Lilith KILLED KVK 2 & 3 | Rise of Kingdoms
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- With the latest news about the upcoming cross season immigration changes, it seems that the ability to migrate to KVK 2 and KVK 3 is going away-- and with it any option for SOC players to have a F2P KVK-- What do you think of these changes?
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Yes it is fun for some people to go back to kvk 2 or 3 and stomping newbie there, but it really ruining the new players experience. Even trash player with trash commander can dominate the kvk 2 as long he already unlock 1 or 2 T5 unit (also most of them already have the kvk experience, so they will be a better player by default).
So yeah, I have to agree with Lilith for this update. In fact, ban all migration to kvk 2 or make it even harder, or we will see fewer new player playing this game.
I agree, this change is hugely positive.
The only people upset are the crybabies who only like to stomp other players in kvk2 over and over with their 5-year-old accounts.
I also disagree that shorter list of commanders is why players are going back to KVK2/3. First off, kvk 3 has the same commander list as SOC. Second, they are going back because they want easy kills and to be big fish in a small pond. If anything this will revive kvk 2 and 3 where they are no longer 20 v 20 matchups of SOC players who went back but actually becomes a competitive fight where the young accounts who SHOULD be enjoying the kvk are the ones fighting and pushing honor etc.
Making the game better for hundreds of players at the expensive of a couple players who don't want to fight against players their own account age is a net positive. Those players should have never been allowed to go back that far to begin with.
It is a good move by Lilith tbh. Old players don't migrate to newer kingdoms just for kvks only.
I’m starting to glean that from the comments :/
Massive Lillith W
Makes the kvk experience so much better for never players. Now they just needs to do so you Can get SoC commanders even earlier
Yeahhhh the whole "dont max anyone until SOC" is a bit painful
@@ShappyGaming Imo you should be able to begin working on them as soon as you get out of kvk1. It makes sense to not have these mega broken commanders in pre-kvk1 when kingdoms is still forming but after you should be able to freely choose
I would even prohibit any migration up to kvk 3, it is so easy to snowball in young kvk... literally everyone goes where there are more t5, they don't even bother to compete
Honestly they kinda did that
I think is great, it’s going to have soo much more people stay in the game longer and not get smashed in kvk2 and kvk3
Let’s hope so!!
It also creates another issue where smaller players in soc are stuck
Yeaaaah but they need to go to a c/d
One of the major reasons for the popularity of kvk2 (even 3) is reward, tons of GHs
I have never heard the reason you say for people going back to kvk2. They always go there for easy kp and maybe just maybe when they have some friends over there but that must be like 5% or the kvk2 migrants.
Lilith took the right choice in this case imo this is really good for new players even at the cost of the few people migrating back (few compared to the amount of players getting their experience ruined) although they took way too long to do it . Heck I would even be more strict about the requirements given.
Thats nuts, those are the main reasons I have heard (or at least what people tell me :D ) I think I might be more strict about it too-- my suggestion is let the new kds stay in pre-soc until they want to move on.
I think folks with really old accounts should stay in SoC and stay competitive.. in SoC and not against T4 tech new players..
Agreed, soc players wrecking newbies is no fun
I simply hate crystal tech
I enjoyed doing the cycle of kvk2-kvk5
Two kvks with crystal tech and two without
I'm a more casual player now so for me with crystal tech I either have to spend heavy or grind (My activity now is I just want to turn up to fights) which means soc becomes pretty expensive for me if I want to perform
In fact, this update is very good, it is very annoying to see whale players coming from SoC to kvk2, that's savage for f2p-low-medium spenders
the issue is, many players in SOC don't kit DPK and have to migrate. This just cut that migration pool for players so they will now be zeroed and leave the game. Crazy update.
There are some farmer kds im sure though!
then just fight and meet DKP
I'm glad you mentioned how long you have been playing because I won't roast you for the takes you presented in the video. I'll just lay it out as someone who recently went through this experience as leadership(In King rotation).
