"Everything Is Predetermined" Einstein and Ramana Maharshi - Gary Weber
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- čas přidán 20. 12. 2010
- Both Einstein and Ramana Maharshi made almost identical statements that "everything is predetermined". Nobel Laureates Eugene Wigner and Francis Crick (co-discoverer of DNA) made similar statements. The ground-breaking experimental work of Libet and many contemporary cognitive neuroscientists support these statements.
This is the first part of a presentation at the Science and Non-Duality Conference in San Rafael, CA in October 2009. The second part is covered in the video "Intelligence Choice is Impossible"; the third and last part is covered in "You Are Not In Control".
There is a new video "Predestination, free will, control and the illusion of time" which explains much on these concepts. There is a blogpost "The impossibility of 'free will'...scientifically and logically" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspo... which gives the latest science.
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Hi Ranjit. Recognizing that i had no free will and was not in control of "my life" was one of the great understandings. All pride, all guilt, all attachment to past actions, all shame, all failings, all successes fell away. Without the illusion of being in control, there was no striving, worry, or fear about doing something "wrong" or needing to do "more". There was no place else to be other than here, right now, being fully present to whatever was perfectly manifesting.
Thanks very much , Mr Weber . Fascinating indeed.
Sir, is there any way to contact you.
Thank you
i guess this is why we get deja vue.
I can't agree more with your say "All pride, all guilt, all attachment to past actions, all shame, all failings, all successes fell away. Without the illusion of being in control, there was no striving, worry, or fear about doing something "wrong" or needing to do "more"." That is exactly what I'm thinking now.
Hi hala sun. Yes, it was a big surprise to me as i had believed that i had created everything, good and bad, pleasure and pain, through my skill, efforts and some "luck", good and bad. However, when it all fell away, it was obvious there had never been, nor was there now, any one to have free will, or be in control, so it was logically obvious. i was not looking for that outcome, hadn't even been told it might happen, but there it was, unmistakable. stillness
Hi Gary, Thank you for all your work. It's indeed very insightful and helpful.
I just had an humble opinion. I think it's still "our creation". Before any making/creation/imprints (however we describe it), it was a clean slate. It's the memory of "our doing" which is unfolding in the given space and time (which we call 'birth'). Perception or extension of the same into a physical activity remains just remains itself and does not become an imprint as long as we don't make it 'ours'. The wrong identification (body & mind) of who we are created an imprint which requires another opportunity within the 'space&time' for itself to get erased. This duality leads to birth and death. Hence, if we identify who we really are, then there is nothing that we own and we merge in the blank slate (called 'nothingness')
Thank you for this opportunity where I can present my humble submission.
@@GaryWeber So what your basically saying that our life is predetermined before we was born?what about a serial killer,does he predetermine that too or he chose to do evil?
@@theresaallen2229 predetermined.
@@bethanienaylorYes, exactly~!
Exactly. For folk who believe that "this world" is other than a "dream", and who believe they can/must control the dream, the fact that it is out of their control is a source of continual frustration, disappointment and confusion. If they can grasp that it is all predetermined, the angst can disappear; if not, not.
Very important realisation. Man thinks everyday he is living life but actually he is moving towards his destiny everyday. If you think about it, we can’t chose when we are born, which parents we will have, what we will look like etc. there are so much that is not in our control. Past life karma has a lot to do with. And as we move along the journey we realise it’s like a film that you are watching & apart from taking action when required you really can’t do much
There is no good or evil in this world. How does karma exist?
New age nonsense
Hi Santhosh. If it is predetermined, whatever is going to happen will happen, just like Ramana Maharshi said. Whether you will do a constant practice of doing good is also predetermined, as is what effect it will have and on what. This is not something that i was taught, or believed, but it is what i have actually experienced after the "I" fell away. i actually believed i could determine the future; i was wrong. It really is all out of our hands, everything and all of it.
How did your I fall away?
I've always believed this. Because when I look back at my life considering my mental condition and physical surroundings at the time, how could I have chose anything other than what I chose? Where is the alternate me that made a difference choice? It's like a seed was planted and it could not have germinated into anything other than now.
I feel absolutely the same as you
Same!
This idea of predetermination is profound in its implications in giving us motivation to stay in the present moment. We cannot change the past or the future and even our perceptions and conscious thoughts of them are distorted. Our only hope is to bathe in the bliss of the present and to avoid our self made pain and to be aware of the beauty and bounty of now.
It isn't a question of what one thinks about predetermination. The science is clear on it. The consistent experience if one goes far enough in meditation is the same. "i" was absolutely certain that I had free will, was in control of my life, etc., until my thoughts stopped and there was no one there to have "free will" or "to be in control". It turns out to be a beautiful place, to recognize that you aren't in control, and never were. No regrets, no sin, no pride, no longing...
finally someone who understands
I found out that all is pre-determined, when I thought of the beginning of creation, realizing that every cause had an effect and every effect has a cause. cause and effect are the same thing.
I avoided this video for a long time because I believed in free will. I didn't want to deal with the implications but the implications are very liberating. I get a free pass for all the mistakes I've made for one. That's pretty cool.
Hi Frank Schoenburg. Yes, i also was strongly convinced that i was totally responsible for everything that had happened in "my life", until the page turned and the ego/I that was "doing", "choosing", "willing", etc. fell away.
To my great surprise, "my life" ran better w/o me in it. Obviously, there was no free will or control as there was no one to have it.
you might find the blogpost "There's no free will...accept it, attack it, hide it or ignore it?" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2016/09/theres-no-free-willaccept-it-attack-it.html useful.
