Independent Baptist vs Church of Christ - What’s the Difference?
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2019
- The Church of Christ says they are not a denomination - instead they are a restoration of Christ’s true churches. How do they differ from Independent Baptist Churches?
I love how specific this video is cause it was exactly what I was looking for
Same!!
I was born and raised church of Christ. Most people I tell about my experience think I’m exaggerating. My partner is catholic and he didn’t believe that church was 3 hours on Sunday morning and another 2-3 Sunday night. After the first hour when we had a break he got up and said it wasn’t as bad as I made it out to be and asked if I was ready to go. I smiled and said “we haven’t had church yet… that was Sunday school.” The look on his face was priceless.
🤣🤣🤣
I dated a Catholic. She hated that I was uncomfortable with all the statues and icons while being upset that I enjoyed congregational singing.
Rebecca Roberie Most churches of Christ are not that long; usually bible class is an hour and worship is about 1.5 hours on Sunday morning. I actually wish both were longer for where I attend we have really good bible teachers and I love the beautiful singing to our Lord. Also I love fellowshipping with my brothers and sisters in Christ.
@@bmak76 Do you believe one is saved by faith only? Did you say the Sinner's Prayer and ask Jesus into your heart? What do you believe is the purpose of water baptism?
@@bmak76 You do know that Saul who later became the Apostle Paul was told in Acts 22:16 Why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord. His sins were not forgiven til he was baptized. I Peter 3:21 says baptism doth also now save you and you say baptism doth not save you. Jesus said in Mark 16:15-16 "Go into all the world and preach the gospel. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. And he that believeth not shall be condemned. What about in the days of Noah, only eight souls were saved by water; I Peter 3:20? Shouldn't God have let others be saved? Also Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness and he had no sin. We are baptized to have our sins washed away/forgiven; Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38.
Baptist teach that one is saved first by belief only and that is not taught in the word of God. There is a scripture that says NOT by faith only; James 2:24. Read Acts 8:35-39 and note what needs to be done when Jesus is preached. I pray that you will visit the church of Christ for they teach the truth on how to be saved. There also isn't any Sinner's Prayer or accepting Jesus into your heart as your personal savior in the New Testament; it is a man made tradition. Try and find it in the King James Bible it isn't there.
Paul said in Romans 6:3 Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized INTO Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Baptism puts one into Christ. Can one be saved without being "IN Christ?" Paul 's statement in Galatians 3:26-29 further defines the passageway into Christ: For ye are all children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither male nor female, for ye are ALL ONE IN Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's. then ye are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Any other method of entrance such as the Sinner's Prayer is a false approach spoken of by Christ in His words, "but climbeth up some other way" (John 10:10). The Sinner's Prayer puts no one into Christ. Because the Sinner's Prayer is not the obedient act whereby we "put on Christ."The Sinner's Prayer", therefore, does not make all one in Christ Jesus. And because the Sinner's Prayer does not make us heirs according to the promise. Baptism for remission of sins is the only obedient act that accomplishes all of these things (Galatians 3;26-29, Romans 6:3-5).
This is a very informative video and, as someone who is part of churches of Christ, I can say that his depiction of us is quite accurate. The only things I would modify are 1) When he says that some wear head coverings, don't eat in a church building, insist on one cup for the Lord's Supper, etc., "some" should probably be understood as a small minority. Mainstream churches of Christ have no issue with most of the things mentioned in this portion of the video. Going along with this observation is 2) CENI is something that churches of Christ apply with varying degrees of flexibility. The most conservative churches are very stringent in making sure every practice can be labelled as either a command, example, or necessary inference. The most progressive churches probably do not seriously consider CENI at all when setting a policy. Some in mainstream churches of Christ likely do not realize they can apply CENI inconsistently, but others who nuance their understanding of it generally recognize that CENI is an important interpretive principle but not the overarching paradigm for how all Scripture should be read. Thank you for the video, and for the opportunity to learn some about Independent Baptist Churches!
Well said Brother Lee. Just like the Independent Baptists there are varying views on salvation etc. to be found in CofCs. Some congregations do not use Instrumental Music in the assembly but do not believe it is sinful to do so. Yes, it is good to learn more about other religious groups. Thanks for the video.
Lee, Thank you for your considerate response. Goes along with initial effort from this man. I think Location can affect Doctrine.
@@steenystuff1075 Very true. We humans make the gospel so complicated. If you are thinking about Christ talking to him in prayer or share him with others. You are probably saved. It all about Jesus.
Name one New Testament example of salvation, beyond the Resurrection and Pentecost that does not culminate in Baptism per Acts 2:38.
In 1 John 5:13, belief is a synecdoche for the plan of salvation; which includes Hearing the Gospel message, Believing in Jesus, Repentance of sins, Confession of Christ, and Baptism. All of these are explicit in the account of the Eunuch in Acts 8 except Repentance which in implicit in the account.
As a member of the church of Christ, I wanted to say thank you for your fair representation of our faith. If anyone here wants to know more about the church of Christ and why we believe what we believe, I am happy to answer.
How do you understand the biblical doctrine of prevenient grace (the idea that God enables all people to respond to his call to salvation) and how does it affect your view of human free will and divine sovereignty?
@@transatlanticwhirlwind7589 one of the first sermons I preach when asked to fill in at a new congregation is "What is Grace?" I even wrote it as an article on my website and I believe this is one of the most important concepts for people seeking after God to understand.
When I look through scripture at all the things the Bible has to say about saving grace, it has a lot to say about grace. We all know that grace means an unmerited favor, an unearned gift from God. Beyond that, many don't identify what that gift is. I would argue that God's gift to mankind that we did not earn, that God had in mind from the foundation of the world, was the plan of salvation (not salvation itself). This plan includes as its central point, Jesus Himself - the only unique Son of God (John 3v16). This includes His virgin birth, His sinless life, His redemptive work, His sacrifice on the cross, His death, burial, resurrection, ascension, High Priesthood, Kingship...and His teachings. What I mean is that the New Testament, Matthew to Revelation, is part of God's grace to mankind.
So when I talk about saving grace, this is what I mean. Is that prevenient? Absolutely. Christ came and taught the Apostles everything that we read in the NT. Then, while the world was yet lost in its sin, Christ died. Both of those things happened before man could begin to be saved, so in that sense it is totally prevenient.
As to the enabling part, I believe God enabled us via design to understand, to reason properly, and to respond with true (what is sometimes called "libertarian") free will to that call by the gospel (2 Thess 2v14). I do not hold to hereditary depravity (see Ezekiel 18) or the concept of "sinful nature" of mankind.
I believe that all men are born pure, sinless, innocent (Deut 1v39; Rom 9v11; Rom 7v9) and that sin is neither our nature nor inevitable (1 Cor 10v13). Until we die physically and our soul is separated from our body, we have the choice to follow self or God.
In terms of God's sovereignty, this means a few things, none of which holds to the deterministic ideas espoused by Calvinism and Reformed theology. Rather than typing out the whole response to this, I will refer you to another article I wrote defining the term as I understand it:
swordmasterpublications.fandom.com/wiki/Sovereignty_Defined
I hope this answers your question sufficiently.
What's your opinion on Christian Church's ? Besides organ/piano usage.
@NZIGNANTI they are a distinct church and so cannot be the church Jesus built, though they are the closest man-made facsimile to it. If they would give up their additions and submit to the Word in all things, then they would cease to be a different organization. Their baptism would be valid for being added to the Lord's church rather than a man made one.
Hello, which Bible translation does the Church of Christ use exclusively? NIV, NASB, KJV, NKJV, ESV, etc. Thank you.
This is very accurate. The "some" (one cupper, one loafers, no Bible classes) are a very small minority.
We speak where the Bible speaks and remain silent where the Bible is silent.
We are members of the of the church of which Christ Jesus established Who is the Head of and will remain forever. We are not even close to the church of John Calvin nor do we adhere to the "gospel of John Calvin."
It's funny you mention Thomas Campbell, I never knew who Thomas Campbell was until I was about 40 years old when I happened upon a book with his name on the cover in the church building library.
The baptist know more about Thomas Campbell than we do and use a derogatory term in calling Christ's church members "Campbellites."
you're right.. campbell did not establish the church of christ, jesus established it. campbell simply found out about the church by studying the scriptures. i read there are over 500 one cup congregations in the u.s.
@@JxT1957
I believe that to be true. I'm pretty sure it was part if what is commonly known as "The Restoration Movement" with another gentleman named Barton Stone.
Apparently they were Presbyterians.
Check out: The Last Will and Testament of The Springfield Presbytery.
Im so happy to finally understand the difference with the allurement. And yes I just subscribe to your channel. Keep me posted thanks😊😊⭐⭐⭐
Thank you for sharing this!
Much respect on your diligence
You are an extraordinarily intelligent and well-informed commentator on The Word.
A real church of Christ will consist of members who believe and act as the first Christians did as recorded in the New Testament.
and not support Donald Trump.
I have a question. As no women participated in the Last Supper where The Lord instituted the Lord's Supper, are women in the Church of Christ permitted to partake in "Communion" services?
@@baconbap what the heck does trump have to do with it??
@@alicegriffin8545 Taking the Lords supper on the first day of the week is commanded of all Christians.
@@baconbap No Donald Trump nor Biden; ha ha. It would be nice to have a man of God in the Oval Office but who in their right mind would want that job?
Thank you so much for this video I'm very pleased for the information it was very helpful
Very informative bro. Thanks! God bless!
Can you please do a comparison for Christian church disciples of Christ? Your videos are so informative!
Listening to this makes me even more grateful for my own Church of choice I belong to, and the restoration of Christ's gospel and his organization. Wow. These guys are all over the place with theologies. BUT, one thing is for certain...as Christians, we should all be more supportive and considerate of one another's choice of Church which we may decide to join or if we choose not to belong to a particular Church. We all believe in the saving grace of Christ and we are going to need one another. Just bring all the truths you know and rejoice in Jesus Christ as we follow him. I hope we will not fight and argue amongst ourselves and allow everyone to seek out and make their own choice of church without treating one another poorly.
