Will an extra piston ring raise the compression?
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2022
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In this video we try something practical.
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Now combine this with the alternator driven supercharger, diesel pump injection and some E85.
Yes do this!
Yessssss
Now its need to fit that diesel high pressure pump and put on dyno 💪
That
yep, then Dyno it
I wish you guys had a dyno for this experiment it would be nice to see the hp gains on paper !!
It had 115 psi then it went to 135 psi. It would of only picked up a few hp at most
@@k3bigwink1escambourn5 agreed.
But 5 extra horses in a 60 horse engine is a big gain.... especially with only 18 rubles worth of parts.
Extra compression making more horsepower versus extra friction taking it away. I wonder which would win?
Contact area dosen't change friction in physics laws, but it's extra "spring" too. But oil should handle that. You could meter this, how much it takes when starting it without spark plugs, before extra parts and after it. Then you know how much those make more friction when power is metered in watts. If plugs are in place, then there is pressure adding force activity making change too, so that isn't right way..
This is indeed very very interesting topic so many way. In rally and usage cars.. and testing..
I'm thinking this gives more newton's than hp's prosentually, but I'm not sure. This could drop fast when revs go up few thousand and over, that's normal too.
Thanks for the testing.
one thing I really like about Vlad's approach is he doesn't try to over-analyze/theorize things. He basically says "OK, this is what we are shooting for. so, let's just put the pieces together and see if it works"
very hands-on way of inventing. see what works and what doesn't. then change things around accordingly.
yeah and hes thorough enough to go over all the variables, like a great scientist
You guys should put the high pressure diesel pump on the three compression rings engine and see what happens. That would be awesome !
Do that!
Lada race setup?
Same I was wondering...
It won't work on that compression, Diesels need 20:1 compression.
Plus you would destroy everything else in that engine.
Gas engines are not made to withstand Diesel pressures.
@@VeggiePower303 watch their last video, they run it with two stroke mix
I watched your video for adding a extra piston ring for each piston .
It is actually a very good idea for making a engine last much longer and having better compression.
There used to be a company called
Wisconsin Engines.. that made and sold industrial engines to places all over the world, and a lot of the engines that they built were made with the extra compression ring.
Those engines were very well built and lasted a very long time.
You need to dyno some of your experiments and also do testing such as mpg. See if it increases or decreases.
I like it better how it is. Keep it moving. It either sorta works or works or doesn't.
Dyno is too much. Plus those ladas will probably break it
Russia is a civilized country, they use liters/100km lol
Dyno is useless excect for measuring large gains and if can't feel them without the dyno saying different then it wasn't worth it anyway 🤷♂️
This channel is just translation and I doubt the actual channel even comes here.
This channel always makes me want a Lada
I have never thought of this and i think it's amazing that you guys get so much experience and actual usable results.
hey guys lets try experimenting with a lawn mower motor🤣
In the antique engines I've had a pleasure to restore I've always noticed older engines with three and sometimes four rings one on the bottom and three on the top made the Piston to where it didn't move around or slap.
There is a downside to this, like faster cylinder wear. I remember people taking out 1 compression ring from some Perkins engines.
The downside is decreased efficiency and increased drag. And also increased cylinder wear. The cross-hatching would wear away much faster
They got higher compression merely because they machined piston ring in free space above default ones. This decreased volume in cylinder.
Lada has low compression ratio because it is designed to run on crap russian fuel - 73 to 78 octane .
Modern, high efficient engines have compression ratios like 13:1 and at the same time piston rings are made thinner - to reduce drag on high rpm region.
It would be interesting now to take the middle or bottom ring away and repeat the compression test. Also nothing about what gasoline they did use.
Given it is carburator engine, and modern fuel, even in Russia, got better recently, increasing compression is just making old lada motor one step closer to modern engines.
Im almost certain these guys have a warehouse of lada gaskets, they use them in every single video
A warehouse full of Lada cars..😄
@@raybin6873 garbage of full lada cars. That car in condition like on video in Russia costs about 400-600 dollars
Bravo team. Well thought out and 10/10 for Vlad’s presentation methods.
