Wait... where were the personal attacks and insults? It's not a modern political debate without Dagoth insulting Miraak's intelligence or Miraak commenting on Dagoth's hygiene.
The tribunal temple has forced to me to censor this debate post broadcast. They took my ordinator armor and threatened to come back with severe force if I do not obey.
You forgot the political candidates constantly trying to talk over each other like kids at the playground. But then again these characters have way more class than almost any modern day politician
Weird place to ask this but how is a barbarian supposed to defeat these flying imps? They have ghost rules and the starting dungeon doesnt have silver weapons just lying around and magic isnt an option. I kept running and closing doors in their faces to shake them off
@@gewuerzwanze5627 You can actually get better starter weapons through the backstory generator, but if you're committed to your current run just speed running the dungeon to the exit and coming back later is always viable
@@intergalacticimperialist9670 thanks. It sucks having to build a specific backstory just to be able to take down enemies in the first ever dungeon. Or take magic. God i hate todd
@@gewuerzwanze5627 You only really need steel or better to kill them, I'm pretty new to Daggerfall but I've done the opening dungeon 4 times now and never not spawned with or quickly found an item that can kill them. The game has a big learning curve that I have not even come close to surmounting, but the imps really aren't all that bad, you can even take a language that pacifies them in character creation
You forgot the most important thing. People can finally use chairs and beds in Skyrim. Imagine standing around all day, never sitting down, never going to bed.
Oblivion did that too and is actually better than skyrim imo if comparing vanilla/lightly modded experience. Oblivion is still worth playing and people sleep on it.
You think thats bad? In Arena you purchase a room with a “bed” which is just a table with a colored top. You stand on it and then camp. It’s basically just roleplaying that you’re sleeping. No bonuses apart from not getting jumped in your sleep.
The Dragonborn and the Nerevarine should have been there to debate, but the Dragonborn was launched into the stratosphere by a giant on the way and the Neravarine got all his strength sapped by a bonewalker and can't move.
Morrowind's guilds were far superior. First off, there were more of them, including more niche groups like vampire clans and religions. All of them had fully developed quest lines. There were hard requirements where joining one group would exclude you from others for that playthrough and soft ones where making it to the top of one guild required killing members of other guilds. They actually had rewards for ranking up as well as hard skill checks.
Okay to be fair as someone who completed the mages guild questline, like 90% of the quests in it are fetch quests (granted you're sometimes fetching unique items). Meanwhile the skyrim mages guild questline has a story (even if it's pretty rushed).
They also had stat requirements. So you couldnt be some retarded barbarian and join the mages guild and just unga bunga smash everything to become grand master
@@Nonamearisto Only once physically, but still much more than Alduin. Also had multiple cultists and books elaborating on his goals. He was basically written like Sauron. Background villain with surprising depth and complexity.
Same with me. I like em both but Skyrim is so much more playable to me. I can be Mr. Roleplay OR Mr. Hack and Slash. Skyrim gives me the choice. Still that Morrowind is pretty fire. Plus I play with so many mods it's like Skyrim in a parallel universe.
Woah that's so interesting, I started with Oblivion/Morrowind, so it must've been a surprise to go back to previous games and see them being so much more rpg influenced.
"The Dragonborn's story is thrilling with plenty of twists and turns along the way." Ahh yes, the thrill and the twists and turns of a 100 mile long stretch of country highway.
The only complaint is there were no jabs at Morrowind, for it had some serious flaws as well. The combat was simple and not engaging. Some would say it was a chore. Not to mention controls can be a bit janky. World does not seem to change with the player compared to Oblivion and Skyrim and could lead to some interesting plot holes if done in a different order. RPG elements were there, but some were not properly exploited. You could still, potentially, do everything and other components can be ignored for the sake of the story. Like why is your argonian character not constantly harassed or arrested on trump-up charges to be turned into a slave? Especially since the Trinity would want to get rid of your character in the end. Most dialogues were copied and pasted to make it seem there was more than offered. Worst yet, most of this dialogue was not voiced. There are flaws in every video game. Skyrim has more than Morrowind but a politician's job is to deflect at a point at other's flaws to drag everyone to their level.
Let's not forget that they also have that cool flying prison over Vivec that everyone will notice upon entering the city and it's only used for ONE quest. Imagine putting an epic-looking floating structure in your open-world RPG and not finding tons of cool shit to do with it. Also I agree with all the flaws you brought up. Morrowind fans tend to overlook the shitty combat because the RPG elements are good, but literally no other action game plays Morrowind (and not in a good way) and its combat is as stiff as hell as a result. As for the Argonian thing though, I can see why your player doesn't get arrested or enslaved for being an Argonian: It'd be tough for new players starting out. Imagine picking this cool looking lizard guy as a new player, going into the first town, and then getting arrested on the spot after just leaving the boat.
@@JamesThompson-up8tn I Agree with the Argonian from a gameplay perspective. However, my point from an RPG perspective is a bit weird that for a game that emphasizes RPG, it does not lock you out from certain areas or factions as far as I am aware. I mean an example done right is Divinity Orginal Sin 2. And if they could not have done it, maybe not have left it as a choice for the player. I am just pointing out that they were more willing to break for gameplay mechanics beyond Skyrim. Skyrim had racism, but it did not prevent the player from entering due to being the Dragon Born.
@@raw6668 what actually changes in Skyrim? A town goes from imperial to storm cloak? The cities don’t change one bit the entire game, the only change is how they interact with you?? To what level are you speaking because morris wind absolutely changes much more than whiterun. Even after you defeat alduin his crony dragons still walk around lmfaoo
Skyrim also brought tons of people into the series including me. Along with fallout 4 for fallout respectively. Now that I’ve beat both of them and have played the older games I can say I like the stories and options a lot more in the older games tes5 is just a little to streamlined
It’s streamlined, yes. But the new games are just better. While the stories of Morrowind and New Vegas, for example, may be great. Morrowind is dated, and New Vegas is just meh on most other aspects.
I had an idea. A little stupid, but I like it. What if Dagoth Ur was friends with Sheogorath? They're both mad gods. I can picture them getting into shenanigans, trolling the shit out of azura
Dagoth Ur is a false god, and Sheogorath is the daedric prince of madness... neither one of them are counted as gods. Daedric princes aren't gods, more like demons.
@@gwouru There are a couple of exceptions though. Trinimic didn't ask to become Malacath in one of worst ways possible and Azura does help mortals for the greater good.(Just don't make her angry like one Dwarf and Dark Elves found out the hard way.) And there's nothing stopping any of them from choosing to not be total manipulate scumbags.
@@chadharger9323 Not all demons are princes of change and destruction either, but they are all demons. You know the difference between the Aedra and the daedra? The daedra said nah, I'm good, and didn't contribute a damn thing to the making of the world, so, have no real connection to it, and are thus, not gods of Tamriel. That's it. So, they're all demons, just because some are less evil, doesn't change that fact.
If you include the expansions then the Nerevarine killed at least 2 potentially 3 gods and probably trapped at least one of their souls. Also could actually fly.