...you sound like a Mormonite...but only the modern variety...
What you describe is universalism.
@@anarchorepublican5954 Another good comment here.
binmyrtmind Where in the scriptures does it say "join the church of your choice? Please read Acts 2:36-42. In the first century they never knew about all the different denominations we have today teaching different ways to be saved.
Let each and every one of us search the scriptures to find the church of Christ's choice - the church that He Himself declared He would build. Did He build that church? Or did He just give up and day, "Oh, go ahead and do whatever you want, I don't care."?
Very informative. Thanks!
Very clear comparison and accurate information
This guy is so informative. Love him.
Baptists believe one is saved by faith only but there is not a scripture that says one is saved by faith only. Jesus does say "He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved and he who does not believe shall be condemned." (Mark 16:16). Even Saul who later became the Apostle Paul was told in Acts 22:16 "Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord." Peter says in Acts 2:38 "Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR (means the reason why) the remission of sins. So if Jesus, Paul and Peter says baptism is essential to be saved then it is good enough for me. Also baptism is not a work of man but faith in the working of God and some versions say operation of God; Colossians 2:12.
Baptism by itself does not save one also needs to do what is said above and also confess that Jesus is the Son of God; Acts 8:37. Also read Acts 8:35-39 and you will see what needs to be done when Jesus is preached. Also note baptism is an immersion and not sprinkling nor pouring.
@@lindahutchens8612 there are plenty of verses in the King James Bible a person is saved by faith alone it does not have to say faith only the scriptures are very easy to understand let me say this the entire book of the gospel according to John is faith alone no other book in the Bible can contradict that that means the Bible does not contradict it self there are no contradictions lastly let me say this because it is very important the book of acts which the church of Christ loves by the way does not contradict John let me say this also the book of acts can be VERY DANGEROUS IF NOT UNDERSTOOD PROPERLY the book of acts just like every other book of the Bible must be studied as a whole not just a few verses what do i mean by not being understood properly ? Well false doctrine can be formed by skipping words by skipping verses skipping chapters with out detailed study and discernment cults are built around a few verses and they do not focus on any verse or chapter that does not support their view yes like I said the Bible must be studied as a whole not just a few verses that seems so called to support a certain doctrine of a cult spiritual discernment is the key that comes from the Holy Ghost nothing I say here is most likely going to change your mind because I have debated church of Christ members before on CZcams like I said before when a verse very clearly states faith alone a church of Christ preacher will say that verse does not mean faith alone and they view that verse through what they believe in the verses they love the most
@@historychannel123 What about John 3:5 does that say faith alone? Does one need to confess Jesus or repent? Also baptism is necessary to be saved; Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Mark 16:16 and I Peter 3:21 says baptism doth also now save us. You say baptism doth not now save us. You just ignore all these scriptures and your belief that faith only saves is in fact a contradiction of James 2:24 which says not by faith only. By the way even Saul who later became the Apostle Paul had to be baptized to wash away his sins.
@@historychannel123 Did you receive my comments to your post tome about faith only? I sent them to you hours ago today, Monday.
@@lindahutchens8612 do you really understand why man must be born again ?
I was raised baptist and went to a church of Christ high school. From my experience it seemed that wearing hats inside the church building at a CoC is not okay at anytime, even if there’s no events happening, whereas I’ve seen some people wear hats at my church, less often during the actual service than at other times, and people generally take their hat off during prayers no matter where they are.
I don’t even wear hats, I just thought it was an interesting observation to add.
Yes very true! I remember my Grandpa and other older men taking their hats off way before they get inside like just to be sure or something. I don't wear hats either though.
I was raised Apostolic pentecostal. Jesus only i had lots of baptists friends im a chicano our church was spanish speaking i became a believer got baptized in jesus name and receive thevholy spirit i spoke in new tongues halleluyah. Its a great feeling to feel his love after im still praising his name
I think it’s because taking your hat off is a sign of respect.
@@davidortega357 Have you raised anybody from the dead, given a person their sight back who was born blind, etc? Where is the name Apostolic Pentecostal in the word of God?
@@unknownprivate3721 It's because of 1 Corinthians 11:4. One interpretation stipulates no hat for the gents and head covering for the ladies.
I grew up in (and, 30 years ago, left) the churches of Christ, and this is one of the most accurate and clear explanations of what the churches of Christ believe and how they operate (with the caveat Lee Hagewood mentioned below that head coverings and "one-cuppers" and the like are a very tiny minority in this already tiny group). Well done, and thank you for something I can point people to that explains the group I grew up in.
Individual congregations are free to practice such things as head coverings, one cupping, not eating in the building, if the elders determine to do so, bit they are not free to make such practices binding (a "matter of fellowship"; quietly declaring that are Christians who do not observe such practices are either "in error" or cannot be fellowshipped as real Christians).
If I may ask, what church are you apart of now? I also grew up in COC.
@@willpower3317 I'm no longer a believer. I'm not a Christian, and I don't believe in God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit. In terms of how I live my life and try to care for others, I think I'm a pretty good "Christian," except that I follow none of the doctrines fundamental beliefs about deity or the afterlife.
Hello, thank you for your time in giving this brief yet in-depth synopsis of the differences between the Church of Christ beliefs and Independent Baptist. Please advise which Bible translation the Church of Christ uses.
As a CoC member, I can tell you that there's no single "prescribed" translation - it's mainly up to personal preference and conscience. Having said that, I'd say that a plurality prefer the KJV/NKJV. While I've also heard of a preference for the NASB, in my experience the NIV has kind of taken the #2 spot. For me personally, I prefer the NET for study and when I'm preparing lessons, but I'll also occasionally go back to my NKJV just because the language is as poetic as you'll see.
Like the first reply said, we don't have a translation that we strictly use. Personally, I switch off between NIV and Christian Standard Version.
As a lifelong restorationist loosely associated with the independent Christian Churches, with independent Baptist friends, I sincerely congratulate you on your fair, objective, and balanced treatment of these distinctives. I would love to see your treatment of independent Christian Churches.
I recently began to attend both Bible class and worship service at a local independent Christian church and I really love what I'm seeing there and I, too, would love to see their treatment of the independent Christian Church faith in their next video presentation.
@ Felipe Watkinson. I'm intrigued by your description of yourself as being both a lifelong restorationist and loosely associated with the ICC's. Just wondering how that plays out. I preached for the Churches of Christ for several decades and then a twist of fate found me preaching for independent Christian Churches. From what I've seen, the only diff in the two is how the music is handled (and I never fell for the party line on acapella singing). Anyway, that is my experience. Just curious about your description...
@@RobertoLopez-xb1mj What church, and where?
@@r.f.pennington746 I am a 45-year-long second-generation missionary to Mexico, now working full time in the States to feed the family. Our mission agency was associated with the independent Christian Churches/ Churches of Christ. However, this brotherhood began to slip as early as the late 70's, largely due to the influence of Donald McGavran and the various "church-growth", seeker-sensitive, mega-church theories and models. Today, the emerging/emergent church has gone mainstream in academic circles, and a number of our schools and leaders are rapidly embracing what is called "Progressive Christianity" (theological liberalism regurgitated) There is a general lack of Biblical discernment at every level of the fellowship, and I think that the same can be said of the acapella brethren. For a fuller treatment of these subjects, I recommend Michael Hines' book History of the American Restoration Movement
@@felipewatkinson2101 For sure, the overall progressive movement has done a number on all the Restoration churches. Look what it did to the Disciples of Christ starting in the 50's and ploughing headlong into most of the 60's. Different talking points, because it was a different time in history, but the result is the same. I know some ICC's and CoC's that have fallen for this old slant dressed up in new clothes. However, I also know of some still extremely strong congregations on both sides of the 'musical instruments' if my humour isn't to dry. I guess we will always be fighting that balance between folks wanting to do 'cool church' and falling too far. We should be open minded...but not so open minded that our brains are falling out! There will always be a need for the watchman on the wall. Your name sounds familiar. Did you happen to be either in Mex City or Toluca somewhere around 1991 give or take? If so, our paths probably crossed.
Don’t know what he is, but did a pretty good job of explaining the church of Christ.
I agree!
@@tommatthews9341 l agree as well. Looks like 3 of us agree.
...he's an "independent Baptist', a professor of comparative religion at one of their Bible colleges...he tries to be neutral...
I grew up churches of Christ. I believe once you are saved, you are saved. I also believe that churches of Christ aren’t the only people going to heaven.
@@BigT-vk5yn ...I'm curious ...when you say "..I believe once you are saved, you are saved...."...do you mean the common evangelical "once saved always saved"/ "Impossibility of Apostasy"...or rather apostasy isn't entirely impossible- it just isn't probable?...
Can I ask why you used a picture of this particular church building?
t mills did you get my comment I sent you regarding the church of Christ you attended?
Church of Christ member here 💓
I'm a Baptist visited a Church of Christ in South Barre Vermont. But I did love it.
Thank you for your unbiased review as for the most part you were spot on concerning the Lords church ROMANS 16:16 "The churches of Christ greet you "
I was born and raised in coC's, as were my mother, grandfather, great-grandfather, and possibly great-great-not-sure-exactly-how-many-generations. I am very familiar with the principles of the Restoration Movement. Yet I was never really taught anything about the head covering and only began to cover about 10 years ago (I'm almost 70 now). Oddly enough, the wife of a Baptist minister in Baltimore had come to the same understanding of 1 Corinthians 11 as I did, although neither of us was raised to practice the head covering. She came across my website / videos and we corresponded by email for awhile. I don't know what kind of Baptist she is, but I am the only one who covers in the congregations where I have worshipped; and she and a few others are the only ones in their Baptist congregation who cover. We discussed faith & works back and forth for awhile but did not arrive at a common understanding on that ---- yet we both completely agree that the head covering is a symbol of giving glory to God, and we each came to that conclusion by independent study of the Bible, apart from any church teaching. (Incidentally, I have created a series of short Women's Bible Study video lessons on the head covering, on which I've received a number of views and encouraging comments from other women. When a woman covers her head, that is not a symbol of her subjection to man. A woman's HEAD is a symbol of the authority of man, and when she COVERS her head, she is covering up, hiding from view, taking attention away from, and humbling the symbol of man's authority, thereby symbolically proclaiming that man's authority and glory are inferior to Christ's authority and God's glory. This study is for WOMEN ONLY. If you are interested and you are a woman, just click on the bumblebee.)
