You forgot one important aspect of Shelyn. She is the ultimate cinnamon roll. EVERYBODY loves her, even if that "love" is selfish and more possessive than self-sacrificing. She quite literally has no enemies.
@@mastertadakatsu no actually. She is the one entity her brother will not attack. In fact his clergy is punished severely for harming hers and has been known to go to the aid of hers on occasion. Usually both religious orders give each other a wide berth and try to ignore the other though. So even though he has been twisted beyond recognition it seems something of who her brother originally was lurks somewhere in side what he has become.
@Eliman8 I contend that Valerie is less an enemy of Shelyn, and more upset about the expectations the order placed on her. She has mundane griefs that taint her perspective of the goddess, but I recall no direct animosity.
Shelyn's past is really what I believe a deity should possess. A dark and difficult era that defined their lowest point, and is antithetical to their beliefs, yet showing that they never (or sometimes) caved into it. Another glorious explanation, and I love your organized explanations of the pantheons. Have a blessed day everyone! Thanks for the vid.
You did miss the fact that Shelyn, Sarenrae and Desna are a triad, though the goddesses keep the details on their romantic lives private for obvious reasons. (Which is why we don't know much aside from the fact that it's a thing, despite how adorable they sound and look in the one official art depicting them)
I stumbled on your channel the other day looking for a primer on Golarian (just starting a game in PF1e in that world for the first time)... and been binging so much of your stuff. It's so fantastically presented. This organization of the deities and grouping of them narratively works so darn well.
I really enjoy watching (or sometimes just listening) to your videos and detailed Pathfinder lore, helps me create better background stories for my Pathfinder characters and learn more about the rich history of Golarion. Thank you kindly for these great guides MythKeeper.
This was awesome. Love the new topic and your explanations are great. Clustering gods together like this really does make it easier to remember their names
Thanks! I was on the fence about it, but I'm glad I didn't just go alphabetical in the end. If even one person found this useful, I count that as a win!
The fact that Pathfinder has so much natural feeling diversity (Both in POC and LGBTQ+ aspects) has always made me happy! especially the cannon lesbian polycule of deities.
Paizo has felt like a company that has tried to have as much (accurate) representation as possible in their games. They don't always get it right of course, but you can tell their hearts are always in the right place.
@@TheMythKeeper I will also recommend you releasing a video focusing on this categorization you came up with. It would also be an opportunity to bring up other examples of traits you introduce or expand upon in your personal Pathfinder games. Such as particulars related to a class, ancestry, the months, and so-on- Paladin could be a title used by clerics, champions and fighters in one faith, while another includes monks, and then Nethys could call a particular kind of wizard a "paladin." Paladin is just a word now, distinct from champion, so why not utilize it?
@@ChronoHarvester Yeah its definitely worth knowing that the rules are an abstraction layer, designed so you and your friends can 'play at the world' but that the in-game language for things may not always be a direct match for the rules-terms for the same. A recent example is that if I decided to play a Prophet of Kalistrade (or a Kalistocrat) my title would be Prophet, but I could play that Prophet as a Witch, as an Oracle, or as a Shaman. Maybe even as a druid! Only if I choose to play as a Cleric or as an Inquisitor would I have to choose a Patron deity, and since the Kalistocrats are polytheistic or agnostic, I probably would avoid those classes even though they might feel more 'prophety' if that makes sense. This video could be a meta-discussion about approaching lore in your games, and finding elegant ways to immerse your players in the world without having them worry about the mechanics all the time. Sometimes that's quite difficult to do for some players.
@@TheMythKeeper Absolutely! I'm not surprised you play a Prophet, your Kalistrafe video had a ton of passion in it. Best video on the internet for that culture, that country.
Thank you for these videos! Truly informative and I just love how much I learn from them. You're doing a great job! Can't wait until you will be reviewing Nethys
5:42 that’s because Aroden is canonically dead and therefore can’t give anyone any spells EDIT: also, subbed. Proud to be here before the sub count is less than 500. I look forward to seeing your channel grow! Very good content. Cheers 🍻
Thanks Ser! I've been overwhelmed by the positive reception to the channel. Its definitely given me the fuel I needed to keep going. Thank you so much for subscribing!
Plus, while Rovagug is trapped in the Dead Vault, his fitful thrashings are believed to cause earthquakes and volcanoes, his worshipers are many among monstrous creatures (usually in direct competition with Lamashtu, which has come up more than once in Paizo's adventure paths), and the Spawn of Rovagug have been *very* active and memorable figures in Golarion's history, given that pretty much every one we've learned about has destroyed at least one kingdom.
