Hehehe. I wish that were the case. It is mostly people being idiots and panic buying inordinate amounts of ammo because reasons. The same when people buy pasta and toilet paper. I think after the beer pandemic is over, a lot of people are going to be selling ammo that they don't have a chance to use.
@@Heldermaior I am looking forward to having ammo to buy from them. It's not looking good for a peaceful transition of power after the 2020 election in the US. I really pray I am wrong about this.
@@ScottKenny1978 Should Trump lose, I don't think his supporters will have the numbers they think they do. And if they begin domestic terrorism, it will be a fitting end for them.
@@InfamousInternetVillainJackSix Lol I use an ad blocker and donate to Paul's patreon, guess I'm stealing from Paul. Plus, CZcams makes the most money off of ads and Paul is already demonetized to hell and back
@@InfamousInternetVillainJackSix my first post? This is my first post. Ad revenue accounts for a very small percentage of Paul's revenue, and Patreon is his source of revenue off of this channel. And I encourage anybody who doesn't have the time of day to sit around and listen to some bullshit advertisement to use an adblocker. You ain't a better person for licking the corporate boot.
If schools had him teaching his scientific method rather than literally nothing that I got in 15 years of schooling in australia, we would have people able to think.
@@ab5olut3zero95 everything will flow from there. Paul will teach the children about peace through superior firepower and the world will enter an era of peace and harmony that will stand for generations. Its all part of his plan.
A good bonfire going, just relaxed after a day of clean up things that need to be burnt, sat down and seen a new Paul Harrell video. Today turned out to be a pretty good day.
I have shot rifles like the 458 Win Mag and 460 Wby Mag. Those calibers really didn't bother me. The absolute hardest recoiling guns I have fired were the 3.5 inch magnum 12 gauge shotguns. I have a Remington 870 Supermag chambered for the 3.5 inch shells. The shotgun I speak of has not been fired in the past dozen or so year because it's just too brutal to shoot.
@@reshpeck When I decided to buy a 3.5 inch magnum 12 gauge, I made sure I bought one with a polymer stock. I actually hate polymer stocks, but on a heavy recoiling shotgun, the wood is prone to crack and split where it meets with the receiver.
@@chuck300mxc Had a friend who thought he could shoot a double barrel "two trigger" by using both fingers. Was trap shooting with it and worked great. First duck that flew over disappeared in a puff of feathers. Two 3 1/2 Rem. 12 ga Nitro mags. He was on his back gun was in the mud behind him with a cracked stock.
Haven't seen the end of the video yet, but it makes sense. The difference between a 2 3/4 and a three inch shell is six pellets and only a 1/4 inch. That means less powder and a longer pellet column, slower pellets have more time to spread and a longer column probably produces more chaos coming out of the barrel, which would mean more spread. The point of the larger shells seems to be to put more projectiles down range in a larger pattern. Such as if you wanted to hit multiple birds with one shot, or one deer with a very bad shot, but irrelevant if you are engaging one target with decent aim.... And this also explains why 2 3/4 became standard. A most enlightening video.
@@vidard9863 The problem I always saw was nobody kept the pellet count the same but upped the powder charge in a 3 inch shell. This would drastically increase the velocity which depending on if you're using buckshot or slugs could completely change performance. However I believe they didn't because 12 gauge is still a low pressure round and is essentially loaded to black powder specs even to this day albeit with modern powders.
@@Predalien195 the legacy chamber pressure is definitely a problem, however they don't seem to be trying to even get more distance out of the extra space for powder and specialist wads. I wonder if to them the point is just the larger pattern because it does seem to pattern fairly evenly which SEEMS intentional...
Despite the change of jacket I am glad he still had the foresight to select a garment where he could reach into his pockets and bring out ammunition. There’s something very satisfying about pocketing ammo and this gentlemen does it with aplomb.
@@EthanMcKee. That could be connected to that he does almost everything besides recording and the "old guy" is glad he can focus on the high speed camera setup. Breanna has a bit too much energy for me, but I'd really like a rotation between OG(the younger guy), Danny (the one improving his health) and Breanna. (idk if it's spelled like that). Keep in mind that the collaboration is different cause OG is growing his own channel so he does double duty, triple duty counting his regular job.
Wasn’t going to click on the video thinking “oh well, what good can a half inch do”, but then was reminded by a yearning in the back of my brain that maybe it does make a difference. Guess I’ll be reminding my significant other that it doesn’t really matter, citing this presentation as clear evidence! Thanks for the info! 😅
@@jesusisalive3227 Why do you think everything is based on hunting waterfowl from LH556's comment? It's about the shell size and it's not all bird shot, that was just used cause other ammo was unavailable.
I’m glad it was your shoulder taking those 3and a 1/2 loads instead of mine. Years ago I bought a Remington 870 Super Mag with a synthetic stock. I shot one of those shells and it hit my cheekbone harder than any rifle I have and I have a 458 Lott among others. I immediately sold that shotgun as I didn’t want one capable of taking that length of shell again!
I purchased a Mossberg pump when the 3 1/2 in shells came out. Took a few geese and a couple of turkey. It was brutal patterning the gun; it kicks harder than a 458 as you noted. It's still in the back of a closet where it has set unused for 25 years.
I put a polymer folding stock on a Mossberg 500 Persuader and running slugs is like being in a fistfight. Still prefer that to the possibility of dealing with antlers, claws, or fangs.
@@johnshields9110, buy a replacement laminate stock from Boyds. They are well-made and usually require very little work to install them other than using common hand tools. The laminate adds a little weight that will help mitigate the recoil.
Mr. Harrel, your breakdown and analysis of ballistics is borderline biblical in its ability to convey important information. Thank you again for another stellar video.
Dang Paul, I've had a suspicion about the "benefits" of the 3" and the 3-1/2" over the 2-3/4" for years. I always seemed to do as well or better than my friends who insisted that bigger is better. On this particular issue, I win. Thanks for another great video.
Yep, i always outshot the "hardcore duck hunters" that had $1300.00 3.5" shotguns, with my trusty old Mossberg 500 with 3" shells. Birds would pass at too great a distance, all the high dollar camo guns with high dollar shells let loose a barrage of ineffective fire, when some birds circled back for a second pass, closer this time, the ol blued steel and wood 500 would almost always make me proud.
