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Model Railways / Railroads - Slow Running With DC - Who Needs DCC?!
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- čas přidán 18. 08. 2024
- Model Railways / Railroads - Slow Running With DC - Who Needs DCC?!
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I have run an H&M duette and ebay pwm control boards for 3 years. Slow running with both was good. The only slight issue was stiction, resulting in a slight lurch at start, particularly noticeable on my Bachmann 54xx / 64xx pannier tank.
A friend loaned me a Gaugemaster D... slow speed crawl and start were a revelation. They are pricier (eBay average is approx £60) but the precise control means they are much nicer than the previous controllers; some models also come with inertia settings. I am now the proud owner of Gaugemaster controllers for 4 of my 7 circuits(Up, Down, fiddle yard and branch line). I still have Pwm controllers for engine shed, goods yard and goods shed.
As an alternative, the Hornby HM6000 blue tooth controllers also work very well, using a phone or tablet to control upto 2 circuits (£30) although I still prefer the physical speed knob.😂
Keeping wheels clean? I use cotton buds and contact cleaner, eith a 9V battery to turn the wheels to allow all round cleaning.
Track cleaning? I am experimenting with a Gaugemaster electronic track cleaner.
Inspiring, as always. Definitely DC for me all the way.
You really have got me wishing I hadn't sold all my oo 30 plus diesels all boxed never got round to building a layout, Keep up the good work I may have to start again not sure what the missus would say.
the main advantage of DCC is being able to have a large layout without lots of controllers/isolating grids.
There are no RC model railways commercially available in the UK, which is a shame because it would be much better
@@BudgetModelRailways it won’t be long!
My experience is DCC also results in slower running, especially if you use Zimo decoders and stay alive capicators.
Your comments are absolutely spot on about DC and as a fellow hobbyist and Electronics professional I would like to add a little technical info.
You don’t need a dedicated train controller, you can use what is called a PWM controller used for any small DC motor and by small I mean non industrial. PWM stands for Pulse Width Modulation and it very different in operation from old style transformers.
Ole transformers adjust speed by changing voltage and DC motors perform badly at low voltage. PWM runs at full voltage, it varies speed by chopping up signal into a series of pulses, 0v to full to 0v to full etc. this happens at a high frequency. This way your loco always sees full voltage and therefore operates at full torque even at minimum speed. You can also used dimmable power supply for LED lighting. They are quite cheap from places like Ali express or Banggood. Many others to choose from. This technology is the same as used in RC cars, boats and planes ( brushed type motors of course ). If you are really adventurous you can look into Arduino to control your trains through PWM.
Thanks for the info, I will look into PWM sounds interesting
IMPORTANT !!! If you want to use several PWM controllers on the same layout, each must have its own separate power supply. Short circuits will result if you attempt to operate two or more controllers from the same power supply. Similarly the controller power supply cannot normally also be used for other equipment such as track circuits, train detectors or signal drivers.
ALSO ! It is essential with this controller, as with any controller, to provide some form of overload protection. Its purpose is to protect both the train motor and the controller output device if a short-circuit occurs on the track or if the train encounters some obstacle while running at high speed. Some power supplies are fitted with a thermal device, which is perfectly adequate: in the event of an overload, a button pops up and the power supply output is disconnected. When the cause of the overload has been removed, you press the button and can resume your operating session.
Just a question, I can see PWM controllers on eBay but I guess I would still need to source a 12v transformer to get the power from the mains?
Budget Model Railways, DC power supplies are plentiful. I find the easiest ones to buy are called LED drivers, they come in many sizes and are quite cheap for small sizes. The only thing is you may have to connect to AC power for small units. This is easier than you think and mainly requires a little care and attention to detail for safety. I am happy to answer any and all question on this topic. Who knows, if you get yourself an inexpensive small soldering iron and a little practice, you may add a new skill set and open up all sorts of possibilities including diy LED lighting very cheap.
Ray Wilson, DC power supplies are quite inexpensive especially small ones. I like LED drivers, plug packs are also good. I find that it is easy to accumulate old plug packs and you can repurpose old 12v and 15v plugpacks effectively for free. Ratings are listed on the packs, voltage and current rating. If you wanted to run many power sources you can use a single AC bus and connect all your power supplies to it, just requires a little care
Really glad you made this video, BEST information you could give for anyone starting in the hobby. Clean wheels, clean track plus a good controller. Worth every penny. I use an Atlas American wheel cleaning brush, a Fleischman track rubber and a Gaugemaster Combi and have smooth slow running with a variety of different brands including Hornby, Bachman, Dapol and Heljan.
