Does The Order of Your Prompt Matter?
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- čas přidán 17. 07. 2024
- I combine some famous artists with some very interesting results ... what do you think happened? Does the order of the names matter in Midjourney? Am I seeing things or can you also spot the similarities?
Please let me know your opinion
Disclaimer: I do not endorse referencing these artists and trying to make money off of their names. Please use these examples for entertainment purposes only.
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You can test consistently with the --seed command (so, for example, "a castle made of glass --seed 120" would always have the seed 120 in the first position). In V4, seeds are deterministic, so --sameseed is only going to lock the top left image of the grid, but the seeds for the rest are determined algorithmically so you would always get the same grid with --seed 120. You could then change the order of the prompt to experiment.
Thanks for the heads up! I thought --sameseed didn't work on V4 but maybe I was using it incorrectly ... it's a lot to wrap your head around haha
@squirezed1519 Thanks for this. I couldn't actually find a complete answer to this --seed versus --same seed... certainly missed the first top left part.
👍
I know it probably gets old, but, thank you for the awesome content.
haha no it's helpful. I'm glad other people are enjoying the stuff I like to make.
Thanks for the comment :)
I don't know how I missed you video. Great idea!
haha yeah these videos are fun to make
Love these types of videos. Kudos again.
FYI, Remedios Varo Uranga was one of the few acknowledged female surrealist painters of the first half of the 20th century. I like what MJ is doing better than the original painter's art, but then it's all subjective. Thank you for all you are doing.
And thank you for that information! I had no idea she was female and I appreciate this community for helping me learn as we go :)
I, like yourself have been testing this quite a bit. As a traditional painter and digital painter I agree 100% with you and i've actually just given up trying. However there is one observation that i've made. And this has to do with the what is the dominating values in the contrasts between the styles of the artists. For some reason to me it feels like MJ seems to favour this when it outputs the final render. So for example with Peter and Lotte. If you think about if MJ is interpreting the mix of the images in Lotte's test by her composition and in Peters test MJ is interpreting the of images by his colors, then it means that MJ is essentially using 2 different style parameters (composition and colour) to determine what the mixed style will look like. However (and yes...lols this is so subjective) When I look at Peters test, I still see more of Lotte's style because I believe that Lotte's style from the get go is a more contrasting, hard edge style that dominates visually what the audience sees, appearing somewhat silhouette or stencil like making the final image lean to the style which is stronger in its structure. The test that would interesting is this: Take Lotte's style and mix it with Wassily Kandinsky who was a famous painter using water colours and painted Abstracts. Now we have very opposing contrasting styles and composition constructs which means that the final output of both tests done might show a better contrast in the results, thus giving a more defining answer to the question (or not......lols) I just love MJ and these experiments.
Thank you so much for your insights. That's a really great point about composition vs color and what MJ would favor more .. or what MJ interprets as more important to the name of these artists.
I like your idea about testing Lotte again and seeing if her composition remains dominant. I'll have to experiment some more haha I can't believe how much there is to process with this technology
You should really try that experiment for yourself .. the results are interesting haha either MJ has a crush on Lotte or maybe Wassily is just really underrepresented
@@FutureTechPilot most definitley, doing some testing over the weekend with artist who have very different styles...however I think you definitely on to something with MJ's crush on Lotte...lols
7:35 there is something that amazes me a lot is that love some are generated by AI of an specific artist Like this one, but I don't enjoy the real art made by then to much
I feel the same. Particularly, the MJ artwork created in the style of Remedios Varo is very intriguing to me, but I wasn't too interested in the work of Varo I found online.
That's a really cool experience, thanks for sharing it. I think I would probably agree as well, maybe it's the resolution or the ability to choose the prompt but yeah, seeing the a.i gather the essence of a real artist is always impressive to me
I was vaguely involved in the underground comics of the 1970-80s with art by
Robert Crumb
Matt Groening (pre Simpsons)
Gilbert Shelton
Barbara "Willy" Mendes
Sergio Aragonés
Trina Robbins
Vaughn Bode
Spain Rodriguez
And posters and calendars by
frank frazetta
boris vallejo
Brothers Hildebrandt (Greg and Tim Hildebrandt)
Check them out
Thanks a lot for those suggestions! Sounds like quite the group of artists haha I wonder if MJ knows them all
These videos rock. I have watched a few and cool with the two artist.
Curious how do you come up with the first or the prompt as kind of random?
Curious as seems like the more ambiguous more art style.
How do I come up with the first part of the prompt? I like to string together some cool words and see what Midjourney can come up with. It's kind of a challenge ... because we know MJ can make what you want if you are extra specific, but I like seeing what it comes up with when you are vague or poetic
@@FutureTechPilot Either way great job and yes, sometimes those strings of thought can produce even more goodness.
@@andrewblevins4591 Exactly!
