When I teach my friends 3D, I always tell them don’t look at the sticks cause it will confuse the more. I just throw them in the simulator so they can build the muscle memory to catch the cadence of the maneuvers and feel it for themselves, especially rolling harriers when you get it down, there’s a rhythm to the stick movement.
Your comparison to the E flight extra 300 hit home. I have a love-hate relationship with mine. Sometimes I think it's a pretty good plane and other times, it just seems like a Squirrley, wing rocker.
Great video as usual. I would love to see what you could do with the TWISTED HOBBYS 42" EPP EDGE 540 XL. I've really grown to love the EPP Foamies. They fly incredible. Keep up the great content. Peace.
Thanks for toughing out the stick cam. I'll definitely use your tips, once I re-attach the nose on my SuperCub 😢. Hit a power line in front of my in-laws house yesterday. Taking advantage of this to upgrade my tech 👍
Great review, demo and tutorial! Is there any carbon spars in the fuse and motorbox, will this plane handle high energy tumbles without failure? You made it look good 🤔 Thank you in advance!
Thanks! We don't know if there's any carbon reinforcement in the fuselage, but very likely that there is. We haven't seen any issues with tumbling it or otherwise throwing it around.
I definitely appreciate the stick camera I’ve been doing rolling harriers with only my rudder for the year I’ve been flying but didn’t realize till I saw you fly, no wonder I always complaint about not enough rudder 🙄. Little mistake breaking the habit is a different story
I've had this plane for almost 5 years now. Great model and durable... unfortunately I crashed early after getting it but repaired it pretty well. I added a small coin in one of the wings to rebalance, I also had to install actual hinges since the ailerons pretty much dettached from the wing. The thing is I just can't land it harrier style, this plane (or at least my repaired unit) is very tricky to fly at low speeds, it seems that it likes to hang hands down and then in a split second it will lean on a wing and spiral out of control... I'm mostly an RC helis guy but I also like planes and can fly them better than the most plane guys I know, I'm just stuck at some things I can't seem to get my head arround: harrier landings, spinning harriers and hovering (I can hold it a few seconds at most). Great flying btw, after watching this video I definitely want to improve flying mine.
If it's dropping at all, you're not using enough thrust. Flying post-stall requires having enough throttle applied to keep it up in the air. Watch the harrier sections and you'll see what we mean. We've posted 3D tutorials you might find useful: czcams.com/video/b84Q6Pu8H2I/video.html
@@optyqus I know this comment is kinda old already but ive flown a bunch of 3d planes and this one flys horribly at low speed. I've changed the center of gravity added more and less throttle and nothing fixes it. It's a fun plane with a 4s battery cause it's fast and powerful. But this is a crap post stall airplane. Like you said it dips a wing and is impossible to recover if you are within 5 or 10 feet of the ground. Also he mentions it's touchy on the rudder in a knife edge. This is an understatement. If you arent perfect on the sticks at all times it just flips over. Kinda annoying. Wouldnt go this route again.
The skywing foam balsa 48 in hybrids are killer too....but like foam they wear out after alot of high g manuevers and tumbles or crankshafts...(after 100 or so flights) they get softer and flex a little...but super fun
I second this. I have one and it flies like balsa but doesn't break like balsa. It's really good. The only things I worry about breaking are the tail and cowling because they're just foam, but it hasn't been a problem so far. I think I got mine on a banggood usa sale for fairly cheap a few years ago.
Get yourself that new katana 60 from pa or the new 67 inch extra from extreme flught (both are sooooo good) you'll love it or if you like lighter wing loads the xr61...but u liked your katana 52 and these are what I'm flying for smaller stuff lately amd I was amazed
oh sure! Post this review after I spend 3 months waiting on a Flex QQ Extra, then an extra month waiting on parts to fix it after it arrived in less than stellar shape. On top of that I could have saved $100 :) - I gotta say, after all that time and effort, the QQ Extra is a really nice plane. Maybe some day you'll do a review of that one. I'd be curious what you two would be capable of doing with that airframe.
