Watersnake 24V Brushless trolling motor, 95lb.
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- čas přidán 4. 02. 2022
- Speed and power tests on a 13ft plywood dingy.
Watersnake Advance BLDC electric motor, 95lb thrust.
Motor specs -
Kv: 77
Max rpm at 24V: 1850.
Prop: 10" x 4.6", three blade.
Batteries: 2x 13V, 22Ah LiFePo4 batteries in series.
All speeds appearing in captions are average speeds based on runs in multiple directions to counter the effect of wind and tide.
The motor was not tested up to its maximum power setting. The motor documentation indicates maximum allowable current of 60A but recommends a 50A fuse. The maximum current during this test was 32A at 22.8V. - Věda a technologie
I had a 3 meter aluminium boat with a little 5hp Yamaha on it, would have been lucky to have the same speed as this level 1 speed, I think cavitation was a big problem.
Great vid series, please do now put a model aircraft prop on her!
Jes shaft airfoil to not get air down the shaft to air on propeller blade leading edge to prevent ventilation cavitation.
And trim out the motor to pick up bow to start create more lift on plan and less drag of hull.
I'd love to see what happens when you put the watersnake on your long kayak.
Seems like a fairing on the shaft and cone on the end of the prop would contribute quite a bit to efficiency.
Попробуй поставить антикавитационную пластину над винтом, скорость должна увеличиться.
Try placing an anti-cavitation plate over the propeller, the speed should increase.
Hi William, great tests and results. I have achieved very similar results with my watersnake 70lb 12v trolling motor on my flint rowing skiff that I built from plans by Ross Lillistone. I tested the performance on a windless lake with my 50kg son on the front seat and me on the tiller. The 15 foot skiff weighs 45kg and 75ah AGM battery 15.5kg. My results were 2mph 30 watts, 3mph 72watts, 4mph 144watts, 4.5mph 180watts, 5mph 252watts and my top speed is 5.6mph at 540 watts. The watersnake motors are readily available in Australia but not much data on their performance I have discovered that the same motor as mine is marketed in Europe as a Rhino BLX 70 and also more performance data and youtube videos, the watersnake 90 might be marketed as Rhino there also, I hope that's a help. I have found your solar kayak videos fascinating and was delighted to find this new one.
A couple of things I forgot to mention the Watersnake motor is called Advance sws brushless 70lb. My weight 74kg. Also when I converted amps to watts I multiplied by 12 and forgot the fully charged AGM battery was probably at 12.8 or 13 volts when I did the test so with that correction my calculated watts will increase.
Thanks Greg, I am glad you liked it. And thanks for your test results on the Flint. It looks like an ideal hull for these motors. I bought the Fleet plans some time ago but then went on to design my own low power planing hull. I got as far as building a 4ft scale model before I got distracted by other stuff.
I finally got more battery capacity and thicker wiring so now I am ready to test the Watersnake to full power.
It is a coincidence that you bought the fleet plans ! I think that you might be able to get the fleet or your own design to plane with the 95lb thrust watersnake with the right propeller. I also tried the watersnake 70 on a mirror dinghy and it achieved a top speed of 8kph at 45 amps so the waterline length made a difference. I looked online for the Rhino equivalent to your motor and they only have a 110lb thrust 24v and I wonder if they have just rebadged the Watersnake 95lb 24v . I will be looking forward to your next experiment/test with the thicker gauge wire. I learnt from experience to keep an eye on the battery voltage on top of the motor. I ran out of amps a long way from the boat ramp a week ago , my son and I had gone 17klm we were on our way back but still had about 9 klm to go , I had to get a tow from the coastguard .I had been going fast without due care. Lesson learnt .
your tests are very educational, especially since you also give specific technical data, I'm curious about the brushless motor, have you tried to fair the vertical tube? Have you tried model aircraft propellers on a brushless motor?
Thanks, I am glad you found it useful. I have not tested other props yet but I definitely plan on doing it eventually. I still need to test an anti-ventilation plate and fairing for the tube.
Thanks for doing all these tests its going to help me with my Hobie compass. Its amazing that once you got to 5 mph it was almost all energy losses from there on. Are there any tricks you can do to lift stern out of the water to kill the drag or do you have to foil to go to the next level?
Small downward angled tabs along the lower edge of the transom might help but ultimately the hull itself should be of a different shape. The hull bottom should be flatter, both lengthwise (less rocker) as well as laterally (less deadrise). The objective is to efficiently generate the hydrodynamic lift required to let the boat plane. A sharp bow would also help at semi-displacement speeds.
@@williamfraser How would a 'cathedral hull' fair? (as opposed to your dinghy)
@@joatmofa0405 if it is the same length then it will require more power at the slower displacement speeds due to deep transom and high surface area. It might have a slight advantage at speeds closer to hull speed due to a higher prismatic coefficient but that will also depend on how deep the transom is submerged. If the motor has enough power to push it into the semi-displacement speed or faster then it will most likely perform better than my dinghy.
