Grote Jazz Guitar Make Over
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- čas přidán 23. 01. 2023
- Can a Grote Jazz Hollowbody Guitar be overhauled to sound better? How about adding a new set of tuners, a new P-90 pickup, new volume and tone potentiometers with an orange drop tone capacitor and a new rosewood saddle? In this video I do all of those modifications and record sound samples along the way. You decide which P-90 pickup you like best!
TIMESTAMPS
00:20 - Parts selected for the Make-Over
02:31 - Further inspection of modifications required
07:12 - Actual modifications made
08:12 - Notes on the Before/After sound tests
10:05 - Actual Sound Tests: Grote P90, Vanson P90, Epiphone P90
14:15 - My P90 pick-up choice
14:59 - Observations & Conclusions
16:02 - What to do if you want to do your own modifications
16:33 - BONUS CONTENT - A deeper dive into each P90 tone characteristics
LINKS
MAutoDynamicEQ VST: www.meldaproduction.com/MAuto...
FREE Spectrum Analyzer used in the sound tests: www.voxengo.com/product/span/
Vanson AlNiCo V P-90: www.ebay.com/itm/121072016370
P90 Designed by Epiphone: www.ebay.com/itm/255399568547
Indian Rosewood and NuBone bridge/saddle: amzn.to/3XETKPw
Orange drop tone cap: amzn.to/3iRLoW6
Bourns 250K Audio taper potentiometer: amzn.to/3H0QTty
Bourns 250K Volume (linear) taper potentiometer: amzn.to/3wiagcC
Wilkinson Gold Tulip Tuners: amzn.to/3XKH1e4
Tortoise Shell Pickguard: www.aliexpress.us/item/325680...
Generic Gold Trapeze: amzn.to/3XQpVLJ
My Preferred Jazz Guitar strings: amzn.to/3XrCL3B
My Preferred Electric Guitar strings: amzn.to/3WxTK2G
My Preferred Acoustic Guitar strings: amzn.to/3ZN5CRr
My preferred Nylon Guitar strings: amzn.to/3GYmOL5 - Jak na to + styl
Gosh, I've got to say that the stock P-90 sounded best to my ears...and would probably get the tones of the other pickups with just a few tweaks of the tone knob, IMHO.
100% agree. P-90’s are pretty easy to get right.
Well I agree with you. The Grote p-90s sound better to me. So I'd get new strings do a set up on it and that's it.
Happy with mine out of the box
All I did was lower the bridge a bit & put flats on it
I like the sound of the Grote P90 best. I did not notice much improvement from the stock guitar. Although that is a good thing. I feel like I could pull this guitar out of the box and play it for quite a long time before customizing it. I really like the thoroughness of your reviews.
I I bought this guitar recently. It was good but when I wanted to adjust the intonation, one of the screws had a problem. Then when I looked at the frets to set the action to the lowest, I noticed that there were several frets that were higher. So I leveled the freights. The trussrod had to be adjusted. Then I noticed that the pickup had a good clear sound, for playing jazz it was very good, but with overdrive the sound was not good because it was too low for that. Overall it's a good guitar especially for the price, but a demanding musician will have to spend some time to get the tuning optimal. Some negligible finishing defects exist, nothing insurmountable. So I had to change the bridge, put a shim under the pickup, and change the nut to have a reliable and efficient setup. The tuners are OK, although I think they will need to be changed later.
For a beginner or an undemanding amateur this is a very good guitar. For an experienced musician, you need to know how to tune your instrument, otherwise luthier fees can make the total cost daunting. It is still necessary to take into account that guitars of a higher price are not necessarily better and very often need to be optimized in the same way.
Overall it's a good investment for an archtop. The acoustic sound is weak, but it is a semi-hollow. You can't expect the same sound as an acoustic archtop.
I must add that the tone potentiometer acts at the end of rotation. This isn't really a problem, but more progressiveness would have been better. I will rectify this later. It is not eliminatory.
(I use a homemade Princeton Reverb 65 point to point board.)
Thanks for this. What I learned, don't by Epiphone P-90 pickups 😆This was a good comparison. Thanks for sharing! I didn't hear a tone comparison with the original bridge. For these Jazz Box's the bridge is a tone deal breaker. I thought the original P-90 sounded great. Nice and crisp, just what I look for in a P-90 and flat wound strings will need that extra high end. Pickups are important, but I've found that I'm able to overcome any issues with a little EQ and Gain finesse.
Great comparisons. Loved the graphs.
This is a fanstastic guitar. I got the natural color. Threw flatwounds on. Very slight work with Truss rod. Nut and frets were good. Intonation is close.....and adjustable TYG. It vibrates like a living thing...plugged in. Awesome range of tone from a single pick-up. It's so good I wish there was a cut-out version. I'd buy it. I also have a Grote 335 I bought several years ago. It was almost 100USD cheaper..but I'm still working on it LOL. It sounds good but frets are all over the place. Of all the Grotes..these by most accounts are the most ready to play.
