Dan Barker describes going from preacher to atheist and how nature designed the world, not God (7/8)
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- čas přidán 17. 12. 2023
- Dan Barker speaks in proposition of the motion that This House believes that God is a delusion. Mr Barker is a former evangelical Christian preacher. He is the co-President of the Freedom from Religion Foundation (alongside his wife Annie Laurie Gaylor) which campaigns for the separation of church and state.
This is the seventh speech of eight.
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Dan Barker is the kindest man. He remains a patient and gentle man who has worked to stop harm caused by religion. Who was the man interrupting him to say nobody should be questioning god.?
That is odd. I can't speak for all religions, but in Catholicism, questioning God or the nature of God is a must. Crisis of Faith is also considered part of the path of faith. Contrary to what Anti-theists often say, blind acceptance does not bring about strong faith.
@@user-kh7rz6rv4o so what happens when you have a crisis of faith I once believed and my loss of faith was not a crisis
@@robinhood20253 I actually had a discussion a few weeks ago. Some people just have an epiphany, or a gradual transaction with no "crisis". The crisis I believe is merely the psychological difficulty during a faith transition.I have met people who were raised in an Atheist culture and experienced the crisis as they transitioned into Theism. It seems that Crisis is akin to what some people calI "buyer's remorse". It seems that it's a fear that one has made the wrong choice. I now think that the "crisis" is important and is part of being sure of the direction one's going, including apostasy. I went through it 25 years ago when I died (clinically). I now live in Thailand, and enjoy talking with the Abbot of our village Wat (Buddhist Temple). He once told me that the only thing crazier than believing in a Universe created by a ombipotent creator, is a universe created without one. In Theravada Buddhism, there doesn't seem to be a difference between Creator and Creation. In English and All European languages, God is given the pronoun, "He", but in some Asian Languages, there is a pronoun genderless pronoun for got, but not the same as "It". Personally, I am a Theist ( not an Atheist). My experience and education has caused to transition in different directions. The most fundamental Laws of Physics ( not theory) say that in nature, Mass and Energy ( thus Time) cannot be created or destroyed, which makes Atheistic problematic. But, that leaves the question of where the creator came from. The only answer would be somewhere outside of nature. Nobody, neither theologian or physicist can KNOW. It's either faith or theory. That's the source of my Crisis. Today is the one year anniversary of my Mother's Death, which has brought back the ambiguity of my beliefs vs. my knowledge. That is my crisis of Faith. Theists, Atheists, and Anti-theists all experience it, but most don't want to admit it.
Your problem is with Protestants. Questioning god is not part of their path because blind acceptance is their path . @@user-kh7rz6rv4o
@@user-kh7rz6rv4oI think it depends on what branch of Catholicism you belong to or identify with.
Now I know that officially, Catholicism is the One True Faith where doctrine has never changed and the teachings are infallible. In reality, Catholics have extremely varying opinions on the nature of God. If you ask an extreme traditionalist, I’d wager they’d have a very different opinion about questioning God than you do (trust me, I have a few of them in my family).
I wouldn’t call myself an anti-theist (I guess I’m more of an agnostic), and I would never suggest that one must blindly accept everything their religion teaches to be a valid believer. The problem is, that’s exactly what the Catholic Church and many of its adherents suggest. This is what led me to deconstruct my Catholic faith; part of me was, and is, sad about losing it, but to make a very long story shorter, there came a point where I just couldn’t believe in it or the God that had authority over it anymore.
However, if you still continue to find peace/belonging in the church, and if it genuinely makes you a better person, I would never want to take that away from you or anyone. That said, if there’s an instance where religious doctrine conflicts with your moral compass, follow the heart that God (if he exists) gave you, not the religion run by hypocrites.
"The easiest way to go from being a Christian to an Athiest is to actually _read_ the Bible." -- Osho
You've read the entire Bible ? Even the begetting and begatting
Exactly.....that's what happened to me. Worst book I ever read....too much violence and misogyny
There’s an entire ancient and cultural context you’re missing if you dismissed it that easily. Just saying.
@@vincentpena5574 not surw what you mean by that, do you mean that God’s words can differ depending on time and cultural context?
Why wouldn't it have violence. What did you expect. Why did you expect a book partly written about the folly, sin and pride of man to not have some sought of violence in it. The Bible doesn't try and hide our evil, it makes sure we recognise it! @@SUGAR_XYLER
Very well done sir! I so appreciate people like him that can combat this mass delusion we’re living through.
Dan Barker is a lovely man. Met him in London where he did some talking and some music. Just a great man, so much compassion and love.
You cant say enough kind things about Dan Barker. Every speech is great.
I am continually amazed at how many assume that there is one god considering that for most of history humans have believed in many gods at the same time. Monotheism is a recent concept.
Ancient Jews didn’t believe in the system of “monotheism” as this is, as you said, a recent concept. They did readily accept the existence of a variation of “gods”(who are also known in the Bible as principalities, powers, rulers, cherubim, seraphim, etc.) Yahweh, however, is considered, as Dr Michael Heiser has famously coined “species unique”, originating and reigning sovereign over all of creation. This actually fits perfectly with Aristotelian reasoning in his compiled “Metaphysics” notes.
The bible is clearly henotheistic
Preaching for 19 years straight and still managed to escape the religious system and start thinking critically. I'd really love to hear/read the story about this man!
It’s called Godless: how an evangelical preacher became an atheist.
It just goes to show, there's always hope.
As a non-religious Jew who is struggling with these questions of faith later in life, I'm about to watch a made for TV Play from 2008 BBC - God On Trial. Should be an interesting watch.
You should read the Quran. The things it says will keep you up at night, knowing about 2 billion people follow this religion.😂
God is about as real as Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny or fairies.
Santa and the bunny aren't real, ?? What are you saying. ?
Thank God for Dan Barker! No pun intended
If you can’t be funny please at least be original.
