Figure Skating Blades: What Are They Made Of? Blades Part 2
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Have you ever wondered what figure skating blades are made of and what that means for you and your skating? What about the profiles and models? There's been tremendous progress and innovation by blade manufacturers. As a coach, my understanding of the sport, coupled with my knowledge of the blade, allows me to help my skaters make sound choices for their equipment to maximize their skating potential. I'm going to help get you started and understand the blade materials so that you can better understand what blade type and model may be best for you?
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Hi Aimee, thanks for such a scientific intro of the blades! So my personal and adult friends' experiences show that for adult skaters, even without being able to do an single Axel, would benefit a lot from getting the elite-level blades. 😁 I invested the Pattern 99 directly from the Aspire XP, with skipping the Coronation Ace that many people recommended as perfect intermediate blades. I found the change was enormous, in a positive way! I lost my spins a little bit because of the flatter profile, but got them back very soon. Indeed, since the Aspire XP has a 8' rocker, the Pattern 99 actually succeeds even better!
This may not be true for growing teen skaters, but the issue of over-blading is so minimal for adult skaters!
This is exactly why it is so critical to discuss your equipment with your coach and professional skate tech! Adults are unique in that they are not growing and will hold on to their equipment longer. That said, it's still important not to overboot in anticipation of future skills.
@ OMG that's exactly what I wanted to say - thanks Aimee!! Overbooting has undoubtedly more problems: feet pain, ankle pain, waste of the stiffness, and much more!
@@charlesliu8299 We think alike!
Great Channel Aimée. Former competitive skater (late 1960’s through mid 1970’s.) thinking of getting a pair and doing it again after close to 50 years 😁🤣
Go for it!
Really like your videos, although i must say, trusting your skate tech is not the best option most of the time. Many of them (if not 90%) would suggest a wrong edea size for you ( EVEN AUTHORIZED DEALERS) which is mind boggling. Edea also said that wrong size suggestions is a world-wide problem XD. I got my first skates off of local ebay and trusted edea measurement (+0.5 for adults). It was a great skate and served me well through all single jumps. But when i came to MULTIPLE professional skate shops to get ice flys, they suggested me a 255 size, when my foot is 240 mm long under pressure. And with new 2023 lust edea suggests taking the skates mm to mm (so 240 instead of 245 for a 240mm foot). And the worst part is that you cant even trust your coach. They may be great at teaching but I saw multiple times how great coaches put little children learning doubles and triples in a skate that has 2cm of room in it AND suggesting the wrong hollow(Hello Alexey Mishin and his flat 18 mm hollows for doubles).
At this point you can only trust yourself and when you find a great sketch tech - babysit them, praise them and never let go.
I'm sorry that has been your experience! However, I have not found that to be the case with recommended professionals. Part of the issue (at least here in the US) is that Edea does not REQUIRE dealers to be trained - it's optional but recommended. As far as not being able to trust your coach, IF your coach is PSA-Rated, they are well trained, qualified, and trustworthy. It sounds as if you may be working with the wrong people, unfortunately. There are plenty of great professional techs and coaches out there - seek them out!
I've been watching all of your videos trying to figure out if switching from coronation ace lites to matrix legacy is a good idea! I've been through quite a few boots, (jackson debuts were okay, edea ice flys were not for me, but my risport royal primes are my favorite so far) but I've always had the same blades. I'm working on axel and starting doubles, getting to more difficult spin combos, and working on intermediate MIF. My skate tech recommended Matrix Legacy and I was wondering what you thought of them, if the transition will be easy, or if they're a good intermediate blade. Thank you Coach Aimee!
Jackson doesn’t provide complete information on their blades so I have no idea what the spin rocker is. That said the primary rocker is 8’, while coronation ace is 7’. There will be a learning curve for you. Did you ask your tech why they suggested the change to Jackson blades from John Wilson ?
