The hardest and most important thing I learned in Codependents Anonymous was that it isn't appropriate to give unsolicited advice, and that we have to stay within our own boundaries and not infringe on other people with unasked-for "help."
If someone I considered my friended didn’t tell me they thought what I was doing was a bad idea, I would honestly not think they where my real friend. Then again online to me is not real life and a lot of people are hanging around others and being phony, that’s probably why people don’t seem to really be making friends anymore. Also if you can run away from someone cuz they gave you unsolicited advice and your were “friends” then you should redefine your definition of friend. Again leading me to believe online is not real life.
@@ReginaMcNeish - Regina, there is a middle road: if u see a friend doing something and u feel they might benefit from ur warming, foresight, feeling, intuitionor experience. Ask them if they are open to hear it, and if yes when and how. So then u still give THEM the choice without just withholding info. Also have no judgment if they dont wish to hear it, or do hear it but eventually jut do their own olan without applying the advice. This way its truly onconditional and respectful. NVC offers excellent tools for this.
I come from a family that has strong opinions on what anyone should do in life. And yes it's unabashed Arrogance. And yes it has hurt their relationships! My Mom actually stopped a waitress and told her that her glasses were the wrong shape for her face and she should do another shape she suggested! A complete stranger and that was just one of hundreds of examples! For my family, It's a neurological thing I'm certain of. I also have to catch myself as I have the same leanings! I know how much I hate it when I'm told what I have to do and and the demands when I don't follow the "right" advise. I'm used to it by now and don't let them sway me. I have to wear my own Big Girl Pants and make my own decisions that are in line with my own morals, wants, and needs. They are not me and simply can't dictate what will work for me. Lol, I want to forward this video but I'm certain it won't be well received! And of course I'll be the arrogant one leaving the proverbial book behind! Ugh. It's a family thing!
When people say “never give unsolicited advice,” it makes me wonder what their friendships are like. Sounds robotic, like everyone is on their best behavior and following a script. I want authenticity from my friends, though of course I’m free to take or reject their advice.
Of course telling someone, “Never give unsolicited advice” would be hypocrisy, unless the person had just asked you, “What’s your opinion on giving unsolicited advice?”
When ppl complain to me about a life situation or a work situation now, especially if it's a repeated complaint, I now say: "Are you just venting, or do you want advice?" and then I go from there. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
So, some people go into a complain but don't want a solution. What's the point of bringing up if not to resolve. someone use to tell me something and get annoyed after I tried to come up with reasons and solutions. Why say things like 'I wonder why so and so did that" if they really don't care. Why say things like a question if they don't want and answer.
Yes!! Do that. I have certain friends who don't realize that I am not looking to them for solutions, I'm just talking about what's on my mind. The suggestions come but they are never appropriate for me for whichever reason. So I get frustrated explaining why all those things won't work. I probably come off sounding stubborn and self defeating. I was just venting!
@@Captain_MonsterFart Yes you likely do if you are telling me a problem of course i would assume you want a solution, then for you to continue whining without doing something about it frustrating. Be thinking why you are asking for advice if nothing I say is good enough
I think it's not only what you say, it's how you say something, too. The insisting on beeing right crossed the line. As the fairy said, it's arrogant to think that she knows best what is right for another person. And her thought to call and rub it under her friends face seemed cruel and narcissistic. No wonder she was cancelled by her friend.
There were times when I held back from advice or criticism because of the idea that I don't know better and turns out they appreciated my opinion in the end. I guess the important thing is to avoid pressure, after expressing yourself and feeling rejected...
This story is not just about a pushy friend at all. It's about someone ghosting you for being pushy on an insight you already agreed on initially to go against it for the sake of what _others_ think is better for you, then publicly expressing said "insight" after your decision didn't work out. First friend made a mistake, yet the other one did multiple things to hurt them consciously?
Yes!! Please. If I disagree with you that's fine, we can disagree but one of my good friends told me after I finally left after heartbreaking years of being married to someone I wasn't compatible with that she never really liked him for me. I was shocked she never said anything. I asked her when she thought that and it was when we were still dating. I don't have sisters, a mom a cousin I trust my friends & kind of want and need them to help see the forest when all I can see is trees. Tell someone, and also it's fine to tell someone to mind their business you weren't asking for advice but it's also ok to take advice in and decide if it's right for you without making the other person wrong. Like we're all humans just doing our best!
I feel you Cecilia.. There is a phrase like “do you want to win/be right or do you want peace?” Maybe the friend knew once she accepted or quit the job there will be an uncomfortable conversation like “I told you so, I know better” so she went no contact. The fact Cecilia wanted so much to be credited with the dog show and the reason her friend quited, I feel like Cecilia wants to feel seen and heard, to be told “yes, you are right” wich is nothing wrong in wanting that, but if we push too much to be right and to be credited, people will run from us. Maybe we have to work in why we need to be right, and give ourselves compassion and understanding, talk to our inner child who is asking to be seen and do it ourselves.
I think people with cptsd see things well before others develop that awareness. I think we also take at face value others requests for honesty and clarity, not realising that what they actually want is support and reassurance. I have gotten into trouble with this numerous times and struggle with friendships due to my bluntness and saying it like it is. I am not trying to be mean, I think in my mind I am trying to save them from going through the pain. The classic fixer mentality...
It's also not your fault if someone asks for honesty and you give it! Don't ask if you don't want to know. I feel like taking people as they present is trusting them and they should be grateful for that, but people aren't honest with themselves I suppose.
I have a friend who hyper-focuses on other people's lives and I never thought much of it (I just saw it as regular gossip) until she started doing it to me. The last time it happened we had a huge falling-out because I was shocked *anyone* was observing things in my life that closely, and not everything she said was nice either. She gave me a detailed assessment of myself and the things I was doing. It doesn't matter to me whether she was wrong or right. Someone focusing on my personal life so much is almost disturbing. We are not in touch any more.
Same thing happen to me. Friends for abot 2 decades then the last 4-5 years of our friendship she started to minimazing me and my doings, life etc. And she tried gaslight me to. It was horrible but then I told her that I dont wanna to be her friend if she do not explain what's wrong. I did not get any answer and it was frosty between us for about 7 month then she called me last week. She did not care anything of me, no explain att all - only telling me diffuse words that she felt that I havet threat her bad. 🤔😒 I have lost 2 near friends (they died) - one in januari and my ex-partner last week. She did not even care ... no sorrow att all about that and not asking anything of "How are You". All was about her. She talked about her life, other People I don't even not, the weather etc for one hour. When we hang up the phone I really get angry. If she call me anymore I'm not gonna to answer. And I do not gonna to call her again.
Same. I made a recent friend. We seemed to have a lot in common for a few months. The red flags were there but I unfortunately ignored them. There came a point when I realized this would never be a healthy friendship and ended it.
@Leigh Ann Walters ... yes my sister too, she is very controlling. Nowadays I see why she is like that, she is just as anxious as I am, it comes out in different ways ... she is not a bad person at all ... I have eventually seen my own unsolicited advice given to people less scary than my sister and still she never stops trying to instruct me, or manipulate me into doing what she thinks is right for me ..(for her, really) ... and now I understand that it's not ok to give unbidden advice, I can't tell her what to do - not that she would let me. Inside I obsess about pointing out how we were both traumatised, and all the unfair things she has done... and to stop controlling any aspect of my life. Blah blah sorry to go on... a few days ago I messaged her that i won't be in contact with her for a while. I am desperate for a break from the relentless pressure, I often don't answer the phone, all that, ... stop playing this game and have a chance to be clear about my life, my needs. Sorry to go on, it was a relief that someone has also dealt with this their whole life, specifically with a sister. I Hope all is good with you, all the best, thank-you.
@@zeenatbaer138 Did you tell her that you feel like she is trying to control you and your life? Maybe she oblivious that you feel that way, and that she is doing it. Who knows. Good luck. Family relationships are always the harder, because you would love to just break it for good, but the guilt will bother you still.
I would appreciate a friend like Cecilia. She is insightful, honest and caring. They got along just fine until Cecilia told her the truth. Cecilia was right and her friend was too insecure to admit her mistake. A friend doesn't let a friend walk into a bad deal. Maybe she went too overboard in telling her the job was wrong, but her heart was in the right place as was her mind. She would be someone I would be grateful to call a friend. Now you can all yell at me.
Sometimes it's not what is said, but how it's said and how many times it's said. Care can become control very easily. And, if the nature of the friendship has power imbalance, it can end. But who is to say time won't heal the wounds. Perhaps Linda and Cecelia will be able to find a way back to each other.
Yeah. I lost a friend while trying to comfort her in her breakup with a guy she later married. I made the mistake of telling her why she dodged a bullet. One conversation, man.
I think that's different...you were supporting her in her decision. It was her decision...any gf is going to hype up their friend in pain. This writer was trying to control the friend. You weren't❤
I call this earworming, where someone asks for input, you give them ideas, they get defensive and shut it down in some way, but then later when the threat of you is gone they turn around and adopt the idea as if it were their own. Sometimes consciously but most often I've seen it play out subconsciously. I've stopped being offended by it and recognize now it comes from a place of insecurity on their part. If I don't want an idea to get earwormed I just don't mention it, but if I think the idea needs to exist in the world no matter the circumstances of its birth, so to speak, I say it into the void, lol. I agree that we're not here to fix people, tho. That's another lesson, still learning.
“Threat of you” is gone. That is a kernel of truth. And then there is the “rewriting the narrative” of where they genesises the idea. They rewrite it to be the hero/right one. It’s a flooding feeling of dismissal and even making you invisible. Advice is a habit I’m breaking.
I agree with you 100%. There is definitely something subconscious going on when someone (eg Linda) speaks about something but then the other (Celia) is supposed to not comment. Assuming Celia is coming from a place of compassion and caring, I don’t think you can blame someone for wanting to help. It’s human nature and we are designed to do that - to look after each other.
Absolutely correct. Cecelia was honest and direct. This other lady dissed her. She wasn’t honest and direct in return . I think Cecelia only was trying to reach out to a cowardly and underhanded person. So many ridiculous unspoken social etiquette cues.
I once ended a friendship with someone who gave a lot of advice. I felt like they were trying to parent me. Meanwhile, they didn’t really have their own life together. I distanced from the friendship because I began to associate stress with them rather than a good time.
Harsh! It doesn't sound from the letter like the letter-writer "pushed" her at all! The friend initially agreed with the writer! I think the writer showed a lot of self-restraint. Here's my unsolicited advice: "Cecelia" is better off without "Linda".
I struggle with this so much. Not to get too pushy or over explanatory about what I think my friends should do. I'm actively forcing myself to back off. It hurts, but I've realized being too much hurts more.
I also struggle with this. Having CPTSD makes you fearful for yourself and your friends and loved ones. You can see the train wreck coming from a mile away. You want to scream, but instead you smile and try to support them through the crisis. I’m getting better at helping others by talking about my own journey and not giving direct advice unless it’s asked for.
Get engaged in ur own life. So much that u dont have time to bother about others. Stay in ur own lane. Tell ur friends that if they need help or advice they can call u. If they dont ask just listen (use NVC empathic listening steps). If u have thoughts u van offer: do wish to hear my thoughts or opinion/feeling/experience with this ? If they say no, leave it. If they day yes discuss when and how the message would be bet delivered PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THEIR OWN MISTAKES, LEARN THEIR OWN LESSONS AND HAVE THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES. We are not God deciding for them. This s a world of free will & trial and error Channeling Jesus & Ananda by TLS has excellent videos about this subject as well. Bery practical and insightful just as this channel (CCF).
I agree with Anna. Also I learned to be careful with online friends. They are often just limerence objects, I don't really know them, I just add imagined qualities. And try to help imaginary person thinking that I know what the problem is.
Friends normally say they wish you had given advice after the fact, but never BEFORE the fact. I usually tell friends I won’t give advice even if they ask for it.
Probably the best route normally as friendship seems best if just for companionship and someone to have fun with and to encourage each other to do what's best for them and most of us need to find that out for ourselves and there are experts on almost every subject too anyway and often free on the internet and then if it's worth it paid professionals.
Sorry but Linda is a flake. Clearly not a good friend. Celia is saying her thoughts because she cares and Linda doesn’t like hearing her opinion because it’s triggering. So Linda runs away, never acknowledges Celia, then does in fact use her message (yet never validated Celia’s opinion) and actually does what Celia stated in the beginning. I get it that on one hand, Celia’s behaviour may be perceived as arrogant. But imo, she just needs better friends who would value her opinion rather than flaky Linda. Too many Linda’s in the world
I'd be bothered too if someone stopped talking to me altogether, meanwhile they're copying and pasting my message when they realise they were wrong? If you aren't talking to me anymore, why are you using something I've said, word for word on a public site where I can see, unless it's some weird mind game? In addition, she was ignoring and punishing her friend by publishing the dog show thing. For what? Somebody showing some concern for her? Call it pushy or arrogant, Linda could've easily at any point said, "Hey, my decision is final and we shall no longer discuss this. I appreciate that you're concerned but don't push this any further." But no, instead shut out the friend who was kind enough to care, be completely honest and warn you. Now that's what I call pushing real friends away.
