Why the Sweeper Is Taking Over MLB | Baseball Bits
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- čas přidán 26. 05. 2023
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Sweeper. Sweeper. Sweeper. Turn on any MLB broadcast, and you’ll probably hear that word dropped at least once. What is a sweeper? Well, it’s a variation of a slider that is now its own separate new pitch type. The truth is, pitchers like Dave Stieb and Sergio Romo have always thrown what we now consider to be sweepers, the name just hadn’t stuck yet.
But this episode of Baseball Bits, a Foolish Baseball production, is much more than a simple sweeper explainer. Because to understand the rise of the sweeper, we must also understand the history of pitch tracking. The pitch tracking era began in 2008, continued with Trackman Statcast, and is now handled by Statcast Hawkeye. Hawk-eye in particular is key to to this story, as it lead to confirmation of the seam shifted wake effect. Seam-shifted wake is fundamental to understanding the sweeper grip and sweeper seam orientation.
Some pitchers who have popularized the pitch include Blake Treinen, Evan Phillips, Clay Holmes, Michael King, Mitch Keller, Yu Darvish, and Shohei Ohtani. The Shohei Ohtani Sweeper vs Mike Trout certainly stands out among all sweeper moments. Everyone was tuning in to the Ohtani vs Trout World Baseball Classic matchup. I hope you’ll enjoy the video!
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Alan Nathan on Freddy Garcia’s Splitter: baseball.physics.illinois.edu/...
Seam-Shifted Wake Zoom: baseballaero.com/2020/11/16/s...
Not Just About Magnus Anymore: www.baseballprospectus.com/ne...
Darvish on Sweeper: sports.yahoo.com/hes-throwing...
The Sweeper Has Problems: theathletic.com/4410264/2023/...
Soundtrack by William Kage: williamkage.com/
Use code FOOLISH50 to get 50% off your first Factor box at bit.ly/3IsnN7U
don’t let this distract the fact that bartolo colon hit the greatest homer of all time
I'm going to Hawaii this summer for 2 weeks and factor has been a great support
LET HIM COOK!
Food looks fine. Your apartment looks lonely.
Babe wake up new pitch just dropped
babe. babe. they're calling it the sweeper.
Hey babe, come back
BABE COME BACK
NO BABE I LOVE YOU!
@@evanwetzel9721 slurve drops a lot more
In the Wii version of the 2009 Little League World Series video game, there was a regular curveball pitch button, but if you hooked the controller a certain way it would turn into a “sweeping curve.”
About time the big leagues caught up with what 12 and 13 year olds have been throwing for over a decade
Given the age of most baseball players, it may even be plausible that that edition on the Nintendo Wii when they were kids has led to pitchers who are more willing to experiment with their grip. looking to replicate that effect
the "sweeping curve" has absolutely been in both MLB 2K and MLB The Show longer than that. could come from video games in general
@@Kitt_the_Katt i really wanna call this a reach...but fuck it..2023
@@turomilen2944 video games are stupid af
Yeah, I remember in MLB The Show as far back as 2009, there was a slider and sweeping slider option for pitcher arsenals. There was also a running fastball, which was ungodly broken until they rebalanced it around the 2018 edition I think.
This may be the most physics heavy video you have ever published and I for one am absolutely here for it. So cool.
Glad you enjoyed! Hopefully it doesn't turn too many people off.
Personally i think the ' look over here zoomer ' stats people enjoy an observation like this,niche and interesting enough but approachable too, also glad ur all good after ur channel was hacked, musta been tough
@@FoolishBaseball It turned me on!
Go find a thin paperback published 20-25 years back entitled "The Physics of Baseball". I have one. It's very technical, but has a lot of conclusory data in it that's helpful to laypersons.
@@FoolishBaseball I think its great! I'm curious to see if physics simulations will ever lead to a new pitch being invented. (Instead of studying an existing pitch, using the simulation to discover some interesting movement and then work out how to throw it.) That seems to be the way things are heading. But at the same time....how many more interesting effects can a baseball still be hiding?