@ I think it was mostly a combination of him showing me what they had as far as intermediate level blades, and I thought they looked pretty cool. but that's not really what matters at the end of the day. I ordered them but it's not too late to change my mind. I just don't want it to be a lateral move or a downgrade from what I've had! I'm hoping to get something a little more supportive that will grow with me. I'm pretty hard on my skates so I wanted something a little higher quality, but from my research the matrix legacy are pretty comparable to the coro ace lites. I'm confusing myself at this point!
@ashietoashes I wouldn’t call them comparable as the primary rocker is completely different. The new blade will be flatter and will feel different due to the difference in rocker and material used.
Hi Aimée!
I’ve watched your video but I’m still not sure on what blade to buy. This weekend I’m going to get new skates (Edea overtures which were recommended by my coach) and I’m pretty sure they won’t have blades attached. So I’m not too sure what blades to buy. Im basically a beginner I started a few weeks ago. Any recommendations?
(Your video is very amazing, I’m not saying I didn’t learn anything but I’m not the best at learning)
Thank you Aimée!
Correct, Edea Overture boots are sold separately from the blade. I usually suggest the John Wilson Coronation Ace or MK Professional to my beginning skaters. Lately, I'm been leaning toward MK Professional more. At first, it was due to it being more available with supply chain issues, but I've found my skaters have more immediate success with it. There are lots of blades on the market that are based on these two profiles and can be less expensive. However, I prefer going with John Wilson or MK because, IMHO JW and MK blades tend to glide smoother, providing a surer edge than Jackson, Eclipse, or other brands of blades. That said, if availability is an issue (due to back order), you may have to go with what is available. Ask your coach what they prefer to see you in. Just like your boots, coaches like to provide guidance to their skaters about blade choices.
@ Thank you! I knew I could rely on you ❤️
@@Islaonice You're welcome. But definitely discuss it with your coach too!
@ I ended up getting the Edea overtures with the MK professional blades yesterday and today I skated in them. But after 10 minutes of skating the ball of my foot was aching a lot. Do you know why cans how to fix it?
Anytime you change your equipment, there is going to be an adjustment period. Make sure you are lacing your skates properly - the Edea way! I have a video on that here: czcams.com/video/t4EuFbwl6IU/video.html If you are properly lacing and still have discomfort after the first few times skating, you should talk to your professional tech about your specific issues. They may suggest a specialty insole or custom shaping, which is quite common. Edea's are designed to be custom shaped.
Hi Coach Aimee, thank you very much for the video. I am planning to buy EDEA Chorus, but I do not know if I should buy the Coronation Ace LITE or the Coronation Ace. I do not have of people to ask about the two blades from where I am from, so I would like to ask you and your circle of ice skating friends on why I should buy Ace LITE. I already read that it is lighter and thinner, so I am asking for personal experiences of using Ace LITE. Thank you very much.
Several of my skaters have the LITE version of the Coronation Ace. However, I have never tried it myself because it is best for smaller, more petite skaters - especially if you are jumping! You should ask your coach and the person that fitted you for your boots and will be doing the mounting.
We just changed my granddaughter to Edea Chorus with Paramount C A blade. What is your opinion on Paramount? We wanted to try something different and new.
I haven’t not skated on Paramount blades. The Paramount CA is based on the John Wilson Coronation Ace. My preference is for John Wilson blades.
Hi there Aimee, subscriber here! Wanted to say that thanks so much to you, I discovered and have access to Greg at Polar Skate shop being that I am in Essex County, NJ 🙂 I have a question re blades. I'm a middle-aged guy and due to knee/joint issues from a medical condition, I rely and love skating as a recreational activity and more importantly, as physical therapy for strengthening and its overall health benefits. I am a competent skater but with my limiting physical conditions (have vertigo spells too, ugh! LOL), my kind of skating certainly does not involve jumps and spins. At my level of skating, would I be able to get away using dance blades for my recreational skating? I suppose I like the thinner profile for easier edges/turns but I am not sure if the shorter toe pick and tail can be disadvantages. Or are these all irrelevant and I could still enjoy recreational skating with dance blades?