Wonderful! Advice is a gift, the receiver has the right to "not" do as we want or suggest. Like the ugly sweater they got for a birthday, they donated to charity or threw it away (or lied & said it shrank in the dryer). They don't have to wear it. Some folks don't want those gifts. They would rather be seen, heard, understood and supported. I like to be a helper too, but in my own dealings with how others force their opinions, suggestions and demands on me, making me feel hopeless and worthless and stupid ... I have come to realize that I too have put that bad behavior out into the universe and I now "try" to be more mindful (I have yet to perfect it) with others and myself. Having ASD and CPTSD (etc), I can get overzealous at first, but then calm down to be more supportive. It's very challenging, but I keep trying. Best if luck!! ☮️💟
Yeah, when you want to control over a decision or receive credit from that is not in your hands its a kind of arrogance and can be easily confused with love or uninterested and honest care but sometimes those actions are just our crave of being right about something without necessarily have interest on the subject or the afected ones just to reafirm our egos. I do feel i have a big need to be right so i can tell i still do these kind of things by mistake from time to time and all i can do is to try to detect when it's likely to happen and do right about my honest intentions and the people and things that can be afected by me.
I used to be the arrogant knowitall smarter than anyone friend, partner etc, until Life throw at me a friend just the same... What a journey and great lesson realizing what was annoying me about her was one of my most habitual behaviours... Thanks for your videos and honesty
Yikes. I started getting uncomfortable as soon as you read the part about the friend using the letter writer’s words as though she had a copyright on them. That’s a major friendship red flag for me. Well-meaning advice is still unwelcome sometimes.
Thank you for this video ♥️ I have empathy for both Cecilia and her friend Linda. I think Cecilia might have a great capacity to anticipate about certain outcomes. It is a great talent, but also kind of a curse. She might have gained this talent because of a very unpredictable and unstable parent (or care giver). And at that time this talent was very necessary for her to predict some of her parents reactions. Now it is still a great talent, but she has to learn how to use it properly and effectively. Maybe compassion is what can help in this situation. I know for myself that I have to make mistakes to know what’s right for me. When people try to warn me, it is difficult for me to listen to their advice when I am in the doubt. Sometimes you just have to experience it. It is not because I don’t trust my friend’s counsel, but because I have to understand for myself at a deeper level. Aren’t we all like this sometimes? 😊 Maybe Linda really related to the words of Cecilia, but was able to do so only after making her own experience. ❤️ just my thoughts ❤️
funny, I like Cecilia in this cause. I do appreciate friend honest, no nonsense words, rather than polite/ approved correct answer. Linda somehow, seemed to me, perhaps, a insecure person ?
I actually WANT honesty (even brutal honesty) in my friendships. I don't need people to be polite and withhold what they really think. Maybe I expect politeness and "tact" from coworkers and distant acquaintances, but not close friends.
I think few people want advice. I’ve experienced when a friend explicitly asked me for advice- they only wanted to hear it so they could reject it as rejecting my advice -instead of facing accountability of not listening to their own. To dodge this, I’d instead ask them “what would you tell me if I was in your place?” And watch them answer honestly.
Maybe not so much credit but acknowledgement that a discussion took place might be what Cecelia actually wants. But Linda did originally respond about not wanting to take the job initially for the exact reasons Cecelia told her. So the reasons Cecelia wrote were probably already in her mind. Aside from that, giving advice isn't really a good idea unless they ask and even if they do, well, it really depends on the person. But just emailing her an offering the advice, not a good idea. People don't listen to others usually and even though she knew Cecelia was right, she may have felt backed into a wall and thought "well I'll just take it til I can get something else." God knows I've been in that situation before. It is so true that no one knows what's right for another adult. Edit: Even if the friend does seem to take the advice but then goes and does the opposite, don't be offended. It's just that they changed their mind. And no one has to come back and check with you to be sure it's okay. Well, unless it's a partner situation and entails an agreement made that effects you also.
A really great book on this is The Anatomy of Peace. The biggest takeaway: instead of focusing on what’s wrong, focus on helping to make things right by seeking to support the other person. The moment we’re viewed as a roadblock we will be shut out.
True. There's a book or course on almost every topic or you tube channel or guru etc. or therapist on almost every subject or situation. From now on I might recommend one of those and say I'm not sure as I'm not sure what I'm doing right now which is often true as I've often chosen highly competitive career paths whereby I've often had to take other jobs to actually pay the bills in pursuit of or even in working some in those arenas. And especially with relationships as I've overcome mountains of childhood trauma but it's an ongoing journey and I've had various friendships and relationships but I have never found Mr. Right in life either or the love of my life so not sure if I am the person to be a go to for others in this. Decades of being alone while dating and having relationships or friendships and doing alot of work with programs, tapes, books, therapy and the like all while helping others including relatives fight cancer etc. and demanding careers or jobs etc. I might be an expert at this point in coping with stress I suppose but I find others being judgey with me sometimes when I need peace and quiet and rest at times and alone time. Sometimes those people want to rain on my parade anyway or somehow make me feel bad about my life and that I've never been super successful but have at times both personally and professionally but I have overcome tremendous obstacles too. They sometimes say insulting things out right other times just do low key digs, looks or chatter. Having been single forever, having been in sales and in acting and other work whereby criticism is par for the course and also growing up as the youngest in a hypercritical environment I really don't take these personal anymore and am not as empathic or sympathetic either as I used to be when someone is wigged out over a very seemingly minor issue or slight etc.
I can relate to Cecilia, so I absolutely agree with the point that's already been voiced here that she needs to be heard and seen. I also think that her friend Linda might be reliant or even dependent on other people and their opinions too much, I think this is her way of living. I also think Cecilia thinks logically and Linda goes with her heart. Therefore, there's this huge gap in communication between the girls. I think they're not right for each other as friends. I would say that Cecilia needs friends who are independent with a soft approach and she needs to learn to let go of other people's problems. I used to be like that, but you can't resolve one's problems without their consent. If Linda's interested in being dependent on others, so be it. The best I can suggest here for Cecilia is to turn the love she has for others onto herself and let others figure out their own way in life. All she'd need to do (to release internal pressure) would be to voice her concern and the rest is up to them. Also, with the dog show thing, I support Cecilia on this as taking someone else's effort and presenting it as your own isn't something to be proud of. So advise for Cecilia here would be to keep looking for people she connects with. Friends don't have to be for life. Some friendships are short-lived, but some are lasting. She needs to let people both in and out of her life and not hold onto them. Let them choose you too. Follow your interests, simply chat with others, be honest with them and with yourself. Real friendships take time to build - it's a natural process. It's good that Linda isn't in your life anymore, she'd be dragging you down all the time with her endless problems. Move on with ease and know that friendship is a mutual thing, not just one-sided like you've experienced before. Hope this helps 👍
Been watching your friendship vids a lot recently. I now see my friendships failed because I allowed disrespect, fawn responding until resentment pushed me into dysregulation. So grateful for your content. I find myself lately asking myself "How would Anna handle this?" It's helped a lot. Just signed up for your annual membership and looking forward to getting my life back. Thank you, Anna✨
Welcome to the membership! Sounds like you have a beautiful awareness around why your friendships may have failed in the past. That's the first step to healing and building fulfilling friendships. You're on the right path. - Ashley, Team Fairy
People like Linda are attention seekers online. They’re immature and don’t trust their own judgment, but will intentionally create an interaction, not a friendship, to have a trusting cheerleader, but they know from the beginning, they have no intention of being trustworthy and giving anything in return except their “vulnerable and “loving” nature. They’re users who seek out empathetic listeners, develop a fake bond then ghost/ignore when they get what they want and reason “ why are they getting so close? I’ve never met this person, so I don’t really owe them anything”! leaving the target with “ wth just happened”? Lesson? Vet a person out, and look for signs of low confidence, victim mentality, “nice” behavior and lack of wanting to know much about you, this tells you, you are about to be their next victim and don’t assume/perceive anyone “acting” this way really wants help. Tip? They usually NEVER ask for your opinion, so keep quiet with anyone in general if they don’t ask, just listen, and the people who do ask are genuine about wanting help and seeking answers, the others want attention, leave them alone!
Unpopular opinion, I suppose, but with the information we have been given, I am inclined to be on Cecilia's side with this one. 🤷♀️ -Linda mentions to her online friend of one year, Cecilia, that she feels pressured to take this job -Cecilia expresses her opinion (from what she knows of Linda and said job) and reasoning for why she thinks the job would not be a good fit -Linda says "you're totally right" and she doesn't want to take the job -Linda also says she feels pressure from her colleagues and everyone around her to take the job (even though she doesn't want to) While I don't necessarily have adequate information to draw certain conclusions, it sounds as though Cecilia was the only one advocating for Linda's autonomy, so I fail to see how that would be considered "pushy". What was referred to as "arrogant", I simply see as having the ability to be more objective (since Cecilia was not the one in the situation and feeling pressure from those around her). Again, I can't know certain things, but I can understand if Linda felt like she couldn't "face" Cecilia after deciding to take the job anyway and after that job didn't work out. That doesn't mean I agree with Linda's decision to simply cut off communication though.
I had the same thought while listening! Cecilia would only know the job was terrible if Linda said so. Which still speaks to some dysfunctionality if Cecilia believed she could see more clearly in the situation. Everything or most everything she knew Linda told her, because they’re only online friends and don’t have lived experience of each other. So it’s dysfunctional of Linda to blame C for just reflecting that back, maybe a little too forcefully, but also dysfunctional of C if she felt like she knew best.
Thank you so much for this sagacious and measured comment. I 100% agree. I was disappointed by the initial feedback to the letter and find your remarks -and some of the others below-much more reassuring. I think poor 'Cecilia' is completely misunderstood. Nothing she wrote gave the impression of her being pushy or arrogant. Rather she just had natural concern for her friend. Of course, some frustration would come through but based on what is written, describing her as arrogant seems very harsh to me. Inappropriate even.
This scenario spoke to my spirit, so I hope it's ok to leave a bit of a length comment. I disagree that we cannot know what is best for another person; If this were the case, parenting in essence would be a lost cause. I do agree strongly that generally (there are arguably some exceptions), we are not entitled to rob someone else of their right to choose and act on what they believe is best for them. Like Cecilia, I learned this lesson the hard way, having done something similar to a friend, realizing 15 years later that I had been arrogant/self-righteous, and ended up apologizing in attempt to restore my integrity. Also, if the "former friend" did repeat Cecilia's justifications, the former friend may have copied, so I don't think it's fair or accurate to say the "former friend" didn't. It sounds like they may have. But I wonder if what's *really* bothering Cecilia is that the former friend isn't engaging with her, and it's fine to be bothered by that. It's not fine, however, to feel like we have the right to control how others respond to our behavior (so the friend doesn't have to respond to Cecilia if she doesn't want to). I would encourage Cecilia to acknowledge the friend's right to do as she pleases, by freeing herself from what may be an unaddressed inclination to control others (the "blind spot" you're talking about). Even if it's coming from a place of "good intentions," that control as you said comes from an arrogant place which isn't so "good" and I think some specialists call this kind of controlling behavior "codependence". This was the epiphany I had that led me to heal, focus on myself and apologize to my former friend; I think I'm a better person and friend because of it.
I feel like I've been on both sides of this kind of situation so I get both parties involved. But I see a lot of assumptions and lack of communication that seems to be the issue here. First of all, we assume that Linda never responded because of the pushiness of Cecilia but the truth is - we don't know that for sure. She withdrew any contact and never communicated anything back so it's hard to tell anything for sure when we only know a little piece of the story of their online friendship. It seems like she didn't appreciate being pushed into making a different decision but she never expressed that to Cecilia so I wouldn't treat it as an obvious thing. Second of all, Cecilia also never communicated, explained or addressed anything that happened between them directly so sending out a random superficial message after a while isn't exactly communicating anything specific when it comes to her intentions or letting Linda know where she stands in their friendship. If I received a message like that after a long time of no contact, I'd actually be confused. What I'm seeing here is that both women seem to be afraid to communicate directly and express how they truly feel with each other which might be causing confusion and assumptions on both ends. My guess is that Linda's silence and then sharing Cecilia's messages publically as her own (which she said were the EXACT SAME words as she wrote) is some kind of a passive aggresive response. I also feel like Cecilia felt hurt by the sudden silent treatment but failed to communicate that to Linda in any way. I also need to say that I think I understand where Cecilia was coming from when she was trying to affect Linda's decision about taking the job. Sometimes when we're friends with someone, we actually feel their struggles, especially when they share their feelings with us. So when they are about to do something that is self-harming, we want to prevent that because it hurts us as well as we are emotionally bonded with them. And of course everyone has the right to make their own decisions but we need to realize that those decisions affect the people we are closest to. This is why I believe Cecilia felt the need to change Linda's decision, she probably invested a lot of time listening to Linda's feelings in this situation. And if it's true that she was her only friend, she might've felt a lot of pressure to support her emotionally which would've been hard if Linda decided to go against her own nature and judgment and instead go with peer pressure and outside expectations. But again, all of this is just assumtions because we really don't know the whole story.
~A lot of times when a friend will try to push me to do what they would do in a situation, it ends up helping me to clarify my own position even better~
My family has always called that sort of behavior: being a “benevolent oppressor*” 😅 (* FYI this was a few decades ago, before words like “oppression” became more common parlance related to social justice/actual oppression; so, it’s _not_ meant to minimize larger societal problems ☺️)
My BFF has a really good relationship with all three of her adult daughters . She has taught me , by example , how to have better boundaries with the people I care about .