Thank you so much .. What domination is Win Worly?
If you believe that Jesus Christ died on an old rugged cross and you’ve been born again of the Spirit of God you are my brother and sister in Christ
You forgot repentance.
Here is my two cents on the church of Christ
We have separate cups and bread for communion
We have separate classes for age groups so toddlers" elementary, middle and high school, adults including college students as we have two of them
Headcoverings are not required but some of us do wear them in accordance to 1 Corinthians 11
We hold potlucks at least mine does and a few others
My church has two elders and the desccions are made by the elders the preacher and youth minister and then put to a vote by the congregation
We do not use instruments we think it is wise not to but outside of service we listen to instrumental music
We believe if someone dies to young to baptized that they will be saved
Please note this is what my congeration does slash believes
@Wesley and Lydia wondering what you mean by "Head covering is not required but some of us do wear them in accordance to 1Cor.11"?
Have you read (vs.16)?
@@nikeinjesus1668 some people choose to wear them
@@lilacmosby2837 I'm surprised to hear that there are churches of Christ today who misunderstand those scriptures. I'm sure they know it is not used by an overwhelming majority. Makes you wonder what else they may misunderstand and practice.
@@nikeinjesus1668 something you have to remember is individuals interpret scripture differently so while one might think it means one thing someone else might think it means something else
Slash from guns n roses is a believer?
Just a simple question here, others have already spoke in regards to the churches of Christ and some of those views being a minority view in some of the peculiarities. One thing I would like to know, is there a cohesive view on the administration a baptism between independent Baptist and churches of Christ. From all that I know from both is that a submersion is necessary. Where is sprinkling and pouring are not practiced.
Christipher Milton churches of Christ do NOT sprinkle nor do pouring because in the word of God it says baptism is an immersion in water; read Acts 8:35-39 and note (it is either verse 37 or 38 that says they went down into the water. Hope this helps.
Nice job
Grew up Church of Christ in Texas all my life and this is so spot on. Had lots of Baptist friends to debate with lol Fun fact: a lot of the older, smaller, 'more strict' churches built their Parsonage as a separate building(usually just a house) for eating and general fellowship. I briefly went to one as a child, we did have Sunday school though. But instruments?! Oh no, you better not even clap in the Churchhouse! Lol
That is so true.
Belive it or not, the newer churches of Christ are not as strict as it used to be. Yes, the older more conservative churches of Christ are still that way but, the younger preachers and congregation are with the hand clapping and foot stomping and things of that nature. Still, no instruments and I do understand why.
Women cut their hair? No? You aren't true Church of Christ.
I grew up in the Baptist church. But last year I became baptized and gave my life to the Lord our God who is in heaven.
Kind of ironic that baptists must be baptized. However I'm not sold just yet because the man who was crucified beside Jesus was not baptized. But I did both just in case I didn't quite fully understand lol
@@craigsinclair4419 Hey Craig How do we know he wasn't Baptized? John's baptism was in power at the time there's no scripture telling us he was or he was not Baptized, for certain he was a Jew one who heard Christ's teachings because he asked that Christ remember him when he came into His kingdom (Luke 23:42-42) and while on Earth the message of the kingdom was Preached first to Jews (Acts 3:26) ...just a thought Craig , take care
Paul said I didn't come to baptise but to preach the Gospel.
But said in Act 2 : 38 repent and be baptise for the remission of sin
But said and in Act 2 : 28 Repent and be baptise for the remission of sin
@@samguillepa6477
The very question was asked " what must I do to be saved?"
The philippian jailer asked it. Now what was the answer?
BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!
The eunuch was wondering what hinders me to be baptized?
And was told believest with all thine heart thou mayest and he said I believe!
Now to be saved you must believe in your heart confess with your mouth brings salvation. And he did just that and the baptism in water is just a outward testimony of what has happened since you believed.
@@user-sl5rk4dm8y The very examples you use to proof text your belief disproves what you believe.
you quote Acts 16:31 ‘Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved' but neglect the fact that they do not know what to believe until they are taught in vs32 "Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house". So, upon
hearing the gospel he repents, shows his repentance by his deeds and is baptised. This is always the pattern. Hear, believe, repent, confess, be baptised.
Regarding the Ethiopian Eunuch: Acts 8:35 "Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. 36 As they travelled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, ‘Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptised?’
What do you think Philip told him was necessary as part of the good news about Jesus given the Eunuch's response? When you know the truth of the good news about Jesus you will understand that it requires baptism to enter into his plan of salvation revealed through faith in the Cross of Christ. If baptism is not essential then neither is the death of Christ; because Romans 6:3 says we are baptised into his death.
@@ChristisSaviour
Living by faith and feel no alarm
The main question ive always had is what do you do about the people who cant get baptized? Like older people in nursing homes, prisoners in islamic countries, etc.
Thank you
C.O.C. believe in the Authority of Scripture -Mt 28:18-20 make disciples, baptize them, teach them to obey. ‘Works salvation’ is a misnomer - ‘baptism,saying a prayer, accepting Jesus’ can all be called ‘works’. We are saved by Gospel -death,burial & resurrection of Jesus & our FAITH in it exercised in a scriptural baptism-Col 2:12.
Liz Miller Baptism is not a work of man but a work of God; Colossians 2:12 and is necessary for salvation. Why would God work and some versions say "faith in the operation of God if it is not necessary?
So all I am hearing is that the coc has a higher view of scripture via a more rationalized hermeneutic.
Me too
Can you please explain what your just said?
Well... they have a higher view of the new testament. But they dismiss the Law and the prophets.
How does CENI explain the use of power point presentations during a sermon?
Or song books . . .
Regarding the Lord's Supper, the Apostle Paul wrote "Whenever ye eat this bread and drink this cup...". Whenever means whenever.
Funny how Baptists don't believe it is necessary to take the Lord's supper every first day of the week but believe you need to tithe every first day of the week. What's up with that?
Umm, maybe a few Baptists believe it's necessary to tithe, but not any of the ones I know.
You really did your research on this one. I never heard anyone who is not a member? of the CoC explain it so well. For the record I'm not a member of the Church of Christ although I was many years ago. Today I'm with a church that teaches primarily expositionally the books of the Bible in a series on Sunday mornings and Wednesdays. Besides the CENI method I believe many COC use inductive Bible study methods to have a more full picture of the text to teach from or study at home. But I do agree with what some folks here have said the one cup, or women wearing head coverings are a small group. For that matter I totally forgot about the small group of churches that practice head coverings.
And I've visited some Independent Baptist Churches and for the ones I've been to they seem pretty well grounded in the Scriptures. I agree with using the Majority Text for a Bible translation, includes Textus Receptus, but also NASB and NKJV are a few more literal versions use that as well as the KJV. Add in the Modern English Version, a good translation don't let the word modern fool ya and there are no missing verses in these translations.
Easy to understand
I suppose ion one respect the brotherhoods of Independent Baptist churches and churches of Christ should be noted. I have noted over the last 35+years as a member of the church of Christ that many of my brethren have made it the main purpose of their lives to keep me informed from Sunday to Sunday on the state of the weather. Thanks to their passionate devotion to this task I have always been well informed on what the weather has been recently, what it is now, and what it will soon become.
And now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16
@JalapenoDoubleCheeseburger yeah that too. you must believe- john 3:16, you must repent- luke 13:3, you must confess- mathew 10:32, and you must be baptized- mark 16:16, acts 2:38, acts 22:16
If baptism is necessary for salvation, then how do you explain the thief on the cross? He wasn't baptized before he died but Jesus promised that that day he would meet with him in paradise.
Sorry, that is not a difficult question. Christ had the power to forgive sins on earth. ( Read Matt 9:1-8). It is very informative. The thief event did not negate baptism for the forgiveness of sins!
@@darrellclark2248 Of course he had power to forgive sins on earth. And he still does. My sins were forgiven by the same Jesus as the thief on the cross. Why would baptism suddenly become integral to salvation after the ascension?
@@jonathanmcentire970 Read Roman 6:1-14 and listen to the words Paul actually used. God is not the secondary cause but the primary through Christ. Baptism is based on the power of the Spirit (John 3:5-8; 1 Cor 12:13; Titus 3:5). God is sovereign and saves whomever he pleases. He gives mercy and grace and he is not limited by anything but his divine word and nature. It is the work of the Spirit to place one into the Church which was purchased with Christ’s blood. In water baptism we are trusting in the power of God (Col 2:12).
Roman Catholics have a concept called "baptism of desire." I suspect the average coC member would have no problem with this concept . . . assuming that they can get past the fact that Catholics promote it.
@@MAMoreno The concept is speculative, but it taps into God as sovereign and able to save according to the heart of an individual. This idea was certainly present in the thinking of Alexander Campbell and many early leaders at least as recent as David Lipscomb. Such a practice should not be encouraged as an escape mechanism to avoid plain biblical teachings! Peace!
Overall, this is a good video, but, you have not distinctly differentiated between Church of Christ (a cappella) and Church of Christ/Christian Church. Within the Restoration Movement, we think of ourselves as having 3 distinct groups. The legalist CoC a cappella, CoC/CC (independent), and Disciples of Christ.