They were never true gods. The tribunal were nothing but lying imposters who stole some divine power and told everyone they had achieved godhood through their own virtue, whereas in reality, they just used Kagranac's tools on the Heart of Lorkhan.
@@Nonamearisto This, it's hilarious seeing how many fans fell for their propaganda, like thinking Vivec actually achieved CHIM. Like no lol He was just a powerful mage that was leaching off the Heart of Lorkhan
@@nagger8216 Almalexia and Vivec were basically just extra powerful mages with a weapon and very little clothes on. Sotha Sil at least had his status as a cyborg going for him. They were elves with stolen powers, not gods.
@@Nonamearisto Someone finally said it. They're FALSE gods, Lowercase g. The whole point of them is to show how far Dunmer society had fallen since the time of Nerevar and the Chimer.
@@the.orthodox.photographer2272 It's not quite that straightforward. At first, the Tribunal were possibly the best things that ever happened to the Chimer/Dunmer. They performed miracles on a regular basis. They obviated the need to worship Daedric princes, as the Daedra- even Azura- don't really care about mortals. They even defeated Mehrunes Dagon at least once and saved Morrowind on at least one occasion. The decline under the Tribunal began because Dagoth Ur cut them off from the heart. Because he did that, they were too weak to stop the Cyrodilic Empire under the Septims from invading. It was also at that time, because his power was limited, Sotha Sil withdrew completely into his Clockwork City and Almalexia started getting paranoid and egotistical, her ego being driven by fear of losing her power. Furthermore, Vivec had to devote most of his remaining power to both supporting the Ghostfence (itself supported by souls sacrificed to it) and to keep up Baar Dau. If there was a decline under the Tribunal, Dagoth Ur is largely to blame for it.
On the one hand, I like that you can join the Companions as a Mage. If there was an Elven Harbinger, why not a Caster? But I also don't like that the only obstacle to that is Vilkas making you hit him with physical attacks and then no-one cares.
There is not baked in roleplaying for Skyrim though. It takes mods to correct that. Skyrim is pretty much Elder Scrolls New Vegas. Half finished, but can be perfected with mods.
@@TheMetalAllfather Except in New Vegas it was structurally integrated with the game mechanics. You literally couldn't team up with certain characters unless you had the lowest Intelligence for example. In skyrim if you play as a rogue it will have no actual impact on the story at all, and once you max it out your 'rogue' will become whatever you feel like doing after a while.
@@doxscund8821 This exactly, but my main point was that Skyrim, much like New Vegas, is the perfect example of Bethesda saying "Fuck it, let the modders finish the game for us."
@@TheMetalAllfather Bethesda didn't make New Vegas, Obsidian did. Bethesda/Zenimax however did force an incredibly strict development timeline on them though of 18 months.
the crossover we've always wanted, but can never have. would've been hilarious to actually witness this happen. unless the devs wanna go the warriors route and create a crossover mob hack'n-slash where all of ESO clashes in an epic battle across Tamriel and Nirn.
Skyrim's plot has depth if you look for it. Hell, the Stormcloaks and the civil war was practically a social experiment demonstrating how easy it is for players to get swept up in nationalistic fervor and end up supporting actual Nazis. You start off thinking Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are heros, with your daring escape, asshole imerials trying to execute you and Ralof seeming like a genuinely decent guy. Then you get to WIndhelm - you see the elf-ghettos, mini pogroms and Ulfric straight out starts paraphrasing Mein Kampf... You have a moment of empathy with the average German/Italian/Spanish citizen who ended up supporting fascism. I thought it was brilliantly written.
Actually it's kinda debatable whether or not the main character in Morrowind was really the reincarnation of Nerevar or if he's just some guy that managed to fulfill all the requirements of the prophecy. Which adds more points towards Morrowind if anything, since in Skyrim you're indisputably the Dragonborn with no nuance or room for debate whatsoever. And don't worry I'll do it for you. 🤓
That is an interesting point, but you could say the same about every prophecy, "Someone came around who made a good enough effort to smooth out the kinks that didn't make it into the re-print and he did fix the problem". But yeah, in Skyrim there is not even a question about it.
@@gendor5199 I suppose, but the difference is that the Nerevarine prophecy calls specifically for the reincarnation of Nerevar to fulfill it, and it's possible the main character isn't a reincarnation at all and just some schmuck who got lucky
@@nagger8216 Absolutely, I just wanted to add the thought that prophecies are basically "We really, really hope this is going to happen" mixed with hindsight, "See? we told you all along!" Poor Dagoth Ur, got smacked by some schmuck who got thrown out of prison.
@@nagger8216 the prophecy also defines the reincarnation of Nerevar as the person who succeeds in fulfilling the prophecy. Whoever did it *is* the Nerevarine, whether they think so or not, because doing is being, in the Elder Scrolls.
Considering one of the criteria for becoming the Nerevarine is wearing Moon-and-Star - which mind you is blessed by Azura herself - without instantly dying, that really doesn't leave much room for error.
If we could have the story telling and roleplay quality of Morrowind with the gameplay of Skyrim think of how amazing the game could be. We can only hope and pray ES6 lives up to the hype. Can't wait to mod wolfgirls into yet another game.
Glad to see old Voryn speaking from the correct Great House. Mirak, on the other hand, had to set up his podium in the cafeteria at the house of that philandering bum, that imperial sellout. Sad.
I mean Dagoth Ur has some stuff in Skyrim, especially from the creation club content that's technically DLC for the game to add more to a game that has lots to do like Morrowind (never played Morrowind but have seen some gameplay and also the plot behind it)
I expect a meme and in the end I get a great debate, great video! Being a skybaby Miraak got me talking but the conservative side of the Dargoth Ur did not go unnoticed, in the end each one will have their own opinions and may not be able to convince each other.
I keep waiting for Miraak to mention the Skyrim Civil War when Dagoth Ur mentioned politics. The war helps determine the fate of the Empire when it comes to fighting a future war with the Third Aldmeri Dominion (which will be if humans and other races be demoted to second-class citizens by Elves in the worst-case scenario if the Empire loses, I'd say enslaved but the Aldmeri Dominion abolished slavery)
More like humans will gradually be exterminated if the more zealous of the Dominion had their way. As much as I like Morrowind and the hierarchy of the Dunmer, Skyrim has actually more sophisticated politics.
Outcome of the civil war makes no difference. An independant Skyrim would be more than happy to temporarily ally themselves with the empire if it means killing elves.
@@RoastedToastedPoops fellow scout. In all seriousness, even if it makes little difference (tbh. I doubt it will since bethesda gotta make a sequel), theres still a lot at stake since I think it determines whether or not the Empire will last a few more years Skyrim's politics should not be as disregarded as in the video
@@serronserron1320 absolutely not, the politics of Skyrim are literally only, imperial or storm cloak lmfaooo, there are four houses with differing politics, along with the ash landers who disagree with all of the houses and make up a large part of the political landscape of the game. If you haven’t played or payed attention that’s ok but that’s just not true lmfaoo
man the sad thing is that Skyrim had TONS of cut cotent, every faction and storyline was supost to be way bigger and more complex, i hope they go all out in TES6 or idk in a future Skyrim version (dw guys, there will be some) they add that cut content
I like to think that the only member of the audience is Martin Septim. Him alone just sitting there and saying nothing because his game is the most overshadowed.