Always a pleasure to view this channel.
Dyno before and after would be brilliant 😇😇😇
I love how you answer questions that I never had.
Amazing content. Keep up the good work...
Nice. Now I would like to see 2 rings in 1 groove with the gaps 180 degrees apart
Yes please
I always thought that the ring gaps would migrate. I guess I thought wrong.
They'll end up with the gaps in the same place
Oiling to that top ring may be an issue. Interesting idea tho.
you can always put a small pin in the gap to keep the rings from rotating.
Some old engines came with three compression rings, and some industrial/stationary engines still do. I don't think it would be a wear problem - IF - RPM was kept low.
Also tall deck big block chevy's. May be some info there being as they were mass produced. To add to their strangeness, those engines only used centrifugal (engine speed) advance too; no vacuum advance.
no matter how old these videos get, i continue to watch them over and over again. I find much comfort in these videos, and i even have some saved for the end of the world. Definitely great experiments to have knowledge of for when we must go back to the older styles in the future
If I remember correctly, Dodge had a problem with their 2006ish era Hemi's they were breaking pistons because the upper ring land was too close to the top. Love these videos and they are always very fun to see👍
Some of the boosted Subaru engines are notorious for this as well.
Now make domed billet pistons (or mill the head) to see how much more compression can be had. Lada NA with twin carburetor! Max torque!
Not twin carburetor dual fuel injection (dfi) one injector will spray fuel in the intake valve and the other one will inject fuel direco at high pressure then see the results. The result will be mind blowing
@@ayannasir6653 They already have diesel pump injection on a Lada
Direct injection is unreliable for gas engines and a twin or triple or quad carb follows old school hot rodding
@@ruikazane5123 oh i think that this is a gasoline engine but this is diesel engine
@@ayannasir6653 Gasoline engine with diesel injection (not direct but on intake ports)
You would be having a hard time trying to convert a regular carb or EFI engine into GDI with not much gains to have
I love this channel. 😀
Could sleeve the cylinders so it's easy to repair when it gets worn out.
All that work for the extra piston ring!!! ...I have a ton of respect for you guys....thank you for the video and the gentleman is right....there might be more cylinder wear....but it is worth it to try...
again thank you..!!!
Do some mpg modification testing. Lawn mower carb, skinny tires, whatever.
Check out Thunderhead289. He has a mower carb on a muscle car
@@lamarzimmermanmennonitefar5269 I was excited to see that video. But, his methods of measuring mpg are sloppy at best. I have spent a lot of time and effort to get 31 mpg out of just 2000cc and 2k lbs, I don't believe his results at all.
1.5g is gone in less than 45 min runtime in my 420cc carbureted snow thrower using the smallest main jet for my altitude, I don't see how the same type and size carburetor would magically become hyper efficient when mated to 4000cc of v8.
If he wanted to be honest, he would have fitted a temporary fuel container on the hood for all to see, using a single line returnless system. But he won't do that.
An interesting result!
I find myself wondering, though, whether the compression comes from the third ring being extra, or from it being new.
What would the expected compression be with the standard two rings per cylinder, if all the rings were brand new?
imo I think a good portion of the compression increase is because the 3rd ring is above the original 2 thus reducing the clearance volume of the cylinder
Likely because it's new and cylinder wall are not worn at the top of the sleeves
Number of ring really does not matter most high performance dirt bike engine use only 1 compression ring for less friction and more power really important for a one cylinder 250cc or 450cc
@@buttadog5073 likely probable
@@buttadog5073 I'd thought of that too, but it seems like the volume in question (distance above the second ring times the annular area between piston and cylinder) would be small compared to the volume between piston and head at TDC, at least for a relatively low compression engine such as this one. Just spitballin'; I don't know much about the geometry of a Lada engine....
@@ericwilner1403 Some of that, plus maybe some reduction in blowby.
