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The log droppin' lab! Watching your video makes me think that the more we test and examine our gear the more we develop a close and knowledgable relationship with the equipment. Without some testing and experimentation we only have the marketing hype to rely on. Cool video man
Thanks! I think you're right on with those thoughts. I'm especially interested in testing used equipment. Many experts talk about cycles to failure and such but not about how to know when to retire stuff.
Nice experiment. Keep in mind there are 3 other factors effecting your results. The length of the rope makes a big difference as a longer rope has more room to stretch. The friction at the rigging point also plays a part as it determines how much of the portion of the rope between the GRCS and the rigging point contributes to the elasticity. And lastly, the rigidity of the rigging point will impact your results. As you commented, the tree swayed at the forces went up. So the tree itself absorbed some of the energy. So in the real world, consider those factors too. Rock climbers fully appreciate how having a longer segment of rope greatly reduces the forces.
Thanks for those thoughts! My primary goal was to compare the ropes and to keep the variables you mentioned as consistent as possible for each drop. All of the ropes we tested were anchored at the top of the tree, and we only used the GRCS to lift the log. Probably the biggest error was when we had to move the knot up on the rock climbing rope because it stretched so far that the piece hit the ground.
Aye, I try to stay away from using damaged rope for anything 😬😅. I would definitely agree that static rope in a 5:1 system would be the best. Really could even use some dyneema stuff if you wanted to go all the way 😅
I know it’s tuff to do when production is on the line but it would be interesting to test real life rigging and the forces that are put on rigging lines.
I think August Hunicke has some videos on that already. I could probably do that with the right job. Theoretically that load cell can handle more than the SWL on a 3/4 double braid rope.
@@zaccheus yeah I’ve seen them August has a lot of good content but for those who haven’t binge watched his channel😂 to see it could see it on your channel. I enjoy watching you and the explanation you give ! The trial and error that you show is good cause we all make mistakes and learn . Stay safe out there!
Aw man, I hope I didn't take an opportunity from you! This honestly could have been done way better. If I were to do it again I would do a numer of things different to make the test more consistent and my fun to watch. Got ahead and take a stab at it. I'd love to see if you come up with similar results.
@@zaccheus you didnt take any opportunity away from me man! I love your videos always excited to watch! And i have a million ideas for testing between base anchors, canopy anchors, srt vs drt theres more than enough testing for all of us! Not to mention im still waiting on my scale so i have atleast a week regardless.
@Harold Ridgeway Haha, glad to hear it. Testing content doesn't seem to be super popular here on youtube, but it is interesting to see and I wish more people saw it and understood the value of it.
@@zaccheus I know it seems so many people are more interested in the action than the education. I love the action just as much as the next guy but theres plenty of that youtube, not nearly enough testing in my opinion.
Never thought if that. Neither of the ropes really have good hand though. I'd imagine good knotability and ease of splicing are what make a good dock rope?
Also Dog Ropes 🐕;) Well , they should still work for more , just need to check the soul and mantle with eyes and fingers By the way - a wood is not a person , cause the harness and Body react dynamic as well ! Avoid to fallacy times take ropes in tension as much es possible Last week I let fall a 100 pound branch when I was hanging under a thick branch , it was my 4 m second safety rope , I had to use it cause it was exactly the way to the roof No big job for the Rope but the other was bound to the thicker broken branch and sometimes there is no other solution . It was best I could do trusting me and material
I appreciate your caution. But these forces are not that high to be honest. These ropes should all be able to take 5000 pounds easy. You're only loading them to about 3o percent for a fraction of a second at a time. As for the load cell those can usually take well over 10k pounds so it will have no problems at all. I'm especially sad to see the xstatic go. It's stiff nature would have been great to be repurposed as a pulling rope. When pulling a tree over for example the sta5ic rope is so much better because you don't have to fight the stretch of the rope. But better safe Than sorry. Great video I really liked it.
