A quick guide to how to access the voices: 1. Cheated Chapter 1 - Enter the basement with the knife, slay the princess, then investigate her body. 2. Opportunist Chapter 1 - Enter the basement without the knife and lie to the Princess. When the Narrator throws the knife, slay her. 3. Cold Chapter 1 - Enter the basement with the knife. Slay the Princess without discussion or hesitation (ALSO GIVES THE GOOD ENDING) 4. Contrarian Chapter 1 - Refuse to enter the cabin. 5. Stubborn Chapter 1 - Enter the basement with the knife and hesitate before slaying the Princess. 6. Skeptical Chapter 1 - Enter the basement with the knife but drop it when the Princess asks you to. Ask her about ending the world and tell her you believe her. Save her. 7. Smitten Chapter 1 - Enter the basement without the knife and tell the Princess you want to save her. When the Narrator throws the knife, use it to free her. 8. Hunted Chapter 1 - Enter the basement without the knife. When the Narrator throws the knife, attempt to slay the Princess, but give up. 9. Broken Chapter 1 - Enter the basement with the knife and refuse to drop it. Attempt to slay the Princess, and fail. 10. Paranoid Chapter 1 - Enter the basement without the knife but go back for it. Once she’s free, lock her inside. (Guide from Yekbot)
A small note on my understanding of it, she isn't death, she is change. But for the god that created you, change means the death of all he knows and he fails to see that it is also the birth of something new.
@NecrochildK yes, you are correct. She is the capacity for change but has death woven inside of her. The narrator (well, the mortal he was before he died) tore apart the cycle of life and death and wove the princess and the protagonist out of it. The Shifting Mound says she contains death in her multitudes, but she is not death itself. She embodies it.
@@pixelpondering She doesn't embody death, she embodies change. Death is often times a part of change. The death of something old means the birth of something new. Having death woven into her doesn't make her the embodiment of death, it just means sometimes it's a consequence of change.
It's explicitly stated multiple times that the princess is NOT just death, itself. She contains death within her "multitudes," she says that much herself - but it's more that the princess represents the flow of creation and destruction, life and death, the constant karmic rebirth of all things existing. She is not the end, she is not the ender: she is change itself. We, on the other hand, appear to be the very existence of the "something," that the narrator alludes to. If what she has dictated, with nothing itself not existing in the eye of the beholder, as the paradoxical nature renders "nothing," to hold no meaning to a conscious mind, that we are essentially "something." we are the long-quiet, because we are the plane of existence itself, SEPARATE from change itself. No creation, no destruction. No equal forces to endlessly cancel each other out and spur on one another. We are what exists, simply because it exists, apart from ANY form of perception. Because without the constant ebb and flow of change, the conscious mind cannot percieve the world around it. If nothing changes, then is anything actively EXISTING? if all you know is a stagnant repose, if that's all there is, then what else is there? where does it all begin and end? With the long quiet, all meaning behind existence, the very HUMAN perception of life itself, is gone without death, let alone the cycle of rebirth. And lastly, when the narrator states he put a piece of one another, in both of us, I personally believe this refers to consciousness itself. He anthropomorphized the princess, and the protag. He gave them consciousness. He made her reactive, similar to our own form as the long-quiet. Being malleable and passive, unless spurred towards a reflection of it's stimuli. And he made us pro-active, forcing the immediate consequences of true spontaneous decision to be our incentive to move forward. We cary chaos within ourselves, as the long-quiet, given conscious form, and she now is strictly ordered, as the shifting-mound, now given consciousness to bind her to singular forms of ever-waiting, ever-lasting constructs. She can be anything, but only if one is there to instigate CHANGE, whether that's creation or destruction. Ironically, this cycle would be inverted. We would be the ones to be interacted with, by the forces of rebirth that the princess embodies. But he put a piece of her in us, and a piece of us in her. And even moreso, ironically, in attempting to destroy the cycle of rebirth, we can only ever now either create, or destroy. Whichever world we enter through our decisions, that reality is ABSOLUTE. we start down a path, we're almost self-deterministically employed to finish that path. Creation and destruction, as definitive as could be. Just how the narrator wanted it, essentially.
Very well said. Exactly, yes. Perhaps "embodiment" wasn't the most effective term to use, but she does have death woven into her... therefore, she contains it within the context of her physical manifestation. She embodies it, which is how I was using the term. When the cycle of life of death were torn apart, it was torn in a rough and jagged manner so that a part of life clung to death and a part of death clung to life. I appreciate your detailed and thoughtful response. It is wonderful to see such an insightful take.