Medium duty & Heavy duty
GM 366 & 427 V8 gas has 4 rings.
1950’s-1970’s GMC
Big Block 478 V6 gas or diesel
has 4 rings.
Big block V6?
I was about to post this lol
@@applepoop10 yes V6. Gmc also made a 637 cui V8 and a 702 V12
By putting a ring on the top, you basically decreased the volume in the cylinder, that's why you have higher compression. If you want to see the effect only for the ring, this should be put somewhere below the original ones. This experiment is somehow equivalent with rectifying the cylinder head or mounting a thinner cylinder gasket.
Agreed, I was going to mention that same thing! Also if the added ring is brand new it will skew the results since the old two rings are presumably worn to a degree.
Exactly right.
Third One to type that i was just about type in desame message.
Interesting thing in regards to piston rings. If you know you're going to abuse the crap out of a motor, like in a demolition derby, you file the rings open a bit so when it starts to overheat and the rings expand, the piston don't seize.
Maybe even put some 2 cycle oil in the gas to help with lubricating that top ring.
Good idea 💡👍
A lot of work to get an extra few minutes from a car your destroying🤔🤷. Why would you fully tear down an engine prior to entering a derby???. Ya can run it on 2 stroke and delete the radiator altogether so it just circulates thru the pipe and run the interior heater on full blast. One smack in the front and all your waters gone with a radiator in there.
@@brotang2953 do they even allow radiators in demo derbys?
My friends have been running dozens of derbies a year for decades, like 4 generations. They drive all over the country to get cars. They typically use the same built up 4 bolt main 4 barrel small block chev for years. Once they go through the engine, it can handle an entire event with no coolant and then do it again next weekend. They also know where to reinforce and where to cut to get the car to fold the way they want. It's actually quite involved, way more involved than I realized
Wow who would have thought 💭🤔! Great job guys, thank you for your GREAT CONTENT!!
It would be cool to not just add a 3rd compression ring to a set of high compression pistons and do a compression test, but then shave the head to add even more compression and see what those small single cam Lada engines can really do with some high compression.
Most standard way of increasing compression.. but this garage does nothing like anything standard..
@Karl with a K when you disassemble a engine with a “dizzy” and have to pull it from it’s original orientation you have to adjust the ignition timing by rotating the distributor. They also do some insane modifications to engines that they have to not only play with ignition timing they also need to adjust fuel too.
twin carb twin carb
@Karl with a K you forgot to mention the giant hole in the floor where they put their legs thru, peddle power.
More holes in the floor with four people equals more power.
@@South_0f_Heaven_ Jabbadabadooo!
The extra ring being placed at the top of the piston reduces the distance of the (former) top ring, now new top ring, to the cylinder head. This may attribute to increase in compression. You could test for this by making the new top ring grove the same as the former top ring grove, and then using the old rings move the former top ring up to the new top grove, leaving the remaining rings in old positions. Good test, you guys are great.
Great experiment and video guys, thanks for sharing.
Hello! I'm Brazilian and a mechanic, a few years ago I did the same experiment of putting a second compression ring on my 100 cc motorcycle. It worked almost 95% well, but because the piston was loose in the cylinder!
Your experience with this engine was better, congratulations!
great project Sergey! this was awesome!
Garage 54 is the Most underrated CZcams channel ever
The suggestions on this channel are amazing.
lmao when I saw this one😂😂 I love how Vlad and the team actually make it happen. Salute✊
This is my all time favourite channel and just an awesome group of guys. would love to meet one day.
appreciate what you guys do👍
All the way from South Africa
Same here bro, From SA
Top Gear was the only show that compares. Good work Vlad!!
@@Trevor24 Fede✊
FANTASTIC!!! GREAT JOB GUYS!
Build two stroke lada engine.
That's a trabant
@@gytax01 no, from four stroke to two stroke water cooled engine.
@@blazodelic359 yeah, it was a joke.
you guys should really have a dyno by now !