In the North, a great number independent instrumental churches go by CoC
Zane Griggs I attend the church of Christ and we are not legalistic as you call us just because we don't use instruments. We are not "one cuppers", have bible study at the building before worship and the children have their own bible study also before worship. All children meet together during Sunday worship with the adults. We talk about what Christ did for us in dying on the cross for the sins of man and about the grace of God. We also teach what Jesus taught "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. And he who does not believe shall be damned; Mark 16:16. I Peter 3:21 says baptism doth also now save us and Colossians 2:12 says God is the one who works in baptism and other versions says operates in baptism. There is no scripture that says one is saved by faith only. All denominations teach conflicting doctrines; therefore, it isn't possible that all of them are biblically correct. Acts 2:38 says we must repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins and Saul who later became the Apostle Paul was told to in Acts 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord." Paul was still in his sins until he was baptized. Also read Acts 8:35-39 and note the baptism that needs to be done is in water (not sprinkling verse 36, 38) and the confession that he made was "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God"; verse 37. May I ask if you ever attended the church of Christ and where do you worship at now?
As a member of the Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, I have to say that is one thing that most outsiders tend to overlook. They either just assume we are part of the non-instrumentalists/CoC or the Disciples. As far as issues like "legalism", your mileage will vary widely from individual church to individual church. I've worshipped at non-instrumentalist churches before, and some were just like the traditional style Christian Church services, just without the piano playing along. Others were very legalistic indeed. It really depends on the preacher and elders an individual church has, as there's no governing body beyond them to standardize things (which is a very good thing, as such bodies have been the ruin of many denominations!)
Next video please baptist church vs eastern orthodox
Possibly one in SBC vs Church of Christ?
What's SBC?
@@philarevolutionarywarriorp8295 Southern Baptist Convention
I have been in both worlds.... baptism is simple....
"To be baptize is blessed, to refuse is damnation"
Well said
We get baptized because we are saved not to get saved.
@@turtleneckferret Where is the scripture that says you get baptized because you are saved not to be saved? Mark 16:16 says otherwise.
@@Over-for-now You are the one who is denying the words of Jesus in Mark 16:15-16 which says "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved. And he who believeth not shall be condemned. You believe "He that believeth is saved" and that contradicts Mark 16:15-16. Only penitent believers are candidates for baptism; Acts 2:38. One is not saved by faith only; James 2:24. Also there is no Sinner's Prayer in the New Testament or asking Jesus into your heart. Read Acts 8:35-39 and note what needs to be done when Jesus is preached and verse I Peter 3:21 says baptism doth also now save us and you say baptism doth not save us. Galatians 3:27 tells us that baptism puts one "in Christ."
@@turtleneckferret Mark 16:16 contradicts what you said "We get baptized because we are saved not to get saved. Also I Peter 3:21 says baptism doth also now save us.
when did the guy who hung at the cross next to Jesus get baptized? did they take him off the cross for water baptism?
You don’t know if the thief was baptized or not. There’s more information in the Bible leaning towards the possibility of the thief being baptized with the baptism of John then him not being baptized at all.
Scripture DOES NOT tell us the thief was baptized.
The Scriptures do tell us that the thief died under the OT Law..
The “GREAT COMMISSION” Jesus gave to His Disciples, was for them to preach and teach and baptize…
The thief was dead at that time.
Therefore the thief COULD not be baptized.. the thief was dead and in paradise LIKE Jesus said He would be, at the point of Jesus speaking to Him.
Did they take him off the Cross? How and why would they?
Do you believe Jesus lied to the thief?
If Jesus didn’t know the thief would die, why would Jesus say to the thief, today you will be with me?
So Jesus knew the thief would die, otherwise don’t you think Jesus wouldn’t have said “TODAY you will be with me in paradise?
So of course the thief didn’t get off the Cross, and neither did anyone take him off, because Jesus said He was about to die. He implied the thief would die, and be with Him. So the thief, and Jesus apparently was with each other like Jesus said…
So of course the thief didn’t need baptism…
You do! You’re not the thief. If you want to be saved you MUST obey the Lords commands.
Mark 16:16 was AFTER the thief died. Sorry. Extremely too late for the thief to obey.
By the way. When Jesus says YOU are saved, you are saved..
Also, when Jesus gives you an order into being saved. You must follow that order, or you’re not saved!
That’s Bible.
Leave the thief out of it. The thief was on the OT side of the Cross, when Jesus ROSE, ANYONE, now MUST obey the commands of Christ.
If you die in a car crash on your way to being baptized, will you still make it to Heaven?
The churches of Christ do not teach “salvation experiences” nor baptism.
First: your feelings, beliefs, experiences and thoughts have nothing to do with salvation. Only obedience does!
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Second: Jesus is who teaches baptism:
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
There ya go!
Then peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus. Christ and you shall receive the gift of the holy ghost.
@@davidortega357: that’s great scripture that teaches baptism is for the remission of sins; just like…
Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
So what are you trying to say?
"He that getteth on the bus and sitteth down, goeth into town. But he who does not get on the bus, goeth not into town."
It does not matter whether you sit down, just that you get on the bus.
@@chadtraywick2286: explain please
@@chadtraywick2286 he that writes his name on the test and takes the test will get a grade. He that does not write his name on the test will not get a grade.
You can take the test, but if you don't do both you cannot get a grade.
Your logic is saying Jesus contradicted himself in Matthew 28:18-20 and Mark 16:16. There are too many scriptures to prove one must be baptized to be saved...and baptism alone won't save you.
I've yet to have anyone explain to me how they draw the conclusion that water baptism is anything more than ceremonial, yet still God's command.
Similar to the sacrifices in the Old Testaments, they didn't forgive sins - God did. They where a ceremonial practice, to denote repentance and obedience to God.
Several times God commanded the Israelites to stop sacrificing until they got their hearts right. Their sacrifice meant nothing to Him.
Idk. Chasing the truth is hard, with so many false teachings in the world.
Idk. Mark 16:15-16 and Acts 2:37-38 seem pretty darn Clear.
Baptism is like a signature on a marriage license, the ceremonial act of signing the document seals the deal so to speak. God made a promise to save those who believe and are baptized(Mark 16:16), we can point to our baptism and be sure of salvation. Can God save the unbaptized? Of course, God can do what he wants! But why not take advantage of his unbreakable promise of salvation to those who believe and are baptized?
@@philarevolutionarywarriorp8295 Don't forget Acts 22:16.
@@laststand6420 Funny thing is, that what YOU say Baptism is. The Word of God says different 🤦♂️
...really...try reading the Bible
The video stated the Church of Christ does not adhere to any extra-Biblical doctrines. Do they believe YHWH is a Trinity of 3 persons in one Godhead?
Serious question from a Southern Baptist. A friend found Christ while deployed to Iraq. There isn’t a lot of water to be Baptized in a desert. He didn’t survive that deployment. According to The Church of Christ, is he barred from entering heaven?
IMO (former CoC) some would say yes and others would say no. If he was hosetly learning and trying to obey... he'll be there ❤
@@wydopnthrtl You don’t have Scripture for that! You are not the JUDGE. Also that’s a statement that only Scripture can deal with.
Maybe we shouldn’t focus too much on what happens when people die but what we can do to make sure they are right with GOD when they go.
How do you say that baptism is against Evangelical view? It’s in God’s written Word, except a man be born of water and the Spirit, those who were buried with Christ have put on Christ, he that believes and is baptized shall be saved one body, one Spirit, one faith, one baptism one hope of your calling, repent and be baptized every one of you for the remission of your sins.
Evangelicalism, which is a human title used to describe certain American churches, is opposed to baptism as necessary to savation, though they are not opposed to baptism.
Be born of water and of the spirit. you are misreading it sir water birth is out of a womans womb that's what hes talking about and if the spirit is when you repent and accept Jesus as Lord you receive the holy spirit and are reborn
@@CazDad are you 100% positive Jesus is referencing water in Jn.3:5 to birth water?
Let's see. Did you know when Nicodemus came to Jesus that night, Jesus knew Nico and his pharisees companions had "rejected the counsel of God not being baptized of John"?
Let that sink in, to refuse John's baptism, resulted in rejecting God's counsel.
When the Pharisees demanded of Jesus to answer "by what authority do you do these things? Jesus answered and said "if you answer my question I'll tell you by what authority I do these things."
They agreed, and Jesus asked "the baptism of John, was it from heaven or of man?" They huddle and refused to answer breaking the agreement. But Jesus didn't let them go, he told them the parable of the two sons, and after asking another question, he let them have it.
Jesus said "the harlots and tax collectors go into the kingdom of God before you."
Why Cameron? Because they justified God in sending John to baptize them. Meaning they declared God just in sending John to baptize them for the forgiveness of their sins (Mk.1:4).
For those who submitted to John's baptism Jesus said would "go" into the kingdom.
When Nicodemus approaches Jesus goes straight to the point and said "unless a man is born again he can not see kingdom of God."
Now remember, those who were baptized under John's baptism were going into the kingdom.
If Nicodemus had any intentions of becoming a disciple of Jesus, then he needed to do what everyone else was doing, and that was to submit to John's baptism.
Nicodemus wasn't prepared, and asked "how can a man when he is OLD, be born again?"
Jesus wasn't making it easy for him, as he was humbling Nicodemus. Jesus answered and explained "unless a man is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom." For Nicodemus (an old man) to be born again he needed to be born again of water and the Spirit.
Nicodemus didn't have a problem with water referring to baptism for John and Jesus both had been baptizing thousands in water (Jn.4:1-2).
It was the part of the Spirit that Nicodemus had a problem with understanding.
As Jesus further explained, "that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Keeping in context, water = baptism, that which is born of the flesh is the visible baptismal ceremony when our bodies are immersed in water. And born of the Spirit is invisible ("as the wind blows where it wishes") as the forgiveness of sins, the reception of the Spirit, and the answer of a good conscience.
