The text is significant though - Jody should have found someone to translate it: - official watch says: China, Tianjin Watch Factory (which is the official name of the 1955 founded watch company) - unofficial says just: China, Tianjin
As a general point, what I really like about it as well as a few similar watches (e.g. the Red Star chronograph) is the fact that it’s openly, proudly Chinese. It’s not trying to knock something else off or trying to hide what it is. Even if Chinese watches are (massively) less desirable than Swiss or Japanese watches, the mere fact that it’s something authentic makes it desirable in its own right.
@@genghiskhan7041 you didn't name your turd after an Italian luxury turd brand and copied the design of some world famous much more high quality turds so yes, I would respect your turd more for being authentic. Reminder that all Japanese technology was considered cheap trash a few decades ago and 90+% of Swiss watchmakers went bankrupt during the quartz revolution because they got outdone by Japanese watches in every way from price to quality. Things change.
I own the unofficial one. Seeing them compared side by side. I prefer the warmer look and the larger bezel of the unofficial one, it gives it a more vintage feel. Last time I checked it's accuracy was within +-2 seconds
I think the official one is more beautiful. I have both, and the official strap is much more soft. Serial number on the case back makes the watch so special. The most important is the genuine 1963 has 2 years warranty. The fake one was a trash, it struck after 5-months running.
I own two of these. A 40mm Chrono Heritage M1963/X - SEA-GULL ST1901 bought directly from Sugess Watch in China and a 40mm limited edition Red Star bronze Seagull 1963 that came from the official Seagull 1963 store in Belgium. The Seagull is a watch that is hard to fault and I‘m quite fond of both of mine but my customer experience with both companies was hardly satisfactory. In sum I was swindled twice. The Sugess was supposed to come with the Swan Neck movement but didn‘t and unfortunately too much time had elapsed before I found out for me to be able to do anything about it. As for the Belgian Seagull 1963, it was only after I had received it that I found out that they do not individually number their limited edition watches (instead all 300 are numbered 1/300) and that it was missing it‘s tag, manual and registration QR code. It was also shipped about two months past it‘s preassigned shipping date. The company in Belgium casually dismissed my concerns and when I asked to return it they informed me that the 14 day return policy had expired. Be very careful who you buy from. The Seagull 1963 company in Belgium seems rotten to the core. I wouldn’t deal with them again if they paid me. BEWARE.
Bought an unofficial one recently and I'm very happy. The sapphire is worth it even though the bezel is a bit chunky and the display back is nice. A good watch.
Sea-gull are shooting themselves in the foot by overpricing these and making them limited. If they made these 200 dolars and regular production, they would effectively kill the market for other variants.
They are all probably owned by the same Chinese firms and wouldn't be surprised if they are made in the same factory... so the official may be there to be a high margin cash grab while the rest are there for the average Joe looking for a bargain.
Thanks for the video Jody! For the bottom Chinese text, the unofficial version says "China, Tianjin", while official version says "China" on the top, and "Tianjin watch factory" on the bottom. Another interesting thing is that if you do a bit of digging around, some Aliexpress stores also list an unofficial version that is advertised to have a modified movement with a gooseneck regulator for about $10 extra - I don't have that version, or know if they are as advertised, but it's something people might want to look into.
Glad someone pointed the text out. I actually think it's significant because Tianjin Watch Factory was the original name of Sea-gull and that original name was used in 1955 when it was founded.
@@simonrobbins8357 My Seagull 1963 has "Made in China" written on it, but in Traditional Chinese rather than Simplified Chinese (中國製造) rather than (中国制造). I guess it would be accurate if it was trying to look like it was made before China switched to the simplified system.
Thank you Jody for this video. For a good interpretation it would have been even more explicit to compare two versions with the same acrylic glass. For information, since 2 or 3 years the unofficial versions have a transparent back with a larger opening than the one in the video. It would also have been nice to open the official version to see if the finish is better as claimed by some people. I think that the official version benefits from selected movements, the standard movements being intended for the other suppliers but nothing imho that justifies such a huge price difference.
I've scoured reddit threads and apparently people are saying that the unofficial version starts to show signs of weakness after a few months or years (1 or 2 years, depending on how often the watch is worn), with some saying that the watch can't be a daily driver. Apparently, on the official version, the movements are checked and inspected, so they don't suffer from the weaknesses of the unofficial version, and even though it's more expensive, that's why I'm leaning towards buying the official version. I want to keep this watch for years, even my whole life, so I go for quality! (I lived in China for years, so there's also a sentimental value for me in having this Chinese watch).
I have the unofficial version and prefer it. The display case back and sapphire crystal are improvements that I like. I am not a fan of cloth straps so I put a shark mesh band on mine. The polished mesh works well with the all polished case.
I remember talking about this 3 years ago in a previous video. Nice research. One more thing I'd like to add, the movement on the genuine is signed by Seagull and visibly has more quality than the 3rd party one. Btw got mine on 11/11/2019 at the great price of 250 euros (sales + coupons)
Thanks for this video, I’ve often wondered the exact same thing as I went to buy my 63 two months ago. I bought through Red Star the apparent non-official, 42mm, sapphire, display case back, and I love it, took off the green nato and put on the leather strap. It’s one of the few mechanicals I bought that I’ve never opened to regulate, it keeps crazy excellent time.
i went red star as well, really wanted the display case back and a factory made watch. Though i really like the smaller bezel on the orginal now that i see it, the bezel reflects a bit of light and toneing that down through a smaller bezel could be really nice.
@@eric21881The larger bezel is only on the unofficial one on this video because he chose the sapphire crystal. You can have the unofficial one identical to the official with the exception of the face printing.
I still think that the Red Star one is more original than the original, as it was Mr. Red Star himself, when he worked for Sea-Gull, to resurrect this watch from the dead and launch it back in the early 2000s.