1. Players do not enjoy KvK 2 or 3. KvK 2 is rarely decided by fighting strength but more commonly decided by who betrays who first. People want rewards, and will flip sides in order to achieve those rewards. If you want to play this map in SOC just register for Strife of the Eight, it is a strictly better version of the KvK 2 map. KvK 3 only has one instance of territory fighting in the entire thing and it is Kingsland. It is a farmers paradise because you only HAVE to log in and fight for one day and most KvK 3 KL fights last about 4-8 hours MAXIMUM because of how ridiculously small KL is. After the first chapter ends a couple hours in you know exactly when KL opens (over a month from then) and the only thing to do in between is log in to do events. It is not fun for leadership or fighters since it is so incredibly boring.
2. 1:51 let me lay this out for you. Most active f2p/low spenders will exit KvK 1 around 20-30m power. They have zero legendary commanders expertised (except Aethel) because every source of advice regarding commanders these days is to save for KvK 3. They have 2-3 weeks before they are in KvK 2 where they will need to compete against (50 slots x 8 kingdoms = 400) 60m+ power accounts who (some of them) did not even need to go back and invest into KvK 2 commanders because they were old enough to have been around when they were the newest commanders. The cross-season migrants who are not that old still have the 2 most powerful KvK 2 commanders - Alex and Constantine - because Alex has been meta for a long time even recently coming back into relevance with the LC pairing and Constantine is a god in Canyon. No new player in the past couple years is deliberately going out of their way to invest in these commanders for use in KvK 2 specifically because the cross season migrants their kingdom takes in will already have the important ones maxed.
2:14 This is talked about further down in the mail where they talk about KvK 5.
5:14 I'm not gonna sugarcoat this one, if KvK 3 was good enough they would have remade it into a SoC KvK mode like they did to KvK 2 with Strife of the Eight. KvK 3 is the weakest of all KvK modes ever made and I constantly wonder they haven't outright deleted it yet.
6:00 You have not been able to migrate (cross-season) to a kingdom about to enter KvK 3 for at least a year. Ever since they updated it to have SoC Commanders/gear and SoC Wheels/MGEs because people would want to migrate back to play the only "SoC KvK" that did not have crystal tech.
6:18 Players do not enjoy playing with a limited selection of commanders. It is a sacrifice they are willing to make in order to go back and stomp noobs. If you want to defend players who angle their entire account towards maxing KvK 2 pairings just to repeat KvK 2 over and over again, stop. These players are not doing it because they love the unique gameplay of KvK 2, they are doing it because it lets them stomp noobs. What they are doing is toxic and should not be catered for. Also, Lilith will never introduce KvKs where you are forced to use less commanders unless that list includes ONLY the most recent x number of commander releases and excludes all older commanders. Why would they give players who were otherwise invested in the game and building up their roster an option to stop building up their commander roster? Some amount of players will stagnate and stop logging in if they don't need to collect any more commanders.
My own two cents on the New Player Experience (NPE) is that this update will be a massive boon for the longevity of the game because natives won't be quitting in droves when they exit KvK 1 and realize they can't compete against others at their own account age range like that KvK 1 experience for literal YEARS because of the overpowered cross season migrants and the general state of older accounts in SOC kingdoms.
Newer kingdoms have to invest in their own players (or recruit from kingdoms slightly older than them) in order to get good rallies and garrisons pre-kvk5. Make no mistake, if they try to recruit cross-season migrants under the new age restrictions they will get some without fail. After all, what kind of whale or low spender doesn't want to go back and redo some events and get more commanders/gear/overall power? They all do. In this new view of the world Lilith is controlling the gap in the difference in ages of the accounts in pre-SoC kingdoms to be much more fair.