@@pixelpondering honestly it took actually writing it out in a semi-heated yet (I'd like to believe) earnest-as-impassioned response to the first legit review for this masterpiece of a story, for me to actually put it all together thanks are reciprocated, I'm glad people are appreciating this incredible work of pure human speculation
It was a lot to put all together for sure! I ended up playing this game countless times and I traveled down a seemingly endless number of narrative threads. Organizing the massive amount of details I collected into a succinct format that was coherent (or at least semi-coherent I hope lol) enough for a CZcams video was more of a challenge than you may imagine. That's why I truly appreciate the time others take to dig deep into games like this and share their perspective with me.
The Narrator was the manifestation of the "gods' will" which would probably resemble the creator's will to preserve his/her world so I guess the Narrator wanted to rid the world of change (the princess) and leave it, preserve it static (the long quiet) It all makes sense!!
@@user-nf3kz9ee2n change does not need death to exist but death needs change to exist if death is a constant than there was never nothing living to be death to begin with, the narrator did not want to get rid of change but if sacrifing change to have just life forever than we would pay the price to have it since his world would die with nobody left than whats the point to have death if everything will die and nothing new would come out of it? i guess at least what he thinks of that
One thing I like about the Tower is that her power lies solely in her words, which themselves don't have any power; they can only control you because you let them. Broken is so consumed in his hopelessness (and secret simping) that he doesn't realize just how much power the protagonist actually has, and won't even try to resist the princess. The Narrator however tells you "Those are just words, you don't have to listen to them." and if you take that to heart, you can resist the princess and fight back against her commands, upon which, you realize that the Tower is actually kind of wimpy in a fight. Yes, she does beat you to a pulp, but only after most of the damage was done by yourself. The Tower itself only _appears_ to be strong and imposing, where in actuality she's weak and taking advantage of your submissiveness.
I was actually just speaking with another commenter about the Tower and this is an exchange that I need to return to because each time I played through the story with her, I was never able to engage in a fight with her. Her words (or the Broken's influence) always prevailed and I would like to see the outcome where the protagonist is able to regain control. This seems like such a profound moment for the protagonist.
Yep, I feel like the Tower's power lying only in her words makes for a good parallel to the Narrator. After all you and the princess are both godlike beings, and the only reason either of you are bound by the Narrator's reality is because you believe he has the power to control it. There are a few routes where you can subvert that by the voices just simply refusing to believe what he says and taking control of the narrative, which parallels how you can defeat the Tower by refusing to let her have control.
@@coffeewolfproductions9113ah yes, narrator losing power because voices stop listening narrator: "the princes punches a hole in your chest. everything goes dark, and you di-" stubborn: "nuh-uh." narrator: "THE FUCK YOU MEAN NUH-UH?"
1:33 a little correction... The Shifting Mound isn't an avatar of death, but of change. Which includes death, but eliminating her means to rid change and growth itself, not just death.
You are absolutely correct. That is what I was referring to when I said that she "has the ability to transform into whatever others perceive her to be. Constantly shifting, ebbing, and flowing." I was, perhaps, a bit too flowery with my words and will be sure to be more clear with statements next time. She embodies death, it is a part of her...woven into her, but I know she is not death itself.
This video was pretty nice! What I would like to note is how The Contrarian seems to gain a sense of remorse during The Stranger ending. At first he was being his usual self. But when the princess started to distort, he started to grow confused and irritated. And by the end of the whole ordeal, he started to feel remorseful, realizing that his (or our) actions had consequences and even said that we should probably help her. I thought that part was really neat.
@@pixelpondering Something you missed in the video. *Spoiler for secret regarding him* But the princess is based off the first princess you meet. the first.. meaning if you don't go to the cabin at the start you first meet her in chapter 2. This actually causes the Voice of the Contrarion to be around in the end. You get to see a shift in his personality after having gained understanding of the consequences of actions.
@@phantom-ri2tg You are so right. I definitely noticed the shift in his personality after seeing the consequences of his actions, but that's a good point that since you don't meet her at all until Chapter 2, that causes the Contrarian. As I think about it now, it makes sense for him to show up because the protagonist has direct no point of reference for who she is like he does when he meets her in chapter 1. She's all of her versions and none of her versions at the same time because, having never met her, she's still essentially an unknown. And after reading your comment I went back to refresh my memory of my footage and I realized something I didn't before. There is a shift in his personality because, just like the princess is all versions of her at once, the voice of the Contrarian is also a combination of all of the other voices. When the protagonist is going down the stairs, he is essentially pulled apart and put back together with all of the feelings and emotions that we see all of the other voices have. That web of emotional tangles is all of the voices converging, likely because in chapter 1, since all of the cabins kept appearing, there were versions of the protagonist that interacted with the princess even though the one we are playing as does not have direct knowledge of it. And when the protagonist reaches the bottom of the stairs he says he feels different yet the same, and that is because he is still him but also is now layered with the other memories and voices that did get to meet her. So the princess fracturing is in response to all of the different ways that the protagonist is thinking/feeling about her at once. That whole storyline makes SO much more sense now. Thank you for sharing that! It helped me see things more clearly.