According to Peter "we have purified our souls in obeying the truth. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible, through the living and abiding word of God" (1Pt.1:22-23). The HS begets us through the Word of truth.
Water in Jn.3:5 has never been a reference to child birth until Calvin interpreted as such. But scriptures don't support it. Remember, Jesus sits on that counsel as well, no one who is not baptized in water, as the Holy Spirit guides us through the truth will not see, nor enter the kingdom. "Marvel not what I told you, you must be born again."
@@nikeinjesus1668 you're clearly teaching a works based Gospel wich is a false Gospel I do believe some people are saved in your denomination but spiritually being starved by the false Gospel yall teach which is a Gospel of works being Baptized doesn't make you repent repentance comes from turning from your sins and turning to Jesus
@@CazDad is this the best you can do? It's obvious.
You just been proven Jesus is NOT speaking of the "amniotic fluid" that breaks from child birth in Jn.3:5, and instead of dealing with it maturely, or demonstrating any Christ like example in your heart, you pathetically result to insults, typicall of someone who can't defend their position Biblically.
You may not know this, but it was your precious Calvin who first interpreted water in Jn.3:5 to refer to something it's not.
This is your position Cameron. "Unless you Nicodemus, an Old Man, is not born "again" of amniotic fluid and the Spirit you cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Yeah that makes alot of sense Cameron.
Cameron, "if" there's any drop of Christianity in you, stop trying to explain away scripture and deal with what Jesus said, not Calvin, not your pastor, but Jesus.
Here's your chance to prove your position. In the context of Jn.3, in order for an OLD man, Nicodemus, to be granted entrance into the kingdom, he had be born "again" of amniotic fluid. Go for it, but stay in context.
Here's your delimma Cameron.
Jesus granted access into the kingdom to those who submitted to John's baptism. "The harlots and tax collectors "go" into the kingdom of God before you."
They didn't have to go back into their mothers womb and be born again of amniotic fluid, they repented and were baptized (Mk.:4).
But "you" Cameron, is the one who is teaching false doctrines, for your position is that one first has to be born "again" of "amniotic fluid" in order to be granted entrance into the kingdom. That's not what Jesus said!
That's what happens Cameron when you twist the scriptures.
Nicodemus had already asked that question "can a man go into his mothers womb and be born again?" Of course not! So Jesus is not speaking about the water that breaks at child birth, but of baptism. Nicodemus got it over 2000 years ago, why can't you?
It's because you've embraced false doctrine Cameron.
Listen to Jesus Cameron "marvel not what I told you, you MUST be born again" (vs.7).
Thank you so much for this video. My sister is part of the Church of Christ & my brother & I have talked back & forth with her for some time about this kind of stuff. When you brought up their ceni hermeneutic it all just lined up for me. Their rigid stance on so many things makes so much more sense now. Please be in prayer for her husband & herself to see the freedom we have in Jesus.
What freedom are you speaking of?
@@jmcc-lt3lk Probably the freedom to live like the world; LOL.
@@lindahutchens8612😂
@@DivineGoddessOnEarth Sorry, this emoji is so small I cannot tell what it means; please clarify.
I have a question about baptism from the point of view of the church of Christ.
Who is permitted to preform a baptism?
Would the local church minister be the only one allowed to preform said baptism.
Would elders or deacons be permitted?
Would any male member be permitted
How about a female?
According to the NT only God the Father chooses and baptises, ministers teach the gospel of salvation, and Romans is perfectly suitable as the gospel of salvation.
However I find no satisfactory Commentary of Romans, only ones that promote a certain doctrine, and show no independence.
DIY.
What i read is that a person can become a christian/saved and lose it.
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [and then have fallen away, to restore them again ]to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.. Heb.6:4-6
This scripture excerpt confirms once saved then lost. It is impossible to renew them again. The scripture refers to an unforgivable sin. Whomever puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not worthy of the Kingdom of God.
"The like figure to this, even baptism, doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ," 1 Peter 3:21. Baptism is NOT a work of man as it is so stated....it is a spiritual act of obedience by a penitent believer that places that person in a state of salvation, BY the work of God. After all, that's the whole purpose of Christ/God. If it were a work of man, then that person would simply be taking a bath getting clean, as a work of that nature would produce a practical earthly result. THAT is specifically refuted in the above scripture. ........ Note, the RESULT of the ACT OF GOD is ,,,,,,,, "doth also now save us".
You may want to study Church of Christs more. There is a non-instrumental branch and some who do use instruments. I grew up C of C and always used instruments.
There are two branches. The non-instrumentals go by "church of Christ" which I cover here. Wikipedia article on them is here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churches_of_Christ
There is also, as you mention, an instrumental group, which I don't have a video about, which also comes from the restoration movement. Many churches there are also called "church of Christ", like the one you attended. However, the two groups don't generally mix together. The wikipedia article that refers to the church you were a part of is here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_churches_and_churches_of_Christ
Unfortunately, not everyone who calls themselves the Churches of Christ follows the apostle's doctrine. A Pope in the 7th century authorized the use of mechanical instruments.
The word a capella means in the style of the chapel.
Hollo
..that more conservative group finally split from the liberal Disciples of Christ in the 1960s, when it formally accepted mainline denominational status...although many had been distancing themselves for decades...they are generally called "Christian Churches", and sometimes "Church of Christ (Christian)"...now days most are indistinguishable from Evangelicals in practice or theology with a very weak or "low view" of the necessity of baptism...many even freely hire Baptist ministers...
I was church of christ with instruments and found out they followed the Christian church but went by CoC. I'm now Tradional CoC.
In my Church (U.P.C United Pentecostal Church) in India ,Mizoram women (females) wear head covering in (inside) the Church.
Im a baptised believer 1998 Henderson Church Of Christ I left Macedonia Baptist Church 1986 Longview Texas
Im Jeremy Scott McGuire Of Gladewater Texas
Although many Baptist argue that baptism isn't necessary for salvation, they will also argue that to not be baptized is not obeying God and this will keep one from salvation.
"Faith only" theology is anything but consistent...
@@anarchorepublican5954 was the thief on the cross baptized
@@danielmoore8538 ..💦why not?...ALL the confessing sinners of Judea and Jerusalem came to John to be Baptized (Matt 3:5; Mark 1:5)...if "ALL" means "ALL"-why not the thief amongst them "ALL"?.
..in fact, we are told.. Jesus's disciples baptized even more sinners than John did(John 4:1,2)...
Ever ask yourself how did the Thief seem to know the Kingdom Message so well?? (Luke 23:40-42)...the only way.. he had to have heard Jesus or John preach "repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand!"...the Thief clearly knew that Gospel message, and also the personage and character of Jesus... a bitter, and backsliden wayward disciple..meeting his Master on the cross...
Sorry to disappoint ...but frankly, that's a poor proof text...and it was never the normative way of becoming a New Testament Christian.. regardless. baptized, or not both, the Thief, and His Lord Jesus, died that day as Old Testament Jews..not New Testament Christians...so the Thief is entirely irrelevant..
There is no Baptist church or any other denomination in the bible, The church of Christ is the only church that was purchased with the blood of Christ. Matt. 16:18, Acts 20:28, Romans 16:16. The Lords adds to the church after repentance and baptism. Acts 2:38-47.
Enjoy your channel
I've seen many old Original Puritan Churches in New England ( Massachusetts ) are listed " Church of Christ ". These Churches seen quite Liberal compared to the more Conservative Baptist. Thanks.
It's definitely in name only. Puritan theology is strongly Calvinistic, while the church of Christ is strictly against most of the teachings of Calvinism, for example predestination, original sin, limited atonement, and the perseverance of the saints.
@@me73941 Yes, I agree. By 2006, I was extremely interested in joining a Protestant Church. In younger years, I became a KJV Bible Reader ( Liked Shakespeare - English ) as a " Believing ' Roman Catholic. Became fallen - paid the price. But for the Grace of God through Jesus Christ, I returned to reading & studying the Bible & Biblical History; this included the History of Catholicism, the Reformation and Development of various Churches & ' Faiths '. I was extremely impressed with the Early Massachusetts Pilgrims & Puritans and read some of their outstanding Preachers, their Papers and Commentaries upon the True meaning/Original meaning of Scripture. Where I lived there was a Old Congregational Church ( 1724 ) - the second one built near the current center of town. The original is gone - the school house still exists - and was built just off the Charles River - site is still in the ' Sticks '. So, I decided to embark with this Church - Closest & within walking distance from the house. A too long a story : I attended a Bible Study. Despite being new there was constant drifting & differences according to the Word ? Eventually, the Pastor looked at me and asked those present - about 25/30 attendees: How many people read their Bible in the Morning ? I was the only one who raised my hand. Not long after that, I was dismissed/asked to leave. I surely left. I seem to be more Calvinist than Lutheran or ' New Age ".
@@benjaminrush4443 Asked to leave a church for reading your Bible?!!! Well, seems as though the Great Apostasy is neverending.
@@me73941 My responses to the discussion concerning the Gospel Message was that I didn't question the Scriptures and didn't go along with the " New Age " Interpretations that were not making sense. I was just a novice - still am at times. God Bless. In Jesus' Name. Amen.
Denominations: Satan and his ministers are busy teaching error 2 Cor 13:11-15. Imagine if Paul preached the true and original doctrine of the early church of Christ but the 12 apostles taught denominational doctrines i.e. Catholicism, Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, JW, Seventh Day Adventist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Nazarene, Mennonite.
They would have had the same right to teach those doctrines then if they are correct now. But they are not right now so they would not have been right then. Can you see denominations in the Bible? What is a denomination then? It is a doctrine devised by man which has no biblical authority. Eph 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Saviour of the body". If the Lord is the saviour of His church, who is the saviour of the denominations? Eph 4:4 just says is was one body.
Jude 3:3 "Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints".
