Paul Gilbert Vs. Takayoshi Ohmura Picking Style Comparison
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2021
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This video compares wrist-dominant guitar picking (a la Paul Gilbert) and circular picking (a la Takayoshi Ohmura). - Hudba
I've been developing Ohmura's picking style for about two years to the point that i can do it without thinking. It's hard AF at first but when you nail the motion, i personally felt it better.
The most important aspect of his technique is that the actual finger motion is veeeeery small, and when done correctly you don't feel nor need any tension or strength at all. The pick just flows through the strings while you barely move any muscle. HOWEVER, the other aspect and probably the most important is accentuating notes. That's when you DO apply force from the wrist, and barely, just a twitch.
So is it better than standard wrist motion? Well I don't think it's better objectively, just different. It's true that you can play anything with only wrist and it's a more natural approach.
An analogy would be: in drumming context, traditional grip is very fucking unnatural and you have to practice the grip alone to be able to play. Matched grip on the other hand is the instinctual way one would hold the sticks, next step is just play. Can you play anything with both grips? Yes, you can. Do you need to learn traditional grip if you already play with matched? Not really, but i think its worth learning, as you could find it useful when playing certain things and maybe even like the feel better.
So regarding Ohmura's technique, i like it more when playing leads as I find it much more ergonomical and relaxed than using wrist, and it's easier to play dynamically. Plus imo it looks super fucking cool 😎.
Although i agree 100% that you should NOT learn this technique without mastering the use of the wrist, it will be probably impossible to learn it otherwise.
If you got that covered, and are willing, i recommend to at least give it a try. You never know! Cheers
oh wow i brought this topic about takayoshi i wouldn´t ever imagine youd make a video on the matter, thank you this is awesome!
Takayoshi circle picking only use when he need fast pick, because his picking is a bit vertically against the string its faster and lower the chance to get stuck between the string. Actually mikio fujioka teaching about this in the video czcams.com/video/wAJhYRwFfL8/video.html
and takayoshi himself said it in this video he sometimes use another picking just for accent sound czcams.com/video/uGbMEPhl7rg/video.html
Exactly. While I don't speak Japanese, he demonstrates the "scalpel picking", which is to enhance focus to his forearm rotation movement.
I love how you break things down to their most basic level. It is really helpful!
I've learned both ways and I combine them, it gives me a lot of possibilities.
Im a huge fan of Ohmura and his technique is super clean and fast...but as an amateur/hobby player myself, Paul's style is way more realistic and practical. I think only someone who is either a pro or simply started from Day1 with Ohmura's style makes sense to use it.
Hey this is a great video!! I agree with everything you said.
I try to replicate his picking and go straight to finger based movements without thinking about the fundamentals. You're also right about having to need better hand sync due to the lighter pick attack .... but I really love Ohmura, so I'll have to practice more ! Thanks
“Scalpel picking” I believe is the term by using the thumb and index finger to pick.
There is no such thing like "the right way" to pick! When i started to play, i was very into Dream Theater (about 25 years ago). I remember watching John Petruccis "Rock Discipline" for the first time and from this day i changed my alternate picking style. I took years to finally understand the reason why he is holding his hand like he does. Every finger is important! When he's getting faster, the pinky and the ring finger are his important fingers. All the strenght and speed is depending on these two fingers. The middle finger is also very important. He used to buckle his middle finger, forms it into a "C" wich hepls him to gain gigh pressure on the strings. The thumb and index fingers are very loose so he can be very flexible. His palm is resting on his bridge. He basically just moves his arm up and down like a machine without losing control. It's like lifting weights on a machine, where the machine is your root point and you just push the weights. All he really moves is his hand, but not his whole arm. The arm is only used to change the position. I still play like this and i can tell, it's the best way to pick. John is very smart and konws exactly what kind of muscles are involved when it comes to picking. So i can highly recommend using this. It's also good to prevent you from getting tired and sloppy.
Yeah it's like the cream on the top. You can use the circle picking technique in conjunction with other techniques like the turning the key motion, but you kind of have to practice them separately. What you can get with it is a whole world of dynamics that aren't possible with pure wrist motion. Say you're playing fast 16ths and you want to accent each beat, well you can do it just with the picking pattern by having the beat picked with a flat pick and the other notes with the edge. There are a lot of opportunities that open up.
i see takayoshi picking style like yngwie malmsteen
No one else does!