Really interesting how Miraak talks about exciting and epic adventure in a monotone voice, truly encapsulates the soullessness of Skyrim. Also he himself is a part of DLC made exclusively for morrowind nostalgia pandering. Safe to say this debate was lost even before starting.
Now I've never played Morrowind myself, but I have played Skyrim a whole lot. I feel Skyrim is the "every man's" rpg. I would come home from school and pop it in and just travel. I did a few quests to get the weapons and armor I wanted, but I just explored. That was fun to me I didn't need the grand adventure, most of the time I'd stumble onto it like a drunkard. Dawnbreaker was and still is my weapon of choice in my first playthrough. It was especially handy for the dawnguard when I fought hoards of undead. Dragons just flying overhead was really cool especially if it wasn't to fight. It was like seeing an airplane as a little kid. Yeah it's age might be showing now, but Skyrim has earned it's place as a classic.
@@marinribaric9749 technically most games are RPGs since a role-playing game is a game in which you take the role of a character. So in a way yes I would call Borderlands an fps rpg, similar to Skyrim being a first-person rpg. However what I meant by "sandbox" is that I can play the game as I want. I'm not hindered by game progression (save for the first dragon slaying). I could join most/ all guilds at level 1. I could defeat harkon and miraak as well as the civil war before alduin. The main quest isn't the main focus of the game. The adventure is. A game like borderlands is arguably similar considering the openness and side quests available that the player can do before advancing the story.
I got marrowind when it came out. Too young to truly understand what was going on and now too old and experienced in games to find it fun. But the time i did have with it was great. Oblivion was my true foray into the elder scrolls. Great game if.....special and i spent the most time on it, skyrim lacked in fantasy but had some epic tales, but over all was more grounded in quests and repetitive in some area's. Here's hoping es6 will introduce more role-playing elements
I think I prefer Skyrim with the ability to swing a weapon and actually have it hit something and not pass harmlessly through an enemy because invisible dice decided something without telling me.
True extension of Thu'um available in Skyrim manifests as mods, Thu'um is capable of shaping world, just like mods, thanks to Thu'um you can create dangers, stories, landscapes and people, that collectively deliver unique experiences unavailable to Morrowind, all it takes to master Thu'um branch called modding is time, effort and dedication, with proper understanding of this tool Skyrim reality faces limitless possibilities
Skyrim and Morrowind seem like two halves of a truly great game. The gameplay of Slyrim is more real, visceral, enjoyable. It’s not dice rolls, it’s all on the player. And while the environment of Morrowind has its charm, Skyrim’s ice age splendor dominated by the great Barrows is as great. Especially when you add the diversity of environments, from tundra, to glacier, to forest, to bog, to mountains, and even the alien Black Reach. But Skyrim could do with Morrowind role playing and lore depth in its turn. Hope Bethesda learns from both games.
Skyrim is a superior game on the basis of combat, size, and player choice alone (not having to keep swinging at the same scrib 50 times to get a hit is nice too), but Morrowind has a superior setting, one utterly unique among roleplaying games. The five (or six) houses, the tribunal, the morag tong, the deep lore involving the Chimer, the daedric princes who led the Chimer to what was then called Resdayn, their interactions with the Dwemer, and the transformation of the Chimer into the Dunmer are all unique. Skyrim has some interesting lore here and there; the coming of the Atmorans to Skyrim, the sad fate of the Falmer, and yes, the civil war (which could have been better developed), but it's not really all that special, just a sort of fantasy Scandinavia.
@@Nonamearisto Skyrim isn't simply fantasy Scandinavia. The Ice Age animals and glacie give it a sense like it's a primeval place, frozen in the past. And the Barrows, like Bleak Falls Barrow, or Forelhost, or even Shriekwind Bastion brooding over the mountains, glowering down at the descendants of their builders kinda shows how mighty Skyrim was, and the Draugr lurking within reveal what the cost of that might was.
the Funny thing is two legends talking to each other from two fucking awesome games *realize it's the same game just in different time lines* holly shit welp still just Skyrim and the other ones off Skyrim based thing is awesome in it's own right as a game
The end argument got me good. Skyrim's Popularity is due to them piecemealing out to the population over years across multiple Consoles. Lets not poke fun at Miraak for not even making it into the base game, Of course Skyrim has taken the core ideas of morrowind and build something that even the "Lazy" casual can get behind, the game dos not just dump you into the world and say good luck, it grabs your hand and lightly pulls u in a direction for the whole experience, You are the dragonborn and THIS is the path you should walk on. it was a Rollcoster Not a safari
Morrowind is also great at choosing various factions to determine the fate of Vvardenfell. Also, Skyrim’s choices boil down to: decent person, or absolute asshole
skyrim was the definition of large as an ocean and shallow as a pond the only thing that skyrim had going for it other than any of the other elder scrolls is the magic casting system, like the look and feel of it and that's it, i prefer morrowinds melee combat over skyrims
Dagoth Ur contradicting himself saying the Dragonborns journey was weaker because of the prophecy but counting the Nerevarine prophecy as a strength of Morrowind. Morrowind is more fun to me on a conceptual level, the sheer freedom Enchanting and Spellcraft give is rife for delicious exploitation, and the power of Alchemy is extremely well documented. I also enjoy the political interplay between Factions, and the factions themselves in Morrowind. While they don't have major stories like in skyrim, stuff like the Fighters Guild being in the Comonna Tong's pocket and getting tasked to slaughter the thrives guild for messing up their racket, or House Telvanni's attempts to control the Mage's guild makes the world feel so much more alive. While the work itself is more mundane, it makes earning your place at the top feel a lot more... well... earned, compared to completing the faction quest lines in Skyrim where you can become Harbinger of the Companions while having barely swung a weapon, or the Archmage of Winterhold when you only know your starting flames spell and the ward Tolfdir teaches you. In conclusion I think Morrowind is a much better game. Just don't ask me to actually play it.