Hi there, since I have been following your videos and since you got me interested in mixing the styles of different artists I checked the community feed on MJ to find new artists I could be working/mixing with. I noticed that many users use two and often more artists to get a certain effect. When I checked the different artists by using "art in the style of ... " or similiar phrases I noticed that there a quite a lot of artists, which are used by MJ-users, (for example GUY BOUDRO - just to name one of several artists) I get some good effects, but they have nothing to do with the real artwork of that special artist. Do you know that problem or am I maybe just using the wrong words/prompts?
Hmm ... some things come to mind but I don't know for sure.
1. maybe you're using too many artists in your prompt?
2. the phrase 'in the style of' might be causing the a.i to stray off course. Like, I use "artwork by" for everything you see in the video and I think it usually works out for me.
3. maybe the a.i hasn't been trained on the artist you're mentioning and it's just MJ making the pictures how it wants to.
I'm not sure though, please let me know if you try anything new and get any changes
As always, thank you!
1. The order absolutely does matter in my experience. This becomes even more apparent if you combine more than 2 artists' styles.
2. If the art styles are _very_ different, the order becomes even more apparent. Throw in Frank Miller, Dali, H.R. Geiger and any other artist from a different genre and create a work that none of them focused on, and then play around.
3. I think MJ tends to pick the most prominent aspect(s) of the artist's work and then utilizes them based on the order as well.
4. If you keep re-rolling, MJ will start weighing the order differently to 'learn' what type of output you're leaning towards. Once you start remixing a certain variant, I've noticed it decides to stick to that style.
5. Increasing the stylize amount throws the whole order thing right out the window! I think the highest setting for stylize is MJ's version of 'I'm taking a break and going to bloody churn out whatever I want'! 🙂
Thank you again. 👍
hahah wow ... I NEVER considered using stylize in these kind of prompts ... but I should include that in my next video.
Thanks for all your points, it's good to know that other people share my observations haha
Prompt order matters more in longer prompts. For shorter prompts like these, you would want to use weighting to make substantial differences.
Would love to see you retry using weighting on the artist names.
haha in a previous video I played with weights a little, but then someone in the comments recommended I stop doing that because splitting the prompt up was causing MJ to have too much influence over the artist. Although I suppose I could skew the weight in the artists favor ... so I will consider trying that next time. Thank you for the idea!
@@FutureTechPilot Haha, oh wow. Well, either way I appreciate the video! Really liking the style of Remedios Varo in MJ
@@JustinFosterJustinchi Glad to hear, man. Thanks again for the comment
You should try Kay Nielsen and John Singer Sargent.
Thank you so much for that suggestion! I'm writing it down now haha
I haven’t tested thousands of specific seeds, but with over 21K MJ images combining artists, I’ve definitely found artist order matters- at least in the last 1000+ images I’ve generated.
Now that said, for V3, Alphonse Mucha’s footprint stayed dominant no matter what order I put him in, as long as he was in the first three artists. When I combined him with 3-6 other artists and put him in 4th or higher position, Gustav Klimt would usually take dominance- as long as he was in the first three positions as well. Ditto Van Gogh. But this didn’t seem to hold for other artists, though my tests with them aren’t as significant.
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. I guess there is a sweet spot for artist strength eh? Or maybe MJ just responds stronger to certain artists ... I wonder if there will ever be like an official documentation on the process
@@FutureTechPilot The 2nd is quite possible for the artists I've used. E.g., some artists might have more works or have been weight by an MJ-defined popularity. Or it's an algorithm thing, or a combination, maybe?
@@happyfreeky maybe!
Have you checked out the new "/blend" by any chance?
Yes! I'll be making a video about it soon ... haha I need to be quicker at talking about the updates. My bad!
@@FutureTechPilot lols, no stress, just stumbled upon it yesterday by chance and found it interesting in regards to the subject of this video also.
@@Juan2142 Yeah that's a really good point, I could use /blend in the next video and just combine the artists that way haha
I own an original Peter Max painted print ..........his signature is awesome because it's a heavy almost impasto like painted signature of like 3 or 4 complimentary colors
Wow, that's a cool story. And I bet that print is unreal haha I love how MJ introduces me to all these artists
@@FutureTechPilot
I've met Peter MaxIn person a few times. I knew his amazing wife quite well........sadly she passed away a couple of years ago and Peter is not in good health. 😔
@@LouisGedo I'm very sorry to hear that
OK, so it's working now....?
Anyway... I'll start again.
Another great video here, and all your help and advice on MJ has been super useful, so thank you! 🙏
This vid reminds me of an experiment that i'm currently running on MJ. I have been using the same prompt, but adding 2 random artist styles to create new and unique styles. The prompt is: "Spider Man swinging through the city streets, by [artist name] & [artist name]". I have slightly altered the prompt occasionally, but it's mostly been that.
What has blown my mind is the results..... For example, when I insert a classical artist, Spidey is suddenly wearing a cloak & hood while swinging through ancient city streets on ROPE!!
Other combinations have turned him into a female, or a baby.... it's been completely fascinating!😀
I have done over 500 combinations, and I thought you might like to check them out. Here's my collection link:
www.midjourney.com/app/collections/FatqdhBGSW-ReEM8Lxi3Rw/
Thanks again for all the awesome content!