Before we pull out our scissors and start cutting people off at random will , maybe it’s best to communicate to your friend. How we interpret their words through our filter can be completely different from what they mean. If not , set boundaries. Most friendships are salvageable with a little communication but most people can’t even do that. I see you comment section…
I think Cecilia has some sort of trauma involving not being validated in her childhood. I recognize this kind of behaviour with my mother, she always thinks she has the right to orchestra somebody else's life. And when her predicitions are coming true, she will be the first to let you know that she warned you. So you have no right to be surprised. I think these kind of people are not capabele yet of showing compassion for themselves, and thus extending that compassion to others. I'm also still learning to make my own choices, without being afraid of the judgement of others or that I will somehow make a, irreversible, wrong choice.
I’ve observed a similar interaction with an ex. Sometimes I got the sense that his value in our relationship came from feeling needed so if I wanted to do things on my own without his input, he felt he wasn’t bringing any worth to the relationship. Could this be at play for you Cecilia? Feeling like if you are not helping your friend you feel a bit lost in terms of your contribution to the friendship? I think a solid friendship is what you mentioned, which is “I support your decision either way.” That can be incredibly comforting to have in a friend. I also think it’s helpful to not ignore the obvious, so if I took a new job, having a friend say to me, “wish you the best in your new position! I’m sure you’ll do great!”
@Kristiane I can’t speak to your specific situation, but I can tell you what I tried in mine. We talked about it in couples therapy and I tried to validate him more with statements like “thanks for the suggestion”. I don’t remember what the therapist asked him to do but that one issue did get better. For example, we had a argument because I liked a TV series he thought I’d like and I told him I didn’t think I would and when I did in fact like it he got upset that I didn’t give him credit for suggesting it. However, his level of how upset he was that I didn’t come out and say, you were right I would like the show, was way out of proportion. It’s like he thought I deliberately didn’t say that because I wanted him to suffer which is not true. I just didn’t think he’d care so much about me liking a TV show. This sort of dynamic I recognize as a lot of triggering and dysregulation. It’s possible Cecilia also got dysregulated when she saw Linda’s social media post and was unable to remain level headed. I also get dysregulated and I completely understand how something minor can make me question my entire world view in an instance. So some suggestions I’d give are, know what your and his attachment styles are, and also educate yourself on codependency. (I consider a need to be needed as a codependent trait). I would never personally give someone a chance to heal their codependency while I’m in a relationship with them. What I’ve learned is it is very deep, neurologic changes. It needs brain rewiring and I think this is very hard to do while in a relationship because when it’s severe, trauma wounds are constantly being reopened and triggered. I had to learn for myself that all of my love could not heal his codependency. And in fact, his behavior got much worse.
For a while I went completely into the realm of non violent communication, never giving unsolicited advice, always being there and listening, for fear of losing friends or offending people. My worst fear is not being approved of 😝 it became exhausting and I felt like my friendships were really one sided, and I became resentful. So now l ask if they want to vent or if they want to hear my thoughts, and I always preface it with “whatever you do I will support you - it’s your decision/choice”. And/or I’ll ask what THEY think or feel about what they are doing. Open the door. A lot of times I realize I don’t even understand how they really feel about it, and when I ask them and they say “ really good” “fine” “I don’t know” “nervous” or whatever. So if I were to go ahead and give advice it might now be with a clear understanding of the true feelings of the friend. I have also started to tell my husband and friends if I want to workshop a problem I have/need help or just want to vent and need a hug. It has REALLY helped because I get what I need and they are set up for success too (especially my husband).
I feel like I was doing that kind of extension of my opinion to others often, and it's something I need to be careful not to do. I feel like it may seem like arrogance, and to some extent it is, but I see it now more as an adaptation of childhood trauma, of the need to better understand the adult world, creating conditions for them, especially my mother, and developing that condition in other relationships. It is something that is good to release, because it was a violence for a child to have to know what was not possible to know for that age, and also to have good friendship relationships now. Thank you for all the knowledge, Anna! ♥️
What helps me get through these challenges is being honest with myself how many times I was convinced something was going to turn out a certain way and ended up wrong and this could be the same. People that are over-confident about their over-helping impulses with friends is their forgetfulness over their own predictive misfires.
I can relate to the need to understand what went wrong in a relationship, and to want the other person to explain. It's a safety thing. On the one hand, I definitely believe that understanding should not be required for acceptance, and no one owes me an explanation of themselves, BUT when I don't understand someone's behaviour my survival/threat physiology is set off.
I got the impression that Linda took the job anyway to keep the support of the people who were pressuring her to take it. Then after leaving the job, explaining online her reasons for leaving for the same reason, so those same people would continue supporting her. I think there were greater dynamics and unknowns at play that went way beyond Linda's association with Cecilia. It's unfortunate for Cecilia that she didn't back off after the first round of advice giving. Then she could have stayed in the loop, and kept her online friend. I learned a long time ago that it's ok to be a sounding board, with discretion, but advice giving is fraught with pitfalls, even if requested. 😐
I was involved with a narcissist. Of course neither me nor my friend knew this. She just didn’t like him. Her behavior was so annoying it actually pushed me away. After learning about narcissists, I realized she’s a narcissist too. She wasn’t able to control me any more so she thought he was controlling me but actually I was seeing the truth about both of them. Just saying…
Definitely had that happen! Former friend didn't like my ex husband because he got in the way of her control over me, and he felt the same about her. She told everyone that I was obeying him and not standing up for myself, and when I called her on it she played victim. Better off without either one of them, but the wounds don't fully go away.
The only thing Cecilia did wrong was maintain a friendship with someone who wasn’t worthy of her love and caring. Linda lacks an identity and therefore, can’t hold up her own responsibilities to a supportive relationship. Cecilia was a true friend in her support and did not deserve what Linda did!
It seems that Cecilia has some really good traits. Sometimes people take crappy jobs even when they know the truth for lots of practical reasons, or delusions that somehow they'll manage better there. I'm glad for Cecilia that she had the self control to back off when she did. There was a comment here that reads that online relationships are not the same as real relationships. I think Cecilia was upset about being 'copyrighted' because she was no longer recognized or acknowledged. But she, (like many of us) is learning and moving on ...:)
In my friendship circle, l've made it clear that opinions are welcome. Better to have a friend tell you their perspective than a friend tell you what you want to hear. There is a healthy in listening, yet all know in the end it's my life my choice. There is comfort in hearing others perspectives, choices and boundaries. However, the best thing is when I can say to a friend... THEY told me so, and we laugh about mistakes being lessons we have to figure out for ourselves.
I recall lots of people saying to me, years ago, "I could have told you that", and I always asked them "Why the f*ck didn't you then"? So I do this - and some times I'm thanked, but usually ignored. An artist friend has "all the cards" needed to be successfull - but doesn't really do much, despite the obvious desire to have success (I'm good, but I don't care about "anything" but the money, since I've been poor all my life) . I'm a lot older, have studied these things for decades, so my advice is backed up by professionals and life experience. NOT that I don't agree with your video, but it makes me rhink of the "Never correct a fool..." look it up, peeps... Then decide, if you will listen to others and share your knowledge or not.
I hear you Anna. I see very often how idle people can be, towards someone who's just about to fly off the cliff... Even in mundane situations in which you see the mistake and stay compassionate by keeping silent; I still think that people developed an ego so huge that you just let them enjoy their own humble pie. In my case; if they can't get a grip over their self harming behaviors; I'll just move on. It's too painful to whitenes. We have to move on from suffering as a learning vehicle.
I knew I needed to watch this video today - One of my friend’s met a guy about a month ago and she’s let me know she’s not only in love, but moving across the country with him in a couple months. I can’t help but believe it’s trauma bonding because she was definitely not in the mental state for a healthy relationship. She was going through a mental breakdown just a couple months prior, which put our friendship on a break (she lashed out at me and said nasty things to me). Her mom is a homeless addict on skid row who she has not let go of, over 10 years later, even though both her brothers have cut their mom out of their life. She has been actively traumatizing herself by keeping that communication open, and I just can’t see how entering a relationship is a good idea. But beyond entering a relationship - moving that fast. They began saying “I love you” and “you’re the one” a couple weeks in. I’m a ridiculously head over heart person, and I just don’t know what to say… she just got her career off the ground here, she’s already been through so much, why risk the great disaster that could be if she moves across the country with this guy and he turns out to be terrible? Okay, now that I got that out, I’ll watch the video.. haha 🤍
friendship is hard until you find a true friend to walk along you in life… who loves you for you and vice versa… the rest are just lessons learned or repeated… or time lost… or people we don’t really connect but think we do. the moment i walked away from superficial people who were wasting my precious time… i had so much more time to do things i loved… 🎉
My friendships always end like Cecilia naturally did. Sometimes I just observer and don't give any input but I will tell when my friend is going through a difficult time.
Your letter writer sounds like my now ex best friend that I ghosted a year ago. After confronting her once, which is all she needed, about her behavior, I decided to just block her and never speak to her again when she continued . She was nasty in a very deceiving and quiet way. She wasn’t pleasant to be around and she took credit for many things in my life.
Yeah I had a friend do something similar when I injured myself. Harassed me relentlessly because they disagreed with what I was doing and said they were going to do an “I told you so” dance when they turned out to be right. Turns out I was right and they brushed it off as “they were just concerned about me”. I did advise them that I did not appreciate how their concern was demonstrated but I’m thinking I need to distance myself.
I have impulses to give unsolicited advice, or even just reactions, like Cecilia. I have damaged relationships this way. It helps me to remind myself that (a) other people are adults and have been living their own lives for a long time without me, (b) I really don't know what anyone else should do, and (c) it's a mistake to get overly involved in whether other people are making "bad" decisions. How do I know? And so what, if they do? Can I just be interested in seeing what happens, instead of trying to "come to the rescue"?
Really liked your last sentence, thank you 💖; it brings a new perspective (I really struggle with believing I know what a friend should do to live a better life and giving them unsolicited advice)
I have struggled with this - giving unsolicited advice based on my own experiences. I am now trying to catch myself when I feel the need to do this as I believe I have pushed people I care about away. Anna - you have definitely dropped some truth bombs (always in a loving way). I’ve had to take a hard look at myself and my past behaviour and there are definitely patterns that I need to break. It’s been painful realizing these about myself - but at least I know what I am dealing with and that healing is possible. Thank you for what you do.
I feel this. It’s really hard for me to see a friend going down a pattern of a bad decision and be supportive of them. Aren’t friends supposed to tell you when they don’t like a boyfriend or a situation? Or is that only when asked, and otherwise you stand back and pretend to be happy for them? I want to be honest, but that has cost me friendships, too.
I think you can tell or develop an ability to tell when people just aren’t open to your advice and it would do more harm than good to the relationship. It does hurt overall intimacy to leave some things unsaid but not all your friends have to be soul mate close.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with her speaking her mind.. I think the way her friend behaved was low key messed up if it’s intended to hurt her..
I have this had several times recently. I had Stage 3 Ovarian Cancer and my friends tried to talk me out of chemo. A few made the statement if I had cancer I wouldn't do chemo. Whatever, we have no idea what we would do until it happens to us. Btw, I got rid of one of the "pushy' friends. Arrogance is a great adjective. Thank you!
I disagree. She didn’t go against her friend’s judgment…her friend said she didn’t feel good about taking the job, but felt pressured to take it, correct? If that was the case, and maybe I misunderstood, I hope I would have a friend that would encourage me to go with my instincts.
Important subject I appreciate the letter writer's courage in asking the question and being open to answers. I feel that Anna you could have offered her more advice on how she should have handled it, why she reacted like that, rather than highlighting her behaviour as weird or off... hope you don't mind me saying. Love all the insight you give xx
Recently had a falling out with a friend who is my friend's mom - so like a 2nd mom to me. I was in a super stressful situation - in the midst of it I came down sick and was off 4 days from my job as a nanny. The mom that I work for is super covid paranoid so she didn't mind. My friend's mom gave her unsolicited opinion and shamed me for taking so many days off. I was stunned. Even more stunned by how much she pushed her point. It was apparent she wanted to be right more than anything I was going through. It's been about 6 months and I still haven't opened up her last message. Shell shocked. Several people say you're going to have to let it go but there was too much said. I don't want to lose her but I'm not going to apologize if I don't receive an apology. Very tough.
Dear „Cecilia“, If these are the true facts of the situation, then „Linda“ was not really a friend to you and you did nothing wrong! A real friend (and healthy person, or at least someone who is working through their issues) would‘ve acknowledged you having been right. I’ve been at the both ends of a similar situation and this is what a true friend does: they acknowledge the advice given to them! They are honest and say things like: „That was shitty advice!“ or „Dude, you were so right! I should‘ve listened to you“ „Linda“ sounds like she has issues she needs to work through - in any case, that is not healthy behavior on her part and you are better off without her in your life. Don‘t let this situation make you stop carrying about the right people for you; and keep warning your friends, should you see that they are headed for a disaster.
I just learned on Fri, that one lady blocked me. The reason was that I was telling her that she is underpaid for all overtime she does. So she blocked me.