Can totally relate to what he says Being a atheist by christian definition only there is something to the notion of intelligent source with a agenda And while the search to understand initially began in religion Christianity in particular it couldn't provide understanding or the essentials needed for the growth and development of the mind body and soul on either a individual or collective level.Call it evolution or nature it's a natural processes if you live right you grow out of it
Brilliant & so convincing.
The illusion of design comes from human arrogance. The vast majority of complex things (living things, snowflakes, etc) are not actually designed. Even the processes of design that humans use have very evolutionary (natural selection) elements to them.
It takes faith to believe in blind chances. I really commend your faith.
@@Theloneyat it's not very honest to reduce probabilities and statistics to "blind chances". There are many different ways to calculate the probabilities of given outcomes. For example, you can try to calculate conditional and unconditional odds depending on whether the previous outcome affects the subsequent outcome or not. But the most important part is to try to collect all available data on the subject.
Evolution itself involves certain conditions, such as natural selection and a limited number of stable configurations of organic molecules. The simplest and most stable of which have been detected even on asteroids in the cosmic vacuum.
@@Theloneyat it's not very honest to reduce probabilities and statistics to "blind chances". There are many different ways to calculate the probabilities of given outcomes. For example, you can try to calculate conditional and unconditional odds depending on whether the previous outcome affects the subsequent outcome or not. But the most important part is to try to collect all available data on the subject.
Evolution itself involves certain conditions, such as natural selection and a limited number of stable configurations of organic molecules. The simplest and most stable of which have been detected even on asteroids in the cosmic vacuum.
So what's exactly among the most complex things is not designed? Any proof?
@@harutikz The evidence is that every living thing has come about through evolution. There is not one bit of evidence that anything living was designed.
He saw the light and said it was good.
Thank you, much appreciated. Always a pleasure to listen to Dan Barker ❤️
Dan Barker. A great man. Great lecturer. Joy to listen. Salute.
One can just hammer a thought into mind to the point that one will believe it is true. And threfore, after that is true but only to that individual.
I often made a similar point to religious people I meet: a lot of people would say Harry Potter exists. A lot of people know about Harry Potter. And he just might be Daniel Radcliffe for all intents and purposes, in which case he exists by proxy. But Harry Potter, as depicted in the books, does NOT exist.
If you can't trust what you see, smell, taste and touch, how can you trust that your brain thinks correctly? This is the question the religious need to answer.
1:23 “know” is debatable, sadly to us humans.
can someone boil down the question at 9:11 for me. I honestly have no clue what the gentleman was trying to ask.
I don't think he knows himself. Just throwing in some fancy words and coming to a ridicilous conclusion to somehow make an argument for god.
The point he is making is that why argue there is no God instead of arguing that the evidence the speaker believes suggest that it is more likely than not that God does not exist. The agnostic view makes for boring debate and lazy thinking since it is wishy-washy at best. Theism is more logical to me as a coherent point of view than atheism. There are plenty of cosmological, ontological, teleological and historical rationales for the truth of theism.
Dan Barker is a great debater
Barker is excellent. The young men on the bench behind are a bit disappointing in lack of attention and fiddling with phones, side-eye.
It's not rocket science it's simple Quantum physics.
"Education is greater than Opinions and Beliefs combined "- Aaron Kuntze
I call it Quantum logic
Check my math
E>(O+B) = true
Quantum information processing requires Quantum logic.
Then who created us? Nature? Are the big bang theories are true?
God created us. The atheist doesn’t want him to exist because they fear a coming judgment. How in the hell could something explode and create a ball spinning in the middle of space? Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. When something explodes, it destroys, it doesn’t create. They accuse the believers of nonsense but they themselves are fools. Just look at what atheists make up and believe
Im an ex-evangelical. Im also still very spiritual. To say God is delusional you have to be very tight on the definition you are using when you say the word "God". I think orthodox Christianity is delusional in its doctrines about God. But God as the Platonic "Good" is beautiful.❤
Carl sagan adressed this case of very loose definition of god. He calls it a social lubricant to mask the truth that people don't actually agree on the truth of the world, but to make it seem that they do.
Why call it god if you don't mean a single creator of the world? Call it something different to decrease confusion.
But the Platonic good has a selfish teleological end. So if God is good in this frame then you are basically saying God just wants me happy above all else. What happens when your happiness is at odds with anothers? How do you know who is right or wrong?. Who’s happiness prevails? How do you derive moral decision making and how do you apply it? Moral theory rewuire both positive obligations and moral prohibitions. Therefore how can you have objective good without a religious view? Just food for thought questions, no need to reply (unless you just want to).
Of which there is absolutely no proof. If you have an imaginary friend nicer than the other imaginary friend, great. Less likely to cause trouble. But it's still an imaginary friend. This is the point of atheists and humanist. Why rely on something we make up to feel good. You, make the world better. You can argue that your kinder god inspires you to make the world better. But it still has one foot in fantasy and the possible slide to fanatical is only one bad event away. We don't like bad events. We like to think they won't happen to us. Our imaginary friend will protect us. But when it does, damn, it wasn't my imagery friend, it must be those I've been warned about. Avoid the slippery slope you are on believing in imaginary friends. You cannot slip to fundamentalist if you are not religious. Many atheist consider maturing. Growing out of the need for a binky or blank. What do you see in the dark? It's just lack of light.
But the fine tuning argument isn't that the universe is fine tuned to produce us, but that the universe is fine tuned to exist at all.
Slight variance in any of the fundamental constants means that the universe would be completely different. No universe, empty universe, extremely cold or hot, infinitely dense, etc.
We don't actually know that for sure. It's also a possibility that any deviations could have led to a universe that's simply different-not the one we're getting to know but something else. We don't have the full picture yet and we won't for a while... but we don't just answer the question we can't yet figure out by going "God did it."