It's certainly good to see a demonstration of the changes in patterning for different length shells for these particular gun+ammunition combinations, my guess is that it is generalizable. I suspect the variation observed is down to modern shotguns being optimised for the shorter shells. It would be interesting to experiment with different chokes and flight control wads to find an optimum setup for longer shells.
Good video. I’m all about 2 3/4 shot shell. My experience in the field has convinced me that it doesn’t make a big enough difference on harvesting birds, ducks, or coyotes to justify the price and RECOIL. Pattern your gun with 2 3/4 inch shells and get out there. Thanks for the video.
This presentation is very informative for those of us that are not smooth bore shooters. Good to know that of the many variables with using shotguns (aside from skill), choke selection and test patterning specific ammo combinations are keys to hunting success. Clearly demonstrates why deer hunting without the slug option using a shotgun is so challenging. Yes there are regions across the country that still forbid hunting deer with rifles or shotgun slugs. As to why this is so... Wildlife control officers still kind of shrug shoulders when I've asked them, except to say, " Those are the rules I didn't write. "
You always have the most interesting test! This is one of many reasons why I have said for years that Paul Harrell has the best channel on all of CZcams!!
@MrCevant I think that’s exactly why he doesn’t. Everyone that you listed likes to take information and base a presentation around it and give you their opinion, while Paul likes to give the information with a bit of brevity and allow you to make up your mind based on the facts.
Outstanding shotgun shooting. This 25 yard, 40 yard, and 50 yard targets with small targets are exceptional I assume most people don't realize how good shot you are. I realize the shotgun had a long barrel. You actually proved how difficult it is to drop any birds or game. Keep up the good work.
every gun, choke, and shell will pattern differently. absolutely have to pattern your setup to figure out what works for your needs. great video as always paul!
the shot column is shortest with 2 3/4 ammo and that may make it the best overall choice. I have guns that only take 2 3/4 and some that take up to 3 1/2. so the old 2 3/4 fits all nicely and is cheaper. thank you for this very helpful video.
Paul, THANK YOU, this was (imho) one of your very best videos ever, particularly because it really educated me on a subject I have had some uncertainties about and because your methodology was insightful and (I’d suggest) entirely valid. My “go to” shotgun is an 870 that chambers all three shell lengths, but invariably is use 2.75 inch shells. Over a good many years, I have found that they unfailing do their job . . . if I do mine. Further, as I’ve gotten older (now in my mid-70’s) I sometimes find the “longer than standard” shells are a little more difficult for me in the days after shooting. So - and I recognize this is a sample size of one - I’ll probably continuing using 2.75 inch shells, and especially for home defense: (1) those 2.75 inch 00 Buck loads are absolutely proven and (2) the extra pellets that go downrange are also extra potential liability . . . and (imho) that is an IMPORTANT consideration. Thanks again, this was a terrific video.
I’ve always used 2.75” 12ga. for anything I’ve needed a shotgun for. Most of my old 870’s, 1100 & Winchester’s (97 & 12) aren’t 3” guns. Only my Mossbergs, one 870 and Winchester 1300 are 3” but I never shoot 3” through them. 2.75” has worked for everything I’ve needed a shotgun for.
Do you like your 1300? It's currently my only 12 gauge and I was thinking about buying an extended magazine tube for it so it could pull home defense duty. Right now, it stays in the safe and I keep a couple handguns and an ar out for home defense.
After all that 3.5" shooting, I'm glad to see you admit to the padded shoulder... My go-to turkey loads are a 3.5" #4 (heavi-shot), and I'm only good for 2 rounds when patterning... They *do* pack a wallop!
An often overlooked aspect of the 3" and 3.5" shells is that of shot column. When the pellets are stacked deeper, the pellets at the bottom (assuming lead here) tend to get deformed more than usual, which in turn can open op patterns more than with 2.75" shells. That's also why a 2.75" 12 gauge shell will generally pattern more tightly than a 20 gauge 2.5" shell with the same shot charge.
@Captain Phlikenpoots go to a bigger city or more anti gun cities we sell it fast but it's very possible to get same with handgun ammo it sells fast but very possible to get if your patient
hi hope shoot-n-see sponsored this episode This is a great episode to demonstrate the importance of patterning your shotgun+choke with your chosen load. EVERY combination has the potential for different results. Just because you shoot a heavier load doesn't mean more pellets in the heart of the pattern; rather, there is the possibility of over-constriction resulting in blown patterns. Step 1: define the situation (Self-defense, goose hunting, pheasant hunting, dove hunting, etc.) Step 2: choose the appropriate pellet size based on shot material and lethality at expected range step 3: choose the highest shot payload that results in comfortable/acceptable recoil for the application step 4: pattern the selected load(s) through your available chokes sizes at the intended distance to determine the best combination of spread + pattern density EVERY DIFFERENT LOAD WILL PATTERN DIFFERENTLY, so wash-rinse-repeat. as a note, pellets from a shotgun bleed velocity so quickly that "high velocity" loads are only very marginally more effective/extended range. Increased penetration/range comes from a larger or denser pellet, not extra velocity.
@Yuck Foutube different strokes. Don't get gin blossoms from it, and it gets the job done. I save the single malt scotch for sipping, ya know. It's beam and bud, just got off work. I'll take it.
Thanks for the video. I've not thought of shooting the 3" or 3.5" shells because I'm mostly thinking of self-defense these days. I could see some advantage to putting more 00 buck pellets downrange if I were facing a mob of attackers at a distance. A year ago, I would never have thought that scenario possible. I still see the likelihood as very low. I keep myself isolated in the country, but the information doesn't seem as useless as it once did. I don't expect to shoot skeet again or shoot birds, but this would be worth knowing if I could get into those activities.
This guy's got the patience of Job. Somewhat dry and clinical in presentation but very thorough and informative. Exactly what you want from a researcher.
Liked the comparasion Paul. All I know, is when I used to hunt deer with dogs we used 12 guage buckshot. The 3 inch buckshot always seemed to give us better chance of hitting that buck running wide open in the thicket. If you could handle the recoil , most everyone preferred it to 2 3/4 inch magnum with 12 pellets.
