Hub motor vs. mid drive motor - Which one is best for ebikes
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- Mid drive motor vs hub drive ebike or emtb. Which one is the best motor for electric bikes. Hub motor ebike or Mid drive emtb? Compare hub motor electric bike or mid drive ebike
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emtb options at Competitive Cyclist - alnk.to/5Q2o8Qb
0:00 Introduction
1:02 Introduction
3:48 Cost
4:23 Weight
5:52 Smoothness and ride quality Advantage - mid drive
6:48 Power
8:48 Durability and maintenance
10:05 Durability and maintenancAdvantage-hub motor
10:55 Throttle compatibility Advantage-hub motor
11:38 Bike compatibility Advantage-hub motor
12:48 Regenerative braking Advantage-hub motor
13:02 Range
13:51 Conclusion - Sport
I'm always a bit reluctant to listen to some gear head talk about his views on ebikes, but I must say this fellow was a pleasant surprise and the video and info was top notch. Thank you.
😂😂😂
Fantastic primer without the eye-rolling technical jargon. Every e-bike shopper should watch this. Great job!
I really appreciate that. It takes time to understand these concepts and make sense of them.
@@EMTBReview Thank you for this Video! I am just beginning to learn about E bikes. This is a Super Start! 2 Thumbs UP! Subscribed!
Yes! For my next ebike, I want a hub motor with a torque sensor because I don't need the advantage of a mid drive. I'm not biking up mountains. And I don't want the extra stress that a mid drive puts onto my drive chain for the sake of low maintenance and simplicity.
But I'm tired of my cadence sensor ebike because I feel like I am helping the motor with my pedalling rather than the motor helping me.
Something to consider is that a hub drive requires a great deal more wheel maintenance. Not only is the rear wheel carrying most of your weight and what you carry, but also the heavier motor itself. It is doing this on much shorter spokes that aren't laced and close to radial, so they loosen a lot easier amd have a greater tendency to poke holes in tubes.
I am absorbing everything out here about e bikes, this was VERY HELPFUL!!!
Thanks for an excellent tutorial.
Thank you! this by far is the BEST and most clear explanation about ebike motors I come accross!🙏🏻😊
Well done. The element you did not mention is the mid-drive reducing unsprung weight which is going to make a big difference on the rear wheel handing rough terrain.
This is the clearest and most well balanced review of the different systems I have come across. Very well delivered thanks.
THANK you Sir! You did an excellent job in explaining the differences between Mid-drive and Hub motors for E-Bikes. Your video here makes lots of sense on a rather complex subject > 🙂
Whoa, just found your channel. I've been following your RC Review channel. Cool to see you've got another one. Always great info in your videos. Thanks
Great video, thanks. I love that you covered durability and maintenance, which is often overlooked.
Thank you for the information. You made my decision easy. Hub all the way because I'm an older man that will use the throttle more than peddling except when in peddle assist.
Glad I could help. I learned quite a bit while doing the research for this video. Fascinating differences between the two.
In England and most of Europe we are only allowed to have legally 250 watt motor and no throttle and a maximum speed of 20 mph so it would be interesting to see if this changes as sometimes normal bikes go faster than that ridden by more experienced riders
Top quality info without the frills or bias!
Thanks for this 15 minutes of extremely valuable eye opening content!
My pleasure! Will try to do more
Hello Friend, and thank you for this video! This is a wonderful and informative video! I have never owned any kind of ebike and I was just about to buy a DIY kit but thank goodness I watched this first!
You have shown me the exact type of motor I need for my bike and the type of riding I do.
I gave you a like and I just subscribed. I do appreciate your info!
Best regards!
An Ohio recumbent rider wanting to cruise 100 miles or more on paved road.
I really enjoyed this, good job.
Well-done, Francis. You did a good job of staying unbiased.
I don't mind the cadence sensored hub motor bikes; they just take a bit more of a technical mind to put them to good use. You're right that they don't feel as natural (compared to a regular bike). After a fellow goes through that learning curve, it doesn't matter any more. My wife and daughter didn't like it though; they went into it with the expectation of it being like a regular bike, so they were disappointed.
Great feedback. Thank you.
Super high quality content. You can reach Electrek heights :)
Great content as always, thanks & congrats!
At 7:20 you say that most mid drive motors peak out at 250w. Better recheck your specs.