The only thing from Flex we're interested in is the Twin Otter, which we'll probably order for some shooting in January. The rest of their lineup is not terribly interesting, but we might consider it if there's enough demand. Sorry we couldn't post this one fast enough for you! ;)
I will say the Aura 8 gyro stomps any other flight controllers I've flown. I now use them in everything I fly. Did you really say their lineup isn't cutting it for you? Yet 5-7 versions of the timber are just next level visionary? Lol Sponsored = Amazing products "which I totally understand, giving you shxt"@@TwoBrosRC
Hey John…I have version V2… 4s… also came with set of nylon Hinges!!! I am no expert flyer but capable…. This bird seem to be real twitchy….. any movement of sticks requires immediate control response to keep on flying where I want it to be…. Your rates and expo maybe would help????…. More forward CG….Or is this normal for a 3D bird??? My first one…. Big fan of your knowledge and videos.
Our rates and expo wouldn't help you, it's 100% rate of 150 travel at 50% expo on all surfaces. A gyro would help you stabilize the plane in 3D maneuvers - we use AS3X in our setup which significantly reduces twitchiness.
What a great video. Sure will buy one next month. Just want to ask. I really want to fly 3d, problem here none of fly mmber fly 3d, all bashing their edf. How to learn all the tricks one by one.. Rely just on my old phoenix simulator bring nothing rather wasting time bashing the model in there
Steering with aileron can cause a stall or make it harder to control. Rudder is the most effective and safe way to adjust course at high angles of attack.
Jon, do you find that yours flies tail heavy despite having the battery full forward. Just curious if you added weights to the front or just fly it tail heavy.
Nope. It's definitely not tail heavy. If it was, it would be nigh-uncontrollable. It's most likely balancing neutral for you, which is commonly mistaken as being tail heavy. Neutral airframes do what they're told to do and don't fight control inputs at all, and will continue in the last direction they were pointed in (pitch/yaw-wise) - while tail heavy airframes tend to oscillate wildly in the pitch axis. As a 3D airframe, you generally want it to be neutral or slightly tail heavy for maximum control authority. If it feels weird or twitchy, you can increase expo to compensate. Ours is flown at 50% expo on all surfaces, but you could easily go to 75% and not notice much of a difference.
@@TwoBrosRC I guess the biggest observation and the reason I say tail heavy is that it seems to Always kind of have a nose up attitude and climbs easily under throttle. Almost like it’s always barely in a harrier. I’m probably exaggerating this. Consequently I find it super easy to fly just wondered if that’s how yours feels. Very interesting what you say about a neutral frame. I feel like a notice more the tendency to preserve the roll inputs. I’m definitely going to pay attention to pitch and yaw though now that you say that. I do also notice with as3x on it tends to do this fast twitch wobble correction when you go to roll quickly or knife edge quickly. Thanks for the input
Climbing under throttle would be nose heavy because of the amount of up elevator trim required to fly level. A tail heavy airframe will porpoise up and down.
What is “3D” flying specifically as it relates to RC? Is it a type of flying or type of plane? Or both? It seems like an inherently tail heavy airplane when it’s flying. I’m new to RC and interested in flying aerobatics. Used to do real aerobatics in a Bellanca Citabria.
I love 3D plane because i can fly like conventional plane and landing if fly in small space. Do you recommend this for beginner for crash n easy repair😂?
@@TwoBrosRC I have another option: Mamba 10, how do you think about it 🤔? I'm compare with easy repair and quickly remove the wings between these 2 models.
Good plane but got som issues with mine..If someone dont like flying it. Check servo and that ball link.. My came with plastic ball link that sticks..very hard for servos to move all the controll surfaces.. Change to normal metal ball links.. 2 of my servos was not centering good at all.. When this is done the plane is very good. But its not a 3D beginner plane.. go for a PA Addiction then👍Its a good 3D trainer for the intermediate 3D pilot, that can take much better abuse than a balsa plane👍😊
The Addiction is far from a beginner's 3D plane. The price point, being made of balsa, and lack of any crash resistance makes it less than ideal for people learning to fly 3D or wanting to avoid damaging something that's super expensive.
