I. Was beching 315 in my teens at 150 lbs. I was strong in the bench. Its. Overrated. Like squats. And dips. I despise. Incline dumbell. And decline dumbell. And seated. Back support cable flys
Dips make me sad. I can maintain some dignity with a dip station but only have rings at home. Ring dips can eat shit. Have to do them with so much band assistance that it looks like I'm trapped in some kind of a sex swing.
negative dips and ring pushups till you build enough strength. ring dips are probably twice as hard as stationary dips.I love em because how athletic it feels, but I do it if i dont have means or time to go to a gym.
I have elbow issues that are highly dependant on the angle of my pressing. As long as I wrap my arm, I can bench press with close to my max, with almost no pain. Dipping on the other hand, one or two reps have me crying.
Daire: 'Weightlifters who could use the close grip bench are women and youth lifters' Me: *looks at my program from Sika for the day - "5x5 Close Grip Bench, & 5x10 Close Grip Pressups..." ... Me: '...right'
One nuance I have that made me choose dips over bench press is that, if you are training alone, it's safer to bail a weighted dip than a heavy bench press. Especially if your gym doesn't have a bench with safeties.
During the week I was comparing these two excersices. Bench is great for smoking the muscles involved in pushing, however it lacks a lot of trunk stabilization which is essential for energy transference in explosive movements. Meanwhile dips feel more like a complete compound movement compared to Bench in terms of how many muscles are involved. I've heard the analogy Dips are like the upper body squat and I'd say this is very accurate
What trunk stabilization happens during dips? Barely any😂 You stabilize mostly with your shoulders and traps. Btw not everything has to have a core stabilizating component to be considered athletic
@@XXLRebelyour core is supposed to be tight and still not all loose just hanging. It doesn't get activated as much with bench press. Explosive athletic movements use a lot of core. So dips have a better carry over.
it's really a clique-y, anti-bodybuilder/gym bro type of visceral revulsion among Western weightlifters (in the US at least) more than anything else. Meanwhile Eastern lifters like the Koreans seem to bench and strict press every day, and Lu says he keeps weightlifting cause he wants to keep showing off how hot he is.
Nah dips are objectively better, for those suited to them. More stabilization requirement and your shoulders aren't restricted in their movement by the bench.
I think it's just a stigma. Part of it being weightlifting gyms and training halls are usually very minimalist, meaning the only equipment you'll find is stands, bars, plates, parallel bars, and rings. That itself lends it more to not benching, plus the fact that horizontal pressing strength isn't really all that necessary for weightlifting. That being said there are plenty of weightlifters who still Bench from time to time, but I think Dips are a fine 1:1 for most people, especially weightlifters.
Yeah, and I think a lot of weightlifters try to differentiate themselves from powerlifters/bodybuilders by not bench pressing. I like to do everything I can to improve my lifting. I take stuff from weightlifting for explosiveness, powerlifting for raw strength, bodybuilding for muscle hypertrophy to be a complete athlete.
I have a very strong deadlift and squat. The reason my bench is so weak is opportunity cost. For me, it was more advantageous as an athlete to build a strong back and legs. I'm now slowly reeling that back now that I have a solid base and incorporating bench press more frequently.
@Abc it is easy as one two three I wasn’t necessarily trying to assert that as fact. It’s probably a superstition or a negative past experience that makes him think that way
@@abcitiseasyasonetwothree3066 for squat jerk it definitely limits it. I used to do squat jerk and benching definitely made me more tight. But once I switched to split jerk it wasn't much of a problem doing bench.
When I was hardcore into weightlifiting my thought process was if it doesn't help my snatch or cj then it's useless to me. As long as I could hit 2 plates I figured that was respectable enough when inevitably one gets asked "How much ya bench?"
As an American who had years of bench press/ powerlifting under my belt before giving weightlifting a fair go, I'll say that a fair amount of my shoulder mobility issues could be attributed to the tight pecs. But in reality, I wasn't training for the end range positions for weightlifting, so a clear discrepancy was established over the years.
As one of the hobbyist amateurs, I'm just gonna occam's razor it It's boring and I don't enjoy doing it I don't argue whether it is beneficial for my WLing or not
I don't enjoy benching but I do like that it's a lift I can move a decent amount of weight on without any of the technical or psychological concerns of all the lifts I do care about. But training takes long enough that benching gets cut for time anyway.
Why was the Pepsi crying after watching his friend snatch? He had such bad overhead stability, it was soda-pressing. Excellent video, as a thrower who benches with a lot of WL, can confirm that adding more chest/tri/shoulder meat has increased my jerk without chasing it.
I've met some older weightlifting coaches and alot of them believe that a bigger bench makes you slower in the jerk and snatch. Probably mostly a traditional thing
Reading through old soviet weightlifting books I always see bench prescribed in one way or another almost every single training session. Same with training videos of that time you always see them doing incline cg bench.
I was certainly in the camp of "bench bad" until I became reasonably strong at it, and all of a sudden, when I first was able to press 405lbs, it became my favorite lift. Funny how that works. That being said, I seem to personally get more out of weighted dips if I am being completely honest, but even if that was true, I still would want to be able to rotate compound movements in and out of my routine because I am over the age of 45 and I start to have issues if I do one movement for too long without making adjustments.