It is a weird situation and somehow I am thinking that the partial fault might be with the other friend. Maybe the person knew the whole time she was taking the wrong job but felt too weak to stand up against her coworkers and just felt like she needed to take the job anyway? I think that Linda might be blaming her online friend for telling her the truth and things not working out the way she imagined. Ignoring somebody who gave you an honest opinion and did not just tell you what you wanted to hear and then and re-posting some things online is just rude and disrespectful. I think that her other friend might be actually also toxic and it is actually not a great loss to loose somebody over this situation. In my opinion there should be way more happening to just cut somebody off like this
Or Linda can just admit that she was wrong and recognize that she made a mistake 🤷🏻♀️ there’s nothing wrong with that, we all make mistakes, true strength of character comes from recognizing and admitting those things. Cecilia, you’re better off without her
I've nearly quit this habit. I have one bestie who've I've given advice to for over 20 years, and it appears she's finally "getting it" to some degree, which is encouraging. But most ppl prefer cluelessness and ignorance. Then they wonder why everything is so F-ed up. I'd tell them why but it's pointless to do so b/c they automatically reject your ideas because it wasn't their idea. Then IF they ever do put your advice to action they claim it was their idea.
I agree Anna. I wouldn't want a "friend" like this. She was more of a harsh parent. But the fact that it's easier for us to see what others should be doing than ourselves is such a codependent trait. My eyes were opened when I saw this meme: "Codependency is the agreement that I work harder on your issues than you do." Ouch and Amen! 😉
I support that telling people what they should choose... Well it usually doesnt go well. Usually when someone tells me what my best option seems to be, I reject their thinking and I make a different choice. However, can we just say it is also uncool behavior from that online friend. Ghosting someone is not good communication skills. It is unfair. While you are busy ghosting someone, you should at least not instantly repost copy-paste, what they send to you privately, while still not answering to them. It feels very much like Linda sending passive-aggressive signals to Cecilia. When you feel a real need to post on the interwebs about your very personal reasons for leaving your job, you can make the reasons "your own" and you can use your own words. Human history is full of so many words for the same thing. There is no need to copy-paste private messages, while ignoring the person who sent them. If Linda is upset then she can say that she is upset. If she does not know why or how, she can say exactly that. If she needs time for her own reasoning she can say that. If she is so helpless that she decides to ghost, that is unkind but maybe she is helpless like that. But then ghost, dont repost. If Linda is trying to tell Cecilia something, maybe she should work on using words. If she wants to cut off contact then she should a, say so and b, maybe also stop reading or using Cecilia's messages. If she wants to connect but is lost for words, then she could at least say that and not leave Cecilia hanging. But then, if you are going to try and be friends with a person who has been struggling with self love, and also with healthy boundaries and social connection, then being tempted to make certain mistakes, having to train yourself out of that, and also your being treated in weird ways instead of straight forward ways, is part of the game. Maybe Linda finds it hard to figure out, how she feels or what she truly thinks. Maybe she feels something clearly but does not know how to put it in words. This could be why she copy-pastes someone elses words, and also why she would stop communicating entirely when it becomes hard. I don't see how the only relevant factor in this situation is Cecilia's arrogance or her need to be right. I hear a story of two humans trying to figure out this game called life. Yes, it is wise to let people make their own "mistakes". They can learn, or it is their path and their fate, or you can learn that their choice wasn't actually so bad. You would not want something you told someone to do, to go bad for them. You can ask if your perspective would be welcomed, and if yes, then you can offer your perspective. It needs to be their choice, if possible. We are all human. Let us still try to connect in the most kind and beautiful ways. We do our best and we learn as we go. Probably everyone should do the Crappy Childhoof Fairy Connection Bootcamp once a year.
I feel you Cecilia. You want to help. Also you have some unmet need to be acknowledged and validated. I would try to separate wanting to help and wanting to be validated. They come from 2 different places. The validation issue can't really be met by people, only ourselves. Getting to a place where you feel worthy and don't need that from people will help your relationships. I totally get it though. Less than perfect here and I absolutely get it.
I'm can be like this sometimes, I will give unsolicited advice, not to be right, but to help someone not get hurt. I guess it's wrong. Sometimes people make poor choices (def myself included) and it's hard to watch someone make a huge mistake and not say anything. There have been times when I have made terrible decisions and wished someone warned me. I would never say "I told you so" if someone didn't want to listen and their decision went wrong but it's hard to see someone go through that pain over and over, its hard to support someone who seems to want that drama in their life. I've learned to stay out of people's lives like that but then they think I dont care anymore. I just stay to myself. I've been in therapy most of my adult life so I'm probably way off the mark here.
I feel for Cecilia that Linda directly quoted her words for a public post. It’s not about wanting credit or being right, it just seems like an extremely shady thing to do on social media. Like if someone posted your private messages. Or that feeling you get when you hear someone bring up something you only mentioned to a whole other person.
I also thought that. There is a certain etiquette on social media so I can understand why Linda's behavior made Cecilia upset. And even if Cecilia's been too pushy, that doesn't justify Linda ignoring her. Friendship works both ways.
I’d actually want a friend to tell me what they think even if I don’t ask. But obviously do not pressure me if I’m not taking the advice. I think friendship is a mix of advice and leaving things be. It’s the same when you have a child. Sometimes you have to just let the child experience and learn, rather than hold their hand all through life. So in a friendship it’s much easier. Cus you’re not their parent! You don’t have to worry about them. A simple “I think personally you can do better than that job but I truly wish you the best” would suffice
People do what they wanna do .This is something I learned very late in my life. This comes from my very very controlling parents and my mom who enjoyed manipulating me so on with her problems so on...All my life I was the one who tired to protect and love my mom . Later in ife I all the time tried to warn others when I saw they were doing something won't turn out to be good for them. Just like her many left me and stop talking with me.I did in t know why , of course.Much much later , they would tell me ohh you were right so on.. how did you know. But being right is not important .Loosing my energy , gettin guest with their insensitive behavior , lost time so on are more important.Well, thats the lesson I learned . And now I will not warn people. I will only talk if they truly ask my help.
It’s completely like this with boyfriends too. I mean even if you think 🤔 you know what is coming, you need to wait and see what unfolds for people. I remember when a friend got a dog, I thought 💭 terrible 😣 idea. It turned out this antisocial dog 🐩 was perfect 🤩 for them.
You know what? Cecilia "knew" what's best for her friend because her friend straight up SAID so before _and_ after the decision. She was pressured into it by "everyone else", cut off the side that told her to stop and didn't want to take a blow to her ego afterwards. Yes, the letter writer may have been pushy, but she stopped it at some point, yet her friend's behaviour afterwards was unnecessarily hurtful. If she was simply afraid of being judged she didn't have to use the same words and it's easy to believe she did in fact use that as her own insight, and of course it's annoying to the person who was ghosted for using that exact reasoning! The letter writer was a bit too invested and got betrayal smeared all over them. It's plain to see, for me at least.
Honestly I think your reaction to Cecillia's letter was harsh. It doesn't sound like Cecillia was harsh with her friend unless she left some stuff out. I too am perplexed how folks can be too stubborn to forgive. She tried to make amends with her friend but her friend was stubbornly unforgiving. Why?! Her friend has issues and maybe pride herself.
I'm not sure but...the uncomfortability of change, pressure for this woman to make the decision. We don't know what is in this woman's history...but if she has cptsd at ALL..she may have felt overwhelmed & pushed. We have to make our own boo boos in life & have the right to take full credit for them.
@Mary Sicola ok. Trauma made Cecilia too pushy. Trauma made Linda cut off the friendship. But they both contributed to the problem of a lost friendship.
Very interesting share! I had myself suffered, even recently from pressure from other people, it was hurting for me. I feel it very intrusive and even manipulation that someone strong believes (s)he knows better than me. Sometimes it's true on some aspects, must as you explained respect should be here, and often it's just projection, the person it pushing hard how (s)he would manage the situation (and it means what I was living was triggering for this person; while since months I'm rather working on myself on acceptance, surrendering). From my side too, I noticed that I have also tendency to tell too much sometimes, it asks awareness and asking feedback from the other one if it's ok or if the boundaries need adjustment. Several times, even if it was hard for me to witness the disaster or suffering coming, I had to stay silent, because hearing something is very different from living it as a rooted and integrated experience.
I would’ve liked to see the friend’s behavior also called out as inappropriate. It’s bad communication to just cut someone off without first giving them a chance to make it right, or communicating at least to be clear about your feelings. I mean I get both sides but there is dysfunction there.
I don’t trust people who purport to know what’s best for me…who assert that they know me better than I know myself…who discount my right to make my own choices and my own mistakes…who push and pressure me or stomp over the line into my personal spaces, choices and thoughts. As a friend, I’m a sounding board-someone who can share perspectives that might not be easily accessible to my friend-someone who can ask open ended questions to help them uncover their motives, desires, fears and hopes…for themselves. Sometimes we make a choice that appears to be “wrong” for us, because we want to find out for ourselves whether or not it actually is…and to find out the parameters of our stamina, our limits, etc…and test our beliefs and values, and what we’re made of. That’s how we learn sometimes…and how we learn to stand. I find a lot in relationships has to do with control. When we see vulnerability or uncertainty in someone we love, our inclination might be to protect them, or to take charge…but I personally find that disrespectful.
Instead of telling friends what I think they should do, I like to have them tell me what THEY plan to do. Then I'll just talk them through it, asking questions like, "What if...happens?" or, "What will you do if....?" "Oh, I see. You want to...because..." "And if..., then you'll....?" etc. You are a curious and supportive friend that is interested in knowing how they'll handle foreseeable problems. This keeps the ball in their court. They're in complete control. Sometimes they'll tell me, "You know, I never thought of that. What would you do?" If this happens, I offer advice on what I'd do in their position, but I never, EVER suggest they take it. Your advice can backfire, and then guess who they're going to blame! Of course, you can point the finger at someone and claim they made you do something, but deep down everyone knows that in reality it was still YOUR decision to take their advice. You cannot escape responsibility for your life, and this quiet truth is why it is so irritating to be told what to do. At the end of the day, you're the one that has to deal with the consequences of a decision, not the adviser. Whenever someone pressures me to do as they say because they "know better," I ask them: can I hold you accountable for this decision? No? Then back off and let me own this.
Know when you've said enough and shut up about it. I've been learning the hardway. People get in my face when I've done such things. So I just try to back away , yeah and i agree that the woman wasn't plagerizing when she said what she did about leaving the job. The "friend" should feel vindicated that she was right, but not brag about it or mention it again. A friend doesn't rub salt in the wound so to speak.
Not a real friend. Let her go. Sometimes a friend just wants to be honest, and if the friend was a real friend, she would have forgiven you. No one is perfect. The former friend was never a friend. Online friend at that.
Sometimes people are making you worse. I started working out and my friend was like "make sure to take breaks and don't do TOO much cardio!" When I was doing like 15 minutes of cardio. And then I dyed my hair and she had a back handed comment. And then she offered to make me a steering wheel cover 6 months ago, and when my co-worker made me one out of the blue my "friend" went on a whole thing about them not being safe (even though she made them to sell in the past?) So sometimes you have friends that aren't good for you and they're literally trying to make you less than.
Everyone makes mistakes, and so we are on the CZcams channel to learn about our mistakes. You may realize you made your own mistake in how you interacted with Linda and so be that good friend to yourself and encourage yourself, the same way Linda might have wanted encouragement after the job didn’t work out ❤️
Maybe Linda is an AI? We gotta stop thinking online friends are real . If you dont meet them in real life or talk on the phone for hours stop giving them your mental real estate.
The hardest and most important thing I learned in Codependents Anonymous was that it isn't appropriate to give unsolicited advice, and that we have to stay within our own boundaries and not infringe on other people with unasked-for "help."
If someone I considered my friended didn’t tell me they thought what I was doing was a bad idea, I would honestly not think they where my real friend. Then again online to me is not real life and a lot of people are hanging around others and being phony, that’s probably why people don’t seem to really be making friends anymore. Also if you can run away from someone cuz they gave you unsolicited advice and your were “friends” then you should redefine your definition of friend. Again leading me to believe online is not real life.
@@ReginaMcNeish This!!
@Regina McNeish life is so fragile and people more so. I agree and am without friends.
@@ReginaMcNeish - Regina, there is a middle road: if u see a friend doing something and u feel they might benefit from ur warming, foresight, feeling, intuitionor experience. Ask them if they are open to hear it, and if yes when and how. So then u still give THEM the choice without just withholding info.
Also have no judgment if they dont wish to hear it, or do hear it but eventually jut do their own olan without applying the advice. This way its truly onconditional and respectful.
NVC offers excellent tools for this.
I come from a family that has strong opinions on what anyone should do in life. And yes it's unabashed Arrogance. And yes it has hurt their relationships! My Mom actually stopped a waitress and told her that her glasses were the wrong shape for her face and she should do another shape she suggested! A complete stranger and that was just one of hundreds of examples! For my family, It's a neurological thing I'm certain of. I also have to catch myself as I have the same leanings! I know how much I hate it when I'm told what I have to do and and the demands when I don't follow the "right" advise. I'm used to it by now and don't let them sway me. I have to wear my own Big Girl Pants and make my own decisions that are in line with my own morals, wants, and needs. They are not me and simply can't dictate what will work for me. Lol, I want to forward this video but I'm certain it won't be well received! And of course I'll be the arrogant one leaving the proverbial book behind! Ugh. It's a family thing!
When people say “never give unsolicited advice,” it makes me wonder what their friendships are like. Sounds robotic, like everyone is on their best behavior and following a script. I want authenticity from my friends, though of course I’m free to take or reject their advice.
Of course telling someone, “Never give unsolicited advice” would be hypocrisy, unless the person had just asked you, “What’s your opinion on giving unsolicited advice?”
Agree
When ppl complain to me about a life situation or a work situation now, especially if it's a repeated complaint, I now say: "Are you just venting, or do you want advice?" and then I go from there. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I ask them "what are you going to do about it?/What do you want to do about it?"