While I am definitely pro-atheist here the arguments against fine-tuning really need to be improved. What atheists need to understand is that fine-tuning is fundamentally a God of the Gaps argument. In the same way that ancients struggled to explain the cause of lightning or thunderstorms except as the manifestation of an angry God, we are also struggling to explain the exact value of fundamental constants, and making plenty of assumptions along the way (that these values can be randomly selected to begin with, or that they could have been different). While there are theories such as parallel universes that explain it all perfectly well, the reality is that a lack of any available explanation should not lead one to conclude that a God exists. We simply have no idea if another explanation is waiting to be found, or whether the true explanation may be incomprehensible to us. Either way these two options have to be eliminated before we can logically deduce that God is the only remaining option, which theists of course never do.
I'm a Christian pastor of 20+ years currently and well educated with a Doctorate in ministry. I can understand these thoughts and wrestlings, and alot could be said and alot of questions can be asked of Mr. Barkers experience. May I say two things: first, it seems as if under the laws of epistemology in spiritual things, arguments for atheism are really not any stronger that arguments for theism. It is not totally clear one should absolutely choose atheism. Second, in all honesty, I think many atheists should really simply be agnostic.
Also the argument of epistemic necessity is helpful for theism to me. The reliability of the imperfect and limited mind to completely judge or define reality correctly.
One more thing: experts say that when people leave Christianity, the sufficiency, or lack thereof, of their theology has a lot to do with their departure. Studies have found that of people who leave Christianity have in common certain theological orientations. Interesting. Just something to consider.....
agnostic/gnostic relates to a knowledge claim.
atheist/theist relates to a belief.
If were going to be honest with ourselves, epistemically, we are all agnostic. But our beliefs don't necessarily follow that.
@@seth9537 Dan Barker was probably a false convert just like any other ex christians. There is a difference between true vs. false converts. A Christian never walks away from faith in the first place.
Atheism is just a coping mechanism for people to deal with sin. Everyone knows the God whose image they are made in.
@@PianoDentist Yes, theism is a claim.
Atheism is also a claim.
Agnosticism is the default position that if may be or may not.
But the fact that Christianity is true, both Atheism and Agnosticism would lie in the same category of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Prayersss for you, we hope you turn back to god before jesus comes Back. Read revelations. We hope that you are the prodigal son Their is alot of proof that God exists
There's never been a shred of empirical evidence for any of the over 25,000 gods created by man throughout recorded history. "God" is just a word for human ignorance and wild imagination.
"Christians always write to me threatening me with Hell. Strange how they think this vindicates them and their religion. Threats are the hallmark of a wicked creed." - Richard C. Carrier, Jr.
1 Timothy 6:20-21
He didn't believe in God at all. He talks as if he thought God was a human person with physical attributes and limitations and living on a cloud.
Oh! So you know his nature?
the "why are you trying to smoke him out?" comment was pretty funny.
I know that if I was god I would absolutely not provide tangible solid physical evidence of my existence. You guys would be putting that stuff in bombs before the end of the week.
But if you were god you would know what they were doing and make inert or go away. Sorry, not a good excuse.
these ppl r funny
Theology will be a bore
Come good Christians … own a Jew
We will play that game with you
We’ll tell you what you long to hear
That a god will hold you dear
Bring your money and your brain
That we will train for our domain
We will teach you how to fight
To defend with all your might
As theologians we are proud
That you follow us and preach so LOUD
There’ll come a day when you will see
We lied to you … you will agree
You’ll see that Jesus was a myth
As were all saviors meant to lift
To dominate emotions high
And take them soaring to the sky
When that day comes and come it will
You’ll free your selves from our swill
You will choose to fight no more
Theology will be a bore
June VanDerMark
July 25, 2013
He postulates what he does not understand or know doesn’t exist, ...it’s a common logical conclusion, exhibited in kiddie Winkies
Funny how CZcams. a secular endeavor has bern used to spread christianity like nothing better. All sorts of christian songs in many different languages exist here. In live worship services. Stories of conversions. Messages. Near death experiences. Stories of angels and demons. Not to mention believers all around the world.
"People think they came from monkeys... they really need to read their magical book about talking snakes and donkeys -- oh, and firebreathing dragons and a man who created everything from nothing who will burn you forever if you don't think he was born of a virgin and had himself killed as his own son to save you from his father."
Uh, guys, I too admire and respect Dan and his sincere effort to try to deconvert others by sharing his own change of faith to that of atheism. Yet , in spite of his impressive religious background and teaching and scholarly experience, bro. Dan seems to just realize now that the modern day bible is a very imperfect, very flawed, overly edited, plagiarized, piece of biblical literary work of fiction, superstition, sorcery, by very flawed, overzealous writers from the gospel writers and Paul and all succeeding contributing writers and editors after them thru out millennia. So, bro.Dan turned to atheism as so many other disillusioned Christians have done but atheism is simply a weak counter response to cover their disappointment. However, be glad and rejoice,, dear brethren! For i bring glad tidings! That God is nt dead but very much alive, thank you! And he was never the god of the bible. That god was the created god of Moses as found in Genesis, his first five books, called the Pentateuch. where you also find his childish version of Adam and Eve and a talking who appears smarter than
Cont....Adam and Eve and talking snake who appears smarter than they and who brought divine punishment on them for eating a stupid fruit, apple is the popular version, in innocent, childish disobedience to the divine prohibition. The snake told them that eating the apple would bring great knowledge and understanding and obviously God didnt want that, according to Moses, the author. Instead, God wanted us to be dumb and stupid
like the sheep he is tending.
Today s God, brother Dan , and you guys out there, you will find in this channel, and has been for awhile now a video titled, Conversations with God, produced by Neale Donald Walsch, God s response to those who honestly seek him using this modern technology. All bro. Dan has to do is to come down from his high perch and join millions worldwide who are enjoying this video in major languages.
Oof, his arguements are so fundamental yet so flawed. Id love to debate him.
Yeah right, let’s hear some of those flaws here.
Dan believes the Big Bang theory. Is that flawed enough for you?
