A Look at The Doomsday Sanction (Justice League Unlimited)
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- čas přidán 9. 11. 2022
- The Justice League has to deal with the threat of an erupting volcano and a Cadmus conspiracy that involved a kryptonite nuke and a villain named Doomsday. And no one even gets to ride in Wonder Woman's cleavage again.
While I think the Cadmus arc is the most mature superhero cartoon, it bugs me that for all of Waller's talk of checks and balances, Cadmus loses control way more often than the JLA. Doomsday, the Ultramen, the Destroyer, and Galatea are their projects but all go rogue. If not for the League, Cadmus would have destroyed the world.
That actually is what makes it the most believable.
There's nothing in the world more dangerous than government bureaucrats who think they know better than everyone else. Who are idealistically pursuing goals and who have been given a blank check. The largest famines (The Holodomor, the Great Leap Forward) in history were created by such people, who were so blinded by their idealism and the nobility of their goals that they allowed the ends to justify the means. Cadmus is made up of such people, people who think THEY KNOW BETTER. And as a secret government agency they have little to no oversight, nobody actually keeping them accountable, not even public opinion or the judicial system.
The problem comes from the "results at any cost" attitude. The Ultramen were defective but rushed out too soon to work out the bugs, because results. Galatea is a nature vs nurture plus a pesky psychic link glitch.
All perfectly reasonable. Doomsday, though, could've been completely avoided if they just had someone escort that dude out of the building, ya know, like what normally happens when someone gets fired.
Even after it is dissolved General Eiling uses the Captain Nazi formula to turn into a hulking tusked monster.
They are a spanking machine of bad ideas.
Yep. There's a reason Cadmus is wrong and our heroes are right.
this is somewhat addressed during the episode Patriot, Waller explains that she saw the error in Cadmus's way of doing things, while Irwing (Irving?) felt that the only fault on thier end was trusting Luthor.
In the end Waller was true to her word and lived up to what Cadmus wanted to do, but was more open to working with the league, becoming a Liaison for a time and grew to admire and work with some of their members and would eventually pull her cadmus resources together to start Project Batman Beyond
I've got to say, I love the back and forth between Batman and Waller in...well pretty much anything that I've seen them together in.
RIP Kevin Conroy (1955-2022)
I tend to think that the Justice Lords were what lead to CADMUS really kicking of anti-Justice League going rogue plans while Doomsday was created in response to what happened in Superman: The Animated series, where he was mind controlled by Darkseid and caused a lot of devastation.
It's most likely that CADMUS is an amalgamation of programs that already existed or were defunct (in the case of Project Firestorm and Volcana).
"Brent Spiner with Moe Howard's hair..." I never would have put that together and now I can't unsee it.
I love how this series tackled concepts CW's Supergirl would try and do later, but with nuance and intellegence rather than a non veiled allegory for racism.
Edit, on Batman, I think it's more that he is the human. That he has to hone himself to perfection to keep up with the others who could still best him, but they don't put in the same effort. Even his alternate plans to stop them if they go bad rely ona heavy dose of them not seeing it coming. That puts him both on the side that wants the heroes that can save everyone from everything, and the one that knows if they truly go bad, they win.
The others can fall back on arrogantly thinking it would never happen, or at least believing the others would stop them.
Cadmus wasn't really formed because of the justice lords event. There is evidence that Cadmus was around even before the justice league was ever formed. Question in the Supergirl and Galatea episode implied that Cadmus was around for a long time, and were taking initiative against the justice league due to what happened in the Superman series finale. General Hardcastle even confirmed this and was killed off by Galatea and Cadmus because of how much he knew.
Serafall Leviathan
I can actually explain the Doomsday retcon.
It’s mostly truth with some lies sprinkled in. Doomsday was a plan by CADMUS to kill the justice league and you may say ‘but the lords were the reason CADMUS formed’… except their was stuff before CADMUS. They straight up say Volcana and Royal flush gang were created by them and they were all made before CADMUS formed. Doomsday was probably created to battle Superman after the events of the Superman finale, trained to kill him. But he was made to resemble a generic alien warlord to hide the fact the US government created him. Milo though lied to Doomsday about this obsession, given that Doomsday wasn’t obsessed with him. So yeah, I can explain it away.
I mean, Doomsday knows what a nuclear bomb is. If he’s an alien… why does he?
I prefer to believe Doomsday’s original origin. Frankly I would have preferred that he have been a creation of Darkseid. It would have made more sense.
In the alternative reality they are other people, not our people.
So what did Batman want them to do? “Let the law handle it?” How?
More Cadmus craziness, solidifying both their threat level and the notion that they might be somewhat justified. They were doing stuff before then with metahuman projects like Volcana and the Royal Flush Gang, but the discovery of the Justice Lords' dimension combined with the absolute terror the episode Legacy invoked obviously gave them much more authority to do whatever they need to develop counters to the League. It's just too bad those counters keep falling into the wrong hands or going rogue or both.
"Brent Spiner with Moe Howard's hair" 😂😂😂😂
I don't think the Doomsday retcon was really necessary. They could have just said that Cadmus took Doomsday after he was lobotomized and brainwashed him to hate Superman.