Also the playlist "Free Will, Control, Predetermination" @ czcams.com/play/PLuH37Fyz9VEOnY_lUcblS8aI0hF7oNMj6.html gives some more videos on the subject.
JIC, links to all of my work, all free in some format, are under "Show More" above, and in any of my vids.
stillness
gary
Gary Weber Thank you! 🙏
+Frank Schoenburg
The implications can be very liberating, but the problem is "what" is liberated.
Some people would feel authorized to do any evil with the excuse that "I am not responsible, it is predetermined". As a matter of fact, there are many people who act in a total irresponsible way, harming the others, without feeling any responsibility in doing so, they actually don't care at all. I would be very careful before saying that "everything is predetermined" to people like this, because I don't think it would help them in any way.
Bansuri
That is if you think that people would choose doing evil over good, that people enjoy doing evil more than doing good. I think the choice for doing evil is only made out of fear and with fear involved there is no possibility to choose.
IAM HAPPY that you reply even for silly questions
great presentation. i would like to see more of your work. congratulations for putting this message with such ease.
Hi Shanthosh. As the old saying goes, "there are no silly questions"; your interest and enthusiasm for the Truth are what matters.
Thankyou for this wonderful presentation and comments.A person's ego comes in the way of accepting the beautiful truth of who we really are.Simple people who dont understand the nuances of complex science,have just looked at the complexity and beautifulness of creation, and rightly trusted that a supreme consciousness is performing this musical dance.Ramana Maharshi experienced this truth, with no degree in science.It is ironical of those scientists, who consider creation to be just an accident.
Excellent video, thanks for posting, much appreciated : )
Hi Honestmicky. Great that you found it so useful. If you look under "Show More" above, you'll see links to all of my work all free in some format where possible. stillness
Hi SoulStar. Yes, am a big fan of the Sedona Method. It is all though my blogposts and most folk i work w/ use it some. The blogpost "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" (URL under the "About" under the vid) is all about the Sedona Method and Byron Katie's very useful "The Work". These are very useful add-ons to self-inquiry to deconstruct persistent stories. Using "Cancel, cancel, cancel" is surprisingly powerful for strong stories that are often at root of suffering. stillness
An autobiography of a yogi- by paramhansa yogananda - chapter- Rules of the miracles...and an incident which his Guru told him to be happen in America with him regarding straberrys in chapter - My journey to kashmir -----explains this
Thanks
Hi Riju Sivanand. i haven't been doing that as want to keep these teachings free and available to all, as is all of my work, and once we start sharing the file that is impossible to control. Great that you have found the work so interesting. Best w/your efforts. stillness
Hi buh xe. Ramana did tell some folk that they could "choose" whether they identify w/"the mind/world" or w/"the Self"; others he told that everything, even that, is predetermined. Ramana gave different teachings to different folk depending on where they were, as all great teachers do. The quote in the video is the "further on the path" one. The questioner pushed him on it by moving a glass and saying "Is even THIS predetermined?", and Ramana said "Yes, even that". There are no real choices.
Hi tammy lind. i really have no sense of being ultimately responsible for any of this, really. It is all the Universe's/Her doing, all of it. She is all pieces and parts of it, the actors, the stage, the audience, the play, the director, etc. The amazing thing for "me" was that when i fully understood/realized this and just completely and deeply surrendered, that everything was seen to have always been perfect, and i never was in charge, nor needed to believe that i was. stillness.
Hi ranjit. Yes, everything is happening exactly as it is meant/supposed to happen. The "all-pervasive Self" may well be the Higgs field, or "Dark Energy", but we haven't proven that yet. we do know that there is an all pervasive field, but we don't know if it is "intelligent" or "self-aware". If it is the Self, it is likely much more intelligent that "we" are and as we can't stand "outside" of the all-pervasive field, as we are no different from it, there is logically no way to "see" it.
Vedas clearly state that the 'SELF' isn't aware of itself. It becomes aware of itself only through a Human Body. When spirit clicks with human body, it gives rise of the 'I am-ness'. That is the reason why we say inquire deep within and find your real SELF. Self realization happens only through human life.
There's a monk who had an out of body experience and went down stairs and saw his brother pour out his milk on the floor. Then minutes later after his out body he went downstairs again and his brother pour out the milk on the floor. The monk was amazed.
I'm here because I think that everything is predestined, but not a lot of people agree with this. I came from this conclusion 1 from having deja vu as a child and through near death experiencers. Some of them talk about having the knowledge on how the future is going to play out. Some of them are told about how many kids they will have in the future. How can this be possible? Also many talk about that in the ether there's no time. What seems to us as 70 years is just minutes in there. So how can this be possible without the predestined idea?
I have been watching numerous NDEs lately and was thinking the same thing as you.
Everything is predetermined or nothing would exist. The point is you cannot know the outcome till after its happened. If you are reading this post then it was predetermined that I would type it and hit ENTER. If you are not reading it then perhaps it was predetermined that I would die of a heart attack before I pressed ENTER.
"Everything is predetermined or nothing would exist". Why? How do you know?
Creation is continuously going on HERE AND NOW, nothing is predetermined.
"The world is an uncaused appearance in the Self"
[Ramana Maharshi]
No one has ever hit the enter key.
No one has ever died.
Nothing has ever happened to an individual.
There is no one.
There is a TON of evidence that the future is predetermined by the Master Spinner as F. W. H. Myers calls him in "The Road to Immortality".