I took bench out of my programming when I noticed my overhead position always felt tight for a few days after benching. Just took it out and replaced it with more vertical pressing. Whooooo caaaaaares
I'm a big fan of ring dips they feel better on my shoulders work all those stabilized muscles once you can knock out sets of 10 with ease you can start adding a little bit of weight or progress towards Bulgarian dips
Probably because it isn’t a necessary movement for weightlifters, how would a bench press help your C&J or Snatch? An OHP movement would carry over much more. It’s like asking why don’t powerlifters train Cleans and snatches, a powerlifter can squat 300KG but can’t even snatch 60KG
I have train weightlifting for years and the main issue with bench press for me is the next. Shoulders receive a lot of work from weightlifting exercises, both main and auxiliary. Then when I go to bench is always feel awkward I prefer weighted lifts
I'm not a weightlifter, but I can definitely say that the range of motion you can take your shoulder through on a dip is much greater than the one on a bench press. You can work up to the point where you go way below parallel with your upper arm when you do dips. You might say that that is not a position the olympic lifts ever put your shoulder in, and this is true, but doing dips as the main pressing movement in your program will definitely keep your shoulders more mobile than doing bench press as the main press in your program. Bench might be a good secondary pressing movement, like they said, for women who are generally less strong in the upper body and may have difficulty getting much volume with dips. And, of course, if athletes are injured or have shoulder issues, bench press may have more of a place for them. Personally, I prefer dips.
I’m just an amateur so just keep that in mind. But what I’ve seen is that unless you stretch a lot bench will make your mobility worse. Or too much bench press can hurt your shoulders making you sidelined while you’re injured. It seems like dips are a better bang for your buck exercise.
My personal opinion is that barbell bench press is an awkward movement. Not just weightlifters but most of the population will not benefit from it and will indeed suffer from it. Sure if you are a power lifter you need it, or if you want pecs like Arnold but for most dips is far better exercise.
Matthew 6:19-21 KJV [19] Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: [20] but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: [21] for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Maybe a bit of ego too? It's easier to say I don't bench press rather than saying I only bench press 100kg5*5 as I don't focus on it and mainly train Oly.
If pec development isn't balanced with exercises that open the shoulder joint, such as pull ups or rows, the resulting imbalance can pull the shoulder forward and down (especially pec minor), which can negativity impact overhead mobility. I think this is the fear about benches. But if the routine is balanced, this shouldn't be a problem.
@@overlord6815 no, depending on how much rom a person uses in their dips you can maintain rom quite as dips allow the arms to come behind the body(shoulder extension) being in a fixed position on a bench doesn’t allow for that
Well, there's a strict weight limit in olympic weightlifting. That being the case, wouldn't you rather have 4lbs of extra muscle in your back and/or shoulders and/or legs, the areas that will help you hoist up more weight, instead of the chest?
Golden age of bodybuilding set the path for aspiring bodybuilders to build their chest to look impressive and masculine, it was this that made benching mainstream. Before golden age, chest was not prioritized and bronze/silver era bodybuilders had small chests. Weightlifting rarely ever requires chest like that and no real life scenarios require it unless youre backs against the ground which is already a losing scenario. Only time that chest is required is for squeezing rather than pressing like the atlas stones or sandbag carries in strongmen. Pecs is also not as big as a muscle as people think, its large in surface area but by volume it isn't all that much. No reason to tax the triceps and delts even more for such minimal benefit if youre a oly lifter
There's weight categories in weightlifting. That being so, you want to be strategic in which areas you pack on muscle. Imagine you're someone gunning for the top in weightlifting. Would you rather have 4lbs of muscle in your chest, or in areas such as the back, legs, and shoulders that will actually help you put up higher numbers?
I don’t think flat bench is best for anything. Instead I do overhead press, weighted dips, and incline bench. Overhead press and dips are great for shoulder functionality. Incline bench complements dips aesthetically to build upper chest.
How is it beneficial for overhead strength to do dips/bench by reducing spinal loading and inducing hypertrophy, but in another video you say it isn't beneficial to increase quad mass by hack squats or leg press in order to increase squat strength, with small quads as a weak point? Both instances reduce spinal loading in order to allow targeted hypertrophy and strength work for your weak points whilst keeping overall/spinal fatigue lower. Seems incongruent?
Horizontal pressing strength is that needed for weightlifting. Too much benching leads to tight pec minors which can cause issues for overhead movements. Dips are more natural for the shoulders and chest. Having said that another possible movement that takes all that into account is the decline bench or reverse grip bench press.
I progress on dips fast, now can do weighted 135lbs for reps, but every time i tried to bench it feels like a very alien movement. It feels wrong for shoulders, I don't feel safe doing heavy weight even with a spotter, while I feel very confident in my shoulders hanging 135 pounds of extra weight between my legs and wristwraps for preventing wrist injury. I supplement chest routine by doing dumbells press, I honestly dont know why people still bench.
For me, dips feel horrible for my shoulders but barbell bench press feels amazing for my chest and keeps my shoulders feeling good. I wish I could do dips
@@muhammadmore Strength can transfer. If you can do like 145x5 you can certainly do dips. There is obviously neuromuscular issue with any exercise (body didnt adapt to a new way of resistance), but you should able to do that unless you are over 200 pounds. Everyone is different, my point is that if you struggle, try something similar that also effective. I just give up on it because i don't want to learn something practically new, but grow strength with a progressive overload.
@@jojomcmudak5379 yh I tried doing dips for a few months (3-4) but not once did they feel good. Right now tho I'm following knee over toes guys video on doing push ups full ROM and dB bench press full ROM to help with dips. I'll see if that works
Dips won't really help overhead opposite angles. But they will build massive lower pecs and blow up flat bench. The carry over to flat is very good. Dips develope shoulder flexibility if you can go deep and more mobility from that. Give you a greater stretch going deep important for hypertrophy. They also are harder require more strength more range than bench. Dips are definitely superior to bench.
In ex soviet countries and the eastern bloc we are told in weightlifting gyms and wrestling, that the bench press greatly hinders shoulder mobility and thusly shouldn't be part of our routines.
@@2013_Shox interesting, with dips you get mainly triceps and pec activation and with strong triceps and pecs you should have benched more but everybody is different. I love dips but i dont like to go very hard, for me is more reps!
I don’t think it is just weightlifting. Bench press has little application to most people. Most of us do not play or compete at sports that require us to lie down and horizontally press heavy loads bilaterally, and there is little cross over effect here compared to something like weighted dips. Even in terms of aesthetics, I am firmly in the camp of not wanting muscle breasts for no good reason. If I were into powerlifting then sure.