Really good information, counter intuitive and based on recent tech advamces, delivered with a lot of common sense and very straight forward. Great stuff. I have been on both hub and mid drive bikes, what he says makes sense of all the apparent contradictions
Excellent, useful, and very clearly explained. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! When i learn something when creating my own videos, I know it's worthwhile.
In this vidro, you give the clearest most objective explanation of the differences between hub and mid-drive e-bikes that I have seen anywhere. 👍👍 and thank you. Your channel is the best ebike review channel I have seen yet. Keep up the great work.
Glad it was helpful! Very kind words!
This is the most informative video I've seen 😊
If you compare a 500watt hub motor and a 500watt mid drive motor you will find that the mid drive has a lot more torque.
Then they are not the same power. If two outputs are the same, you cannot tell the difference.
@@difflocktwowhat they are saying is that most 500 watt hub drives will peak around 1200. The same mid-drive will peak somewhere around 8 or 900, but the hub drive will have a very limited range in which it can access its 80nm's of torque while the mid-drive might have as much as 120nm's of torque and available over a much wider range. The difference in hillclimbing ability is huge.
Motor hub feito para andar em ruas retas, sem declive, motor mid é feito para ruas com declive , um motor hub consome mais bateria , entao preciza de uma bateria maior e mais pesada! Um mid nao preciza de uma bateria maior, e ainda esta dentro das normas das bicicletas que podem ser comercializadas dentro da lei !
Dnt matter, most have dual hub anyway
@@MHH3180 The system with more power will perform better. If I put 1200 W to the ground, it is going to be faster than if I put 900 W to the ground.
In the real world, we see that hubs have the same or better range than mid drive.
Solar race cars use direct drive hub drives because it is the most efficient drive.
Motor torque is motor torque, it does not matter if it is in the hub or somewhere else. This is a matter of motor design, not of motor location.
Great video! Thank you very much.
Glad it helped!
Nice video! love your approach to this!
Glad you liked it! Had to think long and hard about it.
I really enjoyed this video and learned a lot. Well done, Francis! Thank you. I had a 500 watt hub motor ebike first. I then went to a 750 watt mid-drive. Both had cadence sensors. I thought I would LOVE the mid-drive bike a lot more, especially as it was more than twice the price, but sadly I don't.
I've JUST put out more money than ever before on a Stromer ST5 ABS. 650 watt, 850 watt at peak performance, hub motor with torque sensor. This thing is a rocket, including for climbing hills. It's whisper-quiet, super powerful and feels totally natural. The power delivery is so smooth. This bike wins hands-down.
High end.
Hub motor
Torque sensor
I'm now selling my mid-drive.
:-)
For commuter bikes, hub motors with torque sensors are better for the money. For emtb, mid-drive is key for weight balance and maneuverability
Can you have both a mid drive motor and and a rear hub motor working together? I'm looking for insane acceleration to get up any hill, I was looking at the eunorau flash, Ariel grizzly, and Vulcan OG. I like grizzly and the Vulcan, don't know which is better of the two, but I like the flash has the mid drive, and might be able to have a rear motor also, I'm not sure how that acceleration or setup would compare to the other two? What do you think?
So i am thinking buying a e bike the price is around 1000 price and i was thinking hub bike.What do you recommend?
Thanks for creating and sharing this outstanding content. You rock.
I appreciate that! Hopefully, this will be useful in the future.
@@EMTBReview Maye the force
Best video on the subject. Perfect summary.
Glad it was helpful! That is very much appreciated.
Wow. Thank you for this. It really helps me.
i like the bafan 750watt very much, 3 years no break down.
Good education video with a great delivery. Well done.
Thanks
So nice of you
Well done, thanks for sharing!
Hell yeah, using a drone for some of your video content. Excellent. Somebody "get's it". Good vid on ebikes too. Curious. Seem expensive, but do they deliver for what you pay? Any kind of small ebike or moped always struggle when it comes to dealing with hills. But a great downhill. lol.
Handy video - thanks!😊
Handy video - thanks!
Very good info. Thanks!
Thank you. Helped us as well understand these options.
Perfect presentation, thank you sir
Exactly what I was looking for--an unbiased, reasoned comparison between ebike drive trains. Well done!