Yes, OmegasisGuyver, that's it. It also works around the idea that it is pretty obvious to everyone that some things are out of our control. The important aspect is that we never know when something that we do will be enormously important to someone else far distant in time and space. This is an intimately connected Universe in which everyone participates; no one can step out to the side and change the flow of things. That's why "everything is predetermined", no matter how apparently small.
Hi Nando. Great that you are finding it useful and interesting. stillness.
Hi exbronco1980. Yes, that is correct, everything, including your watching this video when you did, was predetermined. Many folk admit that at least some "important" things, like tornadoes, hurricanes, wars, etc., are out of their control, but believe they control "the little things". However, we never know when a "little thing" is actually a "big thing", as much popular media has shown. If your great, great, grandmother didn't get on that bus, or whatever, you wouldn't be here. stillness.
Hi DrJeanine. Great that you found it useful. BTW, there is a lot of Advaita Vedanta stuff listed in the "About" including blog and my downloadable book.
Hi Abhi kaul. Great that you found it useful. re more work, there are two other videos from this same talk described in the "About" section, as well as other videos and many blogposts on this topic, and my book (downloadable free as is everything else) and website. stillness.
To understand or realize what NOW means, is also realizing that free will and Karma (that what is bound to happen) are models of the mind.
Ramana Maharshi always talked to the capacity of the seeker, which means, he used the same plane the seeker was on, so that might help him to investigate into the nature of the self.
Now is neither free will nor karma (predetermined), because it involves no time whatsoever. The moment you look back, the moment you are stuck on the level of mind, because it is of the mind that Time exists. By being still (remaining as you are), that which IS, is just Beingness without those attributes.
I did not ponder much about this later, until i came to this video. At first i said to myself it can't be that bad. Because the point of meditation anyways to detach from circumstances and events and watch everything unfold. But this morning something very unsettling came to my mind. There are so many people suffering if nothing is in my control, it means turning to meditation that can free me from a limited awareness too was never in my control.
This helps me make sense of the seemingly chaotic ego shell as I do my best to strip away the layers of attachment to what is not spirit. So many injuries of my body, money, emotions...It will all make sense soon enough. The quote is a felt relief from the conniving parasite that suggests I should, could or would have...if...Eckhart says it's all meant to empower us to step off the wheel of time and not endeavor to have another life or some utopia or heaven.
Hi Jade. Great that you found the video useful. There is lots of other stuff in the links under the "About", much/most of it having to do w/self-inquiry. Best w/your practices. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to let me know. stillness.
This was something i wrote down a while back. I was thinking what determines what i will and where do thoughts come from? I came to the conclusion then that we do not have free will because i did not know the source of it, therefore it can't be in my control. (conscious control)
This is how it came to me as well.
I can make myself have a thought, but I do not get to choose that thought.
And really I didn’t make myself have the thought to think a thought-it arose either spontaneously or based on whatever the environment was at the moment.
Hi Ranjit. A useful comment; if you look in the "About" information under the video you will see the other two videos in the series from this talk listed. i had anticipated that folk would be able to locate them as they are all described as coming from this same talk, but this will make it easier.
@Gary Weber what does the same i in deep meditation prove? also, how can you say thouggt stopped? dont you need thought to recognize anything?
Hi Nando. Wonderful that folk in Brazil have found it useful. Am OK w/sharing any of my material that you find useful. Great that you are taking the pains of doing a careful translation into pt-br. There is an automatic translator in Google that does Portuguese, but i suspect it is the European version which i have heard is somewhat different. Checked out Dharmalog; excellent stuff; i'll put the link in upcoming blogpost. Hopefully the work will be useful in your difficult times. stillness
So it makes sense to me then I think if we just sit there will the governments have us in masks and getting injections for ever
Hi justbede, great comment, and totally correct. The real problem w/changing the future, is how changing one element in one folk's life sometime in the future affects all of the countless previous things that will have to take place in millions of lives to make it now happen differently. It is impossible to even calculate, let alone know, and change, all of the possible things that would also have to change in countless other folks' lives over that time. It's just not possible.
whoa!!...
such profundity ;-)
where have you been Gary?
Hi eric. everywhere and no where...
As stated in response to your previous question, "Yippy!" and everything else about the experiment started before the participants were aware of them, billions of events earlier. you confuse "proximate cause" with "ultimate cause". Proximate causes, those closest to the event, cannot be separated out from the ultimate causes which are a massively interconnected, and interrelated web of linkages. The world is much more complex and interrelated than the determinists understand.
Is it possible to upload the full version of this talk? Thanks.
Hi Itinerant Yogi. The full talk is available, but in three different sequential videos. This one, and "You Are Not In Control - Gary Weber", and "Intelligent Choice Is Impossible - Gary Weber" are the other two. i was trying to keep it in typical youTube viewing times. Trust this is useful. stillness
Gary Weber
Thanks. I will check them out as well.
Everything is out of your control, including whether you get cancer or not. If it is "life style choices", "environment", "genetics", "other events going on around", and/or something else, these are all out of your control as well. "life style choices" are only apparent; the range of possibilities one has to choose from is not under their control. Their specific individual or combined contribution to cancer are also unknown and unknowable, so you have no ability to choose "correctly".
Hi love6uk. Great. Strongly encourage you to just "slump in your room forever..." and see what happens. Seriously, try it.
Sir i too agree that everything is predestined..i feel it because whenever i am in a point where am stuck between choosing this way or that, one of the two ways calls me more and how much i try to go to the other way i again change my mind and finally go that way which gives me relief..am i right sir about this that life is pre destined?? according to science?? people may think whatever they feel to but the truth is one..i want to know the truth and dont want to be in a misconception so that is why seeking for this answer that is life pre destined or not??