Oooooh! It's Paul! Paul, I gave you direct orders to notify me when you're back in Missouri. These Hirtenberger Buscadero Ticondas aren't going to shoot themselves. lol
If you have been a waterfowl hunter for several decades and you are a gun crank then you already fully understand the reasons for the different types or lengths of the new ammo. When I started hunting waterfowl I used 2 3/4. When Steel shot was mandated I went to the 3 inch. A few friends went to the 3 1/2 inch. I even have a few that went to the 3 1/2 inch 10 gauge. It was all due to the properties of the steel shot. I had a patterning boar in the front yard so I tested all the steel shot loads I could then bought several cases of the one that worked best in my guns. I'm still shooting the same ammo I bought back then and it is no longer manufactured. I have it in 2s and 3s. There is better ammo made today but I knew what the price changes would be as the crap got better. I was even on the Bismuth testing team and they screwed us too but that is another story!!
FWIW: Upon doing research into the 3-1/2” 12ga beast, I read that this shell was developed in response to the prolific banning of the use of lead shot in shotguns. Steel and other less dense shot suffers more ballistic loss (energy/power) at distances of ~40-50yds. As an attempt to mitigate this problem, the 3-1/2” 12ga shell was introduced to “mimic the ballistics of the 10ga”....giving the shot a greater INITIAL velocity to hopefully compensate for less power down range. That being said.....I fired one 3-1/2” Heavi shell out of my Beretta to pattern it........ *ONE!!!* That was *BY FAR* the hardest recoil that I’ve *EVER* experienced and I can promise you that I ever *WILL* experience......🖕🖕🖕🖕 You guys can HAVE those damn things!!!! ✌️👋
12-gauge 3.5 shells: For when you hate "that general direction" and your shoulder all at the same time, accept no substitutes! Gods, can you imagine if someone loaded one of those with a foster slug...
@@opscontaylor8195 some company loads onea with a sabot slug, 600 grains. It has about 5000 ftlbs of energy, placing it in the elephant rifle category. Granted, at the lower end. My guess is that the slug isn't hard enough to be used on elephant effectively, as you need a hard projectile that won't shatter
I wake up at 2:30am because my bladder wanted to go walkies (anyone remember that woman and her show?) and when I get back to bed I discover a new Paul Harrell video. It's a better day than I started out with. 😁👍
I tested Fiochi 2&3/4", 00-buck, 9 pellet in my mossberg 590A1 to get the sights right. Sights were right from the factory (surprised me). At 25yards it consistantly shot 8" groups. This is for my house gun. Yes, as the distance decreased it got better and better. I was lucky I had a healthy stash before the ammo dried up. Like Paul, my results with Rem ammo were more spread out. No 50 yard testing. Where I live a 50 yard engagement ain't happening. For that, the AR comes out. The shotgun is for inside the house. Good info in your video Paul.
every time I watch one of his videos, I learn that many of the things I just assume about guns or things I have heard are just wrong. Good thing I like learning
I've never seen enough difference between regular 2&3/4" and magnum 3" to feel the need to buy an extra gun dedicated to 3&1/2" super mags. It would appear this demonstration shows the same.
I own a Remington 870 with a polymer stock chambered for the 3.5 inch mag. That gun sits in my gun safe collecting dust because the recoil is just overwhelming. I watched Paul shooting in this video and I am impressed. I personally can't fire more than five of the 3.5 inch loads before it becomes too painful.
Good info! Thank you again! Side note: I visited several sporting goods and gun shops today. I posted on FB asking why Federal Premium turkey loads were $11 a shell for 3.5". Got a 30 day ban. "Violates community standards for regulated items." I look back. I didn't post a photo of the ammo, just a check-in and a question. 20% of all of the photos I post are of ammunition. But me asking about the cost of ammunition got me banned
Please make a video. Your the only one on CZcams that educates and I'm fascinated to hear what you have to say about that. Take that into consideration please I'd love to hear back from you. As alway, thanks for your content. I always learn from this channel. Best hands down in fundamental and educational and of course safe shooting.
@@maeus8220 I dunno what it is, snakes, rats, roaches, other big ass insects..nothing. Even scorpions I'm fine with lol just not spiders and the bigger and furrier the more I lose my mind.
Hi Paul. I would like to thank you for your videos and dedication. I'm from Brasil, I don't have a gun, nor fired one yet, but even for a guy like me, your videos are awesome. It's so relaxing to ear you talking. I really appreciate your simplicity, humbleness and your approach to every subject you talk about. I have one suggestion: reflex sight, red dot and etc. Keep doing this great job, you have no idea of how you help people over the internet.. some people want information, some people just want to hear something and chill for some moments... You can provide both, information and a good relaxing time. Thank you buddy...
Browning mid-tier steel 3.5" will get 1.5 oz at 1500 FPS. Other makers offer similar shells for $25/box(or less if you shop smart/in bulk). The Olin ammo shown here costs $18-22/box, and it is worse by every metric. To me, the take-away is that hunting shotgun shells have a WIDE range of quality and you can get a lot less than what you've paid for. For busting clays, cost is all that counts, but if an extra $4/box gets me a Sandhill or Canada that would've otherwise gotten away, it is well worth it.
The first video of Paul’s where I own exact duplicates of the guns in the video. Very cool. Bought my 835 ultimag when I was only 13 years old with birthday money that I saved up. My father had a good laugh watching me shoot 3.5”turkey loads as a 130lb pre teen. 590a1 special purpose was a pawnshop buy when I was a few years older. Still a kid at heart, I insisted the broker throw in an m7 bayonet he had in the knife case 🤣.
I saw the title, and the first thing I thought to myself is "I feel bad for Paul." This one couldn't have been fun to make. I guess ill find out in about 18 minutes and 34 seconds if his shoulder is still intact. I have fired some 3.50 turkey tungsten loads.... NOPE I would rather shoot a 416 Rigby again
Paul, I want to thank you for teaching me a really valuable technique for running a pump shotgun. I really have been practicing on taking the pause between breaking the shot and cycling the action out. Very helpful, sir. Thanks
Really enjoyed this video, especially as I am strictly a self-defense shotgun shooter. I'd like to see the same comparison done with slugs in 2-3/4", 3", and 3-1/2"...
There are only TWO times that you can definitely say that one length of shell is better than another - One, when that's the only length your ammo supplier has in stock - and two, when that's all that you have in your ammo bag - or to paraphrase what a wise man once said, the ammo you have, is always better than the ammo you don't.
7:31-7:39 sounded like Paul was wrapping!! Hahahah that was great! 15:08 "Cut print." was another funny part. In seriousness thought, Paul does a great job presenting.