Glad you liked it! CZcams is a great learning tool so we try to do our part.
Really good video, you give enough to understand but don’t go too in-depth with each category. On top of that, you pick a winner instead of being on the fence with everything.
Rrrrright? Too many are on the fence about every attribute. There's often a winner and it's good to outline why one should use the alternative.
Nice video mate❤
Glad you enjoyed it
Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid drive kits can be fitted to almost any bicycle, I fit a couple of them to Trek bicycles and also to ICE and Catrike recumbent trikes. When using the optional throttle of the Tongsheng the motor drives the chain but the pedals don't rotate.
Hi. Excellent video but you forgot to mention someting.Riding uphill on some hub drive motor bike you can select the gearing plus throttle & pedal assist!!! 🎉😂❤😊
Thanks for a great video explaining the difference. I have just got myself a cheap basic hub rear drive bike 250w. I find the motor is helpful but annoying it feels like someone is pushing me from behind then dropping off then pushing again - I am used to motorbikes and mountainbikes . The bike has no throttle and limited to EU 25km so that is my first change - I pulled the wiring out and it has no option for a throttle so I will be upgrading the controller and display and adding the throttle for more control. My ideal would be motorbike style interaction with the pedaling to help out when it gets bogged down on hills.
Yeah, hub motors can be annoying since most of them don't have a crank torque sensor so they're a bit on/off based on pedal cadence.
I'm so glad that we now have hub motor with torque sensor now because now, rather than having to spend $4000+ to get the ebike I want. Now, I can get the ebike I want for about $2000.
Thankyou for your patient and well thought out and wide ranging topics coverage with CAVEATS (love those!). Pls could you advice me which is better for me - I weight about 285lb - and looking for bike to ride to work and back - 6miles each way - GREAT JOB KEEP IT UP
Mid drive for your, sir. The back wheel already is heavy with the motor. There will be a lot of tear on only that back wheel. With a mid drive, you are dispensing the weight along both wheels. Plus, any hills you go through will have trouble with a hub drive because, let's be honest, you way A LOT. Therefore, go for a mid drive...... OR, lose the weight.
Thanks - Really appreciate honesty and straight to the point
Pls could you tell me any benefits of using light powered emtb vs full power
One advantage of a mid-drive is less unsprung weight. A heavy hub wheel cannot go up and down as fast as a light one. So it may not follow the terrain as well. Also, powerwise, the BBSHD Bafang is also 1000 watts and you can use a throttle.
That is quite true!!! That and the center of front rear balance make hub motors unusable for real mountain biking
So things to consider on the weight. The other than a possible battery in the frame area the weight is at the rear so lifting the front could be easier? For instance I use to wheelie the front wheel up to get in the elevator at the old apartment. Still do this in the house sometimes for ease of nonviability around corners. (well not any more with my mid drive and battery) Also in my case - Less "sprung" weight on my full suspension frame makes it feel more like a Natural & maneuverable MTB. The suspension can cause its own little gremlins as far as chain tension and alignment.....
On the noise - this is a good point however the crunchy crunch of the chain can be more annoying. And if in a trail getting dirty oh boy.. I have had the chain jump off in the worst places. Heck if it was a hub drive I still could have made it up that hill chain or no chain LOL! Or through that mud puddle.
As some reference to my knowledge I currently have the Bafang 1000w mid drive and 52v2ah battery and hate the range and the chain issues. Going to go through a lot of cassettes at this rate to. (Still in my gotta go fast years).
I do not have a hub kit yet but did order a 2000w rear hub kit from Kirb e bike. I am hoping this will help increase range (during commuting) I do average 35-45KM/h in traffic. Most of the time it is me over the bafang in power since PAS mode 3-4 will not go all the way through the 8 Spd gear set. if I am trying to add as much manual power as I can then get the motor to get the speed (hence 52v)! Because the motor is still putting out say 350w even though I "feel" the gears this is a waste of energy. It also forces you to chew up gears in order to get to a speed that even regular cyclist will do.
When you say "torque sensor" is this the same as the 12 magnet pickup for Pedal assist? The new hub kit I just bought has this type of thing. Every one I talk to says not to install as it is very sensitive.... it is a 2000w kit after all :😂
Great video. Torque sensor first I heard about that.
Thanks 👍
great job
Damn, didn't realise one of my fave RC channels also covers e-bikes!