An es-135 style would be killer. Even a single pickup model.
I'd rather have the brighter stock pickups, which could always be tone adjusted down.
Great video. Very informative. Thank you!
Nice! You tastefully showed it's a matter of taste. Tuning pegs, oil and an eq pedal/program could do ya while you save up for pots.
Great video for someone interested in learning how to modify this guitar even if it is their first project 😊
To my surprise, I love the original
I have the same one in red. Quite playable right out of the box. I applied 3 coats of mineral oil to the fretboard (very thirsty) and dressed the fret ends. I upgraded the tuners (Grover-style Gotoh) and removed the pickguard altogether. I also added a spacer to the P-90 which greatly improved "brightness". One of the things I liked best about this guitar is how loud it was without amplification. I deleted the soft wood (pine?) bridge and replaced it with a rosewood one and that greatly improved loudness and sustain - probably the single biggest improvement of all. This is a LOT of guitar for under $200!
Totally agree with your assessment. It is a great guitar for under $200.
@@hikefishmakemusic 😮IV
You definitely made some good improvements. I was surprised by the quality of the stock pickup. This video has me thinking about how I would mod the guitar. Probably do what you did with the pots. Maybe keep the stock pickup? Swap the tuners for a klusson style with a butterbean tuner. Then swap the saddle for either a bone or wood saddle. I might take the pickguard off completely or swap to the tortoise shell like you did. Lastly, given my experience with that style of jack, I would for sure mount a plate there to add stability and protect it. Had a similar guitar that someone ripped the jack out of when I let them borrow it.
Great video. Thanks. I know what I’m going to do with my Grote Jazz now.
Sound better stock, nicely made video, thanks!
I have this model and I have to say..they sound good just as they are...the tuners yes that could make a significant difference though if you pull out the slack and tune up into pitch they hold ( with good strings)..the beauty of these single pick up guitars is the simple realization of how to manipulate different sounds by where you pick or pluck or palm mute or the whole 9 yards...I could get those tones out of the grote pickup...I think the top end disappeared noticably with the bridge change...I also am not big on model amps and tone comparison...now is it $1000 guitar sound ...no but it is a good sound,they are nice to practice on leave out and take to boys night out..and they do hold their own surprisingly well,..it is what it is and I find it in my hands a lot
Well said. I play mine frequently, thru a '57 Fender Deluxe 5E3 circuit, no pedals, just me, the guitar and the amp. Lovely, just lovely.
@@hikefishmakemusic Fender amps are fantastic for that! I have a Deville 4x10 I got dirt cheap 10 years (300 bucks CAD). I just use the clean channel and some verb, great sound. For blues just kick in the Tube Screamer and away you go.
Grote makes surprisingly good guitars
for beginners or for modifying 👍
have same guitar..dead fret at 8th high E...raised the bridge 2 turns..Voila...perfect...guitar is a keeper...ill do the tuners one day...ty for video...
Great tutorial thanks. A lesson on how you swap pickups would be nice.
Thank you. All i did to mine was order a spacer for the pickup. As far as bang for the Buck, i think this model is tops. I have over 20 guitars and find myself reaching for this one most times. Good acoustic volume to practice and not have to worry about a divorce lawyer. Great job!
Great video, and very well done (thumbs up & I have subscribed) !!! Personally, as a really old guy, I like the sound of the older guitarists, like Oscar Moore (who backed Nat King Cole & Peggy Lee), Herb Ellis, Johnny Smith, Howard Roberts etc., and had been trying to find a way to duplicate that sound. Along the way, I bought the same Grote in your video (except color) because it was so cheap, and according to some reviewers, had a lot of promise. I achieved that sound goal by replacing the stock strings (.09 round wounds? Who knows?) with a set of D"Addsrio .10 flat wounds, and for the sake of tuning ease, a set of 18:1 lockers. The stock P90 sound with the flat wounds is about as close to that old, woody sound as I've yet to achieve, except for my Harley Benton Manhatten Standard (on which I installed D's .11 flat wounds to replace the D's .10 half rounds that came with the guitar) which might sound a hair closer. The sound you achieved with the stock P90, with the other mods, is very close. also. The other two pickups sound a little too bass heavy for the type of old school Jazz sound a few of us old timers prefer, but that's a moot point, when you consider the tone that most of the contemporary are producing. Besides, most of us old guys are living in the past anyway. P.S. I forgot to mention, that surprisingly, I'm getting that "Old School" sound out of one of those $234 Monoprice 15 Watt tube amps (go figure!).
I have this guitar, with 5 others ( Ibanez AF75, Epiphone J200...), and it's my favorite for jazz. I had just to raise the microphone by 5 mm.