I’d like to keep my shoulder and teeth safe from the abuse of 3-1/2 inch magnums... However 👉🏻 Velocity is much lower with heavier longer loads... A good choke tube will significantly tighten the pattern at distances... IC / M / F / Steel BB F
@@69CamaroSS I shot one or two of my buddy’s 3.5” slugs, just to say I did, and just to say “f that noise”. I don’t even really like 3” slugs, but the Magpul stock actually makes those a little better to shoot.
Thank you Paul I've had a long-standing argument with a friend about this... In your results are confirmed with my results when I did very similar testing...
Now we know the real reason for the ammo and weapon shortage....Paul has ANOTHER Shooting jacket....
Hehehe. I wish that were the case. It is mostly people being idiots and panic buying inordinate amounts of ammo because reasons. The same when people buy pasta and toilet paper.
I think after the beer pandemic is over, a lot of people are going to be selling ammo that they don't have a chance to use.
@@Heldermaior I am looking forward to having ammo to buy from them.
It's not looking good for a peaceful transition of power after the 2020 election in the US. I really pray I am wrong about this.
@@ScottKenny1978 Should Trump lose, I don't think his supporters will have the numbers they think they do. And if they begin domestic terrorism, it will be a fitting end for them.
@@Heldermaior I'm actually more worried about the other way. Should Trump win, I expect massive violent protests.
@@Heldermaior i think he has more supporters then you think. Just look at the number of supporters at President Trumps rallies compared to Biden's.
In the midst of political ads, it's so refreshing to watch Paul uninterrupted.
My Sunday got much better!!
I just installed an Ad Blocker for Firefox and I have no idea why I didnt do it sooner.
I always hit the thumbs down on liberal political ads if they allow feed back
@@InfamousInternetVillainJackSix Lol I use an ad blocker and donate to Paul's patreon, guess I'm stealing from Paul. Plus, CZcams makes the most money off of ads and Paul is already demonetized to hell and back
@@InfamousInternetVillainJackSix my first post? This is my first post. Ad revenue accounts for a very small percentage of Paul's revenue, and Patreon is his source of revenue off of this channel. And I encourage anybody who doesn't have the time of day to sit around and listen to some bullshit advertisement to use an adblocker.
You ain't a better person for licking the corporate boot.
! :&ll
Paul Harrell is the teacher we all wanted but never deserved. .
If schools had him teaching his scientific method rather than literally nothing that I got in 15 years of schooling in australia, we would have people able to think.
and he cant throw us out of class.
Paul Harrell for secretary of education!
@@regularfather4708 and defense
@@ab5olut3zero95 everything will flow from there. Paul will teach the children about peace through superior firepower and the world will enter an era of peace and harmony that will stand for generations.
Its all part of his plan.
A good bonfire going, just relaxed after a day of clean up things that need to be burnt, sat down and seen a new Paul Harrell video. Today turned out to be a pretty good day.
Spider gets home from work: Hey kids, you'll never guess what happened to me today!
You mean all the ones chewed up by the birdshot lol.
No, the one at the start.
@@warrenmargetson597 That spider was a female...
@@Des420 female spiders dont goto work?
@@warrenmargetson597 Male spiders don't tend to build webs in most species. They go off looking for females' burrows/webs, etc. for breeding.
With such a limited supply and type of ammunition, that was very informative and well put together. Thank you Mr. Harrell.
Paul, you're a national treasure friend. Nothin but love.
Let us all have a moment of silence and may be a short pray for Paul's shoulder.
I'd be more concerned with the condition of his gun stocks
I have shot rifles like the 458 Win Mag and 460 Wby Mag. Those calibers really didn't bother me. The absolute hardest recoiling guns I have fired were the 3.5 inch magnum 12 gauge shotguns. I have a Remington 870 Supermag chambered for the 3.5 inch shells. The shotgun I speak of has not been fired in the past dozen or so year because it's just too brutal to shoot.
@@reshpeck When I decided to buy a 3.5 inch magnum 12 gauge, I made sure I bought one with a polymer stock. I actually hate polymer stocks, but on a heavy recoiling shotgun, the wood is prone to crack and split where it meets with the receiver.
Try shooting a 10 gauge single shot with a 36 in barrel, with 3 1/2 Nitro Mag shells......kills at both ends. Lol
@@chuck300mxc Had a friend who thought he could shoot a double barrel "two trigger" by using both fingers. Was trap shooting with it and worked great. First duck that flew over disappeared in a puff of feathers. Two 3 1/2 Rem. 12 ga Nitro mags. He was on his back gun was in the mud behind him with a cracked stock.
This what is a very good comparison and it makes a lot of sense, i’ve killed plenty of turkeys with 2 3/4inch shells
Haven't seen the end of the video yet, but it makes sense. The difference between a 2 3/4 and a three inch shell is six pellets and only a 1/4 inch. That means less powder and a longer pellet column, slower pellets have more time to spread and a longer column probably produces more chaos coming out of the barrel, which would mean more spread. The point of the larger shells seems to be to put more projectiles down range in a larger pattern. Such as if you wanted to hit multiple birds with one shot, or one deer with a very bad shot, but irrelevant if you are engaging one target with decent aim.... And this also explains why 2 3/4 became standard. A most enlightening video.
@@vidard9863 The problem I always saw was nobody kept the pellet count the same but upped the powder charge in a 3 inch shell. This would drastically increase the velocity which depending on if you're using buckshot or slugs could completely change performance. However I believe they didn't because 12 gauge is still a low pressure round and is essentially loaded to black powder specs even to this day albeit with modern powders.
@@Predalien195 the legacy chamber pressure is definitely a problem, however they don't seem to be trying to even get more distance out of the extra space for powder and specialist wads. I wonder if to them the point is just the larger pattern because it does seem to pattern fairly evenly which SEEMS intentional...
The main reason I went with 3" for my turkey loads was to keep them separate from my upland and sporting clays loads.
Latigo Morgan I usually use 3 inch for the same reason
Despite the change of jacket I am glad he still had the foresight to select a garment where he could reach into his pockets and bring out ammunition. There’s something very satisfying about pocketing ammo and this gentlemen does it with aplomb.
I love those Mary Poppins pockets!
Had to look up the word aplomb. Never seen it used in my 40+ years on this rock...good on you sir. You used that word with atypical aplomb.
There is significantly more science to ammunition choice than I realized. Great video! Thanks Paul.
Yeah, this can get pretty complicated at times, though it never stops being interesting.
Are you aware of the Taofledermaus channel? You might want to check that out as well.
@@onpsxmember the younger guy gets on my nerves. He seems to get noticeably aggravated at old man all the time and acts like a smartass
@@EthanMcKee.
