WoF and Worldbuilding | Wings of Fire Discussion
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- Worldbuilding in Wings of Fire is very... flawed, to say the least. So I'm gonna go over why that is, and how I personally would fix it!
All character bases in this video are from the Wings of Fire Wiki!
-Clearsight, Umber, and Sora by SpaceshipEarth
-Tribe bases by Joy Ang
-Graphic novel art by Mike Holmes
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Introduction
0:57 Tribe Designs
3:41 History
5:37 Society
8:29 The Focus Problem
11:17 How to fix it
12:43 Fanart and Outro - Zábava
My headcannon is that after dragons burned human cities and stuff the things that remained buried in the ashes were found by dragons and were adopted by them, explaining why dragons have bigger versions of armory,daggers,spears etc.
Ha! Proving dragons would just be primal tribal primitives barbarians If it weren't for us!
@@lemieux-z8933 YESSS
There's a book series about owls called Guardians of Ga'Hoole. Before they had blacksmiths they used weapons made of ice. When blacksmithing came they made battle claws, weapons they wore over their talons. I wish Tui had done this with dragons.
Guardians of Ga'hool is the perfect example of how to write a medieval setting with animals , Tui should take some notes
Ah, a Guardians of Ga'Hoole enjoyer. But yes. Notice how little the world is compared to Wingsof Fire (we know like, 3 "countries" or areas like that) and yet the world building is just so good. I never read the books, but it sure is creative, even in the film.
@@JpodTM The film was very good in everything, and still stand up very well to this day !
It's so hard these days to find a fellow Guardian of Ga'Hoole fan. That stuff is very underrated- it's got lots of good things Wings of Fire has, and flaws that Wings of Fire doesn't have, so it's a whole new worldbuilding to explore.
Idk why, but in my mind, Wings of Fire, Warrior cats and Guardians of Ga'Hoole is like the three main animal based fictional series, while the fantasy/dystopia is Harry Potter, Percy Jackson and Hunger Games (although I can definitely add Maze Runner and Shadowhunters in there).
These authors seriously made (and is making) my childhood.
Guardians of Ga’hoole is a masterpiece, I read those books so much-
As someone who is in the process of writing an urban fantasy dragon book, I can understand why Sutherland writes more about some dragons over others. We have our favourites and therefore delve deeper into those breeds/species/tribes more than others. It’s not intentional all the time, and considering Sutherland released 1 or 2 books a year, I can see why they wrote more about certain dragons than others. It’s easier and quicker focusing on specific breeds and if they’re a favourite, they’re more fun to write and less likely to get cursed with writer’s block, which for someone who relies on on book sales as an income could become detrimental.
Is this an excuse? No. I’d much rather halt my story for a couple more years to perfect characters and world building, but I can 100% see why that’s not in every author’s best interest.
I’m also writing a dragon fantasy book and did inadvertently write *a lot* about my lightning dragons over other species in the first book. They’re one of the few traditional-looking dragons in the story so I think that partially played into their immense focus, but also the main-main character had a bone to pick with the lightning dragons’ king that is settled at the end. Everybody is gonna have a favorite character and a favorite species, and if you’re the one writing them you can sometimes get carried away and not evenly distribute time across every species. My story actually has more dragon types than WoF (only by two tho) and I most definitely wouldn’t be able to cover each one in time if it weren’t for the plot helping me out.
And I think it’s pretty obvious why the MudWings have very little focus: they’re not all that interesting compared to other tribes. NightWings have the most OP powers by far and they get the most focus, while all MudWings have is occasional fireproof individuals, the SandWings and SeaWings also get a decent amount of attention and both are unique and fascinating in their own ways. It’s exactly like liking a character more because they have more interesting magic powers than the rest, that’s just how the process goes sometimes.
You absolutely have a lot of good points, there’s lots of holes in the WoF worldbuilding and as an artist I’d be one of the first to complain about same design syndrome for the tribes lol. But, I think we also don’t give Tui enough credit for the world that has been built. It’s magnificent and creative, and it does have many different unique cultures in it - and it lends itself to further creative stories everywhere, whether by Tui herself or the fans. So many people have been able to make stories and involve themselves in WoF and I think that’s definitely partially due to Tui’s engaging worldbuilding that exists. It’s much easier to critique or build upon something that exists, vs building up a world from nothing.
On your comment about the guide - don’t worry, the info is (for the most part) being told through stories :)
OML,HI! im a fan :D
Aloha Bio!
OMG I JUST SUBBED
I couldn’t agree more! There were a lot of good points but Tui did create an amazing world!
I couldn't agree more. While I wouldn't mind to see more official stuff from WoF, i got into fan stories and all, and it showed me so many interesting ideas for stories.
Tui literally sprinkled a bunch of interesting concepts through each book then never elaborates on them to focus on the big bad guy and it just makes the world seem so empty 💀💀🗿
Like possibility
I will say that in my opinion the gaps in history don’t bother me. Most of the time, we don’t talk about history in our day to day. Especially things more than 100 years ago. And often older history has gaps and forgotten elements. While I think information about more recent events would be nice, I don’t think it’s necessary to the story, and I don’t think the gaps are a flaw in the writing. All the history we know has always seemed relevant to the plot and too much more would feel like too crowded.
this is specifically a video about the worldbuilding, not the overall story. when talking about the story as a whole, yeah! we should only be told information we need to know. but if you're trying to get yourself immersed in this little dragon world, massive gaps in the history of the tribes are gonna be a bit bothersome. it's like what was stated in the video-- bonus information such as history and societal quirks do not need to be in a main-series book, as long as the world can be developed a little more.
I think the biggest problem with wings of fires world building is that the dragons feel out of place like they don’t belong in their own world like all the animals are from our world. This seems minor on paper but it just makes the world feel like it’s earth but with dragons because how did these dragons come to existence
Nice points, Char. Ngl it was confusing for me that one NightWing can singlehandedly split a species into two. It's like the Thunder from Nine Realms all over again.
In Httyd, it's the opposite in reality.
The Night Furry species and the Light Furry (who isn't the female counterpart of the latter like many think it by error), actually merged to give the black and white Furry species from which Thunder belong.
@@dudotolivier6363 Fury
@@skaynne54 Ok, sorry for the grammar errors.
And another thing?
LeafWings have the NightWing teardrop pattern along their neck, meaning SHE WENT AROUND BANGING IN THEIR TRIBE TOO
@@socialistrepublicofvietnam1500 Fuck ! I never spot that !
Nice !
You have an hawk's eye dude !
One thing that would be cool is a POV book OR winglet story for Clay’s aunt who brought him to the Talons of Peace (yes, a Mud Wing, because I think it’d be nice to see Clay’s gentle nature reflected in his aunt’s personality….
Asha, yes!
10:31 There's actually a fan tribe about that area called CentiWings. It has a really in-depth discussion on culture (in my opinion) on their wiki page.
Centiwing Rain world
9:35 It's not for nothing we received a book about humans.
DragonSlayer, even if it's have some flaws and weakness, still an amazing and very well made book, very underrated.