Rrrrrright?
I own each one of them, MTB.
The HUB drive is more fun with the throttle, it's more powerful uphill and IT's NOT noisier (maybe quieter) than the mid-drive. The battery lasts slightly less on stress (pulling another bike) and the overall quality of these bikes is FAR inferior to mid-drive bikes so if you want to do proper MTB the hub drive doesn't have such good bikes.
The MID-DRIVE usually offers better quality bikes (far more expensive), the battery lasts more, easy to upgrade or change wheels/tires but you need to pedal to move, not same power, a bit noisier (Lapierre Overvolt), and it is not as fast.
Each weight 25kg.
If I had to choose 1 I'd go with the cheaper HUB drive.
For mountain biking, hub motor is rough since it just makes the bike severely imbalanced. Commuting, no problem.
Hub motors seem to roar at high speed. Mid-drive motors, the most standard one is the Levo motor or the Shimano EP8. Both are pretty quiet at full speed.
I have a question. I think the gear ratio of the sprocket combined with the hub drive is not enough.
Do you think that if the gear ratio is expanded more significantly, the utilization value of hub drives will be higher?
For example, what do you think is the difference between using 300% gear ratio for 7 steps and using 500% for 12 steps?
I am a gearbox developer who mounts the center. My gearbox has a gear ratio of 606% in 15 steps.
Of course, this gearbox is more than necessary to combine with the hub motor.
I can make 548% gear ratio for 10 steps. I have a plan to produce a bicycle with this gearbox and hub drive.
I don't know what kind of performance it will be because I haven't combined it with the hub motor yet.
I wonder how much more efficient it is to provide enough gear ratio for hub drives.
Fantastic, I'm keen to learn more about hybrid motorcycles, how could a Hub Motor could be integrated with a Honda Super Cub (Gas+Battery), for increased torque ?
the New Mahle hub motor looks real interesting 55 nm of torque, supposed to be coming to MTBs soon
I got the mid drive on my townia 5i this is a good fit for me
Mid drive for mtn. biking and hub drive for primarily road bikes. I've been rolling that way for years. My road bikes I have made use front hub DD motors with no PAS, just a throttle with cruise control, which for me allows for a much more natural pedal feel at the higher cadence associated with road riding. I have ridden them from 9k to sea level all over the west. I tried a mid drive torque PAS road bike and hated it but wouldn't do without it on my eMTB. Can't stand cadence PAS.
Yeah, it's all about the bottom bracket torque sensors for both types of motors. e-mtb definitely needs mid-drive for front-rear balance.
whanker
very interesting 👍👍👍👍
Mid drive motors put a lot of torque on the transmission and wear out more often the chsin , pinion cassette and chainring but are more efficient .... for a commuting on asphalt bike I would go for a rear hub motor and mtb mid drive better
Absolutely!!!
The only downside middrive motors is you have to have a higher quality drive gear and chain. That brings cost up as well
A reasonable assessment. I find that mids are more noisy than hubs
At similar power levels, yes.
1. Bafang middrive peaks at 1500watts, it can break the chain if you are not careful
2. you don't have to pedal when using a throttle
Sounds great! Incidentally, even with 500 watts, it's easy to break a chain. If one shifts under full power, the shifting derailling of the chain can blow up the chain. links.
I like hub drives. I'm hoping I get 5-10 years out of my new ebike. Hub motors are bulletproof. I ride mostly short trips to do shopping. Sometimes I dont want to pedal. 😁
Mid drive is priority with the mounting changing all the time. As the bike gets older you will not be able to get replacements parts. A hub motor can be replaced with a different brand of hub motor.
With mid drive motor does one have to constantly pedal?
Basically, there are two types of people, those who want to pedal with assist or only pedal when they feel it. Mid bike you have still to do the cadence. So simple.
I think there’s a lot of people in between. And people may change their habits once they start biking regularly. The key to paddling with assist is having a motor with a torque sensor cause that makes peddling a lot more natural feeling.
@@EMTBReview you talk about torque sensor, is the Chinese jargon called PAS sensor? Thanks
My husband has a hub drive ebike with a 1000 watt motor front and back. The peddle assist and throttle has started to become hit and miss at present and will sometimes work or just stop working for no reason at all and when that happens it's one hell of a heavy bike to peddle so no different than if a chain breaks on my mid drive bike
Hub motor with feet pedalling gives you two wheel drive with better traction while mid drive only gives you one wheel drive.