That could be connected to that he does almost everything besides recording and the "old guy" is glad he can focus on the high speed camera setup. Breanna has a bit too much energy for me, but I'd really like a rotation between OG(the younger guy), Danny (the one improving his health) and Breanna. (idk if it's spelled like that). Keep in mind that the collaboration is different cause OG is growing his own channel so he does double duty, triple duty counting his regular job.
@@EthanMcKee. I have no idea what you are on about. I think your brain might be damaged.
Relax everyone, Paul didn’t get a new jacket. He’s not wearing a shirt in this episode.
No no. My wife and I have seen him without a shirt on, and now I feel inadequate and my wife left.
What are you talking about? I was wondering why Paul had only head, hands and legs. And the pulled ammo boxes from thin air.
Not sure.....all I saw was beige trousers walking around with a shotgun floating in mid air.....camo you say?
👍
Just illustrates that when Paul travels far from home he considers it prudent to do
so only in camouflage.
I just wanna say how much I love this channel
Please keep doing what you're doing
Paul used the jacket with "the thickest padded shooting shoulder" for this video because he didn't want to damage his shotguns.
Nice
😂 Paul is the Chuck Norris of gun videos.
Missouri! I live outside KC. We should have rolled out the red carpet. Glad to have you in this neck of the woods.
Wasn’t going to click on the video thinking “oh well, what good can a half inch do”, but then was reminded by a yearning in the back of my brain that maybe it does make a difference.
Guess I’ll be reminding my significant other that it doesn’t really matter, citing this presentation as clear evidence! Thanks for the info! 😅
He's a lucky to have you.
let us know if she buys it
The grass and crickets are nice.
We already have a foot of snow here in Wyoming.
Great presentation as usual.
Dang this makes my night! I was just lamenting that he hadn't put one out this week at all, and dang if you didn't put one of his videos up tonight!
Went on youtube hoping for a video for tonight, showed up a minute into the upload, gotta love paul's material
Thinking the same. I was like, "Where's Mr. Harrell? So unlike him to miss a week." and yet here he is. All is well now.
Welp...I was going to sleep guess I’ll be awake for another 19 minutes 🤣👍
Are you kidding? After watching this, you won’t sleep for days.
Same here. Lol.
Yep, now its time for bed.
Exactly my situation.... Now I am afraid of nightmares... I have shot 3.5 tungsten turkey loads before
Watch at 1.5x or 2x speed. It helps watching through more vids :)
It’s just like my wife says: 2.75 inches should be enough for anyone!
NOICE, LMAO.
For the win!
It's all about the velocity 😂
My wife said give me 9 inches and make it hurt
So I did it 3 times, then pinched her!
@@Tyrfingr and number of impacts in the vital center of the target
The subtitles for the first shot reads [applause]. This is the most incidental metastatement since speech to text operated at a functional level.
This video has everything !!! New jacket, Missouri, spiders !!!!
But no meat target.
@@dr.floridamanphd damn ammo shortage...!
Where in Missouri(Missoura if you are a native in some areas)
@@patrickgriffitt6551, I think Joplin.
I think that was the first time I've ever heard Paul's directorial in the footage with a "cut, print".
Someone will be getting the "meat target treatment" for that f-up.
I actually kind of liked it. I'd like to see 20 minutes of Pauls' outtakes and bloopers (not that Paul ever blooped anything).
15:09
Can we get some behind the scenes best of compilation?
"Paul Harrell's Top Takes" maybe?
Paul's gonna be using his editor as a meat target
Paul only needs 1 take.
@@imissyoujimmy lol
Paul is relaxed at a training facility in Missouri hence the faux pas
@@phantom629 its not a faux pas, its a Harrelism.
I look forward to watching Paul pull things out of his coat in a controlled and properly oriented fashion. It just really works for me. Carry on Paul!
Videos like these are what makes this channel so great.
The Hunting Jacket has evolved...
Evolved but also devolved.... Pockets haven't increased the amount of guns they can fit
@@ahuman2695 you just cant see them due to the new camo design
@@ZSmith-yy4lv wait, he is wearing camo? I thought part of his torso disappeared
What jacket?
@@alexduke5402 i am wondering tge same thing
1. Watch a Paul Harrell video.
2. Dump a bunch of my previous conceptions.
Thanks, Paul!
Thank you for showing the difference between the two length of rounds.
First off let me state that I LOVE your videos. I thoroughly enjoy what others have called long winded explanations.
you'll also get an extra shell in the gun with a 2 3/4 typically. i'd like to see a 10ga vs 12ga video
Only allowed 3 shells no matter what if your hunting waterfowl.
@@jesusisalive3227
Why do you think everything is based on hunting waterfowl from LH556's comment? It's about the shell size and it's not all bird shot, that was just used cause other ammo was unavailable.
@@onpsxmember
Thats why I said......IF...... you are waterfowl hunting!
I too would like 10gauge vs 12 gauge
@@kirkleeser8460
Thx for watching the shoulder killer video.
Fellow Missouri boy here just subscribed love the no bullshit content. Straight to the point and clear
I’m glad it was your shoulder taking those 3and a 1/2 loads instead of mine. Years ago I bought a Remington 870 Super Mag with a synthetic stock. I shot one of those shells and it hit my cheekbone harder than any rifle I have and I have a 458 Lott among others. I immediately sold that shotgun as I didn’t want one capable of taking that length of shell again!
I purchased a Mossberg pump when the 3 1/2 in shells came out. Took a few geese and a couple of turkey. It was brutal patterning the gun; it kicks harder than a 458 as you noted. It's still in the back of a closet where it has set unused for 25 years.
I put a polymer folding stock on a Mossberg 500 Persuader and running slugs is like being in a fistfight.
Still prefer that to the possibility of dealing with antlers, claws, or fangs.
@@johnshields9110, buy a replacement laminate stock from Boyds. They are well-made and usually require very little work to install them other than using common hand tools. The laminate adds a little weight that will help mitigate the recoil.
@@johnshields9110 pretty sad reading these boyish comments.
3 minutes and its already got 500+ plus views.
I can feel the excitement
Mr. Harrel, your breakdown and analysis of ballistics is borderline biblical in its ability to convey important information. Thank you again for another stellar video.
Paul wouldn't forget about his water damaged laptop at the repair shop.
Paul would never have a water damaged laptop.