Hi Tom, Takayoshi's picking is a combo of wrist and thumb/index finger movement. You are right, it is not exclusively the thumb and index alone that moving. I've discovered it while mastering his technique, i also pick using wrist like PG and JP; was just fascinated with Takayoshi's picking and all other guys out there. Richie Faulkner, Cesario Filho, and tons of Japanese are picking like Takayoshi also. I humbly think that there is a place for this technique and is beneficial. Love both these two kinds of picking btw.
Takayoshi-san, I am very proud of you!
The speed of takayoshi's technique is driven by the wrist not the fingers,the fingers just change the angle,but the fast movement and most of the work is done by the wrist.People tend to misinterpret his picking.
This technique is called scalpel picking. Buckethead uses this too.
It's great to have many different picking techniques in your arsenal
>>"It's great to have many different picking techniques in your arsenal."
I disagree.
If one technique is capable of doing everything then all others become redundant and if your technique can't do something then you are using the wrong one
Me podrias mostrar algun video que explique esa tecnica porfavor? Nunca supe que tecnica utiliza buckethead
@@HowToPracticeGuitar Why do you disagree? With scalpel picking you can play blistering fast with almost no movement at all compared to your wrist.
Bigger wrist moveements is better for strumming multiple chords fast. You can't do that with scalpel picking. Therefore being able to pick with different technique is just useful.
Buckethead uses multiple picking techniques.
I'm wondering what you think of the "new hold" that's populating the Instatube of guitarists, which is very similar to the "circular picking" that you talk about here. I still haven't figured out how they do that myself... Still too awkward and defying the laws of the grip! (I'm talking about holding the pick with just the tips of the thumb and the index fingers for technical death metal parts!)
Links to any videos?
Something important I think is that Ohmura doesn't do this when playing at slower speeds. The big reason he gives why he does this in all the clinics I've found is for the accents that he focuses on immensely. I have his beginner guitar instructional book and there are multiple exercises and passages written about the important of accenting, very few about this "snap" picking style.
Another important point is that I'm pretty sure he got this style from ESP academy teacher, the late Mikio Fujioka. He's said in interviews that he was already pretty fast before he went to music school. If all of this is true then that confirms that he had a deep understanding of these picking mechanics with full wrist motion and THEN built on top of that with his own unique style of picking.
All in all, doing this in the beginning is really not a good idea. If players want to be like Ohmura they shouldn't introduce this into their playing until the point where he does(there's a video on CZcams which showcases him playing a simple passage repeatedly with increasing speed; you can see at what speed he begins using his index finger at and there are 3 different camera angles).
I personally would recommend both of his instructional books if you don't mind using Google translate or know Japanese. He put a lot of thought and foresight into them(he was an ESP instructor for years) and its very easy to understand.
The book is written in English ??
@@vk8766 Nope. It's in Japanese. The exercises obviously can be looked at without knowledge of Japanese and the Japanese text can be read decently well through google translate scanning. Unfortunately, English speakers will have to fill in the blanks especially if you are not familiar with Ohmura or speed picking technique in general. But, this is not too difficult thanks to the visuals Ohmura provides in my opinion. Your mileage may vary if you're looking at it specifically to try and develop picking technique.
what are those books? i cant find them :(
No. He did not pick this up from Mikio Fujioka. Fujioka was his colleague at MI Japan. He picked this technique most likely from his ACTUAL teacher Kelly Simonz… most students from Kelly Simonz pick like that
@@nunofrgSomething along the lines of "Takayoshi Ohmura Guitar Dojo", published by Young Guitar, sorry for the belated response.
People just don't realize that he is not picking exclusively from the fingers.
He is 100% using his wrist ALL THE TIME in conjunction with the finger movement to change the pick's angle.
But he does it in a way that makes his wrist movement not obvious
I'd bring an additional approach to this argument. Aesthetics. Ohmura's technique and circle picking in general is a lot cooler to look at in a live setting.
I don't Dig It. Looks too delicate for the agressive sound you hear
How did the algorithm not suggest this channel before? My thumbs are waiting to be broken!