Can I just say you have amazing voice to listen to while sleeping ? I love listening to lores while going to sleep and your voice was very relaxing I hope one day you do a audible xD
I have missed the new gods introduced in Pf 2 book "Gods and Magic", but maybe is a spoiler from the adventure paths of Pf 1. Good videos anyways, you are doing great. :D
Your channel and this video are highly underrated. The organizational structure you lay out for the gods seems really well thought out and very helpful if trying to remember the gods of Golarion or building a homemade pantheon. Great work. Please keep it up.
So I jsut found your channel and am loving these videos, really serving to remind me that Golarion is a really rich setting despite not having the lineage of some D&D Settings. I love your visualisation of the gods at the start of the video, I'm curious if that's something you'd be willing to make available for other folks to use? I know I'm a bit late to this but hopefully you'll still see the comment! :D
I'm gonna be honest though I've never made it to level 20 in any game but I think when I hit level 20 I should bet able to meet my god clearly I've earned it.
I wish you had credited the artwork. I've seen the art at 20:37 before, and it has been edited to cut out the artist's signature/username. It's disappointing to see in an otherwise great video. Creators should support creators, not distribute their work uncredited.
Thanks for the comment. The artist is Kiikiibee or Rakugaki and you can find more of her work here: kiikiibee.tumblr.com/archive I wasn't intentionally trying to cut out her signature, and if anyone asks for art I do always try to source it for them. At the very beginning I was trying to credit each artist, but it got too laborious with trying to keep a weekly scheduled (these are dense videos). If there's any other pieces you're interested in, please let me know.
@@TheMythKeeper Putting them in the show notes would not only help with exposure (Google search results) but also ensuring due credit is given. I appreciate that you respond to comments! A list and links in the show notes would be much better for artists and viewers, though. It's not easy at all to find your own comments and replies as a casual CZcams viewer. I only knew you'd responded because it's an ongoing discussion at all of my tables, and finding this comment in my history was an annoying process. Your videos get recommended often (they're top notch!) but we try to maintain ethics standards in those channels for the sake of our own artists, so we remove any video recs without proper credits. It's a tough world for creators of all sorts out there. 💕💕 I'd love to see a credits list on future videos! Of all the videos I've watched, yours are consistently among the most enjoyable.
Wasn't Irori once mortal? It was weird to hear him listed as one of the first gods, unless I'm misremembering. Still, this got me thinking: even the creation myth is lore-inaccurate, it might be true to life in the world of the game. How many "facts" did you grow up hearing that you later learned were simplified to the point of misinformation, or changed to suit a narrative? I vaguely remember some falsehood, widely believed at least in Cheliax, that paints Azmodeus in a favorable light that he hasn't bothered to correct yet. The world is complicated and Golarians don't have access to the official source books like we do, and it was fun to be reminded of that.
Think of the creation myths as theories put forward by religious scholars, but not necessarily an accurate description of events. I also subscribe to the theory that the gods in Pathfinder are clearly not omniscient so its likely they also don't have all the answers. As for Irori - perhaps he was always supposed to become a God - perhaps there was a different god of self-perfection at one time whose slot he took, etc... etc... There are many ways to explain his primary position in my pantheon. At the end of the day, its what worked for me, but it may not work for everyone.
@@jdhilde8871 I thought that was a lot rarer, but I think where I got confused was "only three people have passed the test of the Star Stone", but that's not the only path to godhood apparently.
@@flibbernodgets7018 Yeah only three past the test of the starstone. Irori was a human monk that became so perfect he became a God instead of just an outsider. Nethys was a wizard who accended by "gaining the ability to see everything" which his mortal mind could not handle
@@jdhilde8871 and the five together are known as the ascended, in technically aroden could also be counted there but cayden, irori, norgorber, iomeade and nethys are the ones that actively grant powers
You demoted Caiden Cailean, easily the most interesting deity in all of Pathfinder and in many ways the most logical god for adventurers to venerate, along with Gorum, the god of battle? I guess that I don't get that.
For me when I was doing my summaries for new players, it was about their cosmological relevance rather than their popularity. But as I said, that was just done for my own games (and to give me an order to go through the gods in these videos). I'm definitely not expecting anyone to adopt any of this.
@@TheMythKeeper I have a better understanding now after watching a couple more of your videos. I personally don't organize the deities this way, using a method closer to what the rulebooks outline instead, but I understand that you were trying to kind of tie them to creation. I'd have found a way to include Asmodeus and Gorum in that cycle, but I get what you were going for. I'll admit to being a Caiden Cailean fan, he made playing Clerics fun for me 10-15 years ago. Now some of my favorite PCs that I've played, in between running many P1 games, are a pair of very different Clerics of Caiden Cailean.