2ndarymotion it would be damaged by orange soda beverages
lol love it.
After watching Paul's Miami/Dade analysis I'm pretty convinced he doesn't believe in rain.
Oh god!!! Most people won't get it. Good job.
Dang Paul, I've had a suspicion about the "benefits" of the 3" and the 3-1/2" over the 2-3/4" for years. I always seemed to do as well or better than my friends who insisted that bigger is better. On this particular issue, I win. Thanks for another great video.
Depends how bad a shot they actually are. Those are clearly larger patterns.
But did you win? Well... you be the judge.
Oh. Wait. You... already did that.
Yep, i always outshot the "hardcore duck hunters" that had $1300.00 3.5" shotguns, with my trusty old Mossberg 500 with 3" shells. Birds would pass at too great a distance, all the high dollar camo guns with high dollar shells let loose a barrage of ineffective fire, when some birds circled back for a second pass, closer this time, the ol blued steel and wood 500 would almost always make me proud.
If Paul Harrell has taught me one thing, it's that fancy hypermagnumplusplusPPP ammo is generally little better than remington green and white box.
It's certainly good to see a demonstration of the changes in patterning for different length shells for these particular gun+ammunition combinations, my guess is that it is generalizable. I suspect the variation observed is down to modern shotguns being optimised for the shorter shells. It would be interesting to experiment with different chokes and flight control wads to find an optimum setup for longer shells.
Good video. I’m all about 2 3/4 shot shell. My experience in the field has convinced me that it doesn’t make a big enough difference on harvesting birds, ducks, or coyotes to justify the price and RECOIL. Pattern your gun with 2 3/4 inch shells and get out there. Thanks for the video.
Just when I was beginning to think that today was a wash...Mr.Harrel blesses me with another bit of useful knowledge.👍
This presentation is very informative for those of us that are not smooth bore shooters. Good to know that of the many variables with using shotguns (aside from skill), choke selection and test patterning specific ammo combinations are keys to hunting success. Clearly demonstrates why deer hunting without the slug option using a shotgun is so challenging. Yes there are regions across the country that still forbid hunting deer with rifles or shotgun slugs. As to why this is so... Wildlife control officers still kind of shrug shoulders when I've asked them, except to say, " Those are the rules I didn't write. "
You always have the most interesting test! This is one of many reasons why I have said for years that Paul Harrell has the best channel on all of CZcams!!
Seeing a new Paul Harrell video is like finding another package under the Christmas tree...YESSSSS!!!
After a year of watching Pauls videos, I find myself talking to people about Caveats and holding up fingers to show how many points I need to make. 😁
the man always uploads when im going to bed but the info is so good i always stay up
INSTANT CLICK
Yes
And like
Instant like
Swear dude, I dropped everything 🤣
8816 even before the video started
How does he not have 1 million subs yet!?
@MrCevant I think that’s exactly why he doesn’t. Everyone that you listed likes to take information and base a presentation around it and give you their opinion, while Paul likes to give the information with a bit of brevity and allow you to make up your mind based on the facts.
Outstanding shotgun shooting. This 25 yard, 40 yard, and 50 yard targets with small targets are exceptional I assume most people don't realize how good shot you are. I realize the shotgun had a long barrel. You actually proved how difficult it is to drop any birds or game. Keep up the good work.
every gun, choke, and shell will pattern differently. absolutely have to pattern your setup to figure out what works for your needs. great video as always paul!
YES SIR, Just like a rifle.
Probably one of your best and most educational videos to date. Thank you, Paul.
Thanks for crunching all those numbers and letting us see patterns. Very useful info.
You always know when it is going to start getting cold when you start seeing orb weaver spiders in their webs by your door and gutters in Missouri.
Paul is the Professor of Ballistics.
Oh shit nice I wanted something to vibe to while I drank and ate prierogies
Same
Mmm potato pasta time
Mood
Potato pierogis with bits of chopped up bacon are the best. That and meat.
Dang. Gotta go buy some pierogies tomorrow.
the shot column is shortest with 2 3/4 ammo and that may make it the best overall choice. I have guns that only take 2 3/4 and some that take up to 3 1/2. so the old 2 3/4 fits all nicely and is cheaper. thank you for this very helpful video.
Paul, THANK YOU, this was (imho) one of your very best videos ever, particularly because it really educated me on a subject I have had some uncertainties about and because your methodology was insightful and (I’d suggest) entirely valid. My “go to” shotgun is an 870 that chambers all three shell lengths, but invariably is use 2.75 inch shells. Over a good many years, I have found that they unfailing do their job . . . if I do mine. Further, as I’ve gotten older (now in my mid-70’s) I sometimes find the “longer than standard” shells are a little more difficult for me in the days after shooting. So - and I recognize this is a sample size of one - I’ll probably continuing using 2.75 inch shells, and especially for home defense: (1) those 2.75 inch 00 Buck loads are absolutely proven and (2) the extra pellets that go downrange are also extra potential liability . . . and (imho) that is an IMPORTANT consideration.
Thanks again, this was a terrific video.
I’ve always used 2.75” 12ga. for anything I’ve needed a shotgun for. Most of my old 870’s, 1100 & Winchester’s (97 & 12) aren’t 3” guns. Only my Mossbergs, one 870 and Winchester 1300 are 3” but I never shoot 3” through them. 2.75” has worked for everything I’ve needed a shotgun for.
Do you like your 1300? It's currently my only 12 gauge and I was thinking about buying an extended magazine tube for it so it could pull home defense duty. Right now, it stays in the safe and I keep a couple handguns and an ar out for home defense.
Imo that 1300 makes a great slug gun. Didn't they make a 1300 deer Slayer model years ago?
3" or 3.5" are handy for goose im told but not necessary , 2.75 worked fine for me as well :)
@@boomerisadog3899 i love my 1300 defender, long mag and 20 barrel. I just love the speed cycle system, nothing cycles like them.
@@boomerisadog3899 The 1300 is an excellent shotgun. I would like to have a couple more.
After all that 3.5" shooting, I'm glad to see you admit to the padded shoulder... My go-to turkey loads are a 3.5" #4 (heavi-shot), and I'm only good for 2 rounds when patterning... They *do* pack a wallop!
One of the great things about a hunting jacket. Well that and of course those pockets.
Very educational. I always assumed bigger was better. Nothing but 2 3/4 inch shells from now on, assuming I can find a store with some in stock...
I've been waiting for this video! Thanks Paul!