S G Praise God for the church He purchased with His own blood; Acts 20:28 and the churches of Christ salute you (Romans 16:16).
far 2 many don't bother to absorb the Holy Word of God.. as for music.. Psalms 150. 🤭
God bless you All
...doesn't the same Old Testament also command animal sacrifice; Temple worship; Sabbath day; a Priesthood; incense, etc. etc?... apparently some don't bother to "absorb" that...Jer 31:31-32
@@bspr9062 ...nice try, but no piano- not to mention no scripture to back up your argument...no where are Presbyters empowered to bind Old Testament worship ordinances (or any Worship rites) on the consciences of New Covenant believers, in particular gentiles...even the Apostles themselves were not (Acts 15:19, Col 2:16-17, Gal 2:14)...instrumental music doesn't get a "special pleading"- particularly when the OT is appealed to for supposed "authority"...
@@anarchorepublican5954 Matthew 5:17-20 😉
This is good but could have been longer and more in depth, especially on the Baptist side. But thanks
I am really surprised, how the understanding of "denomination" differs. In Germany we are asked for our "Konfession" and that is usually a group of what is considers a denominstion in English.
Probably all Baptist Groups, Churches would be considered one Konfession.
Now that I’ve concluded that he is Independent Baptist, here is my answer.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
A response which is a sad testimony of someone who has no concept of the work of God in regeneration. Once you do only then will you understand what is meant by, make the tree good and its fruit will be good and all your righteousness is like filthy rags.
James is talking to Christians and telling them how one acts as a Christian is to exemplify themselves thru works. He does not they are unsaved at anytime. He says your faith is dead. You act like yr in the old flesh. And iif look closer its how one treats people. That you are to be kind to them.
...Ahhhhh???...well you see in that particular inspired inerrant Book of James) ...Works means Works- Works always means Works ...but "faith" doesn't mean Faith ..."only" doesn't mean (Faith)Only and "saved" certainly doesn't mean Saved...James is referring to the small "f'" faith-lite (which cannot save) and small "s" saved -lite ...which is nothing about being Saved ...there now see how simple that was ...now there are no contradictions with "Faith-Only" ...which is the New Testament's main theme...although the two words only appear together in James ...
@@anarchorepublican5954 I don't buy that parsing. Show me one Biblical example of someone being convert without including baptism.
@@michaelbarclay5016 ...You know...come to think of it...that particular parsing of James does ...sound a bit, arbitrary, disingenious, and doubtful..not to mention quite convenient ....hardly an interpretation "Justified" ...might be the precise theological term...particularly given the Context...
...the various one cup/loaf; no Sunday school; head coverings; fermented wine congregations are very rare...almost extinct
Not so extinct. Many congressions with one loaf, one cup, etc. My dad is a preacher of such. He's 95.
@@baconbap ..interesting...I always wanted to visit one...do you know in which state are the most? ...and how are they handling covid?...
@@baconbap ...turns out I got a chance to visit a (one cup) Church of Christ in Oregon...one of my hometowns...nice Brethren.....it had been there for years about a dozen or so members (mostly one family)...turns out the church met in a rented store... front just a block from where I once lived...I just never drove down that street...and as far as they were concerned "Covid Blovid"...🍷
Baptism is an outward reflection to your peers of a inward change in your heart. Salvation begins with repentance and acceptance by faith in Jesus Christ as lord who died was buried and rose again!!
Ready to Harvest does a great job explaining denominations in a very clear and concise way. However, there are points that need to be surveyed as a critical look into the churches of Christ.
FIRST, regarding musical instruments - Israel had directives from the LORD clearly stated in Psalm 33:1-3:
1Sing joyfully to the Lord, you righteous;
it is fitting for the upright to praise him.
2 Praise the Lord with the harp;
make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.
3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.
Music with "skillful" musicians and their instruments are a gift from God and is seen in the Old Testament as a way of praise and worship. Whether the story that the newly formed churches of Christ couldn't afford expensive organs (at the time) is truly debatable, but to say that because there's no mention of instruments in the New Testament, and then make that doctrine seems antithetical and a sort of "unhitching" to the Old Testament. Admittedly, acapella music is amazing and a favorite (for me), but it's not delineated well in the churches of Christ as a preference, not a God-given mandate.
SECOND, regarding who is actually IN the body of Christ for those attending other "denominations," their answer is usually not a YES or NO. Many church members of Christ say, "We don't judge. That's only for God." When pressing for a yes or no answer, you won't get one. They'll also question, "Why did your church choose that name?" e.g. Redeemer, Celebration, Hill Country Bible Church, etc. - church names go on and on. In the NT, there's mention of the church called "the church of God" but it's overlooked by church of Christ members when they press about church names.
Born-again believers (throughout history) are IN the body of Christ, but somehow the church of Christ complicates a simple question. This is a Sunday school teaching from the c of C: czcams.com/video/fU8ChTQkoBE/video.html
THIRD, regarding spiritual warfare and the idea of contending with the Enemy, you'll commonly hear, "Satan was defeated in the Garden of Eden. You have nothing to worry about." Some fail to see that there are clear directives in Scripture for believers as stated in Galatians 6:10-18 about "putting on the whole the Armor of God" and its direct relationship to battling the demonic even though we know, "the battle belongs to the Lord." Over and over, I heard from elders, a pastor, and devout members this line which was never helpful in any way.
Thank you for this video. Well done.
An "Independent Baptist vs What the Bible Actually Says" would be a cool vid to do.
the author of this channel is a funny mental baptist college professor, I'm sure he doesn't want to lose his job or go against the grain
Vinson- My question is just as practical as it can be. Let's say a person on the brink of dying. Like an old person in hospice. He repented of his sin and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as his Savior but died à short time moment after he proclaimed that he is repentant of his sin and understand that God loves him and sent His only Son to pay for his sin. Unfortunately, there is no water around to baptize him. Would he be lost and destined to hell for eternity?
Water baptism not necessarily in order to become save. The baptism every ones need it in order to become save is the baptism of the Holy Spirit in witch God Himself have to it , not our actions . Our actions can’t produce salvation, only God actions that’s count. May God give you understanding for His words 🙏🙏🙏
Great question: When Jesus hung on the Cross he was between two men also on crosses. We see throughout the Scriptures that the Father is in the dividing business. At Creation, darkness was divided by the sunlight as it still is today. The light was called day and darkness was called night.
Jesus repeated that light and darkness lesson to explain good and evil in John 11:9. Here Jesus was between a good man and an evil man. He turned to the good man and promised him eternal life. The only water there was the living water that only Jesus can provide.
In John chapter 3 Jesus said that we must be Born Again of the "Water" and the "Fire". Again we must drink the living water that only Jesus offered. At Pentecost, we read about the " Fire" which is the Holy Spirit. In the Book of John if read carefully it is clear the Father, Jesus, and the Spirit are to dwell on our temple (our entire body). The goal is to follow Jesus, the Father directed his words and actions. He listened and follow His Father's instructions for when, where, and what he was to do.
Becoming a servant instead of being served. I must know how to follow Jesus first before I can be a faithful servant. A leader is a person that leads by example. Don't tell someone to do something. Invite someone to walk with you as they watch your example.
Don't waste your time trying to become a great speaker. Read the Word of God in the Assembly. God has written the greatest love letter ever written to man. If a man preaches and stands holding the Bible and delivers his words what is he telling God? Answer: God you could have said this better? Or I can say it better? Do you carry your Bible to Church? Why? To look up 2 or 3 texts the pastor gives during a 40-minute sermon?
Don't follow any man of flesh, follow Jesus and ask a Hebrew what the words faith and belief mean. It is not head knowledge that our Greek/Roman culture teaches us. These words compel us to do something. Hebrew is very focused on doing vs Greek is heavy on head knowledge. Let try to find the middle of the road.
If there is water follow the example of Jesus.
Pray for the Spirit and the Living Water to refresh you each morning. We need to eat and drink every day. Being Born Again is not graduation is begins 1st grade. The graduation comes when we see Jesus at the Advent.
Blessing
@@sunmoonstars8471 I did not understand your long post. Can you simplify it?
Suppose he died just before he was going to believe. Focus on what the Bible says, not hypotheticals that will never happen.
@@soundpreacher Will never happen? I know people that trusted the Lord but never got baptized and died, personally. So it happened.
there's also a group that usually name their churches as "Christian Church" (no "Disciples of Christ") that also trace their root to Stone-Campbell movement.
Can I know which Church are you belong..!?
Churches of Christ do MANY things within their church services of which they have no command or example for. That's just a fact. Being someone who used to teach the prohibition of musical instruments and being someone who was a hardcore, die-hard church of christ follower, I can now see how utterly inconsistent we were with the CENI. They deny that they are inconsistent but the truth still remains. I do however still attend a church of christ but we DO use musical instruments. However, I believe in eternal security as well. Surprise! I also am tempted to believe that a person is justified by faith alone before water baptism however water baptism is certainly part of the conversion process of a Christian.
@@LuisArroyo1993 Yep. God in the flesh.
@Gary Johnson putting faith in hermeneutics to get truth, is man leaning to his own understanding. I am not saying it is not helpful as a discipline to not take things out of context, but i believe in the power of the Holy Spirit convicting us and leading us to all truth, not mens understanding and discipline in hermeneutics. I Believe the truth in the anointing we received by Gods grace in the truth of receiving Jesus by faith.
To say everyone that is of Jesus practices hermeneutics is false.
@@ProclaimeroftheGospelofJesus Here is the fact that Baptism, as being part of Salvation came from Christ himself on the Day of Pentecost. I refer to John 16 where Jesus is preparing the Apostles for His upcoming death. He said He would send the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to replace Him. The Holy Spirit would not speak for Himself but on what He heard Jesus say.
Fast forward a few days. In Acts 2 when the Apostles were in the room a sound like a mighty wind came from Heaven and each of them were filled with the Holy Spirit. When Peter spoke on that day he was speaking for himself but what the Holy Spirit told him to say. So when we reference back to John and the very words of Christ regarding the subject of Baptism, Christ Himself said it was necessary for salvation.