And thank you so much for your comment and the link to your gallery! 95% of those pictures are absolutely insane man. Such a cool prompt and a cool experiment to try out over time.
As far as your disappearing comments go ... it's strange, I could see one of them when I click on my notifications but when I click on the comment to respond to it, nothing shows up?
I'm not sure why that would happen lol but thanks for fighting through it haha
I think the order matters because the first time you run it, it uses the first artist as the foundation but the second time you run it; I believe MJ knows you just ran your prompts with that same order and it ‘think’: “Oh wait, you just ran the same prompts in the same order. Let me give you some variation in case you are not happy with the results I just gave you”. Because notice that the first time you ran your prompts, it used the first artist as a foundation every time. At least that’s my conclusion after watching your excellent video. What do you think matey?
That's a really interesting theory .. and I know other people have thought that same way in the past ... my understanding of it though, is that MJ doesn't have a memory. Even though it may look like it is offering up suggestions, I think they are just randomly chosen seeds. But between me and you, I completely agree hahah it feels like it knows what you want at first and then tries to bring something else if you ask for it again :P I'm just 99% sure what we think is not actually possible lol
@@FutureTechPilot True, it would be so cool to know how it works. Without memory, it could be an algorithm saying something like: ‘check the last 5 creations and pick a different order of prompts if two or more styles are chosen’ or something like that. But I agree with you, who knows.
Imagine the power of MJ in the next 5 years. It’ll be the Michael Jordan of AIs! 😉
I've run thousands of prompt tests at this point, since MJ V3, and artist style order absolutely matters to what can be anticipated from the generated set. The way I interpret results is that the first artist tends to drive the Principles of the art, and the second artist influences the final direction. Both influences are almost always present, and despite me hearing that prompt order doesn't matter, I have routinely seen majority of outputs where this simply is not true. Maybe it has to do with MJ two concepts that intrinsically come with some adherence to art Principles, and so when MJ diffusion cycles through the prompt string, it inadvertently reinforces those art Principles faster for the first style nudge in the prompt?!? I've tested this on sets of three artist influences and I tend to see the same. That said, I've had examples routinely make one artist style more dominant than the others, regardless of the order. I've tested this on people prompts too. Same outcome with two or three swapped positions... First always seems to take more weighting. Curious stuff!
Thanks so much for your insights!! I agree, that at first glance, it seems pretty obvious the order matters haha but like you said, you'll hear that it doesn't matter ... and maybe they're right?
Either way, thanks for doing all the research and letting me know your view on it.
Maybe one day the debate will be settled for sure haha
Midjourney guide here -- not just styles, but for everything, order does indeed matter. Things towards the front of the prompt will figure more prominently and are less likely to be ignored, than things towards the back. This is the word from the developers themselves.
@@gejyspa Thank you so much for clearing that up. I thought I had read that somewhere, and I went looking for it in the documentation online but I couldn't find it ...
So thanks for sharing your insight!
You do know Midjourney has word weight? Default weight is 1 but you can alter it. Exp: Elon Musk::2 on Mars::0.5 then Elon Musk will be more prominent in the photo than mars. Just put the word weight behind the artist.
Yeah I've kinda tried that in previous videos but for this one someone recommended I use commas and leave the prompt as a whole ... Just wondering how much of a different experience you'll have doing it one way or the other. It's a lot to process haha
order definitely doesn't matter, that's the point of weights in the first place....so if you did the first artist with a higher weight than the second, then yeah of course it'll come out looking like the first artist was "favored" in the final design. When they're just put in together w/o weights though, they're getting equally as much data pulled for each of them...
ps-- my favorite style so far (if you like graffiti, that is) is to use *"in the style of 5pointz graffiti art/artists/artwork"* (& if you want to be more specific you can always add in NYC to the "style of 5pointz NYC graffiti artists") - fun way to see how they spin it is to use well-known images (like i did "the great wave off kanagawa" really well-known/widely-shared piece in 5pointz style and it made some epic stuff....tons of cool big tags & made the art into graffiti murals and stuff like that...by far my favorite style to use in my prompts so far...(also i use promptomania.com when i really want to dial-in my prompts - by *far* the best prompt-builder/editor i've come across, it's very helpful & has visual aids to give you a much clearer idea of what you're inputting)
Thanks so much for your comment. Super helpful stuff and I love suggestions. I'm gonna try that Graffiti one out soon haha and I'll have to check out promptomania asap
@@FutureTechPilot promptomania is *really* good for when you're trying to get a super-specific aesthetic but can't figure out how to get it from a prompt, in my experience...mainly bc of how much detail it'll help you cram into one prompt w/o sacrificing other parts of the finishing product somehow - plus it's a great guide/resource for making the absolute most out of weights in your prompts. Enjoy!
@@mkm1856 Those are some really great points! Thanks for the breakdown
Remedios Varo is a woman
haha yes someone else already filled me in but thank you for the correction!