Thanks man. I think the load cell will be fine. I said that mostly as a joke. I think it's rated for 4,500lb on the read out and has a breaking strength of 36KN or something like that. Thats true, they should all take 5,000lb. 5,400lb is the MBS allowed for climbing systems. However, thats with no knots and no wear. There is also the matter of cycles to failure to consider. A 3000lb, load reduces the life of the rope substantially more than a 300lb load. I know some folks like static ropes for pulling, I sometimes like dynamic ropes because of their ability to store energy in the system, but it depends on the scenario. What I don't like is previously overloaded ropes that have a higher chance of failure. That's a risk I don't wanna take 😬
@Billster1955 I gotcha, I do that too occasionally. I think I use a CMI heavy duty sling of some kind. I don't think they would make too much of a difference primarily because they are so short. I dunno, if I get a chance and it makes a difference, maybe I'll make a video out if it.
You answered the question i was going to ask at the end of the video. What about any hardware after sustaining a fall like That would it be wise to retire them also?
Well I won't retire the loadcell.. I don't think that would be sensible 😅 I used some old screw Gaye carabiners that I don't use for anything other than accessory type stuff and the one steel biner we used broke the spring component in the locking collar, so I threw that away. Aluminium will fail after a certain amount of fatigue. I don't know if that translates into cycles to failure or not.
With all the testing you've done lately and the discussions it bring up.. Is there any way that you know of that you could measure the force put on a union when it's on a base anchor and then a canopy anchor? We all have been told canopy anchors only need to support the weight of the climber vs the base anchor having to support double our weight. Is there any way you can verify that in one of your videos? Any input would be greatly appreciated
Yeah, actually I did that in a video a couple weeks ago. It should be right around the 7 minute mark in this video: czcams.com/video/s2ocED9AgaM/video.html
We never measured, but we did keep it consistent by marking the drop point on the rope with tape. I have a other video where we did measure some falls into a rope. You can find it here: czcams.com/video/s2ocED9AgaM/video.html
I use a makita 36v, it works really good I think. We did a comparison with the Milwaukee drill if you want to check it out: czcams.com/video/LOp-iATox24/video.html
@@zaccheus It's a 11.7mm rope but hands like a 12mm rope. It has minimal stretch, runs well on a hitch and knots well. My Z.Z lives on it most of the time. I have 45m of Yale Imori as well but it's a little bit stretchy for my liking.
The log droppin' lab! Watching your video makes me think that the more we test and examine our gear the more we develop a close and knowledgable relationship with the equipment. Without some testing and experimentation we only have the marketing hype to rely on. Cool video man
Thanks! I think you're right on with those thoughts. I'm especially interested in testing used equipment. Many experts talk about cycles to failure and such but not about how to know when to retire stuff.
Nice experiment. Keep in mind there are 3 other factors effecting your results. The length of the rope makes a big difference as a longer rope has more room to stretch. The friction at the rigging point also plays a part as it determines how much of the portion of the rope between the GRCS and the rigging point contributes to the elasticity. And lastly, the rigidity of the rigging point will impact your results. As you commented, the tree swayed at the forces went up. So the tree itself absorbed some of the energy. So in the real world, consider those factors too. Rock climbers fully appreciate how having a longer segment of rope greatly reduces the forces.
Thanks for those thoughts! My primary goal was to compare the ropes and to keep the variables you mentioned as consistent as possible for each drop. All of the ropes we tested were anchored at the top of the tree, and we only used the GRCS to lift the log. Probably the biggest error was when we had to move the knot up on the rock climbing rope because it stretched so far that the piece hit the ground.
Great video! That weight scale may need to be recalibrated now! 😂
Haha! Hopefully I didn't hurt it. I think it's rated to measure up to 4,500lb or something
Fantastic
Awesome expensive test, I appreciate your time. It was perfect for me I got what I needed
Glad to hear it! It didn't cost too much in the end. Most of those were retired ropes that were ready to go for one reason or another.
I spend to much money at endors lol they are awesome!!!
