Here's Some Helpful Hints When Looking For Failing Common Rail Cummins Injectors!
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- čas přidán 18. 07. 2022
- Hello Guys! This is not a comprehensive look at failing CR injectors, but this is a great look at some early symptoms of failing injectors. This is a truck that I know the background on pretty well and have done a lot of work on over the past 10 years. Heck, not only did I do this injector swap, I did the last set of injectors about 120 - 130k ago too. This truck has always been run with a Baldwin 5 micron filter. If you need one for your truck cause you don't have a aftermarket 2 micron filter on there, consider helping out the channel by buying one through out affiliate link below! It doesn't cost you extra, but it does help support making more videos for the channel!
Again!!! Extra Warning here!!! There are too many possible ways for CR injectors to fail, so please don't risk a healthy motor with a set of bad injectors. Sometimes they fail slowly and sometimes the die in a blaze of ROD throwing glory!!! Don't let that be you! Pay attention and get good quality injectors in your motor, then feed them well filtered fuel!
Oh yeah, here's that affiliate link to the Baldwin PF9777 filters I mentioned above... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
This was very helpful!! When I drive 30 miles per hour, the stuck will exhilarate at a higher speed. I had to throw it in neutral and cut it off. Never could figure out what was wrong.
So the symptom you are demonstrating is what is commonly called "rail hang", it is a condition where the rail pressure does not drop when you let off of the throttle. Regardless of the cause which is most always excessive return from the injectors I will address the effect.
The algorithm that controls system rail pressure via the FCA, which is actually named the mprop by Bosch is operating in the upper control range of the PWM signal. In simple terms the control amount is incremental and if you could monitor this you would see that it is likely maxed out by the requested rail pressure, so therefore incrementally in a count down from say a max 255 or whatever back to desired pressure will take a longer time to increment through. The PID settings in the ECM are pretty slow to respond (increment or decrement) based upon the calibration.
What is happening is the CP3 is having to provide essentially its maximum output as it is a variable displacement pump, via the stroking of the mprop, so if it is running essentially wide open, and then the request is idle output, it takes longer for the pump to reduce its output which is evident and observable by looking at a mismatch between desired and actual pressures.
Further the degradation of the injectors could cause additional fuel to be injected as can be realized by doing a SOI test. Backleak/return should always be checked, but you like others do not have actual testing parameters that are accurate to follow, tools do exist to do accurate non-intrusive testing.
Excellent explanation. Measuring injector return flow would be interesting.
Thanks! Lucky my new to me 03 seems OK !
Yo Claremont Classic! So glad to hear! 03 CR's seem to be better on the Injector nozzle and internals not failing (In our experience), But the solenoids failing seem to be a more common issues. We love those motors and hope you love the Cummins!
YOU ROCK 0 nice drip test!!
Hey really appreciated your common rail rebuild videos, my son and I rebuilt his 04. We have it running but would love to have you guys hear it run, it idles great but sounds like it has a miss when it is accelerated. It has a straight four in pipe.
Hi There Paul! If you want you can shoot us a clip of what it is doing over to us on Instagram (it has nice high quality video) @dieseldealfinder or look us up on Facebook, or just upload a video of it here on CZcams and then link us to it.
Good information thanks for posting. I have a 06. 5.9 noticed truck sounded louder and noticed it is idling faster then it ever used to. Any pointers be great thanks
This was really helpful, have had my 03 for just over a year but I'm sure it had bad injectors when I bought it
Hey Simon! So glad to hear that it helped you out some. Have you already gotten them replaced or are you still working towards that?
@@70440charger I have not done anything. After I bought about a year and half ago I noticed the oil was over full thought maybe they just got carried away with the oil change. Now its over full again so I was pretty sure I'm getting fuel in my oil and after watching this I did the idle rev and it has that hold then popping as the rpms come down not quite as bad as the video but it's there
@@Simon-rj2up my truck is doing the same thing you just explained did you find out what it was?
Good stuff.
Any secret stuck closed injector secret test?