I find it fascinating how pitches are now being named not only based on their speed differentials or grip, but also their newly discovered spin rates/axes. Like how many pitchers historically can we identify as throwing a sweeper or a gyro slider but just didn’t feel like they needed to distinguish it from a regular slider. I also wonder whether this distinction between sweepers, regular sliders, cutters, and gyro sliders will separate the slider as it’s own category of pitch with tons of variations like fastball, off speed, or curveball.
Could definitely see "slider" becoming the basis for a pitch with multiple variation like "fastball" (e.g. four-seam vs sinker vs cutter)
@@FoolishBaseball speaking of fastballs, i never hear “2 seam” anymore. are they all considered sinkers?
@@FoolishBaseball Honestly. I could just see them calling it a good, hard slider. Some guys are better at pitches than others - that's why they're elite. I'm not sure if they will always need that kind of distinction.
@@nate_storm They've more or less become interchangeable, they're thrown the same way. Some people call more horizontal pitches two seamers and vertical ones sinkers.
@@nate_storm it’s the same pitch, the two terms can be used interchangeably. I think in the past the term sinker was used more when it was a 2-seamer down low. But as far as I know they are the same
It's really funny to see this video, because a big talking point in NPB circles rn is how the sweeper is getting crushed atm.
Some pitchers tried to add it to their arsenal but they can't seem to get it to break right, and NPB batters are having a field day with it.
It'll ebb and flow for sure. Made sure to note that the sweeper is already a thing in NPB and that it definitely has its shortcomings in MLB.
feels like NPB has always been a step ahead of MLB when it comes to new pitches. we're now seeing an upward trend in splitters, sweepers, forkballs and other related pitches, that have been present in japan for a solid 10 to 20 years atp
@@greatdays3584 splitters have always been a thing in the NBP though. The sweeper not working the same way there might be more about the style of baseball. Hitters are more disciplined and contact oriented and there are more control than power pitchers, historically a lot of super crafty control guys with a lot more variety in arm angles. Especially the kind of low arm angles that produce big sweepers. The different and smaller baseball they use might play a role too
@@greatdays3584 didn't Daisuke have the gyro ball back in like 2005?
@@FoolishBaseball That's why it's time to release the knuckleball again. Hitters won't be ready. Fans in the outfield stands will need to being gloves for when the pitcher has an off day.
mentioning Dave Stieb in the first two minutes -> guaranteed engagement
This might be your best video yet. I’m excited in 5 years for the sequel when a 12-6 curveball gets renamed a Hammer or some shit like that
I actually like that name for the 12-6 curve haha
@@josephserenson166 people call it that just like people called sliders with lateral movement sweeping sliders before they were sweepers
I'll remember this comment in 5 years when this eventually comes true.
Joe Ryan adding his sweeper has been so beneficial for him this year. Big reason why he’s been dominating
Yup. Splitter has been dominant too.
"A pitch isn't a pitch until Yu Darvish throws one" 14:46 . That made me laugh out loud.
It's a bit weird, to me a slider always implied sideways movement, that's how i remember it being explained in the early 90s. But okay since we can now exactly measure the vertical/horizontal movement, i get it that they wanna divide it in two subcategories.
Something else to remember is that sometimes regular sliders can appear to have lots of horizontal movement, but only bc they’re throwing across the body (example: right handed pitcher throwing his slider towards the left handed batter’s box). Now we have all the technology, we can see how much of that movement is because of its spin, and now much is just location.
@@bryanzzz748 yeah good point and the camera angle can probably make it appear different as well.
Yes, but something with today's sweeper that is unprecedented is that there's far more break and movement on average than ever before. A great slider in the 90s is not a great slider in 2023.
I know mostly all sports can be this way, but this type of video really showcases how much of a fine art Baseball is, especially the pitching aspect. I think batting can be an art too, but pitching is just so fine tuned, and to see how much players can vary from year to year and throughout their career is absolutely insane. It's fascinating and very cool to see.