This video seemingly was designed to address a question and you seemingly want to provide either an answer or your opinion. However I do hear "probably" in every sentence. So are you sure about what you're saying or not, so should I probably watch the video or not?
With anything coaching related it’s all relative to the Individual. So that means this may or may not apply to a lifter, but more often than not it does. So since more often than not it does apply, it’s PROBABLY a good idea.
I could see bench being the most far off from the specifity of weightlifting while being heavy and fatiguing. Like horizontal push isn't that amazing of a skill don't you think? I believe historically benching also became a thing very late in physical culture. People would lift things like deadlift, squat naturally and do strict presses, but when would they lie down and lift something? Perhaps when pushing big things that slide somehow, maybe heavy carts? I just feel like shoulders are more advantageous than pecs in weightlifting.
Benching simply breaks the natural rhythm of upper arm and scapulae that are meant to move in sync. Scapulae remain retracted and pinched together throughout while arms move up and down with heavy loads. It puts extreme stress on shoulder joint and causes problems down the road. This is simply an anatomical issue with benching. Many (not all) world record making benchers have history of shoulder injuries and surgeries. Many of them have even lost natural mobility of shoulders.
Bench is a good strength exercise for most sports applications. In weightlifting however, bench press can cause some issues with impinging the shoulder, primarily the labrum. Irritation or injury to this ligament can seriously limit range of motion and decrease overhead power. The overhead press is a better option for pressing and development of overhead stability and strength for the jerk and it is less impactful on the upper shoulders. Bench press and the associated hypertrophic development will reduce the playability of the triceps and the lats. This will also contribute to a limited range of motion. So, what to do... you can incorporate bench but also you must incorporate movements that will limit reducing range of motion and adjust the frequency so as to not pressure the labrum too much.
As far as I'm aware, the technique of bench press also doesn't lend itself well to healthy scapular movement during upper body pressing. Pinning your shoulders down and back and moving your arms isn't really natural, and allowing scapular protraction during the bench will kill your shoulders. Doesnt seem to suit a sport where stability at all of the shoulders extreme ranges of motion is essential.
@C-Dun Fitness yeah anything done lying on your back cant really be that valuable for sports unless you're a wrestler maybe. Especially considering most people arch their back unnaturally to bench more weight.
@C-Dun Fitness yeah I've done floor pressing before and its great. Felt really nice on my shoulders too which benching never did. I think weighted dips and weighted pushup are definitely the best 'chest' exercises for general fitness. Bench press is really only for powerlifters and bodybuilders. If it was really that great, strongman competitors would focus on it but they don't tend to, which is a good sign of its value for pure strength. Overhead press is the true king of upper body exercises, for strong healthy shoulders built on a foundation of big strong traps and healthy rotator cuff muscles.
Bench press has terrible carry over to everything else, that being said... I can bench press a lot of weight and is my best lift and do it once or twice a month now
I really like reading through the oldschool American training methods from the 60s or so. I feel like when the press was a thing in WL, most American lifters didn't actually bench to get their bench up, they simply used it as a burnout or secondary exercise with weights not much over their military press. To me this makes the most sense as if you're really tired it's hard to get 50-60 good reps on a military press or on full range dips, but it's relatively easy to do it benching, especially if you're using weights you can military press, most reps will still be fast and smooth and not grinders.
I somewhat agree, but it’s important to remember that some of the best pressers of that era, DID use the bench press as a main assistance to increase the military press. Most notably are Marvin Eder (50s era) and Doug Hepburn. Read up on their use of the bench press to aid the military press. At the same time many men who had a great military press, did NOT use the bench press at all. Guys like John grimek, bill March etc…goes to show there are more than one way to arrive at the same goal. I still believe it’s important to find what works for you specifically. I use to be in the camp of bashing the bench and would press only and do dips etc…when I actually got serious about getting my bench up, my press moved the most that it has. It works for me, if the bench only gives you achy shoulders and doesn’t aid your press, but another exercise works people should use that. People forget that everyone is different and you will never replicate the same results as someone else.
Flat bench promotes immobility of the front shoulder muscle. Weightlifters need that mobility to get under the bar. Side note: a lot of powerlifters using that extra arch. Looks so invalid.
If you're a powerlifter and that's your sport, makes sense. But for the general weightlifter, it's a terrible movement. Bad for the joints, and our bodies were not made for our arms to be in a fixed position. Especially while lying down. Most injuries happen with bench presses. It's a terribly unathletic movement. Far too much emphasis has been placed on this exercise. Something like a dumbell press is safer for most lifters. Saying that this is just due to people following crowds is overly simplistic and on the elitist/pretentious side imo
5:03: Why would raising someones center of mass make them slower under the bar (given the lifter's height is constant)? I mean it's intuitive but I can't quite explain it to myself...
@@Tom-vu1wr I am talking about the bench. If I didn't do them for ages and just went in, the middle of my lats would be as sore as anything obvious hit by bp a day and a half later... That and the outer heads of my biceps.
POOR logic. An Olympic champion (Lu)has said that he doesn't do it because it has no place in WL but you want to be an absolute tool to a guy who isn't even competitive in his weight class in the Olympics.
Yes I do not like bench and did not have a bench st my home gym for the last year. I started going to new gym and they have a bench and I am so weak at it now.
I really want to incorporate dips and weighted dips into my routine but I suffer from that dreadful sternum pain whenever I try especially after one time when I went a little too heavy. I always think to just give it some time and try again but it always comes back after I try, whats the solution? I believe it is related to rib cage mobility or something of the sort but Im not too sure, any help?