I have this guitar and like the stock p90 on your test. I am looking to try a TV jones soon.
The stock one sounds a bit hotter and certainly more highs in them. Personally I like the Epis for that warm jazzy tone.
Good to watch this as I just bought the Grote GRS-001 model. Will be upgrading some Grover tuners and a Bartolini PBF-55 jazz humbucker. I'll also sand the back of the neck as I've never liked the clear coat finish. And if I don't like the neck at all, I'll put a different neck all together with some nice inlays and better playability. The point is, it's better to get a decent, affordable guitar with upgrades than spending thousands of dollars just because it's a Gibson or PRS.
It's a simple sound box, so mods can be easy on this guitar, but swapping out a fix-set neck may be more trouble than it's worth on this model. But, if you do it, good luck! I'd like to know how it goes.
I like the stock pickup. I have the 335 version of this and have done a lot of upgrades to it. I did switch yhe humbuckers to vintage Wilkinsons. I'm thinking about getting one of these. I love affordable guitars. Was curious what it sounds like unplugged.
Get US handwounds, Bootstrap, Tone Hatch and Gatekeepers are on the list, all affordable. Epi doesnt need any exposure, nor the Amazonian.
I have the same axe on the way. I am interested in replacing the tone pot and bridge.
liked the original sound!
(disclaimer; I'm a big Telecaster fan :) )
Did you ever raise the height of your replacement pickup, and if so, how much did it affect the sound? As others have mentioned, a technical details video on how to replace the pots and pickup (including the copper shielding you said you use in a comment--reply) would be appreciated by many. Also, thanks for doing this video - well done.
You have to be cautious in raising p90s too close to the strings. The sound will get harshly loud and lose clear definition. It's ultimately a taste thing. From experience, I tend to keep p90s on the more moderate side of things, not too close.
I was curious how you went about changing the pick up out. I would like to see how it’s done.
Hi! I didn't understand if you used 250 or 500 potentiometers in this modification.
In the diagram they are 500k with 0.022 capacitor,
in the links indicate potentiometers from 250k
Thanks for the reply.
how is the neck profile? More D shape (flat) or C fat super rounded?
I've done a spacer for the P90, it sounds more intense, perfect. Where have you found this nice pickguard?
tortoise shell pickguard: www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804020917536.html
Thanks!
Feel players don't realize how much the tone and volume pots and capacitance have on tone and articulation. But after this the stock pickup didn't sound bad. The Epi was quite muddy.
thanks for the video!! Where did you get the new pickguard?
Pick guard: Aliexpress | xinyue Customize guitar parts For Gibson es 125t guitar Pickguard, 4Ply Brown tortoise
a.aliexpress.com/_mt2jiAm
@@hikefishmakemusic thanks!!
stock
Hello again! I am having some light buzzing when playing the first two frets of the upper E and A strings. How would you fix this? Thanks a lot!
If your actuon is at the preferrd height, then you most likely have a high fret or two. Isolate the frets that are buzzing and use a flat edge to gently press them in further. If that doesn't work, then YT how to level frets and follow those instructions. You won't need to level much.
@@hikefishmakemusic thanks a lot again! Great to connect with you!
Sounds like you need to level your frets. That's why they buzz, quick fret job, can you blame them for less that $200
I've been considering one of these, but something I've noticed is a lack of either a gig bag or case being made available for the Jazz Guitar style (neither Grote nor Redid labels seem to show them anywhere). If you have found a suitable bag or hard case, could you share what make and model you use (or modified for use)? Thank you so much, and thank you for your videos ~
Acoustic gig bag fits it.
Mine fits perfectly in a case made for an Epiphone casino
Did u notice any changes in the tone and /or playability when u swapped out the bridge? Steve P
Yes, most definitely. An all walnut bridge made it more midrange focused and not so bright. A rosewood bridge with a bone insert was the most balanced and my preference.
Could you please explain how to fix a loose volume knob on this guitar? It would be of great help! Thanks a lot!
Pull the plastic knob straight up and off, then tighten the thin nut to firm but not too tight for fear of cracking the guitar finish. Rotate the stem completely to the right and press on the plastic knob so that "10" faces you as you play. Done.
@@hikefishmakemusic Thank you so much! Appreciate it a lot!
If possible, could you now explain how to change the pickup? Is it a complex process?
@rodrigomarino9813 it's more involved than a few simple sentences in a reply. I strongly suggest searching CZcams for pickup replacements. There are plenty of great tutorials on YT that can help you out. I can tell you that this guitar has the simplest pup replacement process, so it's a great project guitar to practice on.
@@hikefishmakemusic I will! Thanks a lot for the advice!
I used 300k pots and .033 caps with p-90s.
I'm sure that can make it sound sweet, too.