Love the videos man! I’ve got a 2012 Cummins. Love the truck but I sometimes have a puff of greyish/white smoke come out the tail pipe when letting off the gas. If I’m in cruise control and the truck slows itself down it will spew out the smoke for a few seconds. Any idea on what would cause it?
How are the industrial injection injectors holding up?
The rev test on my 2003 5.9 is not looking good. The RPMs on the way down are not smooth and I can hear what sounds like injector tapping in short bursts. Is there a way to contact you to get your opinion on how they sound?
I purchased my 06 back 2014 and as soon I got back in SCarolina the injectors failed. Put a set of remans in (I treat my fuel every fill up with optilube XPD) and now I have 130,000 miles on the odo. My question is when should I start looking to have a set of injectors in? What brand of injectors( how much) and should I go with remans or new injectors. thanks
I bought a 2006 single cab 4x4 5.9 with 6 speed that had about 265k on it, I don't drive her very much, 5 years later only has 292k.... no idea how long those injectors have been in there. I do a new Baldwin filter every 2500 miles, and I add Hotshot Secret fuel additive every fill up. Almost no sign of them being bad as far as I can tell, and yet, they are on my mind every time I light it up. Injectors are the Killer Dowel Pin of the otherwise awesome 5.9 24v Common Rail lol
2500 miles is wayyyy over kill. Change your fuel filter when you change your oil.
My truck has dual cp3s, and i get a studder when starting out. It gets worse as the motor warms up. I have replaced both FCAs and the controller. Any ideas on what this could be?
My 2004.5 vin C
325/600
Has what feels like and sounds like a rod knock.
Under 1000 miles on a rebuilt block, head, turbo, injectors. 100% stock everything.
The knock is intermittent and very difficult to replicate sometimes. It does it at 1500-1700 rpm while cruising lightly if I feather the throttle to accelerate a bit. That's the only way it'll do it.
Is this a sign of a bad injector?
I've been to 5 diesel shops and they still can't nail it.
🙏Please and thank you.
I got an 05 2500 5.9 What does it mean if I rev my engine and I take my foot off it’s still reving for 2-3 seconds after my foot is off ?
Mine does the same thing but after it idles for a couple of minutes it will start knocking like a gas motor then clear up.
Hey Doug had a bad injector replaced it discovered it had a crack 11 months later after I dumped 2 1/2 gallons in the crankcase I replaced the injectors from a company that rebuilds them in Pensacola Florida Pensacola diesel I have since had to pull out three of their injectors on warranty where can I get a good set of injectors it seems like there's tons of knockoff Chinese Bosch online 2005 5.9 6-speed manual stock injectors
For the past couple weeks my '03 3rd Gen will cut-out and blow white/gray smoke whenever I get on the pedal "somewhat" aggressively a/k/a not "passing a car" aggresive, just medium-ish throttle input. However, if I go easy on the pedal, I can keep the cut-out issue from happening and the truck continues to avg 17+ mpg around town. That said, I did notice the fuel pressure reading on my Quadzilla iQuad is reading in the 50s (vs the normal 10-12 psi) which I originally figured was nothing more than a bad Quadzilla lift pump pressure gauge sensor, however, now I'm not so sure and thinking the excessive lift-pump pressure may be a sign of something more ominous, such as a bad "open" injector back-feeding pressure into the rail(?) If anyone has any thoughts on what might be going, by all means, please let know... thanks!
mine does this same exact thing, you ever figure out what it was?
Just put on a cold air intake, from dead stock truck. Only 160k miles on the truck, whenever I get into the top end it seems like the injectors are starting to stick after adding better airflow from the cold air intake, will update if there is further problems. 🥲 also just ordered a MM3 from 5.9diesel so hopefully I’m not gonna be dropping another 3k on some 25-50% injectors 😭
K&N piece of shit was the issue, replaced injectors due to mileage, threw in 5.9 Diesel’s tuner now I’m having random rpm knocks and puffs of smoke after about 1.5k miles on new injectors
Quick question should the frp be at 6 and above ? Cause on my 6.7 is at 4.9 the frp on the edge gauge. Sometimes I have a hard start. Thanks. Great channel
Hey there! If your rail pressure is at 4.9k, I personally would want to look into that. I have never seen a healthy CR Fuel system be that low. Someone else might have, but not me! So If it were me, I would want to start by looking at the simple things like is the fuel filter dirty, is the lift pump putting out the proper volume and pressure, and then work up from there. Oh yeah, and it would be worth checking to make sure the gauge is reading properly... It would be pretty crappy to do a bunch of work only to find out a pressure sensor was spitting out a signal that was .05 volts too low.