Good job guys! Very good work and interesting video as always! Cheers from Jackson Mississippi, USA 🇺🇸
Holly cow what a unit! This is so good
👋😂👍I’m convinced!! Lada’s are indestructible!! That was awesome!
The translator "SwapBlogRU" has the perfect voice for his job 😂
Just what I thought of when I was younger. Excellent!
Great episode. This was a really interesting idea.
Great video guys. Keep this up.
When I was rebuilding John deere diesels they moved the top ring to just about 1/8" from the top compared to 1/2". They claimed higher HP and better starting, they were right! It eliminated the volume of air above the ring, thus increasing compression but also eliminated a large area of cold metal that the air could touch. Starting in about half the time.
Great idea, in an old engine the rings would be worn anyway so I wouldn't worry that much about extra wear. This would help an engine last a really long time before a rebuild. I wonder if this would help with people who have vintage cars and worn cylinders since boring can be so expensive.
This together with skimming the head by like 1.5 mm, change gasket for a metal one that handles higher compression could be interesting too see together with maybe a fuel injection system added in with a higher pressure fuel pump & a more aggressive cam.
Kind of test the limits of the stock cylinders, crank etc a bit further.
I love you guys because you are FEARLESS when it comes to redesigning or trying new things.. :)
Oh Yes!! I saw a lada in South Africa. Johannesburg to be exact. I smiled so much and instantly thought of the Garage 54 team💪
legends...and one tough car I'll tell u that. Russian Engineering 👌
Do another but with two rings in a wider top groove.
Loved the experiment.
Great experiment
Hey there how you doing I hope everything's well on everybody doing okay I had to get my garage 54 fix now I'm going to be doing real good I get to watch another awesome 107% videos success you make stuff happen you're awesome thank you again you and your team
Before and after on a dyno would be great. Thanks for the video
I've been following your channel for a while all respect 😉. In my opinion you can make Lada go fast , but the general issue is when you gain speed ..... Bolt joints! As we all know that's weak place , crack me on I've seen someone going 160 and after they walk out of the vehicle the result was having a sweat and full trousers . lots of love and admiration for your hard work ! Btw the lada was fitted with fiat gear box ....
great test!!
Many newer cars put the rings closer to the top the way you did. It is better for pollution, but you also increased compression.
you add two more rings and magically your engine has 50 times more torque and explodes yay
There was a noticeable change. Good one!
This was a good one... I want to see you try this with different cars.
This was very interesting. I can see two things that could be interesting to test and that is to just swap out one piston ring to see what that does for compression. Then try enlarging the groove for the first piston ring and add a second ring in that. I've seen that arrangement on an engine, I think it was a motorcycle engine but can't be sure. That would minimize the problem with weakening the piston, or at least I think it would...
Question is if it would be as effective and if there would be some other side effect such as a shorter life span for the piston rings.
Finally it might be enlightening to replace the old piston rings on the piston version that works best and hone the cylinders so they can wear in properly and see if that improves the compression even more or if it's as good as it gets.
Heck even just swapping in two new piston rings and hone the cylinder may give interesting results as it would show the best possible compression with the standard two piston rings.
And now I've read through this and realize just how much work all of this would take. Perhaps just replacing the two original piston rings and honing the cylinders just to see if there is still something to gain there. Not ever having worked on one of these engines I have no idea what the standard compression is supposed to be. If it's close to the original values then swapping the rings and honing the cylinder is not likely to improve things much, right?
Edit: Oh and a lot of people ask for dyno testing. If that's not easily done then perhaps just some acceleration tests before and after might give some idea of if the effect changed. Given that this is a rather small engine and car even small changes in engine power should be easy to measure that way.
When you first mentioned another ring, I was worried that you had forgotten that the previous top ring had already created a step that the new ring might object to. Then you showed that you had recently rebored and honed it, so I quit worrying.
that thing rips good work 👍
Alot of british sports cars had three rings plus the oil control ring, that was 50 years ago, some new stuff comes and goes like those racing pistons that only use a special top ring and the three piece oil control ring, adding more rings is a band aide for piston rock plus more friction
So this time you guys actually made an inprovement on a Lada. Good work!