The evidence is everywhere, hes probably never studied the fabric of reality. Hes also never contemplated free will, if hes asking questions like "why wouldnt God perfectly and clearly reveal himself" .... I was excited for this video, as a former arhiest even i could bring up better arguements than this.
Free will isn’t a valid criticism to the question of divine hiddenness, God can make his existence clear to all without forcing anyone to love him or follow him. The fact that he remains so hidden points to one of two main options: 1) He doesn’t exist; or 2) If there is a God he’s different from the one in the bible. And what are your better arguments from your former atheistic self I wonder, as Dan Barker makes great ones. If you have better atheistic arguments against the existence of the Christian God I’d love to hear them.
Out of all of these debaters, David was the best. His arguments were rational and made sense. He explained scientifically and he explained God in the spectrum of Universe rather than blaming some religions & their believers or giving some stupid experiences & examples of debater's own life. Debate was on God not the religions or religious people. All the other debaters either explained what they believe or called the opposition ignorant, strange and delusional for their beliefs. Nobody gave a single sane scientific reason or any sane evidence of why God is a delusion. They were lacking evidence just because they don't understand What and how God is. The debater who blamed misery of the world unto religion by saying that most miserable people on Earth are the ones who believe in God. He just need to study history that most of the wars are not fought because of the religion. America dropped atom bombs on Japan as a result Japan was in miserable state, so did that misery happen coz Japanese were religious? (Btw japan was and is atheist), America invaded Iraq and killed millions, so Iraqis were in miserable state, bcoz of America or beacuse Iraqis are religious? Jews of Israel believe they are God chosen people and they occupied Palestine, beacuse they believe Palestine is the land God chosed for them, so they are genociding Palestinians since 1948 and Palestine is in miserable condition just because Palestinians are religious? Hunger and poverty rate is so high in America and people are in miserable state beacuse they are religious? Britain invaded Africa, enslaved Africans, cut their hands so Africa was in miserable state bcoz Africans were religious? Afghanistan was invaded by America and Soviet Union, as a result millions of Afghanistanis were killed and were in miserable state just because they were religious? America & others today eating Africa's resources and Africa is in miserable state coz africans are religious? On the contrary Saudi and UAE are the least crime rated countries coz they are religious? Or Arab nations have most of the world's resources (oil, gas) (that America is hungry about) so you think Arabs are so lucky coz they are religious? You must be delusional to believe that misery in the world is bcoz of Religion. It is all the game of System. Game of politics and power. All the poverty, hunger, instability, worst health conditions, insecurity are the products of Capitalism. That's a "debate of System" not the debate of: "religious people are in worst condition coz they believe in God so why would God put them in such state when they are the beleivers of God and vice versa". Seriously?! That's your argument that why God doesn't exist?!These so called Democrats capitalists and poltical leaders want people (whether religious or non religious) to be miserable to fill their pockets, not the God! and they will be sure punish in the Hell. God has told us to implement the system of God on Earth in which everyone lives in freedom, harmony and that will be the duty of his believers (who have established his System) to make sure that everyone gets the food, healthcare, shelter and human rights unlike a Capitalist system in which elites and Capitalists only cares about GDP and their economy no matter who dies of hunger and poverty. They don't care about distribution of resources. They only care about production.
And you gonna ask me name one System of God that has implemented such system in which everyone was prosperous, free of poverty and hunger. So yeah that's Islamic System of Khilafah that ruled the world from 622 to 1924 AD. And this system also ended coz in the end their beleivers started compromising laws and rules of the God. But still their religion (rituals and worshipping) is alive but not the system. Islam is actually a social, political, economical system of God including religion. That's another debate. But atleast have some knowledge of world before claiming such things.
Also the debaters who were representing Hinduism and Sikhism were more interested in proving their religions right rather than proving why God does exist. Hinduism seems confused to me coz they are like modern version of Christianity who allows everything in their religion surrounding the belief that God is love. Nothing is fixed in their religion, seemed like a philosophy more. They are ready to accept atheism too but not Abrahamic religions for whatever reason. As far i know Hinduism, it is more like spiritual thing like Buddhism rather than being a proper religion. As the matter of religion only Islam and Judaism are those religions that wouldn't dare to change a single thing in their theology. And in Quran (Islamic holy book), God commands his believers to establish and implement his System. In which they have no right to change a single law.
And I ask you a simple question if someone kills your loved one would you punish him or not? Should you be called an evil for punishing that murderer? Why aren't you "loving enough" to let go of that murderer? Because this world is a test. Those who commit wrong must get the Punishment. In hell, We will be only punish if we do evil. God doesn't like to put someone in hell but he will put that person in hell who will put someone in this world in hell. These scientists couldn’t even cross the next galaxy yet and they talk about proximities and probabilities of Universe so confidently based on their hypothesis when they failed to explain why there is not even a single flaw in Universe or in the creation of God and what is the purpose of Life. Nobody gave a single reason why God doesn't exist or how science can replace God. Just beacuse you can't see God doesn't mean God doesn't exist. Some decades ago you didn't even see the Blackholes, white holes etc but they do exists too. If a person centuries ago told you that there is something in Universe called blackholes you wouldn't had believed him coz you had not seen Black holes yet. But coz you didn't see yet will not deny their existence. Then i don't know from where peope get the guts to deny the probability of God's existence at all. Btw about Black holes muslims used to believe them (not by the name of blackholes but the concept, function and physical appearance) coz they are written in their book Quran (1450 y/o) & some Muslim scientists researched on that stuff.
Thank you for reading this long article of mine. I hope to see more debaters like David in Oxford Union in future.
All Gods are imaginary.
The sheer fact that different cultures used different units for measuring lenght and as such lacks consensus on how to define the unit for lenght, doesn't mean lenght doesn't exist, nor does it mean that those units for measuring it didn't exist.
Hence proof of lack of consensus about a thing doesn't mean the thing does not exist as this guy seems to argue.
The units existing are still human constructs and the natural laws are not bound to them. Them being different doesn't change the fact that they represent the same thing and can be used the same way and can be translated to ONE SINGLE MEASURE if all were to agree to only use one. Because all those measures don't disagree with each other!