I might’ve had a similar injury to yours as well. Did weighed dips after not doing them for a while use to love them and as I went down it felt like my sternum popped or something. Next day I wake up and my inner chest was sore as hell, it healed but now I have this weird tight feeling at times like my sternum needs to crack like cracking your knuckles....even depending on how I breath and open up my rib cage I can hear it crack every now and then its mad annoying
@@c0wboys4life Ik, exactly what you mean, the day after I did dips again when I exhaled or liked bent over a bit my sternum would feel like it was getting crushed just like there was so much pressure there, I just tried stretching out as hard as I could
@@ryanstucke7811 its not really a shoulder issue I keep my scap retracted shoulders back chest proud and dont go too deep past 90 degrees its more of a chest pain issue from dips in general
I think its related to rib cage immobility or inflexibility or something but as I said in a comment of my own I suffer from it and have no clue how to deal with it
@@hurhurhurhurhruhrurh yea I think thats probably the right thing to do because certain dip bars that have wider handles give me more pain than other more narrow ones
The barbell bench press is good for bragging, but not much else. It'll also destroy your shoulders over time. Cables, dumbbells, and push ups are the ticket to a bigger chest.
Bs lol. The bench press is king of all presses when performed correctly, and 90% of the people who don't do it because it "hurts" them just don't do it right.
@@joem3502 Haha, what an amazing comeback. Literally don't know how I'm gonna respond to that one. Grow up. I've been lifting for 6 years now. I bench 380 and guess what? My chest, shoulders and triceps are big. I don't do flies, I don't do dumbbell presses, and I don't do pushups. Why? Because the bench press is King. Just like I said earlier, the people who don't make gains benching are either the ones who are very weak at it or don't perform it right. So which one are you?
Bench press will "destroy your shoulders over time" but push press, jerks, behind the neck press snatch press and catching overhead from snatch aren't? I would argue that the latter movements mentioned will do a better job at "[destroying] your shoulders over time" in relations to bench. and why the fuck would a weightlifter be doing cables and push ups, no one does them.
Don't see why not if you are not a powerlifter. Deep dips work triceps, chest and front delt pretty completely. Add in weighted progressions and you are set.
That Jack O'Donovan lad sure knows how to ask a good question
I. Was beching 315 in my teens at 150 lbs. I was strong in the bench. Its. Overrated. Like squats. And dips. I despise. Incline dumbell. And decline dumbell. And seated. Back support cable flys
Cap @@giorgioanastasios4734
Dips make me sad. I can maintain some dignity with a dip station but only have rings at home. Ring dips can eat shit. Have to do them with so much band assistance that it looks like I'm trapped in some kind of a sex swing.
Start with ring push ups, negative ring dips and ring holds until you're strong enough to do at least 3 ring dips.
Lmfao
Also practice just the rings support position (top of the dip)
i love ring dips, it feels weird af at first, but once you do them a few times, your body just learn how to stablelize. Good shit.
negative dips and ring pushups till you build enough strength. ring dips are probably twice as hard as stationary dips.I love em because how athletic it feels, but I do it if i dont have means or time to go to a gym.
As a powerlifter reading through these comments, I feel so isolated
Don't worry Rick.. there are others here, lurking in the dark, afraid to rear their heads
I'm here with you bro ✊🏼
Good
Same here. I’m wondering how the heck this even ended up in my recommended. But hey, interesting discussion. LOL
Bench is my favourite. Hi there!
I'm not even into oly lifting, how did the algorithm find out I hate benchpressing and prefer dips
Damn son who is you
@@Ahmed-vk8pv he's you with an H
Ahmed u possy my man
I have elbow issues that are highly dependant on the angle of my pressing. As long as I wrap my arm, I can bench press with close to my max, with almost no pain. Dipping on the other hand, one or two reps have me crying.
Daire: 'Weightlifters who could use the close grip bench are women and youth lifters'
Me: *looks at my program from Sika for the day - "5x5 Close Grip Bench, & 5x10 Close Grip Pressups..."
...
Me: '...right'
😂
@@calybaustin4900 🤣 🤣
😂😂😂😂😂
Very peculiar.
Also doesnt julius maddox use close grip relative to his size?
The subtle comedy keeps me coming back
One nuance I have that made me choose dips over bench press is that, if you are training alone, it's safer to bail a weighted dip than a heavy bench press. Especially if your gym doesn't have a bench with safeties.
During the week I was comparing these two excersices. Bench is great for smoking the muscles involved in pushing, however it lacks a lot of trunk stabilization which is essential for energy transference in explosive movements. Meanwhile dips feel more like a complete compound movement compared to Bench in terms of how many muscles are involved. I've heard the analogy Dips are like the upper body squat and I'd say this is very accurate
What trunk stabilization happens during dips? Barely any😂 You stabilize mostly with your shoulders and traps. Btw not everything has to have a core stabilizating component to be considered athletic
@@XXLRebel the core lights up during dips
@@curtisharolson6643 dips doesn't do shit for core, lol.
dips on rings have given me ab DOMS before
@@XXLRebelyour core is supposed to be tight and still not all loose just hanging. It doesn't get activated as much with bench press. Explosive athletic movements use a lot of core. So dips have a better carry over.
I find benchpress to be a super tightening exercise... the better I got at bench, the WORSE I felt everywhere else.
Probably best to bench every 1-2 weeks to keep the chest pumped
it's really a clique-y, anti-bodybuilder/gym bro type of visceral revulsion among Western weightlifters (in the US at least) more than anything else. Meanwhile Eastern lifters like the Koreans seem to bench and strict press every day, and Lu says he keeps weightlifting cause he wants to keep showing off how hot he is.
Definately. There's a lot of "benching is what the bros do, and the bros aren't as athletic as me, so therefore benching is useless to me"
Nah dips are objectively better, for those suited to them. More stabilization requirement and your shoulders aren't restricted in their movement by the bench.