Although, Doomsday showing up during the Justice Lord episode was kind of out of nowhere. Maybe they could have said that the dimensional portal the Justice Lords came through causes a rift in the Phantom Zone and Doomsday was already imprisoned there and he managed to escape. Then they can tie Doomsday more to his comic origins as a monster created on Krypton.
The more DC explains Doomsday the less interesting he becomes.
I like the, "we took the lobotomized monster and made him hate Superman" idea, it cuts the most fluff out and doesn't give an origin story.
@@Rocketboy1313 Ugh, the worst is the "Doomsday is a kryptonian invented super killer death monster thing!" retcon.
@@hariman7727 it is so bad. Just have him be a monster!
@@hariman7727 I personally hate the Dawn of Justice origin the most. Lex creating an uncontrollable monster that looked nothing like him or the dead Kryptonian he took blood from was a stupid idea and felt like Zack Snyder wrote himself into a wall.
@@jlev1028 To make matters even dumber, that's basically Conner's origin. It felt like he stapled Conner's origin onto Doomsday. And it wasn't even needed, the original scrip called had Metallo as the main villain and that honestly fits better with the theme they were going for.
"You know me." Superman was in a bit of denial about the whole "tried to lobotomize Doomsday" thing there.
Not only that, Superman used excessive force against Batman the first time they met. After Batman threw him, Supes responded to that one-time lucky shot which didn't even hurt him by body-slamming Batman across the room. Mongul and Darkseid also demonstrated just what Superman is like when he get's REALLY mad.
Hate to say it, but in both cases, what exactly was the alternative to dealing with Doomsday? And in regular Supes case, Doomsday was about to kill him.
What Waller doesn't see is that she's more like the Justice Lords than this dimension's Justice League. The Lords were pushed too far, took over, and thought they were doing good, the same as the fascist Superman who joined with Luthor when his version of Lois was killed while Superman was elsewhere (seen in the Superman episode Brave New Metropolis). While I hate the idea of Superman going crazy because of Lois alone (at least Injustice piled a bunch of stuff on until Kal-El proved the Joker had a heart..by showing it off to everyone) we also don't know what else was different in that universe besides Flash dying and Luthor seizing power.
Meanwhile Cadmus has created killers. Galatea was created to kill anyone Cadmus didn't trust and the Uni-Men were essentially their army, disposable soldiers with superpowers that they easily replaced like the Separatists' droid army in Star Wars. In order to protect people they were willing to kill innocents and "traitors", essentially doing a slow burn of what the Justice Lords did quickly. Cadmus are just like the Justice Lords, but doing it gradually to slowly take over and even fool themselves into thinking they're not going too far and doing "the right thing to protect everyone". I mean, they're working with Luthor, who had by this point lost much of his guise as an honest businessman.
Meanwhile the Justice League may actually be less likely to go all psycho because it's not just a handful of the DCAU's superhero community and guys like Green Arrow and the Question are there to keep an eye on things and like the Flash be the conscience of the League, as seen when Captain Marvel leaves after Superman was tricked by his own mistrust of Luthor, understandable and normally justified as that would be. The size of the League now is essentially another check on not becoming the Justice Lords even though the larger roster and improved gear were formed in reaction to the Thanagarian invasion.
That's the benefit of having people like Supes on the team
They can turn and point at erupting volcano, say "save the day" and let him do the heavy lifting while they save the world in the subtle ways
Chuck's dissection of Batman with respect to the Justice Lords reminds me of _Persona 4._
The series main idea is that of people gaining power by showing a face to the world that isn't the same as their true selves. In _Persona 4_ they refine the idea down to the importance of recognizing the parts of yourself that you don't particularly like and accepting them. Each character's recruitment arc centers around that character confronting a monster that personifies what they dislike about themselves. And that _shadow_ gains power and independence specifically when their creator assures them that they're totally not the same person.
Boss fight, epiphany, recruited character. Because video game.
Not that these ideas aren't played with outside the main cast; it's just most blatant there. And, admittedly, repetitive enough that even the characters notice the pattern before the end.
Oh, right. The point. From the stand point of that game, Supes assuring Batman that Bruce knows him isn't reassuring at all. If you deny a part of yourself, pretend it isn't there, you can't help but be blindsided by it.
@@boobah5643 Right, Superman always means well and he thinks just having good intentions is enough. But that's a flaw that can cause you to fuck up pretty hard from not thinking about your actions.
Interesting that it looks like a *48* star flag behind Luthor at 0:53.
Poor shining knight, he gets so bullied in these. He's trying his best!
The one where he fights a legally distinct Red Hulk.... (before Rulk was even created if I'm not mistaken) is a good showing for him.
He is like tien.
*_”I remember, those eyes”_*
6:10 love how doomsday immidietly goes for the kill instead of considering helping the guy 💀
I want to see Doomsday riff on movies now
Originally, the plan was for Batman to form a splinter team in the second half of the season. The Outsiders effectively, whether that was going to be the name or not. paint him as being in the middle. I think that could have been a stronger plot.