@@phantom-ri2tg I played through that scenario at least 3 times but it's been a while and my memory is fuzzy on the details. I'll have to go back and review those recordings to hear the variations in the dialogue. I don't recall having a frame a reference since we didn't see her in chapter 1. However, if the game in some way pulled from knowledge from prior loops (or simply the ability of the princess and protagonist to "break the construct" so to speak) I can definitely see that happening. I'll have to go back through it with this knew information and make sense of it.
The Princess, and by extension the Shifting Mound, is Change. Transformation. The right questions to the Narrator reveal as much, and that THAT is why he can't tell you anything. With a "Mortal" perspective before becoming The Long Quiet, your perspective shapes who and what she is. "She can do it, if only you believe her to be able to." It's why she has Death within her. Death is a transformation. The only thing about her that isn't transforming is her opinions, so righteously sure of her Divine Right... Until you reach her Heart. The truth at the very center of her being. She can't run from what she is, but she knows that's not her as much as you do. It's why I personally believe "Strange Beginnings" combined with "And? What happens next?" is the best ending. You leave with her as she is truly, not confining her to a singular being, but at the same time, with the understanding and perspective of a mortal. Death is returned not as a certainty, but as a choice.
I loved watching this - one contrary point though, I don't think the Burned Grey hated you at all. She explicitly states that she wants to burn down the cabin because she (correctly, imo) identifies this location and construct as the thing keeping you two apart even though you're in love. At some point she says (not exact words just me remembering) "It's this place that keeps us killing each other". She burns both alive in what I consider a yandere attempt at fusing together wholly, and the Smitten seems to agree with her.
That's a really excellent point. I think you're completely right that it was more about the feelings towards the cabin/circumstances than the protagonist at that point.
It's nice to see you dive at length into each piece of the psycho-narrative, each voice its own variation on seeing. Reminds me of Disco Elysium, which also captures distinct voices with distinct outlooks competing over what's real. Facts in themselves do not lend their own interpretations. We are perceivers, deciphering, molding for both memory and communication and thus limiting to an extent what's there, and then bickering with others over the differences of our perspectives. This game seems to hone in on that bickering quality of different selves, using storytelling choices from the player as a means of showing how there's always storytelling in life, in perception of life. It's so nice that you're diving so deep. This is a game I was not aware of and would not have played. Yet it seems done with care. And so is your analysis of it (done with care). By the end of this vid I wished it went on far longer. Felt like I was playing the game vicariously through your eyes. Really phenomenal job!
This game could easily be played as just a cool little horror visual novel, but it was such an intriguing story... much deeper than you'd expect going into this. I thought it was an interesting premise and didn't even know about the inner voices until I got into it and I think their inclusion elevated what could have been simply branching paths of dialogue into a myriad of unique experiences. A single play through can take about 3 hours, but I think I played about 27 hours or so because I just kept finding new narrative threads to follow! All of the voices had such an interesting perspective on the situation, and I absolutely appreciated how much time and effort the developers put into the interconnectedness of the protagonist, the princess, and the construct. It's interesting that you mentioned wishing this was longer because I scrapped a lot of the script. I wrote maybe 3 versions, but it kept feeling disjointed since I just had so many things to say! Ultimately, I leaned into my therapy background to shape the script and left a lot on the cutting room floor, but it's good to know that extending the analysis would have been well received. I'll keep that in mind for future videos. Also, I recently aquired Disco Elysium but haven't played it yet. It sounds like this is one to play sooner than later.
@@pixelpondering You are lucky to have your first playthrough of Disco Elysium ahead of you: it is as near to literary excellence as I've experienced in a game. We truly may never get another game like it again. When you play it, allow yourself as long a length of uninterrupted time as you can. Sink in for a while.
Really nice break down video. I chuckled at your "manifesting your destiny" comment. I have a few friends who have used that term "manifesting" things in their lives recently😆
really wish there was a warning for the spoiler at the very beginning. doesn't take the enjoyment out of the story i suppose, but it was really abrupt. i'll be looking forward to coming back here after im fully done with the game
I apologize for that. I usually do but it slipped through the cracks this time. I will be sure to include a clear spoiler warning next time. I appreciate that feedback.
One of my favourite things to do in this game is to build my own narrative with its routes with an idea of a route yet see how it goes. (Aswel as an idea of how I want the protagonist to be. Like being a neutral anti-hero of sorts and so on.)