@@gracefool Yeah except you're not getting the weight stimulus for dips like for bench without it being a huge pain in the ass
@@signs80 It's not that hard
@@gracefool If you wanna load up 200lbs of dips be my guest but that's way more of a pain than just benching 4 plates
I think it's just a stigma. Part of it being weightlifting gyms and training halls are usually very minimalist, meaning the only equipment you'll find is stands, bars, plates, parallel bars, and rings. That itself lends it more to not benching, plus the fact that horizontal pressing strength isn't really all that necessary for weightlifting. That being said there are plenty of weightlifters who still Bench from time to time, but I think Dips are a fine 1:1 for most people, especially weightlifters.
Far from rings and parallel bars I was reared. Sounds fancy 😂
From experience, my favorite type of bench is decline
Yeah, and I think a lot of weightlifters try to differentiate themselves from powerlifters/bodybuilders by not bench pressing. I like to do everything I can to improve my lifting. I take stuff from weightlifting for explosiveness, powerlifting for raw strength, bodybuilding for muscle hypertrophy to be a complete athlete.
all you would need is a bench to go along with stands to bench press though 😂.
do stands even go that low
From the outside looking in, it definitely feels like a "Weightlifters vs. Powerlifters" situation.
💪💥🦶
I have a very strong deadlift and squat. The reason my bench is so weak is opportunity cost. For me, it was more advantageous as an athlete to build a strong back and legs. I'm now slowly reeling that back now that I have a solid base and incorporating bench press more frequently.
takes 10-15 minutes to do 3-4 sets of bench press.
Warming up for a heavy benchpress is a breeze. My squat warm up takes more than all my bench working sets and rest combined
Artem okulov benches 180 fairly often and easily has one of the best jerk techniques in weightlifting
I don’t know how true it actually is, but Lu said in an interview that he felt benching limited his mobility
Not true, russians use benchpress actually.. and science has proven that bench press dont limit your rom.
@Abc it is easy as one two three I wasn’t necessarily trying to assert that as fact. It’s probably a superstition or a negative past experience that makes him think that way
@@abcitiseasyasonetwothree3066 for squat jerk it definitely limits it. I used to do squat jerk and benching definitely made me more tight. But once I switched to split jerk it wasn't much of a problem doing bench.
When I was hardcore into weightlifiting my thought process was if it doesn't help my snatch or cj then it's useless to me. As long as I could hit 2 plates I figured that was respectable enough when inevitably one gets asked "How much ya bench?"
Pretty much only reason why I benched, lol. Got 260 after 2 months of actually focusing on it for 2 months, now I just do it twice a month
As an American who had years of bench press/ powerlifting under my belt before giving weightlifting a fair go, I'll say that a fair amount of my shoulder mobility issues could be attributed to the tight pecs. But in reality, I wasn't training for the end range positions for weightlifting, so a clear discrepancy was established over the years.
I think it’s also a push back against the over pursuit of the bench press by sports coaches and “bro’s.”
Not a weightlifter, but I love anything programming and training modalities/ training theory. I can’t relate but I love to learn.
As one of the hobbyist amateurs, I'm just gonna occam's razor it
It's boring and I don't enjoy doing it
I don't argue whether it is beneficial for my WLing or not
@@rustyshackleford8473 Ex hobbyist powerlifter, I bench more than my C&J still (110 vs 98)
@@rustyshackleford8473 Weak oly lifts don't stop me enjoying them
I don't enjoy benching but I do like that it's a lift I can move a decent amount of weight on without any of the technical or psychological concerns of all the lifts I do care about. But training takes long enough that benching gets cut for time anyway.
@@AfferbeckBeats Yea for that I enjoying OHPs, rows and the like
Why was the Pepsi crying after watching his friend snatch?
He had such bad overhead stability, it was soda-pressing.
Excellent video, as a thrower who benches with a lot of WL, can confirm that adding more chest/tri/shoulder meat has increased my jerk without chasing it.
I’m pretty sure for the majority dips are underrated. Bench press is literally the most popular exercise besides bicep curls ig.
I've met some older weightlifting coaches and alot of them believe that a bigger bench makes you slower in the jerk and snatch. Probably mostly a traditional thing
Reading through old soviet weightlifting books I always see bench prescribed in one way or another almost every single training session. Same with training videos of that time you always see them doing incline cg bench.
I was certainly in the camp of "bench bad" until I became reasonably strong at it, and all of a sudden, when I first was able to press 405lbs, it became my favorite lift. Funny how that works.
That being said, I seem to personally get more out of weighted dips if I am being completely honest, but even if that was true, I still would want to be able to rotate compound movements in and out of my routine because I am over the age of 45 and I start to have issues if I do one movement for too long without making adjustments.
I took bench out of my programming when I noticed my overhead position always felt tight for a few days after benching. Just took it out and replaced it with more vertical pressing. Whooooo caaaaaares
I'm a big fan of ring dips they feel better on my shoulders work all those stabilized muscles once you can knock out sets of 10 with ease you can start adding a little bit of weight or progress towards Bulgarian dips
Probably because it isn’t a necessary movement for weightlifters, how would a bench press help your C&J or Snatch? An OHP movement would carry over much more. It’s like asking why don’t powerlifters train Cleans and snatches, a powerlifter can squat 300KG but can’t even snatch 60KG
I have train weightlifting for years and the main issue with bench press for me is the next.
Shoulders receive a lot of work from weightlifting exercises, both main and auxiliary.
Then when I go to bench is always feel awkward
I prefer weighted lifts
I'm as unfamiliar with the bench as I am with my dad 😣
Lmao
Pretty common denominator in this sphere lmfao
@@spacegupta71 we lift weights to be the strong men that our fathers will never see us as 😂😂😢😣
@@lucasskrobish2473 Too real, bro. Too real...
I don't even know who my bench press is...
I used to bench 420,
then I took a weightlifting to the knee..
Lmao this needs more likes
@@Jmack7861 :)
You just made me want to replay Skyrim for the 1000th time lol
Okulov benched 190 the other day.