Great video. I am a DC guy and have a fairly big layout with 3 eparate loops each uing a good second hand controller... who needs to run more than 1 loco at a time on the same loop? DC rules!!
I agree, I have just re done my loft layout, two loops and a double controller. Ten minutes with four wires and it's up and running
I’ve started using hmdc app controller and have found its more or less handy for walk about like you would with DCC or those walk about DC controllers
But I have found that I’ve had about 4 locos of 2nd hand ones have struggled to even get going tho they are nice little locos just a pain to get them going , yeah newer locos I’ve come across have proved to be smooth runners no problem
Completely agreed. I use the Gaugemaster Model D. Clean tracks & locos with some lube oil. That's all smooth & fun.
Although I'm on a budget, I plan to use DCC on my model railway. This is mostly because I've got an entire shed I am building in, meaning there's going to be several lines to operate and I don't want to do what I used to have in the garage and need 4 controllers for each line.
I not sure why you would need that many controllers if you use insulfrog points? DCC does add considerably to the cost
With a little running in that loco will run even smoother.
I do think the advancement in motor technology has a big part to play in smooth running, regardless of DC or DCC. Keith
I think you are right
I agree completely.
Too many people expect perfect running from dirty track and loco wheels.
I was in Hattons a few months ago and overheard the guys in there telling a customer who said oh DCC is better for slow running that it is not strictly true and many DC locos can do it just as well.
Your fab video once again proves that, I have a 2nd hand Gaugemaster combi which is fantastic for my 00 and for my N gauge, I have the new hornby one, whilst its not good enough for what I need for my older locos which might need a controller with more oomph, it will be fine for controlling something simple, or even lighting on a larger layout.
I hope your having a good summer holidays.
Cant wait for the next video guys, thanks again.
Good to hear at least one retailer is being open minded
Thats hardly true of Hatton of all people, they were just passing on some fair minded advice
Have a run of an old 3 rail dublo with a decent controller, they run hell of a lot slower than this. Although as you rightly pointed out is there really much point?
I run DC, DCC, and AC, 2 rail and 3 rail and they all have their own virtues and vices. Fortunately I'm not really out to prove anything to anyone.
One thing to keep in mind is that sort of 80s & 90s vintage hornby 040s had a scalextric motor fit which had two basic speed fast and REALLY FAST. They sorted this in the end when production went to China and a different motor was fitted. Something to look out for.
Most of the 90s ones I have , have the same motor as the newer ones, all be it with better gearing. The issue with the older ones is as much people using the awful cheap Hornby controller which does not do slow speed running. With a modern PWM controller even the older ones will fun at a sensible speed
@@BudgetModelRailways thats really good to know 😊👍🏻
Hi Mike & Douglas, nice video I am like you don't do DCC costs to much the dearest thing I have is my double track gaugemaster controller, so thanks for showing everybody you don't need DCC to do slow running. Regards George..
People seem to ignore the cost when they talk about the advantages of DCC, and some of the advantages are not all they seem
Great advice.....keep it simple....
Lots of older controllers give yoy a choice of half or full wave rectification. I have an old Hornby pannier which will take an hour to travel one foot on half wave.
I'm returning to the hobby and have been looking at DCC. However, after watching this why would I bother? Thanks for dispelling some myths and saving me a few quid!!
I am building a layout with 009 and 00. I have two 009 tracks controlled by a DC Gaugemaster and it is fab. However, until another Gaugemaster arrives, I am using the cheap Hornby DC controller and both my 00 locos slow run perfectly. One is pulling coaches and the other wagons. Both locos are new however and so is the Peco track. The two 009s run very smoothly and slowly too; one of which is your kit with the pocket rocket Kato engine. I may upgrade to DCC for sound and timetable running at a later date but only when they drop in price. I don’t think they are worth it at the moment.
Jeez I had an old Airfix Class 31 that I'd fettled and tinkered with, rewheeled, etc and I could get it running so slowly on my old club layout that some people barely realised it was moving, I kid you not and I'm no miniature engineer. I'm sorry I eventually sold it tbh.
The DC controller that comes with the sets is great for running the Hornby turntable, so don't throw them away use for all accessories
The Hornby trainset controllers are perfect for running accessory lights, but I agree, you need a decent controller to use dc for slow running
DC on insulfrog points !!! Just goes to show that they can work at a snails pace. I have some 0-4-0s that work well and some, not so good but hey, we are where we are!! Loving the progress you're making.
