The Unheard of Rule of Dialing In Your Amp Sims
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- čas přidán 13. 02. 2024
- Ed's Orig. Video : • How to set the optimal...
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in logic pro there is a "gain" plugin that can go before the amp sim to lower the input gain that way the guitar DI record level in the DAW can be normal and the interface level can be normal but lowered for the input of the amp sim ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Just started recording with interface input at zero only last week. Amp sims no longer have the high end artefacts and saggy low end. All the IRs that I thought were crap fizz-filters are now sounding great too.
I really don't know why this information wasn't circulating around 10 years ago when it seems that everyone was struggling with getting the LePou and TSE sims to sound good, and resorted to notching the shit out of them. I wasted so much time just sifting through endless cab packs trying to get something halfway decent when all it took was a bit of input setting.
It's all very well when folk say "just figure it out", but it's a mean way of thinking for such an essential step.
I feel this so hard
@@Sebastiansampson
I literally just tried this with the Neural DSP Gojira ampsim. It seemed to get rid of a lot of high end crackling artifacts that I've been dealing with.
You bring down the input level all the way on your interface and you're going to lose 'balls' and power in the sound.
@@adam2178 well...I'm just using a little ol Scarlett solo... For whatever reason, it made it sound better... Didn't lose any "balls" in the sound at all... Hell...what do I know. I'm no expert.
@@jerryfick8547 how much did you increase/decrease the input gain on the plugin itself? i'm also using a scarlett solo with Neural DSP Gojira but haven't tried anything yet
Amazing! It makes absolute sense.
I just don't know how to proceed with older amp sims that I still use today like Lepou plugins.
man this is a game changer ! thanks bro !
Happy to help!
This just blew my mind! Game changer for sure. I am guilty of thinking everything sounds awful . Thanks man
Anytime!
Should be interesting experimenting with this. Dude, almost at 1000 subs. Congrats for when that happens!
So close! Thanks!
This singlehandedly transformed my guitar sounds and unlocked even more tonal options in my amp sims. It seems like a no-brainer and yet I never thought about it
glad to help
Thanks Man !
No problem!
4:14 - This is me watching this video. I was playing with an NDSP preset called “Clean” something or other, and kept thinking, “Clean? I was going for muted clean tones, and it’s chugging! Why am I getting so much gain?!?” I sorta pieced it together, but this explains it so much better than I was understanding it.
Thank you!
You are welcome
Funny I saw another video on this recently so the info must finally be getting around. I switched to this about a month or two ago and yeah, it is MUCH better, will ever go back to anything other than 0 on the interface for guitar.
MUCH better. I agree
I saw Ed's video too. What an eye opener. Why has this been unknown for so long?
Agreed
Damn bro. This was some insane new info. You’re like the first person to comment on this. Waiting on Glenn Fricker and dudes to start blabbering on about this next!
Glad to help!
Many people have been talking about this for months or even years, Metal guys are just very late to the party since playing with high gain all the time was probably masking the issue. This was a lot more glaringly obvious to clean and Classic Rock players who couldn't dial in accurate low to mid gain sounds
Yupp I didn't know about this until literally a month ago
@@serpentsbane9166
I'm checking for some Brainworks Amp sims like Engl (that I love to much).
Thanks for the video
Glad to help man!
Their ENGL Savage 120 plugin chugs HARD. I use it on everything.
@@Ash-nh3mj agree with you, now I'm addicted to Savage Brainworx and Soldano from Neural DSP
Ok so I just went up to my computer. I’m using an SSL2+ and I had setup the input gain as we all thought to do.
Now I tuned the knob down all the way. Input one is set for Hi-Z operation. Guitar plugged straight in. I always did that part like that.
I opened up Genome and went through some patches I made last night. Lol. Now they are all practically clean. My input was so hot I was setting VST amps to maybe 2-3 on gain. With the new input level I set the gain to like 6-8 range and they don’t sound all blown out, fizzy scratchy.
Sigh. I wasted so much time thinking I had been doing it right before.
Yeah man its pretty sick. I'll admit though, it doesn't work for ALL ampsims. Some I have found, still need a bit of input gain
I also realized this just last week. Funny how that works. :)
Yeah dude I was pretty much blown away
so if i got a scarlett 2i2 gen 4 i put my input gain on my amp sim on -0.2 for nueral dsp stuff
There you go. Thanks for taking the time to get this straight and to let others know about it. I struggled for literally years thinking my interface was trash or other reasons. It amazes me how we've all overlooked this for so long.