Maybe most of people aren't interesting about the humans in the franchise, but that don't change that our own species is still a well present part of this universe, and it's always interesting to see how they live, what is their view from their side, of it.
Each of the three plots that end up merging togethers at the end are good and enjoyable ones.
We learn a lot about humans in it. That still big and good worldbuilding.
Really, it's worth to point out that this book help and correct many things.
About worldbuilding, we know since book 1 that humans exist in this world. It's not nothing, it's our own species, and people and young will identify at them too, and more easily than dragons, because, well... they are directly humans.
But until DragonSlayer, humans were always put in bad, dangerous and just treated like a punching ball element, suffering a lot to the dragons.
Since they are our own species, people can't to not feel sorry and sad about them.
If people doesn't care about their destiny to be just snack and treated as animals by dragons, the readers will be monsters and complete asholes.
If humans were instead something else, like goblins, and inherently naturally bad beings, so there will be no problems at all hat they always end up suffering and be killed by dragons.
Like you said, if we have stuff, we need to explore it if it's somewhat enough interessting and important to the world itself.
It's would completely be nonsense to have humans, to be aware of their existence in this world, and never explore them futher.
About the story, humans always played a very good, huge manjor role and more than we usually thought all over the franchise.
It's a human that killed Oasis and create the Sandwings War, and the events of the first cycle as an effect.
It's because of a human that at the end dragosn took over the world and dominate the world as he is today.
It's a human that end up made Kestrel very sad because she lost her two dragonnets in the same time and could have had at least Sky of the two. And it's that that made how she is in book 1.
Humans and dragons in final have a very huge influence from both side.
They are maybe ennemies, but their fate still very connected thoughout their history, and throughout all the books series.
Also, the book also awnser some legitimate question about the plot of cycle 1.
Like the fact, in book 5, Sunny find the star artifact she end up retreiving it from two teenage humans
So, far, until here, we and she only know that the royal treasure with this star was stolent by 3 adults humans 20 years before, and it all.
And Sunny think she can find the treasure on the ashes human village ruins, go and remain here to the night, find two random younger humans, ask them to give her the treasure, they give it to her with the artifac dream star,a nd Sunny just go.
That is quite a lazy convenient plot device isn't ?
DragonSlayer awnser about all th question this part of the book leave, about Leaf and Ivy. Why they were here in an abbondoned ruined village, why they have the royal treasure, why they have the star artifac etc...
That quite a nice and honorific correction to a holes from the main books.
Or, like others example, why Scarlet, when she meet Clay and Tsunami, was alone without any guards to prtect her thus she's the queen of the Skywings ?
Because a human steal her some treasure, she go into his chase indeed with guards, but the human, called Mushroom, meet the human group with Leaf alongside them that were after him, they are all discovered by the dragons.
And while the guard are all occupy to capture the entire group, Mushroom escape and Scarlet thus follow him alone.
Really, DragonSlayer is a really great book as the same level than the others, but truly underrated just because "it's about humans".
Sorry, but that isn't a proper argument to justify the negative things people have about it.
And you should have read and analyse more deeper the book, made more in-depth development of it, to truly have a good view of it.
Your review of the book there 3 years now wasn't irrelevant, just not sufficently accurate.
YESSS THIS. I NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY PEOPLE NEVER LIKED DRAGONSLAYER, ITS SUCH A GREAT BOOK, LIKE WHY DO PEOPLE HATE THEIR OWN SPECIES 😭😭😭
I personally would've made a comprimise with the 7 circles system for the Icewings, because I don't know about going the other extreme of just destroying the system altogether. Sure, many Icewings were happy at that change, but not everyone will be happy about this (material for queen assasination attempts), others might realize later that their life has no purpose because it revolved around the system (mid-life crisis).
A middle ground I think would've been the best option, but I can't think of one off the top of my head. Maybe keep the system, but get rid of the rankings and instead focus on different traits to promote, teach young dragonets about the importance of emotions and making connections with each other, punish tiger parenting for good, encourage Icewings having fun and help them find their interests, no matter how unusual or weird (*cough* Winter's fascination with Scavengers).
I want a book where we discover that the Rainwings used to absolutely devastate the other tribes (for one reason or another), and then they pulled ALL the way back from that and became much more docile and lax, leading to them forgetting their history and just accepting their lives for what they are. Afterward, many other tribes began to forget it as the time of Darkstalker rolled around. Then, when Queen Oasis died, they had much more urgent things to worry about, so they forgot about it almost completely, thus why it's left unmentioned. However, a Nightwing who's lived a long time still remembers...
Personally, I disagree with the 'tribe designs' part, especially SkyWings.
SkyWings were meant to be the basic dragons, not NightWings. They look basic because they're supposed to, but I don't have an excuse for the NightWings.
And the weapons *do not matter* if it reflects the real world so much, humans do exist in WoF, they could've copied them, it makes sense, even though they probably would've made their own sort of weapons that might not have been as popular in that world.
I agree with the 'Tribes don't get enough attention' bit though, please give us more MudWings, Tui
for me my biggest pet peeve in a worldbuilding is when places on the map explored, like for Pyrrhia the Diamond spray Delta(and river although I believe we might have seen that in the graphic novels)Claws of the clouds mountains and the scavenger dens, just like you said in 2:52
I really like to imagine that lots of dragons have buildingless towns where they just sort of flock and nest in one area. I know that MudWings do it(aside from mud huts for eggs), but just imagine a southern village of IceWings that nest on a rocky beach like seabirds or pods of SeaWings that use natural coral reefs as shelter
I actually really like how similar the tribes look! I think they have enough differences to easily distinguish them, at the very least up close, and the similarities help suggest all tribes were once the same. Also, due to the fact tribes can bear fertile offspring with eachother, we can assume the different tribes are more like breeds as opposed to species, their similarities make sense, as long as you believe the one species theory, like I do.
I totally agree, and yeah, I have never minded how similar they look. Heck, I only noticed that because of this video!
Sandwings and Mudwings are the easiest to identify, yet Tui swaped them in the 6th graphic novel (Their Sillouhetes)
It’s the artist’s fault
Mike Holmes doesn’t typically draw dragons, that’s why the silhouettes are a little wonky.
okay but imagine colour-changing feathers on rainwings xD. like, instead of having normal bird-like feathers, how about more scaly feathers? personally i think that could work. also the seawings' heads (mouthes, mostly) need a redesign. they're supposed to be catching fish, so why not give them a crocodile-like mouth or something?
Haven't watched yet but considering this guy made it, I can almost garente it'll be interesting.
Fun dragon designs my beloved. I'm creating my own non-WoF tribes. The ice dragons are fluffy, the wind dragons are feathery, the water dragons are oversized fish, and the earth dragons are ankylosaurs. I love your weapon ideas, I might incorporate them into my own story!