I bought mine from Marc at LIW and gave $379.00 USD for the sapphire sandwich and the swans neck regulator. About 18 months ago. I also bought an inexpensive stainless mesh strap that really makes it pop. Fine reviewJody! Thanks
Jazz, do you know of an oyster or other stainless steel bracelet that will fit reasonably well on this 18 mm lug-lug case? I will greatly appreciate any suggestions you have. It seems difficult shot as the lugs are unusually long.
I just picked up the “unofficial” version and really like the display back & that’s what caused me to go “unofficial”. Cheaper with more features & still the same movement, case and dial? Yea. It was a no brainer for picking up another fun military inspired timepiece
This is the dilemma I run into in everything that I collect. Fragrance, sneakers, etc. If someone is making the exact same thing for a quarter of the price, it makes it difficult to buy the 'official' product. If it can be sold at a quarter of the price it means that the original has artificially inflated the price due to the brand name, so I don't really feel bad buying the dupe/clone/rep. If the price is within 20-30% then sure I don't mind supporting the original company, and celebrating their IP, but when companies wildly inflate the price because they are dining out on reputation and brand name I feel less likely to do so.
Great video. The movement is regardless excellent. The back story is fascinating, with Seagull buying the design and equipment to make it, and add more jewels.
Love my unauthentic seagull. Think if I was so inclined (I am not) I would get the official one. It would make you feel like a Prince knowing everyone else is rocking a unauthentic knockoff and you have the real deal.
I'm not buying the "official" label. We've been over this before Jody, and I reckon that Sea-Gull have a very tenuous at best claim to being official, they had not made this watch for decades until an ex-employee set up a deal to revive it in Hong Kong and Sea-Gull would supply movements. I reckon Sea-Gull got greedy. Great video Jody, I love my little 1963 with acrylic crystal and view it for what it is - a Chinese watch where every second batch has differences, usually in the sub-dial hands
Jody I am really glad it was you who made this video as it’s been screaming out to be made for years. You have the cams conclusion as me and many others. It’s far too expensive for what it is and for the old tech. The Sea-Gull movements tend to have a swan neck regulator which for tinkerers like me is useful but for an owner who can’t even see it under the case back it’s pointless. I have the cheaper version and love it for what it is. A very affordable double register mechanical chronograph. Brilliant to learn how the movement works on too. You would have to be a bit mad to buy the same watch for $600 especially when the cheap one also comes on sapphire if you want it. For the price they want there are far better watches out there so like you say you would have to REALLY want one. Good video mate.
I bought the unofficial version from the Sugess store about a year ago. 40mm with Sapphire, it's working great, keeping fine time. Looks great with different straps from various companies.
I understood that Tianjin Seagull Watch Group produce movement for Shenzhenshi Sugess Timepiece Development Company. ST19 Chronograph Movement produced by Tianjin Seagull Watch Group for the iconic Sugess chronograph model known as (21 Zuan) Seagull 1963. I bought from Sugess also and for me it's Official because it's produced by Tianjin Seagull Watch Group.
I can't bring myself to get one because of that red star and it's implications, yet I have zero problem getting a flieger. I'm not saying it makes sense, but that's the only reason I haven't bought one. Maybe one day I'll get over it. 😎
I dunno, I think I would feel like I was on guard duty in Outer Mongolia wearing that watch. Maybe a cheerier setting for the movement, like the Sugess chrono Breitling homages.
My 1963 came from Seakoss. The NATO strap it came with was much nicer, and it came with a brown leather that's nice too. That brown leather strap dresses it up way nicer than I expected.
Hey Jody. Glad you did a comparison video. Nice to see the two side by side. The ST19 is one of the nicest movements to look at. It deserves to have an exhibition caseback. IMO. Good video, buddy.
The extra line of text on the official watch is just two characters but I think it looks better with the single line. It's a minor thing really but all of the other differences are pretty trivial as well. It would never enter my mind to pay that much for one of these. Great video!
First line means China = Zhōngguó (as in made in China). The second line means Tianjin Watch factory = Tiānjin shōubiăo chăng (where the original Sea-Gull was made back in 1963)
Word is that the expensive version has such things as actual quality control with their movements. What kept me from buying one of the cheaper ones was the number of posts of people complaining about their watch failing within the first year of ownership. Right now, I would go for a quartz (!) version of the watch. The cheapest option, also made in china with the iconic look but reliable.
Hi Jody, I got the unofficial one at your recommendation some time ago with the sapphire crystal. Been pleased with it ever since you are right about the straps, I am planning on putting mine on a SS Milanese strap.
Justifying over $200 on that movement is insanity. I could leave a watch with that movement in the next city and hear it ticking while in my bedroom and a pillow over my head. I dig the aesthetic, and respect to the design. But the noise of that thing. OOF! Thanks for the video Jody!
A limited edition of any published work, product, artwork, etc usually has a higher price tag. As well as price, consider: * customer service * maintenance * authenticity * accuracy * reliability * durability * longevity.
I have wondered about QC differences between the two. I have two unofficial ones and both required work within 6 months which I was able to do myself. (One was a loose screw preventing chrono running and the other was the chrono reset in the movement broke and I bought a spare movement for parts to fix it).
Mine doesn't look like either of those lol. It's a 42mm, sapphire, signed crown, display caseback, swan's neck regulator. It has basically no bezel to speak of and the side profile of the case doesn't look at all like either of these. These look like a hamburger shape from the side. Mine looks coved, it gradually curves in from the belt-line at the top of the lugs always down to the caseback. Both of yours have a solid bevel connecting front lug to back. Mine doesn't have that symmetrical side profile. The case back is identical though strangely. Mine is clearly a fake but, I kinda like it, the profile makes it look more dressy and less utilitarian. I think it's a Red Star.
Great video mate, very useful, thanks! There is also a manufacturer in Hong Kong who makes different and very interesting versions of these watches, they are called HKED, it would be cool if you could review one of their pieces.