So, some people go into a complain but don't want a solution. What's the point of bringing up if not to resolve. someone use to tell me something and get annoyed after I tried to come up with reasons and solutions. Why say things like 'I wonder why so and so did that" if they really don't care. Why say things like a question if they don't want and answer.
@@bunnyboo6295 sometimes people just want to be heard. And they might try and work it out themselves.
Yes!! Do that. I have certain friends who don't realize that I am not looking to them for solutions, I'm just talking about what's on my mind. The suggestions come but they are never appropriate for me for whichever reason. So I get frustrated explaining why all those things won't work. I probably come off sounding stubborn and self defeating. I was just venting!
@@Captain_MonsterFart Yes you likely do if you are telling me a problem of course i would assume you want a solution, then for you to continue whining without doing something about it frustrating. Be thinking why you are asking for advice if nothing I say is good enough
I'd rather a good friend tell me a painful truth than keeping me in the dark for the sake of my feelings and not for the sake of my greater good.
I think it's not only what you say, it's how you say something, too. The insisting on beeing right crossed the line. As the fairy said, it's arrogant to think that she knows best what is right for another person. And her thought to call and rub it under her friends face seemed cruel and narcissistic. No wonder she was cancelled by her friend.
You may want that once but not over and over.
There were times when I held back from advice or criticism because of the idea that I don't know better and turns out they appreciated my opinion in the end. I guess the important thing is to avoid pressure, after expressing yourself and feeling rejected...
This story is not just about a pushy friend at all. It's about someone ghosting you for being pushy on an insight you already agreed on initially to go against it for the sake of what _others_ think is better for you, then publicly expressing said "insight" after your decision didn't work out. First friend made a mistake, yet the other one did multiple things to hurt them consciously?
Yes!! Please. If I disagree with you that's fine, we can disagree but one of my good friends told me after I finally left after heartbreaking years of being married to someone I wasn't compatible with that she never really liked him for me. I was shocked she never said anything. I asked her when she thought that and it was when we were still dating. I don't have sisters, a mom a cousin I trust my friends & kind of want and need them to help see the forest when all I can see is trees. Tell someone, and also it's fine to tell someone to mind their business you weren't asking for advice but it's also ok to take advice in and decide if it's right for you without making the other person wrong. Like we're all humans just doing our best!
I feel you Cecilia.. There is a phrase like “do you want to win/be right or do you want peace?” Maybe the friend knew once she accepted or quit the job there will be an uncomfortable conversation like “I told you so, I know better” so she went no contact.
The fact Cecilia wanted so much to be credited with the dog show and the reason her friend quited, I feel like Cecilia wants to feel seen and heard, to be told “yes, you are right” wich is nothing wrong in wanting that, but if we push too much to be right and to be credited, people will run from us.
Maybe we have to work in why we need to be right, and give ourselves compassion and understanding, talk to our inner child who is asking to be seen and do it ourselves.
"Do you wanna be right, or do you wanna be happy?" That's the version I heard quite a bit from a mentor :)
-Cara@TeamFairy
I think people with cptsd see things well before others develop that awareness.
I think we also take at face value others requests for honesty and clarity, not realising that what they actually want is support and reassurance.
I have gotten into trouble with this numerous times and struggle with friendships due to my bluntness and saying it like it is.
I am not trying to be mean, I think in my mind I am trying to save them from going through the pain.
The classic fixer mentality...
It's also not your fault if someone asks for honesty and you give it! Don't ask if you don't want to know. I feel like taking people as they present is trusting them and they should be grateful for that, but people aren't honest with themselves I suppose.
I have a friend who hyper-focuses on other people's lives and I never thought much of it (I just saw it as regular gossip) until she started doing it to me. The last time it happened we had a huge falling-out because I was shocked *anyone* was observing things in my life that closely, and not everything she said was nice either. She gave me a detailed assessment of myself and the things I was doing. It doesn't matter to me whether she was wrong or right. Someone focusing on my personal life so much is almost disturbing. We are not in touch any more.
Same thing happen to me. Friends for abot 2 decades then the last 4-5 years of our friendship she started to minimazing me and my doings, life etc. And she tried gaslight me to. It was horrible but then I told her that I dont wanna to be her friend if she do not explain what's wrong. I did not get any answer and it was frosty between us for about 7 month then she called me last week. She did not care anything of me, no explain att all - only telling me diffuse words that she felt that I havet threat her bad. 🤔😒 I have lost 2 near friends (they died) - one in januari and my ex-partner last week. She did not even care ... no sorrow att all about that and not asking anything of "How are You". All was about her.
She talked about her life, other People I don't even not, the weather etc for one hour. When we hang up the phone I really get angry. If she call me anymore I'm not gonna to answer. And I do not gonna to call her again.
Same. I made a recent friend. We seemed to have a lot in common for a few months. The red flags were there but I unfortunately ignored them. There came a point when I realized this would never be a healthy friendship and ended it.
@Leigh Ann Walters ... yes my sister too, she is very controlling. Nowadays I see why she is like that, she is just as anxious as I am, it comes out in different ways ... she is not a bad person at all ... I have eventually seen my own unsolicited advice given to people less scary than my sister and still she never stops trying to instruct me, or manipulate me into doing what she thinks is right for me ..(for her, really) ... and now I understand that it's not ok to give unbidden advice, I can't tell her what to do - not that she would let me. Inside I obsess about pointing out how we were both traumatised, and all the unfair things she has done... and to stop controlling any aspect of my life. Blah blah sorry to go on... a few days ago I messaged her that i won't be in contact with her for a while. I am desperate for a break from the relentless pressure, I often don't answer the phone, all that, ... stop playing this game and have a chance to be clear about my life, my needs. Sorry to go on, it was a relief that someone has also dealt with this their whole life, specifically with a sister.
I Hope all is good with you, all the best, thank-you.
This!
@@zeenatbaer138 Did you tell her that you feel like she is trying to control you and your life? Maybe she oblivious that you feel that way, and that she is doing it. Who knows. Good luck. Family relationships are always the harder, because you would love to just break it for good, but the guilt will bother you still.
I would appreciate a friend like Cecilia. She is insightful, honest and caring. They got along just fine until Cecilia told her the truth. Cecilia was right and her friend was too insecure to admit her mistake. A friend doesn't let a friend walk into a bad deal. Maybe she went too overboard in telling her the job was wrong, but her heart was in the right place as was her mind. She would be someone I would be grateful to call a friend. Now you can all yell at me.
Sometimes it's not what is said, but how it's said and how many times it's said. Care can become control very easily. And, if the nature of the friendship has power imbalance, it can end. But who is to say time won't heal the wounds. Perhaps Linda and Cecelia will be able to find a way back to each other.
@@yuk498 True.
Yeah. I lost a friend while trying to comfort her in her breakup with a guy she later married. I made the mistake of telling her why she dodged a bullet. One conversation, man.
That's hard, but if you stayed friends, you would have her husband in your life too. You would also hear her friend continue to complain about him.
Most people are incredibly weak and selfish. You dodged a bullet onwards and upwards.
I think that's different...you were supporting her in her decision. It was her decision...any gf is going to hype up their friend in pain. This writer was trying to control the friend. You weren't❤
Maybe YOU dodged a bullet.
Maybe you’re the one who dodged the bullet 💕 like Kathy M said you would be the friend to hear her complain about the partner all the time
I call this earworming, where someone asks for input, you give them ideas, they get defensive and shut it down in some way, but then later when the threat of you is gone they turn around and adopt the idea as if it were their own. Sometimes consciously but most often I've seen it play out subconsciously. I've stopped being offended by it and recognize now it comes from a place of insecurity on their part. If I don't want an idea to get earwormed I just don't mention it, but if I think the idea needs to exist in the world no matter the circumstances of its birth, so to speak, I say it into the void, lol.
I agree that we're not here to fix people, tho. That's another lesson, still learning.
Well said, i have seen this as well, from both sides. TFS ☮️💟
Thanks for sharing
“Threat of you” is gone. That is a kernel of truth.
And then there is the “rewriting the narrative” of where they genesises the idea. They rewrite it to be the hero/right one.
It’s a flooding feeling of dismissal and even making you invisible.
Advice is a habit I’m breaking.
I agree with you 100%.
There is definitely something subconscious going on when someone (eg Linda) speaks about something but then the other (Celia) is supposed to not comment. Assuming Celia is coming from a place of compassion and caring, I don’t think you can blame someone for wanting to help. It’s human nature and we are designed to do that - to look after each other.
It was the silent treatment that was painful. She was posting information from her, but refusing to communicate. It's passive aggressive.
Absolutely correct. Cecelia was honest and direct. This other lady dissed her. She wasn’t honest and direct in return . I think Cecelia only was trying to reach out to a cowardly and underhanded person. So many ridiculous unspoken social etiquette cues.
Absolutely agree!
I once ended a friendship with someone who gave a lot of advice. I felt like they were trying to parent me. Meanwhile, they didn’t really have their own life together. I distanced from the friendship because I began to associate stress with them rather than a good time.
Harsh! It doesn't sound from the letter like the letter-writer "pushed" her at all! The friend initially agreed with the writer! I think the writer showed a lot of self-restraint. Here's my unsolicited advice: "Cecelia" is better off without "Linda".
Thank you!
I struggle with this so much. Not to get too pushy or over explanatory about what I think my friends should do. I'm actively forcing myself to back off. It hurts, but I've realized being too much hurts more.
That must be difficult. But the fairy team is sending you encouragement
I also struggle with this. Having CPTSD makes you fearful for yourself and your friends and loved ones. You can see the train wreck coming from a mile away. You want to scream, but instead you smile and try to support them through the crisis. I’m getting better at helping others by talking about my own journey and not giving direct advice unless it’s asked for.
Get engaged in ur own life. So much that u dont have time to bother about others. Stay in ur own lane. Tell ur friends that if they need help or advice they can call u. If they dont ask just listen (use NVC empathic listening steps). If u have thoughts u van offer: do wish to hear my thoughts or opinion/feeling/experience with this ? If they say no, leave it. If they day yes discuss when and how the message would be bet delivered
PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THEIR OWN MISTAKES, LEARN THEIR OWN LESSONS AND HAVE THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES. We are not God deciding for them. This s a world of free will & trial and error
Channeling Jesus & Ananda by TLS has excellent videos about this subject as well. Bery practical and insightful just as this channel (CCF).
I agree with Anna. Also I learned to be careful with online friends. They are often just limerence objects, I don't really know them, I just add imagined qualities. And try to help imaginary person thinking that I know what the problem is.
Friends normally say they wish you had given advice after the fact, but never BEFORE the fact. I usually tell friends I won’t give advice even if they ask for it.
Probably the best route normally as friendship seems best if just for companionship and someone to have fun with and to encourage each other to do what's best for them and most of us need to find that out for ourselves and there are experts on almost every subject too anyway and often free on the internet and then if it's worth it paid professionals.
Open rebuke is better Than love carefully concealed. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
Proverbs 27:5-6
My family has done this to me all my life. By now I don't tell them anything about my plans anymore. No matter if they are professional or private.
Sorry but Linda is a flake. Clearly not a good friend. Celia is saying her thoughts because she cares and Linda doesn’t like hearing her opinion because it’s triggering. So Linda runs away, never acknowledges Celia, then does in fact use her message (yet never validated Celia’s opinion) and actually does what Celia stated in the beginning.
I get it that on one hand, Celia’s behaviour may be perceived as arrogant. But imo, she just needs better friends who would value her opinion rather than flaky Linda.
Too many Linda’s in the world
I'd be bothered too if someone stopped talking to me altogether, meanwhile they're copying and pasting my message when they realise they were wrong? If you aren't talking to me anymore, why are you using something I've said, word for word on a public site where I can see, unless it's some weird mind game? In addition, she was ignoring and punishing her friend by publishing the dog show thing. For what? Somebody showing some concern for her?
Call it pushy or arrogant, Linda could've easily at any point said, "Hey, my decision is final and we shall no longer discuss this. I appreciate that you're concerned but don't push this any further." But no, instead shut out the friend who was kind enough to care, be completely honest and warn you. Now that's what I call pushing real friends away.
Exactly. She ghosted her and was passive aggressive.
Social media can be very triggering for a lot of people. It's not the same as an in person relationship & may not be valued the same way either.
Wonderful!
Advice is a gift, the receiver has the right to "not" do as we want or suggest. Like the ugly sweater they got for a birthday, they donated to charity or threw it away (or lied & said it shrank in the dryer). They don't have to wear it.
Some folks don't want those gifts. They would rather be seen, heard, understood and supported.
I like to be a helper too, but in my own dealings with how others force their opinions, suggestions and demands on me, making me feel hopeless and worthless and stupid ... I have come to realize that I too have put that bad behavior out into the universe and I now "try" to be more mindful (I have yet to perfect it) with others and myself. Having ASD and CPTSD (etc), I can get overzealous at first, but then calm down to be more supportive. It's very challenging, but I keep trying.
Best if luck!!
☮️💟
Yeah, when you want to control over a decision or receive credit from that is not in your hands its a kind of arrogance and can be easily confused with love or uninterested and honest care but sometimes those actions are just our crave of being right about something without necessarily have interest on the subject or the afected ones just to reafirm our egos. I do feel i have a big need to be right so i can tell i still do these kind of things by mistake from time to time and all i can do is to try to detect when it's likely to happen and do right about my honest intentions and the people and things that can be afected by me.