Other things like the periodic table where discovered twice by two different people, and they both are identical and predicted elemts we discovered decades later, thats how accurate this model of the periodic table is.
Yet theists can't even agree on the rules about life god gave us, nor have they independently come up with the same idea of god which don't disagree with eachother.
To even compare the ideas of god to length measures is a joke
@@DundG Theists within the same christian denomination can, just like how different nations can have the same unit of length within their nation, having the same unit for lengh in all nations worldwide is just as problematic as having the same biblical interpretation among all different christian denomination. So no it's not a joke, you just refuse to even consider the problem seriously but you didn't poke a hole in the analogy, more likely you merely attempt to ridicule it because you couldn't find a logical argument. I suggest you think a bit more on it and at least attempt to formulate a logical counterargument rather than to present a classic ad absurdo fallacy.
@@BlacksmithTWD We have the same length system worldwide, it is called the metric system and is used by scientists worldwide with great success, even in the US. And we still can translate metric to imperial, and back or any other system for length.
So how is it problematic? Can you give one example?
@@DundG Nonsense, the system used by scientists worldwide is Le Système international (SI) of which the metric system merely is a part. The SI unit for temperature is Kelvin, yet the US weather forecast uses Farenheit. You say we can can translate metric into imperial and I know I can, and perhaps you can as well, but I seriously doubt if even half the population of the US can do so even with one quantity. SI unit for volume is in liters while in the US it's gallons, at least one plane has crashed because of this difference but there are thousands of examples, luckily most of them less dramatic.
@@DundG At least you improved from presenting an ad absurdo fallacy to an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy. Still fallacious but at least you seem willing to learn.
I found it difficult to believe in a sky spook that has such a bad failure rate and cannot even follow his own laws.
I needed a new hero....
I chose Forrest Gump 😂
Your not better then God tread carefully
You're not better than Zeus tread carefully!
@@radscorpion8You're not better than Odin, tread carefully.
I really enjoy listening to this guy. He really knows his stuff. I am 100% on board with him when it comes to "The God of the Bible". But I have to leave open the possibility that there is some unknowable creative and intelligent force behind all creation. There's a lot more to "fine tuning" than he admits here. For example, there are 4 known forces in the universes. If any of the 4 were even a fraction stronger or weaker, the universe could not exist. For some weird reason, I became interested in cells and proteins. I learned that there are somewhere near 2000 different proteins, each with a specific "job" to do. A protein molecule is made up of amino acid molecules strung together. There are 20 different amino acids. One protain molecule may contain as many as 150 amino acids which have to be arranged in an EXACT ORDER. If one is out of place, it won't work. To make it even more complicated, each of the 20 amino acids has two versions. Call them "A" and "B". To make a protein, ONLY "As" can make it work. One "B" slips in there, it boogers the whole thing up. The amino acids are stuck together by something called "Peptide bonds". Does anyone even know what that is? THEN, the entire string has to fold itself into a specific shape in order for the new protein molecule to do it's work. Anyone have any idea how that happens? Anyway, the math has been worked out. If 20 amino acids were randomly combining themselves are the rate of once a minute, there has not been enough time since the Big Bang to make one protein molecule. And there are billions of protein molecules in every living body. Each one properly placed and doing it's assigned job. Never mind the peptide bonds and folding problem. SO! This did not happen by random chance. SOMEONE figgered it out and made it happen!
This was an opinion piece, not a positive argument for atheism.
He gave plenty of reasons to doubt the existence of the God of the bible, and he gives plenty more in other videos. He’s using basic logic.
So this guy admits to having evolved backwards
I am loathe to ask, but here goes ... would you care to elaborate ?
@@tariq_sharif Not interested in answering
@@maria369 Yet here you are answering, classic narcissim ... never mind, perhaps one day you will acquire an incisive wit laced with intellectual rigour.. until then we can but hope...
@@tariq_sharif Oh what eloquence and depth of intellect
I'm so impressed 🙄😒
@@maria369Makes “argument” (too generous to even call it that, really) / snarky comment.
Refuses to elaborate.
I’m sorry, but real life is not a gigachad meme. Your childishness and ignorance and arrogance just come across as pathetic to people who actually value critical thinking.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man-and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Romans 1:18-25 NKJV
These claims are just bigotry used to attack people who understand how fallacious these arguments are. You've demonstrated the nastiness of christianity and how it must viciously attack non-believers because apologetics are devoid of any intellectual honesty.
No creation, now what?
@@tschorschYou really DO NOT understand Christianity to begin with.
@tschorsch I simply posted a bible text, your overly emotive response speaks volumes. Like the bible says, you are without excuse
@@tschorsch Atheist do steal from God to make their case. Point is atheism is false worldview.
Just as you know that metaphysical abstracts exist independently on its own. For instance we all know that there is such a thing as truth that exist or let's say morality that exist. We all people irrespective of beliefs believe in this thing as truth and morality without any scientific evidence for it. Science cannot prove everything. There are things that exist beyond science and they exist independently & ontologically.
Atheism has no justification for it while as Christians we can justify this on God. God the source all of it.
in these last days of egoism (man's consciousness of self as being god) there will be a greater shift away from God or a greater shift to understanding the whole truth about God: I am grateful I had the second experience because I can see that without a MORAL COMPASS, there is no ultimate meaning to life and if there is no ultimate meaning, there is nothing to work towards or for but the god of this world, our ego:
everything in the Bible is a metaphor and parable about us, even Hashem, HaSatan, Aaron (light bearer/MENORAH/SOUL) and Jesus (THE ANOINTNIG that LIGHTS THE MENORAH: So before David (the good and deep ground of our heart) can give birth to Messiah (the anointing) the RECEIVER (Aaron/PRIESTHOOD) must be seen as righteous enough to receive the ANOINTING: What makes the priesthood (Aaron) righteous? The Spirit of ELIJAH (which is the DESIRE FOR MESSIAH). The ego is beheaded (John the Baptist from Aaron) is made righteous by the same HOLY SPIRIT that impregnates David's soul (Mary/rebel) because the heart is a rebel till it gives birth to the anointing: Jesus said none born to woman (Israel, the heart is the woman) is greater than John, but he that has ENTERED the Kingdom, is greater than he. WHY? Because he not only gets rid of his ego (beheaded) but he has received the NEW HEAD of HASHEM revealed in the anointing.