You could use dance blades for recreational skating. However, freestyle blades offer more stability due to the longer length. While dance blades are often more narrow than freestyle blades, it varies from model to model so if that is what you're after be sure to check the specifications! You could also look into synchro blades which are a hybrid between dance and freestyle blades - not as short as dance blades. Depending on your body composition, John Wilson Coronation Ace Lite or MC Professional Lite could also be good options for you as they are thinner. However, Lite blades are not the best choice for heavier skaters. Greg has many blades in his shop and he can help you chose!
@ Aww thanks so much for your valuable advice! Yes, I'll definitely look into blade options including dance and synchro blades. However, as it already appears, I ought to stick to freestyle blades. Weight wise, I usually hover around 160-165 lbs so considered lighter than the average male at my 5'10" height. Apart from your guidance, I will definitely have a chat with Greg!
@artdelac you’re welcome!
My daughter has received advice to change her Aspire XP to Coronation ACE. What is the difference? Ty
The Jackson Aspire XP is a beginner blade with an 8’ rocker. The John Wilson Coronation Ace is a developmental blade with a 7’ rocker. It’s the most popular recommendation by coaches when skaters are moving up from a stock boot/blade combination and developing an Axel. It can take a skater through the double Lutz.
@ thank you!
You're welcome!
im between the john wilson gold seal and the john wilson gold seal revolution. What do you recommend? I like that the rev are lighter but they also seem to wear out quicker because of the plate material. I also heard that its harder to grab because of the unique shape. Whereas the regular gold seal is a simple standard shape. I just dont know argghhh
The Gold Seal Revs can also be difficult to have sharpened, unless you have a very good tech in your area. So, if you don't have a good figure skating tech, go with the standard.
@ thank you so much for you're insight. I haven't considered that before. In that case the standard might be the better option
You're welcome!
What are the differences between mk club 2000 and mk professional blades? Also, mk club 2000 or edea rotation? Which one is better?
MK Club 2000 was an entry-level blade with a recommended 1" ROH, intended for Basic Skills skaters that are not yet working on jumps and spins. MK Club 2000 has been discontinued. MK Professional is an instructional-level blade intended for skaters working on single jumps and spins through Learn to Skate USA's Free Skate levels. I have never used or had a skater that has Edea blades. John Wilson and MK are my go-to for blades.
@ Thank you so much!!!
@ Last question!!! I just checked and Mk Club 2000 is my only option to buy where I live... I'm an adult figure skater and I want to land all of my singles and possibly a double salchow. Do you think that club 2000 is going to cause me any troubles along the way? I'm not a competitive figure skater but I might become one for my age group one day.
It’s not recommended for jumping. It’s best to discuss it with your coach. You can also order online.
You’re welcome!
What does bite mean though??
Each individual radius of hollow creates “bite,” which is the depth a blade will penetrate the ice. This affects your control and glide. The deeper the penetration, the tighter the control and more friction. Shallower penetration creates less drag, better flow, and speed, but less grip. The optimum bite for each skater, varies by skating style, weight, ice hardness, and most importantly, personal preference. I explain more in Part 3 here: czcams.com/video/_Xx9Z-7NM4Y/video.html
Is Mk pro ok for beginners??
MK Professional is designed for skaters that are working toward their Axel. In practice its a go-to blade (along with the Coronation Ace) for skaters that are purchasing their first blade separate from their boot.
What about Paramount blades?
Most blades are based off the John Wilson profiles. Beyond the profiles, it’s personal preference. My preference is for John Wilson blades. I’ve never tried Paramount so I can’t speak specifically about them.
@ How often Hohn Wilson blades need to be sharpened?
