What Are Electrical Code Requirements For UFER Grounding On A Home?
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- petersonelectr... - Talking to you about the code requirements and our installation process with UFRD or Ufer grounding & bonding at a residential home.
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These guys got it all wrong. The concrete encased electrode IS the rebar in the footing. You dont have to run 20 feet of copper in the footing. What a waste of materials. Go back and check your codebook fellas. The ground rods must be in contact with permanently moist earth. We drive ground rods as a supplement to the concrete encased electrode or the underground piping (water piping). Nowadays, contractors are finding that plumbers are cheaping out by installing pvc water mains so there is not 20 feet of copper pipe in the dirt to serve as a grounding electrode, hence the need for the ground rod. Also, your point of attachment to the UFER ground must remain accessible. Way to go, thanks for adding to the confusion.
With a ufer ground you don't have to drive a ground rod, right? As you stated he could have simply bonded to the rebar.
@@JesseKlaus CEE don't need supplemental elrctrodes. Unless you feel ground rods really help.
I'm a city inspector in Texas....great video! I'm glad you mentioned to make sure the ground clamp is for direct burial. I also frequently run into situations at the foundation inspection which includes checking the ufer ground where the vapor barrier plastic is installed underneath the ground wire. I had 2 today of this same thing. The vapor barrier under the CEE negates the whole reason for this method. I make sure they cut away the vapor barrier or pull it back so the CEE does indeed have direct contact with the earth.
Thanks for watching. I try to explain this to the customer, but it seems like some concrete companies are always in a rush and it is a good way to get failed. What do you expect the electrician to do it they could not control it?
I feel for you man. I can only appreciate an electrician that is invested in his craft and can post it in a video, that is a brave and impressive feat. Iv been in the trade only for about 5 years now. Clearly you know what you are doing. But in my 5 years in the trade I have noticed a couple big flaws in electricians. 1.) If you don't have YOUR experience, you don't have experience at all. 2.) Especially for older tradesmen, they swear they are the unicorn guy who is Gods gift to another tradesman and you can never do anything right to impress them god forbid you quote the code one article off even when you know what you are trying to say. Keep up the good work, you are a great source of knowledge for the young guys like me.
Thanks, I have been in the trade 21 years now and it is something that totally agree with you on, especially with inspectors, who want to flunk you on one item and than go back the following inspection and flunk you on another item that could have been said on the first failure. It is their way of being unprofessional. I had this happen last week on a bunch of lighting in a grid ceiling on ceiling tiles, he did not want any NM Romex cables, article 334.12.(2) under use not permitted, than he could of told me that he did not like my 1/2" Ko plastic NM bushings, instead he failed me and wanted 1/2" metal ko push on caps. He was right that there is one part of the code that talks about the consistent of the same material, "If it is it's purpose", but I feel it was also ok, because it is a bushing that seals. Grey area, so in the 2017 NEC Hand Book, I looked up in the back one the Index, "Knockouts", and it says opening to be closed, 110.12(A), 314.17(A). One code says that, "openings through which conductors enter shall be closed in an approved manner", the other one states, basically 110.12(A) is long, in a nutshell the opening hall be closed to protect the equivalent of the wall of the equipment. SO< plastic is not acceptable but metal. The inspector stated to me that if something arcs on a 1/8th of an amp LED 2'x2' drop in light, it could arc out of the ko NM bushing vs the metal ko plug. He probably is right, but what is sad about the experience last week is his method of inspecting and his attitude was basically "Figure it out". I wish I could say it gets better in the field the longer you hang in there, but dealing with attitudes and inspectors should be in article 90 and state, "Don't be a Butthole".
The experience made it harder between me and the customer, it delayed him and pressured us to get this fixed TWICE ASAP. If he would have just said both failures, and what made me call him out was that he did not state where these code articles were and I looked them up. Yes he was right but being DEAD RIGHT, gets you No where. What I think most city and state inspectors do not realize is that we are in a learning trade and when we get our license we begin to practice what we have been learning by DOING our trade. What I also do not think they realize is that we are humans and may or may not know everything about the request to what "their view is on the code articles".
What is so sad, is that we are also their customer, we pulled the permit and invited them to correct our work for the respect of the customer. I told the inspector that the original insulation was there and the NM cable that was ran was a mess, we gutted it all out but he did not want NM in the ceiling. So, we went back on 20 lights and three switch legs and installed ENT pipe, (362) and he stated to the owner when I was not there, and I quote what the owner said, "I'll pass it but it is not something that is normally practiced and not sure I like." I called the inspector again and told him what my customer stated, and said to him that it is not a plenum rated ceiling like 300.22 (C) states. Amazing, I told him, just cause you are not us to it does not mean it can't be done. Sure normally I would use MC cable, it is lite and fast, but I did not want to throw out over 300' of NM, so I sleeved it.
anyways it is really disappointing, we are humans but never allow to make mistakes in this field without it effecting our schedule and time to repair.