I can relate. Thanks for sharing.
@@joanae8189 Same. I can relate too. Although it hurts to admit.
I used to be the arrogant knowitall smarter than anyone friend, partner etc, until Life throw at me a friend just the same... What a journey and great lesson realizing what was annoying me about her was one of my most habitual behaviours... Thanks for your videos and honesty
Yikes. I started getting uncomfortable as soon as you read the part about the friend using the letter writer’s words as though she had a copyright on them. That’s a major friendship red flag for me. Well-meaning advice is still unwelcome sometimes.
Thank you for this video ♥️ I have empathy for both Cecilia and her friend Linda.
I think Cecilia might have a great capacity to anticipate about certain outcomes. It is a great talent, but also kind of a curse. She might have gained this talent because of a very unpredictable and unstable parent (or care giver). And at that time this talent was very necessary for her to predict some of her parents reactions. Now it is still a great talent, but she has to learn how to use it properly and effectively.
Maybe compassion is what can help in this situation. I know for myself that I have to make mistakes to know what’s right for me. When people try to warn me, it is difficult for me to listen to their advice when I am in the doubt. Sometimes you just have to experience it. It is not because I don’t trust my friend’s counsel, but because I have to understand for myself at a deeper level.
Aren’t we all like this sometimes? 😊
Maybe Linda really related to the words of Cecilia, but was able to do so only after making her own experience.
❤️ just my thoughts ❤️
And good thoughts they ARE!!
@@sunnyadams5842 thank you 💕
funny, I like Cecilia in this cause. I do appreciate friend honest, no nonsense words, rather than polite/ approved correct answer. Linda somehow, seemed to me, perhaps, a insecure person ?
Only state your opinion when asked and only once state it. Let it go and sit back and watch. That's all you can do with people.
Wise words.
I actually WANT honesty (even brutal honesty) in my friendships. I don't need people to be polite and withhold what they really think. Maybe I expect politeness and "tact" from coworkers and distant acquaintances, but not close friends.
~Me, too!~I need to trust friends to be honest, otherwise theres almost no point in even talking to them~
That friendship in the letter was just an online one though.
Same. Sometimes wee need our close friends and relatives save us from ourselves. But everyone also needs to learn when to back off, too.
I think few people want advice.
I’ve experienced when a friend explicitly asked me for advice- they only wanted to hear it so they could reject it as rejecting my advice -instead of facing accountability of not listening to their own. To dodge this, I’d instead ask them “what would you tell me if I was in your place?” And watch them answer honestly.
U are BRILLIANT!!! I am going to use this!!
Maybe not so much credit but acknowledgement that a discussion took place might be what Cecelia actually wants. But Linda did originally respond about not wanting to take the job initially for the exact reasons Cecelia told her. So the reasons Cecelia wrote were probably already in her mind.
Aside from that, giving advice isn't really a good idea unless they ask and even if they do, well, it really depends on the person. But just emailing her an offering the advice, not a good idea. People don't listen to others usually and even though she knew Cecelia was right, she may have felt backed into a wall and thought "well I'll just take it til I can get something else." God knows I've been in that situation before.
It is so true that no one knows what's right for another adult.
Edit: Even if the friend does seem to take the advice but then goes and does the opposite, don't be offended. It's just that they changed their mind. And no one has to come back and check with you to be sure it's okay. Well, unless it's a partner situation and entails an agreement made that effects you also.
A really great book on this is The Anatomy of Peace. The biggest takeaway: instead of focusing on what’s wrong, focus on helping to make things right by seeking to support the other person. The moment we’re viewed as a roadblock we will be shut out.
Thanks for sharing! -Calista@TeamFairy
True. There's a book or course on almost every topic or you tube channel or guru etc. or therapist on almost every subject or situation. From now on I might recommend one of those and say I'm not sure as I'm not sure what I'm doing right now which is often true as I've often chosen highly competitive career paths whereby I've often had to take other jobs to actually pay the bills in pursuit of or even in working some in those arenas. And especially with relationships as I've overcome mountains of childhood trauma but it's an ongoing journey and I've had various friendships and relationships but I have never found Mr. Right in life either or the love of my life so not sure if I am the person to be a go to for others in this. Decades of being alone while dating and having relationships or friendships and doing alot of work with programs, tapes, books, therapy and the like all while helping others including relatives fight cancer etc. and demanding careers or jobs etc. I might be an expert at this point in coping with stress I suppose but I find others being judgey with me sometimes when I need peace and quiet and rest at times and alone time. Sometimes those people want to rain on my parade anyway or somehow make me feel bad about my life and that I've never been super successful but have at times both personally and professionally but I have overcome tremendous obstacles too. They sometimes say insulting things out right other times just do low key digs, looks or chatter. Having been single forever, having been in sales and in acting and other work whereby criticism is par for the course and also growing up as the youngest in a hypercritical environment I really don't take these personal anymore and am not as empathic or sympathetic either as I used to be when someone is wigged out over a very seemingly minor issue or slight etc.
I can relate to Cecilia, so I absolutely agree with the point that's already been voiced here that she needs to be heard and seen. I also think that her friend Linda might be reliant or even dependent on other people and their opinions too much, I think this is her way of living. I also think Cecilia thinks logically and Linda goes with her heart. Therefore, there's this huge gap in communication between the girls. I think they're not right for each other as friends. I would say that Cecilia needs friends who are independent with a soft approach and she needs to learn to let go of other people's problems. I used to be like that, but you can't resolve one's problems without their consent. If Linda's interested in being dependent on others, so be it. The best I can suggest here for Cecilia is to turn the love she has for others onto herself and let others figure out their own way in life. All she'd need to do (to release internal pressure) would be to voice her concern and the rest is up to them. Also, with the dog show thing, I support Cecilia on this as taking someone else's effort and presenting it as your own isn't something to be proud of. So advise for Cecilia here would be to keep looking for people she connects with. Friends don't have to be for life. Some friendships are short-lived, but some are lasting. She needs to let people both in and out of her life and not hold onto them. Let them choose you too. Follow your interests, simply chat with others, be honest with them and with yourself. Real friendships take time to build - it's a natural process. It's good that Linda isn't in your life anymore, she'd be dragging you down all the time with her endless problems. Move on with ease and know that friendship is a mutual thing, not just one-sided like you've experienced before. Hope this helps 👍
Appreciate you sending encouragement and support to Cecilia :)
-Cara@TeamFairy
Been watching your friendship vids a lot recently. I now see my friendships failed because I allowed disrespect, fawn responding until resentment pushed me into dysregulation. So grateful for your content. I find myself lately asking myself "How would Anna handle this?" It's helped a lot. Just signed up for your annual membership and looking forward to getting my life back. Thank you, Anna✨
Welcome to the membership! Sounds like you have a beautiful awareness around why your friendships may have failed in the past. That's the first step to healing and building fulfilling friendships. You're on the right path. - Ashley, Team Fairy
@@CrappyChildhoodFairy thanks, Ashley! Greatly appreciate you all🙌
People like Linda are attention seekers online. They’re immature and don’t trust their own judgment, but will intentionally create an interaction, not a friendship, to have a trusting cheerleader, but they know from the beginning, they have no intention of being trustworthy and giving anything in return except their “vulnerable and “loving” nature.
They’re users who seek out empathetic listeners, develop a fake bond then ghost/ignore when they get what they want and reason “ why are they getting so close? I’ve never met this person, so I don’t really owe them anything”! leaving the target with “ wth just happened”?
Lesson? Vet a person out, and look for signs of low confidence, victim mentality, “nice” behavior and lack of wanting to know much about you, this tells you, you are about to be their next victim and don’t assume/perceive anyone “acting” this way really wants help.
Tip? They usually NEVER ask for your opinion, so keep quiet with anyone in general if they don’t ask, just listen, and the people who do ask are genuine about wanting help and seeking answers, the others want attention, leave them alone!
you are describing a covert narcissist
I heard in a 12 step programme that warning is controlling
Oh that's so interesting, I will remember this for sure.
it is!! Thank you!! It really is!!
Unpopular opinion, I suppose, but with the information we have been given, I am inclined to be on Cecilia's side with this one. 🤷♀️
-Linda mentions to her online friend of one year, Cecilia, that she feels pressured to take this job
-Cecilia expresses her opinion (from what she knows of Linda and said job) and reasoning for why she thinks the job would not be a good fit
-Linda says "you're totally right" and she doesn't want to take the job
-Linda also says she feels pressure from her colleagues and everyone around her to take the job (even though she doesn't want to)
While I don't necessarily have adequate information to draw certain conclusions, it sounds as though Cecilia was the only one advocating for Linda's autonomy, so I fail to see how that would be considered "pushy". What was referred to as "arrogant", I simply see as having the ability to be more objective (since Cecilia was not the one in the situation and feeling pressure from those around her).
Again, I can't know certain things, but I can understand if Linda felt like she couldn't "face" Cecilia after deciding to take the job anyway and after that job didn't work out. That doesn't mean I agree with Linda's decision to simply cut off communication though.
I had the same thought while listening! Cecilia would only know the job was terrible if Linda said so. Which still speaks to some dysfunctionality if Cecilia believed she could see more clearly in the situation. Everything or most everything she knew Linda told her, because they’re only online friends and don’t have lived experience of each other. So it’s dysfunctional of Linda to blame C for just reflecting that back, maybe a little too forcefully, but also dysfunctional of C if she felt like she knew best.
Thank you so much for this sagacious and measured comment. I 100% agree. I was disappointed by the initial feedback to the letter and find your remarks -and some of the others below-much more reassuring. I think poor 'Cecilia' is completely misunderstood. Nothing she wrote gave the impression of her being pushy or arrogant. Rather she just had natural concern for her friend. Of course, some frustration would come through but based on what is written, describing her as arrogant seems very harsh to me. Inappropriate even.
This scenario spoke to my spirit, so I hope it's ok to leave a bit of a length comment. I disagree that we cannot know what is best for another person; If this were the case, parenting in essence would be a lost cause. I do agree strongly that generally (there are arguably some exceptions), we are not entitled to rob someone else of their right to choose and act on what they believe is best for them. Like Cecilia, I learned this lesson the hard way, having done something similar to a friend, realizing 15 years later that I had been arrogant/self-righteous, and ended up apologizing in attempt to restore my integrity. Also, if the "former friend" did repeat Cecilia's justifications, the former friend may have copied, so I don't think it's fair or accurate to say the "former friend" didn't. It sounds like they may have. But I wonder if what's *really* bothering Cecilia is that the former friend isn't engaging with her, and it's fine to be bothered by that. It's not fine, however, to feel like we have the right to control how others respond to our behavior (so the friend doesn't have to respond to Cecilia if she doesn't want to). I would encourage Cecilia to acknowledge the friend's right to do as she pleases, by freeing herself from what may be an unaddressed inclination to control others (the "blind spot" you're talking about). Even if it's coming from a place of "good intentions," that control as you said comes from an arrogant place which isn't so "good" and I think some specialists call this kind of controlling behavior "codependence". This was the epiphany I had that led me to heal, focus on myself and apologize to my former friend; I think I'm a better person and friend because of it.
It’s so hard to realize that sometimes it IS you. 🤕 it’s so hard to NOT just run on automatic but to rather stop & be careful.
I feel like I've been on both sides of this kind of situation so I get both parties involved. But I see a lot of assumptions and lack of communication that seems to be the issue here.
First of all, we assume that Linda never responded because of the pushiness of Cecilia but the truth is - we don't know that for sure. She withdrew any contact and never communicated anything back so it's hard to tell anything for sure when we only know a little piece of the story of their online friendship. It seems like she didn't appreciate being pushed into making a different decision but she never expressed that to Cecilia so I wouldn't treat it as an obvious thing.
Second of all, Cecilia also never communicated, explained or addressed anything that happened between them directly so sending out a random superficial message after a while isn't exactly communicating anything specific when it comes to her intentions or letting Linda know where she stands in their friendship. If I received a message like that after a long time of no contact, I'd actually be confused.
What I'm seeing here is that both women seem to be afraid to communicate directly and express how they truly feel with each other which might be causing confusion and assumptions on both ends.
My guess is that Linda's silence and then sharing Cecilia's messages publically as her own (which she said were the EXACT SAME words as she wrote) is some kind of a passive aggresive response. I also feel like Cecilia felt hurt by the sudden silent treatment but failed to communicate that to Linda in any way.
I also need to say that I think I understand where Cecilia was coming from when she was trying to affect Linda's decision about taking the job. Sometimes when we're friends with someone, we actually feel their struggles, especially when they share their feelings with us. So when they are about to do something that is self-harming, we want to prevent that because it hurts us as well as we are emotionally bonded with them. And of course everyone has the right to make their own decisions but we need to realize that those decisions affect the people we are closest to. This is why I believe Cecilia felt the need to change Linda's decision, she probably invested a lot of time listening to Linda's feelings in this situation. And if it's true that she was her only friend, she might've felt a lot of pressure to support her emotionally which would've been hard if Linda decided to go against her own nature and judgment and instead go with peer pressure and outside expectations.
But again, all of this is just assumtions because we really don't know the whole story.
~A lot of times when a friend will try to push me to do what they would do in a situation, it ends up helping me to clarify my own position even better~
It sounds to me like Linda was taking back her power to make choices for herself, and also to claim the wisdom that her own choices gave her.
Exactly, l don’t need another parent.
