see toe in or out by where the edge of the rear rim lined up. Keep your video coming.
I’m 57 and after years of being out in the sun, welding, etc my eyes are shot for close up work. I used a digital microscope I’ve set up on the lathe a lot. I have an old optical comparator scale I tape to a flat screen monitor and by holding a scale in the work area I can "calibrate" it. It really makes a difference on the tiny features I need to cut. Say a 0.15mm oring groove in a 2mm part
Just like my Dad 😂 “I can see two thou!” Ya do it enough and you do get a freaky sense for this stuff. Now I’m the one that can see things… it’s a mixture of eyesight and that 6th sense
I use a modified version of this. Ground to a point 64th side and sanded a lot flatter on the 1/8-1/16 scale side. Our tools(welder) used to cost a lot more than they do now and the scale was much cheaper at the time. Still shuts up qc when they come by.lol
I always (even now at 65) have always been able to scale down to .002-.003" most of the time. BUT the trick (for me anyways) is using a 50ths scale. The 100ths are too indistinguishable for any good. My buddy used to razz me about it by having me scale something, then he would mic it. I'd usually land within 2 or 3. I guess after doing something for 30+ years you get a "feel" for it. My trick was to also use the same scale. I had the same little 6" for 35 or more years.
It was my boss at a smaller company, that went to Columbia, several other friends worked there too. In the area, I worked at Orbit Industries, in Washugal, Precision Machine in Vancouver, and Pump Components in Portland vintage 1978-79.
We had a DEA coordinate machine, and it was quite accurate, if the parts were clean, along with the fixtures that held them. Wouldn't a caliper, measure the width?
As someone who’s been a machinist for 12 years, this is the point I’ll give the engineers. Kids, including myself back then, got their metaphorical teeth kicked in for calling it a ruler/rule. And when I started my precision machining apprenticeship, it was music to my ears finding out these fudds were wrong about calling it a scale. I have no problem with folks thinking something is called one thing over another because that’s just what they were told. But calling kids retarded and having targets on their back until they got them fired, seems like a bit much. 2 shops I’ve been in, I’ve personally witnessed this happen and all they did was call it a rule/ruler to the wrong 60+ year old idiot.
Used this for making flat belts for power transmission. Obviously not the only way to measure but certainly my favorite for the task. Surprised it’s not more common
this subject could have been much more interesting. Too much gabbing and too little demonstrations. BTW, my machine shop supervisor nick-named me mic for short because before I turned 50 I had the ability to see such small dimensions. But I would use dial calipers to check down to 0.001 - 0.002" and a micrometer (mic) below that. Since a hair is between .002 & >003" thick, how thick were the lines on the scales with 1/256ths>
scales are good for the band saw. but lets use dial calipers or micrometers for the real stuff, even the half blind can read them. Let's not tempt fate. Just precision machinist advise.
A guy looks at the scale and you see the marks its closest to,and you interpret it from there or atleast i do..not sure if i can get withing 2 tho but i feel comfortable at 5to ten tho..
I do have several size rules in 100’s. I can’t say I find that precision useful on a rule. A lot of this seems to be; “In the old days…” These days, precision measuring equipment is fairly cheap and much easier to use.
There are surgeons who can replace that lens and solve the presbyopia permanently. You may need to fly to somewhere in the contiguous that has these doctors but it can be done.
i saw you had the scale at 64ths but said 10 thousandths so i thought you don't know what you are talking about cause a 64th is just over 15 thousandths . and it was on a short ,which you can't comment or reply or hit any links. all you can do is watch it and can't even change the speed. why do youtube creators not know that shorts can only be watched? they suck. so don't say click the link in the description in a short since the person watching can't do that anyway.
love watching your old school musings Howie, im old school too. You are so right, im 62 and in my aprenticeship days my eyes were just so sharp i could see the point on the pin as it were, we would have bets in coffee break who could measure closest with a rule and looser bought the first round of beer that evening..now i struggle to see things, have different glasses for working on the lathe, welding, mill work etc etc as i need pair for specific distance...ohh to have 18 year old eyes again
I showed our apprentice the other day the value of a 36" scale a machinist square and a 1-2-3 block to measure lengths of a pump shaft to get the overall length and shoulder lengths. Then we checked our measurements with some more advanced measuring tools. Our overall length as measured with a scale with a square butted up against the end and a 1-2-3 block butted on the other end to line up on the scale was within 1 thou as measured with a large pair of mititoyo digital calipers.