Zechariah (remembered of Yah, hence remember me for GOOD) and Elizabeth (daughter of seven/seven candlesticks/SOUL of Israel) are seen as righteous when they bring ELIJAH into the world, known as John (blessed of YAH) the Baptist) who takes ISRAEL DOWN into the Jordan to die to their old identity (old man or FIRST ADAM) and rise as the NEW and LAST ADAM who is able to BEHOLD THE LAMB of God that takes away the SIN of the world:
Jesus is a NAME for the anointing when the anointing goes through the heart, making the heart MAN, hence the full stature of the INNER MAN of the heart. Jesus is always born through the heart and is not a person but the LAST COLLECTIVE ADAM when ALL ADAM is resurrected again.
ONLY THE ANOINTING gives anyone a RESURRECTION from the dead: Without the ANOINTING, there has to be reincarnation, hence ISRAEL IN EXILE: Jesus is the SON OF ELYOWN (ALA) the God of Abraham and his priest Melchizedek who later becomes the God of MOSES who knows him as YHVH: ALL Abrahamic religions are deceived and here is why: THEY DO NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT and this includes Christianity: Jesus is NOT a Jew but the King of the Jews, and King of Israel through the tribe of Judah, house of David. The MOST HIGH GOD (ELYOWN) and his priest Melchizedek whose ORDER David is after, brings God to and THROUGH the heart of Israel making it a JEW (circumcision of the heart is a Jew and apart from that circumcision (Abrahamic covenant) there is NO TRUE JEW, just a GENETIC Jew which is not any different than a genetic gentile. The first Jew Abraham was MADE A JEW by the ONE who said, "Abraham saw MY DAY and was glad" (GEN 15): Jesus is not a person but the ANOINTING in any person which is how a Jew is made, the ANOINTING must go through his heart (Abraham's covenant, circumcising it, Dan 9, Mathew 24, to rid if ot the abomination that causes all desolations in the earth) and without this circumcision, there are just people who BELIEVE in a God they don't really KNOW: Jews and Christians don't understand the BIBLE because they don't have the HOLY SPIRIT YET:
once Adam is all resurrected (the many/LEGION) becomes ONE AGAIN to be in Hashem's IMAGE AND LIKENESS, there will be no more GREEK or JEW or religion because NO MAN SHALL SAY "KNOW GOD" for all shall know me from the least to the greatest: THE GLORY of HASHEM shall FILL the earth (your brain) as the waters cover the sea (your subconscious):
Belief in God is the egotism. “God has a plan for me”, “God made me”, “I follow God’s will”. It’s all narcissism, you have NO idea if God has a plan, has made you or what God wants from you. You just made it up because you want to feel good and important! Christianity=narcissism
We have a built-in moral compass. That's where morality derives - not from the god concept or religion.
Wow nature designed everything. That takes more faith than I have.
Depends on the timeline. If you think Earth is just a few thousand years old i would have to agree. The evidence says otherwise.
I think it is by far a more mature and reasonable response to think that a natural process was responsible than "a magical man in the sky did it". Your answer is essentially out of a child's storybook
@@radscorpion8 natural process. Ok. So a to b to c to d how did the logic occur? When you start with nothing you end with nothing. A process without rules. Everything runs on rules. So rules without a determiner. It pains so much to have an origin which started the laws.
@@radscorpion8don't make a stereotypical caricature of God- which you know is not accurate to Christian beliefs. It is far more reasonable to say that order, design, logic, and life itself came from an intelligent designer. Saying that nothing created something and then that something which was chaos and orderless suddenly created order and life itself from non-life
You don't need more faith; you need more knowledge.
You were never a Preacher, not called by God, you just wanted to do it and you were following man's rules. You were never a believer.
Well personally I could never follow a sky wizard that couldn't even follow his own laws but expects me to.
If a person looses faith then it's not their fault.
@@Former_Pastor This "sky wizard or sky daddy" joke gets really boring. Do you really think you are doing God a favour when you believe in Him? It is like most of you don't get the picture and don't know the predicament in which you are. The gist of the matter is that the world is going into ruins, and everyone is dying because everybody is a slave to SIN through Adam. We are sinners because through Adam, we were born in SIN, just like how slave children are still slaves to their parents slave masters, not because we sin. Because of this SIN, who is our master, we are forced to suppress the truth and do evil, living a life against our nature. The evil in the world y'all blame GOD for came this man. All this leads to death, sickness, and suffering. The SIN in our flesh governs us instead of letting God's Spirit, and all that leads to is death. GOD out of His way, although men want nothing to do with Him to save and set us free from the bondage of SIN our slave master, by paying for our freedom with the blood of HIS Son, and then adopting us into His family where we are free to live our original nature.This is the good news of the Bible. And what Christ teaches is to love God above all else and love our fellow human beings as ourselves. I don't know how difficult and irritating this is that people still get angry at God after all He has done for them. Your problem is, you don't understand God, that is why you say these things. If you've got any questions, ask, because it is to your own benefit, this earth will be destroyed whether you like it or not, whether you believe or not and you don't wanna be at the wrong side of things. It is pretty stupid to fight your only hope and chance of surviving. You can call Him a sky wizard all you want. It doesn't change the fact that He exists and owns everything and can do anything He wants.
"No True Scotsman" bullshit. Quickest way to become an atheist is to actually read the bible. Toilet Paper in print.