Love this! In my original dragon universe the sizes of the species drastically differ, there are really big guys and little tiny guys. The fire dragons are wyverns, the sea dragons have a body shape like a bear, ice dragons are more inspired by birds of prey, and they live more in a tundra than the north pole. Horn shape and number is a pretty big deal two. Wind dragons can have antlers, and fire dragons have 4 horns. Trying to think of how I can add Kirins/Qilins and other fantastical animals
I remember making my own dragon world. Fire dragons had sexual dimorphism, with females being smaller and more slender, while males were big and bulky. All dragons look pretty much the same though. I abandoned that world a while ago, but I will come back to it, and make the different dragons have unique designs and change many other things. On this dragon planet, there is much more oxygen, so the dragons can reach gargantuan sizes.
I understand how someone would take one glance at Clearsight making the hole of the Hivewing tribe and go, “what the heck?!” But there is a bunch of evidence that says this is not what happened. I’ll list the following here:
-It’s not considered inbreeding after x number of generations, no one says anything about modern Hivewings being weird by having children with each other.
-Lady Scarab said that it was very likely that her great grand mother who stopped Hivewings and Silkwings from having dragonets with each other, meaning that about 300 years prior to the events of book 11-15 is when it became illegal.
-when Clearsight arrived the tribes living on The Lost Continent were Leafwings and Beetlewings, there were no Silkwings or Hivewings. Seeing how genetics work, Clearsight had anywhere from 7-15ish (just guessing) with her two husbands (first one died), then her children married other Beetlewings (even possibly Leafwings) and had more children. It just happened that after years of reproducing Beetlewings went extinct and whatever combo of prehistoric Hivewings and Leafwings never took off, unlike Beetwings and Pre-Hivewings. The Beetlewings degraded to Silkwings and the Hivewings became numerous enough to be considered a tribe, Silkwing/Beetlewing colors are genetic, so Clearsight husband(s) were shades of Orange, Yellow, and/or Red.
-there may have been inbreeding, but not enough for it to be an issue. Unfortunately humans inbreed too sometimes, but not enough for it to truly get the attention of Society.
Also, unrelated to what I’ve just said, but for the dragon shapes and builds and variation, I can agree on most but it’s worth mentioning as well that seawings should have longer snouts too. That’s all, don’t talk this all too personally, this is me just petting my knowledge of WoF and Science to give results. I may be wrong at some parts, but that bc I’m not perfect, nor is anyone.
Also i know that with snakes at least, inbreeding for 2 or 3 generations doesn't have many negative effects, only when it starts being 5+ generations so it's possible something similar is true for dragons
And my little headcanon theory is that Clearsight's vision of the trees being in danger about 900 years after her time was some sort of catastrophic event that killed a lot of dragons, and created a population bottleneck
So the most hivewing like night/beetlewings and silkwing like beetlewings happened to make up most of the survivors, so a lot of the 'original' beetlewing genes were lost
I agree with most of your points! To be honest, I was a huge fan of the IceWing tribe's diversity in their culture, such as the unique Wall that separated and protected their kingdom, whereas no other tribe had such a creative androtective layer for their kingdom. What I wish Tui did instead with the Wall is if she had made Jerboa break animus magic later on in the book (or even series), she could have opened up a slightly wider variety of options to solve a whole lot of issues that really couldn't be solved without magic. I think what made Pyrrhia so special was the MAGIC, that allowed readers to go creative and imaginative in their own worlds of fanfictions. If any animus still had the capability of using their magic till the end of The Dangerous Gift, Snowfall wouldn't have had to destroy the Wall. Instead, Tui could have written the end differently, and made a compromise. Where the Wall would still be up and working, however if any visitors from other Kingdoms wished to pass, they'd have go wear the magic protective bracelets that were used earlier in the Winglet Runaway, for the NightWing representations that came to visit Queen Diamond. Queen Diamond had no hate to the NightWings at the time, but they're Wall was still up. They were smart enough to use bracelets that allowed their guest to safely pass through the Wall. Now, if Tui had brought back that piece of creativity in The Dangerous Gift, I can almost be assured it would have a more pleasing ending (at least for some readers). That second thing that made the IceWing tribe's so sharp witted and well-prepared is their Circles. The 7 Circles that ranked an individual were umfortunately based on their relationship status with the Queen, instead of how they actually behaved in day-to-day life. In order to get a higher ranking, dragons would try their best to ob3y the Queen at any cost, serve her and worship her. This here could have been changed. In The Dangerous Gift, where Snowfall destroys the 7 Circles of IceWing Order, she could have kept them. She could have made another compromise here. Instead of basing the results of their rankings out of how they treated her, she could have decided to base the rankings out of how the dragon acted as an individual. Over that, Snowfall could have removed the punishment of being sent to an island post in the arctic if a dragon dropped to the lowest Circle. This, chronically, would have reduced the stress put on the IceWings and especially, the dragonets, while still keeping their sharp-witted nature on track. If Tui had built on this line of ideas, the story could have been appealing to so many more readers.
I totally agree with you, there are lots of holes in the Wings of Fire worldbuilding, I think it would be a good idea to have more legends and new stuff to learn in A Guide to the Dragon World, telling us more about The Legend of the Hive and much, much more. It would be extremely helpful, especially when you have theories all over the place.
Tui could've added oh so much more! The world of WOF has so much potential... And in Darkstalker Legends, they should've looked almost so different! Because of evolution. And i LOVE mudwings. And am sad they never got any MAIN books on their culture, land, hierarchy and so much more... You have many good points that could've add such a more interesting Plot!
Agreed we need more mudwings in the series all we get is clay and one scene from book 5 and book6 of tiny bit of clays siblings I love drawing mudwings as well as making them have horns that curve like a goats mostly cause it’s more diverse compared to the other tribes
i'm not sure that any major, noticeable evolution would've taken place over the course of only 2,000 years (i don't know very much about evolution but that does seem like a very short time span), but there absolutely should've been some major differences in so many other places. think of how much has changed in our society since 5 years ago dude! the first cat video was from only the 1900s!
@@Quill5516 Glad somebody agrees! :D
@@Quill5516 i also enjoy drawing mudwings, even if i struggle drawing the blucky body-shape they have
@@KarmaVein same I have that problem a lot with making dragon body shapes in all the tribes but specifically making the bulked up ones like mudwings
I'm going to have to disagree with you about the SkyWings. They should be the most like the classic European Dragon. If anything, the NightWings should be like bats since they are "NIGHT" wings. How about giving them the wyvern-style body type?
Just a note about the technology part, when Darkstalker and Clearsight meet for the first time, they mention fireworks, which means gunpowder does exist on Pyrrhia, or, did.
so does that mean...dragon guns could've been a thing???
(on a more serious note, wouldn't it be neat-or at least make more sense-for them to have cannons, if they had gunpowder??)
I’m coming up with a fan continent based on Australia, here my tribes:
CaveWings: Skink like dragons with hard beaded like scales, club-like tails, and strong claws for digging.
ReefWings: Bright colorful dragons that can release toxins and other coral abilities.
GhostWings: Gliding dragons whose wings resemble the gliding skin between gliding marsupials like sugar gliders.
PouchWings: Marsupial-like dragons who have wings that don’t really allow them fly, but glide.