All blades - no matter what brand - need to be sharpened after every 15-25 hours of skating. The variance depends on your preference. I go into more about sharpening in this video: czcams.com/video/_Xx9Z-7NM4Y/video.html
@
Y friend says that Paramount blades can be sharpened only ones a year even with I tenci e everyday skating
@@rawsunnata829 While Paramount may claim that their blades may be sharpened less often, I doubt that sharpening only once a year is sufficient for daily skating! Discuss this with your own coach and skate tech.
Dear @Aimée Ricca
I believe John Wilson and MK are the only companies whom use term side honing for blades which has concave shape on the sides of the blade. Example Ultima calls this dovetail shape Taper Design or Tapered Edges. So when you talk about side honed blades, I assume you are referring to JW or MK blades.
I have some difficulties to understand how this bite angle increasing materializes in JW or MK blades where concave shape is removed (if it even ever exists) from the edges when chrome removal process is done.
Actually they are rounding the edges quite heavily in all of their blades and in my opinion that causes totally opposite affect than what you explain to the people.
Example Ultima Apex blades this dovetail shape go all the way to the edges like in your sketch and this has increasing bite affect like you explain. Can you kindly clarify more detail level how Side honing increases the bite angle in JW or MK blades?
czcams.com/video/zPbp-xwWUNo/video.html
Actually, other blades such as the Eclipse Pinnacle are also side honed. Paramount also has blades that are side honed. You can see it on the chart on this website: www.kinziescloset.com/blade-comparison-guide.html So, it's not specific to John Wilson and MK. Additionally, MK Phantom Specials are dovetail. You can also have a tapered side-honed blade.
The information in this video was according to a PSA course I took and my research. The authors of the course were Jimmie Santee, PSA Executive Director, and Mark Ladwig, a Jackson Ultima representative. The course material was reviewed by Bruce Hurd and Mitch Moyer, who are renowned master skate technicians.
As I understand it, side-honed blades have sides with a concave design which causes them to be thicker at the stanchions and the edge while thinner in between. They are easily recognizable because they cause reflections to be inverted. Side-honed blades increase bite compared to parallel blades. This feature is only seen in carbon steel blades.
Tapered side honed blades are wider at the front of the blade and is thinned consistently down the length of the blade to the tail. Tapered blades are often side hollow-ground too. This feature reduces blade weight and friction along the ice.
My videos were viewed by Greg the technician at Polar Skate Shop, and John Wilson and MK, who said that my information was accurate. I am not an engineer and did not perform any independent scientific tests on the blades, so I do not have the data you are looking for. It sounds as if you may have performed some tests on your own.
This video is not meant to be as technical as the question you are posing. That level of technical detail would be best addressed by a master blade technician, the R&D, and the engineering teams at the blade manufacturers. You can reach out to the companies directly for more clarification.
@ Thank you for your prompt reply and my apologies that I asked technical things from you. Based on your technical explanations and coach background, I thought you are expert whom does have knowledge and experiences from the things you are lecturing.
I was also wrong when I thought that JW and MK are the only companies whom make side honed blades. However, no matter what is the brand, side honing does not automatically mean that bite angle increases. To increase the bite, concave shape should go all the way to the edges what you use for skating, just like you sketched in your video. It’s like radius of hollow but in the side surface. Unfortunately this nice theory does not materialize, if concave side (edge) grinded to be flat or convex on chrome removal process. This is quite simple engineering, isn’t it?
PS. I was not aware that Paramount Skates which are aluminum framed blades does have also concave shape, which is are thicker at the stanchions and the edge while thinner in between. I need to ask also from Paramount why they make side honing only for their lower end blades which does has have carbon steel runners.
Being a coach and a skater does not make anyone an engineering and product development expert! The best people to ask are the research and development people and engineers - which I am not!
According to expert technicians, side honing increases bite angle, as quite a few published papers verify this. If you have reasons to feel otherwise, please contact the people that I mentioned in my original comment directly with your findings. I'm sure they will want to see what you have come up with and explain their point of view.