No one expects... ... other DMs to adopt their divine organization of Gods & Goddesses. Nevertheless, if happened and shall happen again. One must decide when their Divine Arrangement deserve its own deep-dive video to continue improving others understanding of Goleion Inner Sea pantheon.
wait why is a lore channel inventing lore? that muddies the waters completely and makes these useless. I cant watch without know what you have invented and what is canon....
Sorry for throwing you for a loop. Nothing is invented except the mnemonic device and the diagram I used to sequence the deities. Everything else is straight from the canon.
You forgot one important aspect of Shelyn. She is the ultimate cinnamon roll. EVERYBODY loves her, even if that "love" is selfish and more possessive than self-sacrificing. She quite literally has no enemies.
Doesn't her brother despise her?
@@mastertadakatsu no actually. She is the one entity her brother will not attack. In fact his clergy is punished severely for harming hers and has been known to go to the aid of hers on occasion. Usually both religious orders give each other a wide berth and try to ignore the other though. So even though he has been twisted beyond recognition it seems something of who her brother originally was lurks somewhere in side what he has become.
except Valerie lol
@@excalibur2772 Ugh, Valerie is the worst, though. lol
@Eliman8 I contend that Valerie is less an enemy of Shelyn, and more upset about the expectations the order placed on her. She has mundane griefs that taint her perspective of the goddess, but I recall no direct animosity.
Shelyn's past is really what I believe a deity should possess. A dark and difficult era that defined their lowest point, and is antithetical to their beliefs, yet showing that they never (or sometimes) caved into it. Another glorious explanation, and I love your organized explanations of the pantheons. Have a blessed day everyone! Thanks for the vid.
You did miss the fact that Shelyn, Sarenrae and Desna are a triad, though the goddesses keep the details on their romantic lives private for obvious reasons. (Which is why we don't know much aside from the fact that it's a thing, despite how adorable they sound and look in the one official art depicting them)
I did! Sorry about that 🙂
..... I've had a character worshiping the Prismatic Ray this entire time. Is *that* what that is?
@@livecatgrenades Yep~! Super fucking adorable ;p.
They also work together on some things because they are all good goddesses.
I stumbled on your channel the other day looking for a primer on Golarian (just starting a game in PF1e in that world for the first time)... and been binging so much of your stuff. It's so fantastically presented.
This organization of the deities and grouping of them narratively works so darn well.
Thank you so much! Really appreciate this :-) and welcome to the channel!
I really enjoy watching (or sometimes just listening) to your videos and detailed Pathfinder lore, helps me create better background stories for my Pathfinder characters and learn more about the rich history of Golarion. Thank you kindly for these great guides MythKeeper.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting!
Love to see this! Thank you for the videos, I've always felt pathfinder lore has desperately needed a youtube presence to get people involved more.
Thanks man, I’m trying!
Indeed!!!
This was awesome. Love the new topic and your explanations are great. Clustering gods together like this really does make it easier to remember their names
Thanks! I was on the fence about it, but I'm glad I didn't just go alphabetical in the end. If even one person found this useful, I count that as a win!
This is fantastic, love having more in depth lore of pathfinder. Would love a in-depth lore on big baddies/villains of adventure paths!
The fact that Pathfinder has so much natural feeling diversity (Both in POC and LGBTQ+ aspects) has always made me happy! especially the cannon lesbian polycule of deities.
Paizo has felt like a company that has tried to have as much (accurate) representation as possible in their games. They don't always get it right of course, but you can tell their hearts are always in the right place.
Boy oh boy. This is really great stuff! Thank you!
06:09 Perhaps this section can be released as a Short?
The way you organize the Gods is very useful.
This is a great idea, I have yet to produce any shorts! I'll try it out.
@@TheMythKeeper I will also recommend you releasing a video focusing on this categorization you came up with. It would also be an opportunity to bring up other examples of traits you introduce or expand upon in your personal Pathfinder games. Such as particulars related to a class, ancestry, the months, and so-on- Paladin could be a title used by clerics, champions and fighters in one faith, while another includes monks, and then Nethys could call a particular kind of wizard a "paladin." Paladin is just a word now, distinct from champion, so why not utilize it?