FINALLY, someone talked about this! I was waiting for a review on the world building for a long time. Cultures and religions should play a huge part in a society, espicially in the medivial fantasy times. Hell, it could be a leading conflict, or any of that stuff. This is why I'm starting to drift away from wof slowly. It just isn't developed enough.
I get it lol, it frustrates me a little that the content’s geography makes no sense, the Icewing kingdom is at the same latitude as the poison jungle? And the Poison jungle and other rainforest are at different latitudes? Where the hell is the equator?!! Where are the tropics? Are there any tectonic plates? It’s just weird
?
Kids will be confused by that
ONe thing that is never adressed is Why nigthwings are so powerfull? are they related to a god or something?
Ice wings and Sea wing are the same, they got the most OP power of all time, a power to litteraly BEND reality to theirs wishes, HOW DID IT COME INTO EXISTANCE?!!!!
Moreover every tribe seem to have one Rare OP variant, firescales, fireproof scales , mind reading/prophecy ,fire silk . That got me wondering if there more Variants to be explored, like an Abyssal Seawing (like an Abyssal Lagiacrus) or a Rainwing that spit poinson mist like a chameleos or something. THere a lot to explore.
Also the fact that there is not enougth immortal dragons, like animus magic is said to appear in every tribes and immortality is the one thing every animus get so where are they?Its not like their extra rare , there alway one or two animuses in each generations and while Darkstalker stayed 5000 years underground, who knows how many animuses actually exist. Also aren't Seawing a family with a lot of Animus? like Albatros, turtle , Orca, Animus seems to appear way to many time in this family.
Buts its only my toughts , just hope there can be more sense
Maybe the reason why Qibli wants a poisoned dagger is because dragons often grab SandWing’s tail?
the way i personally think of it when it's like 'all hivewings are related to clearsight'- i see it as it being semi-true, a kind of mythologized truth. she bred with some of the beetlewings, but hivewings evolved into their own species on their own maybe?? not solely because of a strange dragon breeding with a few dragons of another species??
like they *think* she is the origin of all of them but she can't possibly have been. she's already treated as a deity, so i consider it more of a mythology thing where because she is essentially their all knowing god-grandma- they think they're all her children
idk if this makes any sense the way i wrote it it's 5:30am and i haven't slept yet x.x have my uncensored unedited rambling i guess lmao
I'm glad the TV show will divercify the tribe designs a lot more.
Wasn't it cancelled?
@@NitroIndigo It's on hold until studios that own the streaming services get their financial issues sorted out.
What would've been cool was if there was another tribe on Pantala in that mountain range. Ones that do believe in Clearsight but don't worship her, and rather think she brought a ton of new dragons to the continent, that they never needed. Leading to them isolating themselves in the mountains because they don't want contact with the other tribes. Extra points if they also aren't related to her, and would've survived the hurricane on their own, making them think Clearsight was useless and should've never come in the first place.
I see no issue with spears, spears are irl the most effective weapon (aside from firearms). They are cheap, easy to train with, and have superior range to nigh everything. Spears should be omnipresent in pretty much every pre-gun world.
After watching this, I feel like the night wings are basically just a plot device
I saw the maps for pyrrhia in one of the books and QUEEN MOORHEN DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A PALACE!
I clicked on this video out of pure boredom.. and you ended up sending me spiralling into my WoF fixation again!! I forgot how much I love this series, despite its flaws. You certainly earned a sub with this one!!! Your narration and points are all so interesting to listen to, and your character’s artwork is adorable. Good job dude!
oh and to clarify some more information on my au I do plan on making it a fanfic, which will definitely make things fun as we plan on giving each tribe the spotlight they deserve having arcs and important plots in the story that connect with others or overall show that bit more world building the world deserves.
The only major problem with the dragon designs is that they are the only (non-insect) creatures with six (technically eight for the Silk and HiveWings) limbs.
Everything else has four limbs, then the dragons have two to four extra limbs, with no explanation. I would (personally) change their designs to be more like pterosaurs so they'll fit in with everything else without looking out of place.
i'm so glad someone agrees that dragons having six to eight limbs is so off-putting. it'd be so much fun if they had big wing arms like bats! so many cool ideas could be had, so many cool details about the societies and anatomy of these weird little wyvern guys, and it'd be SO MUCH EASIER TO DRAW THEM WITHOUT THOSE BIG DAMN WINGS IN THE WAY
Like Wings of Charcoal have pointed out, it's a fantasy-fantastical world, so you made every liberties you want.
But sure, the fact that science does exist int his world and is mentionned here and here left a feeling to be just off sometimes.
Most of the science if post-Renaissance era analogue knowledge, but in book 2 Coral completely mention genetic, a element coming from our modern days era.
So, yes, that is a specific thing that always a thing that distub me to this day
Wings of Fire’s anatomy contradicts the environments so much that it makes me wonder if Tui even researched about animals that live in those environments
I’ve been a fan of your channel but I’ve never commented before. The focus problem.
AMEN to that, as a SkyWing and MudWing fan I 100% agree with your argument. It’s so very common to see RainWings or NightWings being a favorite but rarely ever SkyWings or MudWings.
Not like I have a problem with people who prefer other tribes over others. What I’m saying maybe it could be more balanced, SkyWings and Mudwings need more love. Most argue that SkyWings are just traditional dragons and MudWings are boring. But there are more things to like about a tribe other than their powers and how they look.
SPOILERS BELOW
Don’t even get me stared on the MudWings bro 💀
Poor MudWings, I’m being dead serious rn and I can literally only name one and a half MudWings that actually had an impact on the main story.
Clay and Sora.
Clay is self explanatory
Sora, she didn’t even really do anything to the main story.
Ig she was responsible for the murder mystery conflict in book 6 but Moon and everyone after they find out it was her is like
“Oh no!”
“Anyways..”
and immediately forget about Sora.
Additional rant about Sora’s situation:
It puzzles me to think about how she easy she got away with murdering 2 dragons and nearly killing another one, I understand she wanted revenge. But maybe she shouldn’t have done it in a way that endangered over dragons or something, idk I’ve never tried to kill someone before. I felt bad for her and I understood it was a mistake, but girlie did not learn from her mistakes and tried it again, endangering more dragons. What if that stalactite hit someone else? Sora only backs down when Icicle connects the dots and Sora is caught. Who knows how many more she would have tried to kill Icicle. I may just be being salty because she was responsible for my baby Carnelian’s death. (Why is Tui always killing off or forgetting about SkyWings with potential for interesting character development. [ex; Osprey, Kestrel, Carnelian, etc])
but ALSOO BEING ROOMMATES WITH YOUR SIBLINGS MURDERER WOULD BE LITERAL HELL! I BLAME WHOEVER TF WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT
I haven’t read book 6 in a while so I apologize if something I said is inaccurate or incorrect.
Also it is totally OK if you disagree!
Thank you for listening to my Ted Talk 😌
Oh my god Brisk that spelling is actually atrocious
My au I'm working on is called divided wings I wanted to explore and express deeper why all the tribes are in more of a truce but would never unite.