I just pulled the trigger on the Sugess unofficial Segull 1963! It’s far better than the original as it has a sapphire crystal and a see through case back with the gold plated swan neck adjuster. There is zero reason to buy the official one for 3x the price when the movement infact is from the Tianjin factory so essentially both are same!
And mine is a mash of both... two text lines and see through case back. Text on dial says "China", and below "Tianjin Watch Factory". At least according to Google translate. The back says "Replica of the First Aviation Chronograph Watch Made for The Chinese Air Force", and the dial is cream color. Bought it from the Sugess official store.
I finally get one. Sapphire 40mm with a swan/goose neck regulator. Wow...just wow. I cannot say anything else to express myself. What an astonishing piece of watchmaking.
I need an acrylic crystal and it's a Red Star from Marc at Long Island and believe he sells the Red Star brand, my hope is the domed crystal is the same on both watches and i can find a new piece!
The movements that Sea-Gull uses for the watches they produce themselves are top-grade movements, whereas the third-party manufacturers have to settle with whatever quality they can get their hands on.
Definitely not true, seagull produces a ton of these movements, it is possible they have a bit tighter margins for their own, but at only 5500 units there are still so much movements left that this wouldn't make a difference. I have a strela reproduction which uses the st19 movement and it runs +0+1. Also unofficial movements can have swan neck regulators which makes it very easy to regulate
@@Louiscare I really doubt, Sea-Gull used that chronograph movement solely for this 1963 model. Also, it doesn't mean that the top grade movements are unavailable for purchase for third party manufacturers. I'm only stating, that Sea-Gull itself uses only their top-grade movements for their watches.
@@Aleister82 I totally agree with you, judging by the plethora of posts about non-officials, lots of people have reliability problems with their watches. As you say, the official version of Seagull uses the best movements, top quality, whereas it's not uncommon for non-official watches to break after 8 months, a year or even two years. People call it a disposable 'watch', and in Europe you can get it for between 250 and 350 euros, depending on where the unofficial one comes from. Personally, I don't feel like throwing away 300-400 euros, so that's why I'm going for the official version. It's more expensive, but it'll last.
I got it for my wife, its her dress watch! Absolutely gorgeous movement. If you are looking for a beautiful movement this is the one to go for. Its best on leather
I have the unofficial version. I bought through your link, last year. The one thing i don't like, is the lume on hands. Tinny, unnecessary, and brake the stetics on my opinion.
The prices of all watches have gone up in the past few years. I've got two Swiss watches that have gone up 25% in price since purchase 3 years ago, so this is nothing out of the norm. That being said, I've got the official Sea-Gull 22 ZUAN w/sapphire crystal...love it.
The applied indices are more refined in the Sea-Gull version and better looking, IMHO. I also prefer the bezel on the Sea-Gull version. But is it $400 better looking? I don't think so. Thanks for the comparison!
@@SleepyRainRealm I bet you are right. Watching Jody constantly makes me want to buy more watches. Sometimes I throw in a quartz to keep the prize down.
If it were to have official versions, we would all have omega's, rolex's and other original high-end watches... but it is not like that... thanks for clarifying the doubts of millions of people my dear, greetings from Caracas, Venezuela
Jody, I have one that I bought for £20 on AliExpress! My one looks identical to both these two watches. However my one is quartz and the dimensions seem a bit bigger
4:45 watch A has a badly driven chronograph that has to be more carrefuly regulared on the engaging wheel => look at the chronograph hand : no fluid movement but some jumps ...
I've been an admirer of the 63 for a while now & was genuinely flummoxed why they had a huge price difference. I've seen an unofficial watch for £105 & an official for £549. Now, as much as I would prefer an official, I'm not prepared to lay five times more. Great video, I know more now. 👍🏼
I have an "unofficial" version. Love its design, but the chrongraph second hand suddenly gave up the ghost. Don't know if others have had this problem, but it makes me wonder about the quality of these movements.
@@sinjinadams2862 It was about 8 months old when the stopwatch suddenly failed. I also find the movement difficult to wind, but the accuracy is pretty good, only losing about 5 seconds a day. However, the power reserve is only about 30 hours. It would have been interesting to see if the two models shared the same specs these areas.
But mine seems to be a mixture....two lines of text, no star on the crown an acrylic or sapphire option, mine is acrylic, and a display back if you ordered the extra back. I bought it from a Dutch site and it came in a nice tin with a red star and Chinese writing. Cost about £150 or thereabouts.
I think you needed to pop the case back off & see if that movement appeared to be of a different (higher) grade for a more decisive conclusion . I've broken one of those just by winding it slowly ten times from a dead stop . 🥺
>$1k AUD for a 1963 is absolutely insane. The watch is just NOT worth that kind of money. You're talking a really nice Swiss auto for that, even maybe a Valjoux chrono. That's nuts.
This watch is a replica of the first watch in outer space, Russian Strela. The design is almost identical and it uses Russian Poljot 3133 Caliber, Russians bought the machines for manufacturing the caliber in the 70s
I do like the Sea-Gull Chronograph,its odd i feel hard pressed to buy the Official Sea-Gull because of the price,however I am less bothered the price of the Baltic Bicompax.They both use the Sea-Gull ST1901 movement.Maybe I will get all 3.
FYI, the text on A's dial is "China TianJin wristwatch factory", and that on B's dial is "China Tianjin". No doubt that tracks with what we know about these wristwatches.
None of them are "ORIGINAL". The original one has another logo instead of the star... it has an arrow with an oval thingy as the logo. The original vintage Seagull 1963 that was used by Chinese Airforce. Sea-Gull "official" is the one who purchased the rights to make the watch entirely, but they're selling the movement to many other watch makers, including the next one below. Seagull "unofficial" buys the movement from Sea-Gull and they make theyr own version... that is almost identical, BUT they offer sapphire glass and ofcourse, the transparent back so you can see the movement. The $400 more for the same movement and without having transparent back and sapphire glass... is not worthed. In my opinion, Sea-Gull "official" or Seagull "unofficial" are both... "official" since they're both using the identical movement as the vintage one, they are both equal... "official" but not ORIGINAL.