@@ChronoHarvester Yeah its definitely worth knowing that the rules are an abstraction layer, designed so you and your friends can 'play at the world' but that the in-game language for things may not always be a direct match for the rules-terms for the same. A recent example is that if I decided to play a Prophet of Kalistrade (or a Kalistocrat) my title would be Prophet, but I could play that Prophet as a Witch, as an Oracle, or as a Shaman. Maybe even as a druid! Only if I choose to play as a Cleric or as an Inquisitor would I have to choose a Patron deity, and since the Kalistocrats are polytheistic or agnostic, I probably would avoid those classes even though they might feel more 'prophety' if that makes sense.
This video could be a meta-discussion about approaching lore in your games, and finding elegant ways to immerse your players in the world without having them worry about the mechanics all the time. Sometimes that's quite difficult to do for some players.
@@TheMythKeeper Absolutely! I'm not surprised you play a Prophet, your Kalistrafe video had a ton of passion in it. Best video on the internet for that culture, that country.
@@ChronoHarvester Thank you! Kind words 🙂
I just started playing Kingmaker & I'm really enjoying these videos 👌
I am so excited to dive into this lore. Thanks for the great content!
OMG that Cayden disrespect. Great video tho. Nice work.
Haha! Thank you!
Thank you for these videos! Truly informative and I just love how much I learn from them. You're doing a great job! Can't wait until you will be reviewing Nethys
Nethys is coming! He's up the week after next 🙂
5:42 that’s because Aroden is canonically dead and therefore can’t give anyone any spells
EDIT: also, subbed. Proud to be here before the sub count is less than 500. I look forward to seeing your channel grow! Very good content. Cheers 🍻
Thanks Ser! I've been overwhelmed by the positive reception to the channel. Its definitely given me the fuel I needed to keep going. Thank you so much for subscribing!
Plus, while Rovagug is trapped in the Dead Vault, his fitful thrashings are believed to cause earthquakes and volcanoes, his worshipers are many among monstrous creatures (usually in direct competition with Lamashtu, which has come up more than once in Paizo's adventure paths), and the Spawn of Rovagug have been *very* active and memorable figures in Golarion's history, given that pretty much every one we've learned about has destroyed at least one kingdom.
Can I just say you have amazing voice to listen to while sleeping ? I love listening to lores while going to sleep and your voice was very relaxing I hope one day you do a audible xD
I agree. Very Liam Neeson.
I second this.
Many nights 🌙 @TheMythKeeper playlist are on repeat while I attempt to slumber.
Great video, very well scripted and the video time marks are always appreciated. Keep up the great work 😄
I have missed the new gods introduced in Pf 2 book "Gods and Magic", but maybe is a spoiler from the adventure paths of Pf 1. Good videos anyways, you are doing great. :D
A simply amazing way to organize even the God's. Looks like I'll be learning yet another history from a make believe place
Your channel and this video are highly underrated. The organizational structure you lay out for the gods seems really well thought out and very helpful if trying to remember the gods of Golarion or building a homemade pantheon. Great work. Please keep it up.
Very nice and quite a useful organization schedule.
Cheers!
Thanks Fred! Glad its useful!
Loved your diagram.
This is very useful - thanks!
You're so welcome! Glad you enjoyed
So I jsut found your channel and am loving these videos, really serving to remind me that Golarion is a really rich setting despite not having the lineage of some D&D Settings.
I love your visualisation of the gods at the start of the video, I'm curious if that's something you'd be willing to make available for other folks to use? I know I'm a bit late to this but hopefully you'll still see the comment! :D
imgur.com/LUaOTfJ
Diggin it
Love your content. Keep it up!
I'm gonna be honest though I've never made it to level 20 in any game but I think when I hit level 20 I should bet able to meet my god clearly I've earned it.
I don’t even play pathfinder, I just like the lore being read to me by Qui-Gon Jinn.
That's the weirdest complement (I think?) anyone has ever paid me
I didn’t mean it insulting, but I’d say it’s more an observation. You literally sound like Liam Neeson when you’re in lore mode lol
Now waiting for your coverage of the Empyreal Lords
It’s coming ;-)
Awesome stuff! Anyway to get hold of those diagrams ?
Would love to use them with my group
i.imgur.com/LUaOTfJ.jpg - You bet!
Thank you, new to Pathfinder and this is fantastic
LOVE the idea of an "evil" god whose followers protect the followers of a "good" god
Yeah its pretty great
Could you provide your homebrew divine category sheet for use by others? A pdf?
Check the link in the description ;-)
I wish you had credited the artwork. I've seen the art at 20:37 before, and it has been edited to cut out the artist's signature/username. It's disappointing to see in an otherwise great video. Creators should support creators, not distribute their work uncredited.