My family has always called that sort of behavior: being a “benevolent oppressor*” 😅
(* FYI this was a few decades ago, before words like “oppression” became more common parlance related to social justice/actual oppression; so, it’s _not_ meant to minimize larger societal problems ☺️)
Actually "benevolent oppressor" is even funnier or more ironic now. No apology needed.
"Benevolent dictator" is an alternate
My BFF has a really good relationship with all three of her adult daughters . She has taught me , by example , how to have better boundaries with the people I care about .
That's beautiful that you have that example to learn from. - Ashley, Team Fairy
Before we pull out our scissors and start cutting people off at random will , maybe it’s best to communicate to your friend. How we interpret their words through our filter can be completely different from what they mean.
If not , set boundaries. Most friendships are salvageable with a little communication but most people can’t even do that. I see you comment section…
Sounds to me like Cecilia is being a bit controlling even though she means well.
I think Cecilia has some sort of trauma involving not being validated in her childhood. I recognize this kind of behaviour with my mother, she always thinks she has the right to orchestra somebody else's life. And when her predicitions are coming true, she will be the first to let you know that she warned you. So you have no right to be surprised. I think these kind of people are not capabele yet of showing compassion for themselves, and thus extending that compassion to others.
I'm also still learning to make my own choices, without being afraid of the judgement of others or that I will somehow make a, irreversible, wrong choice.
The two of them were contributing to the dynamic. It wasn't just the letter writer.
I’ve observed a similar interaction with an ex. Sometimes I got the sense that his value in our relationship came from feeling needed so if I wanted to do things on my own without his input, he felt he wasn’t bringing any worth to the relationship.
Could this be at play for you Cecilia? Feeling like if you are not helping your friend you feel a bit lost in terms of your contribution to the friendship?
I think a solid friendship is what you mentioned, which is “I support your decision either way.” That can be incredibly comforting to have in a friend.
I also think it’s helpful to not ignore the obvious, so if I took a new job, having a friend say to me, “wish you the best in your new position! I’m sure you’ll do great!”
From my similar personal experience, I pretty much suspect the same. In my case, the person seems like she wants to be useful and valued.
@@rachelf-2423 I am in such a relationship right now, he wants to feel useful, he wants to help and feel needed. What can I say to him?
@Kristiane I can’t speak to your specific situation, but I can tell you what I tried in mine.
We talked about it in couples therapy and I tried to validate him more with statements like “thanks for the suggestion”. I don’t remember what the therapist asked him to do but that one issue did get better. For example, we had a argument because I liked a TV series he thought I’d like and I told him I didn’t think I would and when I did in fact like it he got upset that I didn’t give him credit for suggesting it. However, his level of how upset he was that I didn’t come out and say, you were right I would like the show, was way out of proportion. It’s like he thought I deliberately didn’t say that because I wanted him to suffer which is not true. I just didn’t think he’d care so much about me liking a TV show.
This sort of dynamic I recognize as a lot of triggering and dysregulation. It’s possible Cecilia also got dysregulated when she saw Linda’s social media post and was unable to remain level headed. I also get dysregulated and I completely understand how something minor can make me question my entire world view in an instance.
So some suggestions I’d give are, know what your and his attachment styles are, and also educate yourself on codependency. (I consider a need to be needed as a codependent trait). I would never personally give someone a chance to heal their codependency while I’m in a relationship with them. What I’ve learned is it is very deep, neurologic changes. It needs brain rewiring and I think this is very hard to do while in a relationship because when it’s severe, trauma wounds are constantly being reopened and triggered. I had to learn for myself that all of my love could not heal his codependency. And in fact, his behavior got much worse.
For a while I went completely into the realm of non violent communication, never giving unsolicited advice, always being there and listening, for fear of losing friends or offending people. My worst fear is not being approved of 😝 it became exhausting and I felt like my friendships were really one sided, and I became resentful. So now l ask if they want to vent or if they want to hear my thoughts, and I always preface it with “whatever you do I will support you - it’s your decision/choice”. And/or I’ll ask what THEY think or feel about what they are doing. Open the door. A lot of times I realize I don’t even understand how they really feel about it, and when I ask them and they say “ really good” “fine” “I don’t know” “nervous” or whatever. So if I were to go ahead and give advice it might now be with a clear understanding of the true feelings of the friend.
I have also started to tell my husband and friends if I want to workshop a problem I have/need help or just want to vent and need a hug. It has REALLY helped because I get what I need and they are set up for success too (especially my husband).
I feel like I was doing that kind of extension of my opinion to others often, and it's something I need to be careful not to do. I feel like it may seem like arrogance, and to some extent it is, but I see it now more as an adaptation of childhood trauma, of the need to better understand the adult world, creating conditions for them, especially my mother, and developing that condition in other relationships. It is something that is good to release, because it was a violence for a child to have to know what was not possible to know for that age, and also to have good friendship relationships now. Thank you for all the knowledge, Anna! ♥️
What helps me get through these challenges is being honest with myself how many times I was convinced something was going to turn out a certain way and ended up wrong and this could be the same. People that are over-confident about their over-helping impulses with friends is their forgetfulness over their own predictive misfires.
I can relate to the need to understand what went wrong in a relationship, and to want the other person to explain. It's a safety thing.
On the one hand, I definitely believe that understanding should not be required for acceptance, and no one owes me an explanation of themselves, BUT when I don't understand someone's behaviour my survival/threat physiology is set off.
I got the impression that Linda took the job anyway to keep the support of the people who were pressuring her to take it. Then after leaving the job, explaining online her reasons for leaving for the same reason, so those same people would continue supporting her. I think there were greater dynamics and unknowns at play that went way beyond Linda's association with Cecilia. It's unfortunate for Cecilia that she didn't back off after the first round of advice giving. Then she could have stayed in the loop, and kept her online friend.
I learned a long time ago that it's ok to be a sounding board, with discretion, but advice giving is fraught with pitfalls, even if requested. 😐
I was involved with a narcissist. Of course neither me nor my friend knew this. She just didn’t like him. Her behavior was so annoying it actually pushed me away. After learning about narcissists, I realized she’s a narcissist too. She wasn’t able to control me any more so she thought he was controlling me but actually I was seeing the truth about both of them. Just saying…
Definitely had that happen! Former friend didn't like my ex husband because he got in the way of her control over me, and he felt the same about her. She told everyone that I was obeying him and not standing up for myself, and when I called her on it she played victim. Better off without either one of them, but the wounds don't fully go away.
@@lc5666~ Hallo, yes they do eventually go away and become as refined gold, wisdom within us.
The only thing Cecilia did wrong was maintain a friendship with someone who wasn’t worthy of her love and caring. Linda lacks an identity and therefore, can’t hold up her own responsibilities to a supportive relationship. Cecilia was a true friend in her support and did not deserve what Linda did!
It seems that Cecilia has some really good traits. Sometimes people take crappy jobs even when they know the truth for lots of practical reasons, or delusions that somehow they'll manage better there. I'm glad for Cecilia that she had the self control to back off when she did. There was a comment here that reads that online relationships are not the same as real relationships. I think Cecilia was upset about being 'copyrighted' because she was no longer recognized or acknowledged. But she, (like many of us) is learning and moving on ...:)
In my friendship circle, l've made it clear that opinions are welcome. Better to have a friend tell you their perspective than a friend tell you what you want to hear. There is a healthy in listening, yet all know in the end it's my life my choice.
There is comfort in hearing others perspectives, choices and boundaries. However, the best thing is when I can say to a friend... THEY told me so, and we laugh about mistakes being lessons we have to figure out for ourselves.
I recall lots of people saying to me, years ago, "I could have told you that", and I always asked them "Why the f*ck didn't you then"? So I do this - and some times I'm thanked, but usually ignored. An artist friend has "all the cards" needed to be successfull - but doesn't really do much, despite the obvious desire to have success (I'm good, but I don't care about "anything" but the money, since I've been poor all my life) . I'm a lot older, have studied these things for decades, so my advice is backed up by professionals and life experience. NOT that I don't agree with your video, but it makes me rhink of the "Never correct a fool..." look it up, peeps... Then decide, if you will listen to others and share your knowledge or not.
I hear you Anna. I see very often how idle people can be, towards someone who's just about to fly off the cliff...
Even in mundane situations in which you see the mistake and stay compassionate by keeping silent; I still think that people developed an ego so huge that you just let them enjoy their own humble pie.
In my case; if they can't get a grip over their self harming behaviors; I'll just move on. It's too painful to whitenes.
We have to move on from suffering as a learning vehicle.
I knew I needed to watch this video today -
One of my friend’s met a guy about a month ago and she’s let me know she’s not only in love, but moving across the country with him in a couple months. I can’t help but believe it’s trauma bonding because she was definitely not in the mental state for a healthy relationship. She was going through a mental breakdown just a couple months prior, which put our friendship on a break (she lashed out at me and said nasty things to me). Her mom is a homeless addict on skid row who she has not let go of, over 10 years later, even though both her brothers have cut their mom out of their life. She has been actively traumatizing herself by keeping that communication open, and I just can’t see how entering a relationship is a good idea. But beyond entering a relationship - moving that fast. They began saying “I love you” and “you’re the one” a couple weeks in.
I’m a ridiculously head over heart person, and I just don’t know what to say… she just got her career off the ground here, she’s already been through so much, why risk the great disaster that could be if she moves across the country with this guy and he turns out to be terrible?
Okay, now that I got that out, I’ll watch the video.. haha 🤍
I hope you enjoyed the video!
-Cara@TeamFairy
I did, and it reminded me to let go and let people make their own choices and potential mistakes.. 💖
friendship is hard until you find a true friend to walk along you in life… who loves you for you and vice versa… the rest are just lessons learned or repeated… or time lost… or people we don’t really connect but think we do. the moment i walked away from superficial people who were wasting my precious time… i had so much more time to do things i loved… 🎉
My friendships always end like Cecilia naturally did. Sometimes I just observer and don't give any input but I will tell when my friend is going through a difficult time.
Your letter writer sounds like my now ex best friend that I ghosted a year ago. After confronting her once, which is all she needed, about her behavior, I decided to just block her and never speak to her again when she continued . She was nasty in a very deceiving and quiet way. She wasn’t pleasant to be around and she took credit for many things in my life.
Yeah I had a friend do something similar when I injured myself. Harassed me relentlessly because they disagreed with what I was doing and said they were going to do an “I told you so” dance when they turned out to be right. Turns out I was right and they brushed it off as “they were just concerned about me”. I did advise them that I did not appreciate how their concern was demonstrated but I’m thinking I need to distance myself.
I have impulses to give unsolicited advice, or even just reactions, like Cecilia. I have damaged relationships this way. It helps me to remind myself that (a) other people are adults and have been living their own lives for a long time without me, (b) I really don't know what anyone else should do, and (c) it's a mistake to get overly involved in whether other people are making "bad" decisions. How do I know? And so what, if they do? Can I just be interested in seeing what happens, instead of trying to "come to the rescue"?
Really liked your last sentence, thank you 💖; it brings a new perspective (I really struggle with believing I know what a friend should do to live a better life and giving them unsolicited advice)
I have struggled with this - giving unsolicited advice based on my own experiences. I am now trying to catch myself when I feel the need to do this as I believe I have pushed people I care about away. Anna - you have definitely dropped some truth bombs (always in a loving way). I’ve had to take a hard look at myself and my past behaviour and there are definitely patterns that I need to break. It’s been painful realizing these about myself - but at least I know what I am dealing with and that healing is possible. Thank you for what you do.
I feel this. It’s really hard for me to see a friend going down a pattern of a bad decision and be supportive of them. Aren’t friends supposed to tell you when they don’t like a boyfriend or a situation? Or is that only when asked, and otherwise you stand back and pretend to be happy for them? I want to be honest, but that has cost me friendships, too.
I think you can tell or develop an ability to tell when people just aren’t open to your advice and it would do more harm than good to the relationship. It does hurt overall intimacy to leave some things unsaid but not all your friends have to be soul mate close.
@@NatalieZii Yeah. I hear you. The trouble is that it's my best friend. What do you do in that situation?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with her speaking her mind.. I think the way her friend behaved was low key messed up if it’s intended to hurt her..
I have this had several times recently. I had Stage 3 Ovarian Cancer and my friends tried to talk me out of chemo. A few made the statement if I had cancer I wouldn't do chemo. Whatever, we have no idea what we would do until it happens to us. Btw, I got rid of one of the "pushy' friends. Arrogance is a great adjective. Thank you!
I disagree. She didn’t go against her friend’s judgment…her friend said she didn’t feel good about taking the job, but felt pressured to take it, correct?
If that was the case, and maybe I misunderstood, I hope I would have a friend that would encourage me to go with my instincts.
Important subject I appreciate the letter writer's courage in asking the question and being open to answers. I feel that Anna you could have offered her more advice on how she should have handled it, why she reacted like that, rather than highlighting her behaviour as weird or off... hope you don't mind me saying. Love all the insight you give xx
Recently had a falling out with a friend who is my friend's mom - so like a 2nd mom to me. I was in a super stressful situation - in the midst of it I came down sick and was off 4 days from my job as a nanny. The mom that I work for is super covid paranoid so she didn't mind. My friend's mom gave her unsolicited opinion and shamed me for taking so many days off. I was stunned. Even more stunned by how much she pushed her point. It was apparent she wanted to be right more than anything I was going through. It's been about 6 months and I still haven't opened up her last message. Shell shocked. Several people say you're going to have to let it go but there was too much said. I don't want to lose her but I'm not going to apologize if I don't receive an apology. Very tough.