They did it when adding the diesel injection pump as well
as always great content,keep it up
Love your videos!
These guys are just fantastic. I love this channel. question: did they install new bearing surfaces on the crank side ? .. if so that might have been the reason for some of the increased compression PSI.
What a channel! These guys doing the things most men in the world think about on a daily basis
You have great engineering skills very interesting👍👍
this is definetly one I'm going to consider for my sx3 aerio
I really want to see a follow up to this video after some months of hard driving on it.... this is pretty cool.
So my question is will it last? Will the top ring get enough oil? Great test!
Garage54 should do a toolbox tour, I bet there's some really cool stuff in there!
Keep em coming. Always look forward to your vids and our boy BMI Russian
excellent idea!!!
Why do you guys work so HARD-another vrry good show
Awesome Idea, the only thing I would be worried about is if the engine ever gets overheated the compression may bend the top of the piston around that ring without the extra 5-10 mm of structure above it. Obviously it wasn’t a problem in normal operation though. I’m going to install an extra set of rings on my Prius right now! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻😂
Absolutely awesome!
Personally, I'm hoping for at least a 107% success rate! :)
Gotta have a 107% success rate!
This was a real win!
So great! How about welding up bigger lobes on a Lada Cam for more lift and duration if you haven't done that already? combine with high compression to equal a fun machine!
I doubt it, because it's just another of the same ring. That's my prediction, now to watch the video!
Seems I was wrong. Nice work on this one!
sniff,sniff, I miss my Lada , mostly miss that knob on the dash that allowed you to adjust the headlights , lots of deer around here , that extra night vision range saved more than one of them .
Well done Sergei.. 👌👍👍👏👏
I love this channel, I'd love to have these guys at my shop so they could play with some American big block motors in some muscle cars
the lada is the better engine with fiat roots
good test; good improvement
That ring at the bottom is an oil control ring, meant to control or minimize excessive oil consumption ( a type of reverse blow-by situation) and promote a cleaner burn.
Now You can mount a turbo and set it on a dyno🤩 just love the way how you works on cars
Very interesting video. Thanks
Solid!
Top KEK!
What a cool experiment
Great video, as always. So now I need a four ringed Lada. I am not sure if I can find one in Florida.
A Florida man in a Lada is such a Florida man thing to do ngl😂
Now please measure the horse power with this modification. I’m so curious to see the before and after.
You guys make me want a lada more and more. Not for daily use, but rather an end of the world vehicle
Nice! Maybe could be necessary an adjustment in timing spark and use gas with higher octane grade because the higher compression rate.
Hey there, love your vids! Can you maybe try to use the alternator for E-Boost as common with 48V mild-hybrid systems today?
NO!!
can you make a performance camshaft from a standard camshaft..is it possible?😮..awesome videos!
regrinding stock cams is pretty common. Lots of racers busted for cheating in stock engine classes for doing it
make a ridiculous degree cam😂😂push the valves to the limit and see what the outcome is👍...power Gains that is.
Yes, it's possible. Watch Le Dan channel from Indonesia, that guy is another gem when it comes to engine mods..
Also do watch "Restoration of Everything" channel, you'll be amused for sure
You can always regrind a stock camshaft core with a smaller base circle. It's limited how much you can grind but it's done often and is a cheaper option
You can do the same thing by drilling holes threw top of piston into the back side of top ringland the compression pushes the ring out for a better deal to cyclinder
I would love to see them weld up that dish on the piston then do a before and after dyno test!
Cheers for this video Vlad will have to try this out on a V8
You are smart guys. The reality is that increased compression helps, but, you also need to take into account the extra friction. If you can overcome the extra friction then extra compression does help.
I didn't even know this was a thing! That's crazy!