I can relate man, I had an inspector fail me on a SG blue box that needed to be moved 1.5in more for the clearance from a sink to make it 6ft. away, an easy move since there was no drywall installed yet, so I moved it while he was there. And a ceiling fan box- Now this box was metal with a 1/2in knockout and a plastic bushing installed and designed to fit right up against the stud. When you push it up flush with the drywall and secure it I guess it looked like a pancake box. He fails me on this because he thought it to be a flippin pancake box and couldn't see up into the space inside! I second guessed myself because I was so caught off guard by the accusation. Why would anyone do that to themself? Do I take him to the roof and push him off? What is the meaning to all of this! Anyway I was an apprentice at the time time and your right, the foolishness never ends. There is always 'That Guy'.
So hey, I see you use the NEC handbook instead of the regular printed version. Do you think it helps you more or less with your ability to do your work? Iv been thinking about getting one, but hadn't seen anyone that uses it on my side of the moon.
I like the handbook, the pictures seem to help the customers when we are estimating on the meet and greet.
Good work. I installed many ufers and the ufer connection has to have a mud ring on the wall where it connects from the underground to above ground so the rebar is visable. This is the way they designed our job .Keep up the good work..
I believe you have miss interpreted the code.
1- you don't need 20ft of ground wire in the slab the rear needs to be 20 in length
2- once you hit the user bond there is not need for any ground rods
After that I couldn't watch any longer
Thanks for explaining this, and showing the tricks you use. One request I have if it is possible, can the banner fade out after the first few seconds? It is difficult to see what you are indicating at times because of the banner. Thanks!
Yep. Great video, but lose the banner.
Why the grounding rods when you have ufer with the rebar in the concrete ?
@@FunHog69 Concrete Encased Electrodes were never required to be supplemented. The article you are alluding to is for rod, pipe or plate electrodes. They must be supplemented if their resistance is greater than 25 ohms. Also underground water pipes used as an electrode must be supplemented.
Nice job. Appreciate you taking the time to series this project.
About your ground rod, technically the code states that "except that, where rock bottom is encountered, the electrode shall be driven at an oblique angle not to exceed 45 degrees from the vertical or, where rock bottom is encountered at an angle up to 45 degrees, the electrode shall be permitted to be buried in a trench that is at least 30 in deep". So you would need to drive it in vertically unless you actually hit solid rock. The angle and horizontal options are only if the first method fails.
You are allowed to lay a rod down like this 30# below grade.
Thanks for the video! Building my own shop, and running 100amp sub panel. Great info on what the heck the ufer is all about!
Why run an ufer and a the grounding rods? Sorry Im trying to understand if they work together or if they are for different systems, i.e ufer for smaller 100 am panel and ground rods for 200 amp or something. Thank you for helping someone trying to learn
Just did my first underground and ufer on 15k sq ft house . Great vids and I learn a lot from your vid... we used all schedule 80 ... I couldn't find where it said to use schedule 80 above ground ...
Nice job
If we have more then 20 feet of rebar in the footings. We are required to tie in a full 20 foot #4 rebar that extends 4 inches out of the top of the poured foundation. That's in virginia though. We aren't required to run all that pvc here.
Good Work! Good video!!!!
Why did you put 2 ground rods instead of using the rebar alone with a 20 feet wire gauge 4 ? Did you over do it? What I learned from a new construction there will be no need of the 2 rods, what do you think your experience matter thanks. 😅
Ur great” iv been watching before I got my license and I’m still a fan. I love that fkn sweeping elbow. Absolutely loved it! (Fk ah 90•)
This could not be more misleading and confusing. There is NO need for 20 feet of copper wire buried. Also no need for those ground clamps. The basis if this approach from a code perspective is to use the rebar (min 1/2" ) in the pour as the grounding electrode. If rebar lengths shorter than 20 feet then standard tie wire is OK for connecting rebar together. If NO REBAR available, then you need to install the copper wire. Furthermore, unless AHJ determines otherwise, there is no need for additional ground rods. You made something very simple into something very complicated, confusing, and expensive.
Agreed! 👍
So when you have rebar that’s less than 20’ even if it’s connected together, then that is when you run a 20’ copper wire? It seems like such a COMMON mistake of many thinking they need to run 20’ of copper in the rebar. I wonder what’s causing this confusion. 😊
Nice 👍
So if lightning hits the ground it blows your foundation up.
