Wow! I had no idea about this at all. Great video and extremely informative. I like your channel. Great content and awesome level of detail. I hope it continues to grow because it is really cool to see your projects come to life on the track. Uniquely, you're both the builder and the driver, which is mostly very rare. Keep up the good work!
You deserve way more views than you have - your series of videos on suspension geometry has been superb, I learnt a lot. Thanks for making it so clear!
I didn't understand and did skip this topic in my second year but you explained it so well in your videos that I got interested and looked them up again. Really awesome and keep up the good work
This is the best explanation of 'toe out on turns', and the difference between racing cars and street cars that I have ever seen. Further explanation is given to understand sharp corners and long sweeping corners. Excellent instruction!
Great video It took me 3 years to understand these concepts but you made it more clear in less than 50 min ( including the last 2 videos) Love from india
Subscribed. A lot of good information. You're definitely on point when it comes to steering geometry. (...And I love the Project E55. Can't WAIT to see that completed)
Three GOOD videos. Good presentation, complete without being wordy, and 100% correct. You should follow up with the rear slip angles and how they relate to the center of the arc the car travels, body attitude, grip vs drift, and how that affects ackermann.
these are the best videos of suspension I have seen and better explanation of suspension than I got in my Automotive engineering college classes. One point is that KPI and Castor must work together. when you change the castor the lifting force will change for the direction the wheel turns . castor will change the lifting from one side to the other in a turn. You can reach a point to get no lift if you have a lot of kpi and castor. The lifting force compresses the spring so you can get the same effect as installing stiffer springs for a corner but still gives a softer spring effect on straight lines.
You've gone through the basics on Ackerman and Anti-Ackerman in the front, you can always explain toe out the same way in the rear. Also, you can go through camber gain on bump steer, low body roll center and double wish bone geometry and counteract with positive camber alignment.
Great video! Road racing cars with wide slicks can’t tolerate any toe out at high speed because the car would be unstable, ie darty. For example, when I first saw Al Holbert’s Monza at Mid Ohio probably in 1975, I noticed the rack and pinion was mounted 6 inches or so in front of the centerline of the front axle. It could have been moved further back but this location gave them lots of toe out as soon as the car turned into a corner. What that does is increase the slip angle of the inside tire making it pull the car into the corner better and killing some understeer. The angle of the steering rod to the tie rod end in a left turn accelerates the steering arm until they are perpendicular to each other while at the same time, the steering arm on the other side was already at around a 120 degree angle to the tie rod and as that angle increases the amount it pulls the arm decreases. So the outer wheel actually guides the car but the inside tire pulls the car into the corner more than if it was on the true line. This can be adjusted for driver feel and tire temperature. On a friends track champion , Late Model Sportsman car in the late Seventies, when measured from the straight ahead position to full left lock, when we got the car going fast, it had 1.5 inches of toe out!
The Ackermann optimum point would shift forwards, to the actual center of rotation if that makes any sense, and you have to run four lines, for every wheel.
@@seven9766 or the point of rotation can move rearwards too. On some cars it's variable dependant on speed. It can move the point forward for low speed maneuverability but rearward for high speed stability. Very clever systems.
Excellent explanation, I love it. So for optimized steering on a megacar, you need a vision system, programmed track data, 4 contact point load data with averaged sample rate to avoid bumps giving false load data, as well as car baseline cornering g data at various tire angles. Then separate electric steering for each tire. I'm going to build it, electric pancake motors in front, Chinese billet block with 133m bore spacing Albemet pistons similar to F1 and single mahle camincam to keep engine weight down. Two plugs per cylinder because 95mm (all manufacturers have gone to 95mm or less modular for this reason) bore is maximum optimized bore with a single spark plug. Now I just need to win the lottery or sell my house lol
Youre spot-on about angling the tie rod eyelet in so the line from center of ball joint and tie rod will meet at 'differential' center .If the tie rods are OUT FRONT OF BALL JOINTS,angle them outwards,still keeping tires straight.Check out video on you tube called 'GoKart steering explained.Including Ackermann theory' thanks, (john wade,you tube)
You're doing some excellent work. Thanks for sharing. Could you explain, when figuring out Ackerman angle geometry, if the line drawn from the front to the centre of the rear axle, should that line start at the tyre's centre line or at the scrub radius point? Or is there another point that needs to be taken into consideration? Surely the steering axis angle effects where the very begining of this line is?