@@pixelpondering Haha yeah! I love storytelling and roleplaying (as long it isnt cringe/weird) and I often have fun doing that in Slay The Princess, and during those routes I tend to imagine visions of what the protagonist may be feeling haha. Like skeptical to hold the blade yet willing to do the job aswel as confused/frustrated at what he has to do sort of thing for the first route haha.
I think I might have to take some time and try roleplaying like this! Especially as the routes start to loop and they remember more and more, it will be interesting to see how the story progresses and how both the princess and the protagonist ends up in the end!
@@pixelpondering Its a fun _prespective_ with future playthroughs as I often imagine that the protagonist might be feeling/thinking. Coming back to that narrative I mentioned, I imagine that he would be skeptical to hold the blade yet willing to do the job without hesitation, yet it feels wrong. SO when The Spectre route rolled in, he tried to make up for his actions as he hates what he did. (I really wanted to talk about that little arc haha!) Kinda like that haha! I think with all those routes, the ending would probably end up being where you and the princess would escape the cabin. Its a lot of fun personally! So I think you might have fun with it aswel haha! :D
Ah! So since he skeptical but did it anyway, he experienced guilt since he had to face the consequences of his decision with The Spectre. I imagine, perhaps, then would he allow her to possess him as a way of making amends? That's an interesting arc and now it has me really thinking through so many narrative threads the game could follow. I really love this idea!
Damn, i loved the Stubborn, and i say HE LOVED the princess for F sure. Not only that, i will say that his love was as big as the Smitten. It's a voice that called so much to me i got angry at the game lol
Oh... so you can get other voice combo in Fury. I always thought it was only Broken and Stubborn but you can get Contrarian instead. I knew that other chapters 3 has diffrent voices combos but not this one.
I knew there had to be at least one other combination for Fury, but I didn't figure out how to trigger the Broken/Stubborn combination. There were a few of the chapters that had different combinations of voices. For instance the Wild and the Wraith also had different voice combinations that played out with the same scenario.
@@pixelpondering I got it by either killing Tower and getting Fury that way. Or instead of running away from Adversary when she breaks chain starting to ask voices “what are we doing” and getting killed. This way we get Stubborn/Broken and their dialogues completely different depending on who was here first. I loved hearing Broken crying because Tower is dead while Stubborn being “we killed a God yo let’s go”😂 Also Eye of the needle can have either Skeptic (If you tried to free adversary) or Hunted (if you tried to outmaneuver her in a fight so to speak) and Den chapter has two variations depending if you ended it on defensive or on offensive.
Okay, so hooooooooow did you actually kill the Tower? I tried to do that multiple times but she or the Broken just kept taking control. I need to run through that scenario again and really be careful with the options. I'd love to hear that dialogue between Broken and Stubborn on that. I freed the Eye of the Needle and I outran her, but I didn't get a chance to fight her. That's another one I need to go back and do as well. I was trying to get all of the achievements but 97 is a LOT. I have 83 of them and I think killing the Tower and fighting the Adversary are two of them.
@@pixelpondering take the knife. Refuse to drop it. Refuse to kneel. Don’t talk to her at all and just pick refusing option. That works for me. Also I never told her she supposed to end the world in first chapter so maybe it’s also important variable to unlock this.
@@pixelpondering Big imho ahead. If you get Fury through Tower the chapter makes more sense because when Tower and you die her having bleeding chest and you hurting yourself while coming to her create this viscera imagery in your head that prevails in this chapter much better. It’s the same like with Wild and Wraith where meeting them after Witch and Spectre feels more natural then through Beast and Nightmare.
The princess isn't death but the idea of change while we are the concept of X. Whatever needs to change be it life to death or the day changing into night. Without the princess there literally nothing. No end or beginning while she's without an anchor. She knows that something is wrong
Do you mean to you personally or something more generally available? By that second option I meant the Crestfallen Undead sitting at the Firelink Shrine.
A quick guide to how to access the voices:
1. Cheated
Chapter 1 - Enter the basement with the knife, slay the princess, then investigate her body.
2. Opportunist
Chapter 1 - Enter the basement without the knife and lie to the Princess. When the Narrator throws the knife, slay her.
3. Cold
Chapter 1 - Enter the basement with the knife. Slay the Princess without discussion or hesitation (ALSO GIVES THE GOOD ENDING)
4. Contrarian
Chapter 1 - Refuse to enter the cabin.
5. Stubborn
Chapter 1 - Enter the basement with the knife and hesitate before slaying the Princess.
6. Skeptical
Chapter 1 - Enter the basement with the knife but drop it when the Princess asks you to. Ask her about ending the world and tell her you believe her. Save her.