Hi MrCheersbagha. Yes, one of the things that you can be certain of, is that everything is predetermined. As the famous Einstein quote in the video says, in response to being asked how he could have come up with his fantastic, brilliant discoveries, he said "Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control".
i was certain that i was in control of "my life" until the page turned, and then it was obvious that i had never been "in control", nor did i have any choice in anything that had occurred, simply because the "I" was an illusion, not a reality, so there was no one to have a choice, even though it feels like we we do.
If you look @ the blogpost "Right-sizing your 'I', understanding confirmation bias" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2017/05/right-sizing-your-i-understanding.html you'll see just how limited the conscious "I" is compared to the enormous un/non/sub conscious processor there is 'off line which is where the decisions get made.
The neuroscience has confirmed that there is no single constant "I", but hundreds of them, that appear as useful for different relationships or functions.
The blogposts "you say 'we have no 'free will' and "we're not in control", is that experience, science of philosophy?" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/10/you-say-we-have-no-free-will-and-were.html and "The impossibility of 'free will'...scientifically and logically" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-impossibility-of-free.html discuss this in more detail.
The playlist "Free Will, Control, Predetermination" @ czcams.com/play/PLuH37Fyz9VEOnY_lUcblS8aI0hF7oNMj6.html also gives many videos on the issues.
Trust this is useful.
stillness
gary
So True Gary
Body does it’s functions by itself,we can’t stop them either,
heart beats 24/7 by itself.
We breathe 24/7 by itself
Digestion happens itself,
we don’t pour an ounce of trypsin convert it into Trypsinogen or
We don’t pour half ounce of bile, we don’t convert pepsin into pepsinogen.
Mind is collection of thoughts that’s our creation.
Emotions Anger, hatred, likes dislikes ,empathy, love, joy, compassion.
Energy within makes it All happen…
But Ego is self created I, mine becos of identity’s
Consciousness is experienced when there is no mind thoughts, no emotions, no ego
One is empty, nothingness then
Body mind emotions aligned integrated as one line
Like when thought word action is so aligned Bliss , joy is experienced.
Consciousness is also not done by us .,
Consciousness also happens by itself when you are ready….
So it’s the Energy which does it all.
Self Realisation also happens by itself….,,,
You just become the Awareness of all that happens….
The teachings of that great sage Sri Ramana Maharshi make it very clear. One must go through his teachings or at least Google his name,if one's interested to know more about one's own Self(beyond this body and mind). Besides that,the "Upanishads" explain it all in an overwhelming way. But again,to get the essence of Ramana's teaching and Upanishads,one must be ready and mature enough.
Hi Kushagra Munshi. Totally agree. my work is heavily based on Ramana's teachings and my three books are all dedicated to him. If you look under "Show More" above, or in any of my youTube videos, you'll see links to all of my work, all available free in some format. yours in Bhagavan. stillness, gary
Gary Weber Ah Sure! I would certainly like to have a look at those. Also, Thank you for this nice short presentation. The notion "I'm the doer" is the sole reason for this 'apparent' suffering.
World will eventually come to acknowledge this,sooner or later.
Regards :)
Thank you for explaining, its very deep, but i have question so can accept there is no free will,
if there is no free will, thats mean my past mistakes and laziness, is not my fault or is not by me ?
These questions confuses me, i wish you have an answer, thanks
Hi Davidius. Raised a conservative Christian, i did not find the "Don't do this(es)" to be useful as they caused anxiety, dishonesty, stress, but no behavioral improvement. The Bible did say "Be still and know that I am God", "I and my Father are One", and "I am That I Am" which can be interpreted as saying there is only One, i.e. no selves. If the focus is on attachments, and not what happens out of our control, IME,moral behaviors arise naturally as self-referential narrative falls away.
Hi Gary, interesting talk and a good one too. But coming to basics, I am intrigued to know the definition of 'SCIENCE'......can you clarify.....txs
chandrakanth k.s. What is your specific question around "the definition of 'Science'"? There can be endless philosophical analysis and speculation on this question, but i am a practical, empirical scientist and not a philosopher. stillness
Hi ranji kollu. Yes, of course, our death is predetermined, as well. How could something as important as that be left out? What we don't know of course, is how far ahead everything is predetermined, i.e. whether every facet is determined before/when we are born, or if the all-pervasive Self does it on a "shorter range" basis. Practically, it doesn't really matter, but to those who believe they can forecast and change the future, which they can't, it does. stillness
Hi bux he. The problem w/the "important" vs the "unimportant" things is that one never knows when something is "unimportant". If your great grandmother had not gone to some meeting, or had been visiting in a different town, you wouldn't be here today. Our lives turn on such small events it is impossible to know what "matters", and who and where even our minor actions will touch many others in subsequent years that it is just not possible to believe we can step out of that chain of events.
Hi Davidius. Since you like Ramana Maharshi's work, you might appreciate that the only "spiritual" training that he had when he had his big awakening experience @ the age of 16 was Psalms and Gospels and the stories about some of the "saints" from that part of India. Ramana was educated in a Christian school, sent there by his mother so he could learn English, which was a big deal in 19th century south India. They used the Psalms and Gospels to teach him English. Stillness.
Hi Umesh Kamath. Yes, it is wonderful that contemporary science is validating so many things that were basic beliefs in many traditions.