I have spacers on my front end to allow wider wheels to clear the struts. So it made me wonder how the steering geometry is affected by either making the front wheels wider than the the rear wheels or alternatively, making the rear wheels wider than the front wheels
No video on the (rear) trailing arm vs wishbone? I'm beginning a project to build an off-roader tube chassis. Would have loved to get your perspective on which you would opt for.
so, a little bit of Ackerman can be handful on chicanes, low speed corners? And Anti the opposite? Of course this is not a general rule. I am just trying to understand if I got it right.
Hi would you say that regular ackerman ie both steering arms pointing to centre of rear axle would be most beneficial in a reverse trike ... im also suffering from excessive roll when two up ...do you think applying higher roll center would improve in this application ...im using harley electraglide so quite high sitting position.. cheers great vids
Interesting information. It makes me wonder if something along the lines of a 'cam' could be used to obtain a 'variable' Ackerman geometry dependant on the cornering severity. Which leads to a question: How does the Ackerman geometry interact with assisted rear steering? Which will lead to more questions. (snarf) ---Just my two cents.
Hi, would it be in accordance to racing rules to steer wheels independently using electric motors? Like the steering wheel is nothing but a sensor, wheels being steered Ackermann or anti Ackermann or something in between depending on how much the steering wheel is turned?
So, how much ackerman or anti-ackerman should a street driven performance car have/take advantage of? What's ideal for a car that focuses on mechanical grip instead of aero grip?
I am building a 32 ford roadster using Jaguar XJ6 front and rear suspension components and am curious if the stock jag front geometry will handle in a car that will be heavy in the front.
Great video. One question though - what is the relationship between toe angle and the degree of ackerman? If the ackerman can be dialed in I'm unsure why you'd ever want to run toe.
Hey do you have the patent for the w210 front and rear multi link? Here's a diagram of the rear w220 and the w140, w205, etc and it lists the patent number but I'm not sure if it's the same. www.invetr.com/chassis/benteler-premium-suspension-sport-lateral-composite-leaf-spring
No, I don't but thanks for sharing the link. Pretty useful ! I believe w210 would be different since its a different chassis but should be a similar design to the w140 or w220
It’s more to do with how slip angles in tires increase lateral grip when more vertical loads are placed on a tire. When cornering, weight transfer more onto the outside tire. Therefore, the outside tire requires more slip angle, and so achieve this, more steering angle.
Its a fantastic information, visual and presentation. Just one feed back the pronunciation of steering is deformed to string, even CC (auto generated) interprets it as string, slightly confusing at times. Also it would be more understandable to say left and right tire over inside and outside tire. :)
@@xfmotorsports Yes, but wouldn't basic ackermann say that the forward steer would mean the steering arms would be much closer to the width of the hubs? Direct line from rear axle center drawn through the front steering pivot to the steering arm connection point???
@@SteveP-vm1uc One question : does the anti Ackerman geometry has its steering arm( Ackerman arm ) pointing towards the front from the knuckle? And in Ackerman the steering arm always backwards ..?? Is this the reason for different wheel Angles?
Wow! I had no idea about this at all. Great video and extremely informative.
I like your channel. Great content and awesome level of detail. I hope it continues to grow because it is really cool to see your projects come to life on the track. Uniquely, you're both the builder and the driver, which is mostly very rare.
Keep up the good work!
diggleboy Couldn’t agree more with you
One of the best videos on Ackermann and Anti Ackermann out there.
Glad I found your channel!
The three videos I have watch are absolutely incredible. So informative! Now if I could get him to input my current setup in his program!