Hello william, thanks for providing such a nice data to compare efficiency on those different setups. I also watched your other comparison with the minn kota and modelers propeller(I'm a modelist btw), I've concluded that the minn kota test that should be 12v system, vs this one on 24v, in general having the 12v system with a nice prop for efficiency, is a better bung for the buck them the stock setup for 24v, am I right?
It depends on what your priorities are. Both systems have pro's and cons. The 24V motor has much more power so it can push larger boats and/or achieve greater top speed. Current is lower at a specific power so thinner power cables can be used. It is much more efficient at lower speed than the Minn kota (see range vs speed graph right at the end). The Minn kota low speed efficiency can however be improved by upgrading to a pwm speed control but that would have to be taken into account cost wise. The primary appeal of the brushed motor is the incredibly low noise level.
My minn kota 40lbs max has already integrated pwm controller, my boat is a tobin sport canyon pro 3places from costco, I'm looking to improve the speed, got a ljthium battery and will try the propeller model plane mod. By knowing those info, do you know if its worth to have a 24 system? Thanks. If you hadn't looked into it, its not totally related but you might like it, czcams.com/video/HFhsh4V8SZA/video.html
Awesome videos! I've got a inflatable boat and looking to change to an airplane prop. You're pretty scientific with you reasoning. I was wondering do you know why the motor shaft is better ran at the depth you have it versus all the way down? What are pros and cons of the propeller run at different depths? Thanks!
A round shaft like this one contributes to drag, especially the portion between the top of the prop and the water surface. A longer submerged shaft will further increase drag. Other than that I have not examined the effect on depth vs efficiency.
With more powerful outboards having the prop too deep will flex the transom (think of it like a lever) and cause handling issues. Most trolling motors aren’t powerful enough to make a difference with that. I run my trolling motor just deep enough to avoid prop ventilation.
Hi, following Your channel very close. Where did You get this motor ? Max thrust brushless on Watersnake web site is 70lb. Unfortunately there are no efficiency charts. Biggest disadvantage I see for application is the prop design. Will You be doing some test with other props.
Currently my favorite motor is the Newport Vessel NK180 24V brushless. Really great pack deal
I also struggled to get info on this motor. It might be a discontinued model. I bought this from a general "great daily deals" online outlet. I hope to test different props at a later stage.
@@williamfraser Just copied that performance data of the Newport Nk180S for Your info. Wonder how that motor would perform with Your conditions. At least they use a decent standard prop design. They also give a 2 year warranty. So I asume they use their motor with more than sufficient safety margin and I am sure more LB thrust with an even better prop design could be reached. Max 48% efficiency does seem a low target to me...... ???
Did You come to final design conclusions in regards to heat and cooling solar panels ?
Rated Input Power(static) 600W/25A
Battery Input voltage
• 24V-Deep cycle marine battery
• 24V-LFP Lithium battery
• 25.9V-Lithium cobalt oxide battery
Max. Overall Efficiency 48%
Max. Propeller Rotational Speed 1800 rpm
Propeller Diameter 5.9 in. (15 cm)
THROTTLE SPEED(MPH/KM/H* CURRENT A (Amps) POWER W (Watts)
20% 2/3,2 1,4 34
40% 3,4/5,4 4,5 108
60% 4,2/6,7 8,7 209
80% 4,9/7,9 14 336
100% 5,4/8,7 20 480
* Depends on type of kayak, load and weight and weather conditions
I looked up three real world tests of the nk180 and I am not impressed. All three tests were performed on typical 12.5ft plastic fishing kayaks. The Watersnake matched or outperformed it al all power settings despite the dinghy's much wider beam and weighing twice as much.
I am a bit baffled by the Newport's poor efficiency. It would be easy to blame the small diameter prop as the culprit but a prop of that size is actually ideal for low speed, low power efficiency. The blade pitch might be too low or the motor's torque vs efficiency characteristics is poorly matched to the prop and thrust requirements. It is still a nicely integrated system for a kayak though and much lighter than the Watersnake's 24lb bulk.
Hey, it's me again. So, when are we getting a new video!? I'm beyond ready for some new content! 😜
Even CZcams is sending me ultimatums so I guess I have to get on it!