The existence of a universal field that permeates everything, the illusion of the "material world" as the concrete, fundamental reality, and the illusion of "free will" have all been scientifically demonstrated. we can now even understand how/why the "I" and the illusion of free will evolved into being in the most recent 1% of our species' evolution.
Does animals have ‘I’, or are they ‘enlightened’?
@@ordinaryguy815 What separates you and an animal is you can consciously do everything including breathing and consciously stop breathing till death while animals r still within the limits of compulsiveness. They can only do exactly within their instincts for survival .. Unfortunately man today has been doing the same.. eat, sleep, mate and die… You can consciously turn your mind inwards and enquire “Who am I?” using your razor sharp intellect to negate everything you are not till you hold on to that which is.. The source of “I” thought within you and reach enlightenment.. Animals unfortunately can’t.. They r not even evolved to your level.. Forget abt enlightenment!
@cybervigilante
excellent - totally agree. folk fear that living beyond constant thought and in continual "Presence" will be "nothingness" or "THE VOID". nothing could be farther from the truth. It is amazingly sweet, full and complete; there is nothing that could be added to it, or taken away that would improve it. Similarly with "predetermination"; accepting that you aren't in control lands you in complete freedom to be totally present to constant discovery of the amazing Dance.
Hi Ranjit. Whether or not you become lazy after learning of predeterminism or not is also predetermined. Just try to be lazy because you heard this and see what happens. Let me know how it turns out.
Hi mahesh3ce. The rishis cannot alter your future. How would you know if it had been altered? Did the same ones who told you they knew your future, tell you it had been changed?
Ramana Maharshi is the "Maha Rishi", or Great Rishi. he said that everything is predetermined; that has been my experience as well.
Hi Soulstar. "my" process is described in my book, "Happiness Beyond Thought" (free download @ URL in "About"). Basically > 20,000 hrs of Zen and yoga and self-inquiry a.k.a. Ramana. i really don't claim any "level" as there is no one there to be it. i was just trying to end my suffering by eliminating self-referential narrative, which worked. Unexpectedly, self-referential fears and desires fell away as well as gaining enhanced functioning. Amazing that it worked out that way, but it did.
Where is the full lecture for this?
Hi Pradeep P. It's not that simple. Every event in our lives is a manifestation of countless events that happened to countless folk of whom we have little/no knowledge. we have no ability to "step outside" this massively interconnected network and see if specific elements are "predetermined". All we can know is that "everything" is interconnected and determined by manifold unknowns. It is impossible to assemble the data to see if even the simplest single event is predetermined. stillness
Thank you.
Hi Jyo tej. you're welcome. Great that you have found the work useful. JIC, if you look under "Show More" in any of my videos, you'll see links to all of my work...books, blog, website, interviews, etc...all free in some format. stillness
Hi Mr. Weber,
Tks a lot yr kind & prompt revert. The indicated link gave me a copy of yr BOOK. Wow! Can you imagine? You made my day! Now, to the others vídeos. Next! :)
Gassho, Norma
Hi SoulStar. "i" am not able to make a meditation process "happen" any more, as we found out in the cognitive neuroscience research when i was first scanned @ Yale. The brain LOVES this great stillness, and just isn't interested in "egoic doing", including meditation. As Ramana said "There will come a time when it will be impossible to create (narrative) thoughts." That is my experience. There is no effort to remain in this sweet Stillness, it is the "new normal", and now "natural".
Gracias ♡♡♡
Hi Carla. Great that you found it useful. JIC, if you look under "Show More" above, you'll see links to all of my stuff, all free in some format. stillness
Hi gary sir. I feel a deep anxiety when i set free all my worries of family nd finances , its like taking a dive in a dark hole or abyss.
Aficionados9, the point about genetics, where and when we were born, who our parents, friends and family were, experiences we get, etc. is that all of that was out of our control and it heavily determines who we are now and what choices we are likely to make. i came to the "no free will" perspective b/c i suddenly had no thoughts, no self, and no one to make choices - i was really not in control and never had been, yet things worked better. i really believed i was in control until then.
Parents we are born to the person. we marry the amount of wealth we have, how intelligent we are is all based on the karmas we are born with
Great question...most of the speculation is metaphysical and can be discussed endlessly. There is no cognitive neuroscientific answer currently, and it may be a long ways off. What can be observed directly is that functioning happens w/o an "I", w/o any illusion of "free will", and there is no "I" residing permanently in the brain anywhere. It can also be observed directly that "I" don't activate or "manage" the brain's operations, neurotransmitters, synapses, frequency coupling, networks.
Good video. now world is proving many established things !!!
There is much on the subject. you might find the video "Neuroscience and Free Will BBC video (mirror)" interesting as it a Libet update w/the latest equipment. Wegner's book "The Illusion of Conscious Will" is well researched and exhaustively documented. Look up "Libet", "Predeterminism", "Free Will" on Wikipedia and you will get lots to read w/lots of references.
Then what's our purpose of us being in this earth...... If everything is already predetermined
Hi OmegasisGuyver. No, there's no such thing as free will, there is just the "feeling" of it which we developed for some reason. we have much, much cognitive neuroscience when demonstrates that there is no real "I" (which developed about 75,000 yrs ago), and that actions are in progress before we have any knowledge of them, let alone choice. It was a big surprise for me, but when "I" fell away, it was obvious that was the case.
Hi kwixotic. Agree. we don't really know, of course, how long ago this moment was predetermined by "The Universal Field/The One". As is discussed in another video, even if "The One' only decides picosecond by picosecond what happens "next", it is functionally, pragmatically, predetermined for "us", which is what is important. IME, i often have "presentiment" of what "needs" to be done, (but not why), but those are for short time scales. Later, it is seen why that action was "needed".