They are a bit hit and miss but the newer ones are excellent especially the Bagnall Diesel Shunters
I run dc with the system 90 controllers which do slow running just fine
I agree that dc is just as good
Great video
I have this little cheap dark green GWR and its probably one of the quietest, smoothest little OO gauge trains i've ever seen.
We have several of the different Hornby 0-4-0 locos and find some if them excellent. There is another video on them due out in a couple of weeks, just filming it now
Who needs DCC? For those who use lots of sound and lighting effects it is essential. Also, in US profile we often need to use multiple unit diesel lashups, and DCC is invaluable for this. For small to medium silent layouts, there is little use at all for DCC and DC is entirely adequate. As you aptly demonstrated, a quality DC controller will yield great slow speed results. I have both :)
You are right, if you want lots of extra features then DCC is great. But DC has its uses and is a lot cheaper, there is an arguement for both, I just wanted to dispel some of the myths. Thanks for watching
Well done for championing low-cost. It's the way to get youngsters in ! I use a lot of second-hand stuff (some 20+ years old) and tweak it to get it to run nicely. Incidentally, I use a standard Hornby controller (nothing special) which seems to give quite good slow running. Am now experimenting with an old sound unit of similar vintage....that's the fun bit !
Thanks for your support and good luck with your projects
Just a tip ,if using a shuttle system on your layout , use an old phone charger to power it , I use a 3.7volt charger to run an Andy
Quiot auto station start stop shuttle pcb...
Great idea
I run DCC just because it’s convenient, one controller but any train can go anywhere on the layout and everything can be individually control every loco.
Any train can go anywhere on a DC layout?!
@@BudgetModelRailways That is correct, However I was lead to believe that with larger more complex layouts wiring all the track up so that trains can run in sidings and on branch lines can be difficult.
@@bjoe385 not really it's an old myth. With modern insulfrog points they pretty much do it for you. I had a loft layout with two passing loops and numerous sidings all powered by just two wires. In many ways DCC with it's droppers on every bit of track is far more complex. Then if course there is the cost with DCC adding £50-150 to the loco
very good review ! - nice loco - I have DCC on my main line because I want sound - but for 4 other lines I have DC with (H&M are great - I also much prefer centre off - cant be arsed with diection switches) - keep up the good work
I had a little 0-4-0 that run even slower than your example on D.C. yet all the railway mags tell us they are useless for shunting because they run too fast but that is not so!
It's like so much with model railways, people don't move on. The older ones are poorly geared and run fast, the newer ones are great at all speeds, but people just repeat parrot fashion what they were told years ago and it sticks. The Bagnall shunter will crawl along so slowly it looks like it's not moving.
Great video mate. I believe the Hornby reference number for this pack is R2670 as I did own this pack myself a wee while ago. Its enough to get one started in the world of model trains on a budget. They are smooth models overall but they can also go like rockets as well. Great fun those model trains are and they are very robust too.
Recently I have been stock-piling wagons for my long freight train project as I now have 25 of them from the likes of Hornby, Lima, Bachmann and some Triang stuff that makes for a 25 unit train at present. I am in the process of re-wheeling some of them with metal wheels as they make life easier and do not collect the gunk from the track that builds up. As for wheel cleaning. I use isopropyl alcohol with a cotton bud to clean the wheels. Its stong stuff but it evapourates quickly and it removes all the gunk.
I prefer it instead of using lighter fluid to be honest and I have heard from those on the rail forums also use this to clean the track as well. I haven't tried it yet but I am going to :).
Keep up the great videos mate
All the best.
Thanks for the support, I will give that a go for cleaning wheels. I have a rake of 12 old hornby and Lima box wagons which needed roofs and painting but the 12 only cost me £8!
We have a video planned on the capabilities of these 0-4-0 locos
No problem mate. If you cannot source replacement roofs for those 12 box wagons. It might be possible to convert them into high walled iron ore or granite wagons by levelling off the rounded ends and if you wanted to really add the realistic look to them. There is a guy on the bay that sells graffiti decals that would fit in with most freight trains I have seen as some wagons have had a heavy dosage of tags applied to some of them.
You could always paint those yourself and make something unique. Those wagons with a lots of weathering applied would make a nice rake of neglected wagons and the older Lima and Hornby models are going really cheap nowadays as modellers are now seeking the more high end models that most of us on a low budget can only seldom buy.
I will be doing a similar thing with some of my wagons that have the decals rubbed off because I like to make and own something on my model railway that cannot be bought in the stores.