An often overlooked aspect of the 3" and 3.5" shells is that of shot column.
When the pellets are stacked deeper, the pellets at the bottom (assuming lead here) tend to get deformed more than usual, which in turn can open op patterns more than with 2.75" shells.
That's also why a 2.75" 12 gauge shell will generally pattern more tightly than a 20 gauge 2.5" shell with the same shot charge.
Paul Harrell if you want some 3.5" buck shot let me know I have a "few boxes" I might be able to get to you ....
will send likes for ammo. One like = one pellet
@Captain Phlikenpoots go to a bigger city or more anti gun cities we sell it fast but it's very possible to get same with handgun ammo it sells fast but very possible to get if your patient
My city is 90% dem, I bought m193 last week for 35cpr!
hi hope shoot-n-see sponsored this episode
This is a great episode to demonstrate the importance of patterning your shotgun+choke with your chosen load. EVERY combination has the potential for different results. Just because you shoot a heavier load doesn't mean more pellets in the heart of the pattern; rather, there is the possibility of over-constriction resulting in blown patterns.
Step 1: define the situation (Self-defense, goose hunting, pheasant hunting, dove hunting, etc.)
Step 2: choose the appropriate pellet size based on shot material and lethality at expected range
step 3: choose the highest shot payload that results in comfortable/acceptable recoil for the application
step 4: pattern the selected load(s) through your available chokes sizes at the intended distance to determine the best combination of spread + pattern density
EVERY DIFFERENT LOAD WILL PATTERN DIFFERENTLY, so wash-rinse-repeat.
as a note, pellets from a shotgun bleed velocity so quickly that "high velocity" loads are only very marginally more effective/extended range. Increased penetration/range comes from a larger or denser pellet, not extra velocity.
Hot dog, 1 minute in for Pauls new video. Shot of beam and a beer, life's good
@Yuck Foutube different strokes. Don't get gin blossoms from it, and it gets the job done. I save the single malt scotch for sipping, ya know. It's beam and bud, just got off work. I'll take it.
For sure. At least a double ( or triple) for me and a brew is a nice start.
@@Tnuggz420 jesus. Yeah, I do drink scotch. Islay isle is my jam. I'm eating frozen food after a 13 hour shift and drinking a bud, read the room.
Pattern at 50 yards was way better than I expected. Thanks for the data paul.
Thanks for the video. I've not thought of shooting the 3" or 3.5" shells because I'm mostly thinking of self-defense these days. I could see some advantage to putting more 00 buck pellets downrange if I were facing a mob of attackers at a distance. A year ago, I would never have thought that scenario possible. I still see the likelihood as very low. I keep myself isolated in the country, but the information doesn't seem as useless as it once did. I don't expect to shoot skeet again or shoot birds, but this would be worth knowing if I could get into those activities.
This guy's got the patience of Job. Somewhat dry and clinical in presentation but very thorough and informative. Exactly what you want from a researcher.
"redundant demonstration" translation "gonna be a good video!"
not dissappointed!
I watch these videos to chill out. And also because guns are cool and learning is fun.
Liked the comparasion Paul. All I know, is when I used to hunt deer with dogs we used 12 guage buckshot. The 3 inch buckshot always seemed to give us better chance of hitting that buck running wide open in the thicket. If you could handle the recoil , most everyone preferred it to 2 3/4 inch magnum with 12 pellets.
Oooooh! It's Paul! Paul, I gave you direct orders to notify me when you're back in Missouri. These Hirtenberger Buscadero Ticondas aren't going to shoot themselves. lol
Dont shoot the tiiicooondaaas!
If you have been a waterfowl hunter for several decades and you are a gun crank then you already fully understand the reasons for the different types or lengths of the new ammo.
When I started hunting waterfowl I used 2 3/4. When Steel shot was mandated I went to the 3 inch. A few friends went to the 3 1/2 inch. I even have a few that went to the 3 1/2 inch 10 gauge. It was all due to the properties of the steel shot. I had a patterning boar in the front yard so I tested all the steel shot loads I could then bought several cases of the one that worked best in my guns. I'm still shooting the same ammo I bought back then and it is no longer manufactured. I have it in 2s and 3s. There is better ammo made today but I knew what the price changes would be as the crap got better.
I was even on the Bismuth testing team and they screwed us too but that is another story!!
FWIW: Upon doing research into the 3-1/2” 12ga beast, I read that this shell was developed in response to the prolific banning of the use of lead shot in shotguns. Steel and other less dense shot suffers more ballistic loss (energy/power) at distances of ~40-50yds. As an attempt to mitigate this problem, the 3-1/2” 12ga shell was introduced to “mimic the ballistics of the 10ga”....giving the shot a greater INITIAL velocity to hopefully compensate for less power down range. That being said.....I fired one 3-1/2” Heavi shell out of my Beretta to pattern it........ *ONE!!!* That was *BY FAR* the hardest recoil that I’ve *EVER* experienced and I can promise you that I ever *WILL* experience......🖕🖕🖕🖕 You guys can HAVE those damn things!!!! ✌️👋
12-gauge 3.5 shells: For when you hate "that general direction" and your shoulder all at the same time, accept no substitutes!
Gods, can you imagine if someone loaded one of those with a foster slug...
@@opscontaylor8195 some company loads onea with a sabot slug, 600 grains. It has about 5000 ftlbs of energy, placing it in the elephant rifle category. Granted, at the lower end. My guess is that the slug isn't hard enough to be used on elephant effectively, as you need a hard projectile that won't shatter
@@flightlesschicken7769 Yeah, I never want to shoot that, or have a need to shoot that. Ever.
@@opscontaylor8195 I sort of want to shoot one of the slugs. Just to say I did
Said the guy who went .060 over.
From the guy who went .030 over.
I wake up at 2:30am because my bladder wanted to go walkies (anyone remember that woman and her show?) and when I get back to bed I discover a new Paul Harrell video. It's a better day than I started out with. 😁👍
I always love Paul's shotgun content.
I tested Fiochi 2&3/4", 00-buck, 9 pellet in my mossberg 590A1 to get the sights right. Sights were right from the factory (surprised me). At 25yards it consistantly shot 8" groups. This is for my house gun. Yes, as the distance decreased it got better and better. I was lucky I had a healthy stash before the ammo dried up. Like Paul, my results with Rem ammo were more spread out.
No 50 yard testing. Where I live a 50 yard engagement ain't happening. For that, the AR comes out. The shotgun is for inside the house.