MR. GARY WEBER,exactly at what time this pre-determination occurs before the action takes place. if the bad action occurs without our consent due to GENETIC FACTORS, can one change it with constant practice of doing good
Can you tell me please how it was possible for you to accept that everything is predermined because our ego will never accept it and it is very difficult to actually surrender one self or get rid of I . How do you get that
If you go to my blog, which is described above under "additional information" and see "why don't more meditators reach the thought-free state", it will give you a lot of information on what "thought-free" means and what major spiritual lineages have said about the importance of it as their goal. Tks for the comments. Stillness.
What about when the consciousness perceives the action? The way we interpret it could change the next action, like a feedbackloop. So say my arm moves (predetermined) but my perception (freewill/consiousness) changes what the bodies next action is
Hi xamehc. If you look under the "About" you will see the other two videos listed that make up the complete talk. At the time this was posted, youTube had a 10 minute "limit" as i recall so i broke it down into three videos. stillness.
here the Cause n Effect or Karma and what is not affected by any such effects is explained clearly. thanx to Gary Weber. all his true sincere efforts takes time for our people to understand. reading the comments of questioners here i feel the 'world is not enough even to understand Cause n Effect (gross level to minutest level) . how then Consciousness and its Source?!! definitely going to take long time for those personality/Identity/doership/experience lovers !
Hi +Srinivasan Ananthan. Yes, the belief in "free will", "control" and "personal determination" is very strong. i encounter the strongest resistance to these concepts in my work and interestingly, some folk will accept one but not the other two, although they come from the same place....no real "I".
It is no longer really a logical, fact-based discussion, as the science is compelling and grows by the day as cognitive neuroscience research deepens. It is like folk hanging on to "knowing" that the earth is flat or the center of the Universe. It certainly feels that way, and appears that way, but facts are otherwise. At one conference i spoke at, the topic was "How do we tell them?" as these facts have great organizational, religious and societal implications. stillness
+Gary Weber Would it still be fair to say that thoughts (bundled as "I") can have causal power, and especially that consciousness as a whole has causal power? Otherwise I don't understand how it can have any reality - it seems to me anything that is real is real because it has effects on something else in the universe. Otherwise I see absolute dualism between causal things and noncasual things, i.e. latter being completely insulated.. like how could my consciousness be translated into a linguistic motor action typing this in space/time? Can nonduality help resolve Cartesian dualism at a philosophical level or only experientially?
CLains plz don't bring a new theory in the name of "noncausal things". Cause n Effect doesn't exist apart from the 'SAT' or Reality. Cognizor (vignaanamaiya kosha, subtle, dhrik, Seer )and Cognized (manomaiya kosha, pranamaiya kosha, annamaiya kosha, gross, dhrishyam, Seen). Sri Ramana says "Reality is simply the loss of Individual 'I'). Sri Goenkaji of Vipassana meditation centre says the desire for knowledge or cognition or comprehension, desire for experience creates the illusion of timely existence as individual 'I' or ego. This individual 'I' evolves or grows into manifold thoughts (here time space created) then turns into gross and again withdraws back to mere 'I'. This cycle repeats as long as desires exists! Once the 'I' stops desiring n seeking anything objective( subtle or gross ) the process of manifestation, projection of world, body, another etc too stops. Bcoz no inputs and so no outputs. Now the substratum reveals itself like a empty theatre screen ie without projection of light. We can call it Truth no more word to call it.
CLains
Cont'd...
zipped 'I' is deepsleep and unzipped 'I' is Jaga, Jeeva, Eeshwara(world -subtle/gross, Individual, God). From the 'I' to God is a concept. The practice of "mind Stillness" is the solution not intellectual contemplation. Once the mind becomes still completely the "zipped 'I'" is experienced. Then the creation of further desires drop or at least decelerates. Then individual 'I' looses its hope. Bcoz 'I' can exists only with an objective idea about itself and desires. Now with the experience the unreality of objectivity is revealed . soon the individuality is destroyed or say becomes completely powerless. Now the "Father (as jesus calls it) force or Grace" in Tamil language we call it ARUL அருள், in Sanskrit we call it KRIPA uses the instrument of body n mind of a such realised and established person. Whom we call Jnani. In truth he is no more. Grand infinite GRACE is using him as instrument. Our job is to "Be Still". once its complete the formless primordial lineage force will adopt the I.
*****
Hi +CLains. As far as resolving Cartesian dualism, i suggest you look @ the blogposts "The impossibility of 'free will'...scientifically and logically" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-impossibility-of-free.html, "Our 'choices' are random??? new research" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/07/our-choices-are-randomnew-research.html and "Are our lives controlled by our unconscious brain?" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2015/11/are-our-lives-controlled-by-our.html.
This is not a philosophical discussion...there is strong science behind how "you" believe you translate consciousness into linguistic motor action in your typing and what really happens. If you watch carefully, you will see that you don't think up what you say, or what you think, or what you type...it all arises w/o thought, and w/o your conscious involvement, until after the fact.