I pick that way but with my thumb and middle finger, since ‘81
Actually at the time many players did due to an Van Halen article where he explained how he holds his pick I believe his description was later called out of context but even Paul Gilbert say he still does it sometimes when he “really wants to dig in”
The reason it’s not common is due to instructors like yourself making corrections, I never had an instructor and we didn’t have internet or even tablature then
So you just played and used whatever technique you could come up with to accommodate your target,
We played AlDimeloa, Paco D, John McLaughlin bits as well as that was popular at the time so “speed” was in
It’s irrelevant as long if it gets the job done
I still use this technique and can still accommodate my 220 metronome nightly
There is no “hands down” better way
You really shouldn’t knock it until you have tried it without the knowledge of any other way
If you want the speed and work, it comes
It’s quite comfortable for me and my picking hand barely moves
Most shows bring other guitarist to the stage after sets asking how I pick so fast
At the beginning of your vid, is that your top clean speed?
I can't argue that. Great video like always.
Question? I noticed most great players play with the pick slightly angled down. But for many years (10+) I played with it pointing up. Is this why I can't sweep? Is it hindering me?
When I try playing with the pick pointing down it feels like I'm a noob again.
Could you do a video on your thoughts about pick angle up or down
I'll talk about it in the future.
@@HowToPracticeGuitar Thank you! I appreciate it
Good shout as I was also picking the same style. I switched to point down two years back. It has been a bumpy road. Nowadays I switch between the two even during a song. I think pointing down is probably better way to go and its easier to mute excess strings, but I cant argue the fact that I feel more comfortable and easier to strum at least with pick pointing up.
@@jaskamakynen7766 I feel the same way. It feels very difficult but I keep trying just because I see good players play angled down. So I guess I'll keep trying
You want to switch for sure. I played like that for a few years early on around 20 years ago. It's works pretty well for metal rhythms and tremolo picking, which I suspect is where you developed it, but it's terrible for shred, and angling down works for both. You just have to take it slow, note by note. Eventually it'll feel way more comfortable.
Sarod picking is also an entirely different topic as well, also, no reference to Pebber Brown? He does a great deal of detail explaining it. Can't talk about Takayoshi and not talk about Scalpel picking. Sarod has elements of Scalpel and thumb style playing.
As far statistics go, exceptions don't always prove the rule. I beat my head against the wall for years with the whole "pick form the wrist" technique with absolutely dismal progress. It wasn't until I started working on a combination of thumb and wrist that it really clicked, in terms of lead playing anyway.
I like what you said about developing traditional wrist playing before going into the finer picking motions, but that also isn't true in every instance - there's a lot to be said about the mechanics of wrist/arm and thumb (to name three). All I know is strict wrist-style practice hindered me for years.
Tried snap picking for a while then realized that playing 2 string arpeggios was a lot easier when I used my wrist nested of my thumb and index then a few years later I guess my thumb and index got strong and I was able to apply snap picking and saw the benefits of it but it’s still not as fast as using my wrist iam sure the speed I’ll come but yeah it takes time
wow so much detail
2:15 I like that you understand statistics as a guitar instructor and musician. The outliers are hardly worth a mention.
I’m watching! Mikie ! 👍🏻
Grew up with a guitar virtuoso.. he used wrist and arm. Could play clean lightning fast. He said that was the easiest way to do it.
Why is PG always used as the pinnacle of alternate picking? Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of both PG&JP but IMO Petrucci is more creative in using sequence and pattern of alt picking into his solos.
PG always use that Intense rock I pattern in all of his picking runs. While JP has more variations not even shown in his Rock Discipline video. I can play almost all PG picking licks (not as fast though) but when I tried JP licks my picking became super sloppy. As I Am solo is a good example to test alternate picking, guaranteed to improve your picking technique
IDK, maybe they've never seen or heard Liquid Tension Experiment, let alone tried to play the licks. If they did, they'd immediately say: "Damn, that's on a whole different level ..."
michael romeo is underrated but can be considered as one of the cleanest clean economy picker ever
Kinda complicates things. Just be sure to play clan and mute the unused strings. Slower then gradually faster. Then your technique will develop on its own. just based on what I noticed on myslef, my picking adjust by itself when it knows you will do string skipping. I do circular thumb picking btw. Hope this helps!
Cool answer,I felt same way 🤘
Maybe there isn't many using their thumbs because that technique was develloped by mikio fujioka and takayoshi ohmura. I tend to think you're wrong because their technique is faster that why they use both techniques wrist mouvement is easier but thumbs mouvement is hands down faster.