Haha same! It's a problem, but it's better than spending money elsewhere 🤷♂️
These sort of videos are awesome 👌 keep it up man
Thanks man!
I'm using damaged rope in 5:1 mechanical advantage instead of throwing it away. (note: more static rope = better for pulley systems)
Aye, I try to stay away from using damaged rope for anything 😬😅. I would definitely agree that static rope in a 5:1 system would be the best. Really could even use some dyneema stuff if you wanted to go all the way 😅
I know it’s tuff to do when production is on the line but it would be interesting to test real life rigging and the forces that are put on rigging lines.
I think August Hunicke has some videos on that already. I could probably do that with the right job. Theoretically that load cell can handle more than the SWL on a 3/4 double braid rope.
@@zaccheus yeah I’ve seen them August has a lot of good content but for those who haven’t binge watched his channel😂 to see it could see it on your channel. I enjoy watching you and the explanation you give ! The trial and error that you show is good cause we all make mistakes and learn . Stay safe out there!
@@ericchristison9680 haha alright! I'll keep an eye out for a good job to check rigging forces on. Thanks for commenting about it on this video!
Just as i was thinking this last week after the original video. I was gonna try and make a test like this myself but you did it for me!
Aw man, I hope I didn't take an opportunity from you!
This honestly could have been done way better. If I were to do it again I would do a numer of things different to make the test more consistent and my fun to watch. Got ahead and take a stab at it. I'd love to see if you come up with similar results.
@@zaccheus you didnt take any opportunity away from me man! I love your videos always excited to watch! And i have a million ideas for testing between base anchors, canopy anchors, srt vs drt theres more than enough testing for all of us! Not to mention im still waiting on my scale so i have atleast a week regardless.
@Harold Ridgeway Haha, glad to hear it. Testing content doesn't seem to be super popular here on youtube, but it is interesting to see and I wish more people saw it and understood the value of it.
@@zaccheus I know it seems so many people are more interested in the action than the education. I love the action just as much as the next guy but theres plenty of that youtube, not nearly enough testing in my opinion.
@@HaroldRidgeway74 I can't agree more. You ought to check out the Nugreen store channel they do a lot of testing.
Ron Paul was in the adds for this video. Love Ron Paul. Shoulda been prez but he is before his time.
Nice vid. Endors logo is cool
Instead of tossing those ropes you can make a bunch of dock lines out of them and sell them. I would take those off your hands and do that.
Never thought if that. Neither of the ropes really have good hand though. I'd imagine good knotability and ease of splicing are what make a good dock rope?
Also Dog Ropes 🐕;)
Well , they should still work for more , just need to check the soul and mantle with eyes and fingers
By the way - a wood is not a person , cause the harness and Body react dynamic as well !
Avoid to fallacy times take ropes in tension as much es possible
Last week I let fall a 100 pound branch when I was hanging under a thick branch , it was my 4 m second safety rope , I had to use it cause it was exactly the way to the roof
No big job for the Rope but the other was bound to the thicker broken branch and sometimes there is no other solution . It was best I could do trusting me and material
@@zaccheus If you want to send them to me in Missouri I'll pay the shipping if your just tossing them?
@@stuby2014 I appreciate the offer,l to put them to use, but I can't afford the liability
@@zaccheus I understand completely. You can also use them for guide lines.
Very interesting Zach.
Thanks!
Cool video! Thanks for sharing
Thanks!
Super cool to see.
Thanks!
Man, the stretch on that rock climbing rope.
I know right! Even just hanging on it with body weight felt really weird. It's definitely different stuff.
Like the helmet..you look like the inspector and or oil rigger
Haha thanks, I do like a full brim hat whenever a chin strap and such inst required
I appreciate your caution. But these forces are not that high to be honest. These ropes should all be able to take 5000 pounds easy. You're only loading them to about 3o percent for a fraction of a second at a time. As for the load cell those can usually take well over 10k pounds so it will have no problems at all. I'm especially sad to see the xstatic go. It's stiff nature would have been great to be repurposed as a pulling rope. When pulling a tree over for example the sta5ic rope is so much better because you don't have to fight the stretch of the rope. But better safe Than sorry. Great video I really liked it.