You deserve way more views than you have - your series of videos on suspension geometry has been superb, I learnt a lot. Thanks for making it so clear!
The best video I've seen on Ackerman, hands down! Thank you 👍🏽👍🏽
Would love to know how many people are here because of FSAE🥹
Yeah hii
Shoutout to the homies
I didn't understand and did skip this topic in my second year but you explained it so well in your videos that I got interested and looked them up again. Really awesome and keep up the good work
This is the best explanation of 'toe out on turns', and the difference between racing cars and street cars that I have ever seen. Further explanation is given to understand sharp corners and long sweeping corners. Excellent instruction!
These videos are fantastic, thank you for producing them.
Great video
It took me 3 years to understand these concepts but you made it more clear in less than 50 min ( including the last 2 videos)
Love from india
Subscribed.
A lot of good information.
You're definitely on point when it comes to steering geometry.
(...And I love the Project E55. Can't WAIT to see that completed)
Three GOOD videos. Good presentation, complete without being wordy, and 100% correct. You should follow up with the rear slip angles and how they relate to the center of the arc the car travels, body attitude, grip vs drift, and how that affects ackermann.
Excellent video and graphics. Will use to explain concepts to others. Subscribed. Don't stop.....you are tops instructor.
Great video the animations really help since I’m more a visual learner 🧐 thank for taking the time to explain in detail
again, very fascinating and well explained. thank you
thanks for your videos!!!i am a rc driver and even in a smaler scale is exactly the same geometry,and you helped to understand almost everything!!!!
I really love the way that you explain things.i learned alot from you.tnx
Another great video! Thanks for making these!
Keep uploading .
I love the explanation !
these are the best videos of suspension I have seen and better explanation of suspension than I got in my Automotive engineering college classes. One point is that KPI and Castor must work together. when you change the castor the lifting force will change for the direction the wheel turns . castor will change the lifting from one side to the other in a turn. You can reach a point to get no lift if you have a lot of kpi and castor. The lifting force compresses the spring so you can get the same effect as installing stiffer springs for a corner but still gives a softer spring effect on straight lines.
Thanks for this!
Increibles estos videos! Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge mate
These videos are amazing!
You've gone through the basics on Ackerman and Anti-Ackerman in the front, you can always explain toe out the same way in the rear. Also, you can go through camber gain on bump steer, low body roll center and double wish bone geometry and counteract with positive camber alignment.
awesome video......i am mechanical engineering student and i love your videos
great video
loved your other suspension videos too
please make more
Awesome videos man. Thank you!
Excellent videos on suspensions
finally, I understood the effect of anti-ackerman by your video, thx!
Great video! Road racing cars with wide slicks can’t tolerate any toe out at high speed because the car would be unstable, ie darty. For example, when I first saw Al Holbert’s Monza at Mid Ohio probably in 1975, I noticed the rack and pinion was mounted 6 inches or so in front of the centerline of the front axle. It could have been moved further back but this location gave them lots of toe out as soon as the car turned into a corner. What that does is increase the slip angle of the inside tire making it pull the car into the corner better and killing some understeer. The angle of the steering rod to the tie rod end in a left turn accelerates the steering arm until they are perpendicular to each other while at the same time, the steering arm on the other side was already at around a 120 degree angle to the tie rod and as that angle increases the amount it pulls the arm decreases. So the outer wheel actually guides the car but the inside tire pulls the car into the corner more than if it was on the true line. This can be adjusted for driver feel and tire temperature. On a friends track champion , Late Model Sportsman car in the late Seventies, when measured from the straight ahead position to full left lock, when we got the car going fast, it had 1.5 inches of toe out!
Very good explanation
Fantastic video, cheers
Amazing video!!
I would love to know how steering suspension changes with 4 wheel steering cars
The Ackermann optimum point would shift forwards, to the actual center of rotation if that makes any sense, and you have to run four lines, for every wheel.