Now if we want to go wild, could it be low cause the cross over tube are not torqued properly and its bleeding pressure off or are the injector check valves worn and they have too much return? Is the fca or the CP3 worn out? Maybe... And worth thinking about... But I wouldn't start with the worse case scenario! Hope that help some!
Ok thanks. I will look into to that.
Thanks man and best of luck!!! Let us know what you find. If your truck were an 03-04 truck I would say it was the solenoids dying. Cause those years love to do that!
On your 12 valve swapped 3rd gen how did you run the throttle cable. I got an 04.5 and it just has an electric pedal with just wires going under the hood that just stuck an injector and torched a cylinder pretty bad. Been contemplating a 12 valve swap
So if you have the Electric pedal you have to swap it for a gas pedal or an 03-04 pedal. Once you do that then you can just use the standard throttle cable for the 99-04 trucks. The swap is NOT quick. Lots of people make the assumption that just because a 12v (p pump swapped 24v as well) will start and run just by lifting up on the fuel shut off, that it will be a quick deal. Well, while that is true, it will be a truck that is worthless to drive and a hassle to start and stop and will not have any of the factory feel. Then thats where people start hacking things up instead of doing it right the first time! It may sound like I am trying to talk you out of it, but I am not.... I have just gotten too many phone calls over the years from people who hate their swapped trucks and when I start digging into how they did the build 9/10 times they hacked the crap out of their truck. I loved my swapped trucks and am working on the next one right now. Wouldn't have it any differently. But I just want you to have eyes wide open as you are going into it, if you do! Thanks for stopping and commenting here!
Got an 06 with 229K miles with no blowby or oil leaks. I don't drive it much but starting to notice a light black puff of smoke at start up for a second or so. I have a MM3 with custom tunes, but really don't use it since it causes it to smoke a little and it sounds like it's pinging (normal?). I don't know if the injectors are original or not and thinking about replacing them. What are your thoughts on Big Bang Injectors?
Hi there! If you don't have blow by at 229k, you have won the lottery! I really love these truck, but rings and bad injectors have killed a ton of motors! It's possible that it has stock injectors, but more than likely, they have been swapped.
Any change you have a video of it starting that you can link us to? Who wrote the mm3 tune, and do you trust them? Does it do the puff both with the tune and without it? Do you think you could capture the pinging sound on camera? There is a condition called fuel knock that is sometimes associated with injectors that are dying to bad programming, but I don't have a video right this second thay I can send you to so that you can compare sounds. If you have a video of what yours sounds like, send it our way.
And BBI is a pretty good group to work with, if you have the $$$. Again, if there is room in the budget, I have really liked working with exergy and Torque Diesel Motorsports. TDM does a lot of injectors for some of the other people, and is one of the few who has the tools to actually properly rebuild a CR injector.
Hope that helps some and let us know how it goes!
I have some white smoke at start up. Goes away after 30 seconds. Never did that before owned the truck two years now. 04.5 truck. About 190k on it. Seams a tad choppy at idle for that 30 seconds to me Drive it and it seams fine as far as power and responsiveness. No noticeable difference in anything but that. Good coolant level and oil looks mint. No programmer on the truck to read much.
I’m super scared to drive it right now as it’s never done that before. Short of buying a programmer to read rates and or rail pressure and stuff. Does this sound like injector symptoms to you? I’ll do that rev test in the morning see if it’s dragged out like your video.
Thanks so much for stopping by exclamatiokumar. Have you tried looking for fuel leaks question? The white smoke that you're talking about happens quite frequently when there is an air leak in the system. A fuel pressure Guage up near the pump will help check. If it is at the head of the system and it fluctuates, then there is air in the system. Cause air compresses and fuel doesn't! Let us know what you find.