@@sirius_2dm Do you yourself understand God? You seem to claim to in your previous post. Why couldn’t God forgive Adam and Eve? And if it has to do with sin, and needing the blood of Jesus, why didn’t Jesus sacrifice himself and have his bad weekend right away and save humanity right then and there in the Garden of Eden? Why wait? Why brutally murder so many people and innocent animals in a great flood? Is he all-powerful and all-knowing or isn’t he? Why not spare all the animals and just “poof” the humans out of existence? Was every last person, man, woman and child on the planet not worth sparing or trying to save? Just Noah and a few others and two of every animal? Why bother collecting two of every animal to repopulate the earth, isn’t God powerful enough to just “poof” the animals back into the world afterward? How is a book written 2,000 years ago in an age of ignorance part a perfect plan? Is that really the best way to convince people of his existence, especially in the modern day? The silence of God is deafening. Only two options: There is no God, or if there is one, it isn’t the Christian idea of God and the bible is just a fairytale.
@@Ragnar-Lothbrok967 Yes, I understand God very well, to a degree where I can even explain to a kid. I see you have a lot of questions and want a "poofy" God, a fairytale God, that is not how God works man, then you turn around to call what you don't understand a fairytale, the irony of it.
Dan Barker is not someone to be taken seriously, he certainly is not an intellectual in the slightest, some guy who used to be a believer and now isnt.
Yea the christian believers are the smartest scientists and technological innovators in the world. They sent rockets to space by praying on sundays.
@@Zayn___varane Pretty sure many of the great scientists were Christian. I agree.
@@gsp3428You must be a troll if you have no legitimate supporting points to your bald-ass assertion and then follow that up with the “majority of scientists were Christian” argument.
@@gsp3428They did not use religious methods to innovate but scientific ones. What they then did after work is up to them, if they prayed or played tennis. The question is what methods are they using and why.
@@amatyaucran2214 I dont know how many, But I can say a good number or even majority of nobel prize winner in the fields of physics, chemistry, and biology have been theists.
Dan Barker was probably a false convert just like any other ex christians. There is a difference between true vs false converts. A Christian never walks away from faith in the first place.
Atheism is just a coping mechanism for people to deal with sin. Everyone knows the God whose image they are made in.
Theism is a coping mechanism for sin!!! You've got it backwards pal. All religious converts come from a place of trauma they can't explain.
@@joshuataylor3550 Christ came to take away sins. What are you talking about? It seems you have no clue or any idea about Christianity.
Also, theism is a broad spectrum. There are various religions in theism.
Thus, you misrepresented a lot in your comments. Thus, you simply strawmanned the entire position.
And before you call me for strawmaning your position. Let me tell you that -
If there is a God and you are still an atheist, then It is your opinion that says there is no deity. Not facts. Your opinion doesn't change the fact that God exists.
There are atheist who "think" that they are godless. That just states the psychological aspect of it, not factual reality in general.
That is why I'm not strawmaning with regard to my worldview.
Atheist avoid God for the same reason as a thief tries to avoid a police. - Moral Accountability.
The man says he was a preacher for 19 years and you are trying to say that he was a false convert to explain how he isn't a christian anymore? If anything, this is the worse argument ever for someone like that. If your God existed, maybe he wouldn't have walked away. It's always humans fault for being weak, never the fault of the almighty God that never do mistakes and just want to let us have free will, oh wait but then he let Barker walk away from him then?
Claims atheism is a coping mechanism.
Also: Has entire comment devoted to the massive copium of “no true Scotsman”.
Theist jokes really do just write themselves, ladies and gentlemen 😂
@@Theloneyat You say you’re not straw-manning atheism, then literally proceed to demonstrate it starting with “if god exists”.
Don’t get me wrong, the rest of your premise is flawed, too, but you literally said a whole sack of jack shit by explaining atheists are coping _if_ god exists _when the whole point is you haven’t even gotten past confirming god does exist._
Again, theist comedians don’t even have to try, y’all are just that good.
You are deluded, I hope mighty Allah help you. You are deviating.
الحمدلله على نعمة الإلحاد
@@arabicatheist8507 Praise be to God for his great blessings
Allah who? You first need to present evidence that something like that even exists before we can take it seriously.
@@ZlaRah if only Steven Hawkins could come back and tell you guy’s how sorry he is.
@@rezahabibpour4320 Classic religious extremism. Instead of actually presenting some sort of evidence that supports your claim, you bring up Stephen Hawking? The only thing you can do is provide claims with absolutely no evidence or justification. Emotional factors can cloud judgement. A cloud is hanging over your critical thinking faculties.
EVEN I SAW AND MET GOD JESUS CHEIST IN REAL WITH HIS BLESSING AND HE IS MY WITNESS..
I WAS HINDU BEFORE BUT BECAME ETERNAL CHRISTIAN.TRULY BIBLE IS LIVING WORD OF THE GREAT LIVING GOD✝️❤️
ITA WRITTEN IN BIBLE :
"IN LAST DAYS MANY WILL LEAVE BIBLE AND EVEN THE ELECT "
TRUTH IS IN FEONR OF YOU ✝️
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Jesus is the Messiah. The Bible is God's Word. There is jugment for sinners who don't repent of their unbelief.
Yes. All fictional and imaginary.
Why would an allegedly loving and merciful God judge a relatively tiny being like a human who is so limited in knowledge and power so harshly for failing to be convinced by a book written 2,000 years ago. Is that really a perfect plan? He could have saved or forgiven mankind immediately if he wanted to, right in the Garden of Eden. None of it makes any sense. Absolutely no need for so many lives to be lost, flooding the earth etc, all senseless. Jesus could have sacrificed himself by having his bad weekend right at the start of the story. And God butchering so many people in the great flood is pretty darn evil considering he’s supposed to be all powerful, he could have just snapped his fingers and made all the people and animals just disappear. And why butcher so many animals too. Or why not just start humanity with the people he spared from the flood, everything before them was apparently a waste of time since he decided to press the reset button the way he did. He’s supposed to be all-knowing? None of it makes any sense.