I did a video on how I repaired them just using plastic sheet, and then weathered them
That's great stuff mate. As an experienced model kit builder (I prefer Tamiya model kits), I could have done something similar but sadly my hands are not the steadiest in terms of getting a clean cut. Well done on making those wagons fit for use again.
As for the Isopropyl Alcohol. I am not sure if you can use it to clean traction tyres that are on the powered wheels of most Hornby and Lima models from the 1980's and 1990's. But I usually just buff those wheels hard with a dry cotton bud to remove the gunk from them instead and use the IP fluid to clean the metal wheels only for the best effect. I am the sort of person that would rather play it safe than risk destroying the traction tyres :).
All the best.
Thanks for this video, great information
I agree with you and i wont be spending a fortune anytime soon! In fact i have just purchased the same engine in blue and 3 four wheel carriages for £15.I will now have 3 of those 040 engines i love them,ive had them come off my layout and fall to the floor (ive since built a wall to stop that) ive had them whack into each other on a diamond crossing they keep going! Its true what you say about the controllers i have 3 which came from starters sets (the silver controllers) and they are not the best,ive read up about them and they are not all that good to be honest. Great video as always keep up tthe good work.
That was a bargain,mess the coaches. I have about a dozen 0-4-0 inc the diesel versions, as you say when you get a good one they are great.
Ive just realised something i was bidding on this little package! I thought it looked familar :)
I just think from the early days when I was a kid, dc was underrated and underutilised ready for the slightly more expensive dcc takeover which hits children more than adults.
I'm solidly sold on DCC, simply because I'm cool with spending the extra to add sound (but only as I can afford to upgrade it), and because I want the convenience to run automated controls (so my layout can be a passive enjoyment to watch when i'm not actively running it). I still buy older locos (that I can hand modify to install DCC), or new locos on sale. I picked up for $27 a pair of old Bachmann locos, an F9-A and a GP40. I need to replace a cracked axle gear, but those are not too expensive. I picked up a brand new Atlas GP40 last week for $60 (Atlas sells it on their site for $130). It is DCC ready, but doesn't come with DCC installed. I can make that DC GP40 crawl so slow, even pulling a train of a few cars, that I have to see if the ties are moving passed the steps! Yikes, can it crawl! That's on DC! I only decided I wanted to do DCC because I plan on using the Open DCC++ controls build using an $8 Arduino and a $20 motor shield, and free computer software!
I just hope and pray that someone figures out a way to do DCC with sound on a low cost open source board. If a Teensy 3.6 can be made for $30, I wonder if a similar device with motor drivers, an audio amp, and a DCC compatible power converter could be made for under $30-40. That would at least half the cost of DCC with sound (at least the cost of the models I prefer... I'd _prefer_ a low cost open source DIY option!).
Very well said , DCC could be a lot cheaper than it is in my view
Great video. I'm just starting out. Enjoy all the information
Good luck with it
I've ordered the Gadgemaster single track combi and going to use my old hornby train set on to run lights ect instead , what do people think of the Gadgemaster combi? I've heard it's great.
Its a great controller
Good controller, metal frog points with modifications to make them operate like hand built points (A.K.A DCC Friendly) Clean, well built/laid track, Good quality loco well built on desk or in factory - must be a good one not a Friday night "I wanna go home" bodge job. Serviced loco. As many pick ups as possible (or well made split chassis) and you should be good.
Some of my DC loco's run much much slower than that, even the N gauge ones.
However emphasis is on the word 'some' as a lot of RTR loconotives are a bag of nails due to poor quality control at the factories.
That said I am interested in giving DCC a go as I want to turn smoke and sound on and off at will, reduce wiring and use 'Stay Alive' capacitor decoder thingies. I have not yet figured a way to do it in DC although a few have managed.
Gauge Master Combi controller is my current favourite.
I agree that most Hornby controllers are bloody awfull.
My only thought is that DCC won't reduce the wiring?
Budget Model Railways - I think it only reduces wiring if you don't go all gizmo crazy. You need less or no section switches with DCC yet I think that is the only realistic reduction.
We don't use section switches on DC we use insulfrog points instead so no extra wiring
Budget Model Railways - Yeah I know you use plastic frogs.
I've 98% banned them from my layouts though, also relying on point blade contacts I 98% banned.
Plastic frogs are fine if you have a really good loco, especially a longer one but in my experience I have been perpetually frustrated with them for as long as I can remember.
I'm in the unfortunate camp where if I have a small loco and want to do slow shunting it is almost impossible and even medium speed with some longer locomotives end up stalling either on the plastic frogs or dirty blades.