Dear „Cecilia“,
If these are the true facts of the situation, then „Linda“ was not really a friend to you and you did nothing wrong!
A real friend (and healthy person, or at least someone who is working through their issues) would‘ve acknowledged you having been right. I’ve been at the both ends of a similar situation and this is what a true friend does: they acknowledge the advice given to them! They are honest and say things like: „That was shitty advice!“ or „Dude, you were so right! I should‘ve listened to you“
„Linda“ sounds like she has issues she needs to work through - in any case, that is not healthy behavior on her part and you are better off without her in your life.
Don‘t let this situation make you stop carrying about the right people for you; and keep warning your friends, should you see that they are headed for a disaster.
I just learned on Fri, that one lady blocked me. The reason was that I was telling her that she is underpaid for all overtime she does. So she blocked me.
It is a weird situation and somehow I am thinking that the partial fault might be with the other friend. Maybe the person knew the whole time she was taking the wrong job but felt too weak to stand up against her coworkers and just felt like she needed to take the job anyway? I think that Linda might be blaming her online friend for telling her the truth and things not working out the way she imagined. Ignoring somebody who gave you an honest opinion and did not just tell you what you wanted to hear and then and re-posting some things online is just rude and disrespectful. I think that her other friend might be actually also toxic and it is actually not a great loss to loose somebody over this situation. In my opinion there should be way more happening to just cut somebody off like this
Or Linda can just admit that she was wrong and recognize that she made a mistake 🤷🏻♀️ there’s nothing wrong with that, we all make mistakes, true strength of character comes from recognizing and admitting those things. Cecilia, you’re better off without her
Linda could have but she’s and Cecilia are not real friends.
@@ReginaMcNeish How do you define "real friends"?
Agree
I've nearly quit this habit. I have one bestie who've I've given advice to for over 20 years, and it appears she's finally "getting it" to some degree, which is encouraging. But most ppl prefer cluelessness and ignorance. Then they wonder why everything is so F-ed up. I'd tell them why but it's pointless to do so b/c they automatically reject your ideas because it wasn't their idea. Then IF they ever do put your advice to action they claim it was their idea.
TRUTH
I agree Anna. I wouldn't want a "friend" like this. She was more of a harsh parent. But the fact that it's easier for us to see what others should be doing than ourselves is such a codependent trait. My eyes were opened when I saw this meme: "Codependency is the agreement that I work harder on your issues than you do." Ouch and Amen! 😉
I support that telling people what they should choose... Well it usually doesnt go well. Usually when someone tells me what my best option seems to be, I reject their thinking and I make a different choice.
However, can we just say it is also uncool behavior from that online friend.
Ghosting someone is not good communication skills. It is unfair. While you are busy ghosting someone, you should at least not instantly repost copy-paste, what they send to you privately, while still not answering to them. It feels very much like Linda sending passive-aggressive signals to Cecilia.
When you feel a real need to post on the interwebs about your very personal reasons for leaving your job, you can make the reasons "your own" and you can use your own words. Human history is full of so many words for the same thing. There is no need to copy-paste private messages, while ignoring the person who sent them.
If Linda is upset then she can say that she is upset. If she does not know why or how, she can say exactly that. If she needs time for her own reasoning she can say that. If she is so helpless that she decides to ghost, that is unkind but maybe she is helpless like that. But then ghost, dont repost.
If Linda is trying to tell Cecilia something, maybe she should work on using words. If she wants to cut off contact then she should a, say so and b, maybe also stop reading or using Cecilia's messages. If she wants to connect but is lost for words, then she could at least say that and not leave Cecilia hanging.
But then, if you are going to try and be friends with a person who has been struggling with self love, and also with healthy boundaries and social connection, then being tempted to make certain mistakes, having to train yourself out of that, and also your being treated in weird ways instead of straight forward ways, is part of the game.
Maybe Linda finds it hard to figure out, how she feels or what she truly thinks. Maybe she feels something clearly but does not know how to put it in words. This could be why she copy-pastes someone elses words, and also why she would stop communicating entirely when it becomes hard.
I don't see how the only relevant factor in this situation is Cecilia's arrogance or her need to be right. I hear a story of two humans trying to figure out this game called life.
Yes, it is wise to let people make their own "mistakes". They can learn, or it is their path and their fate, or you can learn that their choice wasn't actually so bad. You would not want something you told someone to do, to go bad for them. You can ask if your perspective would be welcomed, and if yes, then you can offer your perspective. It needs to be their choice, if possible.
We are all human. Let us still try to connect in the most kind and beautiful ways. We do our best and we learn as we go. Probably everyone should do the Crappy Childhoof Fairy Connection Bootcamp once a year.
Yea she is a coward and passive aggressive to boot. And the letter writer should have just left it..
I feel you Cecilia. You want to help. Also you have some unmet need to be acknowledged and validated. I would try to separate wanting to help and wanting to be validated. They come from 2 different places. The validation issue can't really be met by people, only ourselves. Getting to a place where you feel worthy and don't need that from people will help your relationships. I totally get it though. Less than perfect here and I absolutely get it.
I'm can be like this sometimes, I will give unsolicited advice, not to be right, but to help someone not get hurt. I guess it's wrong. Sometimes people make poor choices (def myself included) and it's hard to watch someone make a huge mistake and not say anything. There have been times when I have made terrible decisions and wished someone warned me.
I would never say "I told you so" if someone didn't want to listen and their decision went wrong but it's hard to see someone go through that pain over and over, its hard to support someone who seems to want that drama in their life. I've learned to stay out of people's lives like that but then they think I dont care anymore. I just stay to myself. I've been in therapy most of my adult life so I'm probably way off the mark here.
I feel for Cecilia that Linda directly quoted her words for a public post. It’s not about wanting credit or being right, it just seems like an extremely shady thing to do on social media. Like if someone posted your private messages. Or that feeling you get when you hear someone bring up something you only mentioned to a whole other person.
I also thought that. There is a certain etiquette on social media so I can understand why Linda's behavior made Cecilia upset. And even if Cecilia's been too pushy, that doesn't justify Linda ignoring her. Friendship works both ways.
I’d actually want a friend to tell me what they think even if I don’t ask. But obviously do not pressure me if I’m not taking the advice. I think friendship is a mix of advice and leaving things be. It’s the same when you have a child. Sometimes you have to just let the child experience and learn, rather than hold their hand all through life. So in a friendship it’s much easier. Cus you’re not their parent! You don’t have to worry about them. A simple “I think personally you can do better than that job but I truly wish you the best” would suffice
That was the learning she needed. Sometimes you have to try something to see for yourself.
People do what they wanna do .This is something I learned very late in my life. This comes from my very very controlling parents and my mom who enjoyed manipulating me so on with her problems so on...All my life I was the one who tired to protect and love my mom . Later in ife I all the time tried to warn others when I saw they were doing something won't turn out to be good for them. Just like her many left me and stop talking with me.I did in t know why , of course.Much much later , they would tell me ohh you were right so on.. how did you know. But being right is not important .Loosing my energy , gettin guest with their insensitive behavior , lost time so on are more important.Well, thats the lesson I learned . And now I will not warn people. I will only talk if they truly ask my help.
It’s completely like this with boyfriends too. I mean even if you think 🤔 you know what is coming, you need to wait and see what unfolds for people.
I remember when a friend got a dog, I thought 💭 terrible 😣 idea. It turned out this antisocial dog 🐩 was perfect 🤩 for them.
You know what? Cecilia "knew" what's best for her friend because her friend straight up SAID so before _and_ after the decision. She was pressured into it by "everyone else", cut off the side that told her to stop and didn't want to take a blow to her ego afterwards. Yes, the letter writer may have been pushy, but she stopped it at some point, yet her friend's behaviour afterwards was unnecessarily hurtful. If she was simply afraid of being judged she didn't have to use the same words and it's easy to believe she did in fact use that as her own insight, and of course it's annoying to the person who was ghosted for using that exact reasoning! The letter writer was a bit too invested and got betrayal smeared all over them. It's plain to see, for me at least.
Honestly I think your reaction to Cecillia's letter was harsh. It doesn't sound like Cecillia was harsh with her friend unless she left some stuff out. I too am perplexed how folks can be too stubborn to forgive. She tried to make amends with her friend but her friend was stubbornly unforgiving. Why?! Her friend has issues and maybe pride herself.
I'm not sure but...the uncomfortability of change, pressure for this woman to make the decision. We don't know what is in this woman's history...but if she has cptsd at ALL..she may have felt overwhelmed & pushed. We have to make our own boo boos in life & have the right to take full credit for them.
@Mary Sicola ok. Trauma made Cecilia too pushy. Trauma made Linda cut off the friendship. But they both contributed to the problem of a lost friendship.
Its online as well it doesn't sound like an honest, open connection. The passive aggressive one has major issues.
Did you MISS that her friend AGREED with LW about why the job was wrong, but everyone at work pressured her??
Very interesting share! I had myself suffered, even recently from pressure from other people, it was hurting for me. I feel it very intrusive and even manipulation that someone strong believes (s)he knows better than me. Sometimes it's true on some aspects, must as you explained respect should be here, and often it's just projection, the person it pushing hard how (s)he would manage the situation (and it means what I was living was triggering for this person; while since months I'm rather working on myself on acceptance, surrendering).
From my side too, I noticed that I have also tendency to tell too much sometimes, it asks awareness and asking feedback from the other one if it's ok or if the boundaries need adjustment. Several times, even if it was hard for me to witness the disaster or suffering coming, I had to stay silent, because hearing something is very different from living it as a rooted and integrated experience.
I would’ve liked to see the friend’s behavior also called out as inappropriate. It’s bad communication to just cut someone off without first giving them a chance to make it right, or communicating at least to be clear about your feelings. I mean I get both sides but there is dysfunction there.
I don’t trust people who purport to know what’s best for me…who assert that they know me better than I know myself…who discount my right to make my own choices and my own mistakes…who push and pressure me or stomp over the line into my personal spaces, choices and thoughts.
As a friend, I’m a sounding board-someone who can share perspectives that might not be easily accessible to my friend-someone who can ask open ended questions to help them uncover their motives, desires, fears and hopes…for themselves.
Sometimes we make a choice that appears to be “wrong” for us, because we want to find out for ourselves whether or not it actually is…and to find out the parameters of our stamina, our limits, etc…and test our beliefs and values, and what we’re made of. That’s how we learn sometimes…and how we learn to stand.
I find a lot in relationships has to do with control. When we see vulnerability or uncertainty in someone we love, our inclination might be to protect them, or to take charge…but I personally find that disrespectful.
Instead of telling friends what I think they should do, I like to have them tell me what THEY plan to do.
Then I'll just talk them through it, asking questions like, "What if...happens?" or, "What will you do if....?" "Oh, I see. You want to...because..." "And if..., then you'll....?" etc. You are a curious and supportive friend that is interested in knowing how they'll handle foreseeable problems.
This keeps the ball in their court. They're in complete control. Sometimes they'll tell me, "You know, I never thought of that. What would you do?" If this happens, I offer advice on what I'd do in their position, but I never, EVER suggest they take it. Your advice can backfire, and then guess who they're going to blame!
Of course, you can point the finger at someone and claim they made you do something, but deep down everyone knows that in reality it was still YOUR decision to take their advice. You cannot escape responsibility for your life, and this quiet truth is why it is so irritating to be told what to do. At the end of the day, you're the one that has to deal with the consequences of a decision, not the adviser. Whenever someone pressures me to do as they say because they "know better," I ask them: can I hold you accountable for this decision? No? Then back off and let me own this.
Know when you've said enough and shut up about it. I've been learning the hardway. People get in my face when I've done such things. So I just try to back away , yeah and i agree that the woman wasn't plagerizing when she said what she did about leaving the job. The "friend" should feel vindicated that she was right, but not brag about it or mention it again. A friend doesn't rub salt in the wound so to speak.
Not a real friend. Let her go. Sometimes a friend just wants to be honest, and if the friend was a real friend, she would have forgiven you. No one is perfect. The former friend was never a friend. Online friend at that.
wow... it's not about you Cecilia!! This letter is so hard to listen to. You are no better than your friend. How suffocating!
You seem to have some problems.
In this I also see the tendency to feel slighted for not getting credit for being “right”. I struggle with this too.
Sometimes people are making you worse. I started working out and my friend was like "make sure to take breaks and don't do TOO much cardio!" When I was doing like 15 minutes of cardio. And then I dyed my hair and she had a back handed comment. And then she offered to make me a steering wheel cover 6 months ago, and when my co-worker made me one out of the blue my "friend" went on a whole thing about them not being safe (even though she made them to sell in the past?) So sometimes you have friends that aren't good for you and they're literally trying to make you less than.
I feel for both Celia & Linda. I hope they can both get past it, heal and make the rest of their friendship beautiful!
☮️💟
Everyone makes mistakes, and so we are on the CZcams channel to learn about our mistakes. You may realize you made your own mistake in how you interacted with Linda and so be that good friend to yourself and encourage yourself, the same way Linda might have wanted encouragement after the job didn’t work out ❤️
Thanks for sharing these kind words! -Calista@TeamFairy
Maybe Linda is an AI? We gotta stop thinking online friends are real . If you dont meet them in real life or talk on the phone for hours stop giving them your mental real estate.