@@jamesstrohl2016 is it water baptism or that Jesus will baptize you in the Holy Spirit?
Matthew 3 makes this clear.
I believe we are water baptized because we have been forgiven and renewed by the Holy Spirit by faith in repentance and in receiving Jesus by way of the gospel of Jesus.
The word baptism is not always referring to a water baptism and matthew 3 makes this clear.
Peter remembered this is acts 10-11 with Cornelius.
Acts 10-
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
This clearly reveals water baptism because of salvation.
Acts 11-
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Matthew 3
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Think on this without any preconceived ideas, in truth.
I believe water baptism is required because of salvation, not for it.
We know Cornelius and His family repented by walking in fear of God and salvation was given when they heard the gospel and believed. Then they were water baptized in Jesus name.
I also am very much aware Peter was revealed that Gentiles are no different than the jews in Christ.
One Lord, One faith, One baptism.
What is the One Baptism?
22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
@@ProclaimeroftheGospelofJesus One has to always ask who is Jesus speaking too? Or having a conversation with. In the case of John, in Matthew 3, John was speaking to the Jews and about the coming of Christ. He was not speaking to the Gentiles. He was mainly addressing those Jews who Jesus would select to be His Disciples which we find out through the Gospels as well as in Acts1 and 2. These were the men to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Secondly, the Samaritans who had been baptized had not received one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit until the Apostles came down and gave one of them to them.
The Eunuch whom Phillip preached to knew that water was the key to his salvation. If it wasn't why did he stop the chariot when they came upon water. He said; “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?" If baptism was not needed for salvation then why did he have the chariot stopped?
Your quote; "We know Cornelius and His family repented by walking in fear of God and salvation was given when they heard the gospel and believed."
I am afraid you are wrong. They were a devout family but they were not granted salvation because they heard the Gospel. If this is true why did Peter say they could not hold water of baptism from them? They were already saved according to you.
You are confusing one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit that was given to them with the Gift of the Holy Spirit which can only be gotten by being baptized in water. Which is commanded by Jesus for salvation.
You are misunderstanding Ephesians 4. Paul is not talking to the Apostles he is talking to the Church at Ephesus. It was written to the Jews and Gentiles to prove that there wasn't any difference between them anymore.
Eph 4:3 being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. The theme is unity for the Body of Christ (the Church)
The one Baptism is what Peter Preached on the Day of Pentecost. Which this knowledge came from Jesus himself.
Your quote, "I believe water baptism is required because of salvation, not for it." If it is required, as you say, because of salvation, then if you don't do it how can you be saved. This is a requirement according to you.
If you don't do this requirement; "Are you not in rebellion against Jesus?" From my studying of those in rebellion against God it has never worked out to good for the rebellious party (i.e. Korah's rebellion.).
Having been in a church of Christ for 12 years, I haven't heard anyone teach that baptism for salvation is necessarily a *physical* requirement like if you are literally on your way to get baptized and died along the way, that God would reject you from Heaven. Rather, it's the necessary first step of faith to do it for the reasons scripture gives - otherwise the faith one may think they have is not a legitimate faith in Christ who attached all of these promises directly to baptism. The mere immediate pursuit of it is taught as necessary, not the physical arrival at it (because God is merciful to those that pursue His Truth), although if you are lenient on the timing of that pursuit of baptism rather than immediate, that may disqualify from having a legitimate saving faith. Hoping that clears up the position, and this was only intended to be informative, not argumentative.
I suppose I actually have heard from some very grumpy people the idea that "Well, God gave you time to repent and be baptized well before then, so if you were on your way and died, God would be justified in sending you to Hell!" but I feel this is more rare or at least reserved to some very hardheaded folks I've heard just a couple times. It's God's decision of who to save based on His own right to frame His terms however He says it is.
You need to read your scriptures.
@@trebmaster How many people were saved in the days of Noah?
...in other words for the unBaptized but deceased ...CoC lets God be God ...
but for the living and unBaptized ...it is a clear Biblical command necessary and most blessed...reserved for the truly faithful and repentant...
@@baconbap ...hahahaha
Dude... When it comes to reading the Scriptures... Church of Christ folks will eat your bacon...
The “some” statements are extremely rare that they are almost not worthy noting.
One failing of this video is that it explains the thought, reasoning or scripture behind why the coC believes one way, but rarely explains why the Baptists believe the other.
Legalism runs rampant in the Church today. Thank God I have not attended church in decades.
as a man genuinely identifying as a believer in God and Jesus, I can tell you your comment is the most sensible and accurate on here..
...don't worry ...no one is missing you either
jvolstad Forsake not the assembly; you may call it legalism but it is in the word of God for he wants us to encourage one another. Don't you need encouragement? If you attended the church of Christ and for some reason didn't like it, try another one since each are autonomous. You may find another that is more loving. We all need each other; for each one of us builds up the body of Christ, Have a blessed day.
@@lindahutchens8612 lovely way of explaining it.
When our human mind overtakes the divine mind, we tend to go to the "legalism reason" for refuge. If Jesus were still here preaching, how many people would say to Him "You embrace legalism"? Have we ever thought that maybe what we consider legalistic is actually the word of God.
Baptists need to read this: By grace and faith alone? See: James 2:14-22 KJV: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Michael,I believe you're my brother in Christ! My name is Richard Rhoden from Muscle Shoals,Alabama. I worship at Cox Blvd. c of C in nearby Sheffield,Alabama. Saw your postings in other clips. God has given me the opportunity to tell people about salvation,worship and Jesus's one true church here on CZcams. I love you in the Lord and keep serving Him. Richard
Very interesting video and topic.
I was in the Boston Church of Christ for 15 years, I joined because I had a miraculous healing during the fellowship time of the first service I want to. One problem I had in the was I never felt secure in my salvation the whole time I was in the BCoC. I visited a KJV only Baptist Church and they said I had to believe my Father is burning in hell right now. I said "But what if he had a death bed conversion that I don't about" and they just laughed. Now I go to a 12 step program and practice Buddhism. I find striking similarities between Christianity and Buddhism. What say you?
I say you should prove what is taught by your own study and prayer and meditating on the scriptures. Jesus is true, even if every man is a liar.
Long time (decades) Church of Christ and now Independent Christian Church minister (diff being a band on Sunday, pure and simple!). I'm so glad you got out of the Boston movement. Some of my relatives haven't. Very abusive bunch at one time. A 'King Jim Only' church of ANY kind seems like frying pan into the fire. Sorry for the comments about your father. Answers do not (read: DO NOT) come from what any person thinks or says. They only come about through the reading of Scripture, and even then two folks can come away with a different conclusion and both still be right. That's the message of Romans 14:1-15:7. Not on all matters, mind you, for God has been clear about answering the Gospel call, the many 'there is one...' of Ephesians 4, etc. On the question about the similarities between Jesus and Buddha, I have extensively read the collected teachings of religions including Mormonism, Shrimadh Bhagvad Gita, Catholic mythology, Bahá'í, Koran, Buddhism, and the Jehovah's Witness rendition of the Bible. God's Word, when all the smoke clears, is the only one that gives the reader true hope. Only one that can give surety of salvation to the seeker. Only one that answers more queries than it raises. Don't set your Bible too far off to the side. Take the time to really, truly, study what God is trying to say to you. I've seen die hard atheists--my wife being one many years ago--try to read it to debunk it only to wind up taking in the message. Have a great journey, my friend! God has way more patience than we do.
@Kenneth McRae If the church is not important why did he purchase the church with His own body; Acts 20:28?
@@Over-for-now Since you asked me directly, I'll answer you--not with what I believe, but with what Scripture states: Jesus, on the cross, said of His work, "It is finished," found in Jno 19:30. He wasn't talking about His time on the cross, but of His mission here on earth. 3x in Hebrews (1:3; 10:12; 12:2), the inspired writer states that 'Jesus sat down at the RH of God.' Here's the symbology: a working priest will be standing, as in the Holy of Holies while a finished, or completed priest, after carrying out whatever task, will sit down. Jesus is clearly our High Priest. Sitting down at the RH of God is....well...Divinity.
Not sure why you asked after reviewing my entry from last year.
I attend a Church of Christ. I know of a few one-cup congregations and have visited one. I have also visited a 'mutual edification' congregation, in which there is no hired preacher and that responsibility is circulated among the men. Never saw a 'head covering' group, but when I was very young some women would sometimes wear hats in the sanctuary, but the guys would hang theirs on the hat hooks. The main distribution is between 'mainstream' and 'non-institutional'. Mainstream have no problem with congregational financial support of institutions (church orphan homes, etc.) and NI will not do that as a group effort. The ME group I visited used fermented wine as opposed to the usual un-fermented. There is a small group of congregations that are pre-millenial, but most are a-millennial. I haven't seen too many independent baptist churches around my home, but I have lived in cities where there were a few. There is a small group of Churches of Christ/Christian Churches. Only the name seems different. They will use instrumental music in worship. I drove by a couple in Virginia. I like the restorationist idea, but am not too big on the ceni.. X's necessary is not always Y's. I'll not be holding doctrine on someone's idea, thank you😀 You did a good job.
The CENI way of doing things might seem like it makes a lot of sense, but it is impossible to actually apply consistently: Do CoC people wear shoes? Shoes aren't mentioned in the New Testament, so shouldn't they only wear sandals? What about having electric lights in the place of worship? Shouldn't they be restricted to oil lamps? What about hymnals other than the Book of Psalms? They don't appear in the NT, so are CoC brothers and sisters going against the Bible if they use hymnals? What about personal or individual copies of the Bible, which didn't exist? You get the picture. To go as far as, "there are no musical instruments in the NT worship so having a piano is evil," but to not apply the same standard to every other aspect of life and worship is being highly inconsistent.