@@seven9766 or the point of rotation can move rearwards too. On some cars it's variable dependant on speed. It can move the point forward for low speed maneuverability but rearward for high speed stability. Very clever systems.
Love your videos! What do you use to determine your suspension points/geometry for CAD, do you use optimum k or something?
Again really helpfull video thank you 🙂🙂🙂
great videos. Thanks!
Excellent explanation, I love it. So for optimized steering on a megacar, you need a vision system, programmed track data, 4 contact point load data with averaged sample rate to avoid bumps giving false load data, as well as car baseline cornering g data at various tire angles. Then separate electric steering for each tire. I'm going to build it, electric pancake motors in front, Chinese billet block with 133m bore spacing Albemet pistons similar to F1 and single mahle camincam to keep engine weight down. Two plugs per cylinder because 95mm (all manufacturers have gone to 95mm or less modular for this reason) bore is maximum optimized bore with a single spark plug. Now I just need to win the lottery or sell my house lol
Youre spot-on about angling the tie rod eyelet in so the line from center of ball joint and tie rod will meet at 'differential' center .If the tie rods are OUT FRONT OF BALL JOINTS,angle them outwards,still keeping tires straight.Check out video on you tube called 'GoKart steering explained.Including Ackermann theory' thanks, (john wade,you tube)
OMG you’re good. Tx!
Liked&subscribed.
Nice man pls upload more like these on vehicle dynamics
No wonder why my race car handled so well with a bent steering rack mount :)
nice presentation
You never went over the rear suspension geometry.
Grrr now I'm on the hunt!
BTW, still very informative and useful, doing some modeling on a vehicle. Thanks for your work! x)
You're doing some excellent work. Thanks for sharing.
Could you explain, when figuring out Ackerman angle geometry, if the line drawn from the front to the centre of the rear axle, should that line start at the tyre's centre line or at the scrub radius point?
Or is there another point that needs to be taken into consideration? Surely the steering axis angle effects where the very begining of this line is?
I draw the line from center of ball joint or king pin,thru tie rod eyelet,and it must meet @center of rear axle.
I have spacers on my front end to allow wider wheels to clear the struts. So it made me wonder how the steering geometry is affected by either making the front wheels wider than the the rear wheels or alternatively, making the rear wheels wider than the front wheels
Good content and it's very useful for me now, sir can you please explain about electric vehicle parts
No video on the (rear) trailing arm vs wishbone? I'm beginning a project to build an off-roader tube chassis. Would have loved to get your perspective on which you would opt for.
Excellent, thx.
Please do a video on 100% Ackerman and it's calculations using the turn radius and slip angle thing, pleaseeeeeee!
Thank you sir i really need this knowledge i liked your video and sub also.....
What simulation package you use for the suspension and steering geometry design? Adams?
so, a little bit of Ackerman can be handful on chicanes, low speed corners? And Anti the opposite? Of course this is not a general rule. I am just trying to understand if I got it right.
Hi would you say that regular ackerman ie both steering arms pointing to centre of rear axle would be most beneficial in a reverse trike ... im also suffering from excessive roll when two up ...do you think applying higher roll center would improve in this application ...im using harley electraglide so quite high sitting position.. cheers great vids
In anti Ackerman steering why the outer wheel has more angle than the inner wheel
Interesting information.
It makes me wonder if something along the lines of a 'cam' could be used to obtain a 'variable' Ackerman geometry dependant on the cornering severity.
Which leads to a question: How does the Ackerman geometry interact with assisted rear steering?
Which will lead to more questions. (snarf)
---Just my two cents.
Look up Mercedes DAS that was banned in Formula One this year.
Can u please make a video on how steering setup should be made for drifting..
hi, I was wondering, what brand is the wheel of the Benz in the beginning of this video, it looks really nice!
That was Continental Contitrack
Thanks for the awesome video, You are from which Indian state I need your assistance for a EV project.
Did you every finish the part 3 video? Would love to see your take on multi link
I'm trying to pass my driving licence but I got so many this kind of car's mechanism questions that I have never heard it before.