For the those focusing on price and carefree use, Heimdallr store has a 40 mil., saphire versión with a Miyota 6S21 quartz movement for ca. 85€ with VAT. So, if you want the looks and do not really mind the movement and its history, that is an option. Regards
The official non-sale price is starting to get close to Swiss chrono prices, like it's over half the price of some of Hamilton's offerings. I'd be hard pressed to pick an octogenarian movement over that at that price. But the cheap one is still a great buy.
With the minor differences between the two and the vast difference in price, there's only one that I'd be going for. Thanks for the comparison review Jody.
@@JustOneMoreWatch It's more like the gap between big brands and AliExpress homages... But I guess, in a way that's exactly what it is. Still a bit odd though.
I'd probably pay, at most, $30 or so more for the official watch, all else being equal. One question I don't think has been addressed: is there a warranty or support difference? That might sway it. Honestly I love the look of the unofficial one's sapphire and bezel and I"m a sucker for case backs, so I'd save the extra $400 and get what I wanted more in the first place. Thanks, Jody :D
Well both watches have to go back to China, but I think there would be more value in the 2 year warranty of the original. I should have mentioned that, you are right!
@@JustOneMoreWatch I never see a review from Sugess in this channel. I think they have great offering that might be good value for you to highlight. Great vid, great content as usual.🙏
Proud to say I just purchased my first Seagull I will get it appraised @ 4:05 he mentioned he did not know what the text meant; well using snap pic of my own and google translate top text is CHINA or zhong guo and bottom text is Tianjin watch factory.. my model is the Panda which doesnt look the same the numbers are Bars not Numerical Digits not sure if that makes a difference ... the back cover also is engraved with CLASSIC EDITION .... any one that as information please reply back to help the rest of the community ... this is my first investment watch and turns out its muddy waters to start but I am not detoured from future purchases I will only buy watches I am willing to wear so even if its a waste of money its really not because I still have a watch style I enjoy. Congrats to all whom start and good luck to you all.
You should have known that any unofficial/fake version is adding value to the true version. The more the fake models are, the better for the official one.
I bought mine unofficial sapphire version in 2020 for about 125$,some good discount then,movement is smooth,the best timegrapher results of all my chinese collection.There are also "knock-offs" with Hangzhou movement available now.
Interestingly Sea-Gull now do a 40mm version of the 1963. The minute hand extends to the edge of the dial, unlike the non-official 40s which use the 38mm hand sets. Plus, you get a sapphire crystal.
Less text on the dial, display case back, and the option for sapphire? I think I prefer the cheaper option!
That’s the one I’ve had for 10 months. It’s working perfectly and looks great.
The text is significant though - Jody should have found someone to translate it:
- official watch says: China, Tianjin Watch Factory (which is the official name of the 1955 founded watch company)
- unofficial says just: China, Tianjin
@@alectang1614 one of my friends told me it means Tianjin Watch Factory or something like that.
@@alectang1614 significant for some absolutely, still not sure that it's a $400 significance
100% a no brainer, cheaper wins hands down.
As a general point, what I really like about it as well as a few similar watches (e.g. the Red Star chronograph) is the fact that it’s openly, proudly Chinese. It’s not trying to knock something else off or trying to hide what it is.
Even if Chinese watches are (massively) less desirable than Swiss or Japanese watches, the mere fact that it’s something authentic makes it desirable in its own right.
Not really. I mean, I could crap in a box and it would be an authentic turd, but does that make it desirable?
@@genghiskhan7041 what a retarded point
@@genghiskhan7041 Depends. Is the author of said turd Marcel Duchamp or Jeff Koons?
@@Max_Mustermann Hey, how did you know I'm Marcel Duchamp?
@@genghiskhan7041 you didn't name your turd after an Italian luxury turd brand and copied the design of some world famous much more high quality turds so yes, I would respect your turd more for being authentic.
Reminder that all Japanese technology was considered cheap trash a few decades ago and 90+% of Swiss watchmakers went bankrupt during the quartz revolution because they got outdone by Japanese watches in every way from price to quality.
Things change.
I own the unofficial one. Seeing them compared side by side. I prefer the warmer look and the larger bezel of the unofficial one, it gives it a more vintage feel. Last time I checked it's accuracy was within +-2 seconds
The fake 1963 does not use a Seagull movement, the quality is very poor, and it supports the genuine 1963.
@@zhu8404, what movement has the unofficial inside?
@@J0hnny8ravo same same
@@zhu8404 lol
I think the official one is more beautiful. I have both, and the official strap is much more soft. Serial number on the case back makes the watch so special. The most important is the genuine 1963 has 2 years warranty. The fake one was a trash, it struck after 5-months running.
I own two of these. A 40mm Chrono Heritage M1963/X - SEA-GULL ST1901 bought directly from Sugess Watch in China and a 40mm limited edition Red Star bronze Seagull 1963 that came from the official Seagull 1963 store in Belgium. The Seagull is a watch that is hard to fault and I‘m quite fond of both of mine but my customer experience with both companies was hardly satisfactory. In sum I was swindled twice. The Sugess was supposed to come with the Swan Neck movement but didn‘t and unfortunately too much time had elapsed before I found out for me to be able to do anything about it. As for the Belgian Seagull 1963, it was only after I had received it that I found out that they do not individually number their limited edition watches (instead all 300 are numbered 1/300) and that it was missing it‘s tag, manual and registration QR code. It was also shipped about two months past it‘s preassigned shipping date. The company in Belgium casually dismissed my concerns and when I asked to return it they informed me that the 14 day return policy had expired. Be very careful who you buy from. The Seagull 1963 company in Belgium seems rotten to the core. I wouldn’t deal with them again if they paid me. BEWARE.