A delusion...no evidence...whatsoever
Don Barker reminds me of Judah... Whole life he was with Lord Jesus but in last days he was fooled by Demonic lies...As he betrayed Lord Jesus Christ .
√ He also reminds me of Peter as he denied Lord Jesus Christ inspite knowing truth, but He repented and came back to Lord Jesus Christ ..
√ He also reminds of the two thief on Cross... One believed and one inspite knowing truth rejected Lord Jesus Christ... Still He accepted Peter with all His heart ..How Great He is..
Sadly again the biggest deceiver of the world Satan the Devil deceived Don Barker and his end is in Lake of fire...
Never do Judah, thief on Cross and Don Barker mistake and don't give oppurtunity to devil... GOD bless you
✝️❤️
Out of all of these debaters, David was the best. His arguments were rational and made sense. He explained scientifically and he explained God in the spectrum of Universe rather than blaming some religions & their believers or giving some stupid experiences & examples of debater's own life. Debate was on God not the religions or religious people. All the other debaters either explained what they believe or called the opposition ignorant, strange and delusional for their beliefs. Nobody gave a single sane scientific reason or any sane evidence of why God is a delusion. They were lacking evidence just because they don't understand What and how God is. The debater who blamed misery of the world unto religion by saying that most miserable people on Earth are the ones who believe in God. He just need to study history that most of the wars are not fought because of the religion. America dropped atom bombs on Japan as a result Japan was in miserable state, so did that misery happen coz Japanese were religious? (Btw japan was and is atheist), America invaded Iraq and killed millions, so Iraqis were in miserable state, bcoz of America or beacuse Iraqis are religious? Jews of Israel believe they are God chosen people and they occupied Palestine, beacuse they believe Palestine is the land God chosed for them, so they are genociding Palestinians since 1948 and Palestine is in miserable condition just because Palestinians are religious? Hunger and poverty rate is so high in America and people are in miserable state beacuse they are religious? Britain invaded Africa, enslaved Africans, cut their hands so Africa was in miserable state bcoz Africans were religious? Afghanistan was invaded by America and Soviet Union, as a result millions of Afghanistanis were killed and were in miserable state just because they were religious? America & others today eating Africa's resources and Africa is in miserable state coz africans are religious? On the contrary Saudi and UAE are the least crime rated countries coz they are religious? Or Arab nations have most of the world's resources (oil, gas) (that America is hungry about) so you think Arabs are so lucky coz they are religious? You must be delusional to believe that misery in the world is bcoz of Religion. It is all the game of System. Game of politics and power. All the poverty, hunger, instability, worst health conditions, insecurity are the products of Capitalism. That's a "debate of System" not the debate of: "religious people are in worst condition coz they believe in God so why would God put them in such state when they are the beleivers of God and vice versa". Seriously?! That's your argument that why God doesn't exist?!These so called Democrats capitalists and poltical leaders want people (whether religious or non religious) to be miserable to fill their pockets, not the God! and they will be sure punish in the Hell. God has told us to implement the system of God on Earth in which everyone lives in freedom, harmony and that will be the duty of his believers (who have established his System) to make sure that everyone gets the food, healthcare, shelter and human rights unlike a Capitalist system in which elites and Capitalists only cares about GDP and their economy no matter who dies of hunger and poverty. They don't care about distribution of resources. They only care about production.
And you gonna ask me name one System of God that has implemented such system in which everyone was prosperous, free of poverty and hunger. So yeah that's Islamic System of Khilafah that ruled the world from 622 to 1924 AD. And this system also ended coz in the end their beleivers started compromising laws and rules of the God. But still their religion (rituals and worshipping) is alive but not the system. Islam is actually a social, political, economical system of God including religion. That's another debate. But atleast have some knowledge of world before claiming such things.
Also the debaters who were representing Hinduism and Sikhism were more interested in proving their religions right rather than proving why God does exist. Hinduism seems confused to me coz they are like modern version of Christianity who allows everything in their religion surrounding the belief that God is love. Nothing is fixed in their religion, seemed like a philosophy more. They are ready to accept atheism too but not Abrahamic religions for whatever reason. As far i know Hinduism, it is more like spiritual thing like Buddhism rather than being a proper religion. As the matter of religion only Islam and Judaism are those religions that wouldn't dare to change a single thing in their theology. And in Quran (Islamic holy book), God commands his believers to establish and implement his System. In which they have no right to change a single law.
And I ask you a simple question if someone kills your loved one would you punish him or not? Should you be called an evil for punishing that murderer? Why aren't you "loving enough" to let go of that murderer? Because this world is a test. Those who commit wrong must get the Punishment. In hell, We will be only punish if we do evil. God doesn't like to put someone in hell but he will put that person in hell who will put someone in this world in hell. These scientists couldn’t even cross the next galaxy yet and they talk about proximities and probabilities of Universe so confidently based on their hypothesis when they failed to explain why there is not even a single flaw in Universe or in the creation of God and what is the purpose of Life. Nobody gave a single reason why God doesn't exist or how science can replace God. Just beacuse you can't see God doesn't mean God doesn't exist. Some decades ago you didn't even see the Blackholes, white holes etc but they do exists too. If a person centuries ago told you that there is something in Universe called blackholes you wouldn't had believed him coz you had not seen Black holes yet. But coz you didn't see yet will not deny their existence. Then i don't know from where peope get the guts to deny the probability of God's existence at all. Btw about Black holes muslims used to believe them (not by the name of blackholes but the concept, function and physical appearance) coz they are written in their book Quran (1450 y/o) & some Muslim scientists researched on that stuff.
Thank you for reading this long article of mine. I hope to see more debaters like David in Oxford Union in future.
All Gods are imaginary.
@@FlandiddlyandersFRS you are imaginary. And one day this imagination will die. Then don't cry
@@taetae...... How old are you? 5?
@@FlandiddlyandersFRS older than your brain ever started to think
@@taetae...... Obviously not.