The video "you don't think up what you say" @ czcams.com/video/hxAaT7XzQrk/video.html and blogpost "you don't consciously think up what you say...new research" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/05/you-dont-consciously-think-up-what-you.html, can be useful in understanding this.
stillness
That's right. Thinking that any action or thought borns out of ones volition is absurd. For example: when you have a thought, the thought appears in your mind, but if that thought comes from one's volition, then you had to think first that you wanted that thought, and that's not the way it is. You cannot plan what will be your next thought, because if you had planned it, then you would have known it since forever, otherwise you wouldnt know what you are going to think at any time. So, thoughts just happen as a reaction to the environment, and there is no really an authorship. It's all mechanic. Free will is an ilusión because thoughts have no author. There is not a thinker.
Hi TheyLive. Exactly. stillness
Hi Basudeb Tripathy. Wonderful that you found it useful. As i mentioned to DrJeanine, there is a lot of stuff described in "About" including blog, website and free downloadable book. BTW, all of my stuff is free.
Hi Gary, do you believe through practicing Theravada teaching or other way, We can really escape sub-recantation system of our earth? Thanks a lot
I, unfortunately, agree. I was thinking about this for a while, then I decided to look it up, found this video, and much to my surprise, Einstein agrees with me. O.O
The only problem with this is that I can't therefor seem to find a point to the universe, or even my life that is apparently all laid out for me. I've thought of the universe as a simulation for a while now, but if it was a simulation, there would seem to have to be a point to it all. If you start with a rule set (the laws of physics) and hit the start button to the universe, you should also then be able to calculate the end and every moment in between. So what then, is the whole point? You don't do math problems which you already know the answer to.
Hi Joe. you might find the video "Predestination, control, free will, and the illusion of time" useful. There are many serious scientists who believe that the interpenetrating omnipresent field that we know exists and call "dark energy", or "Higgs field", may be "conscious" and "self aware".
If you see the blogposts "How 'consciousness' creates matter...the God particle?" and "Do your mystical experiences fit w/quantum physics? neuroscience?" you can get more on this. (blogpost url under "About")
If this universal field which has been scientifically verified (including a Nobel Prize) is conscious, which we can't prove yet, it may be evolving, just as many serious scientists believe that universes evolve. (See Blogpost - 'Is the Universe alive? Does it evolve, think, reproduce").
If so, perhaps we are the waves on the ocean of Consciousness that are the sensor pods through which the universe learns about Herself, and evolves.
stillness
Gary Weber
Brain activity to initiate the movement: 550 milliseconds before.
Intention (when they noted) to move occurred: 200 milliseconds before.
I'm not sure but it looks like something might be missing. Determinism dictates there also needs to be a cause for their intention to move their wrist. Where and when did that begin? Maybe 350 milliseconds before the intention was related in a relatable way? Maybe before that?
I'm a determinist, so I need that number. Thanks.
Hi ranjit. When Ramana Maharshi was asked that he replied that everything, even the smallest action like moving a glass, was predetermined. IME, that is correct. If everything isn't just random, which it isn't, then "something" must be running the show. we can give "it" all sorts of names. The most important thing is that we aren't doing it. "It" may be the Higgs field, or the "self-conscious" universe as some scientists claim. Blogposts @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com. stillness.
There’s a guy on youtube who says that through the use of 5-MeO-DMT, he has reached deeper levels of awakening than probably even Ramana Maharshi (only when tripping, not sober). He says he can realize he is God, to the extent that he is aware of how he is creating every pixel of reality.
Hi schapadap. Absolutely correct but the two are linked, When Ramana Maharshi awakened at the age of 16, the only spiritual teachings he knew were Psalms and Gospels and some stories about Hindu saints. Ramana was sent to a Christian school to learn English, which was the path to a good job, and they used the Bible to teach English. The quotes cited above to Davidius were ones which Ramana frequently used in his teaching. yes, i know one is from Exodus; he learned much later. stillness.
Thanks a ton Gary for your presentation and thought. Whereas science has proved that there is some gap between thought and action with the brain reacting 550 ms before and your question as to "what role do we play in the action" - my understanding is - yes everything is predetermined and the signal comes from somewhere we do not know BUT the signal is actually an output of the signal our "soul" had send earlier. My understanding is that we are part of the overall energy (call it God, or IT or Parashakti or whatever) and the overall energy is part of us. When it all began (call it big bang or evolution or whatever) the overall energy broke into billions of energy packets and may be each packet is the "soul" we talk about. These "souls" has manifested itself as part of the overall energy in various physical entities changing with "rebirth". How else can be explain the steady population change (humans as well as all species including plants) of both living and non living beings. Though the human population has steadily grown - there are other beings on the decline maintaining the overall energy equation. In which case right from the beginning each of these energy packets or "souls" are sending signals to the overall energy source and this signal the brain receives is in reply to those signals send earlier. These signals may be in this birth or earlier and hence the karma concept can be explained. My understanding of non duality with whatever little I have read is that we are all these energy packets or "souls" which happen to be in this entity in this life called "my body". But the true "I" is this energy packet or "soul" which changes medium and manifests itself in different forms with the cycle of birth and may be "realization" is when the "soul" do not need a physical entity to manifest itself and remains part of the overall energy or Parashakti - as I would prefer to call.
Please correct me or enlighten my thoughts.