7. Smitten
Chapter 1 - Enter the basement without the knife and tell the Princess you want to save her. When the Narrator throws the knife, use it to free her.
8. Hunted
Chapter 1 - Enter the basement without the knife. When the Narrator throws the knife, attempt to slay the Princess, but give up.
9. Broken
Chapter 1 - Enter the basement with the knife and refuse to drop it. Attempt to slay the Princess, and fail.
10. Paranoid
Chapter 1 - Enter the basement without the knife but go back for it. Once she’s free, lock her inside.
(Guide from Yekbot)
A small note on my understanding of it, she isn't death, she is change. But for the god that created you, change means the death of all he knows and he fails to see that it is also the birth of something new.
@NecrochildK yes, you are correct. She is the capacity for change but has death woven inside of her. The narrator (well, the mortal he was before he died) tore apart the cycle of life and death and wove the princess and the protagonist out of it. The Shifting Mound says she contains death in her multitudes, but she is not death itself. She embodies it.
@@pixelpondering She doesn't embody death, she embodies change. Death is often times a part of change. The death of something old means the birth of something new. Having death woven into her doesn't make her the embodiment of death, it just means sometimes it's a consequence of change.
It's explicitly stated multiple times that the princess is NOT just death, itself. She contains death within her "multitudes," she says that much herself - but it's more that the princess represents the flow of creation and destruction, life and death, the constant karmic rebirth of all things existing. She is not the end, she is not the ender: she is change itself. We, on the other hand, appear to be the very existence of the "something," that the narrator alludes to. If what she has dictated, with nothing itself not existing in the eye of the beholder, as the paradoxical nature renders "nothing," to hold no meaning to a conscious mind, that we are essentially "something." we are the long-quiet, because we are the plane of existence itself, SEPARATE from change itself. No creation, no destruction. No equal forces to endlessly cancel each other out and spur on one another. We are what exists, simply because it exists, apart from ANY form of perception. Because without the constant ebb and flow of change, the conscious mind cannot percieve the world around it. If nothing changes, then is anything actively EXISTING? if all you know is a stagnant repose, if that's all there is, then what else is there? where does it all begin and end? With the long quiet, all meaning behind existence, the very HUMAN perception of life itself, is gone without death, let alone the cycle of rebirth. And lastly, when the narrator states he put a piece of one another, in both of us, I personally believe this refers to consciousness itself. He anthropomorphized the princess, and the protag. He gave them consciousness. He made her reactive, similar to our own form as the long-quiet. Being malleable and passive, unless spurred towards a reflection of it's stimuli. And he made us pro-active, forcing the immediate consequences of true spontaneous decision to be our incentive to move forward. We cary chaos within ourselves, as the long-quiet, given conscious form, and she now is strictly ordered, as the shifting-mound, now given consciousness to bind her to singular forms of ever-waiting, ever-lasting constructs. She can be anything, but only if one is there to instigate CHANGE, whether that's creation or destruction. Ironically, this cycle would be inverted. We would be the ones to be interacted with, by the forces of rebirth that the princess embodies. But he put a piece of her in us, and a piece of us in her. And even moreso, ironically, in attempting to destroy the cycle of rebirth, we can only ever now either create, or destroy. Whichever world we enter through our decisions, that reality is ABSOLUTE. we start down a path, we're almost self-deterministically employed to finish that path. Creation and destruction, as definitive as could be. Just how the narrator wanted it, essentially.
Very well said. Exactly, yes. Perhaps "embodiment" wasn't the most effective term to use, but she does have death woven into her... therefore, she contains it within the context of her physical manifestation. She embodies it, which is how I was using the term. When the cycle of life of death were torn apart, it was torn in a rough and jagged manner so that a part of life clung to death and a part of death clung to life.
I appreciate your detailed and thoughtful response. It is wonderful to see such an insightful take.
@@pixelpondering honestly it took actually writing it out in a semi-heated yet (I'd like to believe) earnest-as-impassioned response to the first legit review for this masterpiece of a story, for me to actually put it all together
thanks are reciprocated, I'm glad people are appreciating this incredible work of pure human speculation
It was a lot to put all together for sure! I ended up playing this game countless times and I traveled down a seemingly endless number of narrative threads. Organizing the massive amount of details I collected into a succinct format that was coherent (or at least semi-coherent I hope lol) enough for a CZcams video was more of a challenge than you may imagine. That's why I truly appreciate the time others take to dig deep into games like this and share their perspective with me.
The Narrator was the manifestation of the "gods' will" which would probably resemble the creator's will to preserve his/her world so I guess the Narrator wanted to rid the world of change (the princess) and leave it, preserve it static (the long quiet)
It all makes sense!!