This is why a magnifying glass is useful in the shop. Nice video.
Funny you mentioned colmac, I worked for Columbia machine as a Machinist from 2012-2017. Still making block machines and palletizer products as far as I know.
Machinists Conspiracy Theory... using scales when young ruins your eyes for later. 😂
It the later bit that ruins your eyes, but you have to get old to suffer from needing glasses because you can't change the focal length of your eyes' lenses anymore. I remember the first time my sister saw me in reading glasses she poked fun at me, I told her that she was only seven years behind me and I was right. I keep a number of loupes in my workshop.
It's called Presbyopia. I am 67 years old and I use a lot of specialized inspection instruments.
The main problem with modern scales is etching versus engraving.
when i went to college i got a summer job with the phone company when they were converting all houses to modular jacks. so i was on a crew with 5 other installers. each guy would do a house or 2 in a ady. one place i'm putting in a wall jack and ask the owner is this where you want it. he says to me no move it 30 thousandths to the right. i died laughing inside . i told this to the other guys later and they also had a good laugh. years later after i had my own machine shop i could finally appreciate 30 thousanths of an inch .
I find myself without my coveralls on, and reaching for my scale, I have carried a starrett 604re for 30 years, and as I’ve gotten older, I find myself carrying a scale that is either metric or one that is in 50s and hundreds, I’ve often thought the perfect scale would have at least five sides, metric ,tenths 50s and hundreds, and graduations in both metric imperial and 50s and hundreds, and no matter which way you turn it the scale would start on the left whether you had it backwards or not, if you really want to drive yourself crazy use your scale for a bookmark and then try to find your scale a couple hours later.
I had to use a pi tape to machine a very large diameter shaft one time, it was built up with weld and I had to machine it down to size. This was one of those 1 week gravy jobs, It worked great for me I told the Boss it could be a thou big or small and he was fine with that. I teach the apprentices to use what is around them, improvise, adapt and overcome. I rotate them from CNC to manual machines because that is the best way to learn. I keep them on the CNC's 75 percent of the time so they don't get too frustrated.
I am a retired auto tech. When i was in school we had a semester in the machine shop. It was very interesting. We did a lot of work using laths and milling machines.
Years later i was in a shop that had an old WWII lathe. I was the only one who understood how to use it. and was able to use it make many special tools.
As far as seeing ron out, one of the things i used was eyeball alignment to check toe in or out by picking 2 points on the front wheel then look down to the rear wheel. You were able to see toe in or out by where the edge of the rear rim lined up.
Keep your video coming.
I’m 57 and after years of being out in the sun, welding, etc my eyes are shot for close up work. I used a digital microscope I’ve set up on the lathe a lot. I have an old optical comparator scale I tape to a flat screen monitor and by holding a scale in the work area I can "calibrate" it. It really makes a difference on the tiny features I need to cut. Say a 0.15mm oring groove in a 2mm part
Wow that’s cool, you mention Columbia machine. I was just adding box stops yesterday on one of there palletizer machines we have at Bogle Vineyards.
I love my 16R scale….never work without it!
I've also learned that, for me, if something looks crooked, its perfectly straight!
My father used to tell me that I have a crooked eye.
God bless you!
Just like my Dad 😂 “I can see two thou!” Ya do it enough and you do get a freaky sense for this stuff. Now I’m the one that can see things… it’s a mixture of eyesight and that 6th sense
Also use my scales every day in conjunction with the finer measuring tools, so it’s really a lot of practice is all
Every now and then the 10ths edge on a framing square gets me. Edit: I mean the 5ths edge.