I've utterly given up with them because (again in my subjective experience) I have found them to be way more trouble than they are worth and I can't even begin to describe the almost constant stress they have caused and the money lost in ripping layouts up over them.
But yes, as beginner or cheap easy option they can be ok, some people seem to be gifted with trouble free plastic frogs. I know and acknowledge this....I'm just not one of them!
I consider the full blown method to be the easy option, albeit slower because it then provides me with pleasure and relaxation of good consistent slow smooth running rather than stress having to poke an engine often.
Again I know a lot get away with it and have little bother but in the model rail world I must have been cursed by an angry frog because I now see little realistic option than to go 'all the way' so to speak.
Bad init!
Nice demo & I reckon you have made a good point.
Thanks
I’m running DC exclusive on N Scale layouts. Instead of migrating to DCC I’m holding out for a battery-operated design for locos. Problem with that is I may be too old to care when the technology is proven and fits into my budget-conscious approach to modeling.
I agree I believe radio control is the way forward
Budget Model Railways - I'm in this boat. Itching to go DCC but 'REALLY' wanting to go RC instead.
My hang up is they for the most part have not got 'functions' sorted out much.
I want DCC sound and the ability to turn smoke generators on/off.
Once this has been sorted and all the gubbins are small enough to fit into most locomotives I'm jumping in......or should I go DCC first?
If I wire the layouts for DC and DCC simultaniously as I currently do then all 3 systems can be used yet then there is more wiring.
Maybe I should invent wind powered locomotive control, could be cheaper and easier. Can of beans may be a good start!
We have a small wind turbine, might work outside on a windy day!? I'm convinced RC is the way to go, I saw one company advertising conversion of existing locos ,
RC ..... the coming future. Battery size and life ....... looking for that engineering solution and hobby innovator to lead the way.
Well, I have found that one of the main advantages of DCC is not so much the slow running but better starts and stops. Your loco starts and stops suddenly. With a decoder I think you might be able to smooth those out by adjusting the CVs because it uses pulse wave modulation (PWM) which gives the motor tiny kicks to get it smoothly over the stiffness on starting. (I've actually since converted to battery powered radio control, which solves a whole lot of problems).
We are just about to start experimenting with PWM and DC. At the slow speeds the start and stops are really not that sudden even with standard DC. We saw a DCC layout with computer control at a recent exhibition where the operator had to keep pushing his loco to start so DCC does not always solve the problem. Personally I think radio control is the way to go as well.
Excellent that you're experimenting with PWM. You preferably also need a 5 pole (or more) motor. Three pole is no good for models. I am also a firm believer in flywheels that are, if room available, bigger than motor. Also a controller that has simulation mode. I can't see the point in direct control. Here's an excellent example of good starts and stops, and it's N gauge:- czcams.com/video/ygorZAGyk9w/video.html Good luck with your efforts.
Also, for radio control I recommend this company:- www.protocab.com/welcome You can find cheaper but they will not supply the batteries and the batteries are a big problem for scales like OO because you have to use Lipos and they can be dangerous. This company supplies everything as plug and play and I think they have great potential for the future. I am not connected to them, just a satisfied customer.
@@BudgetModelRailways I built my last DC PWM regulated controller about 40 years ago. It's much better than straight regulated DC but I have moved on . my experience is DCC has a much lower minimum speed compared to DC.
@@terryflynn8830 take a look at our latest video for a DC loco slower than most others
well done.spot on. these small locos are good and excellent value and will do what they are meant to do.again you don't have to pay a lot of money for them if you know where to look..same applies to to the Hornby jinties which are excellent
Thanks I have two Jinties which as you say are great and available almost as cheaply
Once again you guys have proven that you don't have to break the bank to have a very good model railway. Thanx!
Good video that dispels the myths. Incidentally, what points are those you were using? Thanks
I try to use Peco ones, much better than the hornby
@@BudgetModelRailways thanks…Im going to replace a load of old steel hornby track. I want reliability so will go for Peco then.
I built an interface using PWM control. Put this in between the controller supplied and the track. Leave the controller on full power and control thru the PWM unit. I get supurb control from low to high. You can get these PWM units from China for 2 quid BUT you need to know what to do eg reversing the polarity to go in the othe direction.
So The Hornby controller can still have a use ha!!