This would be sick on my canoe. My 55lb brushed motor really pushes it along... Couldnt imagine going brushless. But I'd need a second heavy battery so thats the trade... Its already pushing my luck with a friend up front we take in water if it gets choppy. Also i value a very slow speed for slow trolling... Is there a way to dial that speed back more with a rheostat? With my tactics the slower the troll the better. I often have to pulse the motor on and off to get that ultra slow troll i need to get these european made micro crankbaits to swim just right. Finicky walleyes destroy them if you basically hover one over where they like to stack up. Theyre far too light to cast so i have to troll them. But that is how i outfish the pros while theyre out filming their TV tournaments and i just troll circles around them in my crappy little canoe. When the people at the dock tell me the fishing was slow, they are always bewildered when they see me cleaning my limited out cooler LOL.
I could only find a 70lbs thrust model on their website. Has the 95lb model been discontinued? Or is this the 12v model they sell run at 24v?
It is quite possible that this model has been discontinued. Information on it is scarce but I doubt that it uses the same motor as the 70lb model.
I am a little confused. Even though you used the same test boat for all tests, wouldn't the dynamic change of drag of the boat at different speeds be significant?
Absolutely. That is why the increase in speed at higher power settings is not linear. I pretty much maxed out the practical usable displacement speed from this hull. To go faster it would need to start transitioning to planing. Since this hull shape is not efficient at planing the power required would be too much.
Hi there! I saw one of your videos where you told us how to design a plane propeller to undeerwater use. I have a big project and need some help to design a propeller for a boat. It would be awesome if we coud figure out something.
Do you have clear design objectives and boat thrust requirements?
What would you say was the total weight of boat, batteries, body weight, motor, etc? Do you think this motor could go over 6mph with an efficient hull?
190kg, give or take. I have not tested the motor at full power (1.2kW) so it might even get to 6mph on this hull. On longer and lighter hull it should easily get 6mph.
@@williamfraser I'm designing a lightweight catamaran that should have relatively low resistance relative to a dinghy at the higher speeds you tested. Do you think this motor/prop is capable of 7mph in such a circumstance or would it be speed limited by rpm/pitch?
@@dustman96 Pitch is around 5in and max rpm is around 2000. Rpm at peak efficiency should be 1600-1700. So there is a good chance that you will run out of pitch right around 7mph.
@@williamfraser Thanks for the feedback. If I can get this project off the ground I'll give an update and hopefully do some thorough testing and share the results. Realistically months away though. Thank you for your rigorous testing by the way, it was quite useful.
Did you try to attach a hydrofoil to the shaft..any improvement?
No not yet. I sold the boat so testing is on hold until I can find or build a more suitable hull. I have started designing a low power, semi-displacement hull. A 1/4 scale model is slowly taking shape.
How Quickly would running a 12V 55lbs Minnesota Maxxum be ruined if on were to attempt to run 24 volts through it? The RPM would increase and theoretically decrease amp draw Correct? So Is the 55lbs thrust adequate torque rating to digest the additional voltage? All thoughts welcomed. Thank you for your excellent videos. Cheers
Amp draw is determined by the load torque, and prop torque goes up rapidly with increasing rpm. It would be very risky.
@@williamfraser fair enough. What do you suppose would fail first?
@@williamfraser if the motor were run 24v RPM were kept low ie setting 1-3 max would that equate possibly to level 5 on 12V?
Melting winding insulation if I had to guess
You might risk frying the power electronics. Better check if someone else has had success trying it.
Past about 300 W you don't get much for the extra energy used.
what model of boat is that?
Miracle sailing dinghy.
What IS The minium wattage this pulls
50
Excellent! That was better than I had hoped for! 2.9mph at just 75w with the stock prop and no fairings! That's a beautiful place to start. Can't wait to see how it does with some tweaks!
Soon, I'll be testing a Haswing Protruar 1.0 that'll hopefully be a decent upgrade from my modified MK30. Motor specs have been impossible to find on it as well.
Something I would love to figure out is a way to monitor prop RPM. I wonder if a photo eye would still work under water?
Rpm drops linearly with increasing current at a given voltage. So if you know the rpm under no load and at least one other test load you can derive a relationship by which to monitor rpm indirectly through current readings. Each speed setting would change the effective motor voltage would therefore need its own unique Amp-rpm equation.
Ive got the haswimg 3.0 and its awesome.
@@adamtedder1012 I'm guessing yours is the 24v Protruar? I see they have a 12v 3.0 out now.
I've ran the Protruar 1.0 this summer and it's been great! With airplane props, it's a good bump in speed and efficiency over my modified MK30.
@@mindovermotor yes sir that is correct its the 24v. I actually have 2 of them now just to keep one stored in tye boat as a backup because I go so far out with my boat. Ive got a video on here of my setup. Its more just me by a fire camping but my boat is the first half and the last minute or so if you want to check it out and jump to the relevent parts.
czcams.com/video/VJp1AmqjUSI/video.html
Great show. What kind of sailboat were you using? Many thanks. Jeff Baran 🇺🇸
A Miracle, designed by Jack Holt as a "larger Mirror".