I maxed out on bench press once, dropped 80% jerks enough times in the following week to forever regret it. Haven't benched since
I can max out on bench and squat jerk right after. But my hips get so tight I can't train anything squat related two days in a row.
4:34 monthly bench volume done
I'm not a weightlifter, but I can definitely say that the range of motion you can take your shoulder through on a dip is much greater than the one on a bench press. You can work up to the point where you go way below parallel with your upper arm when you do dips.
You might say that that is not a position the olympic lifts ever put your shoulder in, and this is true, but doing dips as the main pressing movement in your program will definitely keep your shoulders more mobile than doing bench press as the main press in your program.
Bench might be a good secondary pressing movement, like they said, for women who are generally less strong in the upper body and may have difficulty getting much volume with dips. And, of course, if athletes are injured or have shoulder issues, bench press may have more of a place for them.
Personally, I prefer dips.
I’m just an amateur so just keep that in mind. But what I’ve seen is that unless you stretch a lot bench will make your mobility worse. Or too much bench press can hurt your shoulders making you sidelined while you’re injured. It seems like dips are a better bang for your buck exercise.
Dips hurt my shoulders and elbows way worse than bench
My personal opinion is that barbell bench press is an awkward movement.
Not just weightlifters but most of the population will not benefit from it and will indeed suffer from it.
Sure if you are a power lifter you need it, or if you want pecs like Arnold but for most dips is far better exercise.
Matthew 6:19-21 KJV
[19] Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: [20] but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: [21] for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Maybe a bit of ego too? It's easier to say I don't bench press rather than saying I only bench press 100kg5*5 as I don't focus on it and mainly train Oly.
If pec development isn't balanced with exercises that open the shoulder joint, such as pull ups or rows, the resulting imbalance can pull the shoulder forward and down (especially pec minor), which can negativity impact overhead mobility. I think this is the fear about benches. But if the routine is balanced, this shouldn't be a problem.
Wouldn't dips do the same thing?
@@overlord6815 no, depending on how much rom a person uses in their dips you can maintain rom quite as dips allow the arms to come behind the body(shoulder extension) being in a fixed position on a bench doesn’t allow for that
Well, there's a strict weight limit in olympic weightlifting. That being the case, wouldn't you rather have 4lbs of extra muscle in your back and/or shoulders and/or legs, the areas that will help you hoist up more weight, instead of the chest?
Golden age of bodybuilding set the path for aspiring bodybuilders to build their chest to look impressive and masculine, it was this that made benching mainstream. Before golden age, chest was not prioritized and bronze/silver era bodybuilders had small chests. Weightlifting rarely ever requires chest like that and no real life scenarios require it unless youre backs against the ground which is already a losing scenario. Only time that chest is required is for squeezing rather than pressing like the atlas stones or sandbag carries in strongmen. Pecs is also not as big as a muscle as people think, its large in surface area but by volume it isn't all that much. No reason to tax the triceps and delts even more for such minimal benefit if youre a oly lifter
Mate I had to turn on the subtitles so I can understand your English
There's weight categories in weightlifting. That being so, you want to be strategic in which areas you pack on muscle. Imagine you're someone gunning for the top in weightlifting. Would you rather have 4lbs of muscle in your chest, or in areas such as the back, legs, and shoulders that will actually help you put up higher numbers?
I don’t think flat bench is best for anything. Instead I do overhead press, weighted dips, and incline bench. Overhead press and dips are great for shoulder functionality. Incline bench complements dips aesthetically to build upper chest.
Bench feels so unatural and very dependet on the bench material feeling. Dips feels more natural and controlled on a metal
For me narrow bench feels very natural
Yep as paralets are very natural 🇧🇷
I’m quite the opposite
How is it beneficial for overhead strength to do dips/bench by reducing spinal loading and inducing hypertrophy, but in another video you say it isn't beneficial to increase quad mass by hack squats or leg press in order to increase squat strength, with small quads as a weak point?
Both instances reduce spinal loading in order to allow targeted hypertrophy and strength work for your weak points whilst keeping overall/spinal fatigue lower.
Seems incongruent?
*hopes of getting to train bench again intesify*
Horizontal pressing strength is that needed for weightlifting. Too much benching leads to tight pec minors which can cause issues for overhead movements.
Dips are more natural for the shoulders and chest.
Having said that another possible movement that takes all that into account is the decline bench or reverse grip bench press.
I do dumbbell bench on a swiss ball. It adds the trunk stabilization element to the bench, but idk what the transfer of that is to athletics.
I do the same thing but I uh….I just have a cheap shitty bench that’ll break if I bench over 200
I progress on dips fast, now can do weighted 135lbs for reps, but every time i tried to bench it feels like a very alien movement.
It feels wrong for shoulders, I don't feel safe doing heavy weight even with a spotter, while I feel very confident in my shoulders hanging 135 pounds of extra weight between my legs and wristwraps for preventing wrist injury.
I supplement chest routine by doing dumbells press, I honestly dont know why people still bench.
For me, dips feel horrible for my shoulders but barbell bench press feels amazing for my chest and keeps my shoulders feeling good. I wish I could do dips
@@muhammadmore Strength can transfer. If you can do like 145x5 you can certainly do dips. There is obviously neuromuscular issue with any exercise (body didnt adapt to a new way of resistance), but you should able to do that unless you are over 200 pounds. Everyone is different, my point is that if you struggle, try something similar that also effective. I just give up on it because i don't want to learn something practically new, but grow strength with a progressive overload.
@@jojomcmudak5379 yh I tried doing dips for a few months (3-4) but not once did they feel good. Right now tho I'm following knee over toes guys video on doing push ups full ROM and dB bench press full ROM to help with dips. I'll see if that works
i do, messes up my front rack. i have a really narrow clean and jerk grip. dips allow me to hit the lower and inner chest and mostly triceps.
I do bench as an accessory and it helps a lot with overhead strength and arm lock out, so yeah I agree profoundly. I find dips not as effective tbh
Dips gives good stretch. The more the RoM the better for tendons.