Excellent idea, I might have a go at that
As you say the new type controllers are only rated 0.5amp. Bear in mind for older loco's you could use a cheap 5amp 12v power supply. The cheap PWM is rated at 3amp
wonderful.....Just goes to show !!! Cheers Ade
I do not use DCC because my layout only has two loops and if I tried slow running it would stall over my beat up old points that are from the 70s that I inherited from my father.
Certainly older points won't work well with DCC, mind you sometimes they don't work well with DC either
Hurrah!
I actually bought this for 35 ponds from Hattons I am still waiting for it because trans-Atlantic is murder but I can not wait to get it. I always liked the concept of the Hornby 0-4-0.
The newer ones are great little locos, we have another video on them due out soon
Long live DC . Steve
Long Live DC
The disadvantages are myths, spread by people who don't understand it and don't know about things like isolating points, unless you wont to run two trains on one track, operationally DCC has no advantages
Personally. I'm a dcc guy. But i'm also dirt poor. But I buy 10 dollar locos that are broke and put a 15 dollar decoder in the loco. Normally I have to hardwire them. But that was an easy learning experience. I also can't afford any space where I live for a layout. (Including the floor) so I go to my local club instead. That was my main push to dcc my roster and I love it. I have no problems with DC whatsoever. I've just managed to find dcc more enjoyable operation wise.
Do people still have PWM controllers these days? They were quite "big" 20 plus years ago, I even soldered a double unit with brake and acceleration simulation from a circuit diagram as a teenager. Since getting back in to model rail I have not seen any mention of them.
I have the twin track gaugemaster one and a kit built one which will move the motor one cog at a time with the pulse control.
I run a Gaugemaster DS Dual on my layout. It has brake and coasting simulation. I don't think DCC can do that. DCC is so fiddly too.
Of course DCC can have braking and coasting, with matching coasting sounds.
Afternoon
Ehhhhhhh...... I run DCC and don't fancy changing because I enjoy the ability to control lights and sounds. Though I know improvements are made to the DC scene (Dapol A4's DC sound and filcker less lights) I just think that to me DCC is how I want to go
Part of the reason I want to do a layout in your style and see if my opinion changes
Each to there own I guess, and it's what people what from their model railway
Ta
OR
The main disadvantage of DCC which tends to be the elephant in the room is cost, which obviously matters to us
Budget Model Railways
I get you, and as I've said previously it's each to there own. It's positive that the hobby can be done cheaply so it is accessible to a wide audience
Ps is that a new layout the Holden is running on?
OR
Well Oliver, since they are YOUR choo choo's, you are free to do as you like!!! Have at it, and have fun!!! =-)
The cost of DCC is dropping considerably, hornby e-link has given a good computer controller for a low price and decoders are down to less than $30 AUD (approx 15 pounds) for a good quality ESU lokpilot standard. For the extra capabilities to control the trains it's worth the cost unless your doing a very simple layout. If DC works for the user then more power to them, but cost isn't astronomical enough that DCC should be actively discouraged.
For my money ,they can drop DCC to 0 and I still will not have it. I have more than enough electronics in my life, thank you very much. I had more than enough "new tech" before I retired. I guess this makes me a Luddite. Just because some damned engineer say's "Look what we can do now" doesn't mean that I'm jumping on his transistorized, super conductored, latest whiz bang boffin mobile.
I love Dcc
It can be expensive and tricky to use but it’s very good
Whereas DC is cheap simple and easy to use ?!
Budget Model Railways yeah dc is really good for your money
I can run this Dc train and a Dcc train on the same track that seems like an advantage of running both systems..
Which Bachmann one is good as far as single? The one you can get in a train set without the Accessories ports or the one with the them?
The train set one seems fine
Very interest and enjoyable (As always)
I think there is a place for both. DC has its advantages as does DCC. I think Josh Bevan has said all that needs to be said.... Cheers Greg
Those new Hornby controllers are the worst thing Hornby have made! The 0-6-0 Hornby locos run even slower and smooth.
I'd love to do DCC one day, but it's going to cost a lot to upgrade all my stock!! :-D Think I'd rather buy a few more locos with the money. :-)
Hi guys 2022 .. just starting up (in South Aftica) with shunting layout for grandkids. Suggestions please for good slow running shunters and latest DC controllers. thanks
If you can get the Chinese electronic bits ( see our video) to put in one of our 3d printed boxes they are good. Guagemaster are good as are many older controllers , avoid cheap Hornby Controller they are awful at slow running. The newer Hornby 0-4-0 are good slow runners, as are the Terriers even the older ones. Electrotren/ golden valley/ jouef 0-6-0 are good as are the Oxford/Golden valley Janus, but not cheap even second hand. Golden valley have some still at £53 but not sure what postage would be. Prices are bonkers new or second hand sadly
@@BudgetModelRailways thank you so much for your prompt reply. I will be running thru all your earlier episodes for tips and advice ... they are really great. I have a son in the UK and he is due back in SA for a holiday in April so he can watch on eBay etc ... never know he may pick up something.
regards.