Someone who really has been throwing the sweeper for awhile that no one talks about enough is Adam Ottavino. His “slider” has so much horizontal movement and so much gyro spin from the naked eye, however glad to see the sweeper is coming back.
I feel like Ottavino doesn’t get talked about enough in terms of how many pitches he has in his arsenal
Sweeper? I hardly know her
Kevin Brown was robbed of multiple Cy Youngs and should be in the hall of fame
And then I said "that's no sweeper! that's my wife!"
These puns are too punny
Thank you for the Sergio Romo call out..... watching him throw that sweeping slider was always a beauty!
Especially since he had just highlighted the Dodgers. Made my night to hear that Don't You Dare Disregard Sergio Romo call! He was so much fun to see pitch.
Twins throwing a lot of sweepers is probably a good sized piece of the puzzle behind their improved starting pitching. Joe Ryan’s especially. Love it.
Really impressive that, even with variable movement, Hendricks could still rely on primarily that pitch.
Glad he's back to pitching with the Cubs
I would have put the odds of a Dave Stieb mention on Foolish Baseball at about 1 in 241 million.
dave stieb appearance, you love to see it
I feel insane because i always thought a slider was a pitch that swept across the plate. I thought "wipe-out slider" just meant that Randy Johnson had a really good one. Never thought of a slider as a sinking pitch.
Same here. What makes a "slider" with several inches of downward movement and barely any gloveside movement different from a curveball?
The sweeper is so successful for Keller not only because of the movement but the drop in velocity. He was throwing the power slider that’s been so popular for so long and now that he’s ticked down slightly in velo and added a fastball that has break (2 seam/sinker) he’s become the pitcher he looked like he would be all through out his time in the minors
“Though all pitchers suffer high rates of injury regardless of arsenal”
This reminds me, I desperately need a Foolish Baseball video about the knuckleball. Awesome video!
I knew you’d eventually contribute to Dave Stieb’s HOF case and then follow up with a good lesson on the sweeper.
It's absolute travesty he's not in the HOF
Im glad the pitch that made me go from a 5.6 era to 1.9 era in high school is getting recognition
Pitchers were throwing this pitch since the '1960s. The slider was always understood to be a horizontal breaking pitch since it was invented. This is like Columbus landing in the Caribbean and said he discovered it even though people were living there for thousands of years.
Exactly. This generation of people is honestly the worst by a very, very, very large margin.
@@HT-sm9dm Do we need to bring up *that* can of worms on this video?
Seriously it’s so dumb. They’re literally just throwing sliders
@@xSoyPeanut it’s the same thing as velocity and spin rate now. They’re trying to make it look as if every team’s worst middle reliever has better stuff than Pedro Martinez, Sandy Koufax? Randy Johnson, Dwight Gooden, Greg Maddux and Kevin Brown combined on their best day ever pitching. It’s such a sad state of affairs honestly.
Supposedly “evolution” is the cause for this giant uptick in performance. Because 2 decades ago human beings were just learning how to make tools out of stone and communicating by using grunts and basic sign language. In the past 20 years human beings evolved at an astronomical rate never seen by any species on this planet before.
@@emmanuelwood8702 I wasn't even talking about your comment. I was talking about the guy seconding you.
Cool story time. Before I had a pitching coach teach me a proper slider, I threw a slider using the exact same grip clay Holmes is using, and it was effective for me when I was a kid. I don’t know how 11 year old me was intuitive enough to know about Seam-shifting, but it was one of the most recognized pitches in the league I played in
And then everyone on the field unleased buckets of semen
Same! Except I was in high school. I threw a slider and knew it didn't break like a normal slider but didn't know enough to define what it was. I called it my "tailing slider" anytime someone asked about it. Couldn't throw a curveball to save my life but that pitch was my go to and got a lot of swinging misses outside of the zone.