Bought an unofficial one recently and I'm very happy. The sapphire is worth it even though the bezel is a bit chunky and the display back is nice. A good watch.
Sea-gull are shooting themselves in the foot by overpricing these and making them limited. If they made these 200 dolars and regular production, they would effectively kill the market for other variants.
They are all probably owned by the same Chinese firms and wouldn't be surprised if they are made in the same factory... so the official may be there to be a high margin cash grab while the rest are there for the average Joe looking for a bargain.
Thanks for the video Jody! For the bottom Chinese text, the unofficial version says "China, Tianjin", while official version says "China" on the top, and "Tianjin watch factory" on the bottom.
Another interesting thing is that if you do a bit of digging around, some Aliexpress stores also list an unofficial version that is advertised to have a modified movement with a gooseneck regulator for about $10 extra - I don't have that version, or know if they are as advertised, but it's something people might want to look into.
Glad someone pointed the text out. I actually think it's significant because Tianjin Watch Factory was the original name of Sea-gull and that original name was used in 1955 when it was founded.
Oh great - now I have to wait for Jody's "Is a gooseneck regulator worth $10" video! ;-)
Oh the irony 😉 That China, the master's of the copycat get ripped off by - the Chinese 😁👍
@@simonrobbins8357 My Seagull 1963 has "Made in China" written on it, but in Traditional Chinese rather than Simplified Chinese (中國製造) rather than (中国制造). I guess it would be accurate if it was trying to look like it was made before China switched to the simplified system.
@@simonrobbins8357 Yeah, I'm from Taiwan so the characters didn't even stand out as being wrong until I saw this video lol
I bought a 38mm official version for $350USD about four years ago. The movement winds smooth and has a quality feel to it.
Wow you are lucky now it's 628 USD!!! I really like the official one but I'm kinda torn on if I should get the official or unofficial
@@johnking9999 Wow, had no idea they cost so much now. On the other hand its a well made watch and the movement seems first class.
Thank you Jody for this video. For a good interpretation it would have been even more explicit to compare two versions with the same acrylic glass. For information, since 2 or 3 years the unofficial versions have a transparent back with a larger opening than the one in the video. It would also have been nice to open the official version to see if the finish is better as claimed by some people. I think that the official version benefits from selected movements, the standard movements being intended for the other suppliers but nothing imho that justifies such a huge price difference.
The fake 1963 does not use a Seagull movement, the quality is very poor, and it supports the genuine 1963.
@@zhu8404 thats completely false bro
I've scoured reddit threads and apparently people are saying that the unofficial version starts to show signs of weakness after a few months or years (1 or 2 years, depending on how often the watch is worn), with some saying that the watch can't be a daily driver. Apparently, on the official version, the movements are checked and inspected, so they don't suffer from the weaknesses of the unofficial version, and even though it's more expensive, that's why I'm leaning towards buying the official version. I want to keep this watch for years, even my whole life, so I go for quality! (I lived in China for years, so there's also a sentimental value for me in having this Chinese watch).
I also went for the official one. . . Too many variants out there for the unofficial ones, I was at a loss which to pick. . .
I have the unofficial version and prefer it. The display case back and sapphire crystal are improvements that I like. I am not a fan of cloth straps so I put a shark mesh band on mine. The polished mesh works well with the all polished case.
What’s the best place to purchase this watch?
I remember talking about this 3 years ago in a previous video. Nice research.
One more thing I'd like to add, the movement on the genuine is signed by Seagull and visibly has more quality than the 3rd party one. Btw got mine on 11/11/2019 at the great price of 250 euros (sales + coupons)
Thanks for this video, I’ve often wondered the exact same thing as I went to buy my 63 two months ago. I bought through Red Star the apparent non-official, 42mm, sapphire, display case back, and I love it, took off the green nato and put on the leather strap. It’s one of the few mechanicals I bought that I’ve never opened to regulate, it keeps crazy excellent time.
i went red star as well, really wanted the display case back and a factory made watch. Though i really like the smaller bezel on the orginal now that i see it, the bezel reflects a bit of light and toneing that down through a smaller bezel could be really nice.
@@eric21881The larger bezel is only on the unofficial one on this video because he chose the sapphire crystal. You can have the unofficial one identical to the official with the exception of the face printing.
I still think that the Red Star one is more original than the original, as it was Mr. Red Star himself, when he worked for Sea-Gull, to resurrect this watch from the dead and launch it back in the early 2000s.
I bought mine from Marc at LIW and gave $379.00 USD for the sapphire sandwich and the swans neck regulator. About 18 months ago. I also bought an inexpensive stainless mesh strap that really makes it pop. Fine reviewJody! Thanks
Big UPS to Marc & the team at LIW 💯
Jazz, do you know of an oyster or other stainless steel bracelet that will fit reasonably well on this 18 mm lug-lug case? I will greatly appreciate any suggestions you have. It seems difficult shot as the lugs are unusually long.
I just picked up the “unofficial” version and really like the display back & that’s what caused me to go “unofficial”. Cheaper with more features & still the same movement, case and dial? Yea. It was a no brainer for picking up another fun military inspired timepiece
This is the dilemma I run into in everything that I collect. Fragrance, sneakers, etc.
If someone is making the exact same thing for a quarter of the price, it makes it difficult to buy the 'official' product.
If it can be sold at a quarter of the price it means that the original has artificially inflated the price due to the brand name, so I don't really feel bad buying the dupe/clone/rep.
If the price is within 20-30% then sure I don't mind supporting the original company, and celebrating their IP, but when companies wildly inflate the price because they are dining out on reputation and brand name I feel less likely to do so.
Of course, often the cheaper version is much lower quality
Another enjoyable video where you could get away buying the imitation as just as nice. Great review Jody!
The fake 1963 does not use a Seagull movement, the quality is very poor, and it supports the genuine 1963.