@@TwoBrosRC Remember you are far from a 3D beginner😉So i dont see the Fms as 3d beginner plane. But a good trainer for intermediate pilots.My point is that the PA Addiction is a easier plane to learn 3D.. There is others that is better.. The PA is very crasj resistant because of it lightness.. i have weared out 2 of them😁.. The easiest might be indoor planes 😉🤣 I dont fly with gyro.. might that be our diffrent experiance? Anyway you give good motivations in your movies.. I did take out my 3D plane now after only flying Jet the last 3 years👍😊
Idk why but inverted harriers were always easier for me....for longest time my inverted harriers were always locked in and regular harriers I was way less stable and had to try harder....I'm always backwards to rifle rolls were easier than rolling harriers too😂😂😂
Also I thought I was just a shitty pilot having a hard time landing my extra 300 and my ft edge 540s cause they take so much speed sometimes and are so touchy on landings I usually use low rates to do a smooth scale landing
I would argue the opposite. Its NOT a good beginner 3D plane. Lots of guys at club club bought them (over 10 guys ) , they all crashed them . One experienced flyer sold his after the first flight , he was so unimpressed . Its easy to fly , but not stable, not an accurate flyer & VERY unforgiving. It will drop a wing randomly. Yep, I had one, easy to fly , on maiden I went straight into knife edge before clearing the runway . That doesnt make it a good plane 🙂. The novelty of this plane wears off quickly and there are much better flying planes for beginning 3D . Anyone who can do rolling harriers is so far beyond average pilot skills , it may be an easy plane for you , but the average guy : nope. Thats why everyone who owned one at our Rc Club ,crashed it , often . Not the best 3D plane for average flyers. Just an opinion 🙂
No idea what you're referring to in terms of stability. Ours was stable in almost everything but hovering during strong winds. It does not drop a wing randomly. That's caused by stalling the airframe and not using thrust to overcome it. We performed stall tests and it gently spiraled to the ground in a power off stall. The characteristics you're describing sound like a completely different airframe.
@@TwoBrosRC Have a look on rcgroups forum for this plane. Wing drop is a issue for a few other guys with this plane . A good 3D plane wont drop a wing . This plane has been crashed and broken for everyone who had one at my RC Club. That makes it not a good beginners 3D plane . Sure , I crashed by flying under goal posts at a school feild, that one was 100% pilot . Twisted Hobbies EPP planes are much better for 3D beginners, fly better, easier to fix , less likely to break
I would have to disagree as well. I just maidened this as my first mid wing 3d plane. I thought it would be too much for me to handle as a beginner but I think it flies way more stable and predictable than the timber x I bought as my 2nd plane. I was honestly shocked. It was also way easier to land than I thought it would be. This thing has less stall tendencies than some bush planes I’ve flown.
We flew it on 3s 2200, 3000, and 3500 batteries. It flew really well with all of them and there was no noticeable difference in flight characteristics between packs.
When I teach my friends 3D, I always tell them don’t look at the sticks cause it will confuse the more. I just throw them in the simulator so they can build the muscle memory to catch the cadence of the maneuvers and feel it for themselves, especially rolling harriers when you get it down, there’s a rhythm to the stick movement.
Your comparison to the E flight extra 300 hit home. I have a love-hate relationship with mine. Sometimes I think it's a pretty good plane and other times, it just seems like a Squirrley, wing rocker.
It could be a lot better if it was lighter. It's just too heavy which leads to a lot of the issues you've noticed.
@@TwoBrosRC yeah, next plane is bigger with light woods and covering.
Very nice Jon. Does well for a foam full bodied 3D plane. For the price can't beat it.
Great video as usual. I would love to see what you could do with the TWISTED HOBBYS 42" EPP EDGE 540 XL. I've really grown to love the EPP Foamies. They fly incredible. Keep up the great content. Peace.
Very nice bargain for 3d, looks like a winner. Fun model. Forgot the wing screws...🍺:). Good stuff Jon.
Jon, without the H. Cheers. :)
@@TwoBrosRC I know, the #@!! phone must've spell checked me.
I almost got that plane, been thinking to get it again. Looks like a great plane!
Thanks for toughing out the stick cam. I'll definitely use your tips, once I re-attach the nose on my SuperCub 😢. Hit a power line in front of my in-laws house yesterday. Taking advantage of this to upgrade my tech 👍
Sorry to hear that! Hope you get it fixed up soon!
I've had my eye on this!!!
Now I need to buy this lol... Awesome flying bro
Great review, demo and tutorial! Is there any carbon spars in the fuse and motorbox, will this plane handle high energy tumbles without failure? You made it look good 🤔 Thank you in advance!