Seeing some of the comments: You should only judge the games based on things unrelated to the technology that was available. Graphics and physics from 2002 as compared to 2011 are as far apart as Skyrim with mods in 2013 and the "new" Skyrim on the new Unreal Engine. Same goes for certain mechanics like horseriding or sitting down. The Main storylines of both games were superb. Morrowind took a lot longer because of a number of reasons, like you needed to walk everywhere and most of the places were almost unreachable. The lack of scaling also made sure that you couldn't simply reach the last boss before you were strong enough to move past the numerous Deadroth lurking along the Red Gate. All the powers you gained were really needed. Skyrim can technically be cleared without learning any of the Word Walls beyond the plot related ones. And the ability to fast-travel allowed a quick playthrough. Which Morrwind simply wasn't. The Side plots were more extensive, more intertwined. You could only become Guilmaster of the Thieves and the Fighters if you did the right quests. If not, you were excluded from one or the other. The Mages forced you to learn and improve and undertake complicated quests. Political factions pulled you into deep plots with assasinations and framejobs. Skills maybe didn't offer any special abilities like in Skyrim, which is a huge plus for Skyrim (but might be due to technological limitations), but in general really paid off to master in Morrowind. You could actually see yourself improving in Morrowind with magic or melee combat. I remember one Master Trainer for one of the most difficult skills to level was a hostile NPC, but if you had your Calm Humanoid spell of a high enough rank, and your Illusion skill was high enough, you could make him friendly for long enough to get some blessed training. I could go on about ow much I love Morrowind over Skyrim, even though I also love Skyrim a great deal, but I think the above three-ish points are enough reason to show why one is better han the other for the right reasons instead of saying the graphics are better, and the genre is more developped and has more interest now than it had 20 years ago.
here i'll settle this right fast Skyrim: I have 277 mods on that game to make it even playable. At least 130 of them are just adding stuff back into the game that was removed for ???? reasons. marrowind: i legit got 7 mods on this and they just fix the mana, makes game play more smooth and add some armor and clothing and stuff. Skyrim: I can go through that whole game naked with an iron sword and win at everything, never needing to learn magic beyond heal and flame. Marrowind: this random npc with a farm tool caved in my skull even though I have high level gear on but not so much the skull to use it right. Have to dive into every little detail and bask in the madness of the world or be consumed by it. Skyrim: end game is the same as start of game, I swing an axe and it kills stuff but now rather than having to swing it like 5 times sometimes I enchanted it to have 50997 damage out of boredom and just kill things with 1 swing. Marrowind: After hours of game play and thinking and keeping to the plan you can know make a potion that allows you to jump off the planet and crash the game, Spell craft silly and insane things and enjoy new crazy levels of death by yeet. And lastly the most clear thing out of all of them Marrowind: crazy spells and skills that allow you to mix and match and do many crazy things and have new and fun builds with rewards and punishments for any path you choose to take ensuring you replay many times Skyrim: heavy armor sneak archer death mage. it is what you will become no matter what you do.
I feel like Miraak could've made better points, props for them both being respectful! I look forward to either form of enslavement that these candidates choose.
I'll always love Morrowind for introducing me to such a rich and epic franchise, but Skyrim always captures my attention for the sheer amount of fun I can have across the board without getting frustrated at what the instructions on what to do next are.
I agree with both, something about Morrowind’s world has a sort of grand intoxication to it that blew me away when I first got into it, but the breadth of Skyrim’s combat system and its ability to let the devs design pretty unique encounters and puzzles in the various barrows. You don’t know how many waves of draugr are gonna be thrown at you, how many regen phases the chamber boss is gonna have, where they’re gonna come from next, so it keeps you on your toes at all difficulty levels
Dagoth Ur Debating Mankar Cameron: czcams.com/video/A2IhEWJd6Rc/video.html
Lol there is NO WAY Mankar Camoran can win if Miraak lost.
Rigged
Dagoth Ur debates Darth Malek from. Star Wars, Knights of the Old Republic.
Wait... where were the personal attacks and insults? It's not a modern political debate without Dagoth insulting Miraak's intelligence or Miraak commenting on Dagoth's hygiene.
The tribunal temple has forced to me to censor this debate post broadcast. They took my ordinator armor and threatened to come back with severe force if I do not obey.
Sounds just like the tribunal temple smh
You forgot the political candidates constantly trying to talk over each other like kids at the playground. But then again these characters have way more class than almost any modern day politician
Well you can't insult Dagoth's perfect morning routine. It's impressive and very nice. Let's see Paul Vivec's morning routine.
@@Billy-RPG did you tell them is this how you honor the sixth house and th tribe unmourned?
the agent from daggerfall couldn't make it to the debate, he died to a skeleton in the starting dungeon.
Weird place to ask this but how is a barbarian supposed to defeat these flying imps? They have ghost rules and the starting dungeon doesnt have silver weapons just lying around and magic isnt an option. I kept running and closing doors in their faces to shake them off
@@gewuerzwanze5627 You can actually get better starter weapons through the backstory generator, but if you're committed to your current run just speed running the dungeon to the exit and coming back later is always viable
@@intergalacticimperialist9670 thanks. It sucks having to build a specific backstory just to be able to take down enemies in the first ever dungeon. Or take magic. God i hate todd
@@gewuerzwanze5627 You only really need steel or better to kill them, I'm pretty new to Daggerfall but I've done the opening dungeon 4 times now and never not spawned with or quickly found an item that can kill them. The game has a big learning curve that I have not even come close to surmounting, but the imps really aren't all that bad, you can even take a language that pacifies them in character creation
@@intergalacticimperialist9670 i had no idea. Thank you for sharing that
Miraak sounds like a Skyrim fan who is just happy to talk about his favorite game, surprisingly wholesome actually
And dagoth is just the typical morrowind fanboy annoyingly blabbing about there favorite game
@@hammerite6418 their* not surprised a Skyrim fan doesn’t know the difference but it’s “their” my boy
@chdh6556 tf you talking about this is a CZcams comment section. Who cares if they used the wrong form of their
No amount of Skyrim bandits can compare to the absolutely infuriating amount of Cliffracers and Slaughterfish that overran Morrowind's ecosystem!
And I raise you with trolls or the dang dragons that would pop out of nowhere and ruin it whatever you were doing.
Praise St. Jiub
Truly a cursed land.
@@serronserron1320 I never had problems with trolls and dragons personally unless modded. They're way less common than Vvardenfell's predators.
Finding your first kwama forger: discovers that the rusty iron dagger is terrible, and that kwama have paralysis poison.
You forgot the most important thing. People can finally use chairs and beds in Skyrim. Imagine standing around all day, never sitting down, never going to bed.
Oblivion did that too and is actually better than skyrim imo if comparing vanilla/lightly modded experience. Oblivion is still worth playing and people sleep on it.
You can use beds in Morrowind just not chairs. The Chad Nerevarine doesn't need to sit while awake.
You think thats bad? In Arena you purchase a room with a “bed” which is just a table with a colored top. You stand on it and then camp. It’s basically just roleplaying that you’re sleeping. No bonuses apart from not getting jumped in your sleep.
@Yobama I too am shocked that a mid 90s crpg, that came out one year after the original Doom, is indeed limited in technology
@@timetraveler5547 frfr thats what im sayin
Great debate, can’t wait to see either of these two debate with Mankor Camoran
Consider it done.
@@Billy-RPG thank you kind sir
The Dragonborn and the Nerevarine should have been there to debate, but the Dragonborn was launched into the stratosphere by a giant on the way and the Neravarine got all his strength sapped by a bonewalker and can't move.
Miraak is the first Dragonborn, so he was technically there.
Morrowind's guilds were far superior. First off, there were more of them, including more niche groups like vampire clans and religions. All of them had fully developed quest lines. There were hard requirements where joining one group would exclude you from others for that playthrough and soft ones where making it to the top of one guild required killing members of other guilds. They actually had rewards for ranking up as well as hard skill checks.