I wonder who would've been on his team. I feel like we only really saw one of the regulars of the Outsiders on the show and once The Batman started production, they weren't allowed to use most of Batman's supporting cast and villains.
Coughyoungcouchjusticecough
@@mikegates8993 That might have been part of why it didn't happen, restriction to Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, and the Arkham and Blackgate crews.
@@bthsr7113 Did something similar later.
@@lynngreen7978 Considering Cassandra Cain premiered around this time, I'm a little salty about that. Considering she got a solo run that Barbara hadn't gotten up until then, I can totally see the Timverse adding her if the writers were allowed.
(11:29) Wow. Some poor schmuck had to dig up a whitewall tire to use for Bruce's neck brace. That or a foam life preserver. 🤪
I don't think JLU Waller really knew that Batman was Bruce Wayne. In her original comics she does, and straight up names him as Bruce when Batman confronts her about the Suicide Squad. Here, even in the privacy of her own home, she doesn't say Bruce's name. So I think this version of her is bluffing.
5:52 I know you will say this sooner or later, but in the DCAU, the end of the Superman series was Darkseid brainwashing Superman to attack earth.
CADMUS is an anti Justice League group, but Superman was always a government target
Heck, check out Volcana from Superman TAS. The US government already had a history of psychic soldier projects. That same threat continues in Justice League and Batman Beyond. Probably because Bruce Timm and Paul Dini are big Akira fans
Sometimes I can't help but think Batman and the Flash are the conscience tag team
They come at it from different angels, but in a lot of ways they are. At least in this version.
Yes, but the point being that Justice League Batman pretty much is Justice Lord Batman. He already will do anything to make a world "where no eight-year-old boy will ever lose his parents because of some punk with a gun!" Even that? If necessary. Or at least he would have, except he's seen where that path leads.
Even so, a time will come where Batman "can't believe I was ever that green," and school himself on how you get some clown to start talking. There are darker places he will go … probably mostly thanks to what the original Joker will do in the years to come, but now that he's seen what's across this line, it's a line he will not cross.
The rest of them, perhaps even Wally, are not aware that they're as close as they are to taking matters into their own hands since … they kind of already do.
I wonder if Chuck will do Justice League Doom at one point.
I want him to do Crisis on Two Earths. Chuck would have a blast dissecting Owl Man's multiverse nihilism and probably do the Psycho Janeway voice for Superwoman.
@@wdcain1 OH, I would love to see that!
@@wdcain1 Sounds fun.
Rip Kevin conroys amazing performances in the scenes) the opening Batman vs Waller when he appears in Waller’s bathroom handing her the towel and spooked the hell out of her😂👍and then begins the conflict against each other when Waller threatens Batman to out his identity but because he’s badass he will not take any of this crap in blackmailed by any enemies not even her when he responds if he goes down he’ll take her with him👍into spotlight news report expose to their activities only waller has the illegal evidence and then she wind up throw away everything she lose more than Bruce’s in cost of his job as the heroic legend and as for Waller stating ‘we’re the good guys’ how blind can she be who hasn’t even accomplish by protecting and hasn’t been that friendly( but also hate the closing scene that while got injured Bruce once again is being a dick again to Superman after sendiing doomsday to phantom zone when he thinks it wasn’t good enough?? should had giving him advise suggestion better instead of criticizing him and when was trying lighten up in compliment which of course saying ‘ you don’t get to joke not today I just took a bullet for you’ lol😂after saving his life from sacrificing himself when bringing the watch tower down under war, so how about call it even!)
I'm not sure Wonder Woman saved his ass: we'd seen lava didn't bother him.
He could still drown/suffocate.
Superman had just finished a really rough fight with Doomsday, maybe he was weakened enough that the lava would've done something to him. Or he would've drowned in it because he didn't have the energy to fly out of it.
Well Supes had worn Doomsday down enough that the eruption KO'd him for a while and he didn't have time or energy to break out of the rock that had hardened and cooled around him.
Remember Superman is a living battery charged by the sun. Doomsday drained him. He needed to take a breath and charge again from the sun which was not shining on him.
I concur with the other commenters that Cadmus likely assumed the data, talent, and other assets of previous government programs, with these things considered Cadmus' by extension.
So... and I can't believe I'm giving Eiling this much credit, butt what did Waller think was going to happen? She left the method entirely to dealer's choice at the hands of a sociopath who apparently had access to nukes tipped with green K.
I will note that.... while Clark may have fought like a Justice Lord.... the Phantom Zone Projector was the only solution I can see in that moment.
Very astute point about how it is sometimes the most troubled who are the least concern because they know to watch themselves and to be on guard.
"You don't get to joke. Not today. I just took a bullet for you."
So real life nukes dont have post launch abort capabilities once their launched its over
Hello.
Why did Superman ended up being shirtless while fighting Doomsday?
Wait, are you saying that package delivery clip wasn't from porn?
He's saying it's not from gay porn.
Coming out of the shower and coming face to face with Batman. Fear or fantasy?
Give me the '70s and '80s Super Friends instead of this 2000s DCAU garbage.