Thanks! We don't know if there's any carbon reinforcement in the fuselage, but very likely that there is. We haven't seen any issues with tumbling it or otherwise throwing it around.
I definitely appreciate the stick camera I’ve been doing rolling harriers with only my rudder for the year I’ve been flying but didn’t realize till I saw you fly, no wonder I always complaint about not enough rudder 🙄. Little mistake breaking the habit is a different story
Happy to help, man!
Finally! Yay!!!
Great content!
Looks like a fun one!
I've had this plane for almost 5 years now. Great model and durable... unfortunately I crashed early after getting it but repaired it pretty well. I added a small coin in one of the wings to rebalance, I also had to install actual hinges since the ailerons pretty much dettached from the wing. The thing is I just can't land it harrier style, this plane (or at least my repaired unit) is very tricky to fly at low speeds, it seems that it likes to hang hands down and then in a split second it will lean on a wing and spiral out of control... I'm mostly an RC helis guy but I also like planes and can fly them better than the most plane guys I know, I'm just stuck at some things I can't seem to get my head arround: harrier landings, spinning harriers and hovering (I can hold it a few seconds at most). Great flying btw, after watching this video I definitely want to improve flying mine.
If it's dropping at all, you're not using enough thrust. Flying post-stall requires having enough throttle applied to keep it up in the air. Watch the harrier sections and you'll see what we mean. We've posted 3D tutorials you might find useful: czcams.com/video/b84Q6Pu8H2I/video.html
@@optyqus I know this comment is kinda old already but ive flown a bunch of 3d planes and this one flys horribly at low speed. I've changed the center of gravity added more and less throttle and nothing fixes it. It's a fun plane with a 4s battery cause it's fast and powerful. But this is a crap post stall airplane. Like you said it dips a wing and is impossible to recover if you are within 5 or 10 feet of the ground. Also he mentions it's touchy on the rudder in a knife edge. This is an understatement. If you arent perfect on the sticks at all times it just flips over. Kinda annoying. Wouldnt go this route again.
You should try the future models edge 540T. It’s a balsa foam hybrid that comes in arf or pnp kit. Awesome plane!
Got a trustworthy site to buy it from?
The skywing foam balsa 48 in hybrids are killer too....but like foam they wear out after alot of high g manuevers and tumbles or crankshafts...(after 100 or so flights) they get softer and flex a little...but super fun
I second this. I have one and it flies like balsa but doesn't break like balsa. It's really good. The only things I worry about breaking are the tail and cowling because they're just foam, but it hasn't been a problem so far. I think I got mine on a banggood usa sale for fairly cheap a few years ago.
Get yourself that new katana 60 from pa or the new 67 inch extra from extreme flught (both are sooooo good) you'll love it or if you like lighter wing loads the xr61...but u liked your katana 52 and these are what I'm flying for smaller stuff lately amd I was amazed
We're looking into the new Ultimate AMR v2.
oh sure! Post this review after I spend 3 months waiting on a Flex QQ Extra, then an extra month waiting on parts to fix it after it arrived in less than stellar shape. On top of that I could have saved $100 :) - I gotta say, after all that time and effort, the QQ Extra is a really nice plane. Maybe some day you'll do a review of that one. I'd be curious what you two would be capable of doing with that airframe.
The only thing from Flex we're interested in is the Twin Otter, which we'll probably order for some shooting in January. The rest of their lineup is not terribly interesting, but we might consider it if there's enough demand. Sorry we couldn't post this one fast enough for you! ;)
I will say the Aura 8 gyro stomps any other flight controllers I've flown. I now use them in everything I fly. Did you really say their lineup isn't cutting it for you? Yet 5-7 versions of the timber are just next level visionary? Lol Sponsored = Amazing products "which I totally understand, giving you shxt"@@TwoBrosRC
Hey John…I have version V2… 4s… also came with set of nylon Hinges!!! I am no expert flyer but capable…. This bird seem to be real twitchy….. any movement of sticks requires immediate control response to keep on flying where I want it to be…. Your rates and expo maybe would help????…. More forward CG….Or is this normal for a 3D bird??? My first one…. Big fan of your knowledge and videos.