Picking only becomes a real challenge when u want to be flexibel and switch strings and not same number of notes on one string .. I think then it really comes into play how u hold the pick and ur arm etc where circular motion which also can be applied through arm motion becomes an option just as the other motions to switch strings
Luego de 7 años de tocar la guitarra con la muñeca cambie a tocar solo con el pulgar e índice, llevo 4 años adaptándome y se me ha facilitado un montón tocar rápido ya que uso el mínimo de esfuerzo y tensión, eso no sucede cuando usas la muchacha para tocar rápido requieres más esfuerzo.
His picking looks as if he’s using the thumb and index but it’s forearm pronation and supination. There can be a small amount of thumb flexion and extension but this is usually from having the joints relaxed and free, not necessarily from intentionally picking from those specific joints.
He uses the muscles that are responsible for moving your wrist up and down like Yngwie or Chris Brooks not his actual thumb muscle and that's smart because you have endurance that way.
I disagree with your approach. Everyone's biomechanics are different. You shouldn't force ppl to play one way because it's THEORETICALLY the right way. You might limit someone finding their own way that would allow them to be super fast because you're telling them to go by the book. You should use it as a baseline and let them know they there's no limits and that they can choose what works for them.
He calls it snap picking not circle picking. He accents the first note quite a lot, he has a video actually explaining it on detail.
very true.
I want to be a unique guitar player and be one of the minor. To be like that I have to find unique ways of playing and expressing myself. Playing guitar is not only about sitting in a chair playing everything perfect. Its about how it looks from the audiance pow. I think Alternate picking looks much cooler than directional picking for example.
im using mr ohmura picking and yes u wont get tired if u do it right. circle picking is a smart technique i wonder who tf invent it
Imo…wrist technique is much easier to move from rhythm to speed runs. I’ve tried to dial in a very similar motion for both for my style.
Tho, my speed picking leaves much to be desired.
What about MAB's picking technique?
Both Gilbert and Ohmura appear to have monster hands, so normal picking rules and fretting hand thumb position do not apply and Ohmura may have been influenced by touring with Marty Friedman.
It should be understood that Takayoshi's amazing finger-wiggle picking also represents a very interesting and perhaps evolved string "escape" motion--beyond the usual "fast and clean" values. When it comes to static tremolo picking, one note/one string, Takayoshi is unmatchable. And he's got a left hand to match it. There is a video demonstrating his fantastic technique. One thing to notice is that he can start it going in a nano-second.
czcams.com/video/7QoWHFjk2mE/video.html
Takayoshi from BabyMetal's KamiBand :o
Awsome. But i dont use pick anymore. But i can still shred.
Here he is explaining his picking. The English part starts in 7:13.
czcams.com/video/uGbMEPhl7rg/video.html
Still waiting for reply with download link for your video
Email me
Showing those "funny bits" was OK to start with, but now they seem to be more of those than there is content. That gets very annoying fast!
The funny bits ARE the content!
kinda interestingly, this video buy an Yngwie fanatic, thinks that Malmsteen, of all people, uses both. Wrist for descending patterns, circular fingers for ascending. czcams.com/video/0MYtI0Uyets/video.html the part about the fingers comes in at about 4:10
It's that guy from Babymetal
You're videos are good but a more natural background would be beneficial for your videos I think.
🎸
👌 + bend thumb back & forth = perfect picking for me.
Marty friedman style rules !!!!
im sory, your face is not like guitarist face lol, but you teach us well
There is no wrong or right. This isn't a cello..and even that I have problems with there only being one way to hold a bow because some snobbish yuntz at one time decided so. For christ sakes look at the odd techniques of Marty Friedman and Jeff Beck. I've used the pick/forefinger method with a combination of wrist rotation (not up and down...sorta like EVH) for decades using a pointy/sharp pick because for me, it allows great speed and better accuracy in keeping my hand more planted by the bridge, while allowing me to minimize string noise and easier mute strings without rubbing my hand over them like I would when using the whole hand in alternate picking. To me it's a more logical approach. I know people who move their entire forearm to pick fast, which to me is just as weird as moving you're entire hand. But if that's what people feel works for them, then who am I to say it's wrong? That's as dumb as me telling someone where to put their fretting thumb...looking at you PG. ;) I've see plenty of video of Paul Kossoff NOT wrapping his thumb over the neck and still getting his amazing vibrato. Guys like PG simply have to do this because thier freakishly big hands gives them no other option. 😁
THIS! And when I looked up how others play the Technical Difficulties riff recently, I found a lot of discussions and videos about it, people having the hardest time and weirdest approaches for it ... To me, it only makes sense to use economy picking + fingers for the single note on the next string = zero wrist movement, perfect consistency and best of all: the escape movement to get back to the lower string is "free" due to stretching the fingers for the single note and bending them back for the lower notes. I wouldn't completely write off such an amazing technique like this guy does. It totally depends on what you're playing (just like Ohmura uses different picking styles for different riffs/licks).