This also solves the issue Lilith is experiencing where pre-KvK 1 whales are almost always stopping their spend once the cross-season migrants come in post-KvK 1. Imagine you just dropped 20-50k to be a god in KvK1 and then the moment cross season migrant opens you realize you went from strongest player in the kingdom to the rank 51st player in the kingdom. Of course you are going to feel like your 'investment' is wasted and you will stop spending. These new rules will allow native whales to continue to feel strong and keep them spending longer. The longer they spend, the higher chance they will have of entering true SoC (which is now kvk6) with a decent fighting chance. By that point they will have had two chances at getting legendary tavern/special inscriptions(even better with the recent improvements to autarchs going to high performers) and will have some SoC blueprints from getting 2 KvKs worth of Conquest Coins.
This leads me to my next point. Younger kingdoms will rally around their whales for at least the first 4-5 KvKs because they are going to be the biggest fighters, the best rally/garrisons, and on the flip side having a whale leave the kingdom would hurt morale. I believe younger kingdoms will treat their whales like royalty to the point where native whales will not want to migrate to join a massive kingdom like others are worried about. Put yourself in the shoes of a young native whale. Would you rather stay in your native kingdom where they are constantly giving you MGEs so that you can rally/garrison better (which is improving the quality of your account at a rapid rate) or would you rather migrate to a giant kingdom with tons of whales where you will not always get top MGE ranks just for a (perceived) slightly higher chance to win a KvK? I think most native whales would prefer to stay the top dog where they are, where they know the players they play with, and where they are rewarded handsomely for being a whale.
This would help bolster the social aspect of the game. Keeping the whales engaged, rewarded, and entertained while keeping the whales around for the F2P to rally around during fighting. This idea breaks down in the current model of the game because the only reason the KvK 1 T5 whale exists is to get through KvK 1 and then his account is effectively discarded or turned into a T5 farm once cross season migrants arrive with years worth of better gear and maxed out commanders that the native whale won't even have access to for many months.
Okay! First, sorry for the delay-- you put alot of thought into your comment so I wanted to get real time to read through it and respond.
1. Thats a real bummer to hear that people dont actually enjoy these KVK types, and perhaps more concerning are the points you made since they were not addressed in this fix.
That said-- the issue with strife again comes back to crystal tech, and its even larger role it plays with lack of additional mechanics! In a perfect world re:kvk 3 I would like a kvk with kingdom tech-- it rewards activity and reduces the impact whales have.
2. This is a real problem and why I like the idea of segmenting the population. My issue is generally less about protecting the early game players and more about enabling older players to have a choice re:spending kvk or not.
5:14 wowza-- agree on the map bit but the tech im a fan of.
6:18 You are probably right here, I wish it were different and maybe I am just naive here but based on the general responses to the video I think it is closer to your point than mine. That said I do disagree on the commander limitation piece especially due to the new update with ark. Also-- I am campaigning for an option to do that, this would be 1 option out of the current 8ish available in SOC
I totally agree with everything in this second comment-- mainly because this was what I experienced in my playthrough. I think whats interesting is when I was starting in 1304-- the concept of older whale accounts was so much less of a threat and as such this was what we did. I HOPE that the behavior you are calling out does occur.
I spent over 10k euros on my account, I was one of the strongest in my kingdom but once kvk2 started I became the weakest, couldn't even get MGE and I quit playing for a few months until I buy an account.
It's good for new players. I'm on lilith's side with this one. I wish they have done it before so my fun wouldn't be ruined
wow... i didnt realize it was this severe
Lilith definitely has a self created dilemma. Whatever the reason people migrate back, if you block that from happening you’ve essentially made any and all kvk 2 commanders completely irrelevant. No point in mge and other events. No point in investing in those comms. They’re literally pointless. Because 30 days later kvk and soc comms are available. The only people who had them before were older vets when that’s all that was available or people who plan on going back to replay at least once. So it’s odd that by “preserving the game” for younger kingdoms you’re also making another portion of your game entirely irrelevant when it was already struggling.