@@user-nf3kz9ee2n change does not need death to exist but death needs change to exist if death is a constant than there was never nothing living to be death to begin with, the narrator did not want to get rid of change but if sacrifing change to have just life forever than we would pay the price to have it since his world would die with nobody left than whats the point to have death if everything will die and nothing new would come out of it? i guess at least what he thinks of that
One thing I like about the Tower is that her power lies solely in her words, which themselves don't have any power; they can only control you because you let them. Broken is so consumed in his hopelessness (and secret simping) that he doesn't realize just how much power the protagonist actually has, and won't even try to resist the princess.
The Narrator however tells you "Those are just words, you don't have to listen to them." and if you take that to heart, you can resist the princess and fight back against her commands, upon which, you realize that the Tower is actually kind of wimpy in a fight. Yes, she does beat you to a pulp, but only after most of the damage was done by yourself. The Tower itself only _appears_ to be strong and imposing, where in actuality she's weak and taking advantage of your submissiveness.
I was actually just speaking with another commenter about the Tower and this is an exchange that I need to return to because each time I played through the story with her, I was never able to engage in a fight with her. Her words (or the Broken's influence) always prevailed and I would like to see the outcome where the protagonist is able to regain control. This seems like such a profound moment for the protagonist.
Hi I guess I’m the other commenter. LOL. Sorry for attention seeking I just had to do this. Reminds me of “I’m stuff” meme.
Yep, I feel like the Tower's power lying only in her words makes for a good parallel to the Narrator. After all you and the princess are both godlike beings, and the only reason either of you are bound by the Narrator's reality is because you believe he has the power to control it. There are a few routes where you can subvert that by the voices just simply refusing to believe what he says and taking control of the narrative, which parallels how you can defeat the Tower by refusing to let her have control.
In comparison to when she achieves apotheoses where you’ve fallen into her lies and gave her ultimate power
@@coffeewolfproductions9113ah yes, narrator losing power because voices stop listening
narrator: "the princes punches a hole in your chest. everything goes dark, and you di-"
stubborn: "nuh-uh."
narrator: "THE FUCK YOU MEAN NUH-UH?"
1:33 a little correction... The Shifting Mound isn't an avatar of death, but of change. Which includes death, but eliminating her means to rid change and growth itself, not just death.
You are absolutely correct. That is what I was referring to when I said that she "has the ability to transform into whatever others perceive her to be. Constantly shifting, ebbing, and flowing." I was, perhaps, a bit too flowery with my words and will be sure to be more clear with statements next time. She embodies death, it is a part of her...woven into her, but I know she is not death itself.
This video was pretty nice! What I would like to note is how The Contrarian seems to gain a sense of remorse during The Stranger ending. At first he was being his usual self. But when the princess started to distort, he started to grow confused and irritated. And by the end of the whole ordeal, he started to feel remorseful, realizing that his (or our) actions had consequences and even said that we should probably help her. I thought that part was really neat.
You are so right! It was such a powerful moment for the Contrarian. Showed greater depth to him
@@pixelpondering Something you missed in the video.
*Spoiler for secret regarding him*
But the princess is based off the first princess you meet. the first.. meaning if you don't go to the cabin at the start you first meet her in chapter 2. This actually causes the Voice of the Contrarion to be around in the end. You get to see a shift in his personality after having gained understanding of the consequences of actions.
@@phantom-ri2tg You are so right. I definitely noticed the shift in his personality after seeing the consequences of his actions, but that's a good point that since you don't meet her at all until Chapter 2, that causes the Contrarian. As I think about it now, it makes sense for him to show up because the protagonist has direct no point of reference for who she is like he does when he meets her in chapter 1. She's all of her versions and none of her versions at the same time because, having never met her, she's still essentially an unknown. And after reading your comment I went back to refresh my memory of my footage and I realized something I didn't before. There is a shift in his personality because, just like the princess is all versions of her at once, the voice of the Contrarian is also a combination of all of the other voices. When the protagonist is going down the stairs, he is essentially pulled apart and put back together with all of the feelings and emotions that we see all of the other voices have. That web of emotional tangles is all of the voices converging, likely because in chapter 1, since all of the cabins kept appearing, there were versions of the protagonist that interacted with the princess even though the one we are playing as does not have direct knowledge of it. And when the protagonist reaches the bottom of the stairs he says he feels different yet the same, and that is because he is still him but also is now layered with the other memories and voices that did get to meet her. So the princess fracturing is in response to all of the different ways that the protagonist is thinking/feeling about her at once. That whole storyline makes SO much more sense now. Thank you for sharing that! It helped me see things more clearly.