They all have different cultures, there is an ancient tribe in the story that is most likely the ancestors and some of the dragons believe it while others don't. The tribes also have different materials that they trade with each other and attire. For example, mudwings in my au aren't too fancy with jewelry, and it's because they are in the mud often so they'd dirty most expressive attire. We also have nightwings experimenting with technology, although they keep it to themselves to give themselves an advantage over the other tribes knowing they can safely sell off other materials to the other tribes for their lack of means of electricity, the dragons also integrated some of the human weapons, through observing and studying humans altogether. Seawings are the most immersed in human weaponry, due to their lack of breath attack they have forged their own versions of human-inspired weaponry. You also have the icewings in my au that are incredibly proud and refuse to use weapons altogether, quite literally being one of the most ferocious and cruel tribes with their means to use their teeth, claws, tails, and frost breath. I and my friends wrote out their differences in the hierarchy such as skywings having a military ruler who controls the army and enforces the law and a ruler by wealth who is in control of alliances with the other tribes. Each tribe has its own religious stances with icewings not believing anything thinking that tribes such as the nightwings who study relics, artifacts, ancient writing, and bones may just have made it up for profit. Nightwings believed the ancient civilization to be true, but maybe not as powerful as some of the other tribes believe. The Mudwings and Rainwings seem to be very neutral in the matter so as to not start a needless conflict. But those are just a couple of things we did to ensure we had a hefty amount of world-building in our au.
I always imagined the SeaWings having horns a lot like Elk do. They follow the contour of their body and flow backwards instead of forwards, like a deer. Another design that might work as well is something like rams horns, where they curve around their ears, but that makes them seem more demonic in a way, and also wouldn't be very hydrodynamic now that I think about it... I would also like to add that while you do raise good points with the history, I think the author never really thought that the books would go beyond the first five, so there wasn't a good foundation to advance into the series it became. That and the fact that all this open space in the history allows for the reader to come up with a lot of it, which gives room for a lot of fan made content, which is a massive part of the WoF universe now.
While I don't 100% agree with everything you said in this video, but I fo with most of it! Especially the weapons, most of the weapons are goofy by themselves, but thefavt they are weilded by dragons makes it more goofy. In my own lil world I made artificial SandWing barbs a very used and useful weapon, first introduced by giving one to NightWing/SandWing hybrid that didn't have a barb.
Yo, Charcoal! Ever noticed how Pyrrhia kinda looks like Great Britain and Pantala kinda looks like North America? Think a bout it. Pantalan history is a bit similar too.
I'd say that Pyrrhia looks more like North America, with some parts of the geography resembling the U.S. (Arid desert/rocky area in the southwest, frigid cold area resembling Alaska in the northwest, the Claws of the Clouds Mountains being like the Rocky Mountains, etc. Of course, there isn't a rainforest or marshland throughout the southeast and east of the U.S. unless you make a stretch and compare them to areas like the Everglades.) In general, the shape of Pyrrhia looks more like Canada and Alaska to me.
@@hydrashade1851 there are more than 3 including, Jamaica, Cuba, Dominica, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Guatemala ect.
@@juststrahyk5377 i hate the american education system. i'll edit my reply, thanks for telling me this.
@@hydrashade1851”There’s a lot of countries in England including Great Britain”
OK SO
The British isles have Republic of Ireland and the UK.
UK has Great Britain (the bigger island) and Northern Ireland(self explanatory )+ other islands like Isle of Man etc
Great Britain is England, Scotland,Wales
So yeah you don’t really make sense here. screw American education system.
Welp, I know exactly what to avoid in my future book series. Thanks!
Lazy leafwings and dangerous rainwings? That's too illegal... But not a bad idea.
One thing I can't stop thinking about whenever this series comes to mind is WHERE, THE, HELL, these tribes get enough food to support a population of a bunch of massive stomached lizards:
If they SETTLE in ONE PLACE then surrrrrrrrely they would overhunt everything nearby? Surely the populations of their prey would thin enough to force them to move to another location? Have the dragons invented AGRICULTURE?
(Also the sandwing tribe's settlements would make more sense if built along a river, they need water, this is even a problem in the, what, scorpion's den?)
Great video! Your videos are always super interesting. Keep it up!
Regarding the tribe designs; I think most of the designs are intended to stay close to how you would consider a typical dragon. Given what Tui had planned at the time, they all stay within what you'd expect out of a 'typical' dragon. I think being introduced at the beginning of the first book with very drastically different dragons (like SeaWings with shark tails and axolotl gills) might be a little too much to be taken in a new reader. I think the Pantalan dragons later on in the series have more unique designs because they're introduced when the reader already has all the context from the rest of WoF.
That said, YES fuzzy IceWings!
History is... a mixed bag. While I *absolutely* want a full reading of The Scorching, I think not knowing the past makes it feel more like the past. If we had a book about a LeafWing in the Tree Wars, for example, it would be less of "the past" and more of just "a thing that happened" like the SandWing War of Succession.
Now, I agree that still doesn't really explain the lack of any notable events between Darkstalker and the main series, especially considering in canon all three arcs (which center around major global/continental events) take place within a total of 3-5 years. SandWing Succession War; Return of Darkstalker; literally the entire resolution of Pantala.
Seeing that the Pyrrhian kingdoms are relatively balanced where no one really outweighs another, it makes sense that society remains similar across the continent (except where environmental conditions differ), and when tribal differences aren't the main focus, the society and how they differ isn't a main focus. I think it's done well enough as we see the Dragonets of Destiny explore the continent in arc 1 where the differences are very obvious (MudWing sibs, SeaWing aquatic, RainWings in general) because the main characters know basically as much as the reader does and they learn alongside the reader rather than brushing it off as just normal.
Pantala I feel is a bit *too* complicated at times. The stark difference to Pyrrhia is welcome, but within Pantala, the added complexity creates major questions that go unanswered and will likely stay unanswered as the whole system changes at the end of arc 3 (which we also don't get many details about).
Weapons I've never considered before, but now I'm asking all the same questions! Not enough thought was put into the weapons and armor, especially considering the series starts in a WAR where tribes should want to get a leg up in any way possible i.e. WEAPONS!
The Focus Problem; very good discussion here. I don't have much to add except that we get a whole book about scavengers where they are then a MAJOR PLOT POINT at the end of arc three, but NO MUDWINGS? WHERE ARE THE MUDWINGS, TUI??
Anyways, regarding how to fix it, I really think there should be less focus on 'moving the story of Wings of Fire forward' and more on moving outward and exploring areas that haven't really been touched. There's lots of potential in less explored topics like what happened to the RainWings, the society of the SkyWings, the building of Pantala (or really anything on Pantala, we have very few history details), maybe MUDWINGS??? As you said, the Winglets would be a great way to do this, but it doesn't seem like those will be returning considering they were originally designed to give readers content between books but instead achieved significantly increasing the length of time between books.
Again, awesome video!
2:28 Speaking of Griffin, that would be awesome if there was others mythical and fantastic beast and creatures others than dragons in Wing of Fire !
Because outside dragons, the only others animals are... normal animals from real life.
Juts than, like objects, most animals in Wing of Fire universe are bigger (double the original size) than in our world. But outside that, they still pretty generic.