The official store now also has a sapphire crystal and display case version
Great video. The movement is regardless excellent. The back story is fascinating, with Seagull buying the design and equipment to make it, and add more jewels.
I bought the unofficial one because of the exhibition caseback. It's a beautiful movement to be seen
Love my unauthentic seagull.
Think if I was so inclined (I am not) I would get the official one. It would make you feel like a Prince knowing everyone else is rocking a unauthentic knockoff and you have the real deal.
I just bought the 38mm unofficial version. Beautiful watch. I love wearing it. I don't care what others think.
That's the way to go 👌
I'm not buying the "official" label. We've been over this before Jody, and I reckon that Sea-Gull have a very tenuous at best claim to being official, they had not made this watch for decades until an ex-employee set up a deal to revive it in Hong Kong and Sea-Gull would supply movements. I reckon Sea-Gull got greedy.
Great video Jody, I love my little 1963 with acrylic crystal and view it for what it is - a Chinese watch where every second batch has differences, usually in the sub-dial hands
They are a great watch but I will be sticking to the cheaper option.
But was great seeing them side by side
Jody I am really glad it was you who made this video as it’s been screaming out to be made for years. You have the cams conclusion as me and many others. It’s far too expensive for what it is and for the old tech. The Sea-Gull movements tend to have a swan neck regulator which for tinkerers like me is useful but for an owner who can’t even see it under the case back it’s pointless.
I have the cheaper version and love it for what it is. A very affordable double register mechanical chronograph. Brilliant to learn how the movement works on too.
You would have to be a bit mad to buy the same watch for $600 especially when the cheap one also comes on sapphire if you want it.
For the price they want there are far better watches out there so like you say you would have to REALLY want one.
Good video mate.
It's interesting and refreshing to see an unapologetic Chinese product. Proudly Chinese and not pretending to be a European or Japanese watch.
Picked up a 1963 a few months ago thinking it had an acrylic crystal. Turned out it had a double dome AR crystal and in 40mm
I bought the unofficial version from the Sugess store about a year ago. 40mm with Sapphire, it's working great, keeping fine time. Looks great with different straps from various companies.
I understood that Tianjin Seagull Watch Group produce movement for Shenzhenshi Sugess Timepiece Development Company. ST19 Chronograph Movement produced by Tianjin Seagull Watch Group for the iconic Sugess chronograph model known as (21 Zuan) Seagull 1963. I bought from Sugess also and for me it's Official because it's produced by Tianjin Seagull Watch Group.
And is mechanical chrono?
I was wondering the same thing while browsing on Aliexpress. Thanks for clarifying!
I can't bring myself to get one because of that red star and it's implications, yet I have zero problem getting a flieger. I'm not saying it makes sense, but that's the only reason I haven't bought one. Maybe one day I'll get over it. 😎
Same for me. Buying one of these watches is like endorsing active and horrendous human rights abuse. Like, it's happening right now.
@@TheMainCore lmao
I heard the story that both are actually official. A manufacturer in HK got the official authorization from seagull to produce the ‘unofficial’ one.
Actually that comes up in Jody’s previous video. I always thought Sea-Gull was protesting too much on that basis alone.
I dunno, I think I would feel like I was on guard duty in Outer Mongolia wearing that watch. Maybe a cheerier setting for the movement, like the Sugess chrono Breitling homages.
My 1963 came from Seakoss. The NATO strap it came with was much nicer, and it came with a brown leather that's nice too. That brown leather strap dresses it up way nicer than I expected.
Hey Jody. Glad you did a comparison video. Nice to see the two side by side. The ST19 is one of the nicest movements to look at. It deserves to have an exhibition caseback. IMO. Good video, buddy.
The extra line of text on the official watch is just two characters but I think it looks better with the single line. It's a minor thing really but all of the other differences are pretty trivial as well. It would never enter my mind to pay that much for one of these. Great video!
First line means China = Zhōngguó (as in made in China). The second line means Tianjin Watch factory = Tiānjin shōubiăo chăng (where the original Sea-Gull was made back in 1963)
Word is that the expensive version has such things as actual quality control with their movements. What kept me from buying one of the cheaper ones was the number of posts of people complaining about their watch failing within the first year of ownership. Right now, I would go for a quartz (!) version of the watch. The cheapest option, also made in china with the iconic look but reliable.
Hi Jody, I got the unofficial one at your recommendation some time ago with the sapphire crystal. Been pleased with it ever since you are right about the straps, I am planning on putting mine on a SS Milanese strap.
The unofficial one is much better the displayed case back alone made my mind up! Its pointless with a closed display case
I have the unofficial but it has the signed crown and slimmer bezel and I love it.
Justifying over $200 on that movement is insanity. I could leave a watch with that movement in the next city and hear it ticking while in my bedroom and a pillow over my head. I dig the aesthetic, and respect to the design. But the noise of that thing. OOF! Thanks for the video Jody!
Definitely the display back is a huge advantage. That movement is the most beautiful in the budget space
I have a Sugess 40mm. Was inexpensive. I love it, it's great
A limited edition of any published work, product, artwork, etc usually has a higher price tag.
As well as price, consider:
* customer service
* maintenance
* authenticity
* accuracy
* reliability
* durability
* longevity.
I have wondered about QC differences between the two. I have two unofficial ones and both required work within 6 months which I was able to do myself. (One was a loose screw preventing chrono running and the other was the chrono reset in the movement broke and I bought a spare movement for parts to fix it).
the replica does say "复刻版“ or "replica version" on the case back.
Mine doesn't look like either of those lol. It's a 42mm, sapphire, signed crown, display caseback, swan's neck regulator. It has basically no bezel to speak of and the side profile of the case doesn't look at all like either of these. These look like a hamburger shape from the side. Mine looks coved, it gradually curves in from the belt-line at the top of the lugs always down to the caseback. Both of yours have a solid bevel connecting front lug to back. Mine doesn't have that symmetrical side profile. The case back is identical though strangely. Mine is clearly a fake but, I kinda like it, the profile makes it look more dressy and less utilitarian. I think it's a Red Star.