You would've made the league uncle Rico
I didn't have a strong arm and my fastballs were like throwing batting practice, so I had to be creative to stay on the team and figured out a wicked slow airbender. I mix it up with another slow knuckle curve. Every one knew I was throwing slow stuff but they couldn't hit it. That was 30 years ago. I guess I was inspired by my terrible golf swing that slices from one edge of the fairway to another!
I threw a 2 seamer that moved the same way the splitter in the video did and I never knew why. It was very inconsistent tho and I don't pitch anymore.
As a former hitter, I think the side to side break is more effective now because swings have changed.
Batters keep much more weight on their back foot making it easier to adjust to vertical movement but much harder to adjust to horizontal movement
I never pitched after 12u baseball but as a catcher in warmups I would always play around with grips. My throwing partners were always mesmerized by my slider that had insane horizontal break. Of course I had what’s now known as the wake shift grip. Pretty cool to finally understand the science behind why I could bend such a crazy pitch.
Love the quick shot on "Liz" Holmes. Perfectly placed.
Gotta also give Tread athletics more props. Not only did they give Clay Holmes his demon sinker, but Mitch Keller also developed his slider with Devin Hayes, one of the pitching whisperers over at Tread... Devin and Ben Brewster are slowly making Tread the best pitcher development group in the WORLD.
devin is the man
So, THAT’S why Dave Stieb’s Slider looks so wicked, with both sweep and drop…
The thumbnail had me gritting my teeth. This might not be the "best" baseball bits, but it's going to go down as one of my favorites. I went into the video thinking, "Not you too, Bailey" and came out surprised that covered my feelings about the "new pitch" so completely. The ending was fantastic. Great video as usual!
It's no coincidence that the sweeper evolved with the concept of tunnneling.
I remember back in 2016, Andrew Miller was mentioned as having 2 different sliders, one with more vertical movement and one with more horizontal movement. We’d probably call the more horizontal one a sweeper now.
Any new Foolish Baseball video day is a great day. Great video, thanks for the entertainment.
thanks!
I wish I could listen to you explain baseball nuances all day. Got to be one of the brightest baseball guys I've ever seen. Keep it up!
You had me at your video game music and your sense of humor and creativity always keeps me here. You're great at what you do. Thanks for all of your infotainment.
I thought it was weird a few years back when everything that broke started being called a slider and now actual sliders are making a comeback as "sweepers"
It really perplexes me how every one of the Dodger’s good right-handed pitching prospects uses the sharp gyro slider instead of the sweepy seam-shifted one, when, as you mentioned, the sweeper is more effective against same-handed hitters. Organizationally, do they feel that the slider of old is more complementary to their four-seamers?
I'm guessing that plays a part. Sweeper/sinker is probably a better combo than sweeper/four-seamer in a vacuum.
could be they like the higher velo of the gyro sliders paired with the upper 90s fast balls that guys like bobby miller sport. maybe they like the slider at 85-89 for the hard fastball instead of the 83 or 84 mph sweeper
Some pitchers throw in such a way that throwing a sweeper is pretty natural, depending on how they pronate (twist/rotate their arm) during their natural throwing motion and arm angle. For some throwing motions the gyro slider is a lot more natural.
I've been a fan of yours for a while now, but that was probably one of your best analysis. Congrats young man.
one of the best episodes ever! this is what baseball is all about
Superb time for a Baseball Bits!
thank you!
Factor really brought a new meaning to the Foolish50
If I don't get them to sponsor next year's I've failed
New baseball bits on my birthday >>>>>>>>
happy birthday!
This channel has brought me back to baseball. Thx bro!!
I'm a pitching physics nerd so this video was right up my alley :D
Another amazing video. You should make a video about the best pitcher of all time, Walter Johnson.
I'm starting to suspect that the person commenting this is, in fact, Walter Johnson.