Hopefully all these companies will get together and come up with a standard. Hell IK Multimedia doesn't even have a standard among their own amps lol.
No thank you for bringing this to my attention friend.
Interestingly, the latest Audio Assault Amp Locker actually has a calibration mode where it will ask you to play a certain chord, and it will then calculate the input level. This could be an industry first (I don't know of any others that do it), but how much easier would it be if every amp sim had this
STL does that too but, still inaccurate tbh. They have you set your interface to -6db which is still way to hot
@@Sebastiansampson I always left it at 0 in the audio interface, and when I use the stl amphub the plugin itself increases the input to +8 and it gets a great timbre
A TubeScreamer is a soft clipping overdrive pedal. But I get the point that the amp sim would act differently with too hot a signal.
Correct
If the preamp on the interface is clean enough, there's quite literally no physical difference between dialing down/up the gain or using a trim before the amp sim. And no, the comparison between a guitar/boost and amp and a digital plugin is invalid. Analog hardware responds very differently. And a tube screamer also acts as a filter, not just a clean boost :)
Ive tried this with a scarlett 2i2 3rd gen and NA's MP1, and... it did in fact remove the balls from my guitar. I will now turn it up as much as i need to for it to sound good to my ears and not be clipping. It made mixing SO much harder for me on a project I just did for a client. Use your ears, people. If this works for you, fine. Didnt work for me.
Thanks for sharing
I think when it comes to using other people's DIs, it might be best to just ask what they're running into, such as what audio interface and if they're using a DI box, so you can search up that information on where their db level should be at minimum. I don't know how much difference it would make if you're trimming the gain in post if you're boosting or reducing the input level compared to just plugging it in and doing the input level on the plugin.
Good idea, although I agree, not sure how it would make a difference after its been ran through their interfaces
why software companies didn't say anything about this?
This document says, that preamp gain must be at 0, but why you set it all the way down (is -15db in your presonus). I also have presonus interface, and i know, that preamps has negative gain, when input signal is decreased 8:34
Setting you interface to zero means input level / gain knob all the way down, not zero decibels!
You guys must be using interfaces that run super hot
Do you know how to add input gain to Overload TH-U? I can't find the input gain knob. Most other plugins have this knob
You can use a trim knob plugin that usally comes stock with most DAWs
@@Sebastiansampson I use Reaper and there is no stock trim knob. But i try to use it from Slate Digital Trimmer, if this is what i need
@@Gaming4Life-- that would work perfect yeah
Thats interesting sebastian.
What is your approach when getting di tracks from clients? I guess you can go the same way,the'll send di with input gain to 0.or am i wrong?
Hi Toni, unforunately with client sent DIs this doesn't work as well because you don't have quality control over what is sent. This is mostly for home recording people intrested in mixing their own music
@@Sebastiansampson thanks for answering.
holy shit this video needs more views, wtf it fixed everything for me
Thanks Man!
my guitar link usb interface doesnt even have input level for me to get better sounds i just turn down the guitar knob volume
woah dude thats crazy
So I take it's normal that this method results in very low pre-fader input levels in a DAW? I get something like -25...-30dB using Audient iD4, even with humbuckers. Is this OK?
That is correct.
@@Sebastiansampson All right. Thanks for confirming!
Use your ears. For me, this weakened my guitar. Just don't clip and make sure it sounds good.
actually using a preamp (echoplex) or a clean boost before your amp input should be considered a gain "stage" as well (perhaps you say as much later on)....yep you do haha
Yes sir!
I’ve tried to like sims for years and bought IRs and everything, but always hated them and their fizzy sound. wtf.
Anyone know what it would be for NAM?
I've been going crazy myself for that one. Honestly I just turn up the input gain until it saturates the way I want while still keep the interface input gain down
@@Sebastiansampson yeah but they must know what it is. Might be worth emailing the contact page if there is one.
Using the AXE I/O interface with NAM. Gain knob @~ 9o'clock, keeping check on the input meters. Time for some R&D
input gain from me on NAM was right about 2 oclock
@@AntonovichHicksenbrau
For NAM it depends on who made the model. It can be anywhere between +20dB to -20dB
Watched this and still have absolutely zero idea of how to figure out what to set the input level on each amp too
haha don't worry man took me awhile too..... Lemme see if I can help. What is your interface? And what ampsim are you trying to dial in?