I had white smoke at start up. I changed the oil, only had 4 quarts in the drain pan. Is this a injector problem or is it burning oil. Oil change was at 7500 miles. From the cold weather until now .
From cold pretty common to burn some oil or any moisture in the system.
Im having these symptoms in my 03 5.9 24v. It also seems to Be down on power. Would that be another symptom of bad injectors or could it be something else? It has no blow bye. It does put out greyish smoke going down the road as well.
Hello there! Have you tried changing your fuel filter and air filter? Also, I know it seems unlikely, but check for boost leaks. Sometimes they are hard to find, but can cause a lot of the same issues.
Dealing with the same thing on my 03 as well.
I’ve got a 2012 Cummins and can here a ticking noise coming from exhaust tailpipe. It has 245k with stock injectors. No smoking at idle, No under hood ticking or knocking noise. Just adjusted the valves thinking it was exhaust side taping but still doing it after setting lash to .010 intake & .020 exhaust. No drivability concerns except the weird noise from tailpipe. Would you say needs new injectors?
Did you ever find anything out ?
I see the frp bouncing around. Is that normal? Mine does the same and I’m not sure that’s a good sign. Suspecting bad injectors at 176k miles on my 06.
Hey there Jared! We have had several CR's with good gauges and both brand new injectors and used ones. Our rail pressure has always varied a good bit.
not to beat a dead horse but any comments on fuel treatment?
Hey Lyle! We do have some that we like! Are you just looking to keep the injectors healthy or are you looking to get a bump in power? Thanks, Doug
What part # is that Baldwin filter you use pleasez??
I got a little haze but it’s 100 over injectors with a smarty sr on 5 should I have a little haze ?
Thanks for stopping by! Hopefully we can help some. Is that a constant haze that you are seeing? Are your injectors stock size? Is your air filter clean? Have you checked for boost leaks?
Ok 06 g56... Truck runs fine, no hanging idle... No smoke no haze like you said. Had an edge tuner for monitoring guages, got rid of that to go to custom tunes with smarty mm3. This tells me the balance rates, and I've got 1 that is between +3 and +4 (cyl 5 it says, but could be in firing order) but sometimes it goes down in low 2s. In neutral and idling. No signs of failure. If that one is at say +4 (so it's under fueling and ecm is adjusting) will be it ok to run for a little bit before I save up?
Hey N Sacco! Thanks for stopping by. What first clued you into the fact you had an issue? Have you noticed some kind of abnormal behavior outside of what you mentioned or did you just check the balance rates as a precaution? Doug
@@70440charger well I had an excessive return code for a couple minutes one time then it went away. Ever since I've been paranoid and since I just got a different tuning platform thought I'd check them out. I'm assuming since it's underfueling it shouldn't torch my cylinder walls 😅
To answer your question, yes it was as a precaution. But knowing I had a code at one point was thinking it was just a fluke thing since it hasn't come back.
Would a leak at the grid heater /intake horn cause these symptoms
Hi there! Thanks for stopping by! Sorry for not catching your comment sooner! I am sure you have already fixed your grid heater air leak/ boost leaks, but I figured it would be helpful to respond for anyone else who might be looking through here.
A boost leak will cause excess black or gray smoke on accelerationor sustained load, but will not cause the slowness to return to idle (rail hang or floating down).
I came across you channel when searching for what's wrong with my truck. Hopefully u can help. I have an 08 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins. It's fully deleted with a 75mm turbo and a fass fuel system along with some other stuff. Here's my issue once I get the truck up to temp and I let off of the accelerator and push the break it billows white smoke. It only does this 1 time till I let it cool down and heat back up again. My coolant is clean and staying full and so is my oil. I'm baffled on what's going on with it. Any help will be much appreciated!
Sorry to hear about your trouble. I don't think this will be your problem, but how is your blowby?
How many miles are on the truck?
How long have you had the 75mm?
Who built it or is it box stock?
What tuner are you using?
Does it seem have any relation to fuel level?