Since it's a fantastical universe, the world of Pyrrhia and pantala should be filled by others numerous fantasy creatures too.
Like, I don't know, phoenix, jackalope, chupacabra, hydras, or any others mythical beast from any other possible culture around our world.
So far, the only things we have on this aspect is three sea monsters on the Pyrrhia map at the begining of each book and some weird creatures in Burn's fortress.
It's would be interesting to see others mythical beast being sapient as dragons and humans and having their society !
And to see how they will eet and interact !
I can perfectly see an entire spin-off book series focused on Griffins and who merge with the main book at one moment !
Now your just making a different series, wings of fire is at its core, a dragon book, what you are talking about is something far different
@@tacticstonk4740Yes and No.
I clearly explained that my overall point was to have more mythical creatures inside the universe, whatever sapient or not.
The fact that we are in a fantasy setting since almost an entire decade, in 15 books, and that to this day we only have dragons as fantastic beast, and only dragons and humans as sapient beings feel really just odd, disturbing in many places, feel empty, boring and just feel wrong.
See all the others franchise of the same category of Wings of Fire, like Harry Potter, Keepers of the Lost Cities, Tara Duncan, etc... all the others fantasy books series like them.
They all display at least a minimum of fantastic creatures and sapient beings outside humans than only one or two.
Adding that to Wings of Fire would be a nice addition.
Even as just a simple secondary, background element.
To made things more interesting.
And why not making a spin-off to the series as well ?
All the others example I mentionned and who received success had that (or something fitting this kind of thing).
So far, the three sea monsters on the map are unconfirmed to really exist and could just be creations imagined by the dragons, like us with our own old seas world maps from the Renaissance time.
While Burn's Fortress creatures are confirmed for most, obviousely, to be anomalies of typical animals.
So not apart weird species .
The idea to put another sapient mythical beast, I don't know, Wyverns, Griffin, or any other flying fantastic creatures, as sapient beings, have also a lot of potential.
Think about it.
There possibility for a third continent, that both Pyrrhia and Pantala's dragons don't know.
There could be a lot of differents fantastic creatures on it. Like one sapient with it own civilisation.
A spin-off series showing them and this third continent in parallel would be nice.
And the main books can at one moment made a story where the dragons and humans of the two previous continents would finally meet the inhabitants of the third one.
Just imagined the possibilities with dragons and humans meeting and interacting with non-dragons and non-humans sapient biengs.
And the main books will not have the flaws to not show/explore enough the third continent like for Pantala, thank to the spin-off books that have made the work already more than the main books would have been able to do.
I don't expect, realistically, that to happen one day for the franchise.
But that still a really neat and nice idea and strategy with a lot of potential and fun stuffs.
i'm a bit late on this, but i'm glad i'm not the only one who noticed how much focus some dragon tribes get while others have little to no thought on theirs. maybe it's bc i'm salty w/ how the mudwings were just tossed to side throughout the entire series, but i always just disliked it.
i always go w/ this philosophy when it comes to worldbuilding; "don't bloat your lore". basically, if you're gonna have a lot of races, and you realize how much focus some races have, while others don't, you might need to simplify how many races you have. and this works with any other part of the lore, like history, magic, and landmarks too. wings of fire has seven tribes, ten if you count pantala, and the fact that we focus so much on nightwings while the rest are shafted should say something. simplify the amount you have, like go w/ three or just one if you realize that you put more focus on that one race. maybe it's just me, but having seven different tribes with another three on another continent makes me feel tired thinking about it.
idk just wanted to say smth, great video nonetheless dude.
Great wideo! Also it's nice to hear astera theme in background
My headcanon is that Clearsight only had a handful of dragonets, but Darkstalker made an enchantment so that all of her descendants would retain some of her scale colour, hence why all HiveWings have some black. Some weren't necessarily Clearsight's descendants, but black BeetleWings, and then convergent evolution ensued.
Ok at 3:14 I 400 percent agree but also get rid of the hind legs. They don’t do anything. And lengthen the snout because aquatic predators have elongated snouts!!
SEALWINGS BASED
I think what happened with clearsight being the ancestor is that she had a bunch of kids (and i remember that being described correctly), and then those kids mated with others in the tribe, and slowly (since it was 2,000 years or so) they got bread into hivewings and silkwings. At least that would get rid of the inbreeding issue.
He look, a video about my motivation for creating The Animus Library way back when!
Honestly I'm mostly just confused about why the ice kingdom is like right next to the sand kingdom. Wouldn't you put the sky kingdom just below the ice kingdom? It's colder the higher up you are, it just makes sense.
I agree with your prompt, I HEAVILY disagree with all the specific opinions. Obviously they are opinions and whatnot, so I don’t wanna press too much but Tuis coverage is admirable for being such a popular wrighter and a bit off given some of the creative choices
A problem I can't wrap my brain around is the completely inconsistent size of things. What is the scale?? How big are humans? How big are hawks? Apparently, it is a full enough meal for a family of four! The humans are big enough to pick up a baby HiveWing and toss it in the air like a baby but also humans are apparently tiny and squeaky?? Are baby dragons just itty bitty specks? The foliage is all scaled to dragon size - evident by the size of a blueberry compared to humans - but the animals are all over the place.
I can't even complain about WoF my bar is set so low from reading Warrior Cats
These are all good points but I'd say itd be kinda hard to flesh out the MudWings in arc 2 because there was alreafy so muxh going on and adding them into the plot would just create more problems than it would fix and make the story even more all over the place. Like ig thry cpuld havedone somthing woth them in book 8 if Peril went with Clay to see Queen Moorhen but really theres not much to do with them, its hard to get equal focus.
Also im not sure how more of Pyrrhia's history wpuld be able to beworked into the books, maybe more Wingleyts or mentions/converstaions about events? also it does leave it up to interoretation which gives a lot of room for famfictions and aus to flourish whether that was the intention or not.
I understand the weapons and society thing and i think it would make sense for
each culture to be more unique but compare this to the irl kingdoms of Europe-they all had their own cultures and stuff but they were really simialr to each other if you really think about it. Dragons being an inteligent species would have inevitably made the progression to spears and swords bevause long pointy thing go brrr. I do think material and design wise the weapons could have been more unique but i think its the natural progression of a civilization to invent swords and spears. Same voes for the monarchy system. maybe it had to do with untold history. maybe the tribes created the kingdoms while having close relations to each other and it kinda made sense as the only way to set up a society for them, a monarchy isnt a super unique idea, then again look at the real world, monarxhies developed separate from
each other all over. and i know the "real world mechanics" thing is annoying but i honestly fonthave a problem woth it because while you van make the Pyrrhian societies unique, having it work simialr to real life to an extent makes it easy for the reader to understand rather than create a whole new governing system and explaining it. and hey i kinda dig the dravons doing the things we do, it connects us more i guess and humanizes them. and i do wish we had more tine to explore the culture kf each tribe i feel itd be hard to fit a lot of that in with the plot. I mean we get somethings like the Scorpian Den in books 5 and 10 which j think is great worldbuilding especially in book 10, intoducing the local politics and the smaller things. i feel Tui had to prioritize the story and characters ontop of the culture and she probably didnt think it was that important but hey atleast the fans can fill in the blanks and with the Guide Book coming out later tbis yearaybe Tui will fill some of the blanks herself!