I live in a very rainy, windy and hilly country.
I need a bike that can go 7km for my morning commute and I would like it to be easy enough so I dont sweat. Would the hub assist me uphill and against the wind?
Does the hub help with the starting phase that is when you are accelersting or does it just help you maintain speed?
A hub assist motor will definitely be enough. Go for a 750watt motor for best results. Class 3 bike is good too so it can go 28mph top speed instead of 20 mph
The reason the hub motor has more torque is your spinning a large diameter. Because they can build the hub motor as large as they want to increase torque. Bldc motors are smaller diameter. So it has less torque. That is what the gears are for (example: 11t sprocker motors 44t on wheel 4:1 mechanical advantage.) Hub motors have every few ways to make more speed or torque. Battery, controller, and bigger hub are your three main ways.
Mote power, not torque most importantly, hub drives lose both power and torque when you need it most. No motor likes being slowed. It turns power in to heat. With a mid-drive you can downshift to keep motor rpm's higher and access its power over a much larger range.
One more important point: if you mount a mid drive (e.g. BBS02) on your old mountain bike, you reduce ground clearance and risk damaging the motor in the trails. About power, I would disagree that hub has more. A BBSHD mid drive has 1000W…
Best choice in my opinion would be both and I’m surprised nobody has offered that
Not a bad idea. Mid-drive for torque and hub for high speed. The benefit doesn't justify the cost and complexity though for most.
#7 I HATE relying on throttle on my hub drive ebike. The chainring is so big the bike is so heavy, makes fatbiking so hard. Hills too. Looking to change to a smaller chainring to help get it going without the motor.
I’m 65 with bad knees. Which is best for me? I need the exercise but which one is less stress on my knees
Hub motor commuter, city bike for sure with throttle. Hub motors have more power and an optional throttle is good to get you started from a stop or an incline.
Having torque sensor on the bike is very good. The new Specialize Globe Haul bikes are an excellent choice. czcams.com/video/K7MJjlk9OKA/video.html
As even a 35 year old with occasional knee issues myself, I've had to rely on the throttle on my ebike for some seasons.
A hub motor with a torque sensor instead of a cadence sensor would be my recommendation. A cadence sensor can be just fine, but it sometimes makes me feel like the amount of pedaling work that I want to put in doesn't line up with what the motor is putting out so I either feel like I'm pedaling just going through the motions just to trigger the cadence sensor, or I'm lowering my pedal assist level and downshifting a few gears to finally feel like my pedalling is contributing, but it often cuts my speed down by 30%.
This issue that I've described might be alleviated if the ebike had higher gear options than a 7-speed, but at that point, we're veering into mountain bike territory.
? Is a hub motor more powerful compared to a direct drive motor for bicycle 🚲
Also you did not mention diy mid drives, bafang and tongsheng et al.
What about building a mountain bike with a front and rear hub
Hub 4 Life !
6:33 I have already 12KW Enduro e bike my HUB motor do not have this roar sound even on high speed the trick is in the controller. Cheapest controller when you drive a bike with a HUB have noise like rocks are rolling, but must expensive controllers like Sabvoton and etc switch between 3 phase (on HUB coil) the diagram wave is more smooth and that kill the noise. Off road - mid drive motor
for a city HUBs are the best. Also i not agree with you 'mid drive motor is more quiet than HUBs' add the noise from chain movement and gears the can be noise more than HUBs. For me the HUBs are the best one because no need maintenance or replace on gear part (motor) like Bafang
Middrive motors have 3500 watt options
have a rear hub motor 750 with a rear casette 11 28( 29x2.1 inch wheel tire) and i ride only by use pedal assist !!! I have climb mountains over 4000ft and often ride over 3000ft !! ...Use batterie 48v 2X15A and manage over 110mil distance !!! So my conclusion is that using always your feet the difference of hub and mid is very small !! And I am talking about almost 100% riding in asphalt roads ! Am i correct ?
As long as the roads are not very steep and the rider has a lot of momentum, hub motors can climb. But when the roads/trails get very steep as in over 10% or 15% sustained grades, hub motor bikes have little chance of making it up. And if the rider is heavy and not very powerful, much worse.