Good info in your video Paul.
It's gonna be a good week, fellas. Hope you're doing well, Paul.
Thank you Paul
every time I watch one of his videos, I learn that many of the things I just assume about guns or things I have heard are just wrong. Good thing I like learning
Love the jacket Paul. You’re looking like a real life GI Joe
I've never seen enough difference between regular 2&3/4" and magnum 3" to feel the need to buy an extra gun dedicated to 3&1/2" super mags.
It would appear this demonstration shows the same.
My SX4 is chambered for 3.5" but I never had any intention to use them. I have been buying a lot of 3" because that's what is available.
The 3.5 always seemed kinda gimmicky to me. With current 2 3/4 ammo today as good as it is, it seems pretty obsolete.
I own a Remington 870 with a polymer stock chambered for the 3.5 inch mag. That gun sits in my gun safe collecting dust because the recoil is just overwhelming. I watched Paul shooting in this video and I am impressed. I personally can't fire more than five of the 3.5 inch loads before it becomes too painful.
Good info! Thank you again!
Side note: I visited several sporting goods and gun shops today. I posted on FB asking why Federal Premium turkey loads were $11 a shell for 3.5". Got a 30 day ban. "Violates community standards for regulated items." I look back. I didn't post a photo of the ammo, just a check-in and a question. 20% of all of the photos I post are of ammunition. But me asking about the cost of ammunition got me banned
Apparently, the "algorithm" is not a fan of the 2nd Amendment. Or the 1st, come to think of it. 🤖🔫
Just about to lights out (830pm) but I'll stay up a little while longer for this.
Please make a video. Your the only one on CZcams that educates and I'm fascinated to hear what you have to say about that. Take that into consideration please I'd love to hear back from you. As alway, thanks for your content. I always learn from this channel. Best hands down in fundamental and educational and of course safe shooting.
I live in Missouri. We just carry a stick out in front of us for the spiders
I live in South Carolina and it's honestly the same.
Missouri here too, Its wolf spider mating season and the fuckers are everywhere. I'm considering trading a gun for a flamethrower.
I'm from Illinois and have crippling arachnophobia. That's all.
@@TRIIGGAVELLI I feel your pain. I was an arachnophobe too, but now I can tolerate all but the big spiders.
@@maeus8220 I dunno what it is, snakes, rats, roaches, other big ass insects..nothing. Even scorpions I'm fine with lol just not spiders and the bigger and furrier the more I lose my mind.
Should have known to come see the master first. Already have my questions answered. Thanks Paul.
15:08 you can hear him say "cut"
*Edited for spelling*
'cut, print'
And print!
@@DoyleFuckinHargraves you're right!
That and the wrong jacket indicates paul was replaced by aliens.
@@kendric98 he's a superior specimen of the human species and was abducted for testing
Hi Paul. I would like to thank you for your videos and dedication. I'm from Brasil, I don't have a gun, nor fired one yet, but even for a guy like me, your videos are awesome. It's so relaxing to ear you talking. I really appreciate your simplicity, humbleness and your approach to every subject you talk about. I have one suggestion: reflex sight, red dot and etc. Keep doing this great job, you have no idea of how you help people over the internet.. some people want information, some people just want to hear something and chill for some moments... You can provide both, information and a good relaxing time. Thank you buddy...
Browning mid-tier steel 3.5" will get 1.5 oz at 1500 FPS. Other makers offer similar shells for $25/box(or less if you shop smart/in bulk). The Olin ammo shown here costs $18-22/box, and it is worse by every metric. To me, the take-away is that hunting shotgun shells have a WIDE range of quality and you can get a lot less than what you've paid for. For busting clays, cost is all that counts, but if an extra $4/box gets me a Sandhill or Canada that would've otherwise gotten away, it is well worth it.
The first video of Paul’s where I own exact duplicates of the guns in the video. Very cool. Bought my 835 ultimag when I was only 13 years old with birthday money that I saved up. My father had a good laugh watching me shoot 3.5”turkey loads as a 130lb pre teen. 590a1 special purpose was a pawnshop buy when I was a few years older. Still a kid at heart, I insisted the broker throw in an m7 bayonet he had in the knife case 🤣.
I saw the title, and the first thing I thought to myself is "I feel bad for Paul." This one couldn't have been fun to make. I guess ill find out in about 18 minutes and 34 seconds if his shoulder is still intact.
I have fired some 3.50 turkey tungsten loads.... NOPE I would rather shoot a 416 Rigby again
Paul, I want to thank you for teaching me a really valuable technique for running a pump shotgun. I really have been practicing on taking the pause between breaking the shot and cycling the action out. Very helpful, sir. Thanks
Really enjoyed this video, especially as I am strictly a self-defense shotgun shooter. I'd like to see the same comparison done with slugs in 2-3/4", 3", and 3-1/2"...
Same
they make 3-1/2" slugs?
Mr. Harrell is my Favorite!!!!! I Loooove this channel! So much Great Info I can watch ALL DAY!!!!!
There are only TWO times that you can definitely say that one length of shell is better than another - One, when that's the only length your ammo supplier has in stock - and two, when that's all that you have in your ammo bag - or to paraphrase what a wise man once said, the ammo you have, is always better than the ammo you don't.
As a long time resident of Missouri, I can attest.... the intro is spot on (and as always done in typical Paul humor - always a good time).
I wish Paul read me bedtime stories as a kid. Everything is interesting when he describes it.
7:31-7:39 sounded like Paul was wrapping!! Hahahah that was great! 15:08 "Cut print." was another funny part. In seriousness thought, Paul does a great job presenting.
New underwear required for Paul's chronograph.
I love this channel and didn't realized I'd missed watching this comparison!
I’d like to keep my shoulder and teeth safe from the abuse of 3-1/2 inch magnums...
However 👉🏻 Velocity is much lower with heavier longer loads...
A good choke tube will significantly tighten the pattern at distances... IC / M / F / Steel BB F
I shot a 3-1/2 heavi once outta my Beretta once...... *ONCE!* The HELL with THAT!!!!! 😖🖕🖕
@@69CamaroSS I shot one or two of my buddy’s 3.5” slugs, just to say I did, and just to say “f that noise”. I don’t even really like 3” slugs, but the Magpul stock actually makes those a little better to shoot.
Thank you Paul I've had a long-standing argument with a friend about this... In your results are confirmed with my results when I did very similar testing...