(Mostly gonna talk about the fact the WoF have regular spears and daggers and etc.)
I think one important thing I’ve learned about worldbuilding in a dragon world is, if your world isn’t Earth, make it explicit that they have things we have through other methods, or if that’s not a requirement give a unique twist for how they have certain technologies. For example, my dragons have ink that is derived from a special wasp/bee that produces it, these dragons don’t have concrete so they instead use logs from a very durable tree reinforced with metal, and while I imagine they do have spears or at the very least poles to keep dragons at a distance, they don’t have any other human-like weapons. Most of the time they don’t use weapons at all because of plot-related reasons and just use their claws, teeth, and whatever magic abilities they have available.
While plot certainly outweighs certain tiny worldbuilding details, every piece of worldbuilding you add adds just a little more flavor to your story. If the story is the cake, the worldbuilding is the delicious frosting that holds it all together. I’m not really nit picky for specific details like that (unless there’s plot holes) but I will admit first seeing that SkyWing in the graphic novel holding a spear was pretty goofy.
And yes the dragons in my story use bladed claw gauntlets but it’s a relatively new weapon and a different species related to the dragons beat them to it.
Real quick I think scorpion bay was mentioned in arc 3 (pantala series) and dragonfly bay was wear blue in cricket hid in the tunnels correct me if I’m wrong
I kinda feel like skywings should be the basic dragon and nightwings should be wacky. I do however think that the skywings should have even bigger wings. I like the icewing and silkwing fluff ideas.
There's a part where you're wrong, Clearsight breeding a tribe in 2000 years is completely plausible, lets say Clearsight and her children had eggs around 26.9 human years, in 2000 years that would be 74 generations of dragons, lets say in each clutch of eggs, 2 would eventually make it towards having children in which they had two which eventually went on to have 2 children and so on, in less than 70 generations, Clearsight would have had over a hundred Quintillion kin, I am not trying to discredit your work, I think you are amazing at what you do and hope you get 10k soon as well and sky's the limit, I was just curious after you said that there was no way Clearsight could had bred an entire tribe
Charcoal something I noticed about the sea wings is their snout.why is it short most if not all aquatic creatures that are predators have long snouts to catch their prey.
I don’t like to do double comments, BUT, I did make my oc lore for the dragons be it that they were way more high tech and then lost that. (4 gens after darkstalker and mostly noncanon) the main ones are:
Mudwing towns are mostly built underground with higher class residences being above ground. The lower class middle class homes and retail stuff is all built underground, under mud swamps. They also had ferry systems across the big lakes and swamps.
The seawings were quite similar to how they are in the books, but they were much more scientifically focused and enjoyed games like cards, they partied, and they had fun! Boats were also way more important. Fishing trawlers and such. PLUS, my world is full of creepy mutants and wharf (another can of sardines) in the ocean terrorizing non-seawings.
The nightwings never fled from the night kingdom and still live there, continuing to advance.
The hivewings (my friends lore) already exist and have hit a societal collapse, the royals fleeing to their own home, and the rest living in the chaotic hives.
That’s all I have for now but I entirely plan to keep fleshing out. I LOVE this series. And I love creating stuff. So, why not mix them together?
I mean, I did misread the books the first time and thought rainwings looked like icewings, skywings looked like seawings, etc. so I’m either stupid or you’re right.
If you think about it after the 20 year war all the tribes would increased they’re technology, medicine and weapons because take ww1 for example after ww1 tons of countries across the world did not want to same thing happening to them so they increased their technology but the wings of fire nothing really changed like is there anything changed like yeah it’s been a year but At least Something would have changed like better weapons
I believe it's only been a few months, 6 after arc 1 and maybe 1 month after arc 2 (they never specify).
The Sky Kingdom is making a healing center where Scarlet's arena was, so there's something.
The deal is that we rarely spend time in each kingdom to see any changes happen. If an arc 4 happens, it really should just make a time skip of several years to really see those changes.
@@lk_3099 yeah that’s one it doesn’t say at the end of The brightest night epilogue that’s takes One year after?
@@nitrozeus6393 I saw on the wiki it's 6 months, and I recall reading that in the books. I know it's not 1 year at least.
I believe the dragonets were 6.5 years old at least during arc 1, explaining them now being 7 years old.
@@lk_3099
Ok thank you but now i’m going to look up how long it took for new vehicles to be made in after ww1 to make a comparison to wings of fire
@@lk_3099 In Britain there were around 4 cars made after World War I which were the 1919 Hispano-suiza, the 1919 Rolls-Royce Springfield sliver ghost and the 1919 Duesenberg model a which were all made 2 to 3 months so at least something that changed in each country
I’m seriously wondering why the dragons even have horns in the first place though. Because with the way they’re pointed, they can’t even be used for combat.
Something I wonder about the whole monarchy is why there are kings instead of queens. I'm not sure if it was ever mentioned in the books since I haven't completed Winglets, Dragonslayer, and the guide to the dragon world.
Hopefully A Guide to the Dragon World will add to the history, and maybe the focus problem? Hopefully more unexplained things will be explained..
If the rainwings and leafwings swapped 1st of all the rainwings would all die off in 1 week, 2nd of all the leafwings would just terrorize other tribes
great video charcoal
I love the MH:W music in the background!!
i don't read the books much anymore but just how little focus the mudwings receive is something that has always frustrated me and still does. other than the three Pantala dragons, they're the only tribe with only one book that focuses on a protagonist from that tribe. i get that Tui probably has a rough outline of her story that might have just unluckily not been able to focus on any mudwings other than Clay for a book, but like you said, winglets could have focused on Umber and Sora at some point, but they don't and their storyline is just COMPLETELY dropped. Clay's book is also the introduction into the entire series, so it had to juggle a lot of things at once, and mudwings were just something that weren't really addressed until the very end of the book.
the mudwings have been severely shafted and they deserve another book with a protagonist. honestly if Tui does write another book with a mudwing protagonist i'll find somewhere to get the books i haven't read and read them just to get to the mudwing book
Mudwings being the only one to have only one protagonist isn't true. Skywings, leafwings, hivewings and rainwings all have one pov as well, though mudwings definitely have the least focus out of all the tribes
If there's ever an arc 4 i think the protags should be from those tribes with only one pov so far
@StormgemThunder i said that "other than the three Pantala dragons" mudwings are the only ones with one pov book, but you're right that rainwings and skywings don't get more than one either.
mudwings especially stand out to me because at least we have a fair bit of focus put on the rainwing and skywing cultures and how they work
Nice good point tho i was left with a lot of questions
I work at a library and see these books every day. I've read the first five, and just today I was flipping through one of the graphic novels (the graphic novel version of the 4th book specifically) and it was driving me up the wall that all these characters look the same! The author shot herself in the foot by making all the species so similar in so many ways--it makes it hard to make the individual characters of the same species look too different, otherwise you risk them looking too much like another species.