Our rates and expo wouldn't help you, it's 100% rate of 150 travel at 50% expo on all surfaces. A gyro would help you stabilize the plane in 3D maneuvers - we use AS3X in our setup which significantly reduces twitchiness.
What a great video. Sure will buy one next month. Just want to ask. I really want to fly 3d, problem here none of fly mmber fly 3d, all bashing their edf. How to learn all the tricks one by one.. Rely just on my old phoenix simulator bring nothing rather wasting time bashing the model in there
Try watching this vid: czcams.com/video/_ReYql_Skbw/video.html
Good review as always👍😊.. Do you use the stock gyro and servos?
It didn't come with a gyro that we can recall, but if it did, we removed it in favor of AS3X. The servos are completely stock. Cheers
I don’t use rudder in Harriers, I steer with Ailerons. But I’m new at this and that’s how I started doing it. It seems to work fine so I don’t know.
Steering with aileron can cause a stall or make it harder to control. Rudder is the most effective and safe way to adjust course at high angles of attack.
@@TwoBrosRC Definitely will try to do it with rudder today to see how it works out. Thanks for these tips and videos!
Man... I kinda want one now. Just saw one locally for a little less than retail. 🤔
I still think you boys aren't right in the head(LOL) but he'll yeah buddy that's why I watch your content. Thanks as always. Cheers Brothers!!
Right on!
Jon, do you find that yours flies tail heavy despite having the battery full forward. Just curious if you added weights to the front or just fly it tail heavy.
Nope. It's definitely not tail heavy. If it was, it would be nigh-uncontrollable. It's most likely balancing neutral for you, which is commonly mistaken as being tail heavy. Neutral airframes do what they're told to do and don't fight control inputs at all, and will continue in the last direction they were pointed in (pitch/yaw-wise) - while tail heavy airframes tend to oscillate wildly in the pitch axis. As a 3D airframe, you generally want it to be neutral or slightly tail heavy for maximum control authority.
If it feels weird or twitchy, you can increase expo to compensate. Ours is flown at 50% expo on all surfaces, but you could easily go to 75% and not notice much of a difference.
@@TwoBrosRC I guess the biggest observation and the reason I say tail heavy is that it seems to Always kind of have a nose up attitude and climbs easily under throttle. Almost like it’s always barely in a harrier. I’m probably exaggerating this. Consequently I find it super easy to fly just wondered if that’s how yours feels. Very interesting what you say about a neutral frame. I feel like a notice more the tendency to preserve the roll inputs. I’m definitely going to pay attention to pitch and yaw though now that you say that.
I do also notice with as3x on it tends to do this fast twitch wobble correction when you go to roll quickly or knife edge quickly. Thanks for the input
Climbing under throttle would be nose heavy because of the amount of up elevator trim required to fly level. A tail heavy airframe will porpoise up and down.
What is “3D” flying specifically as it relates to RC? Is it a type of flying or type of plane? Or both? It seems like an inherently tail heavy airplane when it’s flying. I’m new to RC and interested in flying aerobatics. Used to do real aerobatics in a Bellanca Citabria.
3D refers flying post-stall. All 3D airframes can be flown on pure thrust alone.
Nice rolling harriers... 👀
I love 3D plane because i can fly like conventional plane and landing if fly in small space. Do you recommend this for beginner for crash n easy repair😂?
Absolutely!
@@TwoBrosRC I have another option: Mamba 10, how do you think about it 🤔? I'm compare with easy repair and quickly remove the wings between these 2 models.
Never flown one, sorry!
Good plane but got som issues with mine..If someone dont like flying it. Check servo and that ball link.. My came with plastic ball link that sticks..very hard for servos to move all the controll surfaces.. Change to normal metal ball links.. 2 of my servos was not centering good at all.. When this is done the plane is very good. But its not a 3D beginner plane.. go for a PA Addiction then👍Its a good 3D trainer for the intermediate 3D pilot, that can take much better abuse than a balsa plane👍😊
The Addiction is far from a beginner's 3D plane. The price point, being made of balsa, and lack of any crash resistance makes it less than ideal for people learning to fly 3D or wanting to avoid damaging something that's super expensive.