Dips won't really help overhead opposite angles. But they will build massive lower pecs and blow up flat bench. The carry over to flat is very good. Dips develope shoulder flexibility if you can go deep and more mobility from that. Give you a greater stretch going deep important for hypertrophy. They also are harder require more strength more range than bench. Dips are definitely superior to bench.
In ex soviet countries and the eastern bloc we are told in weightlifting gyms and wrestling, that the bench press greatly hinders shoulder mobility and thusly shouldn't be part of our routines.
I personally prefer dips, was always able to dip way more than bench.
Including your body weight or what?
@@AexoeroV yes as in I could do 6 reps at 75kg bw with 40kg added but I could only bench 75kg for 1
@@2013_Shox interesting, with dips you get mainly triceps and pec activation and with strong triceps and pecs you should have benched more but everybody is different. I love dips but i dont like to go very hard, for me is more reps!
It's normal since a dip is like a decline press. Stronger position for the pecs to work in.
ask Clarence if he hates the bench press...
I don’t think it is just weightlifting. Bench press has little application to most people. Most of us do not play or compete at sports that require us to lie down and horizontally press heavy loads bilaterally, and there is little cross over effect here compared to something like weighted dips. Even in terms of aesthetics, I am firmly in the camp of not wanting muscle breasts for no good reason. If I were into powerlifting then sure.
This video seemingly was designed to address a question and you seemingly want to provide either an answer or your opinion. However I do hear "probably" in every sentence. So are you sure about what you're saying or not, so should I probably watch the video or not?
With anything coaching related it’s all relative to the Individual. So that means this may or may not apply to a lifter, but more often than not it does. So since more often than not it does apply, it’s PROBABLY a good idea.
I could see bench being the most far off from the specifity of weightlifting while being heavy and fatiguing. Like horizontal push isn't that amazing of a skill don't you think? I believe historically benching also became a thing very late in physical culture. People would lift things like deadlift, squat naturally and do strict presses, but when would they lie down and lift something? Perhaps when pushing big things that slide somehow, maybe heavy carts? I just feel like shoulders are more advantageous than pecs in weightlifting.
I love body weight dips but never cared for weighted dips
Benching simply breaks the natural rhythm of upper arm and scapulae that are meant to move in sync.
Scapulae remain retracted and pinched together throughout while arms move up and down with heavy loads. It puts extreme stress on shoulder joint and causes problems down the road.
This is simply an anatomical issue with benching. Many (not all) world record making benchers have history of shoulder injuries and surgeries. Many of them have even lost natural mobility of shoulders.
That black thing in the top right should be lower
Bench is a good strength exercise for most sports applications. In weightlifting however, bench press can cause some issues with impinging the shoulder, primarily the labrum. Irritation or injury to this ligament can seriously limit range of motion and decrease overhead power. The overhead press is a better option for pressing and development of overhead stability and strength for the jerk and it is less impactful on the upper shoulders. Bench press and the associated hypertrophic development will reduce the playability of the triceps and the lats. This will also contribute to a limited range of motion. So, what to do... you can incorporate bench but also you must incorporate movements that will limit reducing range of motion and adjust the frequency so as to not pressure the labrum too much.
As far as I'm aware, the technique of bench press also doesn't lend itself well to healthy scapular movement during upper body pressing. Pinning your shoulders down and back and moving your arms isn't really natural, and allowing scapular protraction during the bench will kill your shoulders. Doesnt seem to suit a sport where stability at all of the shoulders extreme ranges of motion is essential.
@C-Dun Fitness i think American footballers just use it as a general metric of upper body strength.
@C-Dun Fitness yeah anything done lying on your back cant really be that valuable for sports unless you're a wrestler maybe. Especially considering most people arch their back unnaturally to bench more weight.
@C-Dun Fitness yeah I've done floor pressing before and its great. Felt really nice on my shoulders too which benching never did. I think weighted dips and weighted pushup are definitely the best 'chest' exercises for general fitness. Bench press is really only for powerlifters and bodybuilders. If it was really that great, strongman competitors would focus on it but they don't tend to, which is a good sign of its value for pure strength. Overhead press is the true king of upper body exercises, for strong healthy shoulders built on a foundation of big strong traps and healthy rotator cuff muscles.
Bench press has terrible carry over to everything else, that being said... I can bench press a lot of weight and is my best lift and do it once or twice a month now
I stopped benching when I realised my lack of chest was holding me back and could get more out of strict pressing and weighted dips.
I really like reading through the oldschool American training methods from the 60s or so. I feel like when the press was a thing in WL, most American lifters didn't actually bench to get their bench up, they simply used it as a burnout or secondary exercise with weights not much over their military press. To me this makes the most sense as if you're really tired it's hard to get 50-60 good reps on a military press or on full range dips, but it's relatively easy to do it benching, especially if you're using weights you can military press, most reps will still be fast and smooth and not grinders.
I somewhat agree, but it’s important to remember that some of the best pressers of that era, DID use the bench press as a main assistance to increase the military press. Most notably are Marvin Eder (50s era) and Doug Hepburn. Read up on their use of the bench press to aid the military press. At the same time many men who had a great military press, did NOT use the bench press at all. Guys like John grimek, bill March etc…goes to show there are more than one way to arrive at the same goal. I still believe it’s important to find what works for you specifically. I use to be in the camp of bashing the bench and would press only and do dips etc…when I actually got serious about getting my bench up, my press moved the most that it has. It works for me, if the bench only gives you achy shoulders and doesn’t aid your press, but another exercise works people should use that. People forget that everyone is different and you will never replicate the same results as someone else.
Flat bench promotes immobility of the front shoulder muscle. Weightlifters need that mobility to get under the bar.
Side note: a lot of powerlifters using that extra arch. Looks so invalid.
I do powerlifting so bench alot, but dips wreck my shoulders!