I completely agree, which is why I want these kvk types added to SOC
@@ShappyGaming or what about the player experience when they invest their time and money for 6-9 months and then hit a MASSIVE pay wall called crystal tech and if they don’t spend hundreds if not thousands on it they’re essentially irrelevant
My current kd is kvk 2 with atleast 30 t5 migrated and they got the leadership in my kd. They want to maximize kp in every player in kd and if not they will zero everyone who didn't hit the target kp and deaths during kvk. We are losing in kvk because theres one from 60 Gt with 500M account migrated and stomps us. Its hard to get kp when all the t5 players are in the field with max commanders and equipment.
That’s true, weird problem to have but I can totally see it- it goes along with not enough fighting time
Big fan of the proposed changes to KVK 2/3 cross season migration. I wish they would have implemented these changes when my account was entering KVK 2. As a native player who had spent months building his account at that point to get massively stomped by cross seasons was deflating. I really lost interest in the game where I wasn't fighting against players who started this game around the same time as I did but now was pitted against players who've had 4-5 years in the game building their comms, equips and speeds. I stopped playing for a month because the game for me, as a native, became stale during KVK 2 and 3.
I can tell you that a lot of my friends who started this game with me quit because it became uncompetitive because:
1) If your cross season migration was a dud (too many rss sellers, illegals or deadweights migrating back) you're basically fked for the next few months
2) Your account, unless you whaled out, was not going to trade well at all against SoC migrants
No one wants to play a game where it's not balanced. No one wants to waste their time trying to play catch up within 3-4 months after you started the game.
Lilith finally figured out that not a lot of spenders were migrating back anyway so might as well cut the cord and not alienate their new player base any further. If you were spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on this game you're probably dominating players in SoC anyway so why migrate back and limit your account?
I totally see where you are coming from. Do you think if you were to restart with these rules it would change the game for you?
@@ShappyGaming Absolutely. I would have enjoyed my Kvk 2 and 3 experience and the game would have a more gradual transition from KVK 1/2/3 to SoC KVK 4. Instead I get peepz with 5x t5 marches, full epic/legendary gear, 20x my speedups and bagged rss. If someone outspends me in this game so be it that's their money and if I want to beat that player I'm willing to spend a little as well but having to fight a player whose simply been playing this game longer in the same match is unfair
@@robertchao2143 yeaaaah it’s like starting at a disadvantage
How can you say its not big of a deal to migrate from Soc to kvk 2. 50 players with t5 in kvk 2 and you have your Kings Land secured. Not to mention you had time to expertise kvk2 commander from the dailys if you are low/mid spender. Like this allows each kingdom to grow naturally with new players. Old ones just need to lvl up their game if they want to get competitive
50 t5 players in kvk 2 would be absurd
@@ShappyGaming We had 5 T5 in kvk 1. We got around 10 in my alliance
They killed olympia, now they kill kvk 2/3. Only what interresting is who will imigrate in these new kingdoms now? The reason was always to imigrate new kingdoms for kvk 2/3, then they had always some ppl but now?
I think the intention is to not have new migrants but rather maintain the player base in the newer kds
they saved kvk 2 v 3 no more old acc who will ruin balance in that kvk
Somewhat nice change ,if it were up to me i would allow any "weak" account e.g 40m power or something like that even if the acc is old .That could be a nice innitiave to draw some players that have quit over the years.
That’s not a bad move- like kings return but for higher power
Older accts ruined my kvk 2. No fighting because we had players with t5 that did all the work and got all the rewards. So, ya, ban all of it or the game dies. I almost quit as a new player kvk 1 was great made me want to play more
sheesh sounds like new players really have had it rough
It would be a good change if the game wasn't uber P2W, I got sick of lillith releasing new commanders that made the comms you spent ages maxing irrelevant then they decide to add equipment/armaments and crystal tech. SoC is just a massive chore and money sink if you want to be competitive. Going back to kvk 2/3 was the most fun I've had. Jumping was already dead with the migration changes so I haven't played since anyway but i always get nostalgia of the fun times in this game that I won't get to experience anymore.