@@TwoBrosRC Remember you are far from a 3D beginner😉So i dont see the Fms as 3d beginner plane. But a good trainer for intermediate pilots.My point is that the PA Addiction is a easier plane to learn 3D.. There is others that is better.. The PA is very crasj resistant because of it lightness.. i have weared out 2 of them😁.. The easiest might be indoor planes 😉🤣 I dont fly with gyro.. might that be our diffrent experiance? Anyway you give good motivations in your movies.. I did take out my 3D plane now after only flying Jet the last 3 years👍😊
How does this stack up against the eclipson 3D? It’s about the same price to make an eclipson as it is to buy this.
No idea, never heard of it.
I used to want one soo bad but it was never in stock and I jumped to balsa
I was wondering how u pined the ailerons, and what did you use . What was the rates u use
They aren't pinned. 150 travel, 100% rates, 50% expo
@@TwoBrosRC ohh I got yah then how did u fix the issue with them coming off
We didn't, they just haven't come off yet.
For the surface setting, just need to follow the manual given? For high and low rate,??
That's up to you.
@@TwoBrosRC afraid if above high rate is too much for the plane
Idk why but inverted harriers were always easier for me....for longest time my inverted harriers were always locked in and regular harriers I was way less stable and had to try harder....I'm always backwards to rifle rolls were easier than rolling harriers too😂😂😂
I'm good at harriers but once the plane is hovering and rolling to where I'm looking at the belly I always Over correct my rudder inputs
Also I thought I was just a shitty pilot having a hard time landing my extra 300 and my ft edge 540s cause they take so much speed sometimes and are so touchy on landings I usually use low rates to do a smooth scale landing
It's just how 3D planes are. You've gotta land them harrier style or walk the line between too fast or too slow.
Well, it wouldn't be you unless it didn't crash one time. Still nice plane and video
FWIW, it's our first wreck from not installing wing screws.
@@TwoBrosRC it happens
Is there a 4S version?
Nope. No need for it either.
None that we're aware of. It flies great on 3 cells and has plenty of power.
oh yes, 230$
*very affordable*
Full scale and model aviation are both expensive. Affordable is a relative term.
I would argue the opposite. Its NOT a good beginner 3D plane. Lots of guys at club club bought them (over 10 guys ) , they all crashed them . One experienced flyer sold his after the first flight , he was so unimpressed .
Its easy to fly , but not stable, not an accurate flyer & VERY unforgiving. It will drop a wing randomly.
Yep, I had one, easy to fly , on maiden I went straight into knife edge before clearing the runway . That doesnt make it a good plane 🙂. The novelty of this plane wears off quickly and there are much better flying planes for beginning 3D .
Anyone who can do rolling harriers is so far beyond average pilot skills , it may be an easy plane for you , but the average guy : nope. Thats why everyone who owned one at our Rc Club ,crashed it , often . Not the best 3D plane for average flyers.
Just an opinion 🙂
No idea what you're referring to in terms of stability. Ours was stable in almost everything but hovering during strong winds.
It does not drop a wing randomly. That's caused by stalling the airframe and not using thrust to overcome it. We performed stall tests and it gently spiraled to the ground in a power off stall. The characteristics you're describing sound like a completely different airframe.
@@TwoBrosRC Have a look on rcgroups forum for this plane. Wing drop is a issue for a few other guys with this plane .
A good 3D plane wont drop a wing .
This plane has been crashed and broken for everyone who had one at my RC Club. That makes it not a good beginners 3D plane .
Sure , I crashed by flying under goal posts at a school feild, that one was 100% pilot .
Twisted Hobbies EPP planes are much better for 3D beginners, fly better, easier to fix , less likely to break
I would have to disagree as well. I just maidened this as my first mid wing 3d plane. I thought it would be too much for me to handle as a beginner but I think it flies way more stable and predictable than the timber x I bought as my 2nd plane. I was honestly shocked. It was also way easier to land than I thought it would be. This thing has less stall tendencies than some bush planes I’ve flown.
I bought the V1 in 2015 for $179. Can't believe you put a 3500 mah battery in it. I've been using Nano-tech 3s 2650 35-70c wt. 228g
We flew it on 3s 2200, 3000, and 3500 batteries. It flew really well with all of them and there was no noticeable difference in flight characteristics between packs.