That probably means you need to improve your shoulder mobility
@@AfferbeckBeats been working on that alot recently funny enough.
@@gwam83 ye that will help. But also going very deep with a lot of weight could be another issue
If you're a powerlifter and that's your sport, makes sense. But for the general weightlifter, it's a terrible movement. Bad for the joints, and our bodies were not made for our arms to be in a fixed position. Especially while lying down. Most injuries happen with bench presses. It's a terribly unathletic movement. Far too much emphasis has been placed on this exercise. Something like a dumbell press is safer for most lifters.
Saying that this is just due to people following crowds is overly simplistic and on the elitist/pretentious side imo
Also focusing on OHP or other movements such as dips lends to more size for naturals
5:03:
Why would raising someones center of mass make them slower under the bar (given the lifter's height is constant)? I mean it's intuitive but I can't quite explain it to myself...
I love both!
I do them because for me I find I feel it a lot in my back for whatever reason.
Dips hit ur traps
@@Tom-vu1wr I am talking about the bench. If I didn't do them for ages and just went in, the middle of my lats would be as sore as anything obvious hit by bp a day and a half later... That and the outer heads of my biceps.
@@Tom-vu1wr As far as the dips go, there's something to thise also. It's almost like an upper body squat. It hits almost everything
It’s because no one wants to look weak.
Clarence loves bench so who cares what any other weightlifters think
POOR logic. An Olympic champion (Lu)has said that he doesn't do it because it has no place in WL but you want to be an absolute tool to a guy who isn't even competitive in his weight class in the Olympics.
Yes I do not like bench and did not have a bench st my home gym for the last year. I started going to new gym and they have a bench and I am so weak at it now.
You could have done floor press to maintain muscle and strength in your chest until you get access to the gym.
@@jordanr6174 yes you are right
As a powerlifter with poverty bench, I don't like bench. I'd rather develop my dips and pullup/chinup than bench. Heck, I'd rather military press.
I really want to incorporate dips and weighted dips into my routine but I suffer from that dreadful sternum pain whenever I try especially after one time when I went a little too heavy. I always think to just give it some time and try again but it always comes back after I try, whats the solution? I believe it is related to rib cage mobility or something of the sort but Im not too sure, any help?
I might’ve had a similar injury to yours as well. Did weighed dips after not doing them for a while use to love them and as I went down it felt like my sternum popped or something. Next day I wake up and my inner chest was sore as hell, it healed but now I have this weird tight feeling at times like my sternum needs to crack like cracking your knuckles....even depending on how I breath and open up my rib cage I can hear it crack every now and then its mad annoying
@@c0wboys4life Ik, exactly what you mean, the day after I did dips again when I exhaled or liked bent over a bit my sternum would feel like it was getting crushed just like there was so much pressure there, I just tried stretching out as hard as I could
@@marrs_99 Yea it always feels like I need to stretch my chest open now it’s so annoying
@@marrs_99 shoulders up back and down and big barrel chest before you dip that helped my shoulder discomfort and depth for dips
@@ryanstucke7811 its not really a shoulder issue I keep my scap retracted shoulders back chest proud and dont go too deep past 90 degrees its more of a chest pain issue from dips in general
Long arms is death to the bench press
the fridge is good.... the fridge is great
i love bench press , i can just lay down xD
Why do Weightlifters hate Bench Press?
This video should have lasted less than a minute and focused on shoulder mobility issues that can come from bench pressing frequently and heavy.
1:40 they all have what shoulders?
It does sound very narky, by the way 😶🌫
And I admit, I also hate both benching and dips 🤣
Schmichaela Schmeeze disliked this video.
What causes the sternum pain when doing dips?
I think its related to rib cage immobility or inflexibility or something but as I said in a comment of my own I suffer from it and have no clue how to deal with it
Try narrowing your grip or rotating your hand out slightly
@@hurhurhurhurhruhrurh yea I think thats probably the right thing to do because certain dip bars that have wider handles give me more pain than other more narrow ones
The barbell bench press is good for bragging, but not much else. It'll also destroy your shoulders over time. Cables, dumbbells, and push ups are the ticket to a bigger chest.
Bs lol. The bench press is king of all presses when performed correctly, and 90% of the people who don't do it because it "hurts" them just don't do it right.
@@overlord6815 lol you sound like you just started lifting weights a week ago.
@@joem3502 Haha, what an amazing comeback. Literally don't know how I'm gonna respond to that one. Grow up.
I've been lifting for 6 years now. I bench 380 and guess what? My chest, shoulders and triceps are big. I don't do flies, I don't do dumbbell presses, and I don't do pushups. Why? Because the bench press is King. Just like I said earlier, the people who don't make gains benching are either the ones who are very weak at it or don't perform it right. So which one are you?
Bench press will "destroy your shoulders over time" but push press, jerks, behind the neck press snatch press and catching overhead from snatch aren't? I would argue that the latter movements mentioned will do a better job at "[destroying] your shoulders over time" in relations to bench. and why the fuck would a weightlifter be doing cables and push ups, no one does them.
No cArRyOvEr, boring and chest doms being pretty much the absolute worst thing to have when doing anything overhead
Do u think Dips could replace the Benchpress for real Athletes?
Don't see why not if you are not a powerlifter. Deep dips work triceps, chest and front delt pretty completely. Add in weighted progressions and you are set.
@@rustyshackleford8473 lmao what a pretentious moronic thing to say
Do both. Ez solution
18th
That Jamie Oliver's a bollocks
This is incorrect. Bench press work against weightlifting movements. That is the reason. These guys don’t know what the duck they are talking about.
Everyone subscribing to this myth has never seen Clarence Bench 200kg
God i hate powerlifters so much
Guys.
Why talking so much?
Bench Press is not part of olympic Weightlifting.
So there is no reason to train it....
Less upper body muscles? Tell that to the Chinese 89kg. Or carlos.N