Thanks for the comment. The artist is Kiikiibee or Rakugaki and you can find more of her work here: kiikiibee.tumblr.com/archive
I wasn't intentionally trying to cut out her signature, and if anyone asks for art I do always try to source it for them. At the very beginning I was trying to credit each artist, but it got too laborious with trying to keep a weekly scheduled (these are dense videos).
If there's any other pieces you're interested in, please let me know.
@@TheMythKeeper Putting them in the show notes would not only help with exposure (Google search results) but also ensuring due credit is given. I appreciate that you respond to comments! A list and links in the show notes would be much better for artists and viewers, though.
It's not easy at all to find your own comments and replies as a casual CZcams viewer. I only knew you'd responded because it's an ongoing discussion at all of my tables, and finding this comment in my history was an annoying process.
Your videos get recommended often (they're top notch!) but we try to maintain ethics standards in those channels for the sake of our own artists, so we remove any video recs without proper credits. It's a tough world for creators of all sorts out there. 💕💕 I'd love to see a credits list on future videos! Of all the videos I've watched, yours are consistently among the most enjoyable.
In Pathfinder universe gods can manifest avatar on to mortal realm?
Yes, Aroden did this a lot. Killed the Whispering Tyrant that way, and the avatar of Deskari. See my Worldwound deep dive video for more details!
👏👏👏👏👏
Is there a way to grab that infographic you made?
You bet! - i.imgur.com/LUaOTfJ.jpg
@@TheMythKeeper Thank you very much You rock!
Cool if I steal this setup for the gods?
Of course! That's why I shared it.
Wasn't Irori once mortal? It was weird to hear him listed as one of the first gods, unless I'm misremembering.
Still, this got me thinking: even the creation myth is lore-inaccurate, it might be true to life in the world of the game. How many "facts" did you grow up hearing that you later learned were simplified to the point of misinformation, or changed to suit a narrative? I vaguely remember some falsehood, widely believed at least in Cheliax, that paints Azmodeus in a favorable light that he hasn't bothered to correct yet.
The world is complicated and Golarians don't have access to the official source books like we do, and it was fun to be reminded of that.
Think of the creation myths as theories put forward by religious scholars, but not necessarily an accurate description of events. I also subscribe to the theory that the gods in Pathfinder are clearly not omniscient so its likely they also don't have all the answers. As for Irori - perhaps he was always supposed to become a God - perhaps there was a different god of self-perfection at one time whose slot he took, etc... etc... There are many ways to explain his primary position in my pantheon. At the end of the day, its what worked for me, but it may not work for everyone.
Irori, nethys, and Iomedae were all once mortal.
@@jdhilde8871 I thought that was a lot rarer, but I think where I got confused was "only three people have passed the test of the Star Stone", but that's not the only path to godhood apparently.
@@flibbernodgets7018 Yeah only three past the test of the starstone. Irori was a human monk that became so perfect he became a God instead of just an outsider. Nethys was a wizard who accended by "gaining the ability to see everything" which his mortal mind could not handle
@@jdhilde8871 and the five together are known as the ascended, in technically aroden could also be counted there but cayden, irori, norgorber, iomeade and nethys are the ones that actively grant powers
You demoted Caiden Cailean, easily the most interesting deity in all of Pathfinder and in many ways the most logical god for adventurers to venerate, along with Gorum, the god of battle? I guess that I don't get that.
For me when I was doing my summaries for new players, it was about their cosmological relevance rather than their popularity. But as I said, that was just done for my own games (and to give me an order to go through the gods in these videos). I'm definitely not expecting anyone to adopt any of this.
@@TheMythKeeper I have a better understanding now after watching a couple more of your videos. I personally don't organize the deities this way, using a method closer to what the rulebooks outline instead, but I understand that you were trying to kind of tie them to creation. I'd have found a way to include Asmodeus and Gorum in that cycle, but I get what you were going for.
I'll admit to being a Caiden Cailean fan, he made playing Clerics fun for me 10-15 years ago. Now some of my favorite PCs that I've played, in between running many P1 games, are a pair of very different Clerics of Caiden Cailean.
No one expects...
... other DMs to adopt their divine organization of Gods & Goddesses.
Nevertheless, if happened and shall happen again. One must decide when their Divine Arrangement deserve its own deep-dive video to continue improving others understanding of Goleion Inner Sea pantheon.
No video on Apsu?
Not yet, but check the video on Dahak in my Evil Gods section. The Apsu/Dahak story is told there.
wait why is a lore channel inventing lore? that muddies the waters completely and makes these useless. I cant watch without know what you have invented and what is canon....
Sorry for throwing you for a loop. Nothing is invented except the mnemonic device and the diagram I used to sequence the deities. Everything else is straight from the canon.