I use a modified version of this. Ground to a point 64th side and sanded a lot flatter on the 1/8-1/16 scale side. Our tools(welder) used to cost a lot more than they do now and the scale was much cheaper at the time. Still shuts up qc when they come by.lol
I always (even now at 65) have always been able to scale down to .002-.003" most of the time. BUT the trick (for me anyways) is using a 50ths scale. The 100ths are too indistinguishable for any good. My buddy used to razz me about it by having me scale something, then he would mic it. I'd usually land within 2 or 3. I guess after doing something for 30+ years you get a "feel" for it. My trick was to also use the same scale. I had the same little 6" for 35 or more years.
I guessed .143
It was hard to tell because the camera angle was a bit high. Aw, good enough for a carpet installer putting a seam together.
Thanks for sharing this ~ I love your content.
Damn that dog scared the crap out of me.
Back then, I worked as a Millwright at WECO next door to you at Columbia Machine.
It was my boss at a smaller company, that went to Columbia, several other friends worked there too. In the area, I worked at Orbit Industries, in Washugal, Precision Machine in Vancouver, and Pump Components in Portland vintage 1978-79.
I started off using scales then quit that and bought by the gauge blocks.
We had a DEA coordinate machine, and it was quite accurate, if the parts were clean, along with the fixtures that held them. Wouldn't a caliper, measure the width?
Incoming “thats a steel rule, scales have different ratios” comment from an engineer. Just got hit with that last week lol.
As someone who’s been a machinist for 12 years, this is the point I’ll give the engineers. Kids, including myself back then, got their metaphorical teeth kicked in for calling it a ruler/rule. And when I started my precision machining apprenticeship, it was music to my ears finding out these fudds were wrong about calling it a scale. I have no problem with folks thinking something is called one thing over another because that’s just what they were told. But calling kids retarded and having targets on their back until they got them fired, seems like a bit much. 2 shops I’ve been in, I’ve personally witnessed this happen and all they did was call it a rule/ruler to the wrong 60+ year old idiot.
What are those scales called? Cant find one & I would like to get one. Or is it just a 1/100th scale ruler?
I use the tenths scale more than anything.
Used this for making flat belts for power transmission. Obviously not the only way to measure but certainly my favorite for the task. Surprised it’s not more common
this subject could have been much more interesting. Too much gabbing and too little demonstrations. BTW, my machine shop supervisor nick-named me mic for short because before I turned 50 I had the ability to see such small dimensions. But I would use dial calipers to check down to 0.001 - 0.002" and a micrometer (mic) below that. Since a hair is between .002 & >003" thick, how thick were the lines on the scales with 1/256ths>
Could you teach one of your employees on video so that we don't lose your knowledge?
scales are good for the band saw. but lets use dial calipers or micrometers for the real stuff, even the half blind can read them. Let's not tempt fate. Just precision machinist advise.
A guy looks at the scale and you see the marks its closest to,and you interpret it from there or atleast i do..not sure if i can get withing 2 tho but i feel comfortable at 5to ten tho..
I do have several size rules in 100’s. I can’t say I find that precision useful on a rule. A lot of this seems to be; “In the old days…” These days, precision measuring equipment is fairly cheap and much easier to use.
I never liked 100ths. I could do very well with a 50ths, but they're a little harder to find.
There are surgeons who can replace that lens and solve the presbyopia permanently. You may need to fly to somewhere in the contiguous that has these doctors but it can be done.
I didn’t fail the test; I failed to comment.
Otherwise known as an eyecrometer 😂
i saw you had the scale at 64ths but said 10 thousandths so i thought you don't know what you are talking about cause a 64th is just over 15 thousandths . and it was on a short ,which you can't comment or reply or hit any links. all you can do is watch it and can't even change the speed. why do youtube creators not know that shorts can only be watched? they suck. so don't say click the link in the description in a short since the person watching can't do that anyway.
.147? LOL, figured that before ya all showed the size
Machinists these days be working with gram scales instead. 4 real the machinists these days have some serious substance abuse issues.
Cool video. But wtf is mazuring