The new commanders is the nature of the game sadly :/ and SOC does mandate spending at this point which is a bummer
@ShappyGaming I really think they should've been less greedy, not saying completely remove p2w as its their big money source but atleast don't make commanders such a big investment when they can become obsolete after 1 kvk, equipment rng too when it's so expensive. Game would've been much more enjoyable for more people.
And remove crystal tech, dumbest thing ever, or revamp it to be participation based.
I'm 2 years off now but I think it is a good decision
This fix may help you come back!
Possibly the best change untill now
Horrible take.
This is a huge positive change for new kingdoms. No more 3-year-old accounts going to kvk2 to ruin the game for everybody else is a win.
You don’t think there is any downside to this change??
New kingdoms are also stuck with leadership that has no real experience when they enter soc.
You only say that, because it has been ages since you played kvk2 and kvk 3 as an native
This may be true!
Best change ever i think i start game again just to play with accounts similar to my not sooooo old where 1 player do more than 30 same season...
Niceeee let me know if you start up again!
i agree with the developers. great update!
I dont agree with you. The update is primarily aimed to make the kvk experience of young, new players more enjoyable and not for the old more powerful players who come in and wreck the native players experience.
Oh that I 100% agree with, my concern is that it doesn’t do enough and that it leaves SOC players without a free option
Lilith eog sh8
Is migration from SoC to KvK2 still possible or update is work already?
I believe the update is in effect!
This update will greatly increase whale retention through KvK 5, but also stops old f2p players from enjoying KvK formats before crystal tech.
Amazing update for new whales. Bad update for old f2p players.
I know countless KvK 1 whales who quit when they realize their $10k accounts will not stand a chance against f2p migrants in KvK 2. And since KvK 2 currently involves 8 kingdoms with 50 cross-season migrants each, those whales go from being Godlike in KvK 1 to being not even in the top 400 for KvK2. Some of them drop another $5k - $10k on a competitive account to migrate back to KvK 2, and replace their main, but most don't and they just quit after getting shredded a few times by 1,000+ day old migrants.
To put it in perspective, if you max purchase every hammer event and max spin every egg event, you can get 1 set of legendary equipment for KvK 2, 3 iconic crystals to awaken, and no armaments. Then you compete against 400 migrants with 5 sets of legendary equipment, all awakened, some crits, 25%+ stats from armaments, and all gold key commanders expertised.
I have heard this alot about new whales getting absolutely wrecked by legacy farmers-- at first I didnt believe it, but it does make sense when you start to think about eq and armaments-- even with whale spending it takes time to get there
Bro I'm from 3265 and I had 14 days between kvk 3 and 4
That’s absolutely absurd
@@ShappyGaming tell me about it. Don't forget we also beat 3281 twice in a row. Baba tc and ekrem baba both run that place. 2B power players still lose
I think you are overreacting. This great for majority of new acc, and only bad for a little amounts of bullies with high power. Great decision by lilith. They made survey, and majority wants it. So face it
Yeeeeep, I do wonder though if this is the solution that will work best
VIP gear based
yeaaaah thats the real issue
I think they should make a kvk 2 and kvk3 gamemode in soc to where the same commander Restrictions, etc... so the people that want to replay it doesnt have to go ruin other peoples experiences in earlier kds. And if lilth wants the money so bad add crystal tech to the soc gamemode of kvk 2 and 3
YES! This is what I want
@@ShappyGaming yea because I don't like the idea of 30mil 40mil power players migrating back to kvk against people that don't even have max tech yet or even good commanders
It is a good change, let the KD develop and let the new players enjoy the game. 99% of new ppl drop out after being stomped in kvk2.
Let’s hope this keeps them around!
I totally agree with Lilith's decision. Come on, think.
After reading through all the comments and listening to yall I’m starting to think the pros outweigh the cons
Think it is a good update. Because young accounts need to fight young accts. People that keep going back to KVK 2 does put the younger accounts at a disadvantage.