Yeah, I miss guild ranks
Okay to be fair as someone who completed the mages guild questline, like 90% of the quests in it are fetch quests (granted you're sometimes fetching unique items). Meanwhile the skyrim mages guild questline has a story (even if it's pretty rushed).
@@pezzottaitemeh8616 you solve the mystery of the dwarves in the mages guild
Isn't that story enough
They also had stat requirements. So you couldnt be some retarded barbarian and join the mages guild and just unga bunga smash everything to become grand master
Lol every vampire clan offers fetch quests what are you talking about
I always love how in all of these AI voice skits, dagoth Is always like a total nereverine fanboy
Because he is.
This is what happens when you send Miraak to do Alduin's work.
Considering Alduin is barely even a character, I'll gladly take Miraak instead
Alduin ate ALL 3 courier's that we sent to contact him about this debate.
@@nagger8216 How many times does Dagoth Ur actually appear in game?
@@Billy-RPG Didn't even try to read. Typical for a dragon.
@@Nonamearisto Only once physically, but still much more than Alduin. Also had multiple cultists and books elaborating on his goals.
He was basically written like Sauron. Background villain with surprising depth and complexity.
Honestly they both have good points. All i can say though, I have skyrim to thank for getting me into the elder scrolls franchise in the first place.
The funny mods it brought
Same with me. I like em both but Skyrim is so much more playable to me. I can be Mr. Roleplay OR Mr. Hack and Slash. Skyrim gives me the choice. Still that Morrowind is pretty fire. Plus I play with so many mods it's like Skyrim in a parallel universe.
Woah that's so interesting, I started with Oblivion/Morrowind, so it must've been a surprise to go back to previous games and see them being so much more rpg influenced.
Same, but it was oblivion for me, i guess it just depends on your age :D
The miraak AI doesnt sound as close to the real voice as dagoths does
"The Dragonborn's story is thrilling with plenty of twists and turns along the way." Ahh yes, the thrill and the twists and turns of a 100 mile long stretch of country highway.
The only complaint is there were no jabs at Morrowind, for it had some serious flaws as well.
The combat was simple and not engaging. Some would say it was a chore. Not to mention controls can be a bit janky.
World does not seem to change with the player compared to Oblivion and Skyrim and could lead to some interesting plot holes if done in a different order.
RPG elements were there, but some were not properly exploited. You could still, potentially, do everything and other components can be ignored for the sake of the story. Like why is your argonian character not constantly harassed or arrested on trump-up charges to be turned into a slave? Especially since the Trinity would want to get rid of your character in the end.
Most dialogues were copied and pasted to make it seem there was more than offered. Worst yet, most of this dialogue was not voiced.
There are flaws in every video game. Skyrim has more than Morrowind but a politician's job is to deflect at a point at other's flaws to drag everyone to their level.
Let's not forget that they also have that cool flying prison over Vivec that everyone will notice upon entering the city and it's only used for ONE quest. Imagine putting an epic-looking floating structure in your open-world RPG and not finding tons of cool shit to do with it. Also I agree with all the flaws you brought up. Morrowind fans tend to overlook the shitty combat because the RPG elements are good, but literally no other action game plays Morrowind (and not in a good way) and its combat is as stiff as hell as a result. As for the Argonian thing though, I can see why your player doesn't get arrested or enslaved for being an Argonian: It'd be tough for new players starting out. Imagine picking this cool looking lizard guy as a new player, going into the first town, and then getting arrested on the spot after just leaving the boat.
@@JamesThompson-up8tn I Agree with the Argonian from a gameplay perspective. However, my point from an RPG perspective is a bit weird that for a game that emphasizes RPG, it does not lock you out from certain areas or factions as far as I am aware. I mean an example done right is Divinity Orginal Sin 2. And if they could not have done it, maybe not have left it as a choice for the player.
I am just pointing out that they were more willing to break for gameplay mechanics beyond Skyrim. Skyrim had racism, but it did not prevent the player from entering due to being the Dragon Born.
You’ve never played the game if you don’t notice the world change
@@chdh6556 I said to the same level. And it doesn't, not really.
@@raw6668 what actually changes in Skyrim? A town goes from imperial to storm cloak? The cities don’t change one bit the entire game, the only change is how they interact with you?? To what level are you speaking because morris wind absolutely changes much more than whiterun. Even after you defeat alduin his crony dragons still walk around lmfaoo
They didn't even let poor Mankar Cameron in the door.
Skyrim also brought tons of people into the series including me. Along with fallout 4 for fallout respectively. Now that I’ve beat both of them and have played the older games I can say I like the stories and options a lot more in the older games tes5 is just a little to streamlined
Fallout 3*
@@TheScienceguy77 Both
It’s streamlined, yes. But the new games are just better. While the stories of Morrowind and New Vegas, for example, may be great. Morrowind is dated, and New Vegas is just meh on most other aspects.
Unsurprisingly both considered to be the worst of the mainline series, they went too damn casual, creating half assed action games instead of rpg’s
Where’s the Sheogorath ai for oblivion
Hands down, one of the best RPG games ever made. I'm glad I was a kid with a lot of free time when this game came out.🔥🔥🔥
Both are masterpieces.
I was today years old when I realized that Miraak is also Paladin Danse.
I had an idea. A little stupid, but I like it.
What if Dagoth Ur was friends with Sheogorath? They're both mad gods.
I can picture them getting into shenanigans, trolling the shit out of azura
Dagoth Ur is a false god, and Sheogorath is the daedric prince of madness... neither one of them are counted as gods. Daedric princes aren't gods, more like demons.
@@gwouru Good point
@@gwouru There are a couple of exceptions though. Trinimic didn't ask to become Malacath in one of worst ways possible and Azura does help mortals for the greater good.(Just don't make her angry like one Dwarf and Dark Elves found out the hard way.) And there's nothing stopping any of them from choosing to not be total manipulate scumbags.
@@chadharger9323 Not all demons are princes of change and destruction either, but they are all demons. You know the difference between the Aedra and the daedra? The daedra said nah, I'm good, and didn't contribute a damn thing to the making of the world, so, have no real connection to it, and are thus, not gods of Tamriel. That's it. So, they're all demons, just because some are less evil, doesn't change that fact.
If you include the expansions then the Nerevarine killed at least 2 potentially 3 gods and probably trapped at least one of their souls.
Also could actually fly.
They were never true gods. The tribunal were nothing but lying imposters who stole some divine power and told everyone they had achieved godhood through their own virtue, whereas in reality, they just used Kagranac's tools on the Heart of Lorkhan.
@@Nonamearisto This, it's hilarious seeing how many fans fell for their propaganda, like thinking Vivec actually achieved CHIM. Like no lol He was just a powerful mage that was leaching off the Heart of Lorkhan
@@nagger8216 Almalexia and Vivec were basically just extra powerful mages with a weapon and very little clothes on. Sotha Sil at least had his status as a cyborg going for him. They were elves with stolen powers, not gods.