@@garyhollins2266 depends on your budget but the golden valley hobbies 0-6-0 at £53 direct from them is a good buy
Have you tried nail polish remover to clean the track I tried and works good
Great idea
Acetone but be careful as it eats plastic and paint.
Another great video. Yes - I run all DC and with a well maintained layout and locos the results can be great, even with 'low end' or cheaper locos, which make up most of my fleet anyway. Good point about the hornby controllers, they are truly, truly awful. I've binned all of mine. I don't how they can even sell them. I've have some cheap lima and mehano controllers which are shouts ahead of the current hornby ones.
We have several Mehano ones they are excellent
I disagree with that, I´ve had a silver hornby controller for almost 10 years and I´ve never had a problem with it, I even ran my entire 0-4-0 collection on it at slow speed without an issue so I fail to see the problem, my Dad had an old controller from the 70s and he always found it a bit heavy and difficult to move whereas modern controllers are much more portable.
You were lucky. They have no feel in the control and the ones we had were truly awful compared to just about anything else we use, and no wheres near the slow speed control of a PWM controller
Toss those "kit" transformers off the side and use them to light up structures & etc.
I use both
Like you id say most of my railway stuff is second hand,i buy mostly second hand track and clean it up,but what is the best way to clean the wheels on loco's?
We use soft fine sanding blocks from DIY stores, lots of people use various solvents as well
more good tips.
I totally agree about not needing DCC for slow running. I'm in the process of building my first new layout for many years, which is and end to end shunting display. I tried DCC using a Bachman Dynamis controller and chips from DCC Concepts including their stay alive unit. The running was terrible! The 4 wheel locos would stall on points, but the stay alive then kicked in and they shot off really fast. Absolutely useless! I had so much trouble with DCC I've now scrapped it and gone back to DC. Luckily I'm modelling American outline because traditionally their models are far better quality than the UK stuff. I've done away with the 4 wheel locos and now only use old Athearn blue box stuff with bogies. These locos are excellent runners with massive flywheels. With a good controller they will run a lot slower than you shows your Hornby tank doing in this video. I'd say I can get them below a scale walking pace!
Another problem with DCC is the chips can't cope with the higher amps drawn by older rolling stock. I wonder if this is a scam by manufacturers to make us all buy new locos?
Finally, I'll just add that proper cleaning and servicing of a loco can really do a lot to aid slow running. Pancake motors particularly have to be disassembled and the plastic gears removed and cleaned. They tend to get all sorts of hair and fluff tangled behind them, which is enough to stop them turning at very low DC voltage.
All good points well made thanks. Having once seen an exhibition layout take two hours to get running smoothly and then still having to push locos to get them started I don't believe DCC is always the perfect system people think
Your missing the point about DCC It enables mult train operation without complicated wiring. And you hit the nail on the head. If everything is ultra clean, DC works but you may only be using 3 volts or less. DCC has a permanent 15v nominal at the track so is less susceptible to slightly bad connections over points etc. DC is OK for a small layout so thats why it suits you!
We use DC on our large layout no issues and using a PWM controller puts more power in. The point of DCC is that it adds hugely to the cost for little real benefit. It shouldn't add to the cost as the price of tech has fallen dramatically, it's just an excuse to ramp up prices.
I need DCC for my n scale tgv’s.....
Do u think this applies to ngauge also?
Yes a decent DC controller will help in N
How good is your self made controller compared to this?
It seems to be on a par, or slightly better which is why we use them exclusively now
Ok thanks
That is a real strange thing the “only DCC can run slow” that is absolutely false obviously. DCC is more so to have multiple locos on the same layout doing different things at the same time on the same power grid. That is basically it. Also I have a even slower running DC Baldwin S12. Great loco
That's the point. I have all my locos and DMU on DCC but, honestly, on a pure budget point of view, if I have to start railway modeling now, I would stick to DC. DCC controlers, throttles, decoders... are awfully overpriced, and you can use DC for a small or medium-sized layout without too much complications compared to DCC. You just have to accept more wiring.
I've got a OO project in my mind, and it will be a pure DC layout.