I´ve half-seen like 55-60% of this video and if you want to play FAST..strap the GeeTaar up on your throat!!!...., *thumb-rule, adjust the guitar-strap at a comfrortable level , there should not be a difference from a sitting position and standing postision).... play a full concert of 1hr-1,50hr like that..good luck.
TAKAYOSHI OHMURA VERY INSANE PICKING
Norifumi Shima is a circle picking guitarist wich better tone than Takayoshi, who sounds a bit "thin" for my taste compared to other shredders
You should check Norifumi , he is incredible.
czcams.com/video/GFTYmmP57JY/video.html
From 2:18 he starts to use the technique
1st Viewer!
i was very into the vinnie moore style of picking .copied what he did got it down, burned into the core of by playing ,and then the bastard went and changed his picking technique and said he had been wrong for years , o well looks like my little finger on my left hand is failing long before the elbow on my right , so meh
btw that malms thumb and finger very fine movement is a rare skill ,got to respect it even though hes a dick
btw before vin changed ,and not for the better in my opinion, he was this good ,this was done in one session btw czcams.com/video/xRn5GEVbsVc/video.html
he was a monster
You are absolutely right, "Gross motor" is the better option because it involves lot of muscles, larger joints: wrist and forearm and easier to develop. "Fine motor" skills takes a lot of time but the results is the same or even less. It's like in Body building: Squat (Gross motor) involves a lot of muscle and activates them at the same time vs Leg Extension (Fine motor) just focused on the Quads. The goal of both is to increase leg size and strength but Squatting is more effective because it targets all of the muscles, instead on focusing just a particular one.
Paul Gilbert's and John Petrucci arm and wrist dominant is the way to go when alternate picking, but there's still a much better way it's Yngwie's Economy Picking!, very effortless and doesn't require unnecessary motion. great analogy btw. subscribed! :)
You may enjoy this video too: czcams.com/video/H5j0BajMKAE/video.html
@@HowToPracticeGuitar thanks gonna check it out.
Paul gilbert 🔥🔥🔥
I don't agree that the video you posted by whoever this guy is even shows what you say it does. What I see from his hand position is that he picks in a very similar fashion to Yngwie. You can even see the forearm motion in the video. If there is any thumb and index motion, it is very minimal. Certainly not worthy of being an example for or against circular picking. He's sounds good, and that is all that matters. I have seen videos of players that seem to move their thumb a lot. One of them being Nili Brosh. I don't think I would classify what she does as circular picking though. You know another person who has even more thumb movement than the guy you are presenting here? It's you. Just watch the first 10 seconds of this video.
There's other videos where you can see ohmura prickig fast and you can barely see a wrist movement.
@@James0208 I did not say he is a wrist picker. My point is that the index and thumb movement is not the most dominant part of his movement. The gross movement is forearm rotation, certainly not, "just this (index and thumb) approach". Since seeing this video, I've watched others of his. In this video, and all the others, there is a pushing and pulling with his thumb and index, but it is always reinforced by forearm rotation. Funnily enough, it's this video that has the best camera angle to see that his movement is definitely forearm rotation + a slight index and thumb push-pull. Major + fine muscle movement. He uses only forearm rotation for rhythm guitar (that I have seen anyway). It's definitely not a side to side wrist movement. Forearm rotation is definitely used by many people, as well as there are many who pick from the elbow.
x🤘🏻x
Cesário Filho is the best thumb and index finger player in the world
Takayoshi is not doing that thumb finger motion. Stop making excuses for your bad picking.
Well I believe in talk less..teach more
You talk a lot not saying nothinh
Stop looking these videos. Start playing
What make u believe that a great player can't go fast ? Music is a language and the idea is to pronounce the word well enough to be understand, the rest is bullshit. Oh by the way i'm fast.
I don't like Tak's tone either... it's empty and hollow and shrill.