Acorns are not "direct burial clamps"
Thank you sir
For the 2020 code in a new foundation can you bond the stem walls instead of the footing?
That is a hell of a ground rod ,never knew about following the footer like that .
Thanks
I thought the ufer ground is continuous and runs to the rebar and ground rods and terminates in the meter pedestal
I may have misheard but I thought he said 210.52 a couple of times. It's 250.52.
I understand about ground rods, ufer I'm confused about can you explain to me what is it designed to protect? Is it for lighting strike and or grounding electrical service?
Lightning strike. Too high of resistance to work for grounding equipment effectively; won't allow enough current through to trip the breaker of the equipment with a ground fault.
Here's a doozy for your inspectors, and how THEY seem to interpret the code. I do large generator installations and our (subcontractor) electrician installs a duplex outlet inside the cabinet for eventual connection of a block heater and battery charger. One inspector says that outlet needs to have a "weatherproof when in use" type cover, but it's already inside a UL rated weatherproof cabinet. (huh?) He also says it needs to be a GFCI unless it's a dedicated outlet, so we explain that these 2 devices will be installed by the generator company (that's us) after everything is wired. Sounds dedicated to me. The inspector says he will only approve a single outlet as dedicated, not a duplex. IOW, if we have 2 accessories then there needs to be 2 separate 2x4 boxes with 2 separate receptacles. Last I looked at the code those dedicated outlets only need to be GFCI if accessible to the customer for general use and those covers he spoke of are only necessary when outside in the weather. They are inside a closed cabinet. Go figure that these inspectors will grind a nut when they feel like it.
Sounds like he is grasping for something to nail you on. That is odd, we are not allowed to install a single plug and call it good. It has to be GFCI period with our inspectors. I agree with you that it is only for your use and is already in a dry area.
@@Petersonelectricllc… Forgot to mention that it's the gen mfgr recommendation NOT to install a GFCI due to typical service intervals on the gen set being 6 - 12 months. IOW, nobody testing the GFCI feature on a regular basis so if it fails and the circuit goes open the set may have a dead battery or fail to start when the power goes out. As I see it, this is one town and one inspector out of 5 counties we work in. Something smells fishy. OTOH, the inspector has moved on so no longer an issue in that town.
@@rupe53 GFCI, not GFIC.
@@illestofdemall13 ... thanks. I don't know where my head was that day.
Isn't the grounding wire supposed to be bare solid.
Is there a cover that is used to protect the ufer connection?
Yes you should have a cover. two gang mud ring with a 5/8" rise and a two gang plastic cover plate screwing to the mudring and then label the plate UFER
In residential, with a 200 Amp service, what is the MAX AMPS allowed to RETURN back to the utility, VIA the UFER?
Don't know if you guys are still monitoring this, but I have a bunch of new builds I think are using this but CATV installers are having a hard time finding the communications bond point. Any idea what to tell them to look for? The meter for electric is in the easement, so it's hard to tell exactly where the electric comes in from the outside of the house.
If possible come off of the 1st point of disconnect of the main breaker on the structure. If not possible, I would go off of the cold water, than you do not have to go in the service equipment. Assuming you are a remodel. If new construction you have to come off of a ufer. Article 250.94 talks about your ISBB.
They need to run another #4 copper from the panel, and mount a bonding bridge on the wall for communications
A intersystem bonding point at the electric service is required for new construction. The bonding point is a bridge or in some areas just bond wire that is accessible.
Bonding CATV, phone or other LV equipment to an interior metal water pipe system is not very reliable. Too many plumbers cut sections of the water pipe system out and install PEX for additions, repairs, etc.interrupting the electrical ground continuity potentially resulting in no ground at the equipment.
I have a question. When you bond the rebar could you continue with that same wire to bond the ground rods then stub only one wire.
Read 250.50 - 250.53 and 250.64
I was just curious. I didn’t mean to step on your toes
JOSH BARRON no worries. It actually states no other electrodes needed if you use this. I do not agree with this nor Practice this bare min. Requirement.
I mean in the trench, can you just bond the rebar and then continue your wire to hit the ground rods in the trench and then go up with one wire to go to the panel
As opposed to having one wire for the ground rods and one wire for that rebar
Can you even get #4 wire in solid?
I never seen one in but I guess if you know the right people and have the cash you can get anything
Sch 8o for high voltage?
But this is medium voltage.
It is low voltage. Technically, medium voltage starts at 1000V. I think what he meant by high voltage is that it's more than 48V.
I was told sch 80 for anything service related, isn't just the wall thickness of the PVC?
No need rods you have rebar only one the other water pipe plastic water no need coper you need. 0.26 to much money
Huh??