In fact on a simple layout DC is less wiring esp if you use insulfrog points. We power a four road fiddle yard, a passing loop and a three road goods yard off just two wires in our lift layout
Olivier Gabin I got a somewhat mid range switching layout but I like to run multiple units due to how the trains are set up and my run around is too small to handle more than 7 cars without fouling. Plus in America I can get a DCC decoder for 10 dollars. The system I am waiting on. But it isn’t too bad
For mid-range, it becomes interesting to see for a DCC layout. Mine in N-scale would be modular, and DCC will be more simpler to wire. Especially because it is designed to be put up and brought down on a regular basis.
If you are running MU consists, there is no question about the validity of DCC. Same for shunting on a scale broader thant 2/3 roads.
$10 for a DCC decoder (without taxes I guess), I would like to find that here, in Europe. My last buy for a DMU is a £23/$30,3/26,14 € 6-pins decoder (prices includes the UK VAT of 19 %). One quarter of this price might be possible, no ?
dc's rarely are equipped for sound
I don't want sound, it doesn't justify the extra cost. I managed to wargame happily for decades without engine noise and gunfire in models so I'm not bothered.
@@BudgetModelRailways That cost is probably the reason I only have two locomotives and a few cars. It was a dc Bachman model that got me started anyway.
I have absolutely no interest in DCC. Seems basically gimmicks. As for the complex wiring in DC this is not an issue with isolated turnouts. I look under DCC layouts and I see just as many wires. Also DCC-ready is a way of jacking up the price of models.
I agree totally. I don't want to run two trains on the same track or have lights and sound. Adding £100 to a loco for a computer chip that's costs a few quid is nonsense. With insul points you only need two wires with DC, not the endless droppers of dcc
@@BudgetModelRailways Another issue is DCC folks having to spend money on expensive Stay Alive circuits as if there is a power loss the sound and lighting chips reset and the sound of the loco starting up again happens even if the loco is running at speed. The say the wiring issue is gone with DCC - it isn't - but even if it was, DCC requires all kinds of upgrades and you need an expensive and hefty power supply to handle all the loco running on the same track - which is easy enough in DC using isolated sections and what the US modelers call 'cab control'. Very easy to do. The DC locos will become like Vinyl LPs and CDs. In years to come people will go back to DC models for 'authentic model railway feel'... Just watch! DCC is a black hole of money.
Totally agree 100%
I need DDC Its very handy to have
Why out of interest, what does it add for the much higher cost.
@@BudgetModelRailways well DCC allows you to have functions like sound and lights and some DCC controllers only cost 80 quid and 50
if you're lucky
@@Johnaviator862 my DC controller cost me £10 , and DCC locos are very much more than DC. Fir me lights and sound don't justify that, but to each their own
Have you a contact for classic rail we’re you buy your bits from?
You can find him online, but he is closed until 1st August for holidays.
Budget Model Railways am looking a Hornby pug L Y
He occasionally has them, it's worth giving him a ring
The reason I use dcc is I run four trains on the same track like to see you do that plus I use old stock dc trains o four o and convert them for a ten pound dc chip so I can no double head them so I paid fifteen pounds four the train off ebay and ten pounds for the hornby chip the train was practically new not a scratch on it ran well on dc now runs even better so twenty five quid for a dcc train ain't bad in my books and I can run as many trains at the same time which boy is fun dcc dies not have to be expensive I have never bought a new dcc ready loco most are old dc done are second hand dcc ready with out the chip which you can spen as little or a lot on chips depending on what you want to work on your loco a old steam really only neads the drive to be covered and maybe a light in the cab or lamp on the front were a diesel you may want cab running lights interior lights so a more functional chip maybe required so you can spend ten pounds for a basic one or up to fifty pounds or a hundred pounds for a sound one with speakers I prefer the ten pound one on most steamers and a twenty five pound one on the diesels as they pull a heaver load and the chips are more stable at very low speeds with a heavy load on them bacherman chips are good but there are better ones for more money which I can't afford but I have said you can fo dcc on a budget with a bit of know how the instructions for wiring the chips up are generally pretty good you will need to solder but anybody can do it there are plenty of youtube videos on how to do it and a bit of heat shrink off ebay you can find second hand dcc Controllers on ebay I bought mine new with my birthday money well worth it. I do agree if you are going to run one train at a time dc is the way to go but if you want to run many and some on the same track or crossing it or double or triple heading then dcc is definitely the way to go well that's my opinion anyway lol.
Awesome 3rd
I have dc and I can run slower then that!
The camera makes things look a lot faster than they really are
First