Swimming Training Program - Secret Tip - How to Pull Underwater in Freestyle swimming
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
- Swimming Training Program tip that we teach at our swim camps in Florida and California: theraceclub.com... The underwater pull is a compromise between power and drag. In this Secret Tip we find out why it is more important to reduce drag than it is to increase power during the underwater pull in Freestyle. Gary Sr. coaches swimmers of all levels and abilities from all over the world at The Race Club in Islamorada, Florida and Los Angeles, California.
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Watch videos and read our Aqua Notes blog for more secret swim tips on The Race Club website: www.theraceclub... - Sport
Understanding the physics behind it is fundamental for really understanding the high elbow catch and why it is any better than just submerging your whole arm all the way down and pull with all your power. This video basically stands out from the rest of the high elbow videos because it answers the question of WHY it is better to pull that way as opposed to the rest of the CZcams videos that answer the HOW it should be done. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. That video definitely convinced me that it worth it to try and incorporate the high elbow technique into my swimming.
well stated
I love your videos. You explain the science behind everything and it just makes so much more sense. Wish my swim team coach back in the day would have been able to explain it easily as you do!
your videos are by far the best ones i've seen regarding swimming advice. thank you
the best swim video I have seen so far!
Interesting. Most other videos on high elbow catch say the main reason is for power and engagement of the core. This video provides much needed info.
Yes, high elbow pull generates less propulsion with less drag.
Thanks for the video. I am training for my first Tri and didn't realize there was a difference. Guess I should have hired a trainer.
Awesome advice. This guy knows his stuff! Good communicator.
I love how technical and scientific you get with these videos. It gives me a real reason to believe you rather than my coach just saying that's the way it is.
I've been a Master Swimmer for 10 years; a constant swimmer for 40 years. A month ago I watched this video and decided to give it a try. Even with a "new stroke", my times didn't slip at all. After a week, my times began improving. After a month, I'm less winded and dropping significant time (today's 1650 was a 19:13; previous best in practice was a 19:31). So Thank You Gary Hall !! It works.
Thanks for this great testimony! I am so glad you discovered this important technique.
This is definitely one of the best videos about the freestyle stroke. Now all I think I still need is advice for beginners about how the movement of the arms can feel as my technique evolves.
I have a slight hunchback and keeping my body streamlined in the water is challenging in itself. To know if I'm pulling with high power/drag, or low power/drag, is not straight-forward - and becomes impossible to tell as my muscles fatigue. One day I'll get the hang of it.
Keep trying...it is not an easy or natural motion to use.
watching ten years later- helpful thanks ---I've been watching a lot of videos over the years and I've never heard about resistance/drag on the arm as you discussed.
Thanks for continuing to watch our videos for so many years. It means a lot to us and we're so happy they're helping!
The best explanation of the pro Instructor
I love all the detail from your lession
Thank your Sir very much...
You are very welcome
Some thoughts from a physicist: (1) the main reason for high elbow having less drag is because it is closer to the surface, where there is less resistance due to air-water contact (free surface); (2) although hand's net displacement is zero, is is very clear in the video the it goes forward during catch fase and then backwards during the pull. So, besides having zero net forward movement, it moves and thus generates some drag, although I would guess that it is very small compared to arm's drag, as you said.
Just some details that could go into the explanation. This is by far the best swimming channel that I've seen, tied with Chloe Suton's! Congrats
Yes, the net displacement of the hand is near zero. At the beginning (lift phase) and the end (release phase), the hand does move forward and causes some drag. Of late, I have been very interested in how the fingers being separated (and thumb out) or the hand angling to the side affects the frontal drag force during the lift phase (before initiating the catch). I will be measuring that in Florida in November, but I suspect that there is a big difference when compared to squeezing the fingers and thumb together out front at entry.
I have swum the English Channel twice and really rate all Gary Hall's swim tips. Thank you Sir.
Thanks...and congrats on swimming the Channel not once but twice!! You are a better man than I!