Thanks man. I think the load cell will be fine. I said that mostly as a joke. I think it's rated for 4,500lb on the read out and has a breaking strength of 36KN or something like that.
Thats true, they should all take 5,000lb. 5,400lb is the MBS allowed for climbing systems. However, thats with no knots and no wear. There is also the matter of cycles to failure to consider. A 3000lb, load reduces the life of the rope substantially more than a 300lb load.
I know some folks like static ropes for pulling, I sometimes like dynamic ropes because of their ability to store energy in the system, but it depends on the scenario. What I don't like is previously overloaded ropes that have a higher chance of failure. That's a risk I don't wanna take 😬
I'd like to see a similar tests on various loop runner slings.
Ooo, I'm sure they would make some high numbers. Do you mean break tests or shock absorption?
@@zaccheusshock absorbing. I use Notch, CMI and GM Climbing loop runners slings to rig down limbs in conjuction with carabiner and rigging ropes.
@Billster1955 I gotcha, I do that too occasionally. I think I use a CMI heavy duty sling of some kind. I don't think they would make too much of a difference primarily because they are so short. I dunno, if I get a chance and it makes a difference, maybe I'll make a video out if it.
Way to put it all on the line.
Haha, I wanted to, but I also didn't eat to break stuff. We weren't really set up to break stuff in a safe way
You answered the question i was going to ask at the end of the video. What about any hardware after sustaining a fall like That would it be wise to retire them also?
Well I won't retire the loadcell.. I don't think that would be sensible 😅 I used some old screw Gaye carabiners that I don't use for anything other than accessory type stuff and the one steel biner we used broke the spring component in the locking collar, so I threw that away. Aluminium will fail after a certain amount of fatigue. I don't know if that translates into cycles to failure or not.
With all the testing you've done lately and the discussions it bring up..
Is there any way that you know of that you could measure the force put on a union when it's on a base anchor and then a canopy anchor?
We all have been told canopy anchors only need to support the weight of the climber vs the base anchor having to support double our weight.
Is there any way you can verify that in one of your videos? Any input would be greatly appreciated
Yeah, actually I did that in a video a couple weeks ago.
It should be right around the 7 minute mark in this video: czcams.com/video/s2ocED9AgaM/video.html
@@zaccheus you know..I thought so..right on..thanks
What was the free fall distance of the DrenaLINE and Xstatic?
We never measured, but we did keep it consistent by marking the drop point on the rope with tape. I have a other video where we did measure some falls into a rope. You can find it here: czcams.com/video/s2ocED9AgaM/video.html
Nice 😊 🤠👌👌🤙
Thanks 😊
@@zaccheus 🤠👌👌🤙
what model drill do you use with your grcs
I use a makita 36v, it works really good I think. We did a comparison with the Milwaukee drill if you want to check it out: czcams.com/video/LOp-iATox24/video.html
Static rope for SRT.
Absolutely
Try the dynamic rope. .and tag me boss
Haha that thay would be the worst thing ever to ascend on. I threw that rope away after that test.
I hope you didn’t use those ropes anymore after testing em like that… 😵😆
Absolutely not. I cut them up and threw them away 😅
Drenaline sucks for climbing even with mrs. I climbed on it for way too long.
I can't agree more. I might even go as far as saying it's the worst rope I've ever climbed on 😅
@@zaccheus Try Yale Blue Tongue, it's the balls!
@@TheToolnut what do you like about it?
@@zaccheus It's a 11.7mm rope but hands like a 12mm rope. It has minimal stretch, runs well on a hitch and knots well. My Z.Z lives on it most of the time. I have 45m of Yale Imori as well but it's a little bit stretchy for my liking.
@@TheToolnut mmm sounds very interesting. I'll have to yake a look at it sometime