Most of this went over my head, but I loved every second of it
Baseball nerdery and dry humor. I love it! Never change, Bailey
I remember in the 90's when there were 'hard' sliders and 'sweeping' sliders. Since the grip and mechanics are the same, I prefer that terminology over calling them separate pitches, but it's commonly difficult to categorize some pitches. Some pitches look like a mix of a 2-seam fastball and a sinker so how do you categorize those? Until you set technical definitions to these pitches based on how they are thrown and/or their movement, there are always going to be outliers that don't 'fit' conventional pitch definitions.
I've been throwing this, just how it's held for over 12 years. I really didn't want to throw a curve ball because I was terrified of hurting my elbow. So I would mess around with the grip until I came up with this. My coaches LOVED it. I called it my slider. He would call it the my slurve. I continued to throw it as my breaking pitch until I quit playing. Just started throwing again recently and I'm laughing that I was actually on to something as a kid. It just felt right in my hand and moved enough for them to whiff.
Dave Stieb was filthy..his sweeper/slider is still the best ive witnessed
Loved this video! Would love to see more technical videos like this one!
Back in high school, I think this was one of the pitches that I used. This would have been back in 2013/14, and I just remember it being able to break from hitting a RH batter to middle of the plate. Alas, I could never get it under control, so I generally would go for the 12-6 curve as my offspeed go-to.
Probably a lot of called strikes on that pitch for you.
@@FoolishBaseball Yeah, even though I could only touch low/mid-70s with my fastball, that was definitely enough in rural northern Michigan lol
A slider was always supposed to be horizontal.
I really liked you went into depth about advanced baseball metrics that I haven't heard about. I think your audience is more of your baeball nerd than the average fan. I liked this more than your past video talking about baseball stuff that I mostly already knew. Great video!!
it truly astounds me how you don't have more viewers and subscribers with the absolutuely amazing content you make. I find myself rewatching these baseball bits over and over again and instantly clicking when a new one drops because I know I will be watching some of the most high quality youtube videos on the platform. So FB please keep making these videos because they are just so darn good.
Genuinely the best CZcamsr in the game of any genre. I’ve probably watched every baseball bits 3 times
I guess you could say this pitch is “sweeping the nation”
you could say that. I wouldn't say that. but you could say that.
@@FoolishBaseball you can’t stop me Bailey.
@@amm6112 you are dabbling too far in the magic of puns. Be careful
@@JaredGoofball I’m in too deep
It's just a slurve with the ball being held a just little farther back in the hand
Interesting... didn't think about using a deeper grip from the same arm slot to get that movment. I had a 1-7 curve and all I had to do is drop my arm angle to 3/4s and it would act like what we called a slurve in the 90s.
@@athleticgeek1 I know how to throw stuff, I just can't do it myself🤣🤣
One of the best videos you’ve made. We need a few of these every year, heavy research and game theory. Makes me want to research the Zac Gallen Cut Change from a few weeks ago.
Being a Phillies fan it always nice to know that I can come to this channel and see a Bailey that does not Falter.
So where do Slurves play in the Slider spectrum?
I threw a sweeper growing up. I considered it my slider and had a gyroscopic slider that was basically just a 12-6 curve.
I always considered pitches with more horizontal movement were sweepers and anything with a vertical break was a curveball. Now cutters (which I always considered a fastball) are now classified as sliders. Crazy how much things have changed
Bailey, you are the only one whose sponsorships I watch and don't skip through. Thanks for putting the effort in this as well
Always love when Dave Steib can be brought up!
I can't believe so many pitchers are getting all swept up in the hype.
har har har
Foolish day let's get it
yup
Two Jon Bois references in the first three minutes. Dave Stieb from ‘Captain Ahab: The Story of Dave Stieb’ and Bob Feller from ‘The Bob Emergency.’
I always thought of a slider as a pitch mainly with horizontal movement so I definitely learned something
It is crazy how much this pitch has blown up. However I feel like too many guys have tried incorporating one so now hitters are adjusting and crushing a lot of them
I threw a sweeper back in the day in Wiffle ball
yeah I mentioned your career in the video, didn't you watch the whole thing?