I think this will also help some of these younger accounts get better stats going into later kvks
I’m currently about to start kvk 2 and I can tell you the experience has been awful. Canyon is a joke now we have migrants with full expertised commanders. MGE is given to higher power. Events are out of reach. I’ve been scared about having to fight these T5 migrants on opposing kingdoms with a huge disadvantage. This change sounds amazing old accounts 200-300+ day accounts should not be fighting 140~ day accounts without proper commanders or tech.
I’m thrilled to hear newer players are pumped about this- if you are happy I am happy!
Now just to get the F2P kvk sorted
I have to ask, why on earth is your kingdom recruiting older accounts that need kvk2 MGE commanders? It’s seems counterintuitive to invite an older account that would not be embarrassed to take MGE from newer players.
It’s about time it happened. People would like a crystal tech free kvk but it’s probably not going to happen.
Let’s try to make it happen!
They (Lilith) only listen to people dropping thousands a week to gain an advantage in fighting, including crystal tech. They won’t do something like this for medium spender - ftp players, why should they when their purpose is to make money. I wish they would, but I don’t think there is any precedent from my time playing this game, I don’t remember much if anything that has been introduced that help’s ftp more than mega whale accounts, does anyone?
@@denis-mf3cx I strongly believe that if you make a good experience, people will still spend money to get an edge
people migrate to bully new accounts not to replay kvk format
:( I wish it werent that way
So I think about the matching between old and younger kd is about, when you have Strong kvk2 kd, let say imp kvk2/3 When it's gonna hit kvk5, they will get very worest marching, and that what they trying to fix
And for cross 120 days yes as you say it's no that good, like same season migrants is 90 days while cross is 120 days lol
That’s my concern, once they hit SOC they are immediately outmatched
When they enter kvk 4 and later kvk 5 migration will be able to oldest accounts so no worry it's stop for first 3 kvks
It was never fun to fight 5 full t5 marches using expertise commanders with my budget march
Ooof sounds painful
Kvk2-3 cross season ruled and decided who won the kvk and leaderahip had no way to keep dead weight out. It was a desaster. Keep native players happy if late game players want to play old kvk stles add them to soc or have them make a new acct or give them a cross season nerf. It hurts new players so much even the big spenders of kvk 1 cant compeat with cross season
I think they should just add them to SOC
Yeah- that’s nuts, someone below said they were a kvk 1 whale spending 10k and still got wrecked
Most promising new kingdoms fall apart by kvk 6. They have no idea how truly weak they are until face the SoC firing squad. 😂 Lilth should try and protect these noobs as long as possible so they can get up to speed by kvk 6.
I think that was the goal with this update!
This is great
So glad you like it!!
This is the best update ever
Wowwww, better than museum buff, armaments, and remaster!?
bro why tf would it be a disaster? You say the reason is some soc players want to go back to kvk2 and that's bad. How about the natives that gets wrecked by old players? don't you think their gameplay in the early game should be prioritised for the community to attract more.players? Lmao I can see you haven't played enough early kvks. I'm still in kvk2 and we lost the kvk. We have a 333m native whale and yet he barely stood a chance against those 80m players with maxxed out commanders and gears with like 10b+ kp lol. You should not say something with confidence if you lack the knowledge/experience on that said matter!
Also, the "matchmaking problem with old kingdoms" refer to kvk 5 and so. Remember the 8 imperium kvk? an imp kingdom at around 2900s almost 3000s got match up against 77 and 960. After they lost by getting stomped, the kingdom died miserably. and It was just their kvk 5. It's because, yes they might be imperium, but most of their players are still very young, their only soc kvk is kvk4 so they get stomped by OneV and 60GT
So I will admit-- I haven't played kvk 2 since 2019, so you may be totally right. I agree that new kingdoms should be insulated from soc whales. At this point my main beef is with the fact that when you get out of kvk 4 you are still fed to the SOC wolves-- so it is postponing the inevitable AND there are no longer options for FTP kvk's once you go past kvk 4 thus making it a P2W game entirely.
i would go back to kvk 2 not because of commanders but alot of free kp
Seeeee that’s why they made this fix 😭