@@Nonamearisto Someone finally said it. They're FALSE gods, Lowercase g. The whole point of them is to show how far Dunmer society had fallen since the time of Nerevar and the Chimer.
@@the.orthodox.photographer2272 It's not quite that straightforward. At first, the Tribunal were possibly the best things that ever happened to the Chimer/Dunmer. They performed miracles on a regular basis. They obviated the need to worship Daedric princes, as the Daedra- even Azura- don't really care about mortals. They even defeated Mehrunes Dagon at least once and saved Morrowind on at least one occasion.
The decline under the Tribunal began because Dagoth Ur cut them off from the heart. Because he did that, they were too weak to stop the Cyrodilic Empire under the Septims from invading. It was also at that time, because his power was limited, Sotha Sil withdrew completely into his Clockwork City and Almalexia started getting paranoid and egotistical, her ego being driven by fear of losing her power. Furthermore, Vivec had to devote most of his remaining power to both supporting the Ghostfence (itself supported by souls sacrificed to it) and to keep up Baar Dau. If there was a decline under the Tribunal, Dagoth Ur is largely to blame for it.
Would have been great to have Sheo represent Oblivion here, unfortunately he was prohibited from any more debates after the Cheese incident
The problem with skyrims role-playing through joining guilds is that you can join ANY guild no matter your playstyle.
On the one hand, I like that you can join the Companions as a Mage. If there was an Elven Harbinger, why not a Caster? But I also don't like that the only obstacle to that is Vilkas making you hit him with physical attacks and then no-one cares.
There is not baked in roleplaying for Skyrim though. It takes mods to correct that. Skyrim is pretty much Elder Scrolls New Vegas. Half finished, but can be perfected with mods.
@@TheMetalAllfather Except in New Vegas it was structurally integrated with the game mechanics. You literally couldn't team up with certain characters unless you had the lowest Intelligence for example. In skyrim if you play as a rogue it will have no actual impact on the story at all, and once you max it out your 'rogue' will become whatever you feel like doing after a while.
@@doxscund8821 This exactly, but my main point was that Skyrim, much like New Vegas, is the perfect example of Bethesda saying "Fuck it, let the modders finish the game for us."
@@TheMetalAllfather Bethesda didn't make New Vegas, Obsidian did. Bethesda/Zenimax however did force an incredibly strict development timeline on them though of 18 months.
the crossover we've always wanted, but can never have.
would've been hilarious to actually witness this happen.
unless the devs wanna go the warriors route and create a crossover mob hack'n-slash where all of ESO clashes in an epic battle across Tamriel and Nirn.
I want this now.
Skyrim's plot has depth if you look for it. Hell, the Stormcloaks and the civil war was practically a social experiment demonstrating how easy it is for players to get swept up in nationalistic fervor and end up supporting actual Nazis.
You start off thinking Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are heros, with your daring escape, asshole imerials trying to execute you and Ralof seeming like a genuinely decent guy. Then you get to WIndhelm - you see the elf-ghettos, mini pogroms and Ulfric straight out starts paraphrasing Mein Kampf... You have a moment of empathy with the average German/Italian/Spanish citizen who ended up supporting fascism. I thought it was brilliantly written.
Yeah as a kid I may have fallen for the stormcloak propaganda
I loved playing them both!
Actually it's kinda debatable whether or not the main character in Morrowind was really the reincarnation of Nerevar or if he's just some guy that managed to fulfill all the requirements of the prophecy. Which adds more points towards Morrowind if anything, since in Skyrim you're indisputably the Dragonborn with no nuance or room for debate whatsoever. And don't worry I'll do it for you. 🤓
That is an interesting point, but you could say the same about every prophecy, "Someone came around who made a good enough effort to smooth out the kinks that didn't make it into the re-print and he did fix the problem".
But yeah, in Skyrim there is not even a question about it.
@@gendor5199 I suppose, but the difference is that the Nerevarine prophecy calls specifically for the reincarnation of Nerevar to fulfill it, and it's possible the main character isn't a reincarnation at all and just some schmuck who got lucky
@@nagger8216 Absolutely, I just wanted to add the thought that prophecies are basically "We really, really hope this is going to happen" mixed with hindsight, "See? we told you all along!"
Poor Dagoth Ur, got smacked by some schmuck who got thrown out of prison.
@@nagger8216 the prophecy also defines the reincarnation of Nerevar as the person who succeeds in fulfilling the prophecy. Whoever did it *is* the Nerevarine, whether they think so or not, because doing is being, in the Elder Scrolls.
Considering one of the criteria for becoming the Nerevarine is wearing Moon-and-Star - which mind you is blessed by Azura herself - without instantly dying, that really doesn't leave much room for error.
These voices.... So soothing
If we could have the story telling and roleplay quality of Morrowind with the gameplay of Skyrim think of how amazing the game could be. We can only hope and pray ES6 lives up to the hype. Can't wait to mod wolfgirls into yet another game.
Sounds a lot like the upcoming Skywind mod. It's funny that i'm more exited for some morrowind mods than tes 6 by now.
It’ll never happen, Skyrim was the death of any thought of returning to rpg’s it’s all babyfied action now
I like how every one of mirak takes is very bad. Dagoth probably just payed him so his mediocre takes sounds better. Politics.
Nice try, ash vampire.
this is the best video on the platfrom
Glad to see old Voryn speaking from the correct Great House. Mirak, on the other hand, had to set up his podium in the cafeteria at the house of that philandering bum, that imperial sellout. Sad.
So used to people going for personal attacks both on and offline that I forgot what a Civil debate looked like
I mean Dagoth Ur has some stuff in Skyrim, especially from the creation club content that's technically DLC for the game to add more to a game that has lots to do like Morrowind (never played Morrowind but have seen some gameplay and also the plot behind it)
definitely missing out if you haven't played it yet
It be interesting to see a debate between Miraak and Mankar Camoran between Oblivion and Skyrim
Sounds good to me.
This really shows what's wrong with America
Yeah way too many false want to be gods
There's no more room for discourse, both sides are just far to divided...
Can anyone tell me the name of the program used to generate these voices?
It's in the description dude
@@LordVader1094 can you tell me the name?
It's Elevenlabs.io
I expect a meme and in the end I get a great debate, great video! Being a skybaby Miraak got me talking but the conservative side of the Dargoth Ur did not go unnoticed, in the end each one will have their own opinions and may not be able to convince each other.
But I love both games so in a skyrim vs morrowind vs oblivion vs darggefall debate I just say...yes
I keep waiting for Miraak to mention the Skyrim Civil War when Dagoth Ur mentioned politics. The war helps determine the fate of the Empire when it comes to fighting a future war with the Third Aldmeri Dominion (which will be if humans and other races be demoted to second-class citizens by Elves in the worst-case scenario if the Empire loses, I'd say enslaved but the Aldmeri Dominion abolished slavery)
More like humans will gradually be exterminated if the more zealous of the Dominion had their way. As much as I like Morrowind and the hierarchy of the Dunmer, Skyrim has actually more sophisticated politics.
Outcome of the civil war makes no difference. An independant Skyrim would be more than happy to temporarily ally themselves with the empire if it means killing elves.