Is the puff immediate? Or delayed?
@@70440charger it has 183k miles, I had the upgrades done at about 175k. Supposed to have a flash tune on it but the guy turned out to be a scam artist so I basically had to rebuild the whole truck myself. Only thing left from him isn't the turbo and the tune (witch I'm looking into EFI live currently) when redoing the truck I checked the turbo and the shaft seems tight with no play and didn't see any sign of oil on either the intake or exhaust side. I also recently put a new CCV filter in. I check it today and it was still good, not a lot of blow by. Last thing I did was put a fass fuel system on it (100gph) it started around that time(maybe alil after) interning side note. I found out my trucks been running without the fass system due to a blown relay for a few months now. I recently caught it and fixed it but the smoke continues. It's really strange cuz it will only smoke 1 time per drive. When it goes from cold to hot it will blow smoke once the engine is to temp and after I let of the gas it takes a second or 2 to start then once I press the break is seems to smoke more. If I accelerate it clears up. Then once it happens it will not smoke again till it's shut off and cooked down all the way. I was thinking maybe an injector is sticking open or something idk. It's been driving me nuts. Thanks for the response btw much appreciated!
I just changed my injectors and i still get a tiny bit of smoke on a cold start up (80+ degrees here in FL) what could be done
Thanks for the message! Just to make sure we are on the same page, is this smoke out of the tail pipe? Also it would be helpful to know what year your truck is, what brand and size are the injectors? Has the truck ever had any motor work done and does it have blow by?
@70440charger yeah just a lil puff. Its a 2004 4x4 with the HO pre 2004.5. Bosch and stock size. And its got 500k miles 0 blow by
Where can I get this filter? I have 118,000 miles on my truck so I’m starting to think about changing my injectors soon. I think I am going to go for NEW oem boshc or something. I want the best money can buy. I’m not going for power, staying stock.
What should I get?
Thanks!
Hi there! What year is your truck? If its a common rail, then you should check out a baldwin PF7977. Here is link to the exact set of filter that I just used not more than a month ago....ebay.us/ObdMMc
These filters are only for the 5.9 or will they work on the 6.7 too lmk thanks
@@70440charger 2003 5.9
2013 6.7 with a lot black smoke and no power at all, cp3? Injectors? Turbo? Any ideas thanks.
Hi thanks for stopping by? Do you have a boost Guage? Is this a factory he351vgt turbo or an aftermarket turbo? Is it deleted?
Injector failure isn't as common on those 6.7 as it is on the earlier 5.9 CR's. So I personally wouldn't just to that conclusion right away...
Yes deleted and factory turbo.
Thanks for you reply
im going to buy a truck and the owner says everythings good no blow by but only injector 6 is failing, is that a big deal?
Big deal, if 1 is on its way out, rest are close behind. Couple grand for injectors, not including install (if a mechanic will be installing them).
Question, got 05 199k, studded last year, super b special, full 5” cat back,33 over injectors,stock cp, pusher pipes, cai, elbow, grid delete, smarty touch….live in fl when temp in 40s 50s 60s first start in morning truck start runs stalls, second try starts and runs, got 1800 stall triple disc, shift kit,when driving and temp below 165 it runs rough, little boost and so on, once temp reaches 165 it runs like champ boost to 40 psi, cold start RP is 7k psi and idle is 7200 psi, no white smoke at cold start, only black under heavy acceleration…ran contribution test results on sw3
-#1-99
#2-97
#3-112
#4-105
#5-89
#6-99
Cyl 1-3 have 102
Cyl 4-6 have 97
Have you tried running different tunes? Is the trans tuned? I just ordered a smarty touch and going with 5.9Diesel’s custom tunes.
@@TheUnknownSacrifice yeah tried sw3 ,5 and 7 , played around with timing and trq management, pulls good…more responsive but runs best on stock file , I talk to Rob at 5-9 while back and I’ll go with his tuning as he also tunes tranny
Would that mean all of the injectors are failing or could just one bad one cause this?