@@pixelpondering Oh we have a frame of reference from her. I recommend checking out that variant of the ending if you haven't.
@@phantom-ri2tg I played through that scenario at least 3 times but it's been a while and my memory is fuzzy on the details. I'll have to go back and review those recordings to hear the variations in the dialogue. I don't recall having a frame a reference since we didn't see her in chapter 1. However, if the game in some way pulled from knowledge from prior loops (or simply the ability of the princess and protagonist to "break the construct" so to speak) I can definitely see that happening. I'll have to go back through it with this knew information and make sense of it.
The Princess, and by extension the Shifting Mound, is Change. Transformation. The right questions to the Narrator reveal as much, and that THAT is why he can't tell you anything. With a "Mortal" perspective before becoming The Long Quiet, your perspective shapes who and what she is. "She can do it, if only you believe her to be able to."
It's why she has Death within her. Death is a transformation.
The only thing about her that isn't transforming is her opinions, so righteously sure of her Divine Right... Until you reach her Heart. The truth at the very center of her being. She can't run from what she is, but she knows that's not her as much as you do.
It's why I personally believe "Strange Beginnings" combined with "And? What happens next?" is the best ending. You leave with her as she is truly, not confining her to a singular being, but at the same time, with the understanding and perspective of a mortal. Death is returned not as a certainty, but as a choice.
Love this!
I loved watching this - one contrary point though, I don't think the Burned Grey hated you at all. She explicitly states that she wants to burn down the cabin because she (correctly, imo) identifies this location and construct as the thing keeping you two apart even though you're in love. At some point she says (not exact words just me remembering) "It's this place that keeps us killing each other". She burns both alive in what I consider a yandere attempt at fusing together wholly, and the Smitten seems to agree with her.
That's a really excellent point. I think you're completely right that it was more about the feelings towards the cabin/circumstances than the protagonist at that point.
It's nice to see you dive at length into each piece of the psycho-narrative, each voice its own variation on seeing. Reminds me of Disco Elysium, which also captures distinct voices with distinct outlooks competing over what's real.
Facts in themselves do not lend their own interpretations. We are perceivers, deciphering, molding for both memory and communication and thus limiting to an extent what's there, and then bickering with others over the differences of our perspectives. This game seems to hone in on that bickering quality of different selves, using storytelling choices from the player as a means of showing how there's always storytelling in life, in perception of life.
It's so nice that you're diving so deep. This is a game I was not aware of and would not have played. Yet it seems done with care. And so is your analysis of it (done with care). By the end of this vid I wished it went on far longer. Felt like I was playing the game vicariously through your eyes. Really phenomenal job!
This game could easily be played as just a cool little horror visual novel, but it was such an intriguing story... much deeper than you'd expect going into this. I thought it was an interesting premise and didn't even know about the inner voices until I got into it and I think their inclusion elevated what could have been simply branching paths of dialogue into a myriad of unique experiences. A single play through can take about 3 hours, but I think I played about 27 hours or so because I just kept finding new narrative threads to follow! All of the voices had such an interesting perspective on the situation, and I absolutely appreciated how much time and effort the developers put into the interconnectedness of the protagonist, the princess, and the construct.
It's interesting that you mentioned wishing this was longer because I scrapped a lot of the script. I wrote maybe 3 versions, but it kept feeling disjointed since I just had so many things to say! Ultimately, I leaned into my therapy background to shape the script and left a lot on the cutting room floor, but it's good to know that extending the analysis would have been well received. I'll keep that in mind for future videos.
Also, I recently aquired Disco Elysium but haven't played it yet. It sounds like this is one to play sooner than later.
@@pixelpondering You are lucky to have your first playthrough of Disco Elysium ahead of you: it is as near to literary excellence as I've experienced in a game. We truly may never get another game like it again. When you play it, allow yourself as long a length of uninterrupted time as you can. Sink in for a while.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern good advice and I'm looking forward to it. I'm excited!
Really nice break down video. I chuckled at your "manifesting your destiny" comment. I have a few friends who have used that term "manifesting" things in their lives recently😆
See! "Manifesting your destiny" is still all the rage! 😄
@@pixelpondering 🤣
I think you missed parts of the contrarian he expresses a lot of control if you do his path first
Good point. I'm not sure if I ever did his path first and that may have changed how he expressed things.
really wish there was a warning for the spoiler at the very beginning. doesn't take the enjoyment out of the story i suppose, but it was really abrupt. i'll be looking forward to coming back here after im fully done with the game
I apologize for that. I usually do but it slipped through the cracks this time. I will be sure to include a clear spoiler warning next time. I appreciate that feedback.
One of my favourite things to do in this game is to build my own narrative with its routes with an idea of a route yet see how it goes.