Is it just me or does the stock pickup sound the best?
It's not just you. The Grote sounded great.
Me too like the stock, it's really clear and vintagey
L6S on the wall?
Yes, had it since 1982. It's a 1973.
Why is there no hum on these single coil pick ups? Did you process the samples to remove the hum?
I didn't use any post-processing. Since it is a single P90, you'll experience less hum than if it were two. Plus, P90s in general have less hum than strat-like single coils but not as quiet as good 'ol humbuckers. When I swapped out the electronics, I used cloth wire point-to-point and lined the pick-up cavity with copper foil tape to provide additional shielding. I line all the pickup cavities in my guitars with copper foil, no matter what the pickup. It definitely makes a guitar noticeably quieter, particularly for single-coils and P90s.
I have this guitar, unfortunately (new) the volume control is stuck on one setting. The vendor has agreed to collect and fix, but that means a chance of scratching, and I don't want a refund, so I'll have a go myself.
In your review I much prefer the stock pickup, which has brightness and character. So an interesting, valuable review, and I fully agree with your conclusions.
Very unfortunately it looks like you can't buy this guitar anymore, at least in the UK. So maybe the maker could no longer do it at the price, or too niche (long live us niche guys!). I much prefer it to the (slightly more expensive) Harley Benton (natural satin finish) equivalent, which appears to the the only comparable alternative on the market.
Firstly, thanks for watching my video. It is super easy to mod this guitar since it has only one pup, vol and tone control. Wiring is as simple as it gets. Swapping out the volume pot should be a piece of cake for you. Keeping the original pup is a great option, but for some jazz sound profiles, it's a tad bright. I kept the OEM p90 and will probably use it on another project someday. The Vanson p90 suits my playing style and tone chasing desires better. Don't forget to consider swapping out the tone cap while you are in there. Best of luck on the mods. I love playing my Grote Jazz box and just recorded a song with it for an upcoming personal album.
@@hikefishmakemusic Thanks v much, very helpful info, I appreciate it. 'Tone chasing desires', love it, you've summed up why we play. Your comment on tone woods probably applies to most instruments from the East, though of course the quality is increasingly good. And considering the quality of this instrument, I think I'll get the 335 before it too vanishes, either red or natural, both nice. Keep reviewing!
Is it weird that I prefer the epiphone pickup?
Certainly a good choice, I wish I could have all of them in the guitar at once. They all have their place in making music!
lol YES! 😀 That said, I actually prefer the stock pickup for it's brightness.. Sven, great video and good comparison! Thank you!
Yes, this sounds strange to me, the original pickup is much clearer to my ears.
Cost of the upgrades?
just buy a decent guitar to start with lol
It is a decent guitar. I love mine.@@Phyoomz
@@Oxmyx01 idk, I've bought these cheaper guitars in the past, I end up putting a bunch of upgrades into them and they end up costing as much as the officcial budget version of the real thing. 😢 That said, I'm saving up for an Ibanez
My dear friend, I get it and completely agree. In my case, I purchased the Grote for $130 USD. I swapped the tuners for Grovers and the bridge to accommodate flatwounds. For under $200 I have a solid, fun player. The Grote has great bonesif you like to tinker. If not, it works well enough out of the box. All the best to you. @@Phyoomz
"Why would they ship Canadian wood to Korea?" Dude! Canada ships half their wood to Asia. Do you know how many lumber companies in Canada are actually Japanese-owned?
Nope, don't know the answer to your question. Why don't you share your knowledge with others and answer it?
Hmmm.. in the a/b it sounds like the vanson tone is turned 3/4 the way down. Very dead, not real tone to speak of. I love the Grote P90s everywhere. The Vanson tone should have been higher everywhere... it sounded muffled.
I recorded the pick ups unedited so the listener can truly evaluate each different P90 volume, tone and responsiveness to different playing styles. So if you hear the Vansons as being "dead" and you hear the Grote P90 as best to your ears, then you should choose to keep the Grote P90 in your guitar!
SOUND FULLER AND WAY MORE SUSTAIN
Is it possible these are Canadian Godin rejects that got recycled out of Korea?
That's an interesting thought. Conspiracy theory material!
Wouldn't that be something.
BELIEVE ME WHEN YOU MOD A GUITAR IT WILL BE DIFF.AND BETTER I DO IT TO ALL MY GUITARS 8 OF THEM
Redid makes a 189 dollar version that requires no setup
Set-up is very subjective to each individual player. I've never met a guitar that didn't need anything done to it.
all guitars require some setup
What is the point of this video? I mean is it for a technicians or something? a capacitor what it is it ?
I share the point in the first 15 seconds of the video.
Really? I buy a new Epiphone!
Good for you!
Just a horrible sounding name
It should be pronounced 'grow-tee'.