As will all common rail stuff, its hard to give you an answer that cover all of the possibilities. But I would say that typically you would have multiple failing and not just one. I suppose if you had one that was bad enough, it would be possible... but that is pretty unlikely. In our experience the majority of CR injectors we have send in for testing (even some freshly rebuilt) have failed. I am not trying to scare you, but just be real with you cause the consequences are so bad, if you gamble and guess wrong. For example, we sent off 18 injectors for testing and 3 or 4 came back as good. We took those and bought 3 or whatever more to complete the set and my friend drove from GA to Idaho. His injectors died somewhere in Nebraska. They didn't even male the whole trip! It got luck and caught it early enough to not smoke a motor, but it was too close of comfort!
@@70440charger could poor tuning cause that hang? Cause the only sign of bad I injectors I have is that and slight rough idle when in neutral I have no smoke no loss of power or fuel in my oil
Hey really need some help. I have a 2007 6.7L with 207k miles that keeps wanting to accelerate when I have foot on the brakes. This happens only on drive and reverse. When putting it on neutral or park from reverse or drive the rpm jumps to 1,500 rpms. Is this a common rail injector problem or is it torque converter
Possibly your FCA ( fuel control actuator)I had a 2003 that did this at red lights and had to hold down the brake pedal harder.Changed it and ran perfect.I got lucky on that one
I have this same issue, changed fca, did whole too in , head gasket, for other problems, but when I put it back together the issue was still there and it has tons of blow by
Does the rpm drop down low when you are holding the brakes in drive?
@@mrmadmoody Mine the rpm sped up faster.Had to push on the brake padal harder
I'm a dodge diesel tech you got a converter issue
I get an excess return fuel notification when and only when I back off the throttle above 2400 rpm and use compression braking. It goes away after a few mins. No other symptoms. You think my injectors are smoked.?
What do you think?
What kind of programmer are you using that is giving you the heads up?
@@70440charger it’s not the programmer that gives me that, it’s the wait to start light comes on on the dash, indicating high return fuel. When I run diesel kleen for lubricity, the injectors are quieter and it doesn’t happen nearly as often.
I do have a smarty jr, but that’s irrelevant I think
EDIt - @outpost CTD is the correct channel
Actually I recommend watching his vids, they've been some of the more helpful
Hey I just watched a video by @outpost CBD and he said 'wait to start light's coming on when driving, is a huge indicator of injector failure.
@kristina stevens hmmm. What years is he referring to? We have had an awful lot of theses 03-07 specifically, and we have never seen a failure that correlated with a wait to start light. Doesn't mean that it hasn't happened, but just not over the last 15 years for us. Wait to start issues for us have always been tied to an ecu issue. Thanks for bringing that up. We will be on the lookout for that now.
What do you mean by blow bye?
Hi there! Thanks for swing by. Here is what we are talking about. czcams.com/video/-KjGekZDmPM/video.html
whats the code???
I have a 6.7 in the shop that has been tuned, no egr, big turbo. Acts like the timing is retarded and way to much fuel. new stock injectors, same things. at a total lose and have no more Idea's
I always start by asking the super simple question. Have you checked for proper fuel supply and pressure to the pump, have you checked the fuel filter, and have you done a boost leak? As a second follow on question, do you have a scanner that will check for deep codes that the truck may be throwing? I say that cause we worked on a 2014 that had an active air system and never threw a check engine code, but was a dog. It was a sensor related to the active air and tied into the Map and IAT sensor. I can't remember all the details, but before you go there, i would start super simple! Hope something in there might be helpful! Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Guys, I’m sick to my stomach. Flew from Virginia to Missouri to get a 07’ 6.7 mega cab dually.
As soon as I go to drive it away it was missing like it was starving for fuel. Changed the fuel filter. No change. No black smoke. No white smoke.
The longer I go, the more it was missing until now it’s barley getting able to reach 70 mph.
300k with original injectors.
I’m so worried it’s a rail or injector issue and I have no money for repairs, which means I can’t use the car for work. I’m stuck.
Have you check (since you have been driving it ) for blow by? Also are there any codes that pop up?
Run a whole can of seafoam through it
In the diesel...it will clear the injectors if they are cleanable