(Aswel as an idea of how I want the protagonist to be. Like being a neutral anti-hero of sorts and so on.)
Oh! That's really clever...I like the idea of having an end goal in mind of the motivations of the protagonist and responding accordingly.
@@pixelpondering
Haha yeah!
I love storytelling and roleplaying (as long it isnt cringe/weird) and I often have fun doing that in Slay The Princess, and during those routes I tend to imagine visions of what the protagonist may be feeling haha.
Like skeptical to hold the blade yet willing to do the job aswel as confused/frustrated at what he has to do sort of thing for the first route haha.
I think I might have to take some time and try roleplaying like this! Especially as the routes start to loop and they remember more and more, it will be interesting to see how the story progresses and how both the princess and the protagonist ends up in the end!
@@pixelpondering
Its a fun _prespective_ with future playthroughs as I often imagine that the protagonist might be feeling/thinking.
Coming back to that narrative I mentioned, I imagine that he would be skeptical to hold the blade yet willing to do the job without hesitation, yet it feels wrong.
SO when The Spectre route rolled in, he tried to make up for his actions as he hates what he did. (I really wanted to talk about that little arc haha!)
Kinda like that haha!
I think with all those routes, the ending would probably end up being where you and the princess would escape the cabin.
Its a lot of fun personally! So I think you might have fun with it aswel haha! :D
Ah! So since he skeptical but did it anyway, he experienced guilt since he had to face the consequences of his decision with The Spectre. I imagine, perhaps, then would he allow her to possess him as a way of making amends? That's an interesting arc and now it has me really thinking through so many narrative threads the game could follow. I really love this idea!
I appreciate this essay. Gives me things to process.
Damn, i loved the Stubborn, and i say HE LOVED the princess for F sure.
Not only that, i will say that his love was as big as the Smitten. It's a voice that called so much to me i got angry at the game lol
I agree that the Stubborn was connected to her like none other!
Oh... so you can get other voice combo in Fury. I always thought it was only Broken and Stubborn but you can get Contrarian instead. I knew that other chapters 3 has diffrent voices combos but not this one.
I knew there had to be at least one other combination for Fury, but I didn't figure out how to trigger the Broken/Stubborn combination. There were a few of the chapters that had different combinations of voices. For instance the Wild and the Wraith also had different voice combinations that played out with the same scenario.
@@pixelpondering I got it by either killing Tower and getting Fury that way. Or instead of running away from Adversary when she breaks chain starting to ask voices “what are we doing” and getting killed. This way we get Stubborn/Broken and their dialogues completely different depending on who was here first. I loved hearing Broken crying because Tower is dead while Stubborn being “we killed a God yo let’s go”😂 Also Eye of the needle can have either Skeptic (If you tried to free adversary) or Hunted (if you tried to outmaneuver her in a fight so to speak) and Den chapter has two variations depending if you ended it on defensive or on offensive.
Okay, so hooooooooow did you actually kill the Tower? I tried to do that multiple times but she or the Broken just kept taking control. I need to run through that scenario again and really be careful with the options. I'd love to hear that dialogue between Broken and Stubborn on that. I freed the Eye of the Needle and I outran her, but I didn't get a chance to fight her. That's another one I need to go back and do as well. I was trying to get all of the achievements but 97 is a LOT. I have 83 of them and I think killing the Tower and fighting the Adversary are two of them.
@@pixelpondering take the knife. Refuse to drop it. Refuse to kneel. Don’t talk to her at all and just pick refusing option. That works for me. Also I never told her she supposed to end the world in first chapter so maybe it’s also important variable to unlock this.
@@pixelpondering Big imho ahead. If you get Fury through Tower the chapter makes more sense because when Tower and you die her having bleeding chest and you hurting yourself while coming to her create this viscera imagery in your head that prevails in this chapter much better. It’s the same like with Wild and Wraith where meeting them after Witch and Spectre feels more natural then through Beast and Nightmare.
I love your vids n top level analysis :)
Great vid, subscribed :D
The princess isn't death but the idea of change while we are the concept of X. Whatever needs to change be it life to death or the day changing into night. Without the princess there literally nothing. No end or beginning while she's without an anchor. She knows that something is wrong
Voice of the cold is too familiar.
Do you mean to you personally or something more generally available? By that second option I meant the Crestfallen Undead sitting at the Firelink Shrine.
@@MarkizenBlast personally
Astute observations. I wonder what you would make of Detroit: Become Human, a game with a very similar ethos.
A friend of mine suggested Detroit Becomes Human as well. I definitely need to play that one, it sounds incredibly interesting.
Did you also make an analysis of the Shifting Mound?
No, I did not. But that would be an interesting perspective
E