@@FoolishBaseball no my bad 😥
Possibly the best video from Follish Baseball. This guy really crushes it.
This is exactly the video I needed. I could see the difference in the sweeper but was so confused by how, honestly this vid is so awesome, happy to be a patron
NEW BASEBALL BITS BOYS LOCK IN
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This was the most clear and understandable explanation of the sweeper I've ever seen. Props!
Japan has always thrown sweepers...
We've always categorised them into:
Slider - sweeper
H slider - faster slider
V slider - downward slider
Gyro slider - gyroscopic slider
One seam - Darvish invented pitch
I will add this to my pitch arsenal in wiffle ball, i'll be even more unhittable
Blitzball sweeper is probably nasty
@@FoolishBaseball yeah, no one's beating mine but there sweepers are ok
@@FoolishBaseball are we ever gonna see you in the warehouse
Listen, you could be all cool and new and throw a sweeper, but you could also just be Bryce Miller and literally only throw fastball. Both work to me
His fastball is nasty work
High spin four seam and gyro slider my beloved
Side note on that, I think generally especially relatively shorter pitchers can benefit a lot from a four seam gyro kind of arsenal especially if they have a high spin rate. As that better utilizes the lower release height and higher vertical approach angle. While some taller pitchers can use those levers to throw hard sinkers and sweepers etc from a lower arm slot. Really it depends on a ton of different factors pitcher by pitcher especially how well they can spin the ball. But I hope analytics leads to increased diversity in pitching styles based on what bets suits the individual. And as a 5’9 pitcher myself I hope using a shorter height to one’s advantage as well as taller individuals helps improve baseball as a whole
@@Agua-hd4jh I am tall and also not a pitcher, so while I can't confirm exactly what you said, it lines up with what I've heard from other pitchers. Interesting read
Brother your page and content are so good it makes me emotional
Jeez, a Dave Stieb and Bob Emergency overlap in one minute. Awesome stuff.
Always been more of a mopper fan personally
that's when you throw a sweeper in the rain
I’d rather watch baseball bits than go to my wedding
nothing stopping you from doing both
@@FoolishBaseball baseball bits needs 100% attention to be fully appreciated
I came into this video expecting to have to post about Dave Stieb throwing a boss sweeper in the 80s. Thank you for saving me the trouble.
Really appreciate that Holderman clip from the immaculate inning.
why sweep when u can let the Celtics come back from 0-3
that's called a reverse sweep
ITS A SLURVE
Love for the goat, Dave Stieb, only a minute and 35 seconds into the video? New favorite youtuber
Never played ball, but this was one of the most well put together and interesting videos I’ve ever seen.
So interesting, genuinely. Thanks so much!!!
Your voice makes your videos even more enjoyable!!!
Honestly that first part of the video is a really good idea 👍🏻
Hadn't heard of seam-shifted wake until now. Wow. This video is absolutely awesome.
Great video as always Bailey. Just an interesting thing I noticed. When you discuss the raised seams and air wake it causes it sounds very similar to the conventional and reverse swing used by bowlers in cricket. Fast bowlers have been using the raised seam to swing the ball for much of the game’s history. It’s worth noting that while swing bowling has been around a long time, for much of its history bowlers did not have any idea how it worked, they just knew how to do it.
This is a really good video. Good job guys.
Small thing I noticed; I like how you let some of the background songs play a little longer (also great vid)
I Was wondering last night when you would upload again, thank you for listening to my thoughts! ⚾️ 🎉
Mr Baseball thank you for blessing us on this Saturday
thank you Mr Seth
The seam wake shift is probably the reasoning behind Al Alburquerque's slider being so unpredictable. As far as I know, he just gripped it and threw it and didn't care where the seams were.
Also Javy Baez getting demolished in the sweeper highlights.
This is an excellent video my man
Not sure if you mentioned him, but Jon Lester had a funky slider/cutter too. I remember when he first debuted, Remy and Orsillo were always talking about it