@@EMTBReview For sure i have strong legs and i use them a lot when i ride at steep roads with around 10 to 20% sustained (asphalt) grade at over 3000ft altitude helping motor with my legs ! My bike weights 56 p and me with all my gear and second batterie 200p !! Bike manage it very well !!! So i believe that you all must mention that when you compare hub and mid !!! Thank you !!!😀
You stated that hub motors start at 750 watts and go up. Actually, they start at 250 watts. When you were talking about motor weight, were you comparing a 750 watt hub motor with a 250 watt mid-drive? Or were you just referencing that fat-tire Aventon next to you? I'm a bit confused here. BTW, I'm a roadie and would only be interested in a lightweight road or commuter-style bike. (e.g. not a fat-tire, not a mountain bike, not a cargo bike). Aside from that, I thought you covered a lot of really useful information - thanks!
Ya his comparisons don't make sense.
CAN YOU ADD A TORQUE SENSOR TO A HUB DRIVE?
Best comparison video I’ve seen yet. You’ve made my choice so much simpler. Thanks so much!
Glad it was helpful! I haven’t seen this information outlined like this, so I made the effort
Hub drives can be a drag; the motor makes the back end heavy; if you have a hard tail; then the bike hurts if you go over a bump unexpectedly! ouch; get a shocked seat post at least! The newer mid-drive motors from Bafang have a motor cut-out switch for 2022-23 models that will cut out motor power during shifts (amazing) and it works great. I have a Accomile Cola Bear with a 750w motor and it has the cut-out; there are never any issues with power on the chain, and the chain does not fall off due to power on during shifting. This motor is inexpensive compared to all the other motors out there, and a better design too; better than Bosch now! Forget belts, and forget the issues usually associated with Mid-drives. My Cola Bear climbs hills like a Bear; very fast.
Hub drives are not appropriate for mountain biking. Great for commuters though, especially when paired with a crank torque sensor. Good performance on a budget.
If I'm on the trails with one of my hub motor fat tire mountain bikes and I get beat by a turbo levo it's because either there is a lot of jumps, or the other guys just that much better of a Rider than me. I'm not quite as agile but I have so much more power and grip.
A big, powerful hub motor can come in first on the fire road climbs. Tech climbs though or any descent, it will be at a disadvantage.
@@EMTBReview you would be very surprised what a purpose built real fat tire mountain bike can do on a black diamond.(not taking Rad Rover, and Himiways and Juice bikes). I have this one, it's a big 500w, that will peak at 1040w in PAS 1. It's ridiculous, you just point it and start paddling it'll go up just about anything no matter how technical, my other bike has one of those new 1000-watt Bafangs peaks at around 1550w, it has a lot more power over all then the 500 w, but isn't as good in the woods, the 500 just kicks like a mule from a dead stop, till about 13 miles an hour and is noticeably lighter. But one of these days I'll pick up a Trek or Specialized, I'm noticing they're starting to come down a little bit and price.
Point 5 Power doesn't really work that way.
It is due to the general construction and the laws. In both cases I can buy motors that have 250W or 1000W.... or more.... or less. And even these values are not correct because they are of average value. In most countries, the law allows 250 medium power. So many mid-engines are officially 250W. However, they still support much higher. A TQ120 as an example almost 1000W. And not every hub motor automatically delivers a lot of power. Some go to 1000W, others only 400W. So how do you compare that?
The real question would be which motor is better with the same performance? Because with both engines you can buy similar performance. And that's where the mid-engine has advantages due the gearbox and the free running independent of the rotation of the rear wheel.
If mid drives are quieter, why are Sur-ron and Talaria mid drives so noisy?
I still dont know what i want. Ha was wanting a mid motor but now i dont know. I have a cheap mountain bike so idk. Ill be driving semi long distances in all flat terrain.
I'm waiting for the update on the fezzari tim Peak e-bike 😂
Man it’s the weirdest thing , you look and sound just like this guy that has a rc channel that I watch from time to time. Must be your doppelgänger
Oh Great, I just saw an ad saying eBikes are increasing in price June 10, 2024. Joy.
This is definitely happening. US Govt tarrifs.
I usually wear earphones, so noise doesn't really bother me
Most mid-drive bikes have torque sensors, the hub-motor bikes have cadence sensors.