@@SebastiansampsonI’m using the Focusrite 2i2 (3rd Gen) and The Crown Amp Sim from Audio Assault. If u can advise the correct input and how u came to that let me know as I’d love to see the difference in the sound/tone. Thank you
Hmm , unfortunately I just went off of the google sheet I linked and audio assault wasn't listed. However, I still suggest turning your input gain all the way down on the interface and then, turn up the input gain on the plugin until it saturates they way you like@@Bloodsoaked Use a trim plugin if that AMpsim doesn't have an input gain
@@Sebastiansampson this guy/video here czcams.com/video/KCLQp4R0ahs/video.htmlsi=FLEY2WBIlrszslnB is basically saying for a Focusrite just turn input on interface to zero and nothing else on the plug-in. Your video linked to a bunch of other videos and they’re all confusing as fuck to figure out what to set the input on the plug-in too. Like WTF?!?
Cordy is one of the ones I saw. If he is saying that for your interface, I'd take it at face value
@@Bloodsoaked
Is bias Fx 2 there?
No I do not think so
Who said I have been dialing my amp sims wrong? who am I kidding I have, but somehow managed to get semi decent sounds sometimes.
Like I said in the video, if it sounds good it is good
7:11
8:28 demo
So what about active pickups? Don't they act as a tube screamer? The best way I think is the amp sim creators put an auto detect signal input adjustment feature with the ability to disable it. That way no one is going to complain and they will have better products. Why I have to do the math to something I pay. That's the real problem.
Not really. If you think about it, in real life, you just still have a - guitar with actives > TS (optional) > amp. By setting up your interface this way you are still simulate that chain by taking out the extra gain added by your interface. Second it comes down to accuracy of the replication of the amp being simulated. I suggest watching Ed S's video for a more technical overview
Active pups are simply going to output a hotter signal, which can be commonly dealt with many interfaces' inclusion of a PAD (pre-attenuation device) to avoid clipping the signal on the way in...
I always settled with using a VU meter plugin to better gauge my levels throughout the entirety of the session, analogous to how managing levels are like strictly using analog consoles...
Why not just record hot so you can keep the noise floor low like you would in any other circumstance and then just use a trim plug in before the amp sim and back off on the gain until it sounds like its supposed to on one of the presets? I've always just used my ears and trimmed the DI volume down to get me the best tone with each preset and often times I find myself equalizing the DI into the amp a bit more after I find the sweet spot which the plugin manufacturers can't anticipate you doing, not to mention each guitar has a different output volume anyway. I think the reason they list that stuff is just to give you an idea of a good volume for the plugin to give you the best performance. Most plugin manufacturers have an ideal value listed in their manuals but that doesn't mean you have to neurotically abide by the exact value and stress yourself out doing all those extra steps. I guess I could say the same though for recording neurotically hot into your interface since the noise floor is so imperceivable and low with modern interfaces. 🤷♂
Best thing to do is use your ears and just be aware of the fact that these plugins have target values. Let your ears guide you to the target.
Yeah thats one way sure
if you set gain at 0 (in preamp) and leave input gain at plugin at 0 - you will get the same result You want. lower input gain on plugin = more clear sound
This is all about gain staging. Don't turn your interface inputs down, all this is doing is degrading your signal at the first stage. If your guitar modelling plugin requires a certain level of input to sound the way you want, provide that level by attenuating the signal after your interface input but before the modelling plugin.
Check out eds original video
czcams.com/video/jXKZqJtjLkg/video.html
Wrong. You're just lowering the signal resolution by doing this. Most interfaces will record at 24 bit but if you don't use the said bits, you're not doing it right. It's like you record in say 8 bit... Not good.You're losing all the benefits of having a big dynamic range.
You're saying by boosting input gain on the plugins themselves,(which looking at the chart, most plugins seem to boost input.) it still wouldn't get you a good signal?
@@jerryfick8547 No cause you are already past the analog to digital converter meaning your audio signal is already converted with very low bit depth. Boosting after the fact in the digital domain won't recreate the missing bits. It will just result in a boosted low resolution signal.
A good analogy would be that you decide to take very small pictures with your digital camera then upscale it in photoshop to get them their final size (which you can do to some extent with AI nowadays but that's a different subject)
Often turning the gain to 0 will produce a signal that is just below clipping. You aren’t losing any resolution because the dynamic range of the guitar is constrained by the maximum peak level and the noise. It’s much less than 24 bit. You’d have to record REALLY quiet on noisy converters to run into issues.
@@kutnersuicideAhh ..ok. Yeah that does make sense..👍 I appreciate the explanation.
@@eds4754 Well off course if your signal is so hot that it's almost clipping with the gain at zero, it makes sense.