I also always want to ask CoC people: "Was the penitent thief on the cross beside Christ doomed because he didn't get baptized?" And if anyone wants to answer that the requirement only applies to those who have a choice, remember that CoC doctrine states that the physical act of going into and coming out of the water *is* the very process and action of salvation. It's not just that God sees your obedience in baptism and therefore allows the grace of Christ to you. No, baptism *is* the very thing that makes salvation happen. So there is no room for someone to receive salvation if it is not physically possible to be baptized.
Baptism did not apply to the thief because it was pre-resurrection. Christ often absolved sin pre-resurrection and no one has a problem with this. Baptism is post resurrection and to receive the Holy Spirit. Which was the baptism John said Christ was going to perform. Additionally, the idea that baptism in the NT is a work, is a completely foreign to the text and is a gross misunderstanding propagated via Calvinism. The idea that the flesh, which biblically speaking is one-half of the soul, the other half being the spirit, takes no part in salvation and that salvation is purely some sort of subjective spiritual experience is Gnosticism. If baptism is only a public display of obedience, as many often teach, then making it optional is teaching people to live in open disobedience. It’s irrational and is a bigger burden then just listening to the teachings of Christ’s apostles as recorded in the NT.
@@aluminumchew ,
1) I notice you didn't address the first section of my comment. Are you conceding that issue?
2) How were pre-resurrection saints saved (including the penitent thief) if, even post resurrection, baptism is a required element of salvation? Yes, Jesus regularly forgave sins during His pre-resurrection ministry. So? Is Him saying to the woman caught in adultery, "Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more," to be taken to imply she was "saved" or merely that her specific sins were forgiven, but she was still fully responsible for her future sins just like everyone else? If she, and others like her, are to be considered *saved,* then this proves Christ is able to save without the person getting baptized. If she and others like her are to be considered *unsaved* with just specific sins forgiven, then how did pre-resurrection saints end up saved? Yes Christ took many righteous Old Testament saints up to Heaven as part of His victory over the grave, but did He stop on the way up and insist Abraham be baptized first? Abraham was judged as righteous before God because the faith of belief. This is what the New Testament teaches about Abraham. If Abraham eventually made it to Heaven (which surely he did) then he did so without ever getting dunked in water in formal baptism. So, likewise, the penitent thief who died pre-resurrection was in the same boat. He eventually made it to Heaven, but was never baptised. Thus, baptism is not a *necessary* part of salvation, even if it is vital to the obedience of one who is *already* saved and has an opportunity.
3) No one ever said baptism is "optional." There is a difference between saying that "baptism is not involved with the action of salvation itself but is necessary for obedience," and saying it is "optional." Do you think "Baptists" teach that the Biblically-mandated ordinance of baptism is an "optional" act? Do you suppose we teach that obedience to Christ is "optional" for the Christian?
Many denominations believe as the Independent Baptist do. Baptism not necessary for Salvation and once in Grace always in Grace. However the Bible doesn't say that.
When referring to the Day of Pentecost it is plain how one is redeemed. The next to the last step is Baptism by immersion.
Here is the fact that Baptism, as being part of Salvation came from Christ himself on the Day of Pentecost. I refer to John 16 where Jesus is preparing the Apostles for His upcoming death. He said He would send the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to replace Him. The Holy Spirit would not speak for Himself but on what He heard Jesus say.
Fast forward a few days. In Acts 2 when the Apostles were in the room a sound like a mighty wind came from Heaven and each of them were filled with the Holy Spirit. When Peter spoke on that day he was speaking for himself but what the Holy Spirit told him to say. So when we reference back to John and the very words of Christ regarding the subject of Baptism, Christ Himself said it was necessary for salvation.
"Once in Grace always in Grace" Paul destroyed that idea in Romans 1. Not only did Paul say that those who practice those items were not going to make it to Heaven but those who support those who practice those things would not make it either.
These things come from the very word of God. How can one interpret it any other way. It is blunt and for anyone to use different passages to say otherwise is taking them out of context.
The final step in Salvation is obedience to the word of God which is the will of the Father. How does one no this? Read about the Churches in Revelation.
Can the blood of Jesus wash away one's sins without water? It seems to me the answer is "yes". Or, you who come to the Lord and ask for forgiveness and cleansing, do you also use water when you do that? I believe there is also a washing, a cleansing by the word of God which we hear, receive, and believe, and when that happens to us, we usually are not in any actual H2o at the time.
The like figure whereunto even baptism does also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 1st Peter 3:21
@@JxT1957 Baptism is a response to salvation- not the cause of it. Peter says it isn't the water that cleanses the body that redeems but turning to God by believing the Gospel. In Acts 10, Peter points to the gentiles and proclaims that they should not be denied Baptism because they had received The Holy Ghost. That doesn't happen unless somebody is saved.
@@alicegriffin8545 and now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16
Both have changed the Sbabath to Sunday.
God is good
all the time
Independant baptist believe water baptism is required because of salvation only found in the work of Jesus baptizing us in the Holy Spirit, the washing of the water of the Word. Jesus is the living water and John said i indeed baptized you with water to repent for forgiveness of sins, but He that comes after me, He baptizes you in the Holy Spirit and fire. We believe water baptism is a example of what we have already put our faith in. The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. To be water baptized in His name is because we have repented and believed the gospel of Jesus.
Peter made it clear with cornelius, how could i keep him from water baptism in Jesus name when He understood the Holy Spirit was poured out on them when they heard the gospel of Jesus for remission of sin.
So repentance and belief was made known when they seen the gifts of the Holy Spirit in them as was with the disciples.
In acts 11, Peter said, who am i to contend with what God did.
He said He remembered what the Lord said, John baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Why did Peter make mention of this and remember this?
Two reasons: That Gentiles are one in Christ with the Jews, and that we will be baptized by Jesus in the Holy Spirit.
Many church of Christ deny this and say it was only for the chosen apostles and ignore this truth and put all confidence in water baptism fir salvation, rather than the baptism Jesus gives us, which is His blood cleansing us from all sin according to the washing of the Word of God( what God proclaims and we believe by faith) and the renewing of our Spirit by the working of the Holy Spirit given to us. A reborn Spirit.
As a independant baptist i believe water baptism is very important and should be done because we are saved by Gods grace through faith, however i do not believe it is what saves us, only Jesus saves us because we repent to believe in Jesus.
Titus 3:5
Amen! Baptism doesn't wash away nor forgive sins. It shows that à person is truly saved and want to follow Christ.
@@onthego41 Where is the scripture that says baptism doesn't wash away nor forgive sins and shows that a person is truly saved and want to follow Christ? Read Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16 for the what happens is baptism.
@@lindahutchens8612 Read John 3:16. Did it say baptism?
@lindahutchens8612 Are you asking for exact wording that you want?
In that case where is a verse that says Salvation is through baptism?
The act of baptism is to demonstrate, express, show, or prove that we truly believed and not just by word because we cannot see the motive of the people. Anyone can claim they believe in Jesus or His teaching but later deny it. In context of the Jewish and Greecian, it is not enough that they agree on the teaching but wholeheartedly accept it that they are willing to submit in baptism to show their real intent. John the Baptist baptized those who truly repent. Those do not repent he rebuked to show fruit of repentance first.
Everyone who got baptized trusted and believed Jesus and His teachings. It is a great deal to be baptized in those days. It means you are forsaking your religion and beliefs and embracing Jesus and His teachings. So when the verses showing "repent and be baptized" shows its in the context of repentance and believing Jesus and His teachings. It is never to be part of salvation but rather showing you accept the salvation and therefore you are repenting, believing, forsaking your old beliefs and going to the new way. That symbolized washing or cleansing and being new.
We are saved by grace and NOT of works. Baptism is a work. Believing is inner working of the Holy Spirit. Our outward actions shows that there is change are praying, uttering our need to repent and baptism. In salvation all you need is mind that understand the message and heart (not physical) believe. So thief on the cross got saved without getting baptized. He expressed his belief and acceptance of Jesus in a different way. By confessing and asking Jesus.
The Bible teaches that you need to be baptized for the remission of sin Acts 2:38
Cornelius and the Gentiles with him were saved before they were water baptized.
Beginning from the NT Church:
a. If one has been "given" the Holy Spirit he/she abides in God = is saved (1 John 4:13).
b. These Gentiles were "given" the Holy Spirit before they were water baptized (Acts 11:17; 15:8).
c. Therefore, these Gentiles were saved before they were water baptized.
@@fredrolinners8903 no they were not
@@mikeselsvik8357 You ignored the evidence I supplied because it refutes your heresy.
Thanks for making that easy for me.
I hope that we should not be looking for a religion but relationship with Jesus. At the of this, when we appear before Jesus he will not ask about where domination we belong too. (Correct me if I am wrong)
...perhaps not... but Jesus might ask if you believed and obeyed Him when He said (John 3:5 & Mark 16:16)
i have lost all confidence in the visible church because God allows goats among the sheep
Ephesians 5:7 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.....7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Amen am thinking of joining church of christ am from the Pentecostal denomination
Is the church you're in founded by Christ or man made?
czcams.com/video/DmiH89xWZ0Q/video.html
@@mapleleaf3803 its both christ uses man to establish his church
Congratulations
Pls Found the church of Christ near you
@@ekualejonathanosalenkhor936 thank you I did find one
Warning. They are legalistic and do not believe in the INDWELLING Holy Spirit and certainly not the Baptism of the Spirit. Also, they insist they are the only ones saved. Some border on cult tendencies.
Up until the 1970s the only difference between the two was a piano, choir and baptism for membership. We are MILES apart now.
im a independent baptist
my sincere condolences
@@anarchorepublican5954 Why?
@@onthego41 ...the Truth for starters...
@@anarchorepublican5954 you are the only one who has it right?
@@anarchorepublican5954 ........the truth for starters......once again a short but sweet comment; keep them coming!!!!