Great video mate, very useful, thanks! There is also a manufacturer in Hong Kong who makes different and very interesting versions of these watches, they are called HKED, it would be cool if you could review one of their pieces.
A big difference used to be that the left chrono blue hand was unequal to the right one on the official and simetric on the unofficial.
I just pulled the trigger on the Sugess unofficial Segull 1963! It’s far better than the original as it has a sapphire crystal and a see through case back with the gold plated swan neck adjuster. There is zero reason to buy the official one for 3x the price when the movement infact is from the Tianjin factory so essentially both are same!
mine has two lines of text and a display caseback 🙂 Clearly unofficial, but still a stunning little watch
And mine is a mash of both... two text lines and see through case back. Text on dial says "China", and below "Tianjin Watch Factory". At least according to Google translate.
The back says "Replica of the First Aviation Chronograph Watch Made for The Chinese Air Force", and the dial is cream color.
Bought it from the Sugess official store.
I finally get one.
Sapphire 40mm with a swan/goose neck regulator.
Wow...just wow. I cannot say anything else to express myself. What an astonishing piece of watchmaking.
id opt for the aliexpress $150 option 🎉😂
Very interesting video dear Jody but i'm more interested in your T-shirt ... Looks cool Bro !!!
Great video Jody, I own the unofficial version and I am happy with it, no need to spend de extra money, i am waiting on a moonswatch to arrive.
I need an acrylic crystal and it's a Red Star from Marc at Long Island and believe he sells the Red Star brand, my hope is the domed crystal is the same on both watches and i can find a new piece!
Me! I just prefer the Acrylic, on the cheaper watch. It just seems more period authentic. Although sounds like it can be bought cheap,too?
The cheaper one is sapphire!
This video is a subtle commentary of reps vs. genuine pricing. Looking at you Rolex.
For the unofficial one, the display case back says"Seagull "Reissue of the First Aviation Watch of the Chinese Air Force"
I got the official version from eBay in 2020 for around $200 second hand. It’s not numbered though.
The movements that Sea-Gull uses for the watches they produce themselves are top-grade movements, whereas the third-party manufacturers have to settle with whatever quality they can get their hands on.
Definitely not true, seagull produces a ton of these movements, it is possible they have a bit tighter margins for their own, but at only 5500 units there are still so much movements left that this wouldn't make a difference. I have a strela reproduction which uses the st19 movement and it runs +0+1. Also unofficial movements can have swan neck regulators which makes it very easy to regulate
@@Louiscare I really doubt, Sea-Gull used that chronograph movement solely for this 1963 model. Also, it doesn't mean that the top grade movements are unavailable for purchase for third party manufacturers. I'm only stating, that Sea-Gull itself uses only their top-grade movements for their watches.
@@Aleister82 of course they don't, but why would they not advertise that their movements are of better accuracy ?
@@Aleister82 I totally agree with you, judging by the plethora of posts about non-officials, lots of people have reliability problems with their watches. As you say, the official version of Seagull uses the best movements, top quality, whereas it's not uncommon for non-official watches to break after 8 months, a year or even two years. People call it a disposable 'watch', and in Europe you can get it for between 250 and 350 euros, depending on where the unofficial one comes from. Personally, I don't feel like throwing away 300-400 euros, so that's why I'm going for the official version. It's more expensive, but it'll last.
I got it for my wife, its her dress watch! Absolutely gorgeous movement. If you are looking for a beautiful movement this is the one to go for. Its best on leather
I have the unofficial version. I bought through your link, last year. The one thing i don't like, is the lume on hands. Tinny, unnecessary, and brake the stetics on my opinion.
To be fair, sea gull is a pretty great watch company imo.
The prices of all watches have gone up in the past few years. I've got two Swiss watches that have gone up 25% in price since purchase 3 years ago, so this is nothing out of the norm. That being said, I've got the official Sea-Gull 22 ZUAN w/sapphire crystal...love it.
The applied indices are more refined in the Sea-Gull version and better looking, IMHO. I also prefer the bezel on the Sea-Gull version. But is it $400 better looking? I don't think so.
Thanks for the comparison!
Hey Jody, have you ever taken a look at the $25 quartz version of the seagull 1963? Great video as always. Greetings, Heiko
It seems like a scam
@@SleepyRainRealm you mean the quartz is a scam?
@@HeikosGarage I mean, they could be fake, I've seen them on Ali and for the pictures of the reviews they have poor quality compared to this watch
@@SleepyRainRealm I bet you are right. Watching Jody constantly makes me want to buy more watches. Sometimes I throw in a quartz to keep the prize down.
Both watches are cool, but with my budget, the unofficial version is the one I can afford.
If it were to have official versions, we would all have omega's, rolex's and other original high-end watches... but it is not like that... thanks for clarifying the doubts of millions of people my dear, greetings from Caracas, Venezuela
Jody, I have one that I bought for £20 on AliExpress! My one looks identical to both these two watches. However my one is quartz and the dimensions seem a bit bigger
4:45 watch A has a badly driven chronograph that has to be more carrefuly regulared on the engaging wheel
=> look at the chronograph hand : no fluid movement but some jumps ...
I've been an admirer of the 63 for a while now & was genuinely flummoxed why they had a huge price difference. I've seen an unofficial watch for £105 & an official for £549. Now, as much as I would prefer an official, I'm not prepared to lay five times more. Great video, I know more now. 👍🏼
I have an "unofficial" version. Love its design, but the chrongraph second hand suddenly gave up the ghost. Don't know if others have had this problem, but it makes me wonder about the quality of these movements.
How old was your watch? Reliability has always been an unanswered question for this movement.