@@RoastedToastedPoops fellow scout.
In all seriousness, even if it makes little difference (tbh. I doubt it will since bethesda gotta make a sequel), theres still a lot at stake since I think it determines whether or not the Empire will last a few more years
Skyrim's politics should not be as disregarded as in the video
@@serronserron1320 absolutely not, the politics of Skyrim are literally only, imperial or storm cloak lmfaooo, there are four houses with differing politics, along with the ash landers who disagree with all of the houses and make up a large part of the political landscape of the game. If you haven’t played or payed attention that’s ok but that’s just not true lmfaoo
They are both amazing games!
man the sad thing is that Skyrim had TONS of cut cotent, every faction and storyline was supost to be way bigger and more complex, i hope they go all out in TES6 or idk in a future Skyrim version (dw guys, there will be some) they add that cut content
Now that's some candidates I can vote the next elections!
Even the ChatGPT AI can't think of a good polemic against Morrowind.
Functioning chairs
@@serronserron1320 Completely game ruining, I agree.
This has the same energy as that never ending conversation between Werner Herzog and Slavoj Zizek
Can we get another debate featuring Mankar Camoran giving the Oblivion take?
Next up: Dagoth Ur vs Mankar Camoran.
@Billy-RPG sick, have a three-way debate to finally settle which game is superior 😤
Camaron the mythic dawn leader should have been part of this batting for Oblivion
Mankar Cameran: What about me?
I really want to see Benny vs Autumn.
Needs to be longer
Weird CZcams recommended but good video 👍
While the Oblivion representative is eating crayons in the corner. :D
Still very impressed by how well Dagoth Ur's voice comes out. He sounds like a legit voice-actor, while Miraak sounds a bit flat.
I like to think that the only member of the audience is Martin Septim. Him alone just sitting there and saying nothing because his game is the most overshadowed.
Really interesting how Miraak talks about exciting and epic adventure in a monotone voice, truly encapsulates the soullessness of Skyrim.
Also he himself is a part of DLC made exclusively for morrowind nostalgia pandering.
Safe to say this debate was lost even before starting.
Why can't people just agree both games are good?
Now I've never played Morrowind myself, but I have played Skyrim a whole lot. I feel Skyrim is the "every man's" rpg. I would come home from school and pop it in and just travel. I did a few quests to get the weapons and armor I wanted, but I just explored. That was fun to me I didn't need the grand adventure, most of the time I'd stumble onto it like a drunkard. Dawnbreaker was and still is my weapon of choice in my first playthrough. It was especially handy for the dawnguard when I fought hoards of undead. Dragons just flying overhead was really cool especially if it wasn't to fight. It was like seeing an airplane as a little kid. Yeah it's age might be showing now, but Skyrim has earned it's place as a classic.
Barely any RPG elements in it tho. It would be better to classify it as a first-person action advanture.
@@marinribaric9749 that's a fair point I'll give you that. It definitely fits into the sandbox style of rpg games, but sometimes that's a strength.
Sandbox action adventure...
Would you call the Borderlands games RPGs?
@@marinribaric9749 technically most games are RPGs since a role-playing game is a game in which you take the role of a character. So in a way yes I would call Borderlands an fps rpg, similar to Skyrim being a first-person rpg. However what I meant by "sandbox" is that I can play the game as I want. I'm not hindered by game progression (save for the first dragon slaying). I could join most/ all guilds at level 1. I could defeat harkon and miraak as well as the civil war before alduin. The main quest isn't the main focus of the game. The adventure is. A game like borderlands is arguably similar considering the openness and side quests available that the player can do before advancing the story.
We need Oblivion graphicked Mehrunes Dagon to take the podium next.
"Thats nothing compared to Morrowind, thanks!"
-Falanu Flaalu seeing Skyrim
How are the voice's...SO GOOD! XDD is tahat Ai???
Miraak's voice is quite soothing actually.
You're both winners in my book.
Agreed. Both games are good in their own right.
It's just me that wants a Morrowind and Oblivion Remasters? It would be amazing to see those maps in modern day graphics.
I got marrowind when it came out.
Too young to truly understand what was going on and now too old and experienced in games to find it fun.
But the time i did have with it was great.
Oblivion was my true foray into the elder scrolls.
Great game if.....special and i spent the most time on it, skyrim lacked in fantasy but had some epic tales, but over all was more grounded in quests and repetitive in some area's.
Here's hoping es6 will introduce more role-playing elements
Somebody else who says "ne-REV-a-reen!" And it's Papa Dagoth himself!
Its like the presidential elections debate
*looks away in Oblivion being the in-between*
“Make key decisions that affect the fate of entire towns and cities”
Brother must’ve played a different Skyrim haha
No fr lmfaoo
I think I prefer Skyrim with the ability to swing a weapon and actually have it hit something and not pass harmlessly through an enemy because invisible dice decided something without telling me.
Meanwhile in Oblivion: “Have you heard of the high elves?”
"HACC, BRUUL, BROUH!"
This is what happens in the 6th house and the tribe unmourned, debates over video games.
True extension of Thu'um available in Skyrim manifests as mods, Thu'um is capable of shaping world, just like mods, thanks to Thu'um you can create dangers, stories, landscapes and people, that collectively deliver unique experiences unavailable to Morrowind, all it takes to master Thu'um branch called modding is time, effort and dedication, with proper understanding of this tool Skyrim reality faces limitless possibilities
Skyrim and Morrowind seem like two halves of a truly great game. The gameplay of Slyrim is more real, visceral, enjoyable. It’s not dice rolls, it’s all on the player. And while the environment of Morrowind has its charm, Skyrim’s ice age splendor dominated by the great Barrows is as great. Especially when you add the diversity of environments, from tundra, to glacier, to forest, to bog, to mountains, and even the alien Black Reach. But Skyrim could do with Morrowind role playing and lore depth in its turn. Hope Bethesda learns from both games.
Interesting take.
Skyrim is a superior game on the basis of combat, size, and player choice alone (not having to keep swinging at the same scrib 50 times to get a hit is nice too), but Morrowind has a superior setting, one utterly unique among roleplaying games. The five (or six) houses, the tribunal, the morag tong, the deep lore involving the Chimer, the daedric princes who led the Chimer to what was then called Resdayn, their interactions with the Dwemer, and the transformation of the Chimer into the Dunmer are all unique. Skyrim has some interesting lore here and there; the coming of the Atmorans to Skyrim, the sad fate of the Falmer, and yes, the civil war (which could have been better developed), but it's not really all that special, just a sort of fantasy Scandinavia.
@@Nonamearisto Skyrim isn't simply fantasy Scandinavia. The Ice Age animals and glacie give it a sense like it's a primeval place, frozen in the past. And the Barrows, like Bleak Falls Barrow, or Forelhost, or even Shriekwind Bastion brooding over the mountains, glowering down at the descendants of their builders kinda shows how mighty Skyrim was, and the Draugr lurking within reveal what the cost of that might was.