Hi Kishore. i see it a little differently. we know from our science that there is an all-pervasive Universal energy field that is through all of us and in which we and everything else are just different patterns. That energy field may have come into being with the Big Bang or it may have been there before the Big Bang. That Universal Energy field has to continue to evolve and the entities within that field are the ways in which is evolving, so we are the Field manifesting in different ways so that the Field can learn about itself in every possible configuration. When this physical form "dies" the physical manifestation/body deteriorates and disappears but the Universal Field continues and manifests another configuration for its further evolution. "Realization" may be when there is no need to continue to manifest in a separate body. Realizing that Everything is One, One just dissolves into/merges with the Universal Field of Bliss and Presence. stillness
Hi Jasmine G. your comment "Are thoughts or ignorance determined too?" was unintentionally deleted, and it's not clear how to get it back. A great question. Yes, even thoughts or ignorance are determined as well. Whether or not you will find any of this interesting, useful, or or no value is also out of your control. you will either have had the right genetics, environment, education, reading, practice, or not, to have those understandings. It's all out of our control. stillness.
hi mr. weber
first of all thx a lot for this... and sry for my bad english... what i dont get is if everything is predetermined (and just from my feeling i doubt that ramana means it in the same why as u do) than why do i have a conscious decision about living life in a unconscious or awere way? for what i have experienced their is a chose of going with the mind or just observing that- or going hwith habbits or being awere of the and just watch them... now beside from that i also.....
I read in a book of Ramana Maharshi Q&A transcriptions that he said:
"There is free will until you consider yourself as an individual, when you go beyond that, the question makes no sense anymore". The question makes no sense anymore, hence BOTH free-will and predetermination are mental delusions.
But you have to practice self-enquiry until...
You can't say that in advance. Ramana can say it, we can't.
I personally think that if all that will happen is already predetermined, then it is completely insignificant, even if It could be a reassuring worldview, so one could say "Everything is predetermined, I can do nothing, I am not responsible of my acts, so let's go to sleep". It is good for scared people, who can't stand uncertainty and responsibility.
You can go beyond only taking responsibility, not denying it. At least, I see it this way.
Thanks Gary. I didn't know that, and I am interested in Ramana Maharshi. Stillness, eh ? I need to try that, buddy :-)
i actually think i get it. when we see stuff happen there is nothing that can change whatever is happening, and when whatever happening changes that that is part of the unchangeable flow of the cosmos, so we kind of just observe things am i along the lines here?
If they do change the future, it is also pre determined that they would do it.
i think i understand, but i still have one more question, if thats the case then why do we perceive things? i mean if we cant really change our destiny then why are we even aware of it? thank you for being so thoughtful Gary.
Some say that we're just God's consciousness watching it all happen and unfold from different perspectives. That might be why.
Is it static determinism or dynamic determinism? I see dynamic determinism: the next fraction of a second is just a consequence of the previous one. In static determinism, I can think about an "end" or "end force" where every current fraction of a second keeps resolving to a predetermined "end"; keeps changing current reality like a magnet.
Hi Marco. my "world view" matches Einstein's, i.e. as described @ about 2:00 in this video, that "...we dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible piper". i don't believe that "everything" was predetermined @ the Big Bang. "my life" is filled w/highly fortuitous, very improbable serendipities and "precognitions" that appear to be perfectly attuned to that very instant, but which weren't obvious shortly before and are far beyond my meager abilities to arrange.
i believe that, just as evolution is occurring for everything in the Universe, so too, does the Universe evolve and we are Its/Her evolutionary sensing pods and She is changing the "experiments" on a femto second basis as adaptations manifest. we have the Higgs field which is "everywhere" and penetrates everything...perhaps, and this is unproven, the Higgs field or something through which it also manifests, is piping that tune, adaptively, and continuously evolving. More and more credible scientists are coming around to aspects of this model.
Trust this is useful. stillness
A lot of coincidences have happened to me throughout my life, so much so that I keep a list in my email drafts that I update when one happens. This makes me question if things are coincidences or are they predetermined? Are we just following a script written to us by… who or what? The very nature of the universe, a deity, or something else?
Did you get an answer to that yet?
@@Existentialcrisisaf no :( but coincidences keep happening 😆
the real step is for scientists to experience their formulations-otherwise there is only knowledge without personal experience.
The whole universe is a living entity, and whatever lives, dies. So the the whole creation is just consciousness of GOD.
Rahul Gautam we are part of the universe. if we are conscious the uni vrse is consious. and the universe is evolving.
A prominent Advaita teacher/guide stated that it's not the case events happening now were predetermined many years ago by somebody. Rather, it's that in any given moment the occurrence of something is because it must be that way, that "The One" is predetermining that it can only be the way it's turned out and no other way. Agree?
Wow, that was quick. Thanks for the reply. I've had contact with evangelical and charismatic churches myself and personally it didn't help me, truth be told. I guess we've all gotta think, interpret, and work things out. I quite like Ramana Maharshi actually, but I was just interested if his teachings could fit in with Christs. I need to think more about this. I know there's a more esoteric approach with Eastern Orthodox mystics. Best wishes :-)
What I mean is, I have to believe I can have some sort of control, because without that there would be no motivation to do things and no hope. Indeed, decisions rarely result in action. Action is determined by who you are, by all your experiences in the past, and not by some moments decision. I think, the more you're "aware" of every moment in your life, the more you have control.
Yes but the motivation naturally happens. Like for e.g., I needed to become a mother in life in order for me to get serious about life and my career. I just couldn’t be like my other peers who were motivated and serious about life from say age 14. I wasn’t ready for it. No matter how many lectures I received. Responsibility kicked in only at the right time. Furthermore when I was on the dating scene trying to find the right sort of person to settle down with I looked for a specific type of person. I didn’t get that. I got totally the opposite and my married life has not been a good one. It’s been a horrible show I’ve watch unfold.
@@krishnagondhea7428I have to say I agree with each and every word you just said
Hi Mr gary, i think ramana maharshi and einstien were having same thoughts because of same year they had born. 1879.