Absolutely true.
Hub motors can be lighter than mid drives. Just use a geared hub not direct drive.
Great general commentary, But. ... #1 he needs to point out that the entire "regenerative braking" scam on hubdrives is bunk, especially on brushless motors which constitute 95% of hubdrives these days. Realworld range gain is 2--6% MAX, with serious issues possible in electronics damage long term. ... #2 is the "handling" advantge old wivestail rumour of mid-drives, even in MTB... the mass bias to the rear wheel is where every MTB rider is trying to acheive, ESPECiALLY downhill, when handling REALLY counts. Watch any pro racer descending, he/she will be hanging bcak on the seat, even almost behind it. Just look at serious GT and racecars, ie all F1 cars, Porsche, Ferrari, etc.. rear mass-bias is totally dominant. Why?.. Grip and handling. There is so much BS crock revolving around the advantage of hubdrives, but this weight bias one is the biggest crock of all. I cant believe he's fallen for it. Cheers guys.
Geared Motor (bafang gears inside) = Most torque Not quite same Top end Speed = More Efficient on starts and stops but less on continued high power
Hub Brushless (noGears inside) = Less Torque but more high end speed = More Efficient on high continues speed but less on starts and stops
Mid Drives ..Much bigger impact on what mid drive you get ....common mid drive in stores not that powerful ....However Mid Drive that is top end £800 can do massive torque those will go up really really steep hills but not that fast ...where both geared and hub would struggle ....
Then there other last ..MID CHAIN DRIVE ...so that more Emotorbikes ..that just Mid Motor with gears driving chain no pedals ....those best of all motor drive systems so far...but more stress
Amazing analysis and breakdown. Thank you.
A major advantatage of mid is greater range due to utilization of gears. Otherwise you covered all aspects.
Absolutely!!
Low wattage mid drive motors cannot get the speed of a hub motor that's why the Stromer speed pedelecs have hub motors.
500 watts?
My MID-DRIVE peaks at 1300 watts and goes 40mph , that's on the low end
Both hub and mid-drives can go northward of 1000-3000 watts
We're talking box-stock OEM bikes. Doesn't make sense to account for bolt-on motors where there is no limit really.
It is a myth that mid-drives are harder on drive trains. No legal e-bike motor exerts more power than ONE human arm. You will go further, faster, so they will wear out sooner, but still go the same distance. BTW, mid-drive motors are now as low as $250 purchased retail, one at a time.
If you live where there are a lot of hills, hub drives really struggle and can even over heat to the point of controller loss and magnet delamination. For instance, my friend's 750 watt hub drive is fast, but it will not climb even a bike on ramp anywhere near as fast as a 250 watt Ananda mid-drive I have on my showroom floor.
Regenerstive braking, unless it can be turned on and off, is both bad for the motor and under most circumstances, reduces range. On both systems, coasting is important to extending range. You cannot regenerate faster than you coast. Just like in a car, regen is more for braking than regenerating.
What you're saying is absolutely false. Mid-drive mtb motors mostly put out 500-600 watts peak... for hours on end. Most fit humans can put out 100-200 watts. Add those two together and that goes through the drivetrain.
On hub drive motors, non of of the motor power goes through the drivetrain. Soooo, the mid-drives put more wear on the drivetrain.
@@EMTBReview @EMTBReview wattage is a measure of power consumed. Torque is potential. 500 watts does not make an e-bike go five times as fast, but as a matter of fact, during The TDF riders average between 200 & 300 watts all day (900 calories per hour). Touring cyclists 150-200 watts all day. Average cyclists of 140#'s just naturally churn 94nm's of torque.
I can't believe that of all you have reviewed you haven't ridden anything with a watt meter. It is really hard to access full wattage on any torque sensing motor (without modifying the firmware). At 15mph, most are churning between 100 and 125 watts (some fat bikes are higher, but they are hard to get to maintain significant speed over much distance without running out of battery). This is a good example of why a 250 watt mid-drive can out climb a 1k watt hub drive. I have an Ananda M100 in my shop right now that out climbs my buddy's 750 watt BBSO2b and both just plain walk away from our chef's 750 geared hub drive climbing out of our steep Mississippi River bluffs (for that matter, so does my 350 TSDZ2).