@@levongevorgyan6789 It's mostly Scandinavian, though. Some Celtic stuff in the Reach too.
Wow you don't understand RPG game design at all, morrowind feels better to play than skyrim
Hold one, when did skyrim ever have a morality system? U could do whatever u wanted with next to zero consequences
the Funny thing is two legends talking to each other from two fucking awesome games *realize it's the same game just in different time lines* holly shit welp still just Skyrim and the other ones off Skyrim based thing is awesome in it's own right as a game
“Always living in the past”. My dude Skyrim is 11 years old.
"There was no room for Moral Ambiguity." In Morrowind. MORROWIND.
Nice ! You could have ended this debate with a "STOP! You violated the law!".
I can't believe I'm saying this, Miraak has my vote
Finally politicians I can get behind
Dagoth Ur 2024
The end argument got me good. Skyrim's Popularity is due to them piecemealing out to the population over years across multiple Consoles. Lets not poke fun at Miraak for not even making it into the base game, Of course Skyrim has taken the core ideas of morrowind and build something that even the "Lazy" casual can get behind, the game dos not just dump you into the world and say good luck, it grabs your hand and lightly pulls u in a direction for the whole experience, You are the dragonborn and THIS is the path you should walk on. it was a Rollcoster Not a safari
I... can hear Chewbacca in the background
0:50
FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!
This video, ironically, writes Miraak as more articulate and understanding than the canon thing. In the game, he's a completely egotistical maniac.
Skyrim is a harsh province but Morrowind is definitely harsher
It amazes me that anyone can live there and not die
Dunmer must be built different
@@corvus196 only logical explanation
Morrowind is also great at choosing various factions to determine the fate of Vvardenfell. Also, Skyrim’s choices boil down to: decent person, or absolute asshole
skyrim was the definition of large as an ocean and shallow as a pond the only thing that skyrim had going for it other than any of the other elder scrolls is the magic casting system, like the look and feel of it and that's it, i prefer morrowinds melee combat over skyrims
Dagoth Ur contradicting himself saying the Dragonborns journey was weaker because of the prophecy but counting the Nerevarine prophecy as a strength of Morrowind.
Morrowind is more fun to me on a conceptual level, the sheer freedom Enchanting and Spellcraft give is rife for delicious exploitation, and the power of Alchemy is extremely well documented.
I also enjoy the political interplay between Factions, and the factions themselves in Morrowind. While they don't have major stories like in skyrim, stuff like the Fighters Guild being in the Comonna Tong's pocket and getting tasked to slaughter the thrives guild for messing up their racket, or House Telvanni's attempts to control the Mage's guild makes the world feel so much more alive. While the work itself is more mundane, it makes earning your place at the top feel a lot more... well... earned, compared to completing the faction quest lines in Skyrim where you can become Harbinger of the Companions while having barely swung a weapon, or the Archmage of Winterhold when you only know your starting flames spell and the ward Tolfdir teaches you.
In conclusion I think Morrowind is a much better game. Just don't ask me to actually play it.
Seeing some of the comments: You should only judge the games based on things unrelated to the technology that was available. Graphics and physics from 2002 as compared to 2011 are as far apart as Skyrim with mods in 2013 and the "new" Skyrim on the new Unreal Engine. Same goes for certain mechanics like horseriding or sitting down.
The Main storylines of both games were superb. Morrowind took a lot longer because of a number of reasons, like you needed to walk everywhere and most of the places were almost unreachable. The lack of scaling also made sure that you couldn't simply reach the last boss before you were strong enough to move past the numerous Deadroth lurking along the Red Gate. All the powers you gained were really needed. Skyrim can technically be cleared without learning any of the Word Walls beyond the plot related ones. And the ability to fast-travel allowed a quick playthrough. Which Morrwind simply wasn't.
The Side plots were more extensive, more intertwined. You could only become Guilmaster of the Thieves and the Fighters if you did the right quests. If not, you were excluded from one or the other. The Mages forced you to learn and improve and undertake complicated quests. Political factions pulled you into deep plots with assasinations and framejobs.
Skills maybe didn't offer any special abilities like in Skyrim, which is a huge plus for Skyrim (but might be due to technological limitations), but in general really paid off to master in Morrowind. You could actually see yourself improving in Morrowind with magic or melee combat. I remember one Master Trainer for one of the most difficult skills to level was a hostile NPC, but if you had your Calm Humanoid spell of a high enough rank, and your Illusion skill was high enough, you could make him friendly for long enough to get some blessed training.
I could go on about ow much I love Morrowind over Skyrim, even though I also love Skyrim a great deal, but I think the above three-ish points are enough reason to show why one is better han the other for the right reasons instead of saying the graphics are better, and the genre is more developped and has more interest now than it had 20 years ago.
Can’t we have both?
here i'll settle this right fast
Skyrim: I have 277 mods on that game to make it even playable. At least 130 of them are just adding stuff back into the game that was removed for ???? reasons.
marrowind: i legit got 7 mods on this and they just fix the mana, makes game play more smooth and add some armor and clothing and stuff.
Skyrim: I can go through that whole game naked with an iron sword and win at everything, never needing to learn magic beyond heal and flame.
Marrowind: this random npc with a farm tool caved in my skull even though I have high level gear on but not so much the skull to use it right. Have to dive into every little detail and bask in the madness of the world or be consumed by it.
Skyrim: end game is the same as start of game, I swing an axe and it kills stuff but now rather than having to swing it like 5 times sometimes I enchanted it to have 50997 damage out of boredom and just kill things with 1 swing.
Marrowind: After hours of game play and thinking and keeping to the plan you can know make a potion that allows you to jump off the planet and crash the game, Spell craft silly and insane things and enjoy new crazy levels of death by yeet.
And lastly the most clear thing out of all of them
Marrowind: crazy spells and skills that allow you to mix and match and do many crazy things and have new and fun builds with rewards and punishments for any path you choose to take ensuring you replay many times
Skyrim: heavy armor sneak archer death mage. it is what you will become no matter what you do.
Two doting husbands saying "My spouse can beat up your spouse!"
Concordo plenamente com as opiniões do Dagoth Ur :)
The correct answer in this instance is Skywind!
Me a life long Elder scrolls 4 Fan I don't know charging street into oblivion Itself was cool
I feel like Miraak could've made better points, props for them both being respectful! I look forward to either form of enslavement that these candidates choose.
I'll always love Morrowind for introducing me to such a rich and epic franchise, but Skyrim always captures my attention for the sheer amount of fun I can have across the board without getting frustrated at what the instructions on what to do next are.
Well, weapons don't hurt or even touch ennemies in morrowind. This feature is not for a video game but a rpg paper like dungeon and dragons.
I agree with both, something about Morrowind’s world has a sort of grand intoxication to it that blew me away when I first got into it, but the breadth of Skyrim’s combat system and its ability to let the devs design pretty unique encounters and puzzles in the various barrows. You don’t know how many waves of draugr are gonna be thrown at you, how many regen phases the chamber boss is gonna have, where they’re gonna come from next, so it keeps you on your toes at all difficulty levels
Truth
I miss classes.