Hi, would it be in accordance to racing rules to steer wheels independently using electric motors? Like the steering wheel is nothing but a sensor, wheels being steered Ackermann or anti Ackermann or something in between depending on how much the steering wheel is turned?
hi what simulation software you used to simulate this...
So, how much ackerman or anti-ackerman should a street driven performance car have/take advantage of? What's ideal for a car that focuses on mechanical grip instead of aero grip?
Hi. Would that be the same measurements for front mounted steering collums aswell
Thankyou
I am building a 32 ford roadster using Jaguar XJ6 front and rear suspension components and am curious if the stock jag front geometry will handle in a car that will be heavy in the front.
Is there any other way to calculate/design for the Ackerman if I do not have the turn radius? can i also find it using steering knuckle measurements?
Hey, it would be great if you can suggest some resources where I can learn about car mechanics in depth conceptually
Hey, would you determine Ackerman by drawing a line between the two ball joints or just go with the bottom one?
akerman would be the line between the ball joints and the line thru the steering arm pivot. so it depends on the height of the steering arms.
Great video. One question though - what is the relationship between toe angle and the degree of ackerman? If the ackerman can be dialed in I'm unsure why you'd ever want to run toe.
That’s a good question maybe if a car had Ackerman then adding a little bit of toe will help.
What about drift racing? Negative Ackermann, or fully parallel?
Maybe you could have added a word about the impact your toe in/out has on your Ackerman
How to do steering calculations??
Can share u share how to find perfect Ackerman percentage,Turing angle, Ackerman angle....🙏
Which software are you using
What is the software that you are using?
Ackermann!
Would Mercedes DAS system adjust ackermann?
What software is this?
im using double wishbone suspension..
Any notes you have about this. If then please share..(Ackermann and Anti ackermann)
anti Akerman works at how much high speed (minimum)?
raj dungrani
If you can turn that speed into downforce....
Hello, What is the software you are using for simulation ??
3DS Max
Hey do you have the patent for the w210 front and rear multi link?
Here's a diagram of the rear w220 and the w140, w205, etc and it lists the patent number but I'm not sure if it's the same. www.invetr.com/chassis/benteler-premium-suspension-sport-lateral-composite-leaf-spring
No, I don't but thanks for sharing the link. Pretty useful ! I believe w210 would be different since its a different chassis but should be a similar design to the w140 or w220
Hi! Which program do you use for visualizing your suspension geometry? Thanks!
But in F1 they use anti Ackermann to scrub the outside tire and keep heat in it so I'm told.
It’s more to do with how slip angles in tires increase lateral grip when more vertical loads are placed on a tire. When cornering, weight transfer more onto the outside tire. Therefore, the outside tire requires more slip angle, and so achieve this, more steering angle.
You still haven't made the video on multi link suspension...!!!!....
Its a fantastic information, visual and presentation. Just one feed back the pronunciation of steering is deformed to string, even CC (auto generated) interprets it as string, slightly confusing at times. Also it would be more understandable to say left and right tire over inside and outside tire. :)
Why does everyone show ACKERMANN with rear of ball joint steering. Never a front steering??
Probably just because its easier to visualize this way. Front steering racks will just have longer tie rods to achieve the same geometry
@@xfmotorsports Yes, but wouldn't basic ackermann say that the forward steer would mean the steering arms would be much closer to the width of the hubs? Direct line from rear axle center drawn through the front steering pivot to the steering arm connection point???
Yes, thats right. Usually you'll find the tie rod ball joint right next to the brake disc in those.
@@SteveP-vm1uc One question : does the anti Ackerman geometry has its steering arm( Ackerman arm ) pointing towards the front from the knuckle? And in Ackerman the steering arm always backwards ..?? Is this the reason for different wheel Angles?
How many times can you incorrectly spell and pronounce Ackermann?
0:13 , ugliest fucking car
What if your steering knuckle is in front of the outer ball joints on the control arms?