Even when I was first reading the books, it bothered me a lot that ALL of the dragons are winged quadrupeds with mostly the same proportions! There's so much you can do with dragons--why would you make all the different breeds so similar? Make one stand on two legs with shorter forelimbs! Make one only have wings and a back pair of legs! Make one ONLY have wings with no other limbs! Make one not have wings at all! There's SO MUCH you can do with limb arrangement alone!
Your criticisms are good and it's kindof a relief to see a video breaking down the issues with these books. (Not that I think they're The Worst Books Ever--I'm glad so many folks have found enjoyment in these books, and that the fandom has created such incredible works because of them! I'm not really in the fandom but I've seen a lot of incredible stuff come out of this fandom.) Great work!
instead of full on furr for the ice and silkwings, why not feathers like most dinosaurs had? as for the skywings, well... same deal for them, just far shorter avian feathers seeing as they were inspired off the old myths of fire breathing dragons.
Something that I realised when watching this video... Where did the Beetlewings go? You mentioned that Clearsight would need a lot of babies, which is true and insane in of itself... But what about the Beetlewings that did not reproduce with Clearsight? How did they just get wiped out by one Nightwing having an insanely big family? Did a whole tribe NOT have ANYONE that didn't want to hybridise? Or just didn't hybridise because they didn't meet Clearsight at all? Were they wiped out? Ostracised? What happened?! 2000 years is NOT a particularly long time for a species as long lived as this to hybridise in the first place but geez. Did the Beetlewings just line up like a cult?
The explanation we got is that the descendants of the BeetleWings who mated with Clearsight became the HiveWings, and the ones who didn’t became the SilkWings
@@CharcoalsDen Fair. 2000 years is still not a long time at all. It's a blink of an eye. So they should probably still be Beetlewings. Though 5000 years is enough time for them to have changed from whatever Freedom was and whatever dragons were around at the Scorching, into the tribes of today. So I guess dragons just have very malleable biology? They're more akin to dog breeds than different species as they can hybridise and produce fertile offspring. I dunno. The last arc was a wild enough ride without Clearsight being a Messiah Mother.
In my wings of fire continent, the tribes believe that the closest living relative to dragon tribes are jaquins, ( the things from Alena of Avalor.), as well as griffins. Also the tribes on the continent are a lot more distinct from one another, and none of them having cooky random abilities like most fan tribes do, to make them feel more similar to canon tribes in that regard. They are meant to feel like canon tribes.
If SkyWings had feathers they couldn't have firescales since their feathers would burn, rainwings could have feathers but it would disrupt scale changing.
Watching this video now makes me want to develop the Wings of Fire RPG that I manage. There's so much missing...
At the time of this post, this a highly objective ranking of the Pyrrhian Tribes based on the understanding of their society, history, biology, traditions and locations.
1) Nightwings
2) Rainwings
3) Sandwings
4) Icewings (barely beating out Skywings and Seawings after Arc 3)
5) Seawings and Skywings (they’re so close in this they basically tie)
7) Mudwings
Also on another note. Icewing talons are described as being serrated to walk on Ice yet their design has them as hooked as if for climbing. Also their wing claws don’t make any sense, especially in the fact that due to how curved it is, it should be serrated on the outside instead of the inside to properly give traction on Ice. That’s not even going into the fact that the Icewing wing talon would either cause discomfort and even dig into the wing when they’re spread out for flight.
Another thing I have to say is how the equator works on their planet. Like, how can it be ice and then on the next continent a jungle? Also, how can a mud kingdom be right beside a desert. There is no equator or anything and it just doesn’t really make sense how it works
I want to disagree a bit with the lack of uniqueness among the tribes (excluding silk wings and hive wings). All of these dragons (probably) can create fertile offspring. Some examples are whiteout (who is confirmed to have had dragonets by the existence of stone mover ), Darkstalker (he never actually had kids but I feel like seeing them in your visions of the future counts), and the entire hive wing tribe. For this to be possible, the species would have to be *extremely* genetically similar. They must have a common ancestor for hybrids to exist at all. It makes sense that they have a lot of similar features since very little evolution has occurred for hybrids (especially hybrids who can have children) to be possible.
You do make a fair point that they don’t have the most unique features. However, this makes the world make more sense, at least in my eyes.
This is mainly just my opinion so please nobody take it too seriously.
Otherwise I mostly agree. Great video and thank you for the content!
I don’t know why, but my mind keeps on thinking about giving sky wings AA guns (I call them AAD guns, Anti Air Dragon) and mudwings have artillery or cannons, but many that’s a bit too advanced for the pyrhhia dragons
I do agree with you a lot but A. some dragon tribes in Tui's opinion needed more character development than others. B. without the development of those spefic dragons/tribes, the plot and story would have been very different.
the thing that makes the least sense is clear sight made the hive wings and then beetle wing just disappear
Although I enjoyed Wings of Fire as a whole, looking back on it, I can see how the Lost Continent Prophecy arc was wholly unnecessary.
I disagree about the tribe designs. They look fine just the way they are, and more importantly, they look believable. Except for the SilkWings and HiveWings; they should have two wings apiece, not four. I like to think of the dragon tribes as descended from a common ancestor, like Galapagos tortoises and finches.
I never read the series but I am planing on to write my own dragon books :0
Cheese. How tf do they make cheese?
Jaws that can swallow a cow in two bites sure aren't going to encourage a cow to sit still and calmly be milked
Not to mention those claws are not suitable for milking whatsoever. Nor do I think scavengers would willingly work for dragons
I feel you don't give tui credit. Also it is Tuis book she can write it any way she wants. She more then likely wrote it the way she wants. All we can do is write and respect her idea.
Honestly I strongly agree with Ice and Sky needing plumage. Think about dinosaurs. Yes some were scaly like T-Rex, but you also had the feathery lads like Utahraptor, Therizinosaurus, and some Pteranodons. SkyWings should have feathers, while IceWings can have fur and feathery wings with a layer of blubber beneath. RainWings could have feathers too, and maybe NightWings could become wyverns for much more distinct silhouettes.
Dragon design. I hate how much impact these designs had on my "concept" of dragons then because of how uncreative they are and so I am now 💀
I really trying to come back to my old creativity to dragons.
I don't agree about Icewings tho. When I first saw them they was one of the most creative because I couldn't tell apart anyone except them and Mudwings
What do Warriors and Wings of Fire have in common?
The cultures are too similar and there are huge world building gaps.
5:49 was that a bill wurtz history of the entire world i guess reference?
Perhaps
It’s weird that tui focuses way to much on nightwings when she has stated they are not even her favirote tribe (I think she said sandwings are) I am totally sick of nightwings personally, also it think they honestly don’t have much good going for them because honestly they are just straight up evil and power hungry, I am totally sick of the excuses THEY. ARE. All of this easily makes nightwings my least favirote tribe plus Darkstalker is most nightwing and he is in my opinion the worst character in all of Wof.
👍🏻
I was confused when I heard the MHW theme at the start