@@sinjinadams2862 It was about 8 months old when the stopwatch suddenly failed. I also find the movement difficult to wind, but the accuracy is pretty good, only losing about 5 seconds a day. However, the power reserve is only about 30 hours. It would have been interesting to see if the two models shared the same specs these areas.
This is an important video. Thanks for making it!
But mine seems to be a mixture....two lines of text, no star on the crown an acrylic or sapphire option, mine is acrylic, and a display back if you ordered the extra back. I bought it from a Dutch site and it came in a nice tin with a red star and Chinese writing. Cost about £150 or thereabouts.
I bought the Sea-gull when I was living in China around 2018 for around $250. Love it.
I think you needed to pop the case back off & see if that movement appeared to be of a different (higher) grade for a more decisive conclusion . I've broken one of those just by winding it slowly ten times from a dead stop . 🥺
>$1k AUD for a 1963 is absolutely insane. The watch is just NOT worth that kind of money. You're talking a really nice Swiss auto for that, even maybe a Valjoux chrono. That's nuts.
Great lesson and always fun learning. Thanks for sharing Mate!
Thank you. This had been my on-going question until someone finally answered it for me on reddit.
Out of the two I'd go for the unofficial version but given the choice I'd get neither of them and buy the 'Hong Kong Ed' version instead.
I have one with 2 lines of text and display case back!
The two lines are actually
China
Tianjin Watch Factory (former seagull factory name)
I prefer the acrylic and exhibition case back so the unofficial one looks the best bet. When you factor in the price there is no contest.
This watch is a replica of the first watch in outer space, Russian Strela. The design is almost identical and it uses Russian Poljot 3133 Caliber, Russians bought the machines for manufacturing the caliber in the 70s
That huge domed crystal on the Sea-Gull looks nice, but I'd rather have a sapphire and the display caseback, and, of course, the lower price.
I was literally searching for a video like this yesterday. Was not able to find any on youtube. Thank you.
I do like the Sea-Gull Chronograph,its odd i feel hard pressed to buy the Official Sea-Gull because of the price,however I am less bothered the price of the Baltic Bicompax.They both use the Sea-Gull ST1901 movement.Maybe I will get all 3.
FYI, the text on A's dial is "China TianJin wristwatch factory", and that on B's dial is "China Tianjin". No doubt that tracks with what we know about these wristwatches.
None of them are "ORIGINAL". The original one has another logo instead of the star... it has an arrow with an oval thingy as the logo. The original vintage Seagull 1963 that was used by Chinese Airforce.
Sea-Gull "official" is the one who purchased the rights to make the watch entirely, but they're selling the movement to many other watch makers, including the next one below.
Seagull "unofficial" buys the movement from Sea-Gull and they make theyr own version... that is almost identical, BUT they offer sapphire glass and ofcourse, the transparent back so you can see the movement.
The $400 more for the same movement and without having transparent back and sapphire glass... is not worthed.
In my opinion, Sea-Gull "official" or Seagull "unofficial" are both... "official" since they're both using the identical movement as the vintage one, they are both equal... "official" but not ORIGINAL.
For the those focusing on price and carefree use, Heimdallr store has a 40 mil., saphire versión with a Miyota 6S21 quartz movement for ca. 85€ with VAT. So, if you want the looks and do not really mind the movement and its history, that is an option. Regards
Just ordered my first Brent!!! AM132-RD… no reviews online that I can see.
The official non-sale price is starting to get close to Swiss chrono prices, like it's over half the price of some of Hamilton's offerings. I'd be hard pressed to pick an octogenarian movement over that at that price. But the cheap one is still a great buy.
With the minor differences between the two and the vast difference in price, there's only one that I'd be going for. Thanks for the comparison review Jody.
If the gap was smaller, then maybe, but its a struggle at these prices mate. Cheers!
The fake 1963 does not use a Seagull movement, the quality is very poor, and it supports the genuine 1963.
@@JustOneMoreWatch It's more like the gap between big brands and AliExpress homages... But I guess, in a way that's exactly what it is. Still a bit odd though.
I'd probably pay, at most, $30 or so more for the official watch, all else being equal.
One question I don't think has been addressed: is there a warranty or support difference? That might sway it.
Honestly I love the look of the unofficial one's sapphire and bezel and I"m a sucker for case backs, so I'd save the extra $400 and get what I wanted more in the first place.
Thanks, Jody :D
Well both watches have to go back to China, but I think there would be more value in the 2 year warranty of the original. I should have mentioned that, you are right!
@@JustOneMoreWatch I never see a review from Sugess in this channel. I think they have great offering that might be good value for you to highlight. Great vid, great content as usual.🙏
Chinese warranty? lol
Proud to say I just purchased my first Seagull I will get it appraised @ 4:05 he mentioned he did not know what the text meant; well using snap pic of my own and google translate top text is CHINA or zhong guo and bottom text is Tianjin watch factory.. my model is the Panda which doesnt look the same the numbers are Bars not Numerical Digits not sure if that makes a difference ... the back cover also is engraved with CLASSIC EDITION .... any one that as information please reply back to help the rest of the community ... this is my first investment watch and turns out its muddy waters to start but I am not detoured from future purchases I will only buy watches I am willing to wear so even if its a waste of money its really not because I still have a watch style I enjoy. Congrats to all whom start and good luck to you all.
You should have known that any unofficial/fake version is adding value to the true version. The more the fake models are, the better for the official one.
I bought mine unofficial sapphire version in 2020 for about 125$,some good discount then,movement is smooth,the best timegrapher results of all my chinese collection.There are also "knock-offs" with Hangzhou movement available now.
I think they are making both , but saw a potencial gain puting out other version and depreciate the old one
Interestingly Sea-Gull now do a 40mm version of the 1963. The minute hand extends to the edge of the dial, unlike the non-official 40s which use the 38mm hand sets. Plus, you get a sapphire crystal.
As a big fan of chinese history and a studen studying chinese, i will be getting this watch probobly the cheaper one when i get my next paycheck.