You are welcome! Nice job on the Channel swims!
Uncommon knowledge in the physics of swimming, transmitted with great clarity
thanks for watching!
ive recently begun triathlons, i was a runner turned cyclist now trying to swim. im having tremenodus problems and wasting way too much energy in the water. this video made a lot of sense to me and im heading down to the pool now to try it out. thanks coach!
Awesome Tips Sir ^_^
I'll Try All That Again And Again,..Thanks
Thank you Mr. Hall, I have been one of your fan during the '70s. Your swim strokes back in the day have helped me, and I am after your 50 records in the Fly...
I hope you break it!
your detailed explanations on all of your swimming videos are awesome...you are the best...I would like to get or buy your t shirts or swim caps if any...of them are availables...
Good explanation, thanks 🙏
Thanks!
Excellent explanation. Never quite heard it explained this way. Now I understand why. thanks.
Great to hear!
Our pleasure! Hope to see you in Florida soon.
I've been experimenting with my underwaters, this helps alot.
Thanks Gary.
Brilliant, I'd been trying to figure exactly that conundrum. Clearly explained.
Glad to help!
Gary, thank you for sharing so much valuable info about swimming in your many 'Secret Tips' for the benefit of people on the other side of the planet that cannot attend your Race Club. Very generous. We are working with water babies that started swimming at 5-6 months old & are just now at 8 years old willing to come to the surface and try swimming there. You really know your stuff. Hope you get to train the next young star of swimming - the next Thorpe/Phelps. Thanks again. U R kind 2 share!
nice explanation on mechanical properties of a swimmer during swimming!
Nice work on videos.
I tried this tip in the water and noticed (at least) a 50% increase in speed. By raising the elbow during the pull, efficiency is automatically increased by deceasing the frontal drag. I understand the physics. THANKS race club.
Thank you! Gary Sr.
AWESOME!! Thank you so much Gary for doing this video. If I had only known this stuff when I was younger I could have been a contender. But seriously I'm gonna pass this on to my kids.
Thanks.
Never too late to change!
Superb!
Thank you! Cheers!
Since the body should be rotating during the underwater pull, the shoulder goes from a negative position (with a high elbow) at the beginning of the underwater pull to a neutral, then positive angle as the hand moves backward. The mechanical power increases to a maximum somewhere around the shoulder, then diminishes thereafter until the end of the pull. With a deep pull the negative angle is less or not at all...but the frontal drag forces are greater.
to stop the 'diminishing" effect, bend your arm to 90 deg (releasing the water at or about your ulna and push straight(purchasing new water) back past your tibia socket, this utilises the tricepts and interior delts (more muscles used - longer stroke, power surge at the end. Your other arm enters the water, you get a fraction more time to breath in but mostly this stops 'freewheeling' - if you don't think this is powerful, swim under water and keep your arms by tour side. bend your arms up to90 deg. and push (like an otter), you might just beat your underwater record.
Great insight, thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
excellent expalnation, thanks very much for sahring your technique. I now start near surface of the water with high arm position....
Thank you so much for this enlightenment! Will keep this in mind next time I swim and put it to practice!!
excellent!
That was a pretty good explanation... many thanks.
Really great video guys!!! I fight with these two concepts every time I swim.
For what its worth, get a sheet of white cardboard or a silver/gold reflector to help balance the foreground to background light. OTHERWISE, an awesome video!!!
GREAT ! thank you wise guy :) !
Gary Hall congratulation for concens in physics, hydrodynamic and biomechanics to explain the efficiency in swimming ! If you allows me, I may complete the theory of superior efficiency of flexed-high elbow: 1. more power in flexed arm than straight arm for push back water (leverage III principle- try push down at lat-pull-down fitness equipment straight versus flexed)
2. Propulsive compensation for lateral drag (high elbow) than non-propulsive (elevation) compensation for deep/ down stroke
Thanks! We appreciate your comment.
Gary Sr.
Great explanation. This is the only place I go to for swimming technique tips :)
Thanks...we appreciate your loyalty!
You're welcome. I was discussing the rotation of the body in freestyle the other day and then I heard you mention it in a backstroke video. I know it's far away but it would be neat if you could had a camp here in Toronto Canada
3. Upper-arm has maxim force at + 30 / + 45 degrees at anterior-adduction ( high elbow but not very "high') than 90 degrees (when engage only rotator- terres & subspinous muscles) and than 0 degrees (very high elbow/ dorsal hyperextended when pectoral is disengaged)
4. Dynamic equilibrium on sagital direction around the thorax-lungs support/ sustention point (Archimedes law) which dynamic elevate the back and legs when the arm is plunged in a slight angle in recovery phase (more than Bernoulli)
Wow ! Awesome video and explanation! Thanks a lot !
Totally subscribe your theoretical facts, vincereee. The leverage principle applied here (2 points of articulation of an arm: 1, the shoulder and 2, the elbow) becomes a better propulsive efficiency option than a 1 point of articulation (the shoulder) solution. When you have 2 points of articulation the main concern is to first anchor your forearm and the hand (the catch fase) as near as possible to a 90º angle in relation to the displacement axis,
That's a physics lesson right there, wow ! respect sir !
Dont kno who d speaker is....bt definatley d best analytical video on scientific basis that i have ever cm a'X
Great explanation ! Now I see why the need for high elbow.
Glad you get it now!
Einstein of swimmming
Thanks for the kind words!
If we define x as the horizontal axis, or the axis in which the swimmer is traveling, then the hand leaving the water the same place it entered implies that the *average* velocity along the x direction is 0.
The hand undergoes (approximately) circular motion. Thus, the hand's velocity in the x-direction is slowest when the hand is going down or up, but fastest when it is moving parallel to the floor/surface. The hand will be spend the same amount of time moving forward with respect to the water as it spends moving backwards, in order to have an average of 0.
The hand will generate the most power when it is in the downwards duration of its swing, since that is when its velocity in the -x direction is the fastest. The hand must generate propulsion, otherwise the swimmer is essentially propelling with just legs (which we know is not true); thus the hand's velocity must be negative during some duration of the pull.
The upper portion of the arms move no faster than the hand due to having a shorter distance from the pivot point. They can move as fast as the hand if the high elbow technique is used, so that the forearm's x position is the same as that of the hands during most of the pull.
From a temporal analysis, the pull is most efficient when the arm presents the greatest cross sectional area along the plane perpendicular to the x-axis during which the arm is moving backwards with respect to the water and catching that "forward directing drag", and when it presents the least cross sectional area when the arm is moving forwards with respect to the water.
So ideally (though perhaps not realistically), you should feel a drag pushing your arms *back* as, after just entering the water, they move from the straight (parallel to x) position to a bent (perpendicular to x) position, and when you move from the bent position back to the straight position and exit the water. While your arm is in the bent (perpendicular to x) position, that is when you should feel a drag pushing your arms *forward* as you pull through the water.
+cryora You have put a lot of thought into this. Just a couple of corrections. First, the hand does not move in a perfect circle (of about 2 feet in diameter) with shoulder driven freestyle. The hand cuts the corner of the clock from 6 to 9 o'clock (hand enters the water at 12 o'clock) in order to keep the hand pushing backward (negative velocity). The hand is what creates 95% or more of the force resulting in propulsion while moving backward (not the forearm). The only part of the arm that pertains to frontal drag is the part moving forward. The upper arm moves forward for much of the duration of the underwater pull. Therefore the position of the upper arm is critical to minimizing frontal drag. You are right in that the swimmer will feel the propulsive drag force against the hand (moving backward or downward, creating lift) but not the frontal drag forces caused by the upper arm. Hope this helps.
As swimmers get faster, drag forces become even more consequential. It is for this reason that technique for advanced swimmers is even more important. Maximizing power is not the goal...maximizing speed is. That requires a compromise of maximum power toward less drag position.
thanks mate! i found that out too and ive been trying my best to get to open water as much as possible. its more accurate training...and its free :)
Tech by tech I am already there ... I had to learn the hard way through shouldercuff injury for over stress for the angled pull. Now it's more of a dragging me ahead but I got injured again, this time during weight training, at the other shoulder. :)
Keep it up guys, I just LOVE and SHARE all of your videos. I am actually striving to do the kick by using more hip movement the way you described in your last video. :)))
Thank you for this excellent explanation!
You are welcome!
terrific stuff. thanks for the explanation
Thanks Gary, love the explanation.
You are welcome!
Great explanation. Thanks.
You are welcome!
Thanks. Will keep that in mind on next shots. Gary Sr
Excellent explanation
Thanks!
I can't wait to swim there!
Excelent explanation! Thanks!
Glad you like them!
the "clock" it refers Gary is situated in sagital plan. (Looking lateral the swimmer), that's true: on 6 o'clock (perpendicular on longitudinal alignament) / 90 degrees is maximal force.
We can make consideration for 3 "articulation" : 1st. body rotation, 2nd shoulder, 3rd elbow. Early body derotation can compensate the lack of high elbow. But most of the swimmers are dissynergic between scapular belt (pectoral arch/ shoulder girdle /upper body) and pelvic belt (lower body): they rotate the thorax, but do not rotate so good the hips. In this case, when loose power of whole body derotation (upper + lower body), they use only upper-body derotation force to make the stroke
Wow! Thanks! I now have a better future awaiting for me..
Glad to help! It really works!
Ace video
We are only measuring and considering the speeds while in the water. When you average in the forward velocity of the hand on the recovery phase through the air, you are right, it is the same as the body, 2 m per second.
Great video!!
before that point, it increases the propulsive force gradually and after that it decreases gradually, meaning that the area surface presented by the whole arm to displace a body has only one angle of maximum efficiency (90º or perpendicular to the body) out of a range of semi-circle angles (since the arm enters the water on the catch fase until exits for the recover fase).
We will release soon a new DVD called Life is Worth Swimming. You will get it on line and see how two fast freestylers pull a bit differently. Neither pull with the old S-shape pull that some coaches still advocate. The side to side motion of the hand during the pull back should be no more than about 6 to 8 inches. The hand should initiate the pull at the shoulder and drop directly down below the elbow.
brilliant cheers mate.
shoulder has 3 degrees free angles of mobility, looking the body staying vertical, we can imagine 3 plans: HORIZONTAL (TRANSVERSAL) on which the humerus makes inner adduction - lateral abduction, neutral 0 degree is with hand in front: on this plan I reffer for +30/+45 lateral; Second plan is SAGITAL (looking lateral the body, like split the body in 2 simmetrical parts), where humerus makes flexion (upward move) and extension (downward move), on this plan the maximal force is on 90 degree
My hand enters water as far ahead as possible (arm almost completely extended) and the pull phase begins when the hand is beneath the water line for the same height of the hand itself (from mid-finger to wrist, that lenght I mean I go "down" as little as I can, this is what I mean).
I can actually feel the water pull by the base of my neck so the hand is inwards not downwards. The elbow couldn't possibly be higher than that... it would go OUT of the water.
I just had to adapt bc of my injury.
You cannot avoid a negative angle of the shoulder when you initiate the underwater pull if you are recovering with good body rotation. As the body counter rotates, the negative angle goes away in time for the propulsive phase of the pull.
maintaining the forearm all way in that angulation until the arm exits the water or the recover fase, hence the need to maintain an high elbow position. Obviously the area surface presented by the forearm plus the hand on the plane perpendicular to the displacement axis is inferior to the whole arm, but it is more efficient when you verify that the whole arm has only a maximum efficiency when you have it stretched in front on your chest (coincident with perpendicular plane of displacement)
When do u come to Costa Rica???
excellent, thank you Sir.
You are welcome!
PERFECT VIDEO!!!!
I extend just a bit less than max so I have a SLIGHT move (in tempo it would have been the now removed S) ahead, then almost immediately pull back with the hand that turns 90° INWARDS rather than DOWNWARDS.
So imagine right hand enters water 45° down, EXTENDS further ahead, then turns a 90° angle inwards (left) and pulls more or less as much as it would in frogstyle (almost full angle with elbow point) before PUSHING down to the hip (as far as, actually).
I know it's hard but am trying. :)
hi garry
this is from sri lanka. thanks so much for sharing your knowledge with us via fb....
question is what about the back stroke pull? how much of a bent arm is needed to be efficient........
informative video, thank you
You are welcome!
I would always vote for less drag over more power. Pulling deep is like putting your foot on the gas and brake at the same time. You may give up some power with a high elbow, but you save a lot of energy in the longer run. At The Race Club, we try to teach the unobvious way to get you faster.
Gary Sr.
Gary, what is the difference between "Shoulder Driven" and "Body Driven" freestyle? Thanks!
Body Driven freestyle, as originally described by coach Mike Bottom, is really shoulder driven freestyle with a straight arm recovery, in my opinion.
Gary.....this is almost straight from the master, Doc Counsilman himself! I have two sprinters, both 21.5 (short course yards), should I have them change to the high elbow for the 50? Nick Gearhart
The big difference between hip driven and shoulder driven freestyle is the time the hand remains out front (hip driven much longer). Once the propulsive phase begins, one should pull the hand through as fast as possible (about .35 to .4 seconds) to get the most power.
You are welcome!
Question: Is perfecting technique #1 priority for our little swimmers rather than trying to improve their endurance and strength in their first year of training? It was amazing how many 2012 Olympic swimmers powered their way over some fundamental problems with their stroke and STILL got to the Finals. It seems Phelps, Locte & the Chinese proved best technique is King. What do you think? But perhaps MOST impressive was how much FUN the American swimmers were having all the time. Very inspiring!
Well, I am still pondering this. I found a video of Sun Yang, the young man from China who smashed the distance record in the last Olympics, and he uses the 90 degree or so pull with his arm more out to the side. Then there is a nice clip of Katie in slow motion, where she uses about a 90 degree elbow bend (actually it seems she uses about 90 on the left arm and about 100+ on the left, which is her breathing side), as she sprints. Her pull is more down than to the side. So, the curiosity side of me wants to get your gadget with the dacron string, hook it up to some swimmers and see if you can get actual measurements for different arm bend angles, out to the sides, etc.... like you did to compare the butterfly kicks.
You are reading our minds! We will have a webisode on four different pulling motions in freestyle and how those affect acceleration, deceleration and velocity. Planned to release in the fall on Lanes 2, 3 and 4. It will be a good one.
and the 3rd plan is frontal plan (same plan looking on front / in face the human body) on which humerus makes lateral adduction (downward movement) - lateral abduction (downward movment) (involved lateral deltoid muscle). This is the proper terminology in biomechanic, physiology, kinethology
Thanks!
what if I am a very average (or below average) swimmer who takes 30-35secs for 25m? Is it better to have more power or less drag? I am not aiming to compete, just swimming for recreation
Glad to know.
Hi! I have one question: if you look at Sun Yang you can see that he pulls with a very high elbow but its perfectly flat in the water, parallel with the bottom of the pull. so is Ian Thorpe. Other swimmer still pull with an high elbow but on their side, with a slight inclination. What is the most efficient tehnique?
My pull is INWARDS (to the chest) and not below (with elbow far outside) it's another of those things they scold me for. Also I tend to pull very soon as I plunge hand into water.
I am sure it's not the best method but it counters the overuse of the long biceps tendon (both of which I had an injury to). Considering I got just 8' behind the winner of IronMan France (at swimming leg only of course!) I'd say it's not too bad. That's perhaps another of the tips to show in the DVD.
where is that pool i like it
Wow - so close I live in Miami Beach I had no idea. Are there weekend camp session or something like that for adults available ?
Double jointed elbows means that they hyperextend and is a great advantage in streamlining. Make sure you get your arms behind your head (chin on your chest), squeeze your elbows together until they touch (if possible) and pull the shoulders forward as far as possible. You just may have the lowest drag coefficient on the planet with that shape in the water!
What about something like a 50 freestyle? I notice a lot of the pros have a really deep pull in the 50. I swim with a deeper pull as well, but do you think it would be faster to aim for a higher elbow?
If you're a sprint freestyler, stick to a deeper pull. For longer events, pull with a higher elbow.
@@theraceclub okay thank you so much
You're welcome!
hey gary, is there anything i should do differently with double jointed elbows?
This topic has been the biggest debate I have been having with myself, and I really hope I can get a reply for this. I have experimented with both the high and the dropped elbow. The high elbow does create less drag, but because of also the decrease in power, it results in a lot more arm strokes, which isn't efficient. I used to do the high elbow until a personal instructor gave me this drill. She made me put a kick board in between my thighs (so that the kick board was perpendicular to the bottom of the pool) and everytime I pulled with each arm, I would pull all the way back until I touched the kick board behind me. Now obviously this drill was an exaggeration to get me used to the idea of pulling by using the entire surface area of my arm whilst covering as much water as possible to pull, this has dramatically changed my freestyle and transitioned me into the best puller on my team. So, I guess my question is, why the high elbow for me?? Am I doing something wrong?? What's going on here? Thanks @theraceclub
perfumeorpoison Power comes from the surface area of pulling arm/hand (mostly hand) moving backwards and from the rotation of the body which provides a coupling motion while the hand is pulling. If one uses a high elbow pull, it must be used with good body rotation to increase distance per stroke.
Im not Mr Hall but I can tell you that if you pull all the way back to the kick board between your legs, that is an exaggeration and you'll have a flat spot in your stroke - meaning you'll have a period with almost zero return on investment. Concentrating so much effort on that last little bit isn't propelling you forward as much as recovering back to the point of value in your stroke, sooner. It's always better to keep it out in front of you. (it's likely your instructor was simply having you do a drill to fix another issue).
Julie Shriver this kickboard drill has nothing to do with high or straight arm pull. It is used to extend your pull range and simply you generate more power. That's all.
@@mustaphab.1190 that makes sense
What about Sun Yang. He stretches out long with each stroke but his kick looks very light. He appears to do hip driven technique with very little kick?
Sun uses a hip driven freestyle with 2 strong surge kicks (during the 1500). His SR is around 60...but goes to 90 in the last 100 meters with a strong 6 beat kick. Gregorio Paltrinieri uses a hybrid freestyle with a SR of 95 and only one strong down kick (surge kick) after the breath. The two fastest distance swimmers in the world with very different techniques. If they were racing neck and neck, Sun Yang would win at the end because of his stronger kick.
thank you sir. just yesterday my 8 year old son had his swim meet and won 50 breast stroke trial but in 50 fly despite of having a clear lead he finished second towards the end. post race we sat near to a smaller pool near by and discussed the same with him that why his arms were delayed under water and asked him to use this same technique and he felt easy on his arms. sir correct me if im wrong in free and fly I suppose both have almost similar arm cycle , only diff is in fly we use both hands at the same time which is not the case in free, so your explanation would also be applicable in fly pull, isnt it???
last but not the least thank you again for this explanantion , now I am going to show this to my son. and he calls you gary sir by the way :)
would appreceiate your reply.
Yes, you are correct. The mechanics of the fly pull and free pull are very similar. Few differences...but nothing major. Hope your son improves. Please bring him to a Race Club camp. Gary
@@theraceclub thanks for your kind reply. Sir we live in Mumbai